Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

snip

I deleted this post, I had initiative and cooldown mixed up, see above. Besides it doesnt matter, there are thieves that can keep up with RTL, swiftness, and teleport np, so this is just academic.

Topher.1684:

A thief actually does have no chance at keeping up with you. They will catch up to you a number of times (= to the number of Shadow Steps he has equipped), but they can’t keep up. RtL has a very short CD, and you have a few sources of cripple/chill that will just screw him over royally (as a D/D ele, you are much better as handling conditions then the average thief). Using a short bow, the thief can keep up for a little while, but if he does, he will have little-to-no initiative left to hurt you seriously.

Edit: Just like to add, Thieves are more mobile when moving around a small area (shadow step to and fro, small ports on various weapons), less mobile when trying to move in one direction (which is what you were implying).

I’m just talking about straight mobility in a short pursuit like 20 seconds, RTL will be up once for this. All I said is there is no way to get away for an elementalist. If straight running a thief should have an elementalist dead in this time frame. I’m not talking about this being unfair etc, it was just a matter of fact.

The thief has other leaps at his disposal such as steal, shadowstep, shadowshot, heartseeker, in addition to permanent swiftness via trait. There are many others. The thief also has crippling options, and can remove chill/cripple as required, but leap also overcomes these.

So no, there is no way for an elementalist to get away if a thief wishes to pursue. The thief has so many more options in this scenario. I’m ok with this, but this is how it is.

kenshinakh.3672:

I got a bunker D/D Ele, and I never run away from thieves o.O. But that shows, if I don’t run, and GC thieves are like desserts to my characters, doesn’t that mean others can do the same too?

By the way, in a straight out race, an ele with D/D can outrun a thief, especially now their signet matches the thief’s speed signet.

Show me a video of beating a culling stealth exploit thief, and I’ll show you a thief that decided he got bored of winning or running away.

Also the elementalist signet buff doesnt matter, most elementalists have full uptime on swiftness and it doesnt stack. I would think an elementalist would know this??

Daecollo.9578:

Heres what I read: Nerf Stealth so I can kill everything and nothing has a chance to get away from me! – signed D/D Elementalist.

Seriously, ever understand the concept of: You don’t always win the fight? you won when he ran away, chasing him across the map does nothing, hes a thief, your not going to catch him anyways, infact I say he won the fight, because he manages to keep a D/D elementalist out of it for so long.

Now heres where the tongue tie is… say you were losing and ran away, guess what, the thief has “NO CHANCE” to catch you, none, nadda, zip, you have more movement speed, more boons, more vigor, more swiftness, more mobile moves, the thief doesn’t have chill unless we use worthless venoms, or access to cripple unless we give up traits for it and use a crappy weapon set (Pistols.) Shortbow cripple makes us dodge backwards away from you as much as the cripple would slow you down, we have very little CC, we can’t knock you down, we can’t stop you, you can run away any time during the fight, HOW is that fair?

Most thieves keep up to me just fine on my elementalist when using RTL, swiftness and teleport. They always catch me running if I’m trying to get away from the zerg, and I’m fine with that. You are seriously saying thieves have no teleports or mobility traits??? I think you’d better look again, there are so many mobility traits I’d have to spend an hour digging them all up. Thieves are the top of the pack in mobility, though elementalists are very close behind.

Makes sense a low level guy is going to drop low level equipment. I mean thats what they would carry right??

Elementalist downed is overpowered around keeps for sure. Not a problem elsewhere, you can just chase them down and its a sure thing, unlike other classes which can often pull out another trick or two.

Its unbalanced but they arent a tier above thieves and mesmers. Also keep in mind that ele’s had one of the worst states until a month ago, so if you are campaigning for change, dont be disgruntled when it happens.

NightyNight.1823:

That would affect the whole PvE environment.The only thing that needs fixing is culling ,Not Thief.

Yea, I’m talking about a wvwvw only fix. Culling may never be fixed, its a complex problem.

Spartyr.6795:

Rayya.2591:

jportell.2197:

Stop blaming skilled players.

not sure why but i am skilled too !!! only on my thief
i can troll to death an full party of 5 players with my thief , and i will kill them all , by turn at the first mistake.
but i am not skilled on my warrior and guardian cause i got 0 chances to fight vs an 5 players group , ah in fact i got 30% chance to surive vs 2 players with 1 of those classes and 95% with my thief vs 5 players
Must be skill related

Maybe you haven’t tried Elementalist?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wfq5nsj4lfs

I play elementalist also, but vs a good thief, theres barely a thing you can do.

As for the vid, these people just panic and jam buttons, I didnt see one person use any effective cc. Also the thieves I see in this vid… well.. I can see them.

The exploiters attack before rendering, appear only for half a second or less and stealth/dodge away. There is no way to hit them aside from a very well timed occassional aoe. This video doesnt show fights against any thieves that have a clue.

edit: Also I should mention thieves can catch me just fine playing d/d elementalist, and I have no problem with that. The culling/stealth exploit has to stop however.

Laika.8795:

Why should stealth break on damage if it’s as impossible to damage the thief in stealth as you make it out to be?

Just because you don’t see numbers (or something), and I propose you should, doesn’t mean it’s not happening, and this is what everyone fails to see.

So no, it’s not an “interesting idea” it’s a class destroying idea, and if you played a thief you could get your bearings straight and perhaps have a clue, rather than blindly calling for nerfs.

You’re exaggerating, its challenging but you can get the odd hit in. Just not enough to make a difference at present. You’re advocating having the game broken for everyone, not just thieves.

Daemonne.5018:

It seem that people are coming up with all these ideas when culling and rendering seem to be the real problem.
What’s going to end up happening is they’ll get fixed with the addition of some nerf to stealth which will break the stealth feature from overcompensation.
Fix Culling/Rendering issues first and see where it stands from there.

They may never fix culling/rendering or for a very long time. Fixes are needed now.

The issue is with culling and stealth, it allows for near constant exploitation of the culling bug using stealth.

Until this can be fixed they’ll need to adjust the stealth mechanic. It is not working as intended.

As for the OP, many thieves can strike and already be out of the immediate area by the time a person sees them and starts to react, making aoe very hit and miss.

If culling cant be fixed immediately, wvwvw stealth mechanics must change as a priority. Too many people are affected by this aspect and no class exploits it anywhere near the degree of the thief, which is near constant exploitation.

Thieves do not render long enough to cast a 3/4 sec sigil if they choose. I’ve experimented with a thief in the area for a while and after 10 attempts could not target and get this off.

With the mobility they have its extremely hard to aoe, and since they are invisible there is no feedback as to how I am doing to even try to get better.

In wvwvw at least, the revealed debuff needs to go up as a bare minimum, I would say a second should be added at the least.

Stealth breaking on damage is an interesting idea. I think it only needs to be WvWvW however, as this is where stealth+culling is a “game-breaking” combination.

I agree that defining aoe vs direct is moot, since all my melee attacks hit multiple and thus I dont have any strict direct damage attacks, except with cast times which cant be cast on an area with no target.

I’m getting more and more discouraged by this everytime I log in and I can almost see my screen oozing with disgust everytime a theif shows up in wvwvw at how obviously broken this is. People wandering around confused as an invisible untouchable enemy just starts chewing them up with zero recourse. sPvP might be fine but the culling problem in WvWvW is game breaking. The class should be shut off for now, or a drastic change in wvwvw stealth mechanics.

AOEs dont work, tried. Cant tell what the thief is doing to avoid since hes well, invisible, but their mobility and dodging is best in game anyway. Cant cast, my sigil has a 3/4 sec cast time, they dont render long enough to get that off even trying 10 times in a row literally. And you know its futile since if you ever do get the upper hand they can always just disappear for good and come back later.

Getting ready to put this game on the shelf for a while.

Human, just cause the wife doesnt want to be hanging with some shorty. Otherwise I might have gone asuran for the elites. Also against Asuran is the race asthetic, dont care for them at all.

I have a norn mesmer already, the chars running animation gets to me. Sylvari is possible too but the voices arent my favorite.

Pretty happy with my choice.

I wouldnt want to run around with 11k health and 1k toughness, but its entertaining to see what you could do for damage.

I always thought the instas in s/d air attunement where the best part of that build, he’s taken it a nice step beyond. I’m sure something about this will get nerfed.

Asurans look far too goofy and cartoon like. I really hate the asthetics of the class, although I have come to accept them over time.

Burns will not stack effect. All conditions act consistently, for instance bleeds always stack effect instead of duration.

It makes burns more suseptable to removal, but the damage from burn is much higher than an individual bleed, so right off that bat its doing very good damage.

What I get curious about is how it applies the condition stat if the burn is from multiple sources, is it averaged or does it actually each application??

How does air elemental randomly give you swiftness boon? Wish the elementals abilities were listed somewhere

amiable.4823:

KirinDave.6451:

Because seriously, you have no idea what “bad” traits are like until you look at Necromancer Death Magic or Engineer Inventions. Did you know until just recently Engineers were dropping 30 in Alchemy for a GM trait that granted ONE extra might when using alchemy utilities and toolbelt skills. Meanwhile Elementalists are asking, “Is one might per spellcast really worth it?”

So much this. As an engineer who recently re-rolled to an elementalist I can honestly say you folks do not know how awesome you have it. Skills that work! Multiple synergies! The cannonical 0/10/0/30/30 build is awesome, but there is a LOT of room for other viable (if not quite as efficient) builds. I just rolled my elementalist 5 days ago and I am already up to level 55 with a S/D build that I am probably going to take into 80 for PvE and WvW. I can already self combo myself for 12 might stacks (this is without sigils, etc….) pretty much constantly. As an engineer I got used to kit switching, so I am constantly changing attunements without difficulty. It is just such a joy to play a non-broken class.

LOL you’re still in the honeymoon stage, but I hear you. I rolled elementalist because everyone was saying they were the most underpowered class and that was only a month or so ago. This forum was filled with crying, its changed a LOT. I dont know why, its not like we got that uber buffed. I think a positive mindset is key, and wanting to unravel all the synergies, because there are many many many.

The great thing about ele’s is the weapons all play so differently. I’ve fallen back in love with D/D. All I will do for sieges now is swap in frost bow, otherwise I dont touch the staff which I used to swap out constantly.

The best thing about focus is dropping fire wall on a bridge before the enemies and muttering “you shall not pass!”. They usually seem quite fearful of it too!

I have both at 80 and glad I went mesmer first but depends on how you want to play. If you want to hang back with a group mainly and do big aoes I’d say elementalist. If you want to solo/duo more then mesmer. Both classes must be actively played but mesmer doesnt make you work as hard and is pretty cool in its own right.

Note: unless you play staff elementalist is not a traditional mage!!

I think the plan was to find an equilibrium from the beginning and stay there. Its an excellent system.

I miss the daoc lag, I felt psychic when I noticed even a tinge of lag and could predict enemies coming into visible range a good 5-10 seconds before they could be seen. Could tell about how many by the amount of lag too.

The slide shows were bad however, trying to climb ladders was often an exercise in frustration lol.

I’d prefer if they just used simplified models and filled them in as bandwidth allowed. Invisible is no good.

I was a big focus fan, but the loss of RTL is too great, that skill is important in both offense and defense. Also the offhand dagger earth skills are some of the best an elementalist gets.

Dont get me wrong, I like focus, but its a little too defensive. The earth skills there are also great in a defensive sense. To win one must bring the offense however, unless you are playing more a support role in which case it rocks.

I’d rather have the enemies on the defensive in which case the shock and awe of offhand dagger is required.

Mainly the fire 30 pt trait got buffed to make it quite good for a might stacking spec. Other than that most ele’s didnt really see any kind of buff.

As has been said here, nothing really but bug fixes that affect D/D setup, the buffs help other specs more.

You come across as having an agenda to get d/d nerfed, since logic isnt there. Bringing up Stone splinters really gives you away since not much in dd is 600 range.

Personally I’d like to see something like realm ranks in daoc… very difficult (think years or forever for most) to ding up but worthwhile. Maybe an extra trait slot at a certain level even but mostly a few cool abilities that you can trait instead of your usual.

Could make it as simple as few really high price skill point wise abilities that would take a while to collect them all but realitively easy to get your favorite.

Give me something!! Before I alt again!

Spectors are a bit scarey at first, especially if you’re using lightning arc on your scepter

Use the earth 1 ability if you’re going to autoattack, scroll through the rest to get off the high cd stuff and end there. Worked for me.

Patches havent been kind to elementalists aside from the odd buff. I’m not hopeful.

Its hard to tell without looking at their data but as far as possible buffs I’m thinking that focus could use a buff in the dps department in fire and water, otherwise its just taking away too much to not have offhand dagger. Fire shield needs a buff for its own sake, its very underwhelming.

Nerfs to mist form on fallen is likely (I think its ok but its a potential target), other than that nothing comes to mind as particularly op in its self. Bunker builds are contrary to the spirit of the game but I dont know much about them to say. In wvwvw they arent a large factor anyway.

A large change to conjured weapons mechanics would be welcomed.

Not sure if its meant to be this way but I’ve noticed too that the “ground based” swift buffs dont seem to stack. Probably to avoid people straddling them back and forth and gaining a huge swift stack.

Dont forget you can lower the cd with a trait in water. Its actually the only cantrip I have but since the cd is so low its all I need for a stun break and churn bomb is always fun

quercus.9261:

“So a class with high mobility (and there are several others, like thief and GS warrior) leads a zerg of complete idiots in a circle and this is game breaking?”

I can kind of see this. The distribution of idiocy doesn’t seem entirely random however. It appears that anyone not playing a thief or a DD ele is an idiot

No, anyone in a zerg thats chasing one guy is an idiot is what he means. Been this way since daoc, keep your eyes on the prize and dont go chasing everything that moves. You have more brain power than a house cat, use it.

I’ve seen lots of mediocre elementalists… lots. To zerg in wvwvw you can take the easy road and just staff aoe everything, which is what most ele’s seem to do.

Every once in a while I meet one that makes me fear my class being nerfed however.

But there are exceptional players in pretty much every class that makes me wonder how they heck they pulled that off. Like a necro the other day that had like 10 of us beating on him for a while and downing people. Conventional tactics for beating necros did nothing… very strange.

I agree, make it an option however… if people want high enemy detail they can select, or go for better performance with simplified generic models.

Sceptre suffers from being the middle child, too close to get the really good aoes, too far to get the really big damage. I played Scepter for quite a while and finally switched back to d/d, far more dps.

Although if you play to scepters strengths (fire/earth) its quite good, I just find if I’m up close I can do more with d/d and if I’m far away I can do more with staff so…

Signets too if you have the trait that procs the fire shield, best part of that trait.

I made the switch to scepter some time ago for the extra range. Most of the best stuff about D/D is in the /D anyway, and scepter adds decent range. The abilities arent much to write home about but at least you can do damage without being right in the melee.

The reason I am considering going back to D/D is that when it tends to be longer range I usually just switch to staff anyway, and if I’m doing hit and run I want to hit a little harder. Also switching to aura share spec and shocking aura is the best.

I’m confused, a few weeks ago everyone thought we were underpowered… whats changed????

in most mmos I’ve found the mage class to be easily played by standing back and hitting the nuke button of doom, but the elementalist is much more dynamic and engaging. Theres very little else I want out of a class, from close range to medium to long, its got very cool gameplay.

Although the wife is starting out a new toon so I may have to roll an alt (again), thinking either engineer or necro, hope they dont bore me too much now.

Fittingly enough, water attunement seems to kick butt underwater.

I used d/d and decided I wanted some more range and switched to sceptre some time ago. Its not quite as powerful as d/d imo but it removes a lot of risk and gives much greater flexibility. The advantages seem more to do with wvwvw however as staying back from the zerg can mean life or death quite often.

1. The best advantage of range isnt in the aoes, its in the autoattacks all being 900 range. You can kite quite well with something like signet of water or earth too.

2. The advantage in fire is with building might. You lay down ring of fire (or wall if focus offhand) and quickly call phoenix and tooth. If you have dagger offhand you can switch to earth and carry on. The phoenix has vigor buff and cleansing too so good way to start a fight. Off course you have to be close to make it work this way, but at least you can still use the skills if farther too.

3. Use aoes on people that are channeling or otherwise dont look like they will want to give up and move, or just so crowded that you’re going to catch people regardless. This applies more to wvwvw of course, but in pve you can control where the mob is usually anyway.

4. Air is great to start with sceptre, its all instant fire so blow your load and move on to start. Also with offhand dagger you can do a push back and still be nuking them because range works for you.

5. Earth is very tough with a blind and great toughness buff. Add to that the autoattack is really good esp. if your condition damage is high. This is a good attunement to spend some time in until you think the cooldowns are back in other lines.

6. Water is a bit meh for offense but the trident heal is quite decent. Its where I go after the fight unless maybe to use my off hand dagger skills (frost armor and cleansing water)

The dps is lower than dagger, so my feeling is you MUST pair it with offhand dagger, since there are a lot of nice high dps close range skills to balance things out when the enemy closes ranks. Offhand focus will cause your dps to be intolerably low.

Is that the Norn storyline? If I recall it had a really difficult step around that level, took me many many tries to pull off on my necro. Get a friend to help is my advice.

If I left for anything it would be necro next. I played one in beta and you have to have your wits to you, you win by inches and not miles. Its also got some interesting escapes. Also conditions… yes.

My previous main was a mesmer, try it now and it seems so slow and detached, since your illusions do a lot of work for you, and your #1 attacks are pretty central to your damage.

Engineer also interests me though I know little about them.

So far I dont think theres been a lot of nerfs, just the “fixes” havent worked out for us very well.

Thats pretty bad.. as in I might actually stop playing my elementalist for a bit until they fix it… could cause dangerous levels of frustration.

Guess I could try off hand focus for a bit. :/

I like the ax too, was looking at it for my d/d build since it gives you 900 range. Other than that.. meh.

I understand to just be the 5point trait in each line it works for.

Yep its pretty cheap and a tad overpowered in this respect. But the game is filled with things that synergize like this. Elementalists are pretty supreme in sieges, thats part of the appeal.