Guild Wars 2

During The Lost Shores weekend, Southsun Cove, a level 80 area, was available for all players via upscaling. Its events not there were in a level 8 and a level 20 area other than Lion’s Arch (which also had upscaling to lvl 80).

New content is always, during initial reveal, available to all players. And furthermore, said content is always spread through multiple levels.

I don’t think it’s very possible to tell if its day or night in the Dragonbrand.

darkace.8925:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I think the second expansion is far too soon. I’d put my bets on 3rd at least. Jormag is likely next, and the deep sea dragon may follow, and only then would we go for Cantha. But Kralkatorrik is more likely to be dealt with first, and can be part of an Elona expansion.

I suspect they’ll let us visit Cantha before they let us visit Elona. Reason being they’ll want to do everything to draw in the Asian market.

You do realize that both Cantha and the Divinity’s Reach Canthan district had gotten harsh views on certain aspects of their Asian audience, right?

The former being due to how Kaineng City is mostly formed off of one aspect of an Asian culture, while the Canthan district was a mixture of influences from different Asian cultures. There were complaints the former poorly represented the Asian cultures, and the latter… well, Asian communities get upset when their culture gets mixed/mistaken for another Asian culture by westerners. Though that’s silly in a fantasy setting.

@Guild Warrior: Only politically. Geographically, they’re the same continent (Eurasia, folks refer to it as).

As to unknown continents and the supercontinent – I’m referring to this map which shows a total of 4 continents, more or less.

@exelion: Er… The United States of America is called such because it’s the united 50 states of the continent (Northern) America. It’s simply called US, USA, or America for short. Just as the United Kingdom is referred to as UK.

I can tell you that it’s not – to my memory at least – stated to be a continent except by fan-made wordings.

And it’s not a common name for the empire, it IS the name of the empire. Empire of the Dragon is just a descriptive title to it.

I’ll admit I didn’t read your posts. I was replying to the OP after all, and just glanced at your post. I wasn’t caring to debunk your thoughts, merely provide my own.

I disagree that the forgotten are in a defensive position in the Crystal Desert. They weren’t pushed back there by force. Nor are they being assaulted. That’s just their home that they chose to live in rather than have conflict with the imbalanced humans. The only time they defended themselves was when the Elonians took them for mindless beasts, where they completely slaughtered the Elonians that didn’t kill each other in civil war. And the forgotten hold no fortified ruins – those are Elonia ruins. They’re hardly a defending race.

I cannot see a comparison between Infusion and the thorns sylvari use. They’re countering two different things and the important thing to note is the races’ counter to Elder Dragons. Infusion wouldn’t do kitten against Elder Dragon corruption – if anything, its just like adding seasoning to a meal. Forgotten magic, however, is immune to corruption – just like sylvari and their magic appear to be. This is the main point to make.

The seers hold no immunity, no counter to Elder Dragons, no nothing. The only thing they have is the ability to starve Elder Dragons via the Bloodstone.

And no, Infusion is not comparable to sylvari immunity. Why? Infusion isn’t natural. Furthermore, it only strengthens defenses – you can still be harmed by Spectral Agony. Sylvari immunity, however, while leads to death over corruption, holds no benefit to the Elder Dragons. It’s a full on counter-measure.

And by the way, the immunity is beyond Zhaitan – it was mention before release that rather than becoming a dragon minion, sylvari simply die when corruption would take them. Zhaitan doesn’t corrupt the living, so the example given would only count for Jormag and Kralkatorrik, who do corrupt living. As it stands, only Mordremoth, Primordus, and the DSD might be capable of corrupting sylvari.

Another tie between seers and humans: Both are races brought to the brink of the end during the rise of the Elder Dragons, but not because of the Elder Dragons. Humans are being brought down by charr and centaur, while seers were by seers.

To summarize:

Forgotten/Sylvari similarities

• Immunity to dragon corruption
• New to the world while Elder Dragons are awake (if indications on when the previous rise was is correct)
• Promotes balance
• Both are initially taken for mindless beasts/plants – forgotten by Elonians, sylvari by asura
• Sylvari scholar researching forgotten in Arah

Seer/Sylvari similarities

• Mysterious, little known about
• Holds counter-measures to a strong force (Infusion to Spectral Agony; immunity to dragon corruption)
• …?

Seer/Human similarities

• Brought to the wall while Elder Dragons were awake, but not by Elder Dragons
• Are good with defenses
• Human scholar researching seers in Arah
• Seers were once strong allies to the mursaat; humans were once strong allies to the asura (mursaat/asura correlation assumed – sylvari are no better allies to the asura than norn or charr are to them, human and asura have a stronger ties however due to the Shining Blade) – yes, this one is a bit of a stretch

Forgotten/Human similarities

• Follow the Six
• Supposedly come from the Mists; does come from the Mists
• One goes to the Crystal Desert of own free will rather than fighting wars; the other are pushed to the wall (not that similar)
• …?

The main things to note are the similarities of the old races during the ED rise, to the new races of this ED rise. And there, you have far more similarities in what I say.

The issue with tying seers with any race is that we know next to nothing about them still.

As it stands, we need to be careful of the asura. Else they’ll wipe out the humans to near extinction,

exelion.2369:

Arcalas.9368:

I dont think anet is planning to visit Cantha in gw2 but they might hint at some lore on it later on.

I can almost guaranty that we will visit Cantha, however it might not be until the 2nd expansion or so.

While they may not have concrete plans yet, I cannot believe that they would decide to never visit Cantha in GW2. That’s taking a lot of potential content out of the door for future releases.

It just won’t be happening anytime this year or next. First we must kill the deep sea dragon, and have reason to go there, even if it’s just for trade.

I think the second expansion is far too soon. I’d put my bets on 3rd at least. Jormag is likely next, and the deep sea dragon may follow, and only then would we go for Cantha. But Kralkatorrik is more likely to be dealt with first, and can be part of an Elona expansion.

I don’t think the norn and charr refugees are coming from that far north.

Otherwise we’d also be getting content in Frostgorge Sound and Fireheart Rise. And I just can’t see charr refugees heading south from Blood Legion Homelands either – they’re more likely to head east (where more of charr land is), since they wouldn’t have to wade through Flame Legion territory to get to safety.

All outward appearances are pointing to Flame Legion and dredge activity rising. Both hold ties to destroyers, and the modern Flame Legion I’ve been long suspecting have been pulling magic from Primordus (knowingly or not) given how the change their bodies into fiery… things via self-mutilating rituals. These rituals may be calling upon small dosages of a destroyer champion.

I’m betting that this tie to destroyers – dredge controlling the Destroyer of Worlds thanks to the Inquest, and the Flame Legion seeking fiery power – is what’s causing this. And Primordus is reacting, because he’s kitten his power and minions are being used by puny organic beings (he seems to hate living creatures, given how he and his champions have been all about corrupting lava and earth, and killing all life – the Great Destroyer’s purpose was to wipe out all life to make way for Primordus, which is counter-effective if he used them as minions/food like the other Elder Dragons, but super-effective if he doesn’t, because it weakens the other Elder Dragons while giving him fewer enemies).

Interesting about Pramas. North of where I always looked. I’ll have to go visit him sometime.

Have you tried doing the stone puzzle? Iirc, she spawned after I killed the Veteran mesmer on my charr.

For the secret training – take a Whispers character and go to the Bear Lodge. At the southern ice sculpture with the vista on top, there’s two siblings arguing – the brother is a member of Whispers (there’s actually a lot of Whispers members in Hoelbrak…). Outside Raven Lodge are some Priory scholars, one being an asura. Take a Priory character to talk to him, and he’ll elaborate on the prophecy he’s discussing to say the norn are claiming some old fireside song has foretold the death of Knut Whitebear. He even says a small part of it, though I don’t remember what, iirc it was very bloody.

It’s a shame that Anet couldn’t just say the continent was something other than Tyria, but folks in Prophecies just don’t refer to the land by its continental name.

Hell, they can still do this. Why?

Elona isn’t a continent – it’s a human kingdom that was divided into three provinces (Istan, Kourna, and Vabbi). It’s stated in Nightfall that the Desolation and Dzalana isn’t part of Elona, but they’re part of the continent very clearly.

Cantha isn’t a continent – it’s a human empire (aka Empire of the Dragon). The Battle Isles is stated to be part of Cantha (it is literally said “this is Cantha” in regards to being on the Battle Isles), just as Shing Jea, Echovald Forest, and the Jade Sea are.

In other words, Elona and Cantha are merely human boundaries. They come from different continents, thus they’re used to refer to the continent as well.

But technically speaking, Elona and Tyria share the same continent – and always had (even if they were split by the Crystal Sea in the past, they connected further inland of their supercontinent).

So, really, all continents of the game are nameless as it stands. We just have a makeshift name for two of them (Elona and Cantha).

This has been brought up before, and in a way there are. But I disagree with BuddhaKeks’ linking the forgotten with humans and sylvari with seers. The forgotten would be sylvari. There is FAR greater connections between the sylvari and forgotten than sylvari and seers/humans and forgotten.

First, denote the Arah dungeon – a sylvari studies forgotten, a human studies seers, norn study jotun, and asura studies mursaat. In the second instance of the personal story The Source of Orr, these four scholars appear again with a fifth: a charr studying dwarves.

And there is parallel between the races.

Forgotten had magic to prevent corruption. Sylvari are immune to corruption and those large thorn vines they can make also are good for repelling Elder Dragon minions it seems (even better once improved by a certain asuran scholar). Furthermore, the forgotten were balance-keepers. And the sylvari are all about seeking both sides of the coin. They don’t fear the dark, and except the Nightmare Court, don’t avoid the light. As the kodan themselves say, the sylvari while not preaching balance innately know balance and keep to it. Both races are anti-Elder Dragon and pro-Balance. And implications give that both arrived during the Elder Dragons’ reign (this is going off of the minor implications that the last ED rise was between 2,000-3,000 years prior, and the timeline’s date of Forgotten arriving on Tyria in 1,768 BE is truth). There cannot be a greater comparison.

Dwarves were the least magical (in modern times at least) and most technological. Like the charr.

Mursaat were powerful spellcasters primarily who care more of themselves than others. Inquest were intended to repeat mursaat actions, and we know asura are magical geniuses.

Jotun are prideful and care for the legends of both themselves and their ancestors, baring large monuments that give testament to deeds of heroes, and hail from the Shiverpeak Mountains. Norn fit them perfectly.

Thus leave humans with the race we know the least about: seers. All we know of the seers is that they’re good with defensive magic (infusion), created the bloodstone, and were nearly wiped out by the mursaat. Humanity’s forte is defense and holding out through wars.

There is only one connection humans have with the Forgotten: they share the same faiths. That’s a weak connection, given no other faith is shared.

Kain Francois.4328:

Just a thought, but maybe it’s possible the steam creatures are behind Fire&Ice?

I found it very peculiar that there were vents of steam. It could have been the dredge, but I suspect Steam Creatures because there’s not much lore behind them.

Despite their name, the steam creatures have little to do with steam. They just have some exhaust.

Steam creatures are, effectively, mostly mechanical cyborgs (an NPC notes there is an organic center) that are sent from a possible future. Think Terminator 2. They appear too far to the southeast for them to be an issue underground in the north.

Okay, I think we all know what we want Cantha to look like in Guild Wars 2.

This.

Okay, no seriously, I think this is a lot more accurate.

Amadan.9451:

Konig Des Todes, you made an amazing analysis. i was very intrigued. thanks!

Really? I literally just let my brain carry away there on a wild stream of thoughts fueled by memories of an old debate from senior year high school history class where me and my group had to argue why merchantalism was bad…

Legion.4198:

Humans would follow the real life version of industrialization. More centered around consumer products and less focused in military ones.

When I read this, I got the sudden mental image of “Shing Jea Missle Crisis! Elona puts missiles on Canthan borders!”

Legion.4198:

Also if Cantha or Elona are going to be the enemy, then either they will be on the same level as the Pact or the Pact will be dissolved/neutralized before we meet new foes. The advances of the Pact cause a serious problem of escalation and honestly I’d rather have the nations of Tyria take the initiative this time instead of the Pact (which I’ve never liked it).

The Pact has 1 goal and 1 goal only: Elimination of the Elder Dragons.

This is why they didn’t lift a finger when the karka showed. They weren’t dragon minions.

Dustfinger.9510:

A-net does liken them to the animal spirirs (No, they did not say it was only norn who saw them this way so norn might be wrong, they said the whole question of godhood is a question of how the culture sees them.) So the gods are spirits AND they are gods, depending on which culture you view them from because human culture views spirits as gods and norn view gods as spirits.

I think you misunderstood what Jeff meant. Jeff meant that each culture views them in different light – think of it like Judaism, Christianity, and Muslims. They all worship the same god, but not all admit it and there are conflicts on how they view it. Heck, even within just one of those religions that happens.

In this case, the Six Gods are always the Six Gods. But different cultures view them differently – charr view such beings to fight and kill, asura view such beings as merely parts of the Eternal Alchemy, norn view them as just another pantheon like their Spirits of the Wild which they call Spirits of Action, and sylvari don’t know what to think. This isn’t saying “they are just like the Spirits of the Wild” this is saying “the norn view them to be like the Spirits of the Wild” – so yes, it is possible the norn may be wrong on this.

Everything else… I’m sorry, but I don’t really get what you’re trying to say here. If I understand you correctly, the Elder Dragons, Spirits of the Wild, and Six Gods are, to you, all the same? Or is it that one is born from the previous (respectively)? If the former – wrong. If the latter – makes no sense.

There’s two major flaws in your argument: First is your notion of the multiverse theory.

You outright presume that it would firstly follow the most common theme to such a theory. However, all incidences we know show this to be false. Take the Dream of Dreams for instance: it shows the current future’s path – which changed when it came to us being in Orr. As the Pale Tree said, the future is always changing. The Infinity Ball storyline furthers this though not as hard, and also shows the possibility of timetravel – as well as the effects of such. The only thing left for the multiverse to really holds sway is WvW, which is hard to count for lore (PvP of any kind has always been iffy in the GW series).

Secondly, you presume that these beings must exist in multiple universes, should there be such.

And third, you presume something (Six Gods) which doesn’t come from Tyria, is coming from another universe’s Tyria.

The fourth and final major flaw in your comment is your ending statement: gods have harnessed power. This is a proactive action. You cannot harness something you were born with – which by all indications is what your hypothesis is claiming. That the Six Gods comes from the Spirits of the Wild who in turn comes from the Elder Dragons.

But all indications show that this is false. On all three charges – that the Spirits of the WIld come from the ED, that the Six Gods come from the Spirits of the Wild, and that the Six Gods come from the Elder Dragons. Nothing links these together except the shape of the facets, which might I reminds you, those facets are tied to the Forgotten. And their magic couldn’t be corrupted by Elder Dragons – at all.

You’re mistaking the one that I referred to for Flame Legion. I didn’t mean Kalla. I meant the one female who acted out (and led an underground movement) against the Flame Legion: Balthea Havocbringer. Because of what Balthea did – refuse to bow down to the Titans – they killed her and banned all females ever from fighting on the battlefield.

Kalla came centuries later.

I saw her on my charr, but not my human. I don’t think it’s race-based.

That’s rather intentional, I believe. Mediterranean comes from latin which means “middle of the land.” A combination of Medius (middle) and Terra (land – also serving as the latin name for the world) – wikipedia is a godsend for doublechecking my memory. As I’m sure you know, Terra and variations (Terrans) is often used to refer to Earth/Earthlings in Science Fiction settings.

Son of Elias.5420:

Unlikely. We saw way back in EotN that Norn will hunt together and share the glory of a hunt. And now Wolf is one of the major Spirits, who means hunting as a pack is even more important in Norn society. The concept of working together to take down large prey is fundamental to a lupine philosophy, after all.

There’s a HUGE difference between a hunting party of 3-8 norn and hundreds of norn fighting the same foe at once. Which is what the skaald claims – that Jormag took out hundreds of norn with a single swoop at a time.

That’s an army of norn. Norn not only don’t do armies, they can’t because they just don’t get along. That’s the entire lore behind it. Why do you think the most renown norn in the vigil never had a lasting partner until the PC comes along? Forgal’s a bloody norn is why. Most norn you see helping the Pact or the other orders are doing so to increase their legends or are in small groups.

It’s got nothing to do with them not being able to form hunting groups. It’s about the fact that they don’t come to agreements before a fistfight begins. This is who they are in lore, even if its poorly shown in-game (then again, a lot of the norn’s epicness is lacking in-game).

Son of Elias.5420:

As far as a Norn version of Trahearne, it would probably be Knut Whitebear, the Norn racial “leader”. He’s the descendant of Asgeir, after all, the one who cut out Jormag’s fang. Aside from that, we might have some new character appear as the one to finally shatter the Fang and, from that, go on to be Jormag’s slayer.

I don’t see it being Knut. I see it being one of his sons. Sigfast I think is the one who mentions doubt into just sitting around waiting for a hero. He wants to take the charge now.

Knut’s secretly training Wolfborn to fight icebrood, according to Whisper agetns in Hoelbrak, and according to Priory scholars in Hoelbrak there is an old song that’s believed to be a prophecy of Knut’s death. Sigfast is also sent by his father to Caudecus’ Manor for that party that’s interrupted by Separatists, so that he can experience more of the world.

I bet either Knut’s preparing a small elite unit for his son – with or without his knowledge – or Knut’s going to kick the bucket, prophecy style, and Sigfast replaces him in leading the charge.

That’s what I’m hoping Anet does. Completely redo that dungeon. Yes, the whole dungeon. Okay, not the whole dungeon, but most of it.

I just did it today and the alterations they made with Flame and Frost: Prelude makes the entire dungeon a laughing stock. Beforehand, the Mouth of Zhaitan was a pain, now he’s little harder than that Champion Bloated Creeper (which is only hard cuz he constantly heals if you don’t kill grubs fast enough). The dragon champion fights were once chaotic with you being flung every which way and there being veterans in the mix. Now? No vets, no flinging. We took each dragon down halfway or more each time they became attackable – almost all four cannons on a side were operating each time. That’s how pathetic the mobs were. And note: this was a half-guild half-pug group. And my armor was and is broken during the entire fight (all damaged going in, 2 pieces broke during). And the fight with Zhaitan? It was sad before, now its just pitiful.

They seriously need to redo the difficulty in the dungeon.

My prediction: None.

The current eight already fill almost every niche you can think of. And whatever niches remain can simply be added onto existing professions.

What I foresee being added for expansions are:

New Weapons
New Underwater (only?) skills
New Racial skills
New Races

Also, this isn’t lore. This is a suggestion.

I was being rather sarcastic, though if you note, they do go overboard with the anti-female (and both hate women because of one in the past? lol that’s no different than hating all men because of Hitler).

@Guild Warrior: Depends on if they have the coal to burn, probably. Though they’d also need to have the right direction of technology to learn that they can use it (I don’t think coal is used for anything but keeping fires going in GW1 – and that’s in Ascalon! – or as snowmen eyes).

@darkace: I’m hoping that, should we ever return to Cantha, the Jade Sea and Echovald Forest will only be partially un-petrified. I’d love to see a comparison of wood and stone Kurzick structures/ruins, and little floating islands of jade (hell, they already made textures for the solid jade, why wouldn’t they use it?).

I wouldn’t call the coral risen to be the “elite” – they’re just the first to be corrupted. That’s all. They do contain the elite within them, but they’re not all elite themselves.

I haven’t seen one in the Ruins of Rin, no matter how often or when I looked.

I was a sad charr when I saw naught.

After Trahearne? Who knows. Before? Yeah, it happened. Before he pushed norn south, they were going after him in waves.

Though I somehow doubt that hundreds of norn can fight Jormag at once like the one skaald claims. They’d be shoving each other over for the glory of the hunt. Or drawing straws to see who goes next.

I figured it was to show that they’re rotten bodies (due to being dead for 150 years before Zhaitan rose). You can’t stand up very well if your back muscles are rotten away.

The new height makes no sense lore wise, and I can only see it being reasonable to make them more noticeable. But you know what? kitten that. I WANT HUMAN SIZED HUMAN RISEN PLEASE. And a human-sized King Adelbern.

Though I am suspecting that Joko’s Orrian now that these risen look like him but with corals (they’re not wide enough to be norn!).

I’m with Elias. Plus, it’s 100000000000% unfair to everyone who buys the game after that one-time event.

“Oh, your whole personal story is setting you up to kill Zhaitan? Sorry, bro. We killed him last year. You never will.”

You can imagine the rage.

Son of Elias.5420:

exelion.2369:

Europe is a cooler name for a planet than Earth imo.

But imagine the confusion.

“We must achieve peace for all the people of Europe! Uh, the planet, not the continent.”

“Alright, we’ve landed on the moon. Hey, I can see Europe!”
“Duh, it’s huge.”
“No, the continent.”

“I will conquer Europe!”

“The plague killed 9 out of 10 people in all of Europe.”

See?

Sucks for Tyrians, doesn’t it? :P

I rather hated Factions, personally. And for returning to Cantha, I couldn’t care less for the time being. Tyria has a lot of problems left unsolved, and I’d much rather go to new lands than to some xenophobic continent where 4/5ths of the playerbase (under the presumption that there’s an equal amount of all races which, yes, I know that’s not the case) would be immediately hated by all lore on Cantha that we have.

@Guild Warrior: Saying Cantha was based on China is like saying standard fantasy is based on Greece. There’s some Chinese elements, but overall it has a large mixture of cultural influences – Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese too I think (possibly others), as well as Germanic and Gothic (in Kurzicks) and Greco (in Luxons).

@Lutinz: Isolation leads to merchantilism which can literally go either way. When Spain went through merchantilism, it eventually fell economically; however, when it was enforced on England by Napoleon later on, we had the birth of the Industrial Revolution (well, the very beginnings of it). In both cases, the result was caused by using up needed resources that were limited – one group failed to find alternatives, the other didn’t.

So Cantha going Isolationist can go either way for its economical and technological development. The main question is: How much resources do they have, and can they discover an alternative when those resources they rely on runs out?

Given how big Kaineng City has grown to be – engulfing other cities by all appearances and becoming an effective 1/4th of the empire – unless they held some population purgings (be it through execution, exile, or so forth) or held massive rationings for an extended periods of time (which would lead to revolutions), they’d eventually run low on enough food and timber. This was actually a past problem for Cantha BEFORE the Jade Wind – and in turn, the massive expansion of Kaineng City. In 221 AE, Cantha opened trade with the northern continents and Shing Jea was no longer heavily logged – this gave way for making the islands to be farmland, since the timber needed was imported. Without that import, Cantha will again need to do some massive logging so long as they rely on wood. And unless they go about cutting down a de-petrified Echovald Forest, there’s not much in the way of woods to log. in Cantha anymore.

So unless they stop needing as much wood and food as they have for centuries (the main initiators behind the Tengu Wars was, in fact, the Canthan’s expansion of farmland into tengu territory – which brought disease much like when the Spaniards visited Mesoamerica), I’m seeing Cantha going into an economical depression and famine. This would in turn lead the already xenophobic and near fascist government to further ostracize its people – no more are they going after criminals alone, they’re going after the poor and others they can get rid of (not the working class, of course – can’t have your nobles brought down! But rival nobles? Fair game). All that’s needed is to pin some false charges. With an army at your back, no one would question. Not for some time.

In the end, I’m predicting that Cantha will appear to be a dystopic empire. I could even see some Hunger Games references going about in it – an excellent means of keeping resource exput to a minimum.

On the other hand, they could seek invading other lands. For all we know, Cantha and Elona could be at war (one requiring resources like food and timber, the other needing resources like fresh “recruits” to Joko’s army) – with the DSD sitting right in the middle of it.

Actually, mechanics don’t mimic looting bodies for that. It mimics picking up items/environmental weapons. If people take it as looting bodies, well… that’s kind of their problem for seeing something that’s not there mechanically or lore wise.

I’ve thought of the whole deathdrops thing too, but the issue with that comes from the revive orbs. Folks have used them in Rata Sum to explore the supposed-to-be-unexplorable areas beneath the cube (falling off the cube, landing on ground, using orb at right time to revive self).

And even then, with all the exploits there already are via dropping or jumping up ledges, you can bet that will be exploited – though pointless it may be, generally.

Plus, it’ll just be changing a large hill/small mountain for a canyon. Wouldn’t that be equally immersion breaking?

As to the lake bit with strong current – go to Drakkars Spurs in Frostgorge Sound, you get strong current in the north with land right there feet from you. Or in Southsun Cove, go towards Morgan’s Spiral in Caledon – ocean current. Between Sparkfy Fen and Straits of Devastation there’s a water gap – ocean current.

What would be preferable would be larger portals between zones, rather than narrow passage ways. Or maybe more structures to block passages – like how they use the Great Northern Wall, or Vigil Keep.

Lutinz.6915:

I can think of anything in game but once, when I used to do paper and pen RP I ran a campaign book where the villian was called Salhad’bal. It wasnt till the first time I introduced him to my players that I realised how his name sounded when pronounced.

I had to scrap him pretty quickly. I just couldnt get my players to fear the dreaded ‘salad bowl’.

Fun fact: I pronounced that name as ball not bowl.

And now, ladies and gentlement, you got yourself a perverted sylvari name! RELEASE THE KITTENS!

Except for the first 20 levels of the personal story, or levels 30-48 which focus on political and minor racial plights (the latter just happening to deal with Elder Dragons – some by chance (grawl, skritt), some because of (hylek)).

It’s not all “how are we going to kill the dragons” – most of it is actually “we need to stop bickering so we can go kill the dragons” – and that still ignores 30-40 levels worth (just shy of half the personal storyline). And that second half is more of “let’s go take on a dragon!”.

See definitions four and five:

earth
[urth] Show IPA
noun
1.
( often initial capital letter ) the planet third in order from the sun, having an equatorial diameter of 7926 miles (12,755 km) and a polar diameter of 7900 miles (12,714 km), a mean distance from the sun of 92.9 million miles (149.6 million km), and a period of revolution of 365.26 days, and having one satellite. See table under planet.
2.
the inhabitants of this planet, especially the human inhabitants: The whole earth rejoiced.
3.
this planet as the habitation of humans, often in contrast to heaven and hell: to create a hell on earth.
4.
the surface of this planet: to fall to earth.
5.
the solid matter of this planet; dry land; ground.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Earth?s=t

Other than the planet’s name, “earth” is basically just another term for soil and rocks. I would argue that the planet is named after this term, rather than the term named after the planet.

They’re also mostly norn from what I’ve seen (it’s rare for one of the human, asura, or charr characters to turn into a risen in the later storyline).

But if anything, the game would be sexist towards male – the enemy factions are women haters (Sons, Flame), and there’s more important female figures than male overall (even more female members of the Six and Destiny’s Edge), and almost every main villain is male (Varesh being the main exception, and even then, she was only a half-way boss).

I have seen her, though I can’t recall why she spawns. I suspect off the top of my head it may do with the completion of the escort quest, where Redstaff becomes hostile.

The lack of destroyer models – especially compared to GW1 – is indeed disappointing, however it’s explainable in the fact that of the four active Elder Dragons, Primordus is the least influential (barely above the DSD and Mordremoth). There’s only four destroyer models in the entire game, one of which is used once (Sorrow’s Embrace, explorable) – which I wish that model was used for the poorly named “Megadestroyer” (honestly, those Obsidian Destroyer Trolls are more originally named than the Megadestroyer…).

Djinn are said to be bound due to their avarice, often by powerful wizards. They’re just not made for servitude.

Technically, it controls and makes undead. But Zhaitan himself may not be undead (it’d have had to have died in the past to be an undead – and given the premise, an Elder Dragon never died in the past).

Interesting time periods? Around the time of the Exodus, 200-ish years prior to GW1 (King Thorn’s reign, Joko vs. Turai, Lord Odran, titans appearing before Flame Legion, and Shiro causing the Jade Wind all happened in this timeframe), GW1, and GW2 are the busiest timeframes for sure. If you can make an interesting enough story, any time period would do though. And the less lore known in that time period, the more you can freeball it (as long as its reasonable, of course :p).

Well, it refers to both the individuals during the group event quest, as well as the three groups themselves iirc. The heart NPC calls them such in the event’s area. I may be wrong on this though, as I just remember the term being used for more than the event in game (I never saw the non-group event with the term used in-game, sadly). Unfortunately, the wiki doesn’t have pre-completion of any of the anti-alliance hearts so not sure.

I do know, however, that the makeshift alliance to combat those three groups allying – that is, the Seraph, Wardens, and Peacemakers working together – is referred to as the Triforge.

Bloody Zac.8960:

I don’t think it should be the “Mysterious Hero”. That is way too impersonal, and you’re right, it doesn’t fit.

[…]

Since this is an MMO, we aren’t going to get a super personalized story, and most MMO writers do add NPC’s like Trahearne and Kormir simply because lore-wise, that’s the easiest. They just stick whatever the PC did to those NPC’s.

That way just makes it seem like we didn’t matter, that Trahearne would have defeated Zhaitan without our help. Obviously, that’s just my opinion, so take it or leave it.

Mysterious Hero was obviously just an example and can be replaced by any type of title. Only a few weeks/months passed since Zhaitan’s death, yet the famed Commander of the Pact holds no name, no gender, no profession, and no race. Makes perfect sense.

Thus, they go with “the Pact did it” rather than “this person/<person’s title> did it.”

And Anet never sticks what the PC does onto a NPC – they stick it to a generic group of heroes. Thus far at least.

Bloody Zac.8960:

Exactly. We were important, but lore-wise, we aren’t mentioned. It’s a tough road to tread when writing a story, especially for an MMO, so it’s understandable why they do it.

….

But lore-wise, it’s not yet mentioned who killed Zhaitan. At all. You’re complaining that Anet did something they didn’t do (yet). And if they follow GW1’s case, it won’t get brought up except in personal instances where you’re still the hero for quite some time. Everywhere in GW1 it was shown as us, if the character had done it, except only a few times. It’s in GW2 where the PC of GW1 is kept mysterious (if mentioned).

Lutinz.6915:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, given all this… where’s the Frost part? Flame=destroyers or Flame Legion by all accounts, but I’d hardly call dredge “frost.”

Perhaps the presense of the Destroyers would trigger a retaliation by Icebrood. We have champions of Jormag flying around just to the north. That would be interesting. Getting caught in a fight between two elder dragon’s minions.

Great, you got me picturing a large Destroyer of Worlds using its little arm-mounted cannons to shoot down a Claw of Jormag.

Crushnaut.8307:

Clearly, since the forces of good created the pact, the forces of evil will create the anti-pact. It will be dredge, svanir, flame legion, and inquest… riding destroyers!

Ye of little observation. The “anti-pact” was existing before the Pact. It’s called the “Sinister Triad” – Nightmare Court, Inquest, and Bandits working together. Bandits are also allied with the centaurs to boot, and are led by the White Mantle (which may or may not be led by Lazarus or another mursaat).

I can easily see dredge – possibly even flame legion – being added to this pact. But not svanir. Nightmare Court still hate the Elder Dragons (it’s odd enough they work with Inquest, given the history and hatred for asura and the Inquest’s actions with Elder Dragons, but eh, the bad guys are all pitch black in morals, no matter which group you look at – one of the things I dislike most about GW2. The nicest guys of the “villains” are the cuthroat pirates! lol).

Crushnaut.8307:

Finally, all these refugees keep telling me that, “raven told me you were coming.” What I don’t get is why didn’t raven tell them to get out before this disaster struck? Why is he telling them useless things like my daily schedule. Kinda sounds like raven is a kitten. Maybe raven is behind all this… …. maybe …

That’s just a standard norn response. Raven told me you were coming… I pray to the Spirits of the Wild, but they rarely answer… Yes? Oh, hi. etc. etc.

Well we know that the Krytans have ships going through Lake Doric – that’s how Seraph’s Landing in Harathi Hinterlands gets supplies. Though transportation and naval warfare are two very different things.

I kind of figured that’s why there were three (possibly four based on Mordremoth’s position in hibernation) when they went to sleep – they felt the Bloodstone and was searching for it before starving – it was, after all, the last magic source in Tyria at the time. I also figured that’s why Zhaitan was in Arah when he fell asleep, given that the forgotten were there before (Orrian History Scrolls mention Dwayna entering the world and stepping on the stones of Arah, and there’s The Altar of Glaust, where the forgotten freed Glint from Kralkatorrik – this implies Arah predates the Six Gods, or at least existed while the Elder Dragons were last awake).

Reason why I say three or four and not four or five, by the way, is that Jormag seems to be north of continental Tyria (he seems to have woken up closer to the kodan than the norn). I suspect he began just as far from Tyria as the DSD did, but he’s been moving south steadily – heading right to the magical feast of five split bloodstones (so I suspect).

This would also explain why Zhaitan remained relatively in place while no other Elder Dragon except possibly the DSD/Mordremoth (if Mordremoth is awake) remained in the general location for long. Jormag went south for some reason. Kralkatorrik went south after Glint. Primordus is tunneling all over the underground. Why does Zhaitan remain in Orr? Because he happened to wake up at a magical hotspot of delicacies (same reason I suspect Primordus is remaining underground, other than the dwarves – just imagine him having all that ancient asuran magic to feast on – or why Kralkatorrik hasn’t been heard from since Edge of Destiny – so much magic in the Crystal Desert to be had! Plus recovery from his near death experience).

Yeah, I always found that interesting how between the five years the Lionguard went from a truce with Kryta to fight the centaurs in turn for aid against the risen to avoid the kryta/centaur conflict.

I guess the Captain’s Council (not Ship’s Council) thought the centaurs would be a bigger threat than the risen. Which looking at Gendarran and Kessex Hills, is fairly true (Krytans wouldn’t be too adept at naval warfare either, I imagine).

Lonami.2987:

Why? The first time we didn’t see the corpse, but now we could have him, defeated in front of us, and 100% verifiable to be dead.

Don’t bring things to the extremes, making Zhaitan be still active wouldn’t mean the rest of the dragons resurrecting even after we cut them to pieces and burned them to ashes. Zhaitan’s case leaves room enough for other possibilities.

Because surviving being cut in half and bombarded with anti-Risen/anti-Elder Dragon cannons isn’t enough to kill an Elder Dragon, then how can we ever know that we kill the others? Because they’re not moving? Because we cut some of them off? Happened with Zhaitan. Even if they show us Jormag’s corpse, we would be able to theorize “oh, he’s just hibernating because Zhaitan was ‘killed’ and brought back too.”

If it’s an extreme, it’s an extreme that folks will go. I’ve seen this community long enough to tell, and when they go about claiming a newborn tree is an Elder Dragon, you hold no doubt that they would theorize something like that. After all, people have been theorizing that Abaddon would return in some way or form despite it being said in-game multiple times he’s dead until Jeff Grubb went and said “Abaddon’s dead and his story’s closed” (hell, even with that and knowing that, people still suspect he may return).

Bloody Zac.8960:

I understand that, but I hate it.

I would much rather they went the Bethesda/Fallout/Elder Scrolls route.

Give the PC/Hero a generic name, i.e. “The Lone Wanderer” or “Dragonborn”, etc.

Hero of Shaemoor/Advocate
Savant
Valiant
Legionnaire/Centurion
Slayer
Initiate
Recruit
Novice
Agent
Crusader
Explorer
Lightbringer
Warmaster
Magister
Commander

There’s a kitten ton of generic names – titles, actually. Commander is the latest one, and probably how the PC will be referred to in voice acting until they leave the second-in-command post in the Pact.

Bloody Zac.8960:

I absolutely agree with you. This should be our story, and no one else’s.

What I was trying to say was that if they went with the “heroic” name, there wouldn’t be a need for an NPC stand-in. Instead of the Lore saying, “Trahearne killed Zhaitan” it could say, “The Hero of Shaemoor killed Zhaitain” (obviously, it would be something other than “Hero of Shaemoor”)

It’s the same way Bethesda handles lore. “The Dragonborn saved Skyrim” or “The Lone Wanderer defeated the Enclave” rather than, “Three-Dog killed the Enclave”.

If that makes sense.

It’ll probably be “Destiny’s Edge and the Commander killed Zhaitan” or “The Pact, led by the Commander, killed Zhaitan” – Trahearne wasn’t there, and he openly regrets not being there in the second instance of The Source of Orr and the second instance of Victory of Death. I doubt they’ll say he killed Zhaitan. I’d be surprised if they don’t just go “The Pact did it” actually, since that’s how they handled Nightfall (Kormir with a group of Sunspears).

That would be the Elder Dragons keeping magic in check, not checking magic. But syntax regardless, I would imagine that the mere act of using magic would… use it up. Besides, given how they consume until there’s no magic and little life left each cycle, I doubt they’re a natural part of the equation – and if they aren’t, then either nature dictates self-harm (which isn’t very likely) or there’d be a natural stop to the flow of magic/another natural means of removing magic than Elder Dragons eating it.

Though that does bring an interesting postulation – if the Elder Dragons are killed, and there is no other way to keep the supposed constant influx of magic in check, what happens if there’s too much magic?

If too much magic is harmful, then it’s only logical for there to be a natural means to prevent there being too much. If my theory that Elder Dragons are formed from coalesced magic, then the act of there being too much magic in the world may result in an Elder Dragon.

The theory being that, based on the description of Kralkatorrik from Edge of Destiny (him turning into a sandstorm, Glint saying he’s “more magical than physical”) and the shape of Zhaitan, that the appearance of being draconic is just “coincidental” (read: Author’s law – it just happens to be that they take draconic form, there’s no lore reason why they’re dragons, they just are) and they’re nothing more than eldritch abominations formed from magic, becoming slowly sapient via learning what those they corrupt know.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Most zones in GW1 had those mountains too, but at different places. It’s just Anet’s way of fencing in the zones, in lore, those hills don’t exist.

This.

Alternative explanation: Primordus did it.

At least Anet was good enough to make use of the Great Northern Wall by having that as a zone boundary for three zones.

Martinulus.1760:

“No dragons?” The storyline shouts Jormag and Primordius at us, I don’t quite believe there will be no dragons involved by the end. I mean, steam vents opening beneath Wayfarer Foothills and Earthquakes in Diessa Plateau? Sounds like Elemental stuff to me, and if I understand the lore well enough, that means dragons.

There are no elementals tied to the Elder Dragons, unless they’re corrupted (e.g., Icebrood Elemental, Branded Earth Elemental). Unless you just meant element-related.

And maybe what we take as “shouts Jormag and Primordus” is just them intentionally being vague so we keep on guessing. But at this point, I’m not expecting Jormag and Primordus. I hope to be proven wrong though.

snargles.2137:

Also the use of sonic weapons to kill the merchant is would lead to dredge. The key needs to be in the placement of the Dead Merchant. Unless he was put there after he was killed he was too close to something. The closest thing to him is the Warm Spring Grotto but I do not know how that would be involved other than being an entrance/exit point.

The only thing he’s placed near is a bunch of Sons of Svanir (both to the south and to the north). But the burn marks and bleeding from the ears don’t match that.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

One thing that hasn’t been noted here yet, the refugee coordinator in the Black Citadel says that the charr refugees were driven from their posts by Flame Legion. Also, the herald in the Black Citadel confirms that the Wayfarer Foothills are having dredge trouble- although, strangely, none of the new NPCs in Hoelbrak mention them.

I hadn’t been to Black Citadelor Diessa yet, so I’ll check that out now.

Edit: Ah, yes, he does mention Flame Legion. However, it seems that things were chaotic and they’re still shaken so it may not be the case since the account he mentions seem to be a “first statements” thing – the shamans of the Flame Legion do look very destroyer-like personally.

Still holding out for dredge attacking with/because of destroyers. Or maybe destroyers got ahold of dredge weaponry.

Thalador.4218:

The Inquest use lightning-based weapons, so I doubt they are behind it. If it’s a new type of dredge weaponry that combines sonic and fire attacks, I’d be inclined to say they are cooperating with the Flame Legion to a certain degree.

I haven’t been to Diessa yet now that the prelude is on, but it’s certainly a place where both factions are there in force: dredge harassing charr quarries in the northwest as well as having a mining facility there while Flame Legion can be found throughout the region. By the time of Zhaitan’s death the corrupt dredge faction and the Flame Legion have suffered serious losses. Perilious, hard times may result in unlikely alliances when the enemies are mostly common. The enemy of my enemy…

True, though, a dredge/Flame Legion alliance still sounds odd to me. Dredge hate all surface dwellers – the only reason, I believe, they dealt with the Inquest was because asura are from the Depths too. The only connection between dredge and Flame Legion I see is that they both hold ties to destroyers.

If Flame/destroyer alliance, I hope they’re cooperating because the Flame wants to use the dredge and their destroyers which they control thanks to the Inquest for their own personal gain (destroying the other three legions) and are simply helping the dredge assault the norn “menace” to their east.

However, given all this… where’s the Frost part? Flame=destroyers or Flame Legion by all accounts, but I’d hardly call dredge “frost.”