Guild Wars 2

I think it’s just teasing, cuz some players believe they’ll still return. :P

Shadowstepping is magic. According to GW1, human assassins follow Lyssa for this – just as mesmers follow her. So since thieves come from said assassins, it’s likely they have shared magic – presumed (the only profession who’s school of magic is confirmed is Elementalist, who use Destruction) to be the school of Denial. Mesmers in GW2 can also teleport and stealth, but they focus less on that stuff.

There are mammals which lay eggs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotreme

If at any point, the villain is killed or captured, or there’s some kind of conclusion to it (which, imo, there must be – as a neverending story is a story that gets boring over time) – the villain would have to be in instances. Otherwise you’d have him alive in some areas and dead in others – and that’s one of the explicitly stated paradoxes Anet wants to avoid (per the news post I linked above).

TheFiendishFiend.4057:

Ignoring the manner (mechanics) of Shiro’s demise(s), he did manage to get himself killed 3 times. First by Vizu/Archemorus/Victor (losers,) second by Mhenlo and Co. ( mostly losers,) and thirdly by Koss and Dunk and Co. (winners.) If, in fact, Shiro is supposed to be a great fighter, according to lore, this fact must be recalled in light of the fact he was an idiot that managed to die three times despite possessing superior powers than the motley band of heroes who eventually killed him.
In my mind, AI mechanics represent active lore, and should not be discredited.

Since when did losing in a battle that’s 1 versus many consitute as “being an idiot” (note: when Shiro first died, it wasn’t just Vizu/Viktor/Archemorus, but those three plus a group of Imperial, Kurzick, and Luxon soldiers – those three were just the last standing when Shiro died – on a similar manner, Shiro was killed by 9+ individuals (depending on how lore treats the presence of the henchmen which are always more than the party limit) when he returned after becoming human again, and btw among them were eventual-god-slayers; and the third time though he was allied with Khilbron, he was again facing, again 9+ individuals who, again, would be god-slaying heroes – and they were blessed by the gods).

Shiro was at a (sometimes large) numerical disadvantage each time, and he still managed to cause problems.

I don’t see why the living story wouldn’t eventually culminate in instances – I mean, if they’re going to have dungeons or go with their paralleling of the personal story in a more direct manner (like the latest article seems to imply, to me at least), they’d have to.

Technically, the living story does occur after Zhaitan’s defeat. In phase 2 of Flame and Frost, we got Consortium talking about setting up refugee housing in Southsun Cove. Southsun Cove wasn’t known to the populous nor was it accessible until the karka attack – and we’ve been told by Matthew Medina that the karka attack occurs after Zhaitan’s defeat.

I disagree Riptide. A future version of yourself would be recognizable to anyone because it would look and sound just like your character. No need to do that storyline – doing it is just an extra bonus to understanding the story.

Depends on how you define “very argumentative” – because I am arguing. :P Though the “less rude” term to use would be debating – but hey, same thing.

Also, you should have paid more attention to the storyline – like the charr level 20-30 storyline, Kellach was corrupted indirectly – via artifacts. As I’ve said here (I believe) and many other places, draconic magic can corrupt just about anything. It’s what and how the dragon chooses to corrupt. Zhaitan himself never corrupts living beings, only corpses. Necromancer Rissa – along with the Inquest – utilize Zhaitan’s corrupting energies to corrupt other things, however. In a similar light, the Inquest utilizes the other dragons’ energies to corrupt living beings into destroyers, and forces dragon energies into other dragons’ minions (Kudu’s Monster is a risen giant “embued” with energy from Kralkatorrik, Jormag, and Primordus).

DSD=deep sea dragon; the dragon which woke up in the Unending Ocean. We have little information on it, but the only bit we have says it twists the water – but no indications of it corrupting living beings.

Also, no Primordus has shown no ability to corrupt living beings. You’re probably thinking of the “one of two possibilities” the mentor mentions during the skritt storyline – that it is either a new kind of minion, or that it’s a creature that was pregnant when corrupted. We know it’s not the latter, because the destroyer “eggs” that it lays spawn not only destroyer crablings, but full grown destroyer crabs and even destroyer trolls if I recall correctly. Furthermore, nothing says the Great Destroyer was a living being formerly – it, like everything else we see corrupted by Primordus thus far, could easily be what all of Primordus’ minions are said to be: lava/fire and stone twisted into living beings.

Really, relating rl scandals into a video game? Well, whatever. You know that it’s cattle because you escort the cattle-to-be-slaughtered personally.

1) Prophecies.

2) Northern Maguuma Jungle and Shiverpeak Mountains. The land was taken nearly 700 years prior to the game, however, when Elonians (re)colonized Kryta and spread further north.

I think its both. The Consortium doesn’t give to the grawl, and if the grawl see the Consortium handle others’ goods, they stay away from those as well.

I actually like to play with the idea that dancing in front of Abaddon made the other five gods facepalm and go “blessing revoked!”

I mean, Abaddon will dance off with you, and Dhuum dances when he wipes the party. Its pretty obvious the evil gods like to dance.

Yeah, ranchers. Silly typo.

So a couple days ago, this which I noticed today, was posted. A line in there got me thinking about something.

“Aside from the Living Story main characters, we’ll also be surprising you with interesting villains, one of whom will become your personal nemesis. Again, no spoilers allowed, so I can’t tell you more than that, but you’ll recognize this sassy character when you see…um, him/her/it. <grin>”

A personal nemesis villain for GW2? This has a lot of potential, and my first thought – albeit jokingly – was that it’d be…. wait, spoilers to the Infinity Ball storyline!

Others’ thoughts?

A smart foe is often more threatening than a powerful foe. Because you can’t just go in and fight with pure brute strength against a smart foe – else you’ll get tricked and trapped.

(then again, I’m a massive fan of psychological warfare)

You seem to be under misconceptions:

The attack was sudden and brutal – they’re not “running for the hills like scared rabbits” but rather the injured (of which there’s a lot of because it was basically a blitzkrieg attack) are heading out of the battlefield. Furthermore, those being attacked are rangers and individualistic norn – they’re not fighters, on the whole.

The norn didn’t stop charr invasions solo – the norn have been stopping warbands (read: 5-20 individuals per warband). There’s a big difference. It’s even outright stated that if the charr were serious about taking the Shiverpeaks, they would have roflstomped the norn.

The norn knew Jormag was coming since it woke up in the far north – north of where the norn were living. They had time to prepare for him, and they went to meet him at first. Unlike now where the enemy came to them and the norn were unprepared.

As far as we see, and we’re seeing a lot now with those portals and invasions, it is a dredge/Flame Legion attack. The reason why its so effective is because it’s so sudden, and they’re attacking some of the weakest spots.

Zaxares.5419:

To the people saying that the Consortium don’t want Grawl refugees in Southsun, that wasn’t quite the impression I got. Talking to the Refugee Grawl Chieftain in LA reveals that the Consortium have been giving food and other goods to the Grawl as well, but the Grawl have refused any aid given to them by the Consortium. As the chieftain put it, “Their smiles do not touch their eyes. We do not eat food that they have touched.”

You should read the full line the grawl chieftain says: “Consortium gives, but not to us. Their smiles do not reach their eyes. We eat none of what they have touched.”

So no, they’re not helping the grawl, and the grawl see that the Consortium aren’t being honest so they don’t trust them.

Evolution.1758:

Then we have Zhaitan taking over all the Orrian Temples, if the Gods were outright gone, why would he have any interest in them and why would they enable him to influence the land around the various statues?

The statues hold leftovers of divine magic and, specifically in Orr, the statues are connected to the temples magically – allowing them to become superb defensive mechanisms as well as a food source.

Evolution.1758:

It’s my belief that the Gods’ silence is not voluntary. It’s the presence of the Dragons that’s limiting their power. It’s also interesting that their are theories of a sixth elder dragon lurking about, which would give us one Dragon for each God.

Firstly: NO on any Elder Dragons for each God notion. It doesn’t work. At all. Why? Because Dhuum held no ties to ice and Grenth did even before ascending to godhood – and similarly, Kormir holds no ties to water while after her ascension Lyssa does, but if Lyssa=DSD then Kralkatorrik is left without a god. The thing is that the gods’ elements, despite some overlapping (specifically Balthazar/Primordus and Melandru/Mordremoth), they seem to be chosen by the gods’ personality (though this is speculation) but on a whole they don’t line up no matter what (this is not speculation – it just doesn’t work).

As to the Elder Dragons causing the Six Gods’ silence – it’s not fully voluntary. The silence began at the end of Nightfall – 3 years before Primordus attempted to wake up, and 55 years before it actually did. However, the Seventh Reaper does state that he’s weak – which I take as being caused by one of two things:

The Elder Dragons are reducing the Six Gods’ influence – though the silence began before their awakening, their awakening has prevented a return.

Or there’s something going on at wherever the Six Gods now are, which has been weakening/preoccupying them and their forces. I suspect Dhuum and Menzies may be tied if this is so.

WonderfulCT.6278:

They left after abbadon was imprisoned and after he was defeated. Abaddon was the only one who could make the gods do anything apparently so until he comes back they be gone.

Physically, they left after Abaddon’s imprisonment – however, Dwayna at the very least did pay the world a visit a few times sense (see Karei who met Dwayna in approx. 300-400 AE). After the Exodus, they simply communicated, blessed the world, and had their avatars physically present – the Seventh Reaper met in the personal story would be one such avatar.

The “silence of the gods” refers to the second situation – when they stopped communication. That is when they “left for good” so to speak.

mercury ranique.2170:

First question to answer in my opinion is What is actually a God.

[…]

First of all cause only humans see them as gods.

To be one of the Six Gods, it is required to contain an indestructible energy source within the body – that energy source is what seems to make them a god. Supplanting a god means to kill and take that energy source. In this, there can only ever be six gods.

Also, you forget there are centaurs, forgotten, and possibly naga that view the Six Gods as gods. There are centaurs in Balthazar’s Eternal army, and the forgotten are devout followers of the Six. There’s a naga boss in the Jade Sea who’s given the title Blessed of Dwayna

mercury ranique.2170:

When we did the final two missions in Nightfall they also gave us blessings. Strangely only to kill of Shiro and the Lich and not Abadon himself.

Err….

Lyssa’s Muse: “The divinity is within you. And so, we give you our blessing. That should suffice for the task ahead.”

While there was no mechanical blessing, there was such a thing. I presume that it was this blessing mentioned that prevented Abaddon from just giving you an Evil Eye of Death.

xLiveLucidx.5071:

The humans are definitely to be respected for their accomplishments in the past, but now their alliances are really keeping them afloat. If there wasn’t a treaty between the Charr and the Humans, they could easily be wiped out. If the absence of their gods continues, Human influence in Tyria will diminish. That also raises other good questions about how the six Human gods could intervene, and what kind of impact they could make in the war.

I seriously think you underestimate humanity. Why are you presuming that Ebonhawke, a city fortress that withstood over 200 years of constant bombardment and even an Elder Dragon’s assault, would fall if not for peace talks that has been occuring for less than a year? And even if Ebonhawke fell, Kryta remains – and keep in mind that the Krytans are, without other races’ aid, now pushing the centaurs back (the whole of Harathi Hinterlands’ events).

And even IF Kryta somehow managed to fall – which is extremely unlikely, btw, there’s still Cantha, Elona, and wherever humans came from when initially migrating to Cantha (supposedly a land further south according to Jeff Grubb, and a land across the ocean according to Luxon legends) – the place they were before arriving on the world.

As to the Six Gods’ intervention… well, the last time they were part of a war, the Crystal Sea and its shoreline turned into the Crystal Desert and the Desolation. Though this was a war between the gods themselves. But before that, according to charr stories, the Six Gods did aid humanity in wiping the floor with the charr in taking Ascalon.

xLiveLucidx.5071:

Arguably the most powerful of these antagonists are the Inquest. They have political and technological power as well as the ambition to disregard anything that will slow their progress towards world domination.

Bandits have more political ties than the Inquest. They got allies in the human Ministry, Inquest, Nightmare Court, and centaurs – possibly the Separatists too. Inquest just have ties in the Arcane Council, Nightmare Court, and bandits. Plus, unlike the bandits, the Inquest were dealt a heavy blow during the events of Crucible of Eternity.

xLiveLucidx.5071:

the Human race (a soon to be extinct race anyways,)

I greatly disagree. You seem to be sold on the notion of what ArenaNet overexagurated about humanity in GW2 – that they’re on the brink of extinction. This is not true at all.

The centaur war has only been losing within the past generation, and same with the corruption of the Ministry which began with Jennah’s father’s death. Furthermore, Cantha is by all indication, under full human rule. They’re far from extinction – they’re just on the lesser end of the stick in continental Tyria, but they’re still fairing much better than 90% of the races there (only being worse off than charr, sylvari, and asura really, with somewhat equal pairing with the norn).

xLiveLucidx.5071:

Then using portal technology they could transport Charr armies and their war machines to Divinity’s Reach and Ebonhawke to erase Human leaders and military from existence.

Except for the fact that asura gates need to be manned on both ends of the gate to create a connection, the humans are also highly defensive about their gates (before the charr peace treaty began, DR’s gate was guarded by a lot of guards – and the Ebonhawke one still is). And furthermore, even if the Inquest were wanting to do this, the other asura wouldn’t stand for it given how they’re wanting more to have other races work for them (and for that matter, this goes for the Inquest too – why eliminate a perfectly good race that can be used for experiments and heavy labor?), plus most of the charr’s heavy machinery is used by the Iron Legion – an ally to humanity – while the Flame Legions’ “siege” weaponry (aka Flame Effigies and Searing Cauldrons) can’t easily fit through the gates due to size.

So such a scenario is highly unlikely to occur, given current states.

xLiveLucidx.5071:

Could something like this ever happen? Which races and factions do you think would join which side? If this did happen, what would the outcome be? What about the Elder Dragons? Would it be wise to wait for the dragon wars to end or is it the perfect opportunity for the Inquest- Flame Legion alliance to attack a crippled and distracted Tyria? Anything I missed or got wrong?

If there was ever a large multi-racial war, the alliances would likely be the Pact versus Bandits(/White Mantle)/Centaurs/Inquest/Nightmare Court/Dredge/Separatists – due to the bandits’ large connections, I cannot see the Inquest just dropping them, and as such you won’t get Flame Legion or Renegades (on the flip side, dredge and Flame Legion are already in an alliance, and the Inquest have worked with dredge before – so long as the Flame Legion doesn’t work with Separatists and bandits/White Mantle, then they may join in as well as the Renegades, though there’d likely to be a lot of internal strife in this alliance); similarly, due to the Sinister Triad’s existence, the Nightmare Court’s influence would likely keep the Sons of Svanir out as the NC are still anti-Elder Dragons (it’s rather odd they work with Inquest, tbh).

Both sides of this war would be anti-Elder Dragon – so you basically create a three-way war going between Pact vs. Sinister Triad and co. vs. Elder Dragons and worshipers (SoS, etc.). And the Elder Dragons themselves are not united either. So unless you’re taking out Elder Dragons before this hypothetical Tyrian War (I can’t call it a world war since it all occurs on one continent), it’s more like a 7-way war.

mercury ranique.2170:

Ascalonian Ghosts, grawl and ogres are mindless creatures that are more animal then sentient beings.

…Grawl and ogres aren’t mindless, and you mean sapient – animals are sentient, and the grawl and ogres are definitely sapient anyways.

TBH, there is no mindless race out there – except the grunts of Elder Dragon armies and the grunt of the Ascalonian ghosts (there are ghosts which seem intelligent in their own right who lead these ghostly armies now – both formerly prominent and not (kind of funny that the Foefire has basically made the Ascalonians into spectral dragon minion mentality…)).

Thus far, we’re told and see it as a Flame Legion/Dredge alliance.

“Quaggan homes utilize the resources of the sea and consist of round pods made of coral and corded seaweed. The pods are tethered to the ocean floor but can be easily towed to safer locations if needed. For light, quaggans farm luminous pearls and phosphorescent algae. "

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Mostly_Harmless_Quaggan

You’re closer, but not completely accurate, Astral. And your girlfriend has weird thoughts to think a mammal (I think? That’s the real question about quaggans – wtf are they? They’re compared to orcas and dolphins so I presume they’re egg-laying mammals like platypuses) would have a function akin to an arachnid. o.O

@Erukk: Your quotes are from after Kuunavang’s corrupted by Shiro Tagachi. She’s not in her right mind, so I’d hardly call her a credible or reliable source combared to the disembodied and thus-far-not-disproven outpost descriptions.

“It was his touch that corrupted my body and fought for control of my spirit.”

Regarding the Harvest Ceremony – I wasn’t stating that. I was, instead, stating that it’s still rather unclear since so little is mentioned (and for the record “bountiful year” can refer to more than harvests – be it fishing, hunting, or even birth fertility (and as goddess of life, the last seems most likely, otherwise Melandru would make more sense); similarly, “land” can be used to refer to not just the soil and ground, but a nation). It’s a semi-ceeded point on my end, since you didn’t understand that. However, it still remains that nothing at all links Kuunavang to the Harvest Ceremony. Yeah, she was trapped within the so-called Harvest Temple – originally called Kuan Jun Temple – but that doesn’t link her to a ceremony dealing with the gods and not dragons.

On celestials: And? Nothing you quoted says they’re the spirits of the stars. As I said, celestials are spirits of formerly humans (possibly other races too) that have ascended into the starts because they embody certain traits.

And calling those tales to be legends (and thus, you’re implying that they never occured), is rather foolhardy and borderline – no, it is ignoring lore to prove your theory more truthful.

Since you clearly didn’t go reading through properly, allow me to quote and link a different article which outright proves what I was saying:

“Each animal is associated with a set of virtues. The Pig is traditionally honest, tolerant, and supportive in Canthan folktales. Once when humans first walked the world, a man named Chong embodied these virtues, and when the end of his years came, the gods wished to elevate him as a celestial animal. Because he shared those virtues with a humble pig, he chose that as his celestial form. So this year at Shing Jea Monastery, his celestial form descends from the heavens for a great feast. You should not miss it…it will be twelve years before he comes again.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lorespinner_Ri_So

There are more, I believe, which further this.

Also about Kuunavang’s power: “Kuunavang had provided us with her celestial powers” http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shiro%27s_Return

Erukk.1408:

Any singular place that holds the constant attention of any human gods should be suspect of a site of an Elder Dragon. It doesn’t help that the Harvest Temple is in a very weird spot, floating over the water in the middle of the Jade Sea. It has Dwayna’s attention once a year, where she gives gifts of magic, and said magic can be used to turn entire seas to jade and forests to stone.

You do realize that the Six Gods building Arah on top of Zhaitan was pure coincidence, right? They neither knew Zhaitan was there nor was Zhaitan was drew them there. They were drawn to where Arah was by the Artesian Waters, which is magical btw and not powered by Zhaitan. It’s a natural magical source in Orr. And the personal story step titled Cathedral of Silence says – so long as you’re not charr (or at least if you’re human or sylvari) and talk to Trahearne after finishing the mission – that the place drew the Six Gods’ attention from the Mists.

Here’s something: The Throne of Ascension and Hall of Ascension holds the Six Gods attention. OH NOES ELDER DRAGON! The Depths of Madness holds the Six Gods’ attention. OH NOES ELDER DRAGON!

Your reasoning is rather silly, truth be told. There’s a lot of places the Six Gods held attention on. And I honestly don’t think that the Harvest Ceremony’s blessings had to be received at the temple. The Jade Wind itself and the magic bestowed upon the emperor has nothing to do with the location but with the ceremony. And it’s not like a floating location is of anything significant. I mean, Vabbi is stuffed with floating gardens and even a large temple to Lyssa – you going to say there’s an Elder Dragon sleeping under the Mirror of Lyss too?

Yumiko Ishida.3769:

Drakes are lesser dragons as was said in GW 1. Now they are more like elemental giant reptiles that spit breath of various elements. In GW 1, they looked more dragon-like.

Why the sudden change to a gator/croc look?

You never went to the Crystal Desert or played Nightfall, did you?

Drakes in GW1 only looked outright draconic in Kryta – Fire Drakes, Obsidian Furnace Drakes, Sand Drakes, and Irontooth Drakes look less so, with the last looking almost just like GW2 drakes.

There was a full bridge of floating rocks that was surrounded by floating rocks in Riven Earth.

There were only a handful (that I remember) around some Wind Riders in Magus Stones.

Furthermore, given the three asuran settlement names we know of (Rata Sum, Quora Sum, and Rata Pten), it is possible that “Sum” is asuran for city (Quora Sum is one of the six majestic underground asuran cities that’s compared to GW2-day Rata Sum) and “Rata” refers to above-ground in some means (both Rata Sum and Rata Pten are above-ground settlements).

Rata Sum is also latin for “I (have) verified/ratified.” Furthermore, the word rive(/rived/riven) means to split, tear apart, etc. and Riven Earth was divided by a river – and perhaps more importantly, a part of it was split open by destroyers and similarly there were floating rocks much like seen in Caledon Forest. Riven Earth was literally an area where the earth was rived.

1) I don’t think they typically have a “look” to them, but rather a theme. Destruction is the school of magic that Elementalists use (and this is the only case of a profession’s school of magic being confirmed); Necromancers are believed to use Aggression, Monks/Guardians are believed to use Preservation, Mesmers/Thieves to use Denial. What magic the other professions – if any – use is less generally agreed upon though my view is that Ritualists summon spirits to bypass this, though I suspect that they utilize aggression due to similarities to necromancers when spirits aren’t involved; similarly, I suspect Dervishes utilize Destruction, Paragons use Preservation, and GW2 Rangers (as GW1 Rangers showed no signs beyond nature rituals to use magic, and we don’t know _what- those are at all) may use Destruction (similar to the Elementalist in theme) or Preservation (most/all of their magic focuses on the same field as Guardians – lightning and healing/protecting).

2) No no, even Destruction magic can be used defensively! For example: you “destroy” the ground around you, and lift it up creating a barrier. This, I believe, is the fundamentality behind Earth Magic for elementalists. In a similar concept, if you create a forcefield bubble in Preservation magic intended to keep things out, and then give it fast momentum, it effectively acts as a magical wrecking ball – what I believe is the concept behind many guardian skills such as Zealot’s Defense.

What this means is that Mesmers can’t use Necromancer, Monk, and Elementalist skills all at once. In GW1, this was shown through the secondary profession system where you can only access two professions – and thus (at first at least) only two schools of magic. It’s impossible to use all three schools. As such, from a lore standpoint, in GW1 no more than one profession could have 2 schools of magic used – otherwise it’d be possible to use all four schools of magic by combining those two professions which use 2 schools (and 3 skills in a profession outright breaks it). So each profession must use 1 school each in GW1, with a possibly single exception (the biggest candidates being Ritualist and Dervish, with Dervish being the bigger).

GW2, however, seems to have a bit of preservation mixed into each class, what with the heavier focus of healing in each profession (some, such as myself, suspect this is due to a weakening of the Preservation bloodstone, believed to be the one in the Maguuma Jungle – in the area now known as the Maguuma Wastes). It is possible that professions have adapted to use 3 schools, but I think that more or less removes the point of the bloodstones in of itself, since 3 schools can be very devastating in of itself, so I find it unlikely.

Like HoboSiege said, the game’s typically best for lore – though do keep in mind that Guild Wars 2 heavily plays on the concept of “subjective truths” – so what NPCs in GW2 say tends to just be their view on the matter, rather than the truth. On the other hand, GW1 plays the “objective until otherwise proven subjective truth” card, where what NPCs say is truth until we’re told otherwise (which can be seen in how NPCs seem to know things that if thought long and hard about, would bring you to ask “how/why do they know this?”).

But if you’re not the kind who enjoys talking to all NPCs you can find, and you hold no intention of playing GW1 (something I suggest against, despite its dying nature – then again, I’m likely biased like many other veterans because there’s no new content thus nothing new for me to do), here’s some links that I suggest you read (note: the Guild Wars Wiki holds the stance of documenting how GW1 presents lore – lore that’s been “proven false/subjective” in GW2 is, mostly, not mentioned on GWW except in cases where GW2W doesn’t have a proper accumulative page (such as articles on Dhuum or Abaddon) and folks have bothered to update the GWW article)…

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore – a general, fan-written summary of historical events leading up to and including GW1; it’s generally wise to go through each link as well, as they elaborate on the subjects more specifically
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Storyline – the links here summarizes the storylines of GW1’s campaigns, expansions, and content updates
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Category:Lore – articles here and within the sub-categories are all lore-focused articles, dig through and enjoy
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Template:Lore_nav – links to general lore articles on GW2W
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Category:Lore – articles of lore focus on GW2W; one of the bigger givers of lore on the GW2W atm is the articles in this category.

Well, he was heading to the Gendarran exit – it’s possible that he goes from the eastern Gendarran Exit and makes a (bad) U shape path in Lion’s Arch. I can see why he’d do that – as an NPC, he can’t jump, which iirc is needed to pass through the old Gangplank bridge that’s at the shorter path. Plus Fort Marriner is, iirc, some sort of trading center in lore.

Durzlla.6295:

They actual seem fairly aggressive seeing as how the first thin they say is that area is theirs and not for charr and norn, they certainly are intelligent (like all grawl) they’re just primitive, and I have a feeling they won’t have a choice in the matter of going to Southsun…

“Defensive” and “aggressive” is not the same thing. They’ve been treated poorly when they’re in the exact same boat as everyone else, how would you expect them to react to a complete stranger?

Durzlla.6295:

Nope, the Grawl will sacrifice the refugees to their new gods, they are more than willing to do so as shown by the Grawl Fractal, and several DEs where they sacrifice people for their god(s).

Each tribe of grawl is different, and this difference depends on what they’re worshiping.

There are tribes of grawl which sacrifice members of their own tribe to their “gods,” after all.

“Legends say a powerful dragon was trapped within the temple and lives there still. " http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Unwaking_Waters_%28Kurzick%29 Sorry, but you’re wrong there. It is not her lair, she did not willingly remain there – otherwise she wouldn’t be trapped.

Regarding the Harvest Ceremony, I dug a bit and it’s all fairly obscure what the purpose was, as there’s only three such lines about it:

“the ruler gave thanks to the gods for another bountiful year.”

“On that most holy day of the Canthan year, when all of the gods were praised to the heavens and the emperor’s divine blessing was placed on the land”

“He struck the moment the emperor had received the second blessing of Holy Dwayna”

All from An Empire Divided.

Though I couldn’t find it, I do recall mention that the magic received was to be spread to the people specifically.

And once more you’re wrong on something: the celestials are not the “emobodiments of the spirits of the stars” – Celestials are spirits of (at least mostly) humans who have transcended into the stars. See:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hai_Jii
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kaijun_Don
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kuonghsang
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tahmu
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Celestial_Pig

At least four of 15-16 celestials were once humans. Why they became celestials isn’t 100% clear, but they exemplified certain traits, and that is implied to be the reasoning.

And I see no similarities with the Harvest Temple and Orr. It was atop a dragon (Kuunavang), and a place related to the Six Gods, but that’s just about it.

Narcemus.1348:

2. Order of Whispers story as a Sylvari. You rig a fight in order to get Caladbolg back, but to give the guy a hallucinogen you have to take it to. “But The Dredge!”

But the oozes… the ooozes! And the dredge!

What’s great is that in the second OoW storyline with Tybalt, you get the same tone as female sylvari when the character gets drunk, and it’s far more hilarious than – at the very least – charr male voice for that (which was not memorable at all).

Vaarq.6497:

Abaddon’s army came from the fact he had ahold of the forge of creation (I think it was called) which allowed him to make his demons. As for the Elder Dragon’s their power is more of a primal thing, it’s like fighting the building blocks of the world. Don’t forget what a god is, has not really been defined as the Charr (I think it was them atleast) saw the human gods as just really strong humans. So there’s not really a clear answer to this.

I’ve heard no such thing as a “forge of creation” – demons spawn from the Mists themselves, and from demonic broodmother-like entities such as the Dreadspawn Maw. Though technically, Abaddon’s army was solely the margonites, as the torment demons were merely in alliance/working with him (just as they were with Dhuum(’s forces)), and Margonites were formerly human.

The charr view the gods as really strong beings – not necessarily humans. And that’s what they are – the Elder Dragons too, technically. But the Six Gods have something the Elder Dragons do not: indestructible power. When Abaddon was killed, his power (which he got from his predecessor) threatened to go rampant until Kormir absorbed it. When Zhaitan died, there was no such power.

To me, it seems more like the Elder Dragons are formed from the building blocks of reality (that is, from the elements of nature) whereas the Six Gods contain parts of the building blocks of nature. As their power is far different from the Elder Dragons, in that it is stronger (while the gods themselves may not be so) – both in its indestructibility and in how the gods shine brightly, blinding those who look upon them directly long enough (compared to the sun).

Teratus.2859:

Abbadon was Slain by Humans using Magic which proves one thing
the Human Gods can be destroyed
and we know from the Wiki that the gods are not omniscient and neither are they omnipotent
meaning that they are not all knowing and their power has limits

This is somewhat debatable. To put it in Kerrsh’s words: the gods are said to be omnipotent in their domain. Meaning that Abaddon, and then Kormir, was/is all-powerful in knowledge; Dwayna is all-powerful in life; Dhuum, and then Grenth, was/is all-powerful in death (this may explain why Dhuum survived being supplanted, and why he calls himself death itself, and claims that he cannot be killed), etc.

Meaning only the god of knowledge would be all powerful; only the gods of life and death have a chance at immortality, etc.

Though this is still just at implication stages.

Teratus.2859:

Now the gods first act on Tyria was to create the City of Arah which was built specifically in a area with massive magical energy (on top of a Elder Dragon)

There’s heavy implication that Arah existed when Dwayna first stepped foot on the world – note: Dwayna was the first of the Six Gods on Tyria.

Teratus.2859:

another thing that supports this is that the Gods stripped their favored Race (The Jotun) of their Magical abilities fearing that the Jotun would use their Magic against them

This coming from one of said “favorite race” that happens to be a very prideful race and this individual is wrong on several points he claims. Thruln the Lost is hardly a reliable source. Why?

The Six Gods didn’t take magic from the jotun – the seers did. The loss of magic didn’t cause the jotuns to fall – civil wars caused by greed and pride did. Humans were not unknown to the gods until they built kingdoms on Tyria – they were brought to the world by the Six Gods after all.

It should also be noted that Thruln never says what gods he’s talking about – and there’s at least 3 other gods in the world: Koda, Great Dwarf, and Mellaggan.

It depends on whether or not Cantha’s xenophobia has disappated or not. Truth be told, I can’t see them welcoming other races with open arms unless they’re under severe distress of some sort and need help from outsiders of any kind.

As such, the best case scenario I see is discrimination against non-humans occuring throughout (much like how tengu and dredge were treated in GW1), and worst case scenario ends with “all non-Canthans are the spawn of Abaddon! They must be eliminated post haste! If you spot a non-Canthan, inform your nearest Ministry of Purity guard today!” with an extra heaping of paranoia via Third Reich mentality induced on the populous (this being caused by the leading body enforcing punishment and possibly death to those who disobey or even speak ill about, but also rewards for those who whistle blow on them).

Given Cantha’s history of each emperor counteracting their father, I can see Usoku’s son/successor revoking the isolationist policy and all that.

Regarding dredge in Cantha – it’s possible some survived, but they would have been persecuted during Usoku’s reign. Wardens, naga, yeti, tengu, and so forth as well.

Regarding quaggans in Cantha – if I’m remembering correctly, the quaggans were north of the krait in the Unending Ocean, and the krait got pushed out of their land from the DSD and then in turn pushed quaggan out of their lands. So it’s unlikely any quaggans went south – as that would be the same as fleeing into enemy territory.

It is, however, possible that largos, krait, and karka – as well as other, still unknown, aquatic races – fled to Cantha.

Anet has a habit of making disappointing end-game bosses, just to make more challenging post-end-game bosses (Iron Forgeman>Undead Lich; Urgoz/Kanaxai>Shiro; Mallyx>Abaddon; Duncan>The Great Destroyer; Giganticus Lupicus>Zhaitan). But this is a mechanical thing, not a lore thing, as is one’s AI behavior, and we talk lore not mechanics.

The best we got, off the top of my head, is the Central Transfer Chamber which uses the same models/textures as EN Tarnished Coast ruins.

There’s also this concept art titled “Asura Ruins,” and looks like said above TC ruins.

Other than that, we only have Rata Pten, which is outright said to be asuran in origin.

Those grawl seem rather more intelligent than others, and peaceful too. So I doubt it, and by what they say, they’re neither welcomed on nor wanting to go to Southsun Cove or anything Consortium related.

You do realize that, while only recently translated, that is from Nightfall beta origins, right?

Things have changed since, and it’s no more “wrong” than the History of Tyria saying the same. In that it was right at the time of the writing, but has since been retconned with the guise of “human history was wrong.”

Not entirely so Narcemus:

Abaddon was the mightiest of the gods, and for a while, the war went in his favor.

This comes from a semi-recently “found” article from the Asian sites, semi-recently translated into English.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/76125-why-abaddon-turned-evil/page__st__30#entry2100579

@Oglaf: I can see where you’re coming from, however, unlike the big chunks of ice that the standard icebrood are, the Claw isn’t such.

@Narcemus: Well, Glint is said during Arah to be made of crystal, so it’s not entirely certain she was a living dragon of flesh before corruption.

Everything you mentioned folks have noticed.

But no, the dredge don’t build massive siege engines – they build drills and sonic devices. The most massive one of them being destroyed in the norn personal storyline (and later reworked for Priory usage).

Oglaf.1074:

That does actually speak for them being corrupted “normal” Dragons, doesn’t it? They resemble the lesser corrupted minions of their “patron”.

That was, exactly, my point.

@Narcemus: In the case of the Shatterer(s), they seem to be stone shaped into a draconic shape.

All dragon champions that are dragons seem to be artificially created from non-living things (be it stone, bones/ice, or corpses).

They’re already revolting. That’s the focus behind Sorrow’s Embrace explorable and the Frostgorge Sound dredge.

At this point, rather than the leadership allying with the Flame Legion, I think the dredge have officially schismed in two – those in favor of the molitariate (aka corrupt government), and those not.

Well last time the EDs consumed all known magic, they went to sleep – though this may be due to a sudden starvation what with the Bloodstone’s creation and hiding of races. But even before the last time the ED were up, they’re said to have awakened previously where they did wipe out (most of – its possible jotun and G-Lupe survived two rises ago, and of the two only the jotun survived the previous) all life – and thus would be left with only each other.

@EndlessDreamer: Both Primordus and Zhaitan, as well as Drakkar (though only a champion) are explicitly stated to excrete draconic magic while slumbering (Primordus was used to power the old asura gate network, while Zhaitan was tapped into when the Six Gods split the Bloodstone into five pieces in order to strengthen it; Drakkar being tapped into caused Svanir to become corrupted and turn into the Nornbear). Though there’s no indication of any corruption being caused by this slumbering excretion of magic.

It’s possible that they only – as Vekk puts it – “practically bleeds magic” while sleeping, but don’t when awake.

Well, I think it’s due to PR. The grawl are generally seen as primitive and barbaric – even if this tribe is one of the peaceful ones. If they move to a vacation spot that already has karka as neighbors, that just makes Southsun Cove all the less desirable – regardless of why the grawl or there or whatever else the Consortium may bring there.

I do think its said to be the case for Jormag – or at least the Sons of Svanir believe Jormag knows all their semi and fully corrupted members do and know. And if it’s the case for two of four active Elder Dragons…

Though Primordus wouldn’t exactly be unintelligent, since he’s still learn all that his minions see, and knowing what one’s minions know wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) raise the Elder Dragons’ IQ – just what they have learned. So if Primordus ever figures out how to translate asuran, then he’d have centuries worth of asuran research to read through…

Erukk.1408:

I was joking when I said Kuunavang might be connected to the deep sea dragon. If it is connected to an Elder Dragon, it would be more along earth/plant based in nature. Kuunavang is the harvest dragon after all, so maybe the still unknown 6th dragon?

Plus, it would tie into the speculation that the sylvari and nightmare court possibly being connected to one.

Apparently, you’re confused somewhere.

Kuunavang is in no way shape or form related to the Harvest Ceremony, which in turn is not related in any known way shape or form to earth and nature. The Harvest Ceremony was a ceremony where the Emperor received a gift from the gods and then spread it to the people of Cantha – the “harvest” was of magic.

Also, the sylvari show no signs of being tied to Mordremoth (though the Nightmare does, and in turn the Nightmare Court does, but not the sylvari as a race – if people actually looked more than skin-deep at the situation, they’d realize this).

If anything, Kuunavang’s tied to some sort of sky/star Elder Dragon, given her ties to the celestials (she gives celestial skills) and air magic.

Oglaf.1074:

I don’t think the Claw of Jormag is technically an Elder Dragon as well, but rather a lesser dragon corrupted by Jormag?

No, it’s not an Elder Dragon – it’s a dragon champion like the Shatterers (made of rock and lightning) or Tequatl and co. (made out of corpses of various things, presumably). The Claws of Jormag (yes, there’s more than one) seem to be a construct of bones and ice – much like the Dragonspawn was. For starters, the Claws’ wings are definitely pure ice, however their legs look like frozen bone.

Excelliate.7914:

The only thing I saw that could suggest incorrupt large dragons existing at all were some old bones in the pre-searing catacombs that bear a slight resemblance to GW2’s dragon champions(they certainly aren’t Lupicus bones).

These bones have been making me rather curious as of late. They were originally believed to be Giganticus Lupicus bones, given their size and lack of G-Lupe appearances. There are three kinds of bones strewn throughout Tyria and Elona – and interestingly, they’re not seen in Cantha, but they are seen in the Underworld, Realm of Torment, and the Rift. Some of these have a serpentine appearance, while others have a more mammoth-like appearance. So its hard to say exactly what they were, and they appear in places from once-aquatic areas (Crystal Desert) to savannahs (Kourna) to jungles (Tarnished Coast, specifically underground in the TC) to mountains (Southern and Far Shiverpeaks). Whatever they were, they were wide-spread.

Charr don’t eat sentient races (anymore). Though it’s implied – heavily – that they ate humans in GW1’s time, we’ve been told that they don’t in GW2’s time, at the very least.

@ZoSo: Likely just an empty threat.

The Elder Dragons are more like “intelligent forces of nature that grow both more powerful and more intelligent as they corrupt more” – since they learn everything they corrupt learned, those which corrupt a lot of intelligent living beings will become very smart in turn.

That probably means Primordus is the dumbest Elder Dragon.

I cannot see any connection between Kuunavang and the deep sea dragon – there’s nothing water-related to Kuunavang at all. If she’s tied to an Elder Dragon, which I wouldn’t doubt given the past relation between Glint and Kuunavang mentioned before (and later, Glint was compared to Rotscale, and also even later, after EoD’s release, Jeff and Ree contradicted each other about Glint and Kuunavang where Ree said they were different but Jeff said they’re similar, and then Jeff compared them to the Elder Dragons being both different but similar from each other), said connection Kuunavang would have with an ED would be to a seventh unknown ED (note: yes, we’re told there’s seven Elder Dragons, but this is of jotun knowledge and incomplete findings at that, so if jotun never heard of this other Elder Dragon… Plus, after Victory or Death in his little instance in Fort Trinity, Trahearne mentions dragons awakening across the world).

Oglaf.1074:

Okay, maybe “native home” was a poor choice of words on my part. Doesn’t change anything: there were Dredge living in the areas surrounding Hoelbrak and the Norns arrived and gave them the boot. A lot of Hearts in the lowbie Norn areas revolve around kicking Dredge around still. There’s definitely a reason for the Dredge to team up with the Fire Legion to retake Wayfarer’s Foothills.

Those dredge are actually invading Hoelbrak’s surroundings, not the other way around.

It’s rather poor form to blame the norn on attacking the dredge, when we can’t say which attacked first, and both races have groups which pre-emptively assault the other. And there’s only a few of such norn, but all dredge (except rebels not seen in Wayfarer) are of this sort.

Lokheit.7943:

They took Destroyers as replacement for Titans as gods in the past, so maybe now knowing about their origin (an Elder Dragon) they take the Sons of Svannir route and try to please Primordious.

With Dredge, I always though the Destroyer in path 3 was more a remain of Inquest job there rather than the Dredge intentionally seeking destroyers help, but even then maybe now that they know how to deal with them as allies they can see how the Destroyers can benefit them in destroying (pun intended) the opponents to their regime.

Maybe both have found a way to work with them and the destroyers are the ones forcing them to work together to prepare a bigger attack.

1) It was remnant of Inquest work – the Inquest gave the dredge leadership a means to control destroyers. The Destroyer of Worlds wasn’t acting out of its (or Primordus’) own will.

2) Jormag is unique and is the only Elder Dragon shown to work with non-corrupted creatures; Primordus is the least likely to work with the races since he seems by all indication intent with killing every last one (as opposed to corrupting every living being like the others). So I cannot see Primordus utilizing living beings personally. The only way I see destroyers related to this story would be if the dredge had re-obtained a means to control destroyers and the Flame Legion, being fire fanatics that they are, want to exploit this.

3) Given points 1 and 2, I think Primordus would be more kitten off at the dredge and Inquest than any other group and would be more likely to target them first rather than get them to work for him.