Guild Wars 2

Oglaf.1074:

Skamlic.8041:

It’s Eir’s fault that Snaff died. She could help defeat minions with Logan and then attack elder dragon.

No. No she could not. The Elder Dragon would not just sit around twiddle it’s thumbs waiting for them to return after saving Jennah. It was a once in a lifetime sort of thing.

It was Eir’s choice to remain and fight when Glint herself said that if they worked together they could stand a chance against Kralkatorrik.

It was Eir’s choice not to modify the plan after Logan left.

It was Eir’s words that Logan used as an excuse to leave.

Destiny’s Edge didn’t have to face Kralkatorrik. They didn’t have to use the same strategy designed for all six members being present. They didn’t have to make a stand against Kralkatorrik – they could have had Glint run and hide, or simply abandon her (she’s only important to the humans historically speaking), they as a group could have gone to defend Ebonhawke – Glint included – though that would have just brought the Elder Dragon to Ebonhawke’s doorsteps. But Eir decided to make that stand, a stand intended for six members of Destiny’s Edge, and Snaff died because of that decision.

It’s both of their faults.

plasmacutter.2709:

You go from hero to lackey, and it ceases to be the story of you, and instead the story of Traherne, through the lackey’s eyes.

Is it realistic? yes, but this is a fantasy game.

You do realize that you start as a lackey of your race’s Destiny’s Edge hero. And then go to being a lackey of your mentor (Forgal, Tybalt, or Seiran), and then a “lackey” of Trahearne.

You’re always a lackey to someone to some degree.

But TBH, you’re always in a position – sans the lvl 30-40 storyline where you’re proving your worth to your order – where you have the freedom to chose what you do. But you’re still the lackey. You’re the lackey that makes the decisions and does all the cool stuff. You’re the lackey that gets recognized for being a hero – even within the Pact.

plasmacutter.2709:

Depends on your definition of screwed up. That sword he wields holds the key to freeing his people from the ghosts of ascalon, but he wont surrender it to the humans out of pure arrogance.

That’s only legends. It’s not necessarily true.

Yes, that NPC’s been there since the BWEs. If you wait long enough, that shipment after arrives where she complains and the caravan head mentions something about being stalled but the shipment’s still safe.

Oglaf.1074:

That also seems to be the case actually. Icebrood are not 100% corrupted ice, so they can very much bleed. Nor do I suspect that Jormag’s Claw is 100% corrupted ice through and through. So it seems reasonable to assume that Jormag would not be 100% corrupted ice neither, thus being able to bleed.

Icebrood Colossus says hi.

You cannot take the mechanic of bleeding for lore – I mean, unless you can manage to make rock, crystal, ice, fire, lightning, or burning wood/metal bleed.

The icebrood are a slowly transforming group – if you read Edge of Destiny, you may remember the beginning where an icebrood assault on Hoelbrak occurs. They mention how arrows are only effective if the blood and inner body hasn’t yet frozen into pure ice – given enough time, they will, but not immediately so (unlike Branded).

Oglaf.1074:

1) Your point of his body parts differing in number (as well as being asymmetrical; one arm/claw is huge in comparison to the other. Its the one he clings to the “tower” with in the fight) seem to support the idea that he is indeed made up out of undead dragons. Any and all other dragons you encounter have the same number of limbs, in the same general shape, the traditional dragon shape.

2) Your “melded skin” argument also don’t hold water to me. He uses magic, not simply stitching the body parts together like a third rate Dr. Frankenstein. Of course you’re going to see melding like that going on. Plus, if Zhatain originally was the same “species” of dragon as the ones his body is composed of, naturally you wouldn’t see that big a difference.

1) All that supports is that he has multiple limbs of varying sizes. AKA, he’s an eldritch abomination – which he is.

Also, he has 2 giant kitten claws (and 2 smaller ones) – one large claw, his right one, falls off after he’s struck by those electrical grappling hook stuff that also turned his right wing red and burned preventing him from flying (during the cinematic after the laser).

2) What I meant by the skin was that it’s smooth (without dragon faces) and if you look closely, it has the appearance of just a very skinny, gray, and most importantly NOT rotting body.

Oglaf.1074:

Of course we can’t 100% confirm it, but the evidence strongly points toward it being at least highly plausible.

So why say as if it were fact? When there’s no evidence to the plausibly-made-out-of-dragons being “dead” and even the notion of him being made out of dragons is questionable?

BTW, I’d say that the head is the least original – the most original of Zhaitan’s true body would be the largest set of wings and claws.

They’re not after glory or power. You ignore a very common – far more common than glory – reasons for conquest: resources – which is more or less what one of the two things they’re after: food (aka resource). Another common reason for conquest that you overlooked is just simply territory and control – which is also something they’re after, as well as just general destruction.

They seem to be working under a “I’ll make everything mine, and if I can’t, I’ll destroy it!” mentality – though this is a very general and, imo, poor view on their mentality and they do so for different reasons (by all accounts) and have different methods.

I always figured those claw-like things at the bottom were used for landing. The other stuff, I dunno off the top of my head – would need to look at an in-game helicopter.

It’s still a rather huge assumption to say Zhaitan’s undead just because he’s the Elder Undeath Dragon. It’s be a more reasonable assumption if we knew Primordus was made of fire, or Kralkatorrik out of crystal, or Jormag out of ice. But this isn’t the case for them – Kralkatorrik and Jormag both bleed showing that they’re not crystal and ice respectively (although their blood turns into their respective element when drying).

And if you read my post, I said “yeah, the concept art for Zhaitan’s (last design) body does show multiple dragons being made from the flesh”, but I greatly disagree upon the notion that “His in-game model clearly shows him being made up from the bodies of multiple dragons.” – I’ve argued this in the past though, and don’t feel like repeating the same endless discussion. But to summarize my points: While he does have multiple heads, wings, and tails, these body parts are not only differing in number, but greatly separated from each other (especially the heads), and furthermore the skin is solidly and clearly that of a single being, unlike the concept art’s. And regardless of the skin’s state, for all we know it’s just that he looks like he’s made of many dragons, and not that he actually is.

But in this case, I was not disputing him being made of multiple dragons – as whether he is or isn’t is, imo, irrelevant to the case of him being alive or not. What I was disputing was that he’s made of dead dragons.

What Oglaf said (and what I, and Narcemus also said already) – Orr isn’t floating (on water or on air). Zhaitan isn’t levitating the land. He just pushed it up.

I wonder where people keep getting this “dead” part – yeah, the concept art for Zhaitan’s (last design) body does show multiple dragons being made from the flesh, but his in-game model doesn’t and no where was it ever said those multiple dragons in the concept art were “dead” dragons.

It’s like people’s presumption that the Elder Dragons’ last rise was around 10,000 BE, or that the Giganticus Lupicus went extinct in 10,000 BE (approx.). It’s not actually the case. :/

Jormag didn’t make water (and you weren’t asking that – you simply said “No it’s not” to me saying expecting a shattered mountain to mend with Jormag’s death is the same as expecting Orr to sink with Zhaitan’s). Jormag shattered the mountain range and the valleys/canyons/crevices that were created flooded with the arctic sea’s ocean.

As for the water levels – that’s an oddity in its own right. The rising of Orr shouldn’t have altered much. I mean, take how huge the globe of Tyria found from the Chantry of Secrets data mining is – Tyria is roughly an 16th of the world, which makes the whole of Orr about 1/32th… water levels would only rise and lower a couple inches from Orr’s sinking and rising (Old Lion’s Arch’s sinking can only be explained by stuff sliding down, because it was not 15-30 feet lower than everything else around it – maybe 10, but that’s still stretching it).

TBH, the water levels should have been decending over the past 250 years due to both Jormag and Zhaitan – unless the DSD is adding water to the world, or Jormag’s freezing a lot of water up north so that the surface space of the molecules are expanding (water expands when frozen), or there’s some other places in the world which are sinking.

But again, that’s an entirely different situation.

I’d say she falls into both 2 and 3 of Curuniel’s post.

She does seem to actually love Logan, and she does say she made a big mistake by keeping Logan at her beck and call in the past, which the only such situation we know of is in regards to the Ogre Revolt. But she can’t really be blamed for calling Logan at the time – she was facing an Elder Dragon that just passed by, and the oncoming army of new, unknown, dragon minions – and she had no idea Logan was intending to face off against said Elder Dragon with Glint and Destiny’s Edge.

If she did know, I bet she wouldn’t have called him, and who knows – she might not have been able to pull off the dues ex illusiona in time.

And I’d say she definitely is in the “unite the races” camp – she actively and openly pushed for negotiations with the charr, and is the first known to do so (even before the Vigil’s founding) during Edge of Destiny where she talks about how both charr and human are in the same boat and lets the former prisoners go free (those which survived the branded ogre assault).

There is no Consortium connection to the Fractals – not one that the Consortium intended, at least. The gate linking to Dessa’s lab was actually an accident. It was intended to link to the asura gate in Southsun Cove’s Pearl Islet (there’s a half-made one among the ruins), but the LA one malfunctioned because the Cove one wasn’t made and it somehow linked to Dessa’s lab.

The Consortium is just taking advantage of this one-in-a-billion chance occurrence to make more money, since as you said, they’re just out to make quick money.

Aedrion.6483:

What exactly did we do to him? Shoot off part of his tail, and burn him badly, at which point he let go of and fell down.

Lorewise, he shouldn’t even BE dead, there’s no way that killed him. So to reply to your question: can he survive that or return, very much yes.

Whether he will now or within centuries we can’t say but Zhaitan is not dead.

And if he is, then I’d like to know what the hell was in those cannons we fired at him. :P

It’s not noticable because it’s not part of the cinematic, but we “chop” off more of his body than just his tails.

There’s the laser which cuts off half of three of his tails – which includes two set of wings. Then the “grappling hooks” burn his large right wing, making it crippled, and after the cinematic if you watch him rather than fight the new mobs, you’ll see his right arm (that giant kitten claw) just fall off with stretching skin and ooze-like “blood” spewing forth (probably the one instance in the entire game where something graphically bleeds…).

He was holding onto that tower with one hand, and one wing crippled (his entire right half of his body was basically useless to him thanks to those electrified grappling hooks).

And then we pummeled him with the anti-undead/anti-Elder Dragon/anti-Elder Undead Dragon cannons (it’s never clear which anti it is, just that it’s specifically made to be useful against Zhaitan and his minions).

So during the fight we basically cut off a third of his body, made another third useless, and then barraged him with shiny golden anti-Zhaitan stuff.

Narcemus.1348:

@Konig, there are many areas that had existed in the world that have been entirely wiped out for the sake of the norn starting area, and that was where this feeling first started. I know there are reasons for that, but still it made me sad. I was feeling better when I came to Lornar’s and further, but still it stinks. BTW Tobias there are wooden dwarven ruins at the bottom of a lake, I’m pretty sure they’d last above ground longer than underwater.

Re: norn starting area: Actually, there shouldn’t be any ruins in the norn starting area (read: Wayfarer’s and Snowden Drifts) except Jalis’ Refuge (formerly Maladar’s Fort iirc) and possibly Graggult’s Keep.

Though I’ll admit, the disappearance of the Frost Gate is confusing (I originally thought it to be Frostgate Falls, but that doesn’t seem to be so…).

Regarding the underwater ruins – it depends on the qualities of the water. If there’s a lot of oxygen and bacteria then yes, however if there’s not then no. Given both the extreme cold of the Shiverpeaks and the apparent climate changes of where said ruins are, I can’t see a large variety of bacteria surviving – though I’m no germologist so I may be wrong.

Actually…

Well I would expect orr to fall back in the ocean (like angel island) without Zaitan’s power cause he kinda caused it rise, but you know that won’t happen so w/e.

It has everything to do with your response, since I was talking about whether or not Zhaitan’s power was maintaining its rise.

Zhaitan caused Orr to rise when he woke up, and hasn’t been underground since (as far as we know), and all indications point to it being a one-time no-maintenance event.

Ergo, there’s absolutely no reason for Orr to sink back into the water with Zhaitan’s death. Which has been what I was saying from the get go.

1. So, Buddhakeks, you’re saying that the NPCs which say that the bandits are a united, organized, force with a goal in mind are simply theorizing, despite the fact they’re saying it as a fact? One such NPC being Lieutenant Cassandra (though she doesn’t use the term “united” so feel free to semantically nitpick that one, though iirc, there are NPCs in Harathi and Kessex Hills which mentions the bandits being united as well as Cassandra and others in Brisban).

I suppose that’s possible, but at that point you’re then openly disregarding NPCs who are not otherwise implied to be wrong.

2. You do realize that his “terrible act” was him mocking the White Mantle. It is indeed canon, and it’s also intentionally “terrible.” If you actually pay attention to Logan’s character, you’d notice that when he’s not fervently defending Jennah or mourning how he made a difficult past decision that ended with Snaff’s death, he’s a bit of a jokster. That’s just one case – another that everyone can see is Crucible of Eternity’s story mode.

3. Resettling Istan is a poor comparison. Firstly, it’s a plague – biohazard issues are slow for Tyrians compared to others calamities. And not to mention that regardless of one’s capability to cope from a disaster, you cannot cope a disaster while it’s ongoing, and plagues take a while to dissipate. Secondly, as shown both in the manuals and in-game, there was a superstition about dark magics coming from Fahranur that kept people from returning. The Searing is also a poor example, as it destroyed the ecosystem – a flood only leveled one, but not destroy it. It was impossible to grow plants in Ascalon for a while, whereas after floods it’s very much possible.

4. Volunteers would go wherever they want to go. They’re a wildcard that you cannot say did go to Ascalon (we have no indication that, other than Ascalonian refugees from Ascalon Settlement/Rurikton, folks went to Ascalon to fight). And in regards to the refugees returning to Ascalon, that doesn’t hinder Kryta one bit – because they’re not of Kryta’s original population. If anything, it aids them because they have to give less food to the would-be larger Krytan population. Same, for that matter, as volunteers hindering the government’s actions – the worst case scenario is as you point out, less men to draft, but if the government went and made the White Mantle’s survival public (which they obviously did not), then there’d also be volunteers for Kryta’s war efforts. Considering that in the past 250 years, the battle with the White Mantle has been in the shadows, volunteers never affected it except for recruits into the Shining Blade or those coerced by the White Mantle to become bandits.

5. Anise wasn’t at Caudecus’ party, if you note – nor were any of the Shining Blade. Why? We don’t know though Jennah mentions one of her servants being sick and thus resting inside the mansion, so that servant was likely Shining Blade.

No, the Krytans can’t just hop on a charr character. That’s true. However, they still have communications with groups that are over there who are more interested in watching the Flame Legion’s movements (Ebonhawke, for instance), as well as knowing that there hasn’t been a single Flame Legion movement even close to Kryta since the charr invasion and that the charr on a whole have been occupied with Ascalon; and for that matter, they’d know of the revolution where the Flame Legion were sent packing. Truth be told, I think they’ve been more cautious about the Iron, Blood, and Ash Legions in the past 250 years. Because they actually have manpower that the Flame Legion didn’t.

I highly disagree with the notion that the WM lacks the manpower to overthrow Kryta. They have Caudecus, the most influential man in Kryta and most likely to take power should Jennah die.

And I also highly disagree with your notion of what could happen if the Inquest take over the Arcane Council. Wanna know why? Fun fact: THEY HAVE. Flax is a full out Inquest supporter, and they have a member in the council. They often take projects from the Arcane Council and are fully supported by the Coucnil (so long as other groups don’t create more cost-effective means of the same stuff). If that’s not control of the council, I wouldn’t know what is. Having all members being Inquest? That’s the only more control they can get, but as shown via NPC dialogue, the Inquest already does almost everything the Arcane Council should be doing.

Besides, the asura are so isolationistic and so many hate the Inquest that there’d be a full out revolt of Inquest vs. everyone else who isn’t keeping their nose out of the entire deal. Unlike Kryta, the asura are not united.

It seems that you’re misunderstanding me as much as you claim I’m misunderstanding you.

Actually, it kind of is. Zhaitan hasn’t been underground supporting Orr, so it won’t sink now that he’s dead.

Killyox.3950:

Largos don’t fit as a playable race imo. They are nomads and loners. They have master – single apprentice relationship (GW2 starwars wth?).

As said, they’re only loners and nomads to other races because they’re not in their homelands. They’re travelers. From what we know of their culture, which is albeit very little, they’re actually a tight-nit society that’s closely bound by their laws and honor.

Besides, we already have a race that are somewhat nomadic and loners – the norn. The asura also count as a bit of loners – both are far more of “loners” than the largos are (just because you only see at most 3 in a single area doesn’t mean they’re loners).

Sirius.4510:

While I doubt that the underwater system was designed because of the largos race, it very likely could be the other way around – they might have been an effort by ArenaNet to highlight that part of the game after the initial five races didn’t focus on it.

I concur with this. I believe that when Anet gets around to improving and expanding the underwater system, the largos will be introduced as playables to be the poster-child of said improvements and expanding. After all, ArenaNet had been wanting to make the underwater system highly important in the gameplay, so I can’t see them not wanting to add an underwater-focused society at some point.

Moreso when you remember that there’s an Elder Dragon thriving in the deepest parts of the ocean. If Anet ever intends to take on the DSD, there will be a lot of underwater gameplay going.

Sirius.4510:

I don’t believe that racial sympathy races inherently can’t become playable – they wouldn’t be able to have racial sympathy for themselves, obviously, but that’s not really a problem. Looking at the individual options there are, they all have big stumbling blocks going down that road though, so I wouldn’t consider them likely. It’s also not impossible that they were chosen as sympathy options because they weren’t designed to ever be playable, but it hasn’t been overtly stated by the devs that the two sets are mutually exclusive.

I think it was stated that hylek were intended to be a non-playable race; and though I’m less certain, grawl and quaggan too. So I do think they were chosen to be racial sympathies because they wouldn’t be playable races. And TBH, the only race that has a viable chance of becoming a playable race would be ogre, when you look at the big picture, and even then that’s unlikely.

Midnight Gypsy.9360:

This is a good thread to read up on the Largos. Some of has been gone over on this thread, but it give some interesting ideas. Such as Lyssa being a Largos or just resembling one and a Largos- Mursaats connection.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/39689-the-largos/page__st__60

I think you mean Dwayna, not Lyssa.

Dwayna has wings – and her statue (the one at the temple) and her Priestesses uses what was to be a female Risen Largos model – and she has blue skin, just like a largos. Furthermore, largos have a lot of similarities with Orrians in terms of naming, and Sayeh somehow knows Orrian writing.

You guys are all overlooking the true solution.

Step 1: Give more means of obtaining Ascended gear.
Step 2: Give more means of obtaining Laurels.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.

By giving more options, you remove the need to do a specific thing, giving more viability. Before dailies gave laurels and laurels could be traded for Ascended gear, the very argument held by the OP could be given to Fractals – and, in fact, still can. But by creating equal-difficulty/requirement means of obtaining desired items, it feels less grindy because folks aren’t being funneled into the same activities.

Besides all this, there are means of making more laurels and making the dailies less grindy in the works already. And they’re due for this month’s update, iirc, in fact. So if you wait a couple days, your complaints should be answered.

And if they’re not, then you should complain, not shortly before the fix is expected to come and was announced long ago already.

Electro.4173:

Valentine’s Day is a minor holiday, so I think expecting anything based around it is unrealistic. There wasn’t anything for Thanksgiving, after all. Heck, Valentine’s Day did get the toy bouquet, so thats still “something” and more than I would have expected.

I also think there’s no lore based on Valentine’s Day either, so there’s that as well.

This. To expect stuff for St. Valentine’s Day is rather silly – it’d be akin to expecting Guy kittenes masks in the gemstore for the week(end) of November 5th.

Oldgrimm.8521:

if someone could give us some lore in the GW holidays is greatly appreciated

since i did not play GW1 also

Halloween is the ides of Fall (more or less) and the day in which Mad King Thorn is able to return from the Underworld (specifically the Mad Realm). Since he can’t be the tyrannical menace he was when alive on this day, he’s a bit of a jokster and thus the day has been celebrated as “Mad King’s Day” by humans. Halloween also marks the time of hte year when the souls of the dead are strongest in Tyria.

Wintersday is the end of winter and the Mouvelian calendar’s new year – in other words, it’s the spring equinox. Traditionally, it was a battle between the human gods of Grenth and Dwayna – where Grenth wanted to extend winter, and Dwayna wanted to end it to bring forth spring. Since the battle seems for some reason to depend on the mood of the followers, Dwayna focused on bringing cheer and happiness thus presents to people were introduced – on the same line, Grenth wishes to bring a more grim mood and thus Grentches (little grin imp (traditional imp not GW2 imps) like figures – clearly based off of the Grinch) were made to help spoil the mood. It seems that since the silence of the six gods, snow in Kryta and Ascalon has become more or less non-existent during winter (that snow you saw during Wintersday? It’s fake snow created by asuran snow dispensers – in GW1, specifically in Kamadan (in Elona) it was said that winter’s snow was brought by the gods’ magic).

The other two major holidays in lore would be Canthan New Year and the Dragon Festival – neither are Tyrian tied. There’s also minor festivities like Meatober Fest (Charr), Festival of Lyss (Vabbian), Convocation (Luxon), and so forth.

Oldgrimm.8521:

if the dev will celebrate april fools as a month long celebration, would it be making fun of the aprils Holy week celebration to Christians?

Your hypothetical question doesn’t matter since April Fool’s Day is a one-day thing that’s just Anet having fun with the players. It’s not even an actual holiday event, unlike Halloween or Wintersday.

Olba.5376:

It’s a freaking Group Event. You are not meant to solo it.

You want to do those, get a couple of friends/guildies and do it.

This…

Except that they function vastly different than other ranged professions (and tbh, they can also go melee or mid-ranged and they can have similar builds made up). However, there wouldn’t be much difference between a thief and your wanna-be-monk. It’d just be a thematic change.

Where was it ever said the djinn are unseen or live in a different dimension? Because I’ve never seen such.

I, too, don’t really get why people hate Trahearne. Yes, I’ve heard all of your explanations, but I don’t see those explanations to be what the situation actually is. He doesn’t really go stealing the personal story, nor does he die a lot for me (hell, he survives more than most other NPCs in the personal story). The only bad thing Trahearne has (that other NPCs don’t, at the very least) is horrid voice acting.

And what does Togo being an illegitimate child have to do with his actions, and when did he decide to “chill at the emperor’s place” to get reinforcements? It’s actually you who goes to get reinforcements. The only time Togo isn’t dealing with the threat is during Nahpui Quarter – and that’s because he is already Weh no Su.

And I’d say that most people hate Gwen a lot, actually. And no, the chibi Gwen doll is not the best thing ever.

My most hated NPC? That’s hard to say. I can’t really say I hate any NPC – I don’t care for so many, but I don’t hate them. Closest I could say would probably be Zhed – he seriously needs anger management issues (yes, more than Gwen – she actually has a reason to be kitten off 95% of the time).

My most favorite? Probably a tie between Lord Faren, Maverick, and Dinky for humorous NPCs, and with Vallus Smokemane because tbh, of all personal story NPCs, he felt like the most thought out one (and Clement Forktail I guess, but less so) – oh, and GW2’s King Adelbern, cuz his laugh sounds like Father Gregori from Half-Life 2.

You know, I don’t get the notion that the kodan are “too like the norn” at all.

Norn are legend builders, appear as large humans who can take on were-forms of various animals, and are lovers of battle, ale, and storytelling. They treat their faith and the closest things to deities they have as guidelines for how to make a legend, but don’t worship and they have very loose laws and cooperation.

Kodan are balance-keepers, appear as large bipedal polar bears, and disdain from combat unless necessary. Their faith is in Koda, a single entity, and their religion is their law and must be adhered to, and they live in large communities that are protective of their children.

The only similarity the two races have is that they are both seen in the Shiverpeak Mountains primarily, and were pushed south by Jormag. Bear Form doesn’t even look much like a kodan, and is nude while kodans are clothed.

TBH, if you take out the Bear Form from the norn, the two races are nothing alike.

Caladbolg is (slowly?) removing the corruption of the land, the risen are being killed off in a war of attrition. But we won’t see any changes to existing zones – it’d ruin the experience of new players. Instead, we’ll likely get some areas in southern/eastern Orr and Scavanger’s Causeway that shows this… perhaps. Being closer to Orr, you have an explanation for what’d be causing issues there – Joko’s undead (yay, more undead in Orr!) or alternatively being close to the Unending Ocean, you got the DSD’s minions if it ever comes crashing on Tyria’s shores.

@WonderfulCT: I doubt Orr will fall – Zhaitan rose Orr when he woke up, but nothing really claims he was keeping it up. It’d be like saying that once Jormag dies the Shiverpeak Mountains will somehow mend itself and that inland sea will disappear.

The mursaat still appear the same when they divide their body – and only one mursaat has shown the ability to do this.

Furthermore, we’re told that the mursaat have been in the Mists until recently prior to GW1’s time. The largos, on the other hand, have been in the Unending Ocean for a much longer time. Along with this, their personalities are greatly differing. The mursaat fled the world when they had a viable means to combat the Elder Dragons – they saved their own skin after betraying the other surviving races (jotun, seer, forgotten, and dwarves), and were sacrificing thousands just to save their own skin again with the Flameseeker Prophecies. On the other hand, largos honor their debts and value challenging kills above all – they don’t run from death either (as shown by all the largos events).

I’m sorry, but the only shared aspect the largos and mursaat have is that they have a racial trait of turning invisible – which as I’ve said dozens of times, this is not unique unto mursaat and largos as all mesmers and thieves can do this too (as players, we’re given nerfed forms of this, however) – and that they’re humanoid in appearance.

Trying to link the mursaat and largos together is like trying to link the charr and centaurs together because they both hate humans and according to Olias they have similar bone structures.

Narcemus.1348:

When it comes to what Salacious was talking about, I was extremely disappointed to see the lack of dwarven ruins in the game, I mean yeah you find caves with dwarven ruins, and some of the outposts appear later on, but I wanted to see just one of those rusty metal bridges still existing in game

But we haven’t been to most places where said Deldrimor ruins should be (which would be just north of Snowden Drifts and east of Mount Maelstrom/Timberline Falls).

1. It may be a theory that the White Mantle are backing all bandit activities, but it’s not a theory that all known/seen bandit camps are united, nor is it a theory that the White Mantle are backing at least some bandit activities. Which is what I was saying from the get go.
2. He goes to Lion’s Arch alone, and if you actually play more than just that storyline for humans, Logan goes out and about quite often – including to Kessex Hills (he specifically goes to raid a bandit camp with just you and him during the Dead Sister storyline, for example). Why is he going out? He’s hunting down threats to the queen.
3. That’s highly speculative when we’re given no indication of such. Tyrians adapt to calamities a hell of a lot better than we do.
4. Though the fact remains that all Kryta’s doing to aid the Ascalon Liberation War (or w/e its called on the human side) is sending supplies and giving a pseudo police force for Ebonhawke alone – for the purpose of quelling Separatists. They’ve not sent any military support to Ascalon except in the past five years.
5. I’d say the White Mantle/Bandits/Corrupt Ministry coalition (whether or not you say it’s a single force) are the biggest threat of all racial enemies, given their ties to so many hostile groups – I mean, they’re allies with enemies of humans, asura, sylvari, and norn. And thanks to the events of Crucible of Eternity, the Inquest have been given a mighty blow. And BTW, the alliance between Inquest and bandits is fairly new – at least as far as Krytans know (same goes for the human/centaur alliance). And the Flame Legion has posed no threat to Kryta – they may hold extreme hatred for humans, but they’re not only a far distant threat but also having all of their attention on the charr, who were until the past year, enemies of Kryta (thus Krytans had no care for the other three legions’ woes except for the groups trying to bring peace).

Rather than “end of Zhaitan’s army” I think it’d just be more of “we won’t see Zhaitan’s army in the new stuff” (yea, semantics) – and this is just about proven with Southsun Cove. The Sea of Sorrows was the risen’s territory, but there’s not one to be found in Southsun Cove which is placed on the timeframe after Zhaitan’s fall.

Also, I’m pretty sure it was said all – if not almost all – Margonites were wiped out after Mallyx/Dominion of Anguish. Those which were left were either re-imprisoned or converted like The Lost/Apostate.

Alright, you can toss out the flag. It’s still said by dozens of NPCs that they’re highly organized and working together. I mean, that’s why the bandits are a huge threat and not just some minor nuisance like the hostile skritt, or the ettins.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I’m just saying we lack hard evidence. We only have hints. Many hints, I give you that

Ever took logic?

If A is always B and B is sometimes C therefore A is sometimes C and whatnot? That’s what I applied to these “hints” and situations. Even a dozen hints can become hard evidence, depending on the situation behind them.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Anyway, I’m totally fine with your statement, “that all bandits work for the WM” if you put a “it’s heavily implied” in front of it. Yes semantics I know, but hey you are the first one to jump in if someone words it so that a theory looks like a fact.

Except that it’s more than just heavily implied.

We know the bandits are united – this isn’t just heavily hinted, it’s the case. It’s just very obscure. And we know that White Mantle are backing the bandits. What we don’t know is how the White Mantle are backing the bandits – though we know that, to some degree, they’re giving orders.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

I was refering to their stupidity in that one quest, where you lure them into a trap. It’s the most obvious set up for a trap in Tyria’s history and they still easily fall for it.

For those who were setting the trap, definitely. But given how everyone was stealthed but Logan – thus for all they knew, Logan was alone, and as said Logan does go out alone at times, it’s not so obvious.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

-snip last two paragraphs-

If you take note, I mentioned the flooding. And it took them a single year to establish a new capital – seems to me that they had things under control with the flooding for the most part. And there’s still a full 150 years before that event in which Kryta was free of anything but sending supplies to Ascalon. Even after the flooding, all they did for Ascalon was send some supplies and provide a place for refugees. They did NOT send manpower to Ascalon except in recent years (the Fallen Angel group, which was established within Edge of Destiny).

Why would the centaurs care about the war in Ascalon? They don’t – what the outcast is talking about is the fact they’re becoming allies with the charr, and he has heard of the machines charr have. What he fears isn’t humans having one less front to fight – he fears humans getting reinforcements from a powerful force (the charr). It’s got nothing to do with Kryta sending the non-existent manpower across the continent.

As the Unknown Parents storyline shows, the White Mantle were more than just rumors to the Shining Blade, and there’s actually little to no reason for the humans of Kryta to keep an eye on the Inquest or Flame Legion (nor is there any indication that they’ve done such) – btw, the Inquest are also a recent group (I don’t think we have a date to it though, we’re just told that it’s “recent”).

TL;DR Kryta had 150 years to wipe out the White Mantle, with the Shining Blade knowing of their continued existence. They only have plights beginning with the flood caused by Zhaitan, and that was minor. Their bigger issues other than White Mantle manipulation (or even that) began within a couple recent generation(s). If 150 years isn’t enough time to wipe out a known enemy, then obviously that enemy – who is outright stated to have grown to subterfuge and the like – is not a “joke.”

Yes, I know there was such a thread. I posted there and contemplated how the races might be linked.

However, evidence since that thread (it’s rather old tbh) debunks almost every notion presented, which were rather loose connections.

I mean, seriously? Because they both have wings, can turn mostly invisible (though they do so in different means an all races can do this if they know the magic to do so and are a mesmer or thief), and wear masks, they are likely related?

Besides, mursaat don’t turn invisible – they phase out of the world. You even get to experience it firsthand during the Arah explorable mursaat path.

darkace.8925:

Add to Destiny’s Edge!? I was kind of hoping they’d subtract from Destiny’s Edge. I’m thinking the removal of about five members would be just about perfect.

So since there’s seven members (Mr. Sparkles and Garm count as members, imo, and Garm was considered a member by Lion’s Arch’s arena folks), which two remain?

The (hoes-before-)broskies (Logan and Rytlock)?
The grief sisters (Eir and Zojja)?
The strongest duo (Rytlock and Garm)?
The funniest ones (Logan and Mr. Sparkles – yes, a golem has more humor than a charr, and yes, Logan makes good jokes periodically… (“isn’t Kudu a girl’s name?”) have you seen him troll the White Mantle?)?

Personally, I vote the last. I can deal with Logan’s sappiness if he makes more jokes. His are better than Rytlock’s.

schizandra.4587:

True. But both Largos and Mursaat have actually been called “Unseen.” There’s the similar skintones, yes… and neither race has ever been seen without a mask. Maybe the feather appendages could have evolved into fins? Who knows.

That’s a silly stretch.

• You have one largos called “unseen hunter” – and that’s just a descriptive name over the fact that it’s hunting down and isn’t seen. That’s little different than proclaiming that The Unseen which uses the word unseen must be a mursaat or somehow related to them.
• Seen without a mask? Other than mursaat concept art, sure I suppose, but that’s like saying the largos are tied to seers because male largos’ eyes glow blue. Or that Margonite Warlocks are related to mursaat because of the shared shape (note: all Margonites except possibly Mallyx were once humans).
• Fourteen (possibly fifteen) fern-like/feathery appendages coming out of a backpiece (nothing really shows them being part of mursaat physiology) which is at the center of the back is VASTLY different than two manta ray-like wings that come out of the base of the neck.

In other news:

The mursaat, also called the Unseen Ones, were a race of powerful spellcasters. They have not been seen for centuries, and I think they are now extinct.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Yissa (though admittedly, elsewhere she also states that they “keep reappearing after they’ve been reported gone.”)

That symbol is extremely unique and used solely by the Krytan bandits – if it was a universal banditry symbol, there’d probably be some where you can find pirates, looters, and so forth whom are not only multi-racial but multi-national. The unlikelihood of it being a unique symbol is doubled when you compare it to the old White Mantle emblem, and given the fact that the emblem is almost always (read: one exception – Fort Vandal flags) white (side note: said flags are the sole case of the emblem not being painted on wood or rocks in a rather obvious-yet-obscure place near the camps).

“Now they are just some guys hiding in the jungle having to rely on others to do their dirty work. And when they finally come out to do something themself they fail miserably.”

First point depends on if figures like Caudecus or Two-Blade Pete are part of the White Mantle or are just their cronies. It’s heavily implied to be the former, to which you can then say that the White Mantle themselves are the leaders and do indeed go out in the field, but they’re not the majority of the bandits.

Second point is because the only time you see the White Mantle proclaiming they’re the White Mantle is when they’re targeting you, the player character, which of course wtfpwns every living thing that comes after you – be they skale or drake broodmothers or the Elder Dragons’ fiercest and strongest champions. That’s not a fair assessment.

Side note: Kryta has actually put little effort in fighting Elder Dragons (the destroyers in Kessex and the Risen in all of Kryta are a relatively new situation – and by relatively new, I mean weeks old as of the PC’s arrival in the areas at most), and the centaur war is relatively recent (within a generation). That’s roughly 200-230 years in which the White Mantle survived without Kryta having military focused elsewhere, with the exception of when Zhaitan rose which would have simply occupied them for a good 10-20 years give or take (Divinity’s Reach was established a year after Zhaitan’s rise).

maddoctor.2738:

The Mursaat probably used their magic to “phase out” of this world. I bet they are on the area called the Isle of Janthir, their homeland, preparing a “come back” to the world. Otherwise, what is that “Isle of Janthir” doing up there?

Nothing says the Isles of Janthir is the mursaat’s homeland. All we’re told about Janthir’s inhabitants is that they have the Gift of True Sight.

schizandra.4587:

We were just talking about thr possible Largos-Mursaat connection in another thread. Over on GW2 Guru they were talking about that too. Both races have the ability to make themselves “unseen.” Both sport similar armor styles. Maaaaybe?

Charr can make themselves “unseen” too – so can humans and asura. It’s thief and mesmer magic (and note: NPCs can go invisible indefinitely, and not just outlined invisible but pure invisible).

There’s next to nothing similar between the mursaat and largos – the only thing you really have is the skin texture of male largos (go from pale yellow to light blue and you got the same kind of skin).

TBH, the largos have more in common with Orrians.

You clearly missed part of what I said.

The bandits in Harathi Hinterlands have the same emblem as those in Queensdale and Brisban Wildlands. Both the Harathi Hinterlands and the Kessex Hills bandits hold the same alliances. As does the Kessex Hills and Queensdale bandits. Every Harathi Hinterlands camp has this emblem, as does both Queensdale camps, and Fort Vandal – this shows a unity among these right off the bat.

For reference, the emblem I’m referring to is this one:

[img]http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/1/12/Bandit_emblem.jpg[/img]

(Hmm, seems image encoding’s not working for me.)

As for the Brisban Wildland bandits – aside from above emblem being on flags around Fort Vandal, every bandit camp has a “kill the leader” event where half of said events deal with the bandits negotiating with Inquest, and almost every camp – if not every – has Inquest-related devices in the camp (if not always, then during said kill the leader events). Every. Single. Camp. And the entire premise behind the bandits in Brisban Wildlands is that both their appearance is considered unusual, the Seraph are looking for the White Mantle, and the bandits are uniting with the Inquest and Nightmare Court.

In fact, no where is it ever even implied that the bandits are not united.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Why would they all unite, if they are clearly anarchists? Being organized and controlled by someone else is pretty much the opposite of what they want.

Shows how manipulative the White Mantle have grown to be. Or actually, how they’ve always been. I mean, they killed thousands in two years and managed to convince an entire nation that those thousands were just training under possibly non-existent “Grand Masters.”

Grezko.7950:

I just want another non-tank mdps focused class – THAT’s it.

THANK YOU!

Key word: Another

That’s been my entire point the whole freaking time. You’re just wanting another version of something that exists already!

WonderfulCT.6278:

Plus I do remember reading that A-Net had planned not to bring them back, but due to popular demand they might put them back in or do things related to them (this was before the release of GW2 though)

They stated that they were considering it; and there was another comment back in 2007 that there were “cool plans” in the work for them – which for all we know, was about War in Kryta.

Grezko.7950:

And come on, are you really stating that some professions don’t fit some archtypes we know?

No, I’m not.

I’m saying they’re not stepping on each others’ toes by going into the same niche. There’s no profession that plays like a theif other than thief, and no profession that plays like elementalist but the elementalist.

Your “neo-monk” would be stepping on the toes of both thief and guardian. Same theme as the guardian, same playstyle as thief (basically, from what you’re telling me, it’s a faith-based thief that doesn’t have a dark (e.g., stealthing/stealing/venoms) theme).

Grezko.7950:

GW2 has its class balance issues

Never said otherwise. However, unlike other MMOs, GW2 at least tries to keep professions balanced and, most importantly, not similar to each other.

The gargoyles are only mentioned by a single charr, so its’ more of an environmental/situational mention.

Though technically, mergoyles are also gargoyles and thus count as disappearing mysteriously either way.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

athuria.2751:

(if you have a Whispers character, see how many hidden agents you can root out).

This is seriously a hobby of mine, you know.

Haha, same here. You’d be very surprised just how many Order of Whispers agents can be found in Hoelbrak – and with interesting new lore too – compared to the other racial hometowns.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Then there’s the one in Brisban, who MASSIVELY helps a Renown Heart if you can find her.

Hmm, doesn’t ring a bell to me. Then again, I don’t think I’ve been to the Maguuma with any Whispers characters…

Lokheit.7943:

Basically what Konig said (though I think he meant sixth and not seventh with the telescope reference).

Nope, I worded it correctly. I was basically saying that it’s likely about the sixth Elder Dragon (Mordremoth), rather than a completely unknown seventh Elder Dragon.

Lokheit.7943:

and if I’m not mistaken, the first dragon conflict happened before their arrival as the Rubicon was already written

First Elder Dragon rising happened who-knows-when. However, when the Six Gods arrived on Tyria in regards to their last awakening (a lot of people mistakenly believe that their previous awakening was their first – this is not so!) is unknown. We’re told it was after the Tome of Rubicon’s writing, however the presence of the forgotten and the lack of stating the forgotten were not brought by the Six shows that the gods could have arrived during the last ED rise.

You really have to go talking to NPCs or listening to the idle dialogues. Just completing stuff or even reading event dialogue won’t give you much of anything. Hearts contain next to no lore on average (though there are a couple which do give lore, such as the tengu in Kessex Hills) and even then it’s only before completing the heart, usually, and the events which contain lore other than “these things are happening” is fairly uncommon (but existent) – kind of the same with explorable mode dungeons – it exists, but its not the focus of the activity.

And despite what FlamingFoxx said, talk to generic NPCs as well – every now and then there’s a generically named NPC that actually has a dialogue box. For example, one of the patrolling Seraph Guard NPCs in Fort Salma of Kessex Hills gives a lot of lore on the centaurs – more than seen just about in any other one spot, actually.

GW2’s lore is, as above said, hidden.

This said, yes, lately I’ve been feeling disconnected with the game’s story. Both in how it feels like there’s no progress in the open world (hopefully as the living story gets put into full gear after Flame and Frost, this won’t be such an issue! crosses fingers), and in the direction lore is going – and how often I find inconsistencies (intentional or not). Then also I feel disconnected cuz I feel as though I’ve done just about everything (even though I know this isn’t the case, its just that there’s so little left and what’s been added – only Southsun Cove having stayed other than the preview for Flame and Frost – is rather lackluster content wise).

Just like the latter years of GW1, only the discussions on the game’s lore is keeping me going in interest.

@Narcemus: I wouldn’t say the whole of the Catacombs is devoted to Grenth and death. Firstly, we only go to a portion of the Catacombs in GW1 – and other portions in GW2, one area includes a statue of Kormir (yeah, that confuses me though I guess they had 15 years to build it), and even in the GW1 catacombs, there’s a mural of… I think its Melandru down there.

@Leohart: Yes, you’d note that folks have, especially if you read the post above yours. ;P

Only 10% of what you post being wrong is probably better than most. :P

Hmm, you make a good point. A bit of lore that can back you up would be that of The Rift:

“In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things. "

In the Rift, time doesn’t move. Of course, it also connects to all times. So it’s plausible that other places of the Mists function similarly – or just different. Since the Mists connect to all times via the Rift, you can enter, spend ten years’ worth within the Mists, then come out ten seconds later.

Hence my mention of theoretically, the Mists can give access to time travel.

facedesk

Another Six Gods to Elder Dragons thread? Ugh. I don’t think I can even bother reading through another such thread.

Edit: Okay, just gonna struggle through this from beginning to end.

1. We have no solid indication of when the last Elder Dragon awakening was, actually. The 11,000 years ago thing is pure speculation on players’ part – formed from a misinterpretation of a single line – the line that the G-Lupe disappeared from Tyria in approximately 10,000 BE (and how the ED caused the G-Lupe’s extinction during the last rise). Nothing actually says the G-Lupe went extinct in approx. 10,000 BE.
2. Wyld Hunt – not Wild Hunt. There’s no correlation between the Wyld Hunt and wild-ness.
3. It’s already outright stated that there’s no (direct) ties between the Six Gods and Elder Dragons.
4. Grenth is the god of death, he is the successor of Dhuum (who was not ice). Before Grenth usurped Dhuum, he was not a god. He was merely the child of one. Just the same as to how Menzies is not a god. There are only six gods, not seven. You yourself even show this by stating that he was only tied to death after his ascension to godhood (meaning you yourself state he wasn’t a god prior to besting Dhuum). The fact Dhuum survived does not mean there are seven gods – Dhuum is fallen, thus no longer a god.
5. Lyssa holds no ties whatsoever to crystals.
6. Kormir holds no relation to water, thus putting a bigger wrench in the gods to Elder Dragon theory.
7. Zhaitan is NOT DEATH – he is *un*death. Another wrench in the God-to-ED theory that’s already been debunked by in-game dialogue.
8. The Mystic Telescope related to all Elder Dragons and is as likely to be about Mordremoth awakening as a seventh Elder Dragon awakening.
9. You’re making a huge assumption that the quaggan will become a playable race. You do realize that there’s a total of four races driven out by the DSD – quaggan, krait, karka, and largos. There may be more in the future.
10. The krait aren’t DSD’s minions… they’re just a serpentine race that lived close to where the DSD woke up. In other words, they’re as much victims of the DSD’s actions as the quaggan and karka are.
11. Sylvari aren’t minions of Mordremoth – the best case scenario for that too-popular thought is the Nightmare being caused by Modremoth. Nothing, and I do mean NOTHING solidly indicates the sylvari as a whole or the Pale Tree is related to Mordremoth. Especially given Malyck.

Also, I want to point out that I concur there is a seventh Elder Dragon, and that it likely deals with the sky or stars. However, you’re going about it completely the wrong way and you’re producing stuff that doesn’t matter at all for the notion, and has already either been debunked or proven severely unlikely which only makes the plausibility of a seventh ED to be made out to be equally unlikely.

You don’t create anything within the Mystic Forge. You’re just bartering with Zommorros.

ahem

As much as we know, it’s just a name tied to those two fire elementalist skills, one of which depicted a draconic like figure. This is all there is, other than the appearance of the legendary in GW2.

I’d say it’s more than “just a funny reference” – even if it began as such (heck, wasn’t there another figure that started as “just a funny reference” which grew to be a prominent figure in subsequent content updates? There’s quite a few, actually. Like Kilroy!).

Some of the legendaries do seem to hold a currently-hidden lore behind them, and Rodgort could be one such situation, meaning that all Rodgort is, would be a very well known torch which has possibly still unknown (to us) history.

(Also, Tobias, you should read the OP more often, ja?)