Vizur Kildebran sought to defend the city and used magic from the forbidden scrolls locked away in the vaults of Arah (some of Abbadons Magic) and perhaps, unwittingly and much to Abbadons amusement, Sent Orr to the bottom of the sea (this did not turn the nation into an army of undead as stated above, that was Zhaitan…). This event, Gave the name to the Sea of Sorrows.
Actually, the Lost Scrolls is just said to contain magic from before the Bloodstone’s creation – though this is said with the belief that said Bloodstones were made in 1 BE.
Regarding Zhaitan causing the original Orrian undead – to elaborate on what drax said, it was Jeff Grubb who said that the Cataclysm had no effect on Zhaitan. Furthermore, the GW1 Orrian undead act VASTLY different than the Risen, and as shown by Svanir even if the Elder Dragon is sleeping, the mentality of its minions remains the same.
So there’s more evidence to it not being related to Zhaitan than there is for the original Orrian undead to have been. Zhaitan is said to have taken over the original Orrian undead as well, after all.
Overall? Ignoring the limitations of GW2’s game engine I’d like something like Shadow of the Colossus but mixing in unique Guild Wars lore elements to it. Just never the whole “attack from inside!” cuz logically speaking that makes no bloody sense since such concepts always have us outside organs despite being swallowed…
But not ignoring GW2 engine limitations? Probably along these lines:
(more in next post – kitten 5001 character limit!)
The difference between human legends and developer comments (where we get that Elder Dragons predate the Six Gods, and where we get that the Six Gods aren’t much older than humanity) is that one is subjective while the other is objective – respectively.
Also, Charr have features not found in cats (e.g., horns, different ears, reversed knees on hindlimbs).
Those aren’t really knees. They’re the same body joint which acts as our heel – consider most animals to be standing on the balls of their feet/tippy toes (whichever terminology you’d prefer). All animals have this including humans and cats – it’s just that we walk on that part, whereas other animals (not all obviously) don’t.
Just my little nitpick.
The problem is that we’re outright told that the Elder Dragons predate the Six Gods’ time on Tyria. And similarly, we’re told by devs that the Six Gods don’t predate humanity by much (“by much” being subjective though, and how they predate humanity isn’t clear whether it’s about the time on Tyria, or existing as a whole), so they couldn’t be several thousands years older than humanity on Tyria.
Furthermore, the Six Gods physically leaving the world has nothing to do with the Elder Dragons, as they left after the war with Abaddon that devastated a lot of the currently known world. The only possible tie with the Elder Dragons and their disappearance would be the silence of the gods – that is, the stopping of communications.
What you’re saying of the charr legends is exactly what I was saying, in fact – minus the “primitive brains” part (I’d rather go with “primitive culture” :P). I would furthermore put that as why humans believed the gods created the world as well.
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If you look at the unexplored world map, the river north from Viathan Lake is one leading to Majesty’s Rest, flowing right by Fort Salma. I looked in game and it seems that it splits from NW of Fort Salma from a waterfall, one side going to Viathan Lake the other heading towards Brisban Wildlands. While the Majesty’s Rest river just “ends” since the river stops lining up with the unfogged version near Fort Salma.
My guess is one of two things:
1) Anet messed up.
2) The Majesty’s Rest river flows between Queensdale and Kessex Hills, leading both into Clayent Falls and the river near Fort Salma. The unfogged map is just “off” (not uncommon) of its actual placement prior to passing Fort Salma,
It should also be noted that the Majesty’s Rest river has since merged with former Greater Giant’s Basin. Which is interesting to note and makes me curious if all those pipes and water works also come in with distillers to turn salt water into fresh water. Or if there’s some other quality that have either turned the former Greater Giant’s basin into fresh water or those rivers into such.
I’d presume the dams around Divinity’s Reach would, since Shaemoor rivers start from them, so there may be another kitten in that unexplored area since that should be part of the Krytan kingdom still.
I don’t think the NC has a direct connection to Mordremoth, but I believe the nightmare may – it’s also that Faolain first witnessed the nightmare in Orr, giving it a potential tie to the Elder Dragons (which is one of the speculated origins of it, even).
There’s a lot of similarities between NC and dragon minions (such as some means of conversion and how once converted you can’t go back, as pointed out), except that NC have free will and don’t show physical change. Then again, there are also a lot of similarities in the mentality of Foefire ghosts and dragon minions.
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That’s my own personal theory that I had when I researched Mordremoth months ago. Found here though now long outdated since I’ve seen more things regarding it.
Been thinking of redoing that research.
@Curuniel: I’d presume that norn age at the same comparison rate (that is, they mature slower but at a same percentage rate as humans and the like), but they’re more fit when older because unlike humans, they’re always active trying to make legends. Most norn don’t have retirement plans.
@Rednik: That’s presuming that charr “hands” function the same way feet do. We can tell that’s how their feet are, but if lengthened (an added bone or just longer ones), it may be possible to use the middle phalanx for gripping, rather than the last. Looking at the picture, just put more space between the two paws and allow a greater dip and you’d have enough to grip a good number of things. They’d have more trouble than otherwise, but gripping’s still possible. Now, presume that their hands aren’t shaped the same as paws – you got whole new possibilities!
I don’t think it would be necesary to make it 3-3-3 on armor class. Remember GW1 was 2-3-5. Also, there are 3 HP tiers too, and I don’t want another tier 1 armor + tier 1 HP (both tiers are 2-3-3 right now so by that logic it’s the only option).
However, GW1 had a dedicated healer while ArenaNet has explicitly stated that there will never be such in GW2. Furthermore, each school of magic had a caster – now that there’s no dedicated healer, that fourth scholar went into heavier (specifically heavy with Paragon) armor. Then with the mechanics of the ritualists being changed into the engineer, that removes the fifth caster.
Unless ritualists are vastly different than their GW1 counterpart, they won’t return. And given how in both mechanics and lore the monks became the guardian, they won’t either. So GW1’s standing on professions only go so far as “if there’s change, the dervish may return (but unlikely given lore), and if there’s change the ritualist may return (but unlikely given Cantha’s isolationism and the seeming lack of the profession spreading before then).”
Don’t get me wrong though – I’d love to see the Ritualists return. They were among my favorite professions, aesthetic and lore wise.
Really I think we don’t need new professions. The 8 we have, with more weapon options cover all holes. Give Staff to a Ranger and you got a Druid with nature magic, animals and spirits, give a Thief a second sword and a rifle and you got a Corsair with pillagin (steal) skills, give him a Staff with melee skills (same way Necromancer uses Axe as a totem) and he’s a martial artist (many Thieves in different stories use Staff as a melee weapon, like Gambit who is a Thief), etc…
I’m in agreement regarding the basics. Rather than new professions, I’d rather see new weapons given to the existing professions.
Bring back the bunny humper (aka give rangers a hammer)!
I wouldn’t mind one or two more professions just to balance things out – not only with the number of professions per armor tier, but also number of profession per schools of magic (hence one (former) or two later). I really wouldn’t mind seeing a dark knight kind of heavy armor (Aggression magic (necromancer’s school)+heavy armor? No need for life stealing and minions, just as thief doesn’t use illusions this Aggression magic soldier could go in different directions).
I could see life stealing being the shared mechanic between necromancers and this third soldier akin to how mesmers and thieves share stealth and teleportation (aka shadowstepping).
I’m tired of this back-and-forthness so I’ll just respond to this:
By that definition, are the mursaat elves? No, not at all. Yes they’re more powerful, but they’re also evil overlords. You never get the impression that there could be some kind of back-and-forth where mursaat could fall to become human or humans could, if they only were a little bit better, rise to become mursaat.
You clearly haven’t been in the lore community for long.
The original theories on the mursaat were that they were ascended humans. Hell, if not for GW2 outright stating they predate humanity, that theory would still exist. Furthermore, people have made theories saying that the mursaat took Saul and turned him into a mursaat!
Before GW2 and WiK painted the mrusaat as selfish kittens who’d sell their own mother to save their skin, the mursaat were almost always viewed as a race who were doing the lesser of two evils for the greater good – sacrifice a few thousand humans that could potentially doom the world to keep the Door of Komalie closed and, in turn, keep the Titans (and by extension, The Fury and Abaddon) at bay.
The mursaat started out exactly like the largos but with even more mysteriousness around them! In fact they began as WORSE offenders to the very claims you’re giving the largos in terms of the humanoid appearance! The mursaat were far more dark elf-like than the largos will ever be. They only recently – with GW2 – escaped that filing. Now why would Anet remove the mursaat just to put another race into it? Face it, all your complaints are based on the sole lack of information. It isn’t mysteriousness, it’s unknown. There’s a difference.
Without the wings, there is literally nothing besides skin color and ear length to visually differentiate the largos from humans. That is a serious problem.
Without the wings, there is literally nothing besides skin color and powerful magic to visually differentiate the mursaat from humans. That is a serious problem.
cwutididthar?
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Yeah, I think people have settled things here rather well.
1. You start prophecies out in a time aptly labled “pre-searing” because it is the day before the searing occurs
2. When you leave pre-searing the searing occurs demolishing most of Ascalon, making the land unlivable, and the charr army crosses through thinking the Ascalonians broken.
3. The charr travel through Ascalon, the Crystal Desert (I always assumed the charr went through a part of the Crystal Desert we didn’t see, knowing that we didn’t see much), and arrive at the doors of the City of Arah
4. Vizier Khilbron performs magic from a scroll of magic found deep beneath the city of Arah. The magic shatters the peninsula, kills much of the charr army, and raises the citizens of Orr as an army of undead
5. You start the Post-Searing storyline, and the rest of the Guild Wars story happens from there.
Pretty much this. There’s no lorebreak – the “ghosts” (they aren’t actually ghosts but etheric memories given shape or some such – ask an asura to explain that to you) are reliving a moment before the Cataclysm which occurred a full year after the Searing.
I don’t think it’s confirmed the charr went through the Crystal Desert (they could have just traveled along the foothills of the Shiverpeak Mountains and crossed the land bridge that is now Izz-al-adin), but they assaulted Orr after they caused the Searing in Ascalon, the group assaulting Orr having gone through Ascalon.
It seems the issue is that you (mister OP) believed that Orr never sunk. Which would be wrong – in fact, it seems based on the ruins that much of Orr is still underwater – the outer edges of the western and eastern/northeastern sides at least, and it seems that Orr was connected directly to the Shiverpeak Mountains and not just by a shallow island chain.
The river in Kessex Hills is actually coming from north of Brisban – it goes west of Fort Salma. It leads to what was, in GW1, Majesty’s Rest. Most likely, that’s the source of those two rivers – though where it comes from from there idk.
And yes, the bodies of water surrounding Divinity’s Reach is salt water. In GW1, that was the Greater Giant’s Basin (what’s now Lake Gendarr and Guardian Lake in Gendarran Fields and Harathi Hinterlands respectively was the Lesser Giant’s Basin – the tidal wave from Zhaitan’s rise seems to have revealed/enlarged islands there); in GW1, it was stated that Giant’s Basin is an inland body of salt water. But back then water didn’t flow from either.
This is probably why the former Greater Giant’s Basin is kitten off, though the Lesser Giant’s Basin seems to have become fresh water (then again, it may always have been as GW1 often referred to both as a single body of water despite being two separate entities).
You should read the third paragraph, Dustfinger:
“With dominance, however, came the inevitable problems. Internal strife, reckless power-mongering, and brutal feuds threatened to tear apart this otherwise secure empire. Only the strong personality of the Khan-Ur kept this ferocious and, yes, still-primitive race unified.”
And if you played GW1, you’ll see that they were still fairly primitive culture wise even then.
But to stop digressing and going off-topic of the original point. The legends are false and there are STILL no indications that point those legends predating humanity on the world of Tyria – before humanity on continental Tyria, perhaps, perhaps not, but nothing implies nor indicates the legends are older than the human race on the world.
I don’t define elves by skin color or pointy ears, I define them by “Nearly inseparable from humans in form and function except for token modifications. Typically longer lived, wiser, and more mysterious.”
We have no clue how long largos live – no indication that they live either longer or shorter than other races, at all. The largos hardly seem any more wiser than humans – in fact, they seem on par, but knowing a different field while not knowing others’, and I’d hardly say that they themselves are meant to be mysterious – their mysterious nature seems solely on the fact that they’re not very well exposed.
And besides, if that’s what you define an elf to be, you’re solely mistaken on what an elf is.
Hell, by your definition the mursaat are elves! HOLY kitten PROPHECIES HAD ELVES! Hell, seers could be considered such by those three things as well. They’re basically four-armed dark-skinned bald humans who are 1) wise, 2) long lived (the one we meet in Prophecies? It met the titans eons ago), and 3) mysterious (nothing known).
If that’s all that’s needed to get your knickers in a bunch, they shoulda been bunching since day one.
To your postulation about chopping off a largos’ wings and seeing nothing wrong:
What if you chopped off a seer’s second set of arms? What if you got rid of norn’s shapeshifting? What if you got rid of the mursaat’s “wings”? What if you got rid of the fish-like skin of the Margonites? Could you tell anything was missing? No. Because they’re all limbs that aren’t essential for their way of life.
But if you cut off a largos’ arm or leg? Yeah, you’re going to notice something wrong. This isn’t an issue with the largos – this is a situation with dozens of animals. Whenever you get more than four limbs, getting rid of the extra won’t seem all that weird.
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That would be wrong, Curuniel. The average natural lifespan of a norn is 130 – and they can still be physically active at that point. Eir Stegalkin herself is hinted to be around that age range as well (she was a child when Hoelbrak was being built, and a childhood friend of Kennak the Short who was the first one to build a homestead outside of Hoelbrak down south).
The asura are known to have a 5-10% longer natural lifespan than Tyrian humans, with exceptional lifespans reaching 120.
The Pale Tree states that was a vision of Zhaitan. And TBH, it didn’t look anything like Primordus – it looked like a plant version of Tequatl the Sunless and Zhaitan’s other dragon champions (literally just a recoloring – whereas while Shatterer and Claw of Jormag uses the same animations, they have different head shapes and the like).
They’re called charr lands in-game. There’s a huge charr settlement (named Deathblade’s Watch) within those lands alongside at least five lesser charr outposts (two, as mentioned, have been ceded due to the peace talks and taken over by ogres; one is used by the Sentinels and another is lost to the Dragonbrand).
Humans are building beyond the charr fort placements, in land they’re saying is charr land, so the charr are ceding land to humans (or at least ceded two forts and are letting humans onto their land that’s east of the Dragonbrand) due to the peace talks.
Firstly, I would like to merely question what people think the average life length of a charr is. It’s not stated on the wiki or anywhere else to my knowledge, but a friend of mine said they would likely have shorter lives than humans being big cats who are mostly carnivorous.
Jeff Grubb said in an interview once that charr have the same maturity rate as humans. As such, their natural lifespans should be roughly the same as humans, not shorter as most believe. Though I don’t think many charr get to their “natural lifespan” – much like norn.
Though of the unnatural deaths we know of, the lifespan would roughly be the same as humans I’d imagine.
Another topic I’d like to discuss is the presence or absence of retractable claws in charr.
-snip rest-
I think the model design is more of an animation/modelling issue rather than a change in lore. I mean, it’d be hard to have small claws that retract with the in-game models – not impossible, but a lot more work than worth overall. I think this delves into the realm of “what’s shown isn’t completely accurate” and their claws would technically be smaller.
On their age, Pyre Firceshot was a hero and adult. 40 years later his grandcub became another hero. So this at least loosely makes human and charr lifespan comparable.
It should be noted that Kalla was born in 1079 – one year after Eye of the North – so when we saw Pyre in GW1 he already had a son of unknown age. But Kalla was roughly 40 years old when killed by poison.
“Beginnings of history” typically means recorded history so that’s not saying much about a race that had been rather primitive in culture for a long time.
And also keep in mind that when humans beat back charr with the help of their gods, the charr began to believe that they needed gods of their own. I wouldn’t be surprised the legends originated from the Flame Legion which have always been the most religious of the race.
Bloodgorge Watch Camp and Sapper’s Delve were both charr camps within Fields of Ruin that were abandoned by said charr when peace negotiations began. Since then, ogres have taken control of those bases. Furthermore, there’s mention by NPCs that the Ebon Vanguard have received “charr metal” and other weaponry as peace offerings for beginning negotiations – which in turn are being used against the ogres. So they’re doing more than simply “stop continuing to try to take that land”
Oh, I wasn’t saying you were wrong about it happening. Just that I didn’t recall such and I found that odd since my memory of usually useless things is very good and I try to pride myself on observing everything about a game to fully enjoy the developers’ time spent on it all.
The explanation Korsbaek mentions is the only one you can really believe with things as they are. The largos are a land race, pure and simple, that for some unexplained reason decided to live in the depths. They’re ill-adapted and can’t even breath underwater (or at least, that seems the logical explanation for their masks), yet somehow they have developed these “fins” I’m supposed to believe work underwater? No, I don’t buy it.
Funny, I noted the same possibility for the largos – the same Semil.8279 mentioned. They hold a lot of similarities to Orrians. I wouldn’t doubt if they were humans “blessed” by a god of water -coughAbaddoncough- to live underwater or some such. Or that they, for some reason, adapted to underwater life. Or just simply hold shared ancestors.
Though personally I’m hoping for the similarity to go only so far as “they were both brought from the same other world by the Six Gods.”
Also, the mask doesn’t imply they can’t breath underwater. Given their voice sounding like they’re speaking through liquid, I think the mask is more of an “airbreather” than an “aquabreather” – and to me, that’d be far more interesting. That they’d be incapable of breathing pure air and thus need their mask to live above water.
For me, Guild Wars is a more interesting world without a race of elves tossed in.
I agree. And largos are nothing like elves. Ears and similar skin tone to Warcraft “night elves” (fun fact: original night elves from norse mythology are interchangable with dwarves) or not.
Sticking wings on and putting them underwater doesn’t make up for the fact that they’re still pretty much just elves.
And if you notice, their entire culture differs. There’s little to nothing that’s elf-like to me in largos.
Then again, I don’t pay attention to warcraft.
I wouldn’t mind a redesign, however I don’t think a “massive” one is needed. Maybe animation changes, but again I think you’re over-exaggerating the problem.
The only animations of theirs that’s bad is their above water animations (especially the wings in that situation). But underwater I think their animations are fine. Not perfect, but not causing such great issues you’re making out.
Yeah, you’re entitled to your opinion, but I still think you’re over-exaggerating things.
Speaking of aquabreathers, it is worth noting that Largos seem to wear aquabreathers. This suggests they might not be naturally aquatic.
I take those masks more as being breathers for above water.
Odd, I didn’t see a change when I witnessed Gullik’s visit.
Those aren’t literal constellations though. The Celestials are being who live among the stars. They’re not constellations as we know them, just souls of deceased humans (and possibly other races) that have taken on star-and-animal aspects.
Worse yet, they move nearly identically in or out of water with very little respect to either environment.
Apparently you and I are seeing different animations then.
It’s written off as a “magic”.
If anyone’s writing things off as “its magic” – it’s the players. Namely, you in this case.
The sylvari have havens scattered through the Maguuma and southern Kryta regions
The Lionguard have havens. Those havens aren’t sylvari. The Cears are though, but there’s only one in southern Kryta, which is for fighting Zhaitan’s influence.
a noncombat Seraph uniform
I didn’t know that they had such. The only non-armored Seraph I’ve ever seen are those wrapped in bandages.
As to west of the canyon – I always took it as Ettins since that’s the threat which is obviously right there. I wouldn’t think that Garrenhoff who are nice and cozy in their little home would care that much for the outside world. Self-isolation, I’d believe is happening. And that would probably be why the Arcane Eye has a base there.
so you think it more lilely that the charr, a race who ws used to ruling tyria, when con=fronted with a race of humans who displaced them using the power of the gods behind them, decided to adopt the legend of one random human god to create the world they were already on when they reguard the gods of not worthy of worship but merely something to be destroyed? that makes more sense to you?
The charr never ruled Tyria – nothing even says they’re older than humanity either, technically, just older than humans on continental Tyria (meaning they’re older than 205 BE – and humans were on Cantha for about 500 years since that point, and they came from somewhere else first, implied to be south of Cantha by Jeff Grubb). The only race said to have possibly done this was the jotun.
And I was thinking more along the lines of meeting dwarves or Forgotten – or even centaurs (we know some worship Balthazar) – who spread the legend (there are dwarves who, despite the race being older than the Six Gods on Tyria, worship Dwayna and Grenth, at the least).
The Consortium sigil looks like a deactivated golem. You see it all over Southsun Cove and anywhere else dealing with Consortium.
It looks like the Priory key from the more detailed emblems (which effectively look like the Krytan flag on a pole that ends in a skeleton key) encircled to me.
the canthan letter for E.
Yeah, you’re definitely terribly off there. Canthan doesn’t have letters – it’s just ideograms with each symbol representing a full word. The only translatable alphabets in GW that translate into letters is Ascalonian, Asuran, and New Krytan. Considering this is in Lion’s Arch, it’s New Krytan.
Now, where in Lion’s Arch is it? It’s pretty big you know.
Nature: Sylvari
Spiritual: Human
Nature and Spiritual: Norn
There ya go.
Someone mentioned Sylvari in a previous post (spelt wrong granted), but even then Sylvari don’t feel too Nature attuned to me and feel more like plant based Humans, which is what I think ANET was going for granted…
They don’t feel like humans at all to me. At least not Tyrian (world mind you) ones.
But no, they didn’t want to make them too humanoid – they wanted to make them as *in*human while still humanoid.
They seem to have the same sort of physical deformities as the previous ones like the tentacles on Kormir in Divinities Reach.
There are no tentacles. Are you referring to those two spots on her head? Those are wings – specifically part of the head piece she wore as a human. Or do you mean the wave-like things around her? They look nothing like tentacles anyways.
Thruln’s legends would then correspond with the human legends, as they could have favored giants in a past life, but then brought humans to Tyria in different forms. Melandru was most likely the same being previously, due to the charr myths. She “made” Tyria the way it is today.
But Dwayna, Balthazar, and Melandru came from the mists – and as gods. This was the first time the Six Gods walked on Tyria. I don’t think that’d be the case. It’d be extremely unlikely, especially the Melandru bit since she was the third of the Sixto walk on Tyria.
It isn’t impossible, but honestly, it’s just too unlikely.
Off topic, but there is one centaur who fought against Ugloth and was exiled to live with the humans. She claims most others were exiled as well when they even considered the war to be going nowhere. Ettins have one area where they are allied, grawl are varied completely, hylek are the same as grawl only more advanced, bandits say they did this only to feed families in a heart where you are disguised as one, and Nightmare is a “disease” according to Caithe, where Faolin literally poisoned her with nightmare in Edge of Destiny. So there are many grey areas in this.
Ettins, grawl, and hyleks aren’t really an enemy faction. The centaur is my point – also, he. And he’s the sole outcast, unless there’s a new centaur somewhere (you’re referring to the scholar one in Lion’s Arch, correct?).
Bandits are a tricky one. They’re the most gray, but still you only get a very very select handful who aren’t “kill, maim, kitten pillage!” generic foes. And those that aren’t such are “the queen’s a tyrant!” mindwashed folk.
The nightmare isn’t really a disease, but it’s removable if it hasn’t taken root is all. But the Nightmare Court are far from gray. Like I said, there might be one to four folks, but never that many more. Bandits have the most with, I think, 5.
At the very least, in my mind the statue located in Divinity’s Reach of Kormir looked much more like her rising from the “fires of torment” or something similar rather than tentacles coming off of her.
Interesting interpretation. I always pictured it as being waves of power or something similar – something that represents her domain of spirit which she gained since the GW1 statues were made.
Your assumed timespans are equally arbitrary.
1. a good reason to leave
2. Or it implies they left.
You seem to ignore the point that developers have told us of when they arrived.
My timespans are arbitrary how? Are you sure you’re using the right word? Because it’s not based on my personal view or on a whim or the like.
We know for a fact that:
We also know that:
All this points to the legend the charr hold not being truth (fact), and that it doesn’t predate humanity on Tyria (as Melandru doesn’t predate humanity on Tyria by implications), and furthermore that the Six Gods came to Tyria for the first time after the Elder Dragons’ previous rise (but not necessarily their hibernation – as said, it seems they arrived during the rise, and perhaps distanced themselves thus leaving themselves unknowing to where Zhaitan went to sleep, though this is speculation at its finest).
The largos were never seen in GW1, and we’re told they’re deep sea creatures. That’s enough for me to assume that they’re meant for the deep sea and not land. If its not enough for you, then fine, you’ve got a better suspension of disbelief than I do.
Krait are also from the deep sea. But they build structures that go from these ocean depths to the water’s surface. Is it really impossible to believe the largos can’t do the same? Is it impossible to believe that while the largos may now live in the ocean depths, they didn’t before? That they could have been frequenting land before being pushed out of the Unending Ocean? Or that they lived in/near underwater air pockets?
It’s got nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. It’s got to do with there being so many reasonable and realistic possibilities.
I mean, they come from the same places at quaggans. Why do quaggans have legs and not fins? Does this break your immersion too?
As to their precise anatomy, you’ll have a very hard time convincing me that their wings are actually functional fins.
Seeing them swim convinced me. When I saw them on land and saw how the “wings” were connected, I shared your view. It made little sense for the wings to be attached to the bottom of the neck (where the neck and shoulders meet, but above the shoulder bone). But watching the animation, it was actually made believable.
Now, keep in mind this: the Largos probably would pass the quality test for half a hundred other games. Good games, even great games. They’re just not right for Guild Wars.
How, exactly, do they qualify for other games but not Guild Wars? What makes this so?
In my mind we’re seeing like 6 or 7 Largos over the course of the game? I wouldn’t say any more than 10 of a WHOLE RACE.
I think there’s exactly 9 – including the one who was in game for only a weekend during The Lost Shores.
In my mind we’re seeing like 6 or 7 Largos over the course of the game? I wouldn’t say any more than 10 of a WHOLE RACE.
I think there’s exactly 9 – including the one who was in game for only a weekend during The Lost Shores.
As to remodeling – I still don’t think its necessary. I think people just need to see more of them so that their good points stand out more. Most folks I’ve seen complain about the largos look at them at face value (or I suppose mask value for them). Though I do think they’ll receive more details, like a better face should the masks ever come off, as well as an explanation behind the masks and voice tones, but I don’t think an in-depth remodel would be needed.
Just don’t go giving them flippers…
However, we know that the Six Gods don’t predate humanity on Tyria by much. Regardless of whether or not Melandru or humans walked on the world first, the legend is false and so when it came about is irrelevant and nothing demands the charr’s legend to predate humanity. Even if the only timeframe we have is the Orrian History Scrolls which imply a near instantaneous transition of Dwayna arriving to bringing humanity and Jeff Grubb saying that the Six Gods predate humanity “but not by much,” there’s still nothing to indicate that there was enough timespan between the third god arriving and humanity arriving when the second god to arrive wanted humanity to conquer the world.
You said I arbitrarily assumed a legend is false (no, I didn’t), but it’s actually you who’s arbitrarily assuming – that the legend predates humanity on the world.
And besides, regardless of whether the legend predates humanity on Tyria or not, the original point to it is the claim that Melandru – if not the Six Gods – were around during the original Bloodstone’s creation. However, isn’t this impossible?
We know for a FACT that the Six Gods didn’t arrive on Tyria until after the mursaat/seer war. This war occurred either during or after the last Elder Dragon rise. We don’t know when the Bloodstone was made in relation to this war, but indications give that the Bloodstone was made after the war, as said implications are that the war is the “betrayal.”
We know that the legend is false – Tyria existed before any of the Six Gods walked on Tyria. It is a fact stated by the developers long before Guild Wars 2 was released.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
It would be interesting if wherever humanity came from before Tyria (the world that is) was a globe, so they just assumed Tyria was a globe too and it stuck with them. But it’s not a globe – nor a disc! It’s… a TRIANGLE!
Yup.
Yup, we like to see things as black and white (Mursaat bad, Seers good) but instead there are just many shades of grey.
I can’t blame folks, since Anet has a habit of doing that to their groups.
Separatists? Yeah, they hate charr, so much they can’t stand peace. But each and every one of them also just so happens to be a family-killing back-stabbing racist kitten who’d be fine stomping on babies to kill some charr. The only exceptions are those two or three who didn’t realize how evil their co-workers were and have “seen the light” and went AWOL.
Take above paragraph, replace Separatists with any enemy faction/race, and put in their own reasons. But they’re all “family-killing back-stabbing racist kitten who’d be fine stomping on babies to kill their enemies” – bandit, krait, Flame Legion, Renegades, Branded, centaur. You name it.
So it seems jotun probably didn’t see the seers as gods though they still may have assumed it was the gods doing when their magic was taken.
Except that, as far as we’re aware, the Six Gods didn’t exist in Tyria yet.
The charr legend of melandru creating the world would likely be older than humanities existance on the world. so id dwayna really did come before melandu then dwayna would also have needed to be here.
Why would that be? Nothing really requires false legends to exist before humanity when there’s no relation to humanity at the time. Besides, based off of Orrian History Scrolls humanity may have arrived before Melandru.
There’s already a few threads on this…
But if there would ever get a 9th profession, it’ll be heavy armor just to even things out I’m certain. Given how there seems to be 2 Destruction magic users and 2 Denial magic users (both being 1 light and 1 medium – albeit ranger using Destruction like elementalists is questionable), it’d probably be an Aggression magic user in heavy armor akin to the guardian, or alternatively more of a heavy armor technology focus fella (though that holds potential clashing with warrior who’s no-magic). I say this since it’d be silly to have 2 heavy armor Preservation magic users.
Hard to tell with the small text, but the text looks like New Krytan to me. And that key in the background seems to be an inverse of the Durmand Priory’s emblem.
Where is this found?
Who said anything about the largos never walking on the surface? That’s your fault, not the games. Also, you have no clue how those wings are attached in terms of their strength, so why are you complaining about your own assumptions?
I personally theorize the largos hold shared origins with the humans – given some similarities between them and Orrian culture (both have Arabic names, Sayeh can read Orrian) and the (albeit questionable) similarities between Dwayna and Melandru and the largos.
My hopes/view on the Maguuma Wastes is one of two:
Primordus vs. Mordremoth (or just their forces) in that area.
Or the Bloodstone is being messed with, and the magical healing waters of the Maguuma Jungle are becoming less magical because of that.
if the mystic telescope in arah is to be believed, mordremoth is still asleep.
it will wake up when the constellation forms, but looking through the telescope, it’s still forming
Presuming there’s only six Elder Dragons, and that telescope isn’t foretelling a seventh one that was unknown to the jotun.
Obsidian Flame didn’t have a flag or emblem that we saw. It’d be more helpful if we knew what you were looking for. Perhaps post the emblem you’re looking to compare stuff to?
Also, I believe they didn’t focus Zhaitan on sylvari but simply Trahaerne
If it weren’t for the Pale Reavers, the Pale Tree, A Light in the Darkness, and the cleansing ritual coming from the Pale Tree’s bark (Caladbolg), I’d probably agree.
But there’s a lot more sylvari elements than human elements in the fight.
The final boss will either be DSD, the last dragon to wake(or maybe that’s Mordremoth?) which is powerful enough to keep Tyria completely isolated, or Primordus if the Asura don’t get him, since he was the first to awake and possibly the biggest(assuming).
Kralkatorrik was the last known dragon to wake – with Mordremoth possibly either being waking around the time Primordus did, or last if even will ever wake. And Primordus is likely the smallest, all things considered, while Kralk seems to thus far be the biggest.
Garrenhoff is Krytan, I’m pretty sure. There’s no Seraph because they’re not needed – why spend personel on a town defended by elementals and seldom attacked as is when they could be more useful defending towns attacked by centaurs or bandits?
every decision he makes is right (only the ones made by the player go wrong)
Uh, no?
His decision to use the back tunnel during Forging the Pact is wrong; his decision to use the ritual at the royal tombs is wrong, but our comment about the Source of Orr from A Light in the Darkness’ vision is right. He’s not wrong often, but he’s not present often to make a wrong decision – most of the time he’s around as Pact leader he’s telling us where to go because it’s tactical and we decide how to go there.
How about you make some tactical decisions yourself once?
He does. I think you need to pay more attention during Forging the Pact and his involvement with the Pact elsewhere. He’s the one who chooses where to put Fort Trinity (even if you name it) and why; he’s the one who chooses the targets that are the Eye and Mouth of Zhaitan as well as which targets to go after for limiting Zhaitan’s minion supply. If this isn’t tactical decisions I don’t know what is.
He steals the spotlight. The personal story is supposed to be that, personal. But instead the last third is only about the pact. The player is reduced to a nameless soldier. Yes I know, he is the Commander, but we never ever command anything, only a small task-force, which however more often when not, gives us the orders.
And this is different from the rest of the personal storyline…. how? We’re always a nameless soldier. We’re always being told what to do. The only time we get to “command anything” as you put it would be when choosing the splits – like when we decide how to hunt down the Eye of Zhaitan, or how we decide how to go after the Mouth of Zhaitan, or how we decide which of the Orders’ plan to invade Cursed Shore to go with.
People claim it’s because Trahearne takes the spotlight.
However, he doesn’t. It’s just folks wanting to be the top macho person in charge. Same reason why folks hated Kormir, more or less, except that Trahearne’s less insulting than she was by the end of it. But folks fail to realize that the Marshal of the Pact isn’t a fun role. Imagine the paperwork he has to do. And while you’re off hanging with Apatia, Tonn, or dealing with the friendly fire incident, Trahearne’s doing what? Watching a place get built. That’s very fun.
Honestly, Trahearne doesn’t hold as much of a spotlight than Destiny’s Edge members during the first 20 levels of the personal story, or the Order mentors during the 30-50 levels of the personal story. Hell, he’s pretty much holding a torch while they’re holding braziers and bonfires (respectively).
I think his mechanical voice acting only greatly harms his disposition though.
@OP:
@Dustfinger: While I wouldn’t doubt that the taking of magic was in reference to the seers, I don’t think the jotun saw them as gods. The jotun’s primary quality is their pride in themselves. A whole point is made about them about how they would never worship non-jotun, which is why the jotun turning to Jormag for power to become a giant-king is so unusual and questioned.
I doubt that Melandru was on Tyria before Dwayna. It’s more likely that the legends attributing her to creating the world is due to her terraforming the land. She’s said in human history (Orrian History Scrolls aren’t so much human legend so much as human history, then again the same could be said for History of Tyria so…) to have turned Orr into a verdant land after Balthazar went and scorched it. If she did so elsewhere – which is implied – then races may have seen her do such and believe she was creating the world.
As for the Thruln, I doubt they saw the seers as gods, as they allied with them and willingly gave up their magic to forge the bloodstone
Nothing says that the seers contained magic with the consent of others.
And no, not even the fan-written summary from the GW2W article says that. The source of the information that the jotun’s magic was put into the bloodstone, by the way, is this line: “I believe that the Seers gathered up all uncorrupted magic, including that of the jotun, and put it within the original Bloodstone.” (from Randall Greystone in Arah explorable dungeon). He doesn’t say the seers worked with consent of anyone, and given how the mursaat “betrayed” the other races and nearly wiped out the seers before fleeing the world, I bet it wasn’t consensual.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
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