Why aren’t you applauding the introduction of leaderboards?
Because they’re meaningless if the limit is level 50.
Really? Last time I checked you were the one who lost hundreds of hours and is now whining about it on a video game forum.
Yep, I lost hundreds of hours. But I still did it, and you didn’t. And I’m making a request to ArenaNet, whereas you’re wasting your life trying to make people who have achieved something in-game feel small. :-)
I do have to applaud you on making the request not sound like a child whining for a new toy. Hopefully there will be an official statement on either why or why not give a compensation.
To be fair:
I aimed for the top and got there. I won. Sorry if successful people upset you bro.
Why aren’t you applauding the introduction of leaderboards?
Because they’re meaningless if the limit is level 50.
Really? Last time I checked you were the one who lost hundreds of hours and is now whining about it on a video game forum.
Yep, I lost hundreds of hours. But I still did it, and you didn’t. And I’m making a request to ArenaNet, whereas you’re wasting your life trying to make people who have achieved something in-game feel small. :-)
On the contrary. I’m actually making a similar request to Anet by posting here: Don’t ruin the game by catering to people upset about wasted time.
People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.
And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.
First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.
Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.
And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.
they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true
It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.
You are missing the point that the majority of the nowadays MMO players simply don’t understand. There are other people, to whom grinding/farming is not the point: what they care about is simply what the demanding and difficult things that the game has to offer. And ANet made it clear: you could go past the 50 level to actually find something like that. People couldn’t care less about some hypothetical future awards. So no, no one took risk and that we have to accept. What you and the rest of the laymen have to accept is the fact that, just like with the WvW ranks, or achievement points, there are ambitious people who aim higher than the majority. And if they did something that hasn’t been excluded from the game by the devs until now, they didn’t “exploit” anything. What they did is they sought for the only available challenge in this game: high level fractals.
That is something that deserves rewarding, especially if the laymasses are to get the equal footing with the hardworkers now. Fairness requires rewards. As simple as that.As someone who is at 60+, I can tell you that the only “difficult” part of leveling past 50 was getting the right group who knew how and when to get past jade maw’s agony.
Ironic use of “fairness” by the way, considering Anet had to patch to remove the method used to get past 50.
And you could find those people amongst me and you, and those who cared, and not the laymen. That’s the difference: the attitude.
So if it was actually all about the “difficulty” and the “challenge” as you so emotionally put it, why are you now begging and pleading for a reward?
Maybe because what I cared so much about, as you ironically put it, is now turned into oblivion?
Did you overcome the challenge or not?
(edited by Moderator)
People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.
And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.
First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.
Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.
And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.
they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true
It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.
You are missing the point that the majority of the nowadays MMO players simply don’t understand. There are other people, to whom grinding/farming is not the point: what they care about is simply what the demanding and difficult things that the game has to offer. And ANet made it clear: you could go past the 50 level to actually find something like that. People couldn’t care less about some hypothetical future awards. So no, no one took risk and that we have to accept. What you and the rest of the laymen have to accept is the fact that, just like with the WvW ranks, or achievement points, there are ambitious people who aim higher than the majority. And if they did something that hasn’t been excluded from the game by the devs until now, they didn’t “exploit” anything. What they did is they sought for the only available challenge in this game: high level fractals.
That is something that deserves rewarding, especially if the laymasses are to get the equal footing with the hardworkers now. Fairness requires rewards. As simple as that.As someone who is at 60+, I can tell you that the only “difficult” part of leveling past 50 was getting the right group who knew how and when to get past jade maw’s agony.
Ironic use of “fairness” by the way, considering Anet had to patch to remove the method used to get past 50.
And you could find those people amongst me and you, and those who cared, and not the laymen. That’s the difference: the attitude.
So if it was actually all about the “difficulty” and the “challenge” as you so emotionally put it, why are you now begging and pleading for a reward?
(edited by Kilandros.2098)
People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.
And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.
First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.
Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.
And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.
they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true
It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.
You are missing the point that the majority of the nowadays MMO players simply don’t understand. There are other people, to whom grinding/farming is not the point: what they care about is simply what the demanding and difficult things that the game has to offer. And ANet made it clear: you could go past the 50 level to actually find something like that. People couldn’t care less about some hypothetical future awards. So no, no one took risk and that we have to accept. What you and the rest of the laymen have to accept is the fact that, just like with the WvW ranks, or achievement points, there are ambitious people who aim higher than the majority. And if they did something that hasn’t been excluded from the game by the devs until now, they didn’t “exploit” anything. What they did is they sought for the only available challenge in this game: high level fractals.
That is something that deserves rewarding, especially if the laymasses are to get the equal footing with the hardworkers now. Fairness requires rewards. As simple as that.
As someone who is at 60+, I can tell you that the only “difficult” part of leveling past 50 was getting the right group who knew how and when to get past jade maw’s agony.
Ironic use of “fairness” by the way, considering Anet had to patch to remove the method used to get past 50.
for me it was the effort I could have gotten 2-3 legendaries for.
Ah yes, I love the classic, “IF ONLY IT WASN’T FOR THIS ONE THING, I WOULD HAVE BEEN OTHERWISE WILDLY SUCCESSFUL AND HAD THE WHOLE WORLD!” argument.
If you think people push to fractal level 80 because they want some kind of future advantage, then you obviously don’t understand the mindset of competitive players.
Why aren’t you applauding the introduction of leaderboards?
(edited by Moderator)
People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.
And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.
First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.
Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.
And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.
they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true
It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.
I’ll just say this: no way am I re-leveling 4 characters to 48 again.
#ggnothxkbyenomoregemsfromme
And now with account-wide Fractals you won’t have to!
People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.
And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.
First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.
Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.
And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.
They are not punishing anyone.
And I would personally believe that the hardcore players would WELCOME the new changes, since they are quite clearly adding HARDCORE elements to lvl 31+, and based on the blog post it seems to be new different elements for ALL of the levels, so progressing through them does make sense, since one can assume that the elements will get harder and harder.Yes they are. They are punishing us in multiple ways:
- All the effort we spent getting to higher levels wasted, without a compensation (or at least it seems that way). For **** sake, they reimbursed people who bought multiple gathering tools when they made them account bound, which was entirely their fault as well.
- Making it an even bigger casual fest: Fractal weapons at lvl10? Screw that. Fractal weapons were the only skins in the game that actually had some sort of skill cap to them, even with the horrendous RNG. If anything, they should limit Fractal weapons to lvl30+ or even 40+. It should be harder to get them, not easier.
- The account bound thing is kind of both ways. It’s a punishment in the sense that I basically wasted all my time leveling up my alts, but it’s good in the sense that after the update, it’s going to be account bound. I wonder if they’re making the dailies account bound though, because that would suck pretty hard and make the game even more alt-unfriendly.
- They’ve basically ignored everything we’ve been saying for almost a year about Fractals, only to say ’don’t worry guys, we’ll revamp them soon’, having us all anticipated about this upcoming change, only to find out it’s going to screw us over worse than when they would have just left it alone.
- They had 1 chance to show some love to their dedicated PvE community. What they basically did with this update is saying yeah, no, we don’t give a toss about you guys, go die in a fire and leave our game alone, we don’t want you here.
You’re overreacting to a lot of what’s happened, but you’re right that they should have given us a heads up a lot earlier that 1) Fractals were becoming account wide, 2) Fractals are being reset to 30, and 3) Fractal rewards are changing drastically.
That being said, a lot of players (like me, for example) stopped running Fractals months ago once we had finally had enough of the cost/benefit imbalance resulting in a lot of time and effort for very little payoff. These are overall good changes that will result in more players returning to a stagnant Fractal player base.
One point that you really need to stop championing is the lost 50+ progress. It was crystal clear to everyone that Anet was trying to prevent us from going above 50. You did so at your own risk betting that it would work to your advantage when they did open 50. Like any bet, there was a risk of loss. Don’t blame the house because you played those risks.
For every level above 30 that is wiped you get a bonus daily chest. Done is done.
a Bonus daily chest is nothing for ppl that invest Money and time worth of 2-3 legendaries back 2012 to get to scale 81 legit way rez orbs from shop… if they implement leaderboards they should have the true leaders on top or at least give us a 1 time Special reward for all that did get to scale 81 so they done scale 80 legitly and stuff and it Needs to be really Special to make up for the hours and Money spent
a daily chest is just a joke!
Good lord enough with the legendary analogy. There’s no comparison between the two so stop spewing this in every thread on this page.
Myself and many of my friends spent a lot of time and a huge amount of effort hitting fractal level 80. Obviously people who are fractal level 50+ make up a very small minority of the game’s population, so the reset to level 30 no doubt won’t upset many people.
For somebody like me, however, it really comes as an unpleasant shock that I’m going to lose 50 levels of personal progression that I worked extremely hard for. It’s the first time I’ve had something I worked very hard for actually taken away from me in an MMO. A lot of organization goes into hitting 80, and it requires a lot of patience and huge amounts of effort. Losing 50 levels of progression is literally like having two or three max-level alts deleted in terms of time investment lost.
When the PvP leaderboards were introduced and players were stripped of their QP, the top players were given reward chests with unique titles as a way to acknowledge they were at the cutting edge before the leaderboards were implemented. It would be nice to see something similar done for the players like myself and my friends who spent literally hundreds of hours getting to the top fractal tier possible. Maybe titles based on the tier reached, similar to the pre-leaderboard PvP titles.
Without something like this, there will be nothing to show for ever reaching that goal (the cutting edge of PvE in GW2, in my opinion) other than a memory, as there were no unique rewards for reaching high levels from the fractals themselves – most chests just contained blues and greens.
Would appreciate an official response on this, thanks.
I spent dozens and dozen and dozens of hours running 48 dailies simply to rarely get a skin and even more rarely get the skin I wanted. After innumerable disappointing and frustrating runs, I stopped running Fractals entirely.
What I’m trying to say is this: Reworking Fractals was reward enough.
If they reset everyone to lvl 30, anyone that didn’t get to level 48 on at least 1 character by today should be reset to level 1. Because why just kitten off half of your community when you can kitten off all of them?
Also, it would give the people that are essentially laughing at us because they didn’t get 30+ and we did a taste of their own medicine.
Oh right, but it’s not the casuals you like to punish, it’s just the hard core players.
It’s as if you don’t even want people to play your game seriously.
Also, inb4 more pointless gear checks as opposed to skill checks.
It’s one thing to pound your chest and exclaim that hardcore players are being punished, but how exactly are they being punished?
Because we’re at 30 instead of 48? As far as I’m concerned, since I was only running them for skins, I really don’t care what level I’m at so long as it’s the level where skins are dropping.
Hardcore players were running Fractals for skins. They’re still at a level where skins drop. They’ll be back at 48 in no time. This isn’t a big deal, and account-wide Fractals MORE than makes up for the loss.
The only thing I can hope for is that the leader board idea backfires, people will be complaining that they can’t join others because of leader board discrimination and hurting the people that didn’t get lvl30 before, who are now laughing with us.
I know for a fact that I’m going to abuse the leader board system just to give the finger back to Anet.
Also, Fractal weapons at lvl10? If anything, they should only drop at lvl40+. Also, stop giving us rings at 40+. I don’t want rings, I don’t need rings, screw your stupid rings. Or let us salvage them for infusions/globs/vials/shards. But seriously. Screw the stupid rings.
They’re obviously trying to make Fractals more accessible:
Currently, Fractal Weapons only have a realistic chance of dropping regularly in 40+. And currently, Fractal weapons are the only reason anybody even runs 40+. However, only a very small population of the playerbase sits at 40+ personal reward level because Fractal leveling is an unbelievable time sink. Anet knows this, and they know that the majority of their playerbase will never level that far into Fractals and consequently never have a real shot at acquiring skins.
Clearly what they are trying to is front load the rewards so that even casual players can get weapons without spending dozens and dozens of hours leveling through Fractals. Now players have pretty much wholesale access to rewards after 10+. This should spark new interest in what has become a very stagnant pool of Fractal runners.
I think the leaderboards are silly, but I’m not convinced they’ll have as profound an effect as you’re suggesting. First we need to see what the new drop rates are. If Fractal weapons drop with some consistency in the 20s, then most people will farm in the 20s—especially with the new unpredictable instances coming in 30+ which could be a headache. People farming 20s will have less effect on the leaderboard, and will therefore have little reason to check the leaderboard.
It seems to me that the leaderboard is the metaphorical bone being thrown to players who previously relied on Fractal skins to display elite fractal running status. Now that skins are becoming more widely accessible, Anet has (perhaps mistakenly) given the hardcore runners another method of showing their dedication via leaderboards .
and so what!? now everyone have to get everything in game!?, cant some stuff be “exclusive” for players that are more “hardcore” or that are more skilled?
Cliffnotes for the reading comp challenged: Apparently they see being towards the top of the leaderboard as sufficiently “exclusive.”
Also, dont get made at me. I’m not a dev.
The only thing I can hope for is that the leader board idea backfires, people will be complaining that they can’t join others because of leader board discrimination and hurting the people that didn’t get lvl30 before, who are now laughing with us.
I know for a fact that I’m going to abuse the leader board system just to give the finger back to Anet.
Also, Fractal weapons at lvl10? If anything, they should only drop at lvl40+. Also, stop giving us rings at 40+. I don’t want rings, I don’t need rings, screw your stupid rings. Or let us salvage them for infusions/globs/vials/shards. But seriously. Screw the stupid rings.
They’re obviously trying to make Fractals more accessible:
Currently, Fractal Weapons only have a realistic chance of dropping regularly in 40+. And currently, Fractal weapons are the only reason anybody even runs 40+. However, only a very small population of the playerbase sits at 40+ personal reward level because Fractal leveling is an unbelievable time sink. Anet knows this, and they know that the majority of their playerbase will never level that far into Fractals and consequently never have a real shot at acquiring skins.
Clearly what they are trying to is front load the rewards so that even casual players can get weapons without spending dozens and dozens of hours leveling through Fractals. Now players have pretty much wholesale access to rewards after 10+. This should spark new interest in what has become a very stagnant pool of Fractal runners.
I think the leaderboards are silly, but I’m not convinced they’ll have as profound an effect as you’re suggesting. First we need to see what the new drop rates are. If Fractal weapons drop with some consistency in the 20s, then most people will farm in the 20s—especially with the new unpredictable instances coming in 30+ which could be a headache. People farming 20s will have less effect on the leaderboard, and will therefore have little reason to check the leaderboard.
It seems to me that the leaderboard is the metaphorical bone being thrown to players who previously relied on Fractal skins to display elite fractal running status. Now that skins are becoming more widely accessible, Anet has (perhaps mistakenly) given the hardcore runners another method of showing their dedication via leaderboards .
Awesome. I’ll gladly have my progress reset to 30 (which isn’t bad, considering they’re capping at 50) for account-wide Fractals. Leaderboards are meh, but whatever. Account-wide Fractals. Awesome.
Speaking strictly PvE (several posters above have adequately covered the PvP mobility/sticking issues), Warrior is superior to Guardian right now. Arguments can be made (and have been made in another thread a few days ago) that Guardians are capable of outclassing Warriors in terms of DPS and Reflects with optimal group makeups—but if you had such a group I doubt you’d be here asking for profession advice.
Perfect Min/Max pro groups aside, Warriors currently bring better sustain, DPS, and support to most groups.
I’ve always thought Tomes would be vastly superior if they replaced your Utility and not Weapon skills. I.e., letting you continue fighting as normal while replacing your #6, 7, 8, 9, 0 with the Tome skills.
(edited by Kilandros.2098)
The problem is in PvE too many guardians camp at 1200 range with scepter as it is, another ranged option and more people would do it. You’re not helping anyone at that range.
Unfortunately, bad players will be bad regardless of what weapons are added to the game. But that’s not a good reason not to add more weapons.
Your assertion that it is “simply unnecessary” is a logical fallacy, so your question regarding my reading ability is forgiven given your complete misunderstanding of the principal argument at work here. Technically, none of the traits are “necessary” to play Guardian. What we’re discussing is optimization. Optimal builds utilize 10 in Virtues to have access to, among other things, Master of Consecrations. Even if you aren’t using WoR, or you aren’t keeping Aegis up all of the time, the 10 in Virtues is powerful enough that it’s worth having.
To Recap: Even when you aren’t using them, they are powerful enough to warrant going into Virtues for an optimal build.
So you are telling me for every encounter in the game WoR is a necessity? If not then what I said was exactly what I meant.
Now I see the big arguments and the antics with semantics come into play here so let me break it down for you.
Optimizing what? DPS in comparison to support. Because by that same logic I could say in many if not most fights you could go full DPS and be a net benefit to the team but with every little to no support. In many cases guardian support is a luxury but not a necessity as many classes can and do run support. Further more our greatest support is WoR as many classes have seen their condition management increased. The same goes for stability. So what we really have is is strong reflect that sets us apart. The thing is the importance of WoR is based on a few encounters where it is considered nearly absolutely vital but in most cases it is not. In many cases carrying another trait/skill might be better.
The issue is that this has already been said. As stated in my OP the absolute demand that someone prove their build is best at all thing over shadows the truth that tradeoffs happen from build to build.
The main issue I have is the vacuum many of you live in where your one build is best. The fact is going 10 20 or even 30 into virtues can be justified but that is does not need to be. Those 10 points can go there or somewhere else. There is an opportunity cost. Without recognizing that its like your trying to argue that your build, those traits, etc. are good when I have conceded that already and just pointed out that their are other competitive options.
And no you are not reading just selectively pulling your eyes to what you do not like. I understand that but it makes me wonder why discuss if you intend to stand on a box and defend a build not being attacked?
Power of the Virtuous lol did you actually read the trait? (hint: read the bold)
Elusive power in real play where you might not be the perfect player who never get hit while having 0 vigor. is generally more bang for you buck vs UC. You could be perfect run CoF 1 and never get even then I would say it is better.
And no it does not always do more dps.
Would you mind if I interrupt your thought process?
If you have elusive power you have permanent vigour. That leads to the decrease of elusive power’s efficiency to lower levels. As such, I would kindly disagree with you about its potential.
Do you ever dodge? Do you ever have to dodge each and every attack to keep your scholar bonus? In some encounter for the most part you could just stand there never get hit and never lose Aegis thus UC would be a better choice. In most fights as a zerker guardian you dodge when necessary and generally that is often. If that is the case then your endurance bar is never full even with vigor.
To be honest it’s difficult to acknowledge every single one of your points, particularly as your increasingly intractable position has left you increasingly difficult to communicate with civilly. So yes, I am being rather selective.
The point that I’m trying to make—indeed the point that keeps eluding you—is that we’re all in fact talking about what you refer to as “opportunity cost” (i.e., traits in one line take away from another line). The point that has been repeatedly made—and the point that you continue to argue uphill against—is that 10 in Virtues pays dividends in opportunity cost.
In other words, no matter what you’re trying to do, 10 (or more) in Virtues generates more “bang for its buck” than 10 (or more) spent elsewhere.
We have the staff for two-handed ranged uselessness, what do we need a second useless weapon for?
Just curious, but why do you think a Longbow would be useless?
Because it’s ranged. Besides, what would its role be? We have a singletarget ranged wepon (scepter) and a multitarget-supportive one (staff), there’s not so much space which a longbow could fill.
Staff isn’t a ranged weapon—it’s a farming/buff weapon. For comparisons sake look at something like Warrior Longbow which is a nice mix of ranged DPS and utility/support. Are you saying that would be useless?
But anyway, what’s wrong with having a 2-handed ranged weapon for the sake of having one? Why the weird vitriol?
Elusive power in real play where you might not be the perfect player who never get hit while having 0 vigor. is generally more bang for you buck vs UC. You could be perfect run CoF 1 and never get even then I would say it is better.
Just to be clear, but even in your hypothetical CoF run where you are never hit and UC is up 100% of the time, you’re still claiming that 10% > 20%?
It’s been awhile since I was in elementary school, but I’m quite sure that’s not how math works.
Do you have a problem reading? I do not ask this is an insult but as an actual question.
But it’s not just “2 seconds.” It’s 12 seconds uptime and 20 seconds downtime instead of 30 seconds downtime.
“For your second in many fights it is simply unnecessary for other fights most of the time with a DPS party you are done before the CD is up.”
Not to mention that your argument regarding DPS seems to ignore the fact that Wall of Reflect is capable of doing massive damage. Take Lupicus for example: People don’t hold onto WoR when they need to save their butts—they get in there and pop it at the right time to do insane damage.
“in many fights it is simply unnecessary "
“Wall of reflection works even without the trait.”
Not every dungeon requires it. It will not do massive damage in all situations. In many cases it is factually useless. Does that mean you never bring it? No. But the game is not a vacuum where there is only one build. There are trade offs with each and every build. Realistically looking at what is gained what is lost is simply practical.
Your assertion that it is “simply unnecessary” is a logical fallacy, so your question regarding my reading ability is forgiven given your complete misunderstanding of the principal argument at work here. Technically, none of the traits are “necessary” to play Guardian. What we’re discussing is optimization. Optimal builds utilize 10 in Virtues to have access to, among other things, Master of Consecrations. Even if you aren’t using WoR, or you aren’t keeping Aegis up all of the time, the 10 in Virtues is powerful enough that it’s worth having.
To Recap: Even when you aren’t using them, they are powerful enough to warrant going into Virtues for an optimal build.
You will pump out more DPS with normal play with 10 30 0 30 0 than 10 30 0 5 25 any day so not a big issue.
Rather not. The meta has both better support and better DPS under normal conditions.
Master of consecrations is useful but that is really is you need wall of reflection and how long will you really need it (2 extra seconds is not going to make or break a build)?
Increasing the uptime from max 25% to max 37.5% is quite significant.
Sigh…your first statement likely revolves around this being up all the time which in most cases it will not be. Though in some cases you can keep it up in most fights it will not be up the entire time. Even so you have no numbers to prove your claim. What we do know is that in either case their are more DPS traits honor that work to the rather dodgy play of Zerker guardian. Not that big an issue but many feel a need to measure their “manhood” through their build.
Feel free to do a giant DPS test to prove your point if you feel so inclined.
For your second in many fights it is simply unnecessary for other fights most of the time with a DPS party you are done before the CD is up. Percentages are nice but 2 seconds is 2 seconds.
If you go 20 into virtues for both you further kitten your DPS and even if you did go that deep it you would carry AR instead. Not a bad idea for support.
Like I said both builds are fine but many …… people feel the need to prove how good their build is when its pretty much not that better then the other.
The differences are small at best the trades offs clear. Not really worth an argument.
Read the last part of my first post. Here is a quote since you missed it the first time.
“Instead of arguing just respect each others play style and let it go. Stop trying to justify your decision to play what you play both builds have their glaring trade offs. Recognize them and move on.”
But it’s not just “2 seconds.” It’s 12 seconds uptime and 20 seconds downtime instead of 30 seconds downtime.
Not to mention that your argument regarding DPS seems to ignore the fact that Wall of Reflect is capable of doing massive damage. Take Lupicus for example: People don’t hold onto WoR when they need to save their butts—they get in there and pop it at the right time to do insane damage.
We have the staff for two-handed ranged uselessness, what do we need a second useless weapon for?
Ah of course. I’ll edit the OP to clarify usefulness is a prerequisite to any such 2-handed ranged weapon. Sorry if that was unclear.
Let’s keep this bumped. I’d like to see Longbow added to our repertoire.
My recommendation is you start running Fractals on your Warrior (like I’ve been doing) and we’ll talk.
I main a warrior, I hate playing guardian because it’s boring. I’m just not letting my personal preference skew the reality of classes. I can accept and acknowledge the merits of each class, and judge what they bring to the table in context of the rest of their kit, relative to other classes. I think guardians are extremely powerful for fractals, I just hate playing it, I would much rather play my warrior because it’s more fun (see: opinion/personal preference), and is also very powerful. I have friends who hate warrior and love guardian, so it’s not like guardian is just boring to play for everyone.
I’m the exact opposite. I main a Guardian. I’ve done a thousand Fractals on my Guardian. I have always and will always see myself as “maining” a Guard, but, as you say, I don’t let personal preference skew the reality of the class. Warrior is, I think, the superior all-around profession right now—and is, I think, objectively superior at bringing easy Support and DPS to groups.
Anyway, good talk. See you out there.
Well, you just seem to have not learned much about guardians in all that (wasted?) playtime then.
Yeah, and apparently I haven’t learned the moral behind the saying “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink” either
Also, nice strawman argument. You should look that up.
(edited by Kilandros.2098)
My recommendation is you start running Fractals on your Warrior (like I’ve been doing) and we’ll talk.
I main a warrior, I hate playing guardian because it’s boring. I’m just not letting my personal preference skew the reality of classes. I can accept and acknowledge the merits of each class, and judge what they bring to the table in context of the rest of their kit, relative to other classes. I think guardians are extremely powerful for fractals, I just hate playing it, I would much rather play my warrior because it’s more fun (see: opinion/personal preference), and is also very powerful. I have friends who hate warrior and love guardian, so it’s not like guardian is just boring to play for everyone.
I’m the exact opposite. I main a Guardian. I’ve done a thousand Fractals on my Guardian. I have always and will always see myself as “maining” a Guard, but, as you say, I don’t let personal preference skew the reality of the class. Warrior is, I think, the superior all-around profession right now—and is, I think, objectively superior at bringing easy Support and DPS to groups.
Anyway, good talk. See you out there.
Before you slink away, why don’t you retract your statement of guardians not excelling at dps or support? Reflects, aegis and hammer symbol actually give the group the opportunity to apply strong dps full stop and fully buffed guardian dps is superior to warrior, and I’m sure people will be happy to show you the numbers if you don’t want to believe it at face value.
Because I am not going to retract my claim that Warriors bring superior Support + DPS at the same time than Guardians do.
Not the response you were hoping for?
(edited by Kilandros.2098)
My recommendation is you start running Fractals on your Warrior (like I’ve been doing) and we’ll talk.
I main a warrior, I hate playing guardian because it’s boring. I’m just not letting my personal preference skew the reality of classes. I can accept and acknowledge the merits of each class, and judge what they bring to the table in context of the rest of their kit, relative to other classes. I think guardians are extremely powerful for fractals, I just hate playing it, I would much rather play my warrior because it’s more fun (see: opinion/personal preference), and is also very powerful. I have friends who hate warrior and love guardian, so it’s not like guardian is just boring to play for everyone.
I’m the exact opposite. I main a Guardian. I’ve done a thousand Fractals on my Guardian. I have always and will always see myself as “maining” a Guard, but, as you say, I don’t let personal preference skew the reality of the class. Warrior is, I think, the superior all-around profession right now—and is, I think, objectively superior at bringing easy Support and DPS to groups.
Anyway, good talk. See you out there.
Talk about a loaded question. I remember reading the numbers saying that WW gives Guardian GS superior DPS under perfect situations—but how often do those perfect situations materialize so all the projectiles land? Not very often.
That being said, I prefer the “feel” of Guardian GS, whatever that means.
Warriors are superior at providing Support and DPS. Do you dispute that claim? Do you honestly believe Guardians may as easily achieve strong DPS/Support hybrid builds as Warriors can?
Guardians can deal equal or superior DPS to warriors with minimal effort. Guardians provide defensive support, warriors provide offensive support. Guardian rotation is 90% of the time spamming 1, warrior rotation has more involved than that. Sure, guardians are squishy, but their defensive utility more than compensates, and isn’t such a big deal after you practice for a while. I’ll put it in really simple terms for you.
Warrior buffs guardian, guardian buffs warrior. Team much buff, very damage, such defense, difficulty easy.
‘Princess Cookie’ – Death and Taxes [DnT]. Pm me and I’ll show you my lvl80 fractal.
Congratulations I guess for being among the few who bothered past the 50s via (fixed) methods like Pets/Revive Orbs. Not something I’d brag about, but to each his own.
Clearly we’re at an impasse here. My recommendation is you start running Fractals on your Warrior (like I’ve been doing) and we’ll talk.
they excel at neither DPS nor support
Guardians excel at both of these.
Excel: Verb. Be exceptionally good at an activity or subject.
You take the quote entirely out of context—Warriors are superior at providing Support and DPS. Do you dispute that claim? Do you honestly believe Guardians may as easily achieve strong DPS/Support hybrid builds as Warriors can?
You seem to have completely misunderstood my ongoing posts here. In some weird nervous reaction you run to defend Guardian when it isn’t really under attack in the first place. Are Guardians capable of leveling through Fractals and contributing to groups? Absolutely. As you yourself claim you’ve managed to reached level 80 Fractals (I am, however, skeptical on that claim). That’s fantastic for you. I know several people who have leveled Rangers through Fractals, too. But that doesn’t mean I’d ever post recommendations that people push Rangers through higher-level Fractals. On the contrary, when I spend time posting, it’s usually to help other players out.
And that’s precisely what I’m doing here; helping a player out. If OP wants to offer easy support and DPS, his best bet is Warrior. If, on the other hand, he wants to offer 1-2 utility skills and excellent DPS at the expense of being squishy with a low HP pool—well, you’ve made a good case for him to choose Guardian on those merits.
High reflect and prot uptime in higher fractals is just such a game changer. Warriors aren’t any good at providing those.
True. Warriors unfortunately are only good at stacking might, banners, sustain, and dps.
Oh right those are game changers too
It’s almost as if you can take a mix of professions, to fit the needs of the party.
Never mind, I forgot you have to pick one profession to fill all 5 spots. What was I thinking!
Truly ironic considering your reply to my post.
No, I just don’t have the patience to explain to someone why guardians are amazing at high level fractals, when you seem to have no idea about them. I played my guardian up to fractal lvl80, I’ve seen the difference guardians make, and so have my friends who have done it without a guardian or two.
Guardians maintain permanent protection, strong reflect up time and have good control, vuln and DPS (lol @ you saying guardians do bad DPS). They are a far superior choice than a Mesmer, unless you want to include the mimic gimic. Other classes do not have the same utility or reflect up time as guardians.
@OP, 10/25/0/5/25. This leaves you with 5 points to put where you please. Zeal for vuln on symbols (good for trash in combination with hammer, mainly dredge fractal), Radiance for RHS, good for scepter and sword (mostly for boss stomping), Honor for shout cooldowns, or Virtues for some reason that I’m sure you could justify. For this trait set you usually want to have x/focus + GS, swapping GS out for hammer or staff whenever you need the utility from those weapons.
Alternatively, there is 15/15/0/20/20. This is a very powerful guardian build, as long as your party remains melee and you don’t mind camping hammer (you should probably learn to like hammer). Hammer+Staff is the general weapon set you’ll want for this trait spread.
Obal from DnT has some very good, helpful guides related to guardian in high level fractals. I’d recommend checking out some of his stuff.
Please find and quote where I say Guardians do “Bad” Dps. Please.
EDIT: And ignore Kilandros. Guardians are always used in high level fractals. Hell DnT brings two a lot in their high level runs.
I’ve said it before in previous threads, and I’ll say it again here: Reflects are the ONLY reason Guardians are still relevant in higher level FoTM.
Do you really want to counsel someone down the grueling path of leveling through Fractals on his Guardian because of a couple of utility skills? I don’t. There are more than enough Guardians sitting at 48+ to fill the 1-2 max Guardians per party. I’d much rather recommend someone put their energy into a class that is in much higher demand and for a number of reasons.
But that’s just me. I’m just a caring and considerate dude.
High reflect and prot uptime in higher fractals is just such a game changer. Warriors aren’t any good at providing those.
True. Warriors unfortunately are only good at stacking might, banners, sustain, and dps.
Oh right those are game changers too
It’s almost as if you can take a mix of professions, to fit the needs of the party.
Never mind, I forgot you have to pick one profession to fill all 5 spots. What was I thinking!
Truly ironic considering your reply to my post.
High reflect and prot uptime in higher fractals is just such a game changer. Warriors aren’t any good at providing those.
True. Warriors unfortunately are only good at stacking might, banners, sustain, and dps.
Oh right those are game changers too
He didn’t say not to bring warriors. You need to read better. What he is saying is that guards bring stuff warriors can’t. So your post about replacing guards with warriors is asinine. Both are needed.
My post isn’t asinine at all, actually. And while we’re on the topic of reading comprehension, please re-read my post under the OP in which I explicitly state that Guardians have access to Reflects and that Warriors do not—but also that other classes besides Guardian also have access to Reflects and missile absorption. The point, which was apparently lost, is that Guardians offer nothing unique in high-level FoTM; they excel at neither DPS nor support, and their one claim to fame—Reflects—are not exclusive to the class.
Most serious FoTM groups consist of 3 Warriors minimum. That’s because Warriors offer superior DPS and Support, and they do so with ease. Yes, Guardians have Reflects are Reflects are important. But that’s a utility, and you don’t need more than 1-2 Guardians (MAX) providing that utility. OP said he wants to contribute both DPS and Support and so far I’ve been the most honest with him on how best to achieve that.
High reflect and prot uptime in higher fractals is just such a game changer. Warriors aren’t any good at providing those.
True. Warriors unfortunately are only good at stacking might, banners, sustain, and dps.
Oh right those are game changers too
hei im looking for a supp(boon) but at the same time good dps build what do u guys suggest me to use?
Character select → Choose Race → Choose Profession → Warrior
I’m not joking, unfortunately. There’s nothing that Guardians do that Warriors don’t do better, except for Reflects. Warrior trait design allows for much more effective support/DPS builds. While Warrior doesn’t have a reflect, you really only need 1-2 professions with access to a reflect per group and those can be achieved by Guardians, Mesmers, and Thieves (sort of).
I’ve been leveling my Warrior through Fractals to join by Guardian who’s at 48+ and, frankly, I’m surprised I waited so long. Warrior is just hands down the superior profession.
(Before the Forum Warriors raid this thread: I am not saying Warrior is OP. I think Warrior is awesome. I think Warrior is in a great place. I wish all classes were on its level)
/signed
Frustration with the camera is a big part of what’s pushing me away from this game.
The gameplay is simply feeling too clunky for me right now. I can’t see what’s going on in large combats. There’s a weird dodge delay that rears its ugly head and random times. Camera angle is an absolute joke.
It’s making it hard to stay interested, to be honest.
the range increase would be way too much as a base. If traited with extra range, you’ll have 1800 range on longbow and 1500 for short bow…. it’s a short bow for a reason, its meant to be more of a close range type weapon.
Reading comprehension. I said the range trait should be removed and something else added in its place.
I’m not particularly swayed by the “it’s called a shortbow so it needs to be close range” arguments. Range is relative, so long as its range is less than longbow (see, e.g., my OP in which I suggest 1200 for SB, 1500 for LB) there shouldn’t be a problem. And as for arguments that Thief SB is currently 900 range—well, Warrior LB is 1000 range untraited, so there clearly isn’t a minimum/maximum range restriction applied across the board to weapons.
Not to mention that this is a game, so attempting to take literally the functionality of weaponry isn’t a particularly good idea. We don’t split hairs, for example, over the fact that Rangers have an unlimited quiver. Nor do we agonize over the mystical projectiles fired from Scepters and Staves, despite those being close-ranged bludgeoners in reality. Shortbow is “short” insomuch as it is differentiated from longbow’s “long,” that is, the terms have no real meaning other than what is given to them by the developers. Freed of the burden of such linear thinking, I think you would agree that Shortbow isn’t necessarily a weapon that has to be of “short” range (whatever “short” even means).
Hello everybody.
Please keep in mind to keep this thread productive and healthy.Keep a thread complaining about complainers productive and healthy?
Right? This OP is as inflammatory and unproductive as they come.
Disclaimer: These days I spend most of my time playing my Guardian or my Warrior. But the first character I rolled in GW2 was a Ranger and, despite my better judgment, Ranger has remained a class I want to play even though I don’t particularly enjoy playing it.
Here are some fairly straightforward suggestions I think could go a long way improving the class.
Increased Range for Bows
Longbow should have a base range of 1500, and Shortbow should have a base range of 1200. The increased range trait should be removed and replaced with something else.
The thinking behind this is pretty simple: Give Ranger that intended niche of the ranged heavy hitter. As it stands, 1200 range is nothing unique to any of the professions really, but 1500 is. Rangers shouldn’t be forced to trait into the style of play that the class was originally intended for. Furthermore, 1500 range adds some value to the currently lackluster Longbow.
But the Shortbow should also have its range of 1200 reinstated. The Developers approached the popularity of the Shortbow in the worst possible way: they nerfed it rather than improving Ranger’s other alternatives.
Increased Greatsword Damage
Ranger Greatsword needs a substantial damage increase. Someone (I forget who, apologies) compared the DPS of all Ranger weapons recently and discovered that Shortbow out damages Greatsword. That shouldn’t be the case.
The GS autoattack chain should have its damage increased ~10-15% to fit in with the design philosophy of melee weapons dealing greater damage than ranged weapons. I’d also like to see GS #5 grant a short Stealth similar to the recent LB changes to provide a little added utility.
Troll Ungent
This suggestion might be more controversial, but I’d like to see this reworked into a Ranger version of Warrior’s Healing Signet.
It currently heals for ~8,500 over 10s every 25s making it a kind of hybrid healing—it’s not quite a burst heal, nor is it really a sustained regen. And that’s why I don’t like it. I’d rather choose and have either the burst healing or the sustain—Troll Ungent gives neither particularly well.
I think Warrior’s Healing Signet is great and would fit perfectly on a class like Ranger.
Pets
A lot—ok, a ton—has been said about Pets so I’ll keep this short: The Pet mechanic is broken.
Since the Pet controls are extremely rudimentary, there isn’t a real skill curve to help the Developers tune pets. What I mean by that is, the pet control system isn’t sophisticated enough so that pets can really be controlled well. Such a rudimentary control system that Devs are left with two choices: either (1) Pets are extremely powerful and are very, very difficult to kill, or (2) Pets are not particularly powerful and can be killed just as players can be killed.
The Developers clearly opted for #2, apparently thinking that the control system was sophisticated enough so that player skill controlling pets would be the thing that increased pet survivability. But, as I said above, the control system is rudimentary at best: player control is essentially pulling your pet in and out of combat to avoid hits, aoe, etc. Unfortunately even this style of play reduces pet DPS, albeit not as much as a dead pet.
But there would still be problems if the Developers had opted for option #1. Nearly invulnerable pets would bring about plenty of problems on its own. In PvE, Rangers could sit back while ~40% of their DPS handled difficult content while the Ranger sat back in safety. To say nothing of PvP and WvW where the problems of unkillable pets would be even more pronounced.
Both options are seriously flawed, and they both need to be scrapped altogether. My recommendation is make Pets a utility, non-combat companion. What I mean by that is, Pets neither take nor deal damage, nor do they draw any aggro. F1-F4 are replaced by various utilities that change depending on the pet.
For example, when using your spider pet F1 might cause your next attack to immobilize, F2 might cause your next 3 attacks to poison, F3 might cleanse you and nearby allies of poison and immobilize, etc. Alternatively a Feline pet might grant bonus damage with F1, a brief Stealth with F2, etc.
The developers could work some really interesting combinations into the pet utilities this way. Some pets might be more damage oriented, some more defense oriented, and others more utility and CC oriented.
But best of all, Rangers don’t have to sacrifice a huge chunk of their DPS because their pet is dead.
So much for keeping that part short. Thanks for reading.
Talking for pve only: I realy get sick of the damage warriors do, every dungeon in the lfg tool: zerk wa only… This class needs a nerf in pve becaus it’s just impossible to get close to it in damage, why is it that this class has the right to do more damage than most others? How much longer are other classes going to be discriminated? Most people here are against a nerf because they use it for speed clears. It just makes me so furious when i see those wa only groups and even more when arenanet refuses to nerf them… Balance, it’s a joke here.
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Ele, guard, thief – all of these classes outdamage warrior. Stop being misinformed.
lol, you might think he’s misinformed, but I’m sure you’re delusional
threads like this make me wish i had a downvote button. so no one else needs to be subjected to this brand of stupidity.
Let me guess, you charged into this thread with an unnatural vigor to also protest that Warrior is in need of a buff?
PRO TIP: Warrior is objectively the strongest class in the game. If you couldn’t figure out that a thread calling for further improvement was done sarcastically, then the joke is (literally) on you.
My analysis is that this game is a business, and this business makes money from its gem store. As long as something can be sold for profit, it’s never off the table completely. It’s likely a pretty simple cost/benefit breakdown involving a number of factors like how much they would have to sell the gems for to make money, impact on player satisfaction (those who would and would not purchase race change), and overall difficulty implementing.
Well, I don’t know what’s their code structure, but as a game developer I see such a task as an implementation nightmare. Even if they reset personal story completely, there are still problems with all the achievements, mission items, cultural items, cultural skills.
Thank you, I also develop games (as a hobby in my case) and I’ve been trying to say this (like in 3 or 4 posts on the first page) but it seems Kilandros didn’t read them or just pass them through
I said quite explicitly that it boils down to a cost/benefit analysis. The fact that it might be a headache for someone claiming to be a game developer doesn’t mean that it isn’t profitable to do so.
I don’t know how much it would cost to do and I don’t know how much they could make by doing it. But if there’s profit to be had, it’s on the table.
In a very simple 1+1 way of seeing it, it will always be profitable. In a long term analysis there are other things they should put this immense effort. I’m not against a Change Race Kit. I’m just realistic and probably have an insight on the matter that others may not (It is my field of expertise, I’m a professional on IT and Software for years now. I don’t know about others in this forums so I provide a more realistic view on the matter). It can be done, but at a high cost. Taking all the things that might need a revamp on the game, I don’t think this will hit their priority list anytime soon. I could be wrong if the economic analysis show it is more profitable than it looks like.
I’m really not trying to advocate one way or the other. I merely wanted to point out that the people saying it will never happen because of personal story, etc. concerns are focusing on the wrong issue. This isn’t a subscription game so that kind of thinking goes out the window. Anet makes their money through the gem store, so if there’s money to be made, it’s on the table.
I really don’t know if there’s any real demand for race change. But claiming it isn’t going to happen because it’s a development headache is turning a blind eye of the realities of the situation. Developers routinely revamp and modify games because it’s profitable to do so. The only real question is whether the benefits of developing race change outweigh the costs. I will be the first to say I cannot answer that question.
My server seems to do him daily, but I don’t fully understand the complaints on Teq. If I buy a ticket to Disneyland ankitten ot allowed to ride the kiddy rides because I am too big I don’t throw a fit, I just go do something else. If I can’t do Teq for whatever reason(I dont like teamspeak, too hard, too much organization) then I can choose to just go do something else.
Content is just not for everyone, some content requires more investment than others but you can choose to invest it or not.
I think the problem is that Teq has become a ghost town because the difficulty-reward ratio is completely out of whack. We don’t like content that is exhausting for the sake of exhausting, without having any real light at the end of the tunnel.
I’ve said before in other threads that I like many of the changes made to Teq (except that I hate the way guesting and overflows are handled. Half the battle is getting into the map), but there’s no point doing it because, ultimately, I get very little out of ~1+ hours work.
It’s sort of like how Fractals have been handled. Devs want us running Fractals? Ok, give us a reason to run them beyond losing 1-2 hours of our lives.
My analysis is that this game is a business, and this business makes money from its gem store. As long as something can be sold for profit, it’s never off the table completely. It’s likely a pretty simple cost/benefit breakdown involving a number of factors like how much they would have to sell the gems for to make money, impact on player satisfaction (those who would and would not purchase race change), and overall difficulty implementing.
Well, I don’t know what’s their code structure, but as a game developer I see such a task as an implementation nightmare. Even if they reset personal story completely, there are still problems with all the achievements, mission items, cultural items, cultural skills.
Thank you, I also develop games (as a hobby in my case) and I’ve been trying to say this (like in 3 or 4 posts on the first page) but it seems Kilandros didn’t read them or just pass them through
I said quite explicitly that it boils down to a cost/benefit analysis. The fact that it might be a headache for someone claiming to be a game developer doesn’t mean that it isn’t profitable to do so.
I don’t know how much it would cost to do and I don’t know how much they could make by doing it. But if there’s profit to be had, it’s on the table.
Okay guys, you gotta realize that kind of stuff will NEVER EVER happen.
They’re meant to be niche and relatively unreliable also probably the only line of utilities that is not entirely selfish.They WON’T become like kits, they WON’T get rid of the limitations (time, charges).
Every 6 hours or so a thread about this pops up and its all the same, try to work with them the way they are now or don’t bother at all if they are that restricting to you.
BlackBeard has made a nice thread about it iirc as has Fortus, trying to fit them in their respective builds.
Your response really isn’t that helpful. The OP has constructive feedback which is precisely what we’re supposed to discuss. If you think there are too many conjure threads and that they all say the same thing, why not ignore them? The OP was clearly titled as a conjure thread.
That being said, I think we should continue to push this idea. Here’s why:
Anet: “We want you guys to use conjures! Here we changed them so now they’re like way cool and useable lol”
Us: "We don’t like using them because 1) we can’t swap in an out of them despite our class “mechanic” relying heavily on attunement swapping; 2) there’s both a time and charge limitation—lose one, either one. Those are the major problems with conjures, neither of which have ever been addressed."
Anet: “But we, like, want these to be a super cool ‘niche’ weapon!”
Us: “It’s not a ‘niche’ if no one uses them. Then it’s just ‘unused’”