Guild Wars 2

It was far from “all about Scarlet” – I wish people would stop over dramatizing Scarlet. She may be a terrible character at least in presentation, but not as much as folks claim is actually tied to her.

As for Kiel and Dessa – Kiel claimed at the beginning that Dessa is a member of the Consortium and wanted to bring her in for questioning about the Consortium’s ties to Mistlock Observatory. Kiel doesn’t seem to understand that Dessa dislikes the Consortium, and takes Dessa’s resistance as Consortium loyalty.

Certain Inquest members – I think engineers – have Diamong Aegis. Naturally Rytlock has a fiery dragon sword. Mad King Thorn has a one-handed Fellblade.

Beyond that I don’t recall any NPCs with HoM weapon skins but it wouldn’t be too surprising if they did. It isn’t like they’re restricted to the PC in lore anyways.

The Crucible of Eternity is the center (underground) complex of the Infinite Coil Reactor, the later being the full complex. There is an NPC – I think a Whispers agent and you must be Whispers to get the dialogue – that states that the Inquest don’t learn and built the Infinite Coil Reactor after Thaumanova. While the Crucible of Eternity is specifically meantioned, the CoE is – as I said – the center part of the Infinite Coil Reactor. To claim it was there before would be like arguing that the basement of a house was present before the house was built when someone said the house was built at a specific time. While possible, it is part of the house so there’s no reason to believe it predates the rest of the house.

Given how Fort Trinity is constructed in less than a few weeks, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Infinite Coil Reactor – which spans the full complex – was built and operational within a few months.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What caused the meltdown exactly?

Per Scarlet’s dialogue, it was the experimenting of chaos magic and/or draconic energy on top of an intersection of ley lines. Though given the fate of CoE (it also melted down, though due to overpowering the reactor by Kudu making himself a dragon champ), it may be simply the study of dragon energy.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Was the Thaumanova built intentionally on top of those ley lines?

The experimentation is what led to the discovery of the ley lines. The existence of ley lines was unknown, but the asura may or may not have known about the area being magical.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Do you folks think the Steam Portal in Lornar’s Pass is also on top of a ley line? It’s one of the few portals that seems stable.

My personal theory is much like Blunk’s – that the teleportation effects may hold ties to the intersection of ley lines. But the argument he holds doesn’t make much sense – arguing that the Chaos Crystal Cavern and Infinite Coil Reactor are on intersections. I think the former of the two is receiving the effects for the reason the Inquest member gives: crystals used at Thaumanova was taken from there and that creates a resonance with the location; Infinite Coil Reactor is receiving the effects for the same reason that Toxal Bog is – the Thaumanova Power Core or similar effects were taken there (that is to say, what ended up going haywire at Thaumanova was moved to Toxal Bog and later Infinite Coil Reactor). My theory still maintains the notion of teleportation via ley lines, but rather than denoting those places mentioned by Blunk as ley line intersections, the intersections are where the creatures are coming from. Per a thread made by Stephen who looked into the origins of the creatures being teleported, it mainly seems to be Lornar’s Pass, Blazeridge Mountains (ogre lands specifically), and iirc somewhere else.

I do not think “stable portal” is equivilant to ley lines, though. Trying to make such a connection is fallicious since the portals in Thaumanova are not only *un*stable, but a result of chaos magic – not ley lines.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Is the Frost Portal in Frostgorge Sound on top of a ley line?

Doubtful. If you’re arguing this because it’s a portal, then anywhere could be a ley line by that argument – because portals are capable of being made anywhere. Portal != ley line. And we have dozens of places where those blue portals are. Blue portals are, typically, just a sign of a portal into the Mists (and specifically non-Underworld Mists, as the Underworld portals are green). The Frost Portal – and the Lornar’s Pass equivalent which spawns Ice Imps (despite the event claiming icebrood pop through) is the same as the kind of portals that the Sons of Svanir made to enter the Mists in the personal story and at The Frozen Maw.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

What is the link between Subject Alpha (Crucible of Eternity), Subject 6 (Thaumanova) and Subject 7 (Queen’s Gauntlet)?

Not sure how Subject Alpha ties into it, but I can only presume that Subject 7 is another attempt at the study which made Subject 6. I don’t think Alpha holds a tie to the other two, given the other two are oozes while Alpha was a multi-dragon minion. If there were a “Subject Beta” so to speak, it’d be Kudu’s Monster without a doubt – and arguably Kudu as a Subject Delta (or whatever a third version would be). It should be noted that, chronologically, Subject 6 predates Subject Alpha should Alpha have been made in the Infinite Coil Reactor.

The mail is about an influx of players, I think. The whole promotion of joining the game one can see on the main site. An in-universe way of showing “hey, we got new playwrs!”

Because apparently ArenaNet cares so much about their advertising that they’d advertise the game in ridiculous ways and even make a cab and roleplay being taxi drivers from Tyria…

Narcemus.1348:

Willing to bet Konig?

Hahaha.

No.

Ceara wasn’t kicked from the Inquest, technically speaking. She got kicked out of Rata Sum by the Peacemakers.

Should be noted that she wasn’t called Scarlet Briar until after the experiment with Omadd, meaning that her presence in Thaumanova would be post-being kicked out of Rata Sum.

Nonetheless, she could have remained a member of the Inquest after having been framed by Teyo and kicked out of Rata Sum. Which would be supported by the presence of the Inquest in Aetherblade Retreat.

I am happy with the outcome. Better than them screwing up the Fall of Abaddon by adding in a “Scarlet did it!” to that as well.

At least Scarlet’s placement in Thaumanova Fractal makes some sense, even if it feels a bit shoehorned in. And it gives a good amount of lore – in both answers and questions – which the Fall of Abaddon likely wouldn’t have touched.

And admit it, the Fall of Abaddon fractal would never had amounted to your expectations of the actual happenings. A fractal for that would just not do the event any amount of proper justice. Especially a fractal created as part of the bi-weekly LS “bug-central” updates.

That seems unlikely. There’s no reason to believe the Inquest hold any influence over Mistlock, for starters. Plus a fractal being created to copy a fractal is just… odd. The Mists makes the fractals, so it would be a case of the Mists copying itself which is unprecedented.

Possible, but seems far-fetched to me.

I’d say a few weeks prior to the start of the game, which seems to be early 1325 AE. We don’t have a real timeframe for the rate of the personal story’s progression and ArenaNet has made it a point to really mess up the chronology of the personal story/living story/dungeon stories – or at least create a lack of clarity on the order of events. All we know is that the game started out in 1325 AE, and we’re now in 1326 AE with heavy implications that the personal story ended within 1325 (so start to finish was less than a year). There’s implications that the norn tutorial was in winter (which would mark it as 1324 AE given the Mouvelian calendar in that New Years aka Wintersday is the first day of spring – the equivalent of our March 20th-ish – but given the ArenaNet attitude towards the calendar in a now-not-so-recent interview with Angel McCoy, it seems that in the entire development of GW2 they had completely forgotten about the Mouvelian calendar and its functioning so the reliability of “in winter”=“end of the year” is completely kitten upon).

So in the end I’d say Thaumanova exploded early 1325 or late 1324 AE.

Reminded me of these guys personally. Both made out of yellow lightning, humanoid, threw spears.

I honestly would not be surprised if the Inquest had captured a djinn and prisoned it in the reactor’s core. It wouldn’t be the first time djinn got imprisoned to empower a device (see Iron Forgeman from GW1). And speaking of the Iron Forgeman, it was studied by Oola, and a lot of Inquest work is similar to Oola’s later work. Coincidence? I think not!

• Will never truly work. There’d be nothing even close to a consensus and any villain thought up by the audience will always be infinitely superior than a writer’s recreation of the villain. It is best for ArenaNet to make their own villains. They honestly had good villains made for GW2 – the issue is that they killed half of them off (Ajax, Gaheron, many other folks from dungeons or personal story plots) before they could be properly fleshed and given better spotlighting.
• They actually stated that they want to improve on this quality. And if you note: we were told that the Tower of Nightmares plot’s finale would be part of Fractals. However, the anti-toxin bar is only half-full (at least on SoR server but I’m pretty sure the bar is cross-server). Something tells me that the finale will only come about when enough folks have repeated the Hybrid instance overall. So that is player-created. The threat won’t go away until enough players inject enough anti-toxin.
• Can’t disagree but I would note that relatable villains are not the only way to make good villains. Honestly, those villains are the “easy way out” villains are more often than not fodder for eventual anti-hero characters (aka redeemed villains who later fight for good).
• Fully agree. We’re getting too little too slowly. And most of the juiciest parts (probably about 80% of it) is not in the game. And of what is in the game, it’s mostly hidden away – which isn’t bad but with the temporary nature of the LS, it often isn’t seen.
• Depends on how it’s done. I hadn’t really liked many of the cinematics in the personal story – for example, in the Vigil path for invading Cursed Shore, there’s a cinematic where Deborah is attacked and Beirne goes in and sacrifices himself – meanwhile the player and other NPCs are doing… nothing, apparently. Just sitting and letting it happen. But on the flip side, if it’s something that the player character shouldn’t be witnessing, it again depends on how it’s done – it has to be placed properly to show a good reveal without spoiling too much.

I know this sounds REALLY weird given my stance on the prelude to Tower of Nightmares. But I got a feeling this might not be Scarlet. And I don’t think it deals with ley lines – why introduce a story plot that revolves around something that had a 50/50 % chance of being known to players immediately after that reveal? The major aspects of the plots were made months ahead even before development began so the concept for these things would predate the voting outcome in development standards.

It’s not a strong feeling mind you.

skullmount.1758:

ghost.3208:

I believe one of those portals spawned some Ascalonians… And well those guys are not in Scarlet’s army (I think, I’ll have to redo it to check carefully).

Well they aren’t yet. I’m sure they’ll do some kind of alliance with something.

So you’re arguing that Scarlet will have skritt, icebrood, Aatxes, ancient now-dead Ascalonians as various alliances?

Besides the fact that only the Flame Legion and arguably the Thorn Wolves that spawn are part of the alliances she eventually made, that’s just two of the six groups involved. And there wasn’t a single steam creature (that I saw) nor any pirates, krait, dredge, or Twisted Clockwork present.

Arc DLad.2194:

she said something along the lines of “hmm they made a miscalculation but i see the error” and now she uses the portals for her aethrbladees, molten alliance and clockwork horrors.

That’s not what she said at all. She said: “Reactor approaching critical, panicked evacuation, general mayhem and hysteria…Yep, I’d say my work here is done. Sorry about all the death, and for the portal pandemonium. I told the Inquest chaos energy was a misnomer. Mind you, dragon energy is tricky, so I can see how they flubbed it. At least they helped identify the network of magical channels that crisscross the globe. That was a breakthrough. Now we know how NOT to do this kind of research right on an intersection of those channels. Live and learn, right? That’s progress. Hooray for progress! Ooh, but it’s getting a bit too deady in here for me. ’Bye now!” No where did she say “I know where they went wrong.” Just that she realized how they messed it up. And she learned about the ley lines.

Risingashes.8694:

Can I offer an alternative? Rather than her ‘character’ being poor- isn’t it really the way she’s presented.

Same thing.

Risingashes.8694:

She’s shunned by her equals, and shuns those who actually respect her.

Wait, what? She’s not shunned by anyone. That’s part of why her character is poor. Every NPC seems to do what she says, regardless of how stubborn or xenophobic they are otherwise presented to be.

Risingashes.8694:

She knows horrible secrets to the point where the only way to function is to turn everything in to a game.

That’s more of just her pure insanity. And yes, it’s officially stated that she’s bonkers.

Risingashes.8694:

We know nothing about her history

We actually know a good bit about her history. Most of it, in fact, up to the point where she started calling herself Scarlet Briar.

zwierz.9012:

Umm, Konig, doesn’t Dessa refer to the deceased Inquest guys as her ex krewe mates (at least the female one for sure), thus hinting strongly towards the idea that Dessa herself was Inquest at least for some time?

Nothing hints or imply that they were her krewe mates while they were part of the Inquest. We know nothing of their history to assume that Dessa was Inquest because former krewe mates were Inquest at the time of their death.

Do keep in mind the nature of krewes – they disband once the project ends and they join a new krewe. Dessa could have been in 20+ krewes before being part of the Mistlock Observatory.

DarcShriek.5829:

Ley lines are not a recent discovery. If Scarlet was at the explosion, then she’s known of them for a while now and here activities with the Molten alliance and the sky pirates could have been for the purpose of developing the tech needed to exploit the ley lines. This could explain the towers that have suddenly sprung up.

The Thaumanova explosion is recent. Ley lines were discovered just before said explosion.

Ergo, the discovery of ley lines is recent. Less recent for Scarlet (and possibly the Inquest) but still recent.

Durzlla.6295:

No… they’re recent… the Thamunova explosion happened very very very close to when the personal story for Asura begins, and seeing as how the personal story is supposed to last ~1-2 years, and at most we’ve had another year since then.

For the purposes of Science and development 3 years is, in every way, recent.

The whole of the personal story takes place within 1325. The timeline begins in 1325 and Zhaitan’s defeat is prior to the Lost Shores which is during 1325 as the following year (the LS of 2013) follows the events of 1326 AE. And we know that Forging the Pact to The Source of Orr is just “several weeks.” Just to clarify.

By that name? No. But it was rather clear that there was some force behind Shiro and possibly the Fortune Teller. The mention by Suun after Shiro’s defeat that I quoted before as well as the following line from An Empire Divided: “But somewhere along the way, dark forces corrupted Shiro Tagachi, forces that he sought out against the laws of his empire and his gods. He learned the ways of forbidden sorcery and engaged in studies and rituals well beyond the disciplines of the Assassin. He found that these taboo powers were second nature to him, and the darkest forms of magic were the easiest of all.” all pretty much screamed “there’s someone behind Shiro’s actions!”

Honestly, initially I thought it to be Dhuum. It could have easily have been someone or something else behind the Teller. But my point is that it was known that someone was behind Shiro. Who it was wasn’t revealed until Nightfall. Nonetheless, it is a fact that Abaddon was no more retconned into being behind Shiro as Scarlet was retconned into being behind the Molten Alliance – unlike your claim.

I’m not exactly understanding what you’re asking. The Thaumanova explosion was the reactor having a meltdown due to experimentations on chaos magic and dragon energy on top of an intersection of magical ley lines. The effects are what we see in Metrica: you get bizarre environments, poisonous magic energy, random teleportation of creatures, etc.

We still do not know the exact nature of the effects caused (why are the creatures being teleported in seemingly isolated to a select handful of locations?), though now we know what happened to cause the meltdown. I do got theories on it, which was actually rather close to this post but I would rather investigate before spouting them out.

On a side: I think I’m going to, for now on, ignore any post directly calling me out for answers to a question. I am hardly a master of lore and I am far from the only person who can answer such questions.

I do not disagree with your statement there Obisidian, and if you read my full post you’d realize that I even mentioned that as a possibility. But they didn’t retcon Abaddon in or shoehorn in him or whatever. They created a space for him, and they created that “man behind the curtain” – Abaddon existed at the time, but yet “Abaddon” did not exist.

It’s a Schrödinger’s cat kind of situation. They created some mysterious threat-behind-the-threat figure, but they didn’t specify it. This gave them leeway for what direction to go with it, but the figure was there. Abaddon had existed in lore since before Faction’s release – with the changes to Tombs of the Primeval Kings. It’s just that the figure which became Abaddon was not yet called Abaddon, to players at least and likely in development.

So it was no retcon or what-have-you for Shiro’s case. It can arguably be so for Khilbron’s and the Titan’s case (though without comment from the developers, we cannot really be absolutely certain). It’s just that – like the figure behind the Molten Alliance – we knew there was some kind of threat there. We just didn’t have a name or face for it.

“Abaddon” existed no later than December 2005 (first mentions of Tomb of the Primeval Kings’ changes). But “Abaddon” did not exist until August 2006 (Nightfall’s release). Schrödinger’s cat situation.

Actually, Blurk, I would argue that the Infinite Coil Reactor is likely to not be built atop those ley lines. Thaumanova failed because it was built atop the ley lines and the Infinite Coil Reactor was built after the Thaumanova explosion as its successor.

Also, there’s no creatures being teleported in at the Infinite Coil Reactor. Unless you’re referring to the creatures just south of it where the Inquest were, once again, experimenting with chaos magic. While your theory of teleprotation between intersections is interesting, that kind of argues against it. Inquest aren’t exactly idiots to make the same mistake twice about performing a failed experiment without altering why the experiment failed the first time. Furthermore, creatures teleport into Toxal Bog in Brisban Wildlands – this is due to the research that was saved from Thaumanova being brought just north of Toxal Bog (it’s even a skill point – Thaumanova Energy Core I think it’s called).

Sons.5493:

We know that the Jotun belived that when a new star is born and elder dragon is born too, at least i remember it that way.

Wrong.

The birth of stars indicate a passing of the ages. They do not affect the events on Tyria. The last time the Elder Dragons awoke matches the last time a star was born (and recorded). Stars are born every 10,000 years according to Varra’s research.

“It shows that the awakening of the dragons is a natural and cyclical thing. The stars only indicate the passing ages. They do not determine events here.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Varra_Skylark

This invalidates pretty much the rest of your hypothesis.

Sons.5493:

Now let’s talk about the hybrid, biologically created creature with sentinent abilities capable of evolving, interesting. The toxic nightmare court standing at the end of the Nightmares within finall stance says something like this when the creature evolves: Look at what’ve done, we finally made it which heavily implies that they have been trying for a while but what’s the real propouse of this creature?

Not quite.

Toxic Bulwark: We’ve done it. Oh look what we’ve made.
Toxic Damoss: At last!

The Nightmare Courtier (the Bulwark) makes mention that they’ve made the Hybrid. The krait (the Damoss) comments “at last” as in “at last our Prophet is here” or some such. The krait have been waiting a long time for the return of their Prophets, and they believe the Hybrid is one.

Sons.5493:

Now we look at Tequatl’s unexplained new gained powers, how? Zhaitan is supposedly dead and there’s now way he would become stronger with zhaitan dead but what if scarlet managed to create some “energy” similar to the one found when a star is born and she managed to infuse Tequatl with it.

Why can’t Tequatl become stronger with Zhaitan’s defeat? Note that nothing actually confirms Zhaitan is dead, just that he was defeated. Furthermore, even if Zhaitan was dead, his magic didn’t just disappear. Like Glint’s corpse, Zhaitan’s corpse would be full of magic. Who’s to say that magic wouldn’t go to the top ranking champions (the dragons like Tequatl)?

We don’t know nearly enough about the Elder Dragons and how their magic functions between minions and the dragon, let alone with an Elder Dragon’s death, to claim that “there’s no way [Tequatl] would get stronger with Zhaitan dead.”

Sons.5493:

You make fair points, but how did Tequatl get stronger? (Anet stated it was related to lore)!

But they didn’t state it was tied to Scarlet.

I think that the lore behind the Zephyrites will have more connections to Tequatl’s power boost than Scarlet. Or the mention by one of the tengu: That the Elder Dragons have not yet made their move.

Atlas.9704:

According to most threads they were in Snowden, Diessa, and I’ve seen at least one in Gendarran. So it is safe to say these are peppered through the maps.

Seen and heard of some in Harathi Hinterlands, Straits of Devastation, and Cursed Shore.

A thread was made not too long ago.

Tupi.2967:

Abaddon = Chaos Energy,
thats the link with Scarlet Briar. Maybe she would take control of Dessa Engine to study Abaddon and we would try to prevent this.

I fail to see how Abaddon = Chaos Energy. If any of the gods holds ties to chaos magic, it is Lyssa, not the god of secrets and water.

There was never anything tied to chaos about Abaddon.

Obsidian.1328:

Darmikau.9413:

-snip-

Oh I agree they are very different in character and motives. My point was simply that the same people who gave us “Abaddon’s behind everything” are the same ones who gave us Scarlet. Up until EotN or perhaps Nightfall, there was nothing in the lore that implied Abaddon was behind Shiro(and I mean indirectly through the fortuneteller), the Titans, or the Cataclysm. That stuff was inserted into the lore post-script. The core of the dev team now got their start with Nightfall and EotN. If you look at it that way Scarlet makes more sense, unfortunately so.

The issue – as I see it – is less that Scarlet is behind everything, and more that Scarlet is just a poor quality character. People, mistakenly, say that Scarlet being behind things is the bad part when it’s not – not entirely.

The huge difference between “Abaddon did it” and “Scarlet did it” is that what Abaddon was behind was all the demonic attacks – or rather, the major demonic attacks. And this made sense – he was imprisoned in the Mists, in a realm which the demons would thrive in. Scarlet, however, is behind alliances that don’t really make sense (krait + Nightmare Court) and is presented without any faults. Abaddon had faults, had strengths, and had redeeming value. Scarlet just has strengths. That is the biggest difference, alongside the fact that what Scarlet is behind doesn’t make sense half the time.

Scarlet being part of Thaumanova actually does make sense. People are kittening and moaning about her ties to Thaumanova because her character is so poor.

As to Abaddon being behind Shiro: not entirely so. As early as the development of Factions, ArenaNet had given indications of a powerful force behind events – the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, Dragon Festival’s invasion, and Shiro. Suun outright states that there was something more at stake than we had knowledge of with Shiro’s threat. Abaddon wasn’t really shoehorned in – no more than Scarlet was with the Molten Alliance. In both cases, we knew there was an underlying forces, we just didn’t know who or what it was – and it’s possible that ArenaNet hadn’t finalized what was that underlying force just yet. But we knew there was some underlying force nonetheless.

Abaddon was only put in behind the events of Prophecies (Khilbron and Titans specifically). He was always behind t he events of things after Prophecies.

biggs.4702:

We had already guessed they were trying to work with elder dragon energies based on parallels to the Crucible of Eternity.

But at least we got confirmation. Before, it was only speculation.

biggs.4702:

All we learned or can guess from this fractal are the following:

POSSIBLE SPOILERS – DON’T READ IF YOU HAVEN’T DONE THE THAUMANOVA FRACTAL
What we knowDessa was once a member of the Inquest. Mistlock Observatory itself is a fractal. Scarlet advised the Inquest in their research and they didn't listen to her, but somehow maybe that was her plan all along (because isn't it always?).

And I think that’s it.

That’s a pretty puny lore payoff in my opinion.

Am I wrong? Did I miss something? I sure hope so, because otherwise, I’m not thrilled. Sure the fractal itself is fun, but I wanted a juicier bit of lore to go with it.

You are very wrong.

Firstly, nothing says Dessa was former Inquest – just that she knows folks who were Inquest. We also learn:

• Dessa cannot leave the Mistlock Observatory, and we learned what happens if she tries. We also know that she didn’t know Thaumanova had exploded (not too surprising).
• There’s the nature of the Thaumanova Anomaly to question.
• There’s Subject 6 – likely connected to Subject 7 from the Queen’s Gauntlet.
• There’s the ley lines, though we knew they existed we now got in-game mention of them, as well as a location where they criss-cross and by extension knowledge that they aren’t at the Infinite Coil Reactor, and we also know what happens if you experiment with chaos magic/dragon energy (and/or) over them. This is perhaps the most important aspect.
• We know what caused the explosion (the above experimentation on top of ley lines).
• There’s also that odd shining sphere at the end of the fractal to question.

We get just as many questions as we do answers.

draxynnic.3719:

One of the things that Thaumanova is associated with is opening portals that suck creatures in from random places. One of the things that Scarlet is associated with is opening portals that spit her minions out into seemingly random places, within a specific general area. Could Scarlet’s ability with portals have been developed through her observations of what was happening at Thaumanova – basically having found a way to deliberately do what has been happening by accident around the reactor?

Good connection. Most likely, I’d presume. Though the style of portals and teleportation is different.

draxynnic.3719:

Another thing that came up is evidence that Scarlet knows about the system of ley lines around the world. The Inquest might also know this (depends on whether those involved got out) and the globe in the Chantry suggests that the Order of Whispers is also aware. Knowledge of these ley lines might also be a factor in her portals (in fantasy, one of the things ley lines are sometimes used for is travel, including teleportation, and if the OoW has a similar ability, it would explain how they’ve remained in communication with Elona) or it could be an indication that whatever her future plans might be involve those ley lines in some fashion.

Nothing really supports the claim that the globe in the Chantry shows ley lines.

Given Scarlet’s dialogue, the ley line bit is a very recent discovery. That globe seems to be older than the Thaumanova explosion which is very very recent. I wouldn’t doubt that no one but Scarlet knew about the ley lines… until now. Kiel will share the findings, and others will find out and begin looking into them.

Her dialogue doesn’t really imply intending to use the ley lines. Just discovery of their existence.

draxynnic.3719:

Which, interestingly, leads up to those towers that have been seen across Tyria with electrical fields and “do not touch” warnings around them. What if those are part of someone’s plans involving the ley lines – either Scarlet looking to tap them in some manner, or someone else finally managing to steal the initiative and acting to prevent her from doing so?

Would seem a bit weird, given how new the information of ley lines is. Unless they’re Scarlet or Inquest made, I don’t think there’s a tie. Moreso if none is around Thaumanova.

DarcShriek.5829:

I haven’t done the fractal so please be patient.
1.) It appears in the fractal that she is referred to as Scarlet, this can mean that either the explosion occurs after the short story, or it’s a variation due to the nature of fractals.
2.) I can’t disagree with your position here.
3.) To me, time travel is a possibility. I say this because time travel appears to be available in game which is demonstrated by the infinity ball story. Scarlet may know of the Infinity Ball due to comments made in the krait tower. Of course, those comments may have only been imagined.

so, one more question.

4.) what does Scarlet hope to gain from these ley lines? What is she looking for? How does the toxin fit?

1) She’s called Scarlet Briar in the fractal, but honestly that’s not saying too much.
3) She comments on every chapter 2 personal storyline… storyline. So that’s likely part of what Marjory and Kasmeer talk about in one of the instances – that she’s somehow manipulating the hallucinations to prone into your thoughts exclusively. That is to say, those lines are hallucinatory. Her statement about the Infinity Ball holds no ground in actually knowing about it. There is still zero evidence or support for Scarlet being a time traveler.
4) Who says she intends to gain anything from the ley lines? She just mentioned that the failed experiment showed that they exist. Meaning that they’re a recent discovery that may not even be known to most.

The Artesian Waters held natural magic that attracted the Six Gods (according to the Cathedral of Silence personal story step). Even if the OoW showed only major lines, it should have something over Orr. It would be hard to believe that a location of magic so powerful it drew the Six Gods from across the Mists is not only not a ley line location, but not an intersection of ley lines.

If you read this thread, you’d have seen the developer post in which it got confirmed that Uncategorized Fractal is not Rata Sum.

It isn’t Crucible of Eternity either, because that place’s shape – the exterior complex actually called the Infinite Coil Reactor – is different than Uncategorized Fractal. The Crucible of Eternity itself was a subterranean complex. I don’t know what “cubes toppled over” you refer to. The place, like many asuran structures, was built in cubic shapes with a corner pointed up, and another into the ground. They may look “toppled over” but they aren’t. The place isn’t a mess either. I don’t see why the pillars at the entrance look odd either – maybe they weren’t needed elsewhere?

Either way, the Infinite Coil Reactor, which is a recent and partially incomplete structure, was never floating. Nor does it match in any way shape or form Uncategorized – even the materials are completely different.

Also: Mount Maelstrom is NOT part of Maguuma Jungle. It is for the explorer achievement only. But it isn’t in lore. That’s a mechanics versus lore situation.

Durzlla.6295:

well the main issue is that if you were fighting the anomaly with her she’d most likely be dead because once that thing goes down the whole reactor blows.

That actually isn’t an issue at all.

Fractals are imperfect re-creations.

Hell, can we even be 100% certain Scarlet was even at Thaumanova truly? Answer: Nope.

Arewn.2368:

If they started work on the fractal in august (as they recently stated they did), the part where they actually implemented Scarlet in there was far off from August.

Depends on when they get the voice acting done for the releases. If they get it done the first month, then no it would be done during August. if they get it done in the first or second month into – this case being September or October – then it would have been off from August.

However, in this particular case, to play the Devil’s Advocate, do keep in mind that initial responses were mixed between “she’s awful” and “she’s great” with a good deal of the latter changing their minds because the qualities they like make her a 5-minute wonder (because she lacks depth). Thanks to the break we had from her in September, ArenaNet couldn’t pull meaningful long-lasting feedback about Scarlet until Twilight Assault had passed, meaning mid-October was when they got better feedback thanks to that break. Meaning that if they were past the no-going-back point for the fractal at that point, then they couldn’t change it even if they wanted to.

Initial feedback only goes so far in being valuable, because a lot of people tend to have a new view on things upon a return – initial feedback is too heavily influenced by expectations they had going in, and the content being compared to said expectations rather than being judged for its own worth.

Thobek.1730:

I also want to hear about these “reveals” from Dunan Atreides. What did I miss that was so revealing to the mystery of the Thaumanova Reactor??

Quite a lot, actually. Most are just new questions to be asked, though.

• Dessa’s nature and the whole “she cannot leave” concept, and a bit of her history. Some answers, some questions.
• Thaumanova was indeed studying dragon energy as was theorized.
• In-game mention of the ley lines, as well as one location about where they criss-cross, and on top of that the kind of things that can happen if you experiment with powerful or uncontrollable magic (dragon energy/chaos magic respectively) on top of these ley lines (or at least where they criss-cross). The explosion was caused by the experiments happening on the ley lines, not the experiments themselves.
• Thaumanova’s Anomaly – the end boss. This is mainly a question: experimentations on chaos magic and dragon energy for some reason results in a humanoid lightning-made being? Possibly a djinn (it resembled the air djinns from Nightfall – who were paragons, thus spear throwers much like the Anomaly) or possibly something else.
• That giant shining orb at the very end where you get the chest.
• Subject 6 – whom functions like Subject 7 from the Queen’s Gauntlet. Gives a bit of possible history of Subject 7.

And that’s just the obvious stuff. Scarlet was there for maybe 30 seconds, and her ties was only that she was the specialist brought in, and didn’t bother to stop the explosion – possibly even tampered with it to push it to the brink.

spiritus.7983:

how old is scarlet anyway? must be less then 20 years. I think the pale tree is 20 years old. Never did fractals but I heared she pop in the last fractals update, she even was alive back then?… not to mention if was the abandon fractals, lol. fractals suppose to be old?.. I’m bad at lore :/

The sylvari race is 24 years old now (current year being 1326). And she’s not a Firstborn, and unlikely to be Secondborn. Her history points to at least 15 years of age, and the Secondborn are roughly 7 years younger than the Firstborn (exact # of years unknown).

We don’t know when the Thaumanova exploded, but it was a recent event. Likely happened in 1324 if not 1325 (same year the game began). So yes, Scarlet was alive when Thaumanova exploded. Unlike the Fall of Abaddon, it is not an ancient event.

Risingashes.8694:

What if: Instead of Scarlet appearing for 5 seconds and monologue-ing at the end of the fractal we were escorted through the instance by a young Sylvari called Ceara. Fresh out of the academy we and Ceara battle through the facility to get her to the core, that she explains she has the knowledge to prevent from going supernova.

She helps us with tips for the puzzles, and explains why a Sylvari is in a place you’d expect only to have Asura (actually get some of that short story in to the game).

You battle the anomaly with Ceara’s help. She explains that the facility was built too close to magic laylines, and future facilities should be built as far away as possible.

You bid the helpful Sylvari farewell, and are able to talk to her after the rest of the party leaves for some backstory/foreshadowing.

Would have definitely preferred this.

If the explosion was that old (she hasn’t been Ceara for a few years).

I didn’t pay too much attention to the sky but I could have sworn there was a ceiling.

In other news:

What do other folks think of the final room after defeating the Anomaly? That enclosed room with a giant sphere of light (which you enter in order to get back to Mistlock Observatory in story mode) where you get your chest.

That and the anomaly itself were perhaps the most interesting aspects of the fractal to me. Subject 6’s appearance – compared to Subject 7 in the Queen’s Gauntlet with similar (but more) functionalities was also interesting; proves the common thought that Subject 7 is tied to the Inquest like Subject Alpha was true.

On another note, Scarlet’s dialogue seems to confirm the theory that Thaumanova was studying draconic energies too: “I told the Inquest chaos energy was a misnomer. Mind you, dragon energy is tricky, so I can see how they flubbed it.” Furthermore, it seems that the chaos magic they’re studying is the dragon energy – one and the same. Which makes me wonder which dragon they took the energy from, or if the chaos magic is a result of multiple dragons’ energy.

Also calls into question the nature of the anomaly, given the place studied chaos magic and dragon energy.

Dialogue implies that the explosion is no more than weeks – at most months – old by the point of the game’s release (1325). Naturally since everything’s stuck in time until touched by the Living Story, even a year later they act like it’s just as recent.

But as Aaron said for the explosion in relation to Dessa’s age. What would be more beneficial is knowing the age of Thaumanova.

Side note: Secondborn came out 6-7 years after Firstborn, I believe. We didn’t get a set year after, but I think 7 was implied heavily. Though I may be misremembering “several” for “seven.”

Either way, though, your Theory B is more or less what I theorized.

So notes about Dessa to consider:

• She had an ex-boyfriend who was part of the Consortium
• She views Lion’s Arch as a place for pirates.
• She doesn’t know what sylvari are.
• She holds a strange reaction to the Uncategorized Fractal.
• She knew people who worked at Thaumanova Reactor.
• She cannot leave Mistlock Observatory; if she tries, the place seems to ‘reset’ and she looses all memory of the visitors.

This shows that:
She’s likely no less than 20-some years old in the world of Tyria, and likely not much older either, giving enough time to not know sylvari (as they wouldn’t have been known for a while after their birth in 1302 AE) but to know folks who worked in Thuamanova when it exploded recently. However, her view of Lion’s Arch points her to being older. We don’t really know how old the Consortium are so that’s not helpful – if we had an age for the two folks she knew at Thaumanova, then it’d be more helpful. Asura can live to roughly 100 years with ease, so we can safely place her as having lived between 1200 and 1300, all dependent on the age of the two at Thaumanova.

The Dessa that we know is likely just a Fractal re-creation, rather than the original person.

My theory:

The original “Mistlock Observatory” was part of what the Uncategorized Fractal was. She died during the Uncategorized Fractal but was ‘recreated’ by the Mists when the place was remade. She somehow escaped to the Mistlock Observatory and because she’s just a memory recreation cannot leave the Mists (if such things could escape, then we may end up having infinite copies of the same person leaving the Mists). Her reactions to the Uncategorized Fractal, as well as why it’s “Uncategorized” is due to post-traumatic stress disorder.

I have just done the fractal and I am completely AMAZED that people are so hung up about Scarlet. She is so minor in the fractal!

But anyways, to Darc’s three questions:

1) The reactor explosion could have been prior to her sensory deprivation device. Also keep in mind that she “didn’t see what she thought she saw” and we were told that she was put in a sensory deprivation device. This means that she might not have actually seen the Eternal Alchemy and thus wouldn’t know everything.
2) Her dialogue implies that she at least didn’t do anything to stop it.
3) Nothing about her implies she can time travel. She was part of the Inquest, so it isn’t doubtful that she would be a special consultant while part of the Inquest.

@Aaron: We only saw that lab underneath. We never saw what was up above it.

@Eluveitie: I didn’t see sky sights. But it’s probably mechanical like being able to see the sky from Abaddon’s sunken temple in the story instance.

@FlamingFoxx: The Inquest lab was beneath the city, which is where we go through in Metrica.

We don’t know what the globe in the Chantry represents with those lines. They could be the ley lines.

This is the first in-game mention of the ley lines, but second mention overall. The first mention was in an interview with Angel McCoy.

As to the anomaly – I don’t recall seeing any eyes. It was just a lightning-based human throwing lightning spears by what I saw. But I didn’t get that grand of a look.

A few things questioned in the OP not touched upon:

• Primordus was the cause of the Destroyers – they are his minions. Though in GW1 they were directed and directly made by the Great Destroyer, they acted in the favor of Primordus.
• Primordus was the first of the Elder Dragons to awaken. Upon waking up, he and his minions made a final push to all subterranean races (skritt, murrellow, and remaining asura, etc.) and the dwarves all underwent the Rite of the Great Dwarf to combat him. He had since been clearing tracks of land all across continental Tyria underground and can literally be located anywhere – we don’t know where. This is why his minions are found across the continent.
• There are in-universe theories that the Maguuma Wastes was caused by an Elder Dragon (it was once a jungle but dried up). However, it was pretty heavily arid lands even in GW1. Because of this in-universe theory, players theorize, as Mystic demonstrated, that Primordus was the one behind it. As well as the Great Collapse.

Primordus is the most mobile dragon.

@DarcShriek: We’ve seen her using portals that look like the Steam Portals. Unless she’s using the same exact portal this adds nothing to what was known.

Anyways, got to go for the time being, will run through the new story mode of Fractals later.

Celestina.2894:

Listen, I actually like Scarlet, but Christ enough is enough Bobby. Either give us a bit of a break from her, or hurry and finish her arch.

No. No break from her. Just make her plot more believable and less tied to everything that happens. We had a break from her, it was September. And it was a terrible time for a break from her because we just got introduced to her and had no time to gain any good points to counter-act all her negatives.

What we need is an update which gives us those good points. And sadly, this update just feels like shoehorning Scarlet in and leads players to wonder if Scarlet would have somehow been shoehorned into the Fall of Abaddon fractal.

Honestly, there was no reason to add Scarlet to Thaumanova from the start. Though at least that’s a bit more believable since she had history with Inquest.

And, again honestly, I don’t think people would have nearly half as much of an issue with her if she wasn’t made out to be so smart. If she had no ties to Biegarth or Asagari (or w/e the charr sniper’s name was) and if she didn’t graduate from all three colleges but instead just had ties to the hylek and Inquest, I bet folks would love her far more. Her insanity caused by Inquest experimentation which she unwittingly volunteered for while working with the Inquest. That would have been far more interesting. And the second thing that could have been done better is explaining why her alliances work out so well – perhaps she was using Inquest contacts or the Grizzwhirl to get them to work for her.

What we get instead is “she can do anything,” no explanation for why her alliances work so well, gets put into being responsible for the biggest Inquest disaster of all time, and perhaps worse of all, is both obviously crazy to the point where people must wonder how she gets anything done, yet somehow is so loved that everyone can’t help but work for/with her. It’s almost like she has split personalities, and one is shown to us only offscreen.

Yeah, I realized after posting. I’m an idiot who thought the update was released on the 29th, not 26th. I don’t know why I thought the 29th was Tuesday and not, y’know, today. But hey, we are all idiots in our own way.

In order:

• The writer(s) don’t care about continuity.
• Yes, it does matter. Each continuity has its own rules, and the rules of the continuity is as the writer makes it, but if the writer goes back on their own rules, then what is the point of making rules in the first place?
• Sometimes. It requires either lampshading, fridge logic, and general plot twists to work in most cases.
• I think the entirety of the audience who pays attention to the story cares.
• Bad. They need to improve her, not perform retroactive continuity (aka “retcon”) on her.

It came from an interview with Angel McCoy. She made mention of ley-lines.

I don’t see how this ties Scarlet to the steam creatures, btw DarcShriek.

Anyways, where is the source for these dialogue lines? Given how much BS people toss on the forums acting like it’s canon, I’ve grown cautious of believing anything on the forums that don’t quote a source.

Where did Mikhail find the dialogues and where did Rangersix “heard the following”?

draxynnic.3719:

-snip-

On first point: Indeed, and it would receive the overall view I got immediately after The Lost Shores – which was, to paraphrase Thalador specifically, along the lines of “it was the opposite of the fight with Zhaitan – that started awesome and ended poorly, this started poorly and ended awesome.” I most likely butchered his wording but that was the point he was making at the time. Hopefully, Scarlet’s will turn out the same: “started poorly, ended well.” In hindsight, it’ll likely receive the same criticism The Lost Shores receives now, which is typically along the lines of “it was really bad in delivery, but the story wasn’t bad and there were some great points to it.”

On second point: Also my hope. Use Scarlet as a whole to test out various things, then go and start the new storyline when you got at least a decent number of bad points from Scarlet’s plot and delivery ironed out. Like the constant usage of festivities in the main storyline – I think people have shown they’re tired of such a returning plot device, and I would hope that in the future even now Anet will just have the festivities run parallel to the main plot, rather than breaking or being part of it.

And on your last point: I too hate unfinished stories. I’m a completionist by nature though, so I’ll struggle through even the worst stories just to finish them. Though there’s still a point of no continuing – I don’t think Scarlet’s plot is nearly as bad as the Twilight series which is thus far the only (long) story that I never finished. Also part of the reason I hate the way manga are made – keep the plot going until popularity falls in which there’s an axe that prevents a proper ending.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

-snip-

I wouldn’t call the Baelfire rituals being used on dredge to be a case of taking apart and fixing/putting back together. But yes, I have noticed that there’s been no mention of azurite since Molten Facility. And it wasn’t just a unique touch to it – it was the second of two purposes for the Molten Alliance taking prisoners (the first being weapon testing subjects) – the prisoners were mining azurite in large numbers. And there’s even a “mysterious refined ore” found in a Flame Legion base that was added as part of Flame and Frost which calls it a newly discovered mineral – which I suspect to be azurite.

Not sure about her plans being beyond the Pale Tree. Possible, but her original statements were about the sylvari race specifically.

Jaken.6801:

-snip-

I hope no crashing of Wintersday. She’s crashed enough festivities. It’s boring to reuse the same plot over and over.

Jaken.6801:

Again, i have to bring the “computer” up again. Why did we focus on that in a sidequest, if we have seen asura using these things all over the place?

I don’t know what you’re talking about. We never focused on a computer. There was a single mention of a “kom-pew-something” which likely were to be a computer, but we neither saw nor heard of it aside from that single mention. There was no focus on it in a sidequest.

And I would argue that the asura don’t use computers. They use holographic interfaces with powercrystals to store data. They have a more magical variant which borderlines sci-fi by appearance, than a more modern computer idea – which the Molten Alliance would be more akin to getting, just fire-powered.

Jaken.6801:

The Order of Whispers does use something similiar in their hideout. A mechanical costruct which helps them work their intel (though it could also be part magical device, but more beased on elonian magic design).

…What device are you talking about? I don’t know of one…

Jaken.6801:

We know asuras tech is part technological, part magical.

Eh. While it is called “magitech” it is far more magical than technological. The amount of tech in it is exceedingly small outside of golems – as far as we’re told, at least.

…

I never said you said that. Perhaps you should try re-reading the posts in this thread. All of mine, specifically, since you seem to be responding to a very skewed version of what my posts are saying.

And compounded words like Moletariate do not count, suffice it to say, because I was talking about the animal being mentioned or not.

Avariz.8241:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

facedesk It feels like you’re either toying with me, or you have highly selective reading.

Proletariate does not mean government of the human people. It means human working class people in a human urban complex. If Moletariate is to equate to Proletaritate which Anet artistic team did intended then the only conclusion is Moletariate means mole working class people in a mole mount/warren complex.

Each and every point I had made on the topic still stands.

Including the post you quoted in responding to this.

I never questioned what Proletariate meant. So why you keep at that is unknown to me. What I pointed out is that getting “mole people” from “Moletariate” is an illogical step, because you would not get “people” from “pro” in Proletariate. What Proletariate means is irrelevant, since your original argument was the Mole in Moletariate signifies that dredge are, in-universe, “mole people.”

Now, as I said, yes the dredge are mole people from our perspective, but they are not mole people in-universe because, as said, there is no evidence that moles existed.

Now, all of this started from you stating that the ancestors of the dredge were called mole people. I think I and FlamingFoxx have proven by now that this is not the case.

If you continue this argument without responding – and therefore effectively ignoring – the real core points rather than focusing on these side snippets that have been included in posts, I am going to assume you are merely trolling at this point and will therefore shut the heck up in this discussion because further posting is pointless.

@Fafnir: And if you read the post you quoted, a part of what you quoted in-fact, I acknowledged the fact that there’s another “pale tree” out there – and I noted how Scarlet should not know about it, but could. She would not be out to destroy the Pale Tree unless she knows about the second “pale tree”.

@Stooperdale: And in comes Scarlet’s egoism and narcessism that makes her believe herself better than anyone else combined with the possible exception of the Elder Dragons (and possibly by extension the Pact, which would explain why the only thing she’s done against them is the Inquest and Aetherblades stealing some airships from them before reverse engineering them). It’s a fact that she believes that only the Elder Dragons might pose a danger to her, and nothing poses a definitive danger. By this, one can presume that she is so careless about the alliance because: 1) their destruction after she gets what she wants is irrelevant, and 2) she thinks that the united nations of Tyria (let alone them individually) can’t do diddlysquat against her.

@BobbyStein: I’m rather shocked to see red in this thread. Curious as to how this is the first thread you commented on for “sharing thoughts” though. I find that there are many more – and far older – theorycrafting about! Hmm, probably because it’s about Scarlet.

@Arewn: I honestly would rather not have the Scarlet mess cleaned up “post-haste” because that’ll be little different than just ignoring the problem. They should work on improving her, and then (or at the same time) finish her plot. True, it won’t better the view of players who had witnessed the rather poor, to put it really mildly , delivery of the character and plot, but at least she can go out with a bang.

Hopefully literally. 8D

@Dragonkain: Nightmare Courtiers could be tied to Mordremoth and, IMHO, have a stronger chance of being tied to Mordremoth than Scarlet does. Scarlet just doesn’t have any trace of fanaticism which is commonplace across all sapient dragon minions. Nightmare Courtiers are fanatical, towards the Nightmare. They treat the Nightmare in a similar light that Risen treat Zhaitan, or Branded treat Kralkatorrik.

@Arewn (again): At the risk of giving ArenaNet terrible ideas…

Bubbles will arise from the ocean depths and corrupt Zhaitan’s corpse, making a tentacular undead dragon of poison and water. Scarlet will then shoot it with a missle to the knee and absorb the reborn Zhaitan’s power, thus becoming a undead-watery-plant of pure insanity. She will rise Mordremoth and it will meet up with the other six Elder Dragons (Zhaitan’s reanimated corpse is crippled and mostly powerless but not dead). In this meeting they will agree to put aside their differences and elimate the true threat of all life and will combine into The Elder Dragon – a dragon of all six elements that is the size of the planet itself! Together they shall try to take down the empowered Scarlet who has cyborized herself at this point unexplainedly after having created an alliance between Menzies and Palawa Joko to create an army of Awakened Shadows. However, even this planetary beast is incappable of stopping the cyborized undead sylvari lich of shadow and water, and she ends up taking their body for herself, possessing it in yet another unexplained manner and moves on into the Mists after having nuked all of the world.

That’s when we step in, as we were all in World versus World Season 2 at the time, grinding achievements.

facedesk It feels like you’re either toying with me, or you have highly selective reading.

Moletariate is just the name of the body of government. A lot of the dredge naming is a series of puns off of the word “mole” and the Soviet Union (Molenin, Molachev, etc.). Moletariate = Proletariate

To argue that you can call dredge “mole people” because of Moletariate is like saying the people who lived within the Soviet Union were not Russians but “pro people.”

Besides, that article you quoted is also fan-written. Written solely by yours truly, in fact.

And again, I am not saying dredge are not mole-like people, or “mole people” if you prefer. Merely that the original implication of your wording that said the dredge were once called “mole people” (in the same manner in that, during GW1, the hylek were called “Frogmen”) would be incorrect as the dredge were never actually called “mole people” – they were always just simply “dredge.”

Side note: it wouldn’t even make sense to call dredge “mole people” from an in-universe prospect as far as we know, seeing how moles are yet to be known to exist in the Guild Wars universe’s lore.

Avariz.8241:

Putting aside my own recollection from GW1, Wiki’s first sentence says the Dredge were once called the mole people…http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dredge

“Once, the mole-people known as the legendary dredge were a pitiable race, enslaved by the dwarves and ready to fight alongside any who would help free them from their masters’ whips. After the Transformation of the Dwarves, the dredge gained their freedom once and for all, and established themselves as the heirs to the dwarven kingdom in the Shiverpeak Mountains, where they battle the displaced norn for control of dwarven territory. They have made their capital in Sorrow’s Embrace, formerly the main mine of the Stone Summit dwarves. "

You overlooked the comma. With the comma there it goes from your interpretation of “once the mole-people known as the dredge” to “Once (upon a time), the race, (whom are mole-people) known as the dredge, were a pitiful race.”

Besides, that’s fan-made. And by someone who makes a lot of weird writing in articles. There’s actually a missing comma there I think which would clarify it – should be placed after “mole-people” (which has never been used in-game, I believe, but they are clearly mole-like hence the usage (Edit: Okay, not in-game but in Factions manual)).

I have gone and edited the wording to hopefully prevent confusion again. (Edit: I see this particular confusion was caused by the said someone’s love for integrating NPC dialogue and manual text verbatim (or near so) into the wiki descriptions which causes fallacies and confusions).

Avariz.8241:

When I say ‘called the mole people’ I was in fact para phrasing Konig Des Todes.2086. I myself did not say ‘called the mole people’. What I actually said was “…the mole people were enslaved by the Stone Summit Dwarves from GW1. The mole people are the direct ancestors of the Dredge.”.

You see I used lower case which make what I said as in adjective form which is to say descriptive.

“the mole people are the direct ancestors of the Dredge” mean that you were stating – intentionally or not – that the dredge’s ancestors were called “mole people.”

It should be noted, by the way, that race names are lowercased. It is not Dredge, but dredge. It is not Skritt, but skritt. It is not Asura, but asura. Etc. etc.

You seem to be mistaken about something.

Elona is not the Crystal Desert. The Crystal Desert was what separated continental Tyria from the nation of Elona. Arguably, geographically speaking the Crystal Desert is part of Elona, but politically Elona ends – well, prior to Joko’s reign – at the Crystal Desert’s borders (note: the Desolation is the southern edge of the Crystal Desert, arguably). With Joko’s reign however, political Elona now reaches into the Crystal Desert.

Even in GW1, the Crystal Desert was a wasteland. However, in the past 250 years thanks to Joko damming the Elon river, much of the Crystal Desert and the Desolation – mainly around the river – has become verdant.

Elona is not abandoned but under the reign of an undead lich. Those “last known survivors” were the last refugees before Kralkatorrik’s rise which cut off contact with Elona completely – said last refugees passing through 50 years prior to GW2 (roughly). Elona still exists.

Cantha, too, still exists. Though we know not the state it is. We only know it exists because sporatic sailors wash ashore the Tarnished Coast – showing that they have ships being sent out for one reason or another. Zhaitan – and possibly the deep sea dragon – had been preventing contact with Cantha. The last we knew was 100 years prior to the game, and the continent was by all indications still the xenophobic mostly-isolated continent that it was since Usoku took the throne.

Big Tower.5423:

Actually what happened is that thaumanova was an large asuran city (about size of rata sum) There was an inquest reactor trying to get infinite energy out of elder dragon energy. (Nuculear reactor just replace radiation with energy from kraklatorrik (chaos energy and crystal theme if you for example go in the chaos caverns jp you’l see more relations just dig into it

As I stated in your thread, there is absolutely nothing which conclusively points the Thaumanova Reactor to the Elder Dragons.

The Chaos Crystal Caverns is not tied to Kralkatorrik nor is Kralkatorrik tied to chaos magic.

You’re taking a theory – one which I helped develop (if not originate) in fact – and trying to present it as fact.

Avariz.8241:

Having cleared up the mixed up from memory by mental reasoning, I can say with a high degree of correctness that the mole people were enslaved by the Stone Summit Dwarves from GW1. The mole people are the direct ancestors of the Dredge. That means in GW 2 the NPC conversation I over heard less than a week ago was correct first time round. That is the Asuras had enslaved the Skritts in the historic past. The picture information from the original poster would indicate that at the time of the Thaumanova Reactor incident the Skritts were either still slaves of the Asuras or the Skritts were in the long or short process of wrestling their freedom from the Asuras and were still engaging or cohabiting with the Asuras.

The dredge have always been dredge, never called “mole people.”

Also, the asura had never enslaved the skritt in historic past. The asura have in the past been enemies of the skritt, viewing them as vermin to wipe out completely. To them it was an extermination of rodents. The skritt were slaves to no one.