Guild Wars 2

Thruln never mentions the Giganticus Lupicus, just “giant races” – which, naturally, one would think to include jotun, norn, ogres, G-Lupe, and the generic “Giants” (possibly the tall kodan as well, though that’s unlikely).

Despite my constant misgivings about Thruln’s information, I think this Age of Giants did exist – but that norn weren’t a part of it, and simply added for the sake of tales twisted to fit the audience. I suspect this Age of Giants occurred between 2 and 3 ED rises ago, or 3 and 4 ED rises ago – which I would place as 6,000-2,000 BE (roughly) or 10,000-6,000 BE (roughly) (side note: my research has led me to believe the ED risings span about 1,000 years each and begin roughly around 10,000 BE, 6,000 BE, 2,000 BE, and now 1,000 AE – usually having a rounded average of 3,000 year span between the risings, though with this one being oddly sooner (I suspect due to the Bloodstone – both its creation and Abaddon’s spreading of magic, if the hypothesis that the ED rise based on magic levels in the world holds – alternatively, it could be due to how races survived and were brought to Tyria by the Six, if they awake based on the amount of life on the world)).

Lodestones in GW1 were, I believe, pieces of elementals – in other words, magical stones. So the lodestones in GW2 are likely of the same degree, considering how they come from elemental beings (be they natural elemental beings, or corrupted dragon minions tied to elements).

Only because you’re ignoring parts of my posts, tbh – like how you have yet to explain where Koda, Mellaggan, and other gods fit into this, or how the very nature of what the Six Gods, Spirits of the Wild, and Elder Dragons are vastly differ (six divine beings with sway over the Mists; guardian spirits of an entire race per spirit; and magic-eating ancient beings that corrupt everything) – and probably more. Just as you outright stated to have not bothered reading the post I pointed such out in.

The only parts of your posts that I’ve ignored are those which I don’t hold disagreement with – e.g., when you said that Jormag might have absorbed energy from eating Owl in your defense of me bringing up how when a god dies, their divine energies go chaotic but when an Elder Dragon dies such doesn’t occur (or, as far as we know, for Spirits of the Wild). I can’t recall a single instance where I ignored a point you made about my position being the invalid part – only when you were defending the validity of your “theory.”

I never said you said I used it as a proper noun. You asked if there’s anything called Serpent as a proper noun, I said no and that Curuniel seemed to have simply meant it in a general hypothetical sense. So unless I’m completely misunderstanding that post of yours, you’re not disagreeing with Curuniel either.

As mentioned, there were three Guild Wars in the history of the game that lasted for nearly a thousand years – with breaks spanning from a few years to a couple decades.

Arguably, you had warring guilds in GW1 even (Stone Summit were called a guild; Shining Blade and White Mantle could be called guilds; Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood are, though called gangs, could be considered guilds – all of which warred).

While it’s possible Anet can include a new Fourth Guild War that’s multi-racial rather than human-centric, I don’t see it happening anytime soon. Mainly because the races are smart enough to realize there are still too many external threats.

I’ve read every post of yours fully and though I may not have responded to each bit, never ignored them. Those I didn’t respond to I simply had nothing to say about.

Both Destroyer weapons and Corrupted weapons (aka Icebrood-corrupted weapons) are a bit odd to me. One would think that, like the Sanguinary Blade (which uses a Corrupted Sword… or greatsword model) or the amulets infused with Zhaitan’s magic (such as the one Howl had), they would corrupt the wielder. Same with the Arah dungeon weapons, tbh.

But based on the materials, they’re made from destroyers and icebrood, given how you need Destroyer Lodestones and Corrupted Lodestones respectively.

Though it can be rp’d that they were obtained from fallen destroyers/icebrood (even Sons of Svanir actually), given how they wield those weapons.

Destroyer weapons seem to be weapons created out of rock and lava, while icebrood weapons are standard weapons coated with Jormag’s ice. Both are crafted utilizing pieces of the respective enemy, and both could be RP’d to have been picked up by fallen enemies as well.

There was already a now fairly old thread about this. You can sum it down to these two things:

1. Norn on a whole do not judge based on groups of affiliation. You may say you’re a Son of Svanir, but to most (read: not all) norn, that doesn’t mean jack squat. Not until you start killing, maiming, and corrupting. Basically, as long as you don’t cause trouble, most norn – especially in Hoelbrak – you’ll be welcomed.

If you need an example – think of the USA’s first amendment: freedom of speech. By law, you’re allowed to say whatever you want and though individuals might get kitten and provoked, to those in power they won’t legally do anything against you until you start acting on what you say (though you’ll be watched with just words anyways, much like how the Wolfborn watch the Sons in Hoelbrak).

2. The Arcane Council are, for lack of a better word, corrupt. They want progress and innovation and most importantly asuran dominance – and the Inquest supplies that. If other groups provide the same results with less casualties (such as the MIG from Dynamics storyline), then the Arcane Council will hold no issues with going with that “other group” whomever they may be. Because the Inquest produce results, the Arcane Council has decreed them legal in Rata Sum and neighboring areas – and they turn a blind eye to those who claim the Inquest stole from them.

If you actually read my post, you’d have noticed that I outright stated that it hasn’t been used as a proper noun.

(side note: NPC names are, unless an actual name or title like Vizier Khilbron, would be normally lowercased – e.g., it’s moa and not Moa; rift warden and not Rift Warden, etc. – the game just automatically capitalizes all the first letter of all NPC names’ words.)

Well, GW1 orrian undead had a lot of eagle/wing motifs and Khilbron held lightblue mainly in color (but the army varied a bit in color – but three of em had a similar scheme color-wise to Khilbron). Here’s the GW1 Orrian armor we saw:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Skeleton_ranger.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Skeleton_monk.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Skeleton_mesmer.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Skeleton_elementalist.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Zombie_warrior.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Zombie_monk.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Zombie_necromancer.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Zombie_Horseman.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Vizier_Khilbron.jpg

As for Orr flag/emblem, the best we got afaik is this:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:Orr_Emblem_Big.jpg

Which follows the same coloring, more or less. But this is all GW1. I haven’t really paid attention to GW2 color schemes or emblems of Orr, now that I think about it.

<Party leader>: “What about you, Kormir? Are you an innocent as well?”
Dunkoro: “What? Kormir is the most honorable of the Sunspears.”
Kormir: “No. You are right. I am far from innocent, and my crimes are the greatest of all.”
Kormir: “It was I that found the inscriptions in Istan, and I that awakened the Apocrypha of Abaddon.”
Dunkoro: “It is not your fault, Kormir, how could you have known?”
Kormir: “Tales of the forbidden ruins are part of our history. My curiosity and concern made me ignore those warnings.”
<Party leader>: “Even though you knew it to be an evil place, you explored the ruins.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gate_of_Pain_%28cinematic%29

Though only a portion of the cinematic, it’s pretty blatant that the PC is outright blaming (at first in the form of question), and that it’s Dunkoro who’s more taken aback rather than the PC.

Raising undead isn’t really in of itself “disrespectful” – especially since, lorewise, minions are made from the bones and tissues of corpses (basically, minions are scrambled corpses!).

As for what Death Shroud is, I kind of figured it to be giving a more physical form of death and necromantic magic – Reaper of Grenth human racial skill is a lot like Death Shroud, and kind of seems to be doing the same thing by calling upon Grenth, but is a bit weaker since it can be used by non-necromancers (who, while in Death Shroud, I’d say are able to further manipulate what makes it). Not so much as “energy armor” but along the same concept.

PopeUrban.2578:

Remember that Fahranur was off limits for a reason, even enchanted to be guarded forever by the ghosts of dead sunspears.

Er… those ghosts weren’t there as enchanted guardians – at least I’ve never seen this being indicated. They’re just ghosts of the area – much like the restless undead there. And on a quick check of all related dialogue, I see nothing to imply such. Those ghosts were warning Kormir not to (re)enter the area and she just ignored them. The Kournans likely did the same.

PopeUrban.2578:

the invincible ghosts protecting it, which I’d imagine would prove nearly insurmountable for an army of any size.

Ghosts are far from invincible. Let alone those in Fahranur. Remember how we killed ghosts to get through? Or had to prevent Kormir from easily killing them?

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

So they rationalize backwards from that point so they can find something to blame on her, to get a reason to hate her other than “sister stole my godhood!”.

We’re not talking about hte player’s unreasonable hate for the character, but the lore reason why Nightfall started – Kormir and the PC blames her for beginning Nightfall. Which while she’s not innocent, is a bit more than what’s true.

@achensherd: Well, per that interview with Ree me and Lutinz mentioned (sadly, I don’t know which interview it was or where to find it), she had no manipulation over Jennah. So if it was her plan to get Logan to free the charr prisoners… how the hell would she be able to get Logan to do such by only calling him to Ebonhawke. Besides, she considers doing that as one of her biggest mistakes.

@Ashebyrne: Jennah does have more (magical) strength than what Logan gives her credit for. He’s an over-protective boyfriend figure, and fails to realize that Jennah can take care of herself (and has Anise to help her out otherwise). The only time she really needed Logan’s protection was when Ebonhawke was assaulted by the newly made Branded.

As I see it, each member of Destiny’s Edge has some sort of emotional “disorder” (as modern society deems it) – with Logan being the overprotective type (and Eir’s suffering from depression; Zojja’s overly attached to the point of obsessed with Snaff; etc.).

Edge of Destiny does a kitten poor job of portraying a lot of things – no offense to the writer (I blame all the restrictions such a story had and Anet’s choice of pulling someone from outside Anet and not working with him as close as they did for GoA).

As Lutinz said, Ree said that the love between them is real.

Furthermore, when you play a human during the level 28 storyline – where you face Kellach with the order of your choice – you can talk to Jennah after the battle and she goes on about how she wants a partner and not another servant (in response to the PC saying she could just order Logan to stay since she doesn’t want him to leave).

(Edit: As I see Lutinz also said).

Well the only fact that’s contradictory is the one from the Orrian History Scrolls. Everything else points to humanity coming from a continent other than Cantha that’s “likely south of Cantha and Elona.” Other than that, regarding the gods’ appearance, would be whether or not the forgotten were brought to the world by the Six Gods.

It’s more that PvP and WvW often ignore lore for the sake of player competition – they only receive the basics of lore behind them.

Technically, it appears just before the Orders storyline. Unless you’re counting the racial storylines that deal with all three orders as part of the Orders storyline (most don’t since they’re still race-specific).

They didn’t ignore it completely – it’s just that the manuals are written in beta/pre-beta, so lore changes while in development.

I never claimed that it was “unlikely” – I only claimed that you never showed it as anything more than unlikely. I have always stood by the stance of it being impossible, and if you read the rest of my post, you’d have seen even more evidence that debunks your “theory.”

BTW, a theory is a tested hypothesis to hold solid evidence. Where is your solid evidence? An interpretation of an interview? A possibility presented in another which is by no means the actual situation – which you yourself have nulled into being unnecessary for your “theory?” Because those are the two “facts” that you’re coming from as far as I see it, and you just extend from there creating a connection between three groups of powerful beings that show only a relation between two of said groups but not the third (the Elder Dragons) while also completely ignoring all other powerful beings (as I pointed out in my previous post).

You’re right, this is becoming a waste of both our times, since you’re not even reading my posts fully as you just said.

I think Curuniel meant that if the word was capitalized it’s meant to be a proper noun, otherwise it’s just a descriptive term to mean “a snake or snake-like.”

If there is a being called Serpent, it’s probably a Spirit of the Wild for snakes – and we’re told that there’s a Spirit of the Wild for every animal.

As far as I remember, there was always coal there – yes, even before the second BWE. Either way, during the BWE that line you quoted was pretty much verbatim what the Battery Commander NPC beneath the Plaza of Remembrance said. Besides, with the direction of that little ramp, that thing should lead into the Bane (which would make a lot more sense than being a ramp from the prison that leads to the city’s primary defense against an endless stream of murderous ghosts).

Also, turns out that said Battery Commander gives more info if you’re a Whisperer – the cannons are obsolete but the ghosts there are “less of a threat” and the meeting is regarding possible upgrades that could make them far more efficient and possibly powerful enough to remove the ghosts for good.

The dialogue may have changed and NPCs added, but still – the “restricted meeting” and the guard who talks about that is at the place I mentioned.

But AFAIK the jail NEVER had such a thing – it always had only 3 NPCs – the jailor and two prisoners. And the only storylines that influences the instance are the Gladium and Shaman Sire ones, which only replaces the two prisoners with the sire.

I know what you’re talking about, but the location you’re remembering is completely wrong. The meeting is in a blocked elevator just beneath the Plaza of Remembrance in Memorial Quadrant. The weapon, iirc, is being used to kill ghosts coming from “Haunted Nolani.”

The NPCs are still in-game.

I’m pretty sure all humans came to Tyria at one time,though the Orrian History Scrolls claims it was at Arah – which I doubt given human history’s known fallacies and how humans are said to have first arrived on continental Tyria via ships hundreds of years after they’ve been on Cantha. But there’s a few key points that really give us an origin denotation to humanity.

From An Empire Divided

• “Even in Tyria, we humans have forgotten where we came from…literally. All that is known of the origin of the Tyrian human race is that our species appeared more than 1,200 years ago on the northern continent. Humans settled Cantha even earlier, however, and appear to have done so on multiple occasions during what Canthans call the Late Pre-Imperial Era. Even less is known about the origin of the Luxon and Kurzick peoples, who arrived on the continent after the tribes that would become modern Canthans settled the northwest coast and Shing Jea Island. The humans of Cantha may have actually originated on Shing Jea, though this has never been proven.”
  • (seems I misremembered that Kurzicks/Luxons came after the northern Canthans, though I am pretty sure I read somewhere the reverse.)
• “Historians doubt the Kurzick nation originated on the Canthan continent, but to this day, even they do not remember whence they came to dwell in the Echovald Forest.”
• “Luxon children still hear stories of their people’s original home, a nameless place far across the open ocean and lost now to the land-bound faction, seemingly forever. Some historians believe that new discoveries point to a Luxon presence in the Crystal Desert more than a thousand years ago, but just as many believe this to be a misinterpretation of the evidence. "
  • (note: those “historians” likely confuse relics of Margonites with being of Luxon origin, given how we learn that historians treat Margonites as myths pre-Nightfall.)

From Orrian History Scrolls

• “The first of the gods to step forth from the mists was Dwayna, goddess of air and life. She placed her pale foot on the stones of Arah, opened the gates, and brought humanity to the world.”

From an interview

• They arrived in the Tyria (the continent) sometime after they first appeared on Tyria (the world). It seems, from their previous appearances, that they have come up from the south, so the “human homeland” may be further south than Elona and Cantha.

From another interview

• I can say that they [the seers] are one of the oldest races of Tyria, dating back long before the Gods brought the humans to the world; to the time of the writing of the Tome of Rubicon. In those ancient days, the Seers fought against the mursaat, but they were in turn defeated by their enemies, and their civilization lost to the ravages of time.

Then the timelines we’re given is that humanity arrived on Tyria and Elona in 205 BE, and on northern coasts of Cantha in 786 BE. The forgotten are said to have arrived on Tyria (never specified which Tyria mind you) in 1769 BE, and they were around during the last ED rise (the only relation between Six Gods and ED we currently have known is that they didn’t know Zhaitan was beneath Arah when they split the Bloodstone).

All indication really puts humanity as having been brought to the world around the 1700s, with forgotten brought up north and humans down south away from the ED conflict. Should the lore on forgotten being brought by the Six still be true, and the implication given by Seiran about the age of dwarven civilization (her saying the oldest ruins from the dawn of said civilization is “over 2,000 years old” which would be odd if it was more than 3,000 years old) be an accurate enough timeframe of 1,000 years for dwarven civilization’s birth, would pinpoint the Six Gods arriving during the last ED rise and using the forgotten to combat them.

Caladbolg is and always was a unique model.

@Narcemus: You wouldn’t have gotten Caladbolg in the BWEs, since it’s only in the lvl 26 and 28 storylines.

Trahearne was kicking kittens? So much for being a hero.

… So that’s why there are three cats in his office…

Actually, they really are being evil for the sake of being evil – they’re being evil because they believe that they’re closer to a sylvari’s “true nature.” There is no ends to be met for it other than making everyone else like them – despite what their recruiters would argue about them wanting to be “balanced” with both light and dark like the Dream.

And I don’t see this possibility. It’s just pure speculation and wishful thinking with no backing – just like the Pale Tree being a dragon champion. There’s no evidence. No implications. No nothing. The only ties there are between Elder Dragons and the sylvari lie solely in the Nightmare and the Nightmare Court’s minions (specifically those husks).

Mordremoth seems to be more in “wants to torture everything” department.

And nothing indicates or implies sylvari are dragon minions – not unless you believe the Nightmare Court’s view of what a “true sylvari” is, but thanks to Malyck we know they’re wrong. Mordremoth might be the source of the Nightmare (and thus is the only ED capable of corrupting sylvari) – to our knowledge), but it doesn’t hold a direct tie to sylvari or any tie to the Pale Tree as it stands.

Calcifire.1864:

if we were talking about some theoretical situation where it was ME getting corrupted, branded, for one thing, they aren’t exactly controlled by krakatorrik, he just owns them (hence being “branded”), they still retain full sentience and free will and carry on normal lives doing whatever they were doing before (risen and icebrood are pretty much mind controlled as well as corrupted, destroyers aren’t sentient and are pretty much elementals on fire), the main difference is they look a lot prettier now, and according to some of the charr in the branded areas, if you don’t destroy every part of a branded, they reform.

You’re a bit wrong here.

They’re called Branded because they’re named after the Dragonbrand (called the Brand for short).

Branded are mindless – except, like for every dragon minion case, the stronger ones that make up the lieutenants and champions. You’re probably getting the misconception that they’re not controlled due to the ogre chieftan in Edge of Destiny, but he’d be fitting one of the champions or lieutenant figures. Whether they retain sentience is actually questionable, but they certainly don’t have free will – not even champions do, for that matter.

Also, it’s risen mooks, not branded ones (at least as far as I know) which go about doing what they were doing when corrupted – that’s why you see risen in Orr mining, farming and so forth when they’re not aggroed.

Yes, really. Trahearne has died on me in the past, but he’s never died with only one or two foes on him (unless it was an abomination). Clearly that video was rigged. Or my Trahearne beats the snot out of all of yous’ Trahearnes.

Trahearne’s a scholar, not a fighter. Caithe’s closer to the “creme de la creme.” (also, Trahearne kills plenty for me, and dies seldomly, compared to how folks complain about him – he only dies if I let him solo 3+ enemies (fewer if vet/champ is included) and hell, he’s solo’d a champ or two in my personal story before – ‘sides, he can’t be some super-powered NPC for the same reason Destiny’s Edge can’t be, they’d make the game easymode (well, supereasymode – it’s already easymode)).

You don’t get it Oglaf… in 250 years, during Guild Wars 3, the sylvari would have outnumbered the other races by their hundreds of newborn sylvari a day birthrates that they drove the “simple animal” races to near extinction simply by shear numbers.

GW3 will feature but one race as playable: sylvari.

1. From dictionary.com

di·vin·er
noun
1. a person who divines; soothsayer; prophet.
2. a person skilled in using a divining rod.

2. I did read your post. But what others do is irrelevant in the long run. Anet has mentioned many times that they don’t want to make just another copy of an MMO – and they prevent this not just in their mechanics but also in their lore. Yes, there are references – especially from GW1 – but if you take note, there are no Greek mythos Titans in Guild Wars. The Six Gods have predecessors (some of them), and the gods themselves are gigantic (at least some of the time/some of them), but those predecessors are just gods. There were also Titans in GW1, but they were not forefathers of the gods. There’s nothing to indicate that this thing is along the same lines.

3. a. Really? ZHaitan looks like a human with bat wings and an octopus for a head? He looks nothing like that. Not even if you put it in “dragon form.” The closest part is that he has “tendrils” coming from his mouth – but those aren’t tentacles but smaller dragon heads/necks.

b) The Outer Gods don’t live in cycles, iirc (it has been a while since I’ve delved into Cthulhu mythos mind you). The Elder Dragons in this regard are more akin to the hundreds upon hundreds – and many are far older than H.P.Lovecraft – world cycle concepts where some force or calamity “resets” the world where life begins anew. Plus, when the ED awaken, not everything gets destroyed – its all corrupted or devoured, until there’s nothing left to do such to, where they then hibernate to let it regrow. Very different.

c. You didn’t play the personal story did you? Some parts of the ED are being understood, actually. But as I said, this is the closest similarity.

d. 1 cult, which doesn’t really amount to a cult TBH, and holds next to no similarity with any cult of the “primitive” people that Lovecraft put said cults in (as opposed to the Sons of Svanir who are of one of the most advanced races).

4. When I said tribe, I was referring to the tribal people which Lovecraft tends to use for the cults basis. And nope, don’t see Cthulhu in Zhaitan. Because Zhaitan isn’t an octopus head. Nor is he related to the depths of the ocean. And I wasn’t saying there aren’t cults. Stop misinterpreting me. I said there are non like the Sons of Svanir – again, that I recall/read (as said, it’s been a while). Sons of Svanir are sexist, of among the most advanced races, hates everything that’s not them more or less, seeks power and glory through Jormag, and views Jormag to be on par but the best of all other deity figures.

5. What I meant was that stuff unique to GW2 (you listed many things that came from GW1, btw – I’ll get to that in a bit) tends to be more original than most, but those which carry from GW1 tend to be brought even more accurate to the mythological roots than most archtypal fantasy story views. For example:
a. Where is there a woman who turns into a spider in GW2? Because I’ve not seen such.
b. Play Eye of the North. Also – wiki is your friend “Bungarus, commonly referred to as kraits (pronounced “Kra-its”), is a genus of venomous elapid snakes found in South and South-East Asia." Snake people is far far FAR more common than Greek mythology (Chinese naga, for example), by the way.
c. Hardly. He was designed to be a dragon made out of dragons – though the final product hardly looks like such aside from the many heads, wings, and tails.
d. Celtic, actually. And the concepts are vastly different – sylvari hold a lot of influence form celtic and gaelic but that’s pretty much all – influence. Same with norn from norse. If you take note, Wild Hunts are when fae go on a hunt during which they may hunt down humans in their path. Norn in Norse mythos are three sisters of fate. etc.
e. Ehhh, no he didn’t. Amorphous oozes predate Lovecraft and are very generic. Also, Eye of the North.
f. Right, names and influences, but sylvari don’t come from anything.
g. True, the name comes from real religions, but 1) Eye of the North and 2) they’re not archtypal.
h. Dredge don’t come from anything, but as said, they do hold influences. Also: Prophecies.
i. This is the strongest aspect of taking mythology directly, and this point I concede, but I never did say Anet holds no influence.
j. A common concept spread throughout the world (even if highly misused) by now. Though originates from Hindu, it’s not a reference to Hinduism.
k. Ehhh, that’s debatable. Anet rarely makes direct references to the same mythological character/object. And Eye of the North had Jormungand.

You need to learn the difference between “influence” and “reference” from what an archtype is. Because you’re only listing the former, but I’m talking about the latter.

Diviners are not just those who do the bidding of deities (that’s actually a very narrow view of what diviners are, and is about as false as portraying the Greek Titans as titanic). Diviners are, first and foremost, those who divine – that is to say, they are seers, fortune tellers, prophets, and the like. The name comes from the verb divine, rather than the adjective divinity.

Anyways, Anet have portrayed that with GW2, they want to avoid archetypes. Centaurs, minotaurs, and most other things coming from common mythologies are all from GW1. You’ll note that those things which are GW2-exclusive seldom reference other things – and when they do, they’re much more accurate than your standard fantasy game (dwarves turning into stone, for example, is part of Norse mythology though done in a very different mean – Tolkien took this aspect of dwarves in Norse mythos and gave it to cave trolls, that is they turn to a statue (dying in the process) when touched by sunlight). Even the Elder Dragons, while sharing the same concept of the Cthulhu mythos as being beings that can’t be understood because they’re so ancient and different, are still vastly different from anything I’ve seen in Cthulhu mythos (and comparing the Sons of Svanir to the Cthulhu mythos tribe seems terribly off too, for that matter! The mentality is completely different unless you remember a story I didn’t read).

@Narcemus: Canthans were not the original settlers. Luxons have really old tales of coming from another land across an ocean, and they and Kurzicks predate the northern Canthans on the continent. They came from somewhere else – Jeff Grubb implied somewhere to the south of Cantha in an interview.

Similarly, nothing implies that Tyrians/Elonians come from Cantha.

And I don’t think the Spirits of the Wild have realms. Raven himself is tied to the Underworld, after all (and similarly, the charr believe in the Realm of Torment). Also, norn call the Hall of Heroes the “Hall of Spirits.”

Narcemus.1348:

It’s a thorn, thorn’s aren’t always known to take root and grow :P

Bark, technically, but your point still stands.

Curuniel.4830:

Side note: looking at the Wizard’s Folly Tower now in the link above, the base actually looks like the jotun standing stone type things you can find in norn lands. Which is odd? It would make sense for jotun architecture to have once been more complex, but I don’t know if the stones we see in GW2 were always intended to be standing stones (fits with an astronomical alignment thing) or are the remnants of another style. Anyway, idle speculation!

[Edit]: Looking at it some more, the greenish-metallic parts higher up do resemble Dwarnven structure a lot, and the combination of that material plus the chains reminds me of things like the Frost Gate. So Dwarven or Dwarven built atop jotun..?

Interesting observations, but I can’t see a connection between that tower and jotun. For a few reasons: Firstly, jotun monuments are a single stone per side – that tower is, like any Ascalonian structure, just a lot of large blocks. Secondly, there’s none of those circle designs that all jotun monuments holds. Thirdly, and most importantly, jotun weren’t even a figment in the developers’ mind when that was made.

The style of the tower is fairly Ascalonian, I think.

Bathos.6341:

Looks from this, like a playable Tengu race may already be in development. I hope so, an Avian race is not something I’ve seen as an option in many games.

That was concept art for Guild Wars Utopia – a scrapped project, and for NPCs from 2007. One of the models was reused in Eye of the North as the Quetzal tribe.

@Signatics: “did he supplant him after he arrived on Tyria or before that time?” That was actually my point – you said that five gods came to Tyria, and that only Dwayna, Balthazar, Melandru, and Lyssa came to Tyria – but we don’t know whether or not Abaddon, Dhuum, or Lyssa did.

“Dwayna and the other gods most likely had predecessors too before they arrived on Tyria.” I disagree. There’s indications – albeit very very minor – that Dwayna and Melandru may not have predecessors (the Hall of Heroes and like-structures have a lot of winged female statues, and both Dwayna and Melandru are depicted as winged females, so there’s likely a connection in this).

“Lyssa and Abaddon must have come after. Or else Lyssa could have never been in Wren and Abaddon never in the Crystal Desert.” Sorry, but I’m not sure I understand what you mean. Scenario 1 is that the two came from the Mists; Scenario 2 is that they were born on Tyria (world) and ascended on Tyria (world), and the line about Grenth being the “first born god of Tyria” refers to the continent. Neither scenario would prevent Lyssa from being in Wren or Abaddon in the Crystal Sea (technically, Abaddon never was in the Crystal Desert, as it was formed from his fall). And we know for a fact they were in those respective places.

@Curuniel: Lyss was never explicitly referred to as Lyssa, technically. That was an assumption by players because Vabbians revere Lyssa so much and at the time we hadn’t a clue the twins even had their own separate names, let alone one could be named Lyss. The Festival of Lyss and Mirror of Lyss likely refers to Lyss alone, rather than the combination of Lyss and Ilya.

@Infamous: I think there’s a Tribune in the Searing Effigy path of CoF too – killed by said Searing Effigy.

@Curuniel: Thing is, we’re outright told that the Flame Legion fell to civil war when Baelfire died, as there are multiple factions working to fill the throne of Imperator (one side wanting to bring Gaheron back, the other sides being Tribunes). The three biggest attempts were stopped, of course. So the “best case scenario” occurred – but instead of leaving them to fight amongst themselves, the Pact went high and mighty and killed the squabblers.

What happened after such is left unknown.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I think the problem I have with that theory is that it really doesn’t look like Rata Sum at all. The structure is so different.

Huh? It looks just like the College of Dynamics corner (the NW corner). At the bottom is the Peacemaker’s jail, and the second level (where the first cat golem is) would be the crafting stage.

Of course, there are a couple differences, such as a lack of the crafting stations, but overall I think off of memory it’s all the same. The only layout differences I see would be how to ascend levels (the inside ramps, especially the one with the laser-like stuff you gotta jump over), but the rest is fairly the same.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

fell to the ground etc.

Actually, its the corner we’re on that fell to the ground – but its resting on a cliff, so the points we can fall off of would be going off of said cliff.

Mystic Starfish.2586:

The rabbit, I think, is in the actual Rata Sum jail too.

So I keep hearing. But when I go to the jail I see a chicken who’s owner is unknown, an asura who doesn’t know what he’s done, a bear form norn who’s called a “talking bear,” and another mad scientist asura.

It’s pretty much impossible for mobs to keep their difficulty from GW1 into GW2, otherwise standard skale would be able to wipe the floor with anyone but zergs. GW1 was designed for teams, and while GW2 has more skills per person, the abilities and range of skills are reduced, and the game is meant to be solo’able (in other words, it’s 100% intended for Aatxes to be solo’able – what you complain about).

What I wish they’d do is add some Champion Bladed Aatxes in the Shadow Behemoth event (chain). Since its a group event already, and very easy, a couple champs (or hell, even vets) would be welcomed.

“This temple is as old as Kryta itself. Even before the tribes were united into a single kingdom, it was known to all that these swamps were sacred, a final resting place for the dead. Grenth was the first god to have a statue here, but the others were erected soon after.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Brother_Theophilus

On a quick search, that’s all I found. I think some of the info I remember – if I’m not just misremembering – comes from the Art of Guild Wars (unlike the Factions and Nightfall artbooks, the Prophecies one had some lore put into it – including the Krytan burial rites).

Thalador.4218:

Excelliate.7914:

It could also be that the old statues were built to display the favor of the gods, but now that the gods are gone, they wouldn’t work as such.

Regarding this, I find it very odd that Malchor, a citizen of highly magical Orr, created these beautiful yet absolutely ordinary statues, while the new versions we saw and encountered in GW1 all the time were sculpted in a way to only work with the gods’ magic/favor.

Balthazar’s lit on fire, Grenth’s was surrounded by a shroud of icy mist, Dwayna’s rose up and rebuilt itself, defying gravity, Lyssa’s cast away the stony thorns that grew on the twins and shone with unearthly radiance, Melandru’s tree bloomed and water started to trickle from the jug in her stone form’s hands. All of these reflected the power and domains of the gods. Malchor’s versions are a perfect depictions and really grasp the very being of each of the human gods, but I miss the magical visuals. I reckon that back in the day when they hadn’t pulled back yet those statues did show that the depicted god was watching, but I really doubt in the same awesome way GW1 statues did.

For that matter, I’m really interested who was the sculptor of the newer set of statues.

Ratphink.4751:

As for the effects, I think it’s largely because of the silence of the Gods. Remember that the previous statues in GW1 were only displaying those effects when we had Favour of the Gods. However now the Gods are Silent, so arguably we’re just in a prolonged case of no favour of the Gods.

I believe the new statues were inspired by the Malchor ones. However I’m not entirely positive of this, so somebody feel free to jump in and correct me if I’m wrong here.

Well, in Orr, you have magical effects for the statues still – when the risen have the respective temples. I imagine that if Anet went with the old versions in Orr, they’d be using designs like the GW1 favor system.

As I see it, both the favor system and the temple system is a case of the statues showing their divine magic versus not doing so.

Furthermore, wasn’t it said that in GW1 those statues were all busted and whatnot, and “fixed themselves” whenever we had favor? It wasn’t that they had magic because we had the gods’ favor, but rather that the gods went and fixed them (or the favor caused the statues to repair themselves).

The Grenth’s Door statue in Lornar’s Pass (the one in the temple that in GW1 allowed access to the Underworld) is said to still radiate divine magic during the Priory storyline, iirc.

As to the designer of the new statue – Malchor’s statues were taken to the gods’ temples. This means those huge kitten statues that stand high above the temples? Those are likely Malchor’s own personal design (that would include the one in Abaddon’s Cathedral of Hidden Depths). Though it might be that Malchor’s statues disappeared/were removed overtime, sans the Dwayna and Balthazar ones – for some reason, those two temples have an additional unique statue (Balthazar’s being a commune skill point instead of an altar, Dwayna’s being part of the meta). This is the unique Balthazar statue – seen in only one other place, titled “Ancient Statue of Balthazar” and is mostly buried (you can only see the head and top of greatsword).

Something interesting to note about these two statues: they’re in the same stance as the GW1 ones. Obviously altered differently and more detailed, but these two share the same stance nonetheless. (Edit: Okay, the statue of Dwayna is slightly different via a leg being behind another and her back arched a bit more – though the GW1 statue’s legs are practically non-existent).

And the GW1 statue of Dwayna is also said to be a statue design by Malchor – but unfinished.

Well, it might have “started” with the titans that showed before the Burnt Warband, since those showed up around the same time the Shiro incident began.

Just theorycrafting, but I think it really started with Lord Odran opening those portals. Why else would two/three agents of Abaddon head into the world at the same time a couple years after Odran opened his portals (give him time to have died in the Hall of Heroes after exploring)?

I wouldn’t doubt that’s why they didn’t have armless snakes, however, they could have easily used naga models which are of Canthan-origin.

Actually, Sigmatics, Abaddon has an unknown predecessor. So he wasn’t among the original six either (though TBH, any of the other four or even Dhuum may have had a predecessor).

And nothing says Lyssa came to Tyria either. We’re told that Grenth was the first Tyria-born god, however there’s no context to the word “Tyria” (world or continent? Grenth by all indications was born in Orr). And even if it meant the world, that comes from human sources which as we all know have been altered by the gods once already (and Lyssa’s attributed with making people forget in that very source…).

We only know that Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru came to the world, and that Grenth and Kormir were born on the world. Whether Dhuum, Lyssa, or Abaddon came from the Mists is still left in the air.

That’s a different situation. I was referring to their spread of settlement that occured before 100 BE, not the Charr Invasion of 1070-1 AE.

And they might have gone through the Crystal Desert to Orr – there’s only 2 passes into the Shiverpeak Mountains – one’s at Ascalon Foothills (GW1)/Diessa Plateau (GW2), and the other is up north at Grothmar Wardowns (GW1). There’s no easily climbable pass into the Shiverpeaks further south than that – and the northern one is the one used to get to Kryta.

Why would they put a foe that can one or two shot GW2 characters (take a look at your build, it isn’t like what’s available in GW2 at all) in a level 15 area?

An aatxe, by nature, is a “nightmare” – a soul that holds a lot of negative emotion and became hostile. They’re not some uber killing machines of the Underworld. They’re just natural inhabitants. So exactly why do all aatxes need to be Bladed Aatxes? TBH, if they had Bladed Aatxes rather than Aatxes, chances are that they would be weaker so that there can be many in an area. Keep in mind that GW1 was meant to be played in teams (solo’ing the Underworld, even parts of it, was not in the design intention and also note the video features a ritualist which wasn’t what Bladed Aatxes were balanced for – they were balanced for Prophecies alone, and the Live Team’s poor attempts to rebalance the Underworld failed miserably because they kitten it like they kitten Hard Mode); on the other hand, GW2 is intended to be ~85% solo’able. Only group events (including champions) and dungeons in PvE aren’t meant to be solo’able.

In other words, because the developers want the game to be solo’able, unlike GW1, they can’t go filling the world with extremely hard mobs – champions are limited to unique corners and group events. Bladed Aatxes in GW1 are solo’able solely because so many new skills were added since the Bladed Aatxes were made that the new skills made the Bladed Aatxes obsolete.

I mean, if you want to get technical, any mob of appropriate level in GW1 is hard to solo unless you create a build specifically for soloing (aka going against the game’s intended design), which is usually only possible thanks to new skills being added since the creatures’ additions into the game (good luck solo’ing Winds of Change content!).

As for the krait – actually, it wouldn’t make that much sense to call them naga in GW2. Because the culture is 100% different, and naga are in Cantha, while the krait were in the Unending Ocean and Tyria’s southern coasts. It’d make a tad bit of sense with Cantha expelling all non-humans, but do you think the naga would cross the entire Unending Ocean to live in Tyria, or do you think they’d just go a few miles off and become raiders in annoyance/hatred to those who kicked them off their lands?