Guild Wars 2

Nerokis.8405:

Out of curiosity, is he ever brought up in GW2? Does he have any presence at all? That may hint at the likelihood of him playing a prominent role in the future.

Yes, but only in Ossan Quarter (in Divintiy’s Reach), by about 3 NPCs.

Find the named NPCs, such as Hoanjo Belin that drax mentioned, there as well as the tour guide, and you’ll learn all GW2 gives about Joko. Which isn’t much.

The reason he’s not mentioned – or the current state of Elona – is because it’s simply not important plot wise. I mean, Usoku is never mentioned in-game either except through an exotic dagger named after him. Don’t know who Usoku is? He’s the last known emperor of Cantha – the successor of Emperor Kisu (the emperor during GW1) – who built up the empire’s military and quelled the vassal states that were warring for over 1,500 years and then kicked out all non-human civilizations – including the tengu – and led Cantha into another era of isolationism (which it was in at least until contact was severed with Zhaitan’s rise).

Sinifair.1026:

It also went on the suggestion page, but the only comment I’ve got is that ANet doesn’t care about their lore because the playerbase don’t.

Let me start by saying whoever said this is a kittening idiot.

Sinifair.1026:

Do you guys agree or what is your take on this?

I do agree, I like the idea greatly, though I don’t think clicking should be necessary – simply expand the hover-over box would be enough IMO.

I’m also surprised this hasn’t been thought of before (as far as I know).

Like Narcemus, I would read each PoI that comes with a label.

And hell, why not do the same for zone and area names? Remember during the early betas when the loading screens for zones, instances, and personal story steps had quotation descriptions about the events of the personal story or information on the zone/instance? I wish they didn’t remove those – far more interesting than reading your map completion progress when it’s on the bloody world map.

I did keep that story step in mind, drax, however I think calling sentient mobile plants “earth spirits” is very different than having a reverence – regardless of degree – for plantlife.

Not to mention that dragon magic in of itself is just “any other kind of magic that was altered to the dragon’s liking and spreads its influence and corruption” – whereas divine seems to be eternal and makes the god very very bright (lighting wise).

Well I never really wanted to claim it was elemental lightning – I merely stated that’s the closest thing with which any dragon can be related to air/wind/sky.

Regarding the Risen and mesmerism – I think it’s just a case of it being the best befitting magic for the risen personality of using psychological warfare, rather than any propensity of either the risen pre-corruption or of Zhaitan himself (Zhaitan uses nothing which is mesmer-like, but does use necromancer-like skills so I doubt Zhaitan himself is favorable to mesmerism).

Though again, every dragon has some degree of mind manipulating magic. It’s the very core behind what their minions are: creatures/things transformed using mind alterations and elemental additions. Effectively, every single Elder Dragon is an E/Me – Zhaitan’s just /N tacked on top.

Risen are not standard undead. In fact I doubt they can be considered undead at all beyond just simply always looking like rotten and 99.99% of the time made from corpses. They are dragon minions and only answer to Zhaitan (unless given free will via the Forgotten ritual used in Arah stoyr).

So no, Joko won’t be recruiting risen. Unless he magically knows a long-forgotten-and-recerently-rediscovered Forgotten ritual. And even then, those undead think for themselves so they’ll only follow Joko as much as any living bloke would.

I wouldn’t mind it remaining permanently as a mini-game. A relocation of Moto and the box would probably be needed, but it can easily act as Rata Sum’s mini-game until (and even after) Polymock’s added.

Not just the log in music, but all of the SAB’s music.

It’s catchy. I found myself humming/whistling along within minutes.

SAB was added with the March update, it just wasn’t active until today is all.

You only need it in your inventory. When you get to the dead drops, the dialogue will trigger recognizing that you have the translator. Sadly, it isn’t like GW1’s charr decoder.

Getefix.9150:

snaff (i think his name was) developped a portable gate that you can plop anywhere and travel anywhere (i think so anyways) it was in edge of destiny

Yes, but it wasn’t really made in bulk.

Though it could be the basing of waypoint systems, lorewise. If so, then only adventurers have them – if not, then it’s a one-of-a-kind thing. And you can’t travel anywhere, but rather somewhere you’ve been before.

You seem to be confused, Ryan. The mursaat knew Spectral Agony before they fled to the Mists, and when they fled to the Mists was when the Elder Dragons last awoke – they’re now almost extinct, and the location of any survivors – if there are any – is unknown.

I don’t think the terms used for Fractals is in any way meant to be lore-wise tied to the mursaat.

And that mad asura and the raving asura don’t have any (known or implied) link to the mursaat.

Azjenco.9425:

Draygo.9473:

Azjenco.9425:

3 – The full art cinematics. These are my favorites by far. The art of this game is really what makes it so exceptional, and having a display of moving artwork that tells a part of the story is really thrilling. My only gripes are that there aren’t more of them and that we can’t rewatch the ones we’ve previously seen. Also, the release cinematic shown a few years ago that showed the basis of the Zhaitan story isn’t anywhere in the game, which is definitely disappointing.

Its in the game.

Do you mean to tell me this is in the game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2plRTzSrY8

Because I’ve most certainly never seen it anywhere in the game.

That specific cinematic isn’t in the game. However, much of the animation is used during Arah storymode with Caithe narrating it.

In regards of cinematics like that, there’s a total of 14 in the game – 5 in character creation, 4 in dungeon story mode, and the rest during the personal story.

I think the Consortium’s end-game is this:

Nothing more nothing less. They only want profit. That’s how they came out to be during The Lost Shores, and they seem to be keeping to that mentality now. They cut ties with individuals who cost them money, and they’ll risk doing illegal things if they can get away with it with minimal lose should things go awry. And just as they tried turning Fractals into an adventurer’s hotspot (guess they succeeded in that, huh?) when it was a failure for making a gate going to Southsun Cove, they’re trying to make a profit out of the refugee’s situation.

Well, one issue in the OP is that Rox may be a gladium atm, she’s trying out for the Stone Warband (I’m calling the name “Rox Cutestone” now), so I don’t think she’ll always be “free to do what she wants because she’s a gladium” – if helping give a good dent into the Molten Alliance doesn’t impress Rytlock, I don’t know what will.

As to forming a new Destiny’s Edge – why not have them join Destiny’s Edge?

Rouven.7409:

Haha, nice idea. So the next installment of the living story will feature “golems vs plants” which covers the new asura and sylvari figure.
Yes, Logan will be the link to the past.

I actually suspect it’ll deal with the Sinister Triad due to Logan, Zojja, and Caithe’s letters during the beginning of The Gathering Storm – each talking about a situation they’re stuck dealing with (“queen’s business” and “Nightmare Court” for Caithe spell directly to that, while Zojja’s is a bit more interesting).

Together, it just spells “Sinister Triad” and would be a great time to expand upon that little alliance.

CureForLiving.5360:

I was wondering where the frost was in Flame and Frost (i.e. the Molten Alliance is clearly bringing the flame but no one’s bringg the frost), but if it refers to Rox and Braham that makes more sense and I can definitely see how they could be the making of a new generation.

I hadn’t considered that…

I was thinking that in the fourth installment – or later during this installment – there will be new Svanir development, seeing how there’s a few NPC dialogues of the Molten Alliance’s actions stirring up the Sons of Svanir.

Shiren.9532:

I’m kind of hoping one of them dies. I don’t have anything against them (I’m not overly attached to Rox, but it’s early days) but not enough writers have the balls to kill of their main characters.

I think there’s enough deaths of good characters in GW2. And the novels for that matter.

If Anet keeps killing off all the interesting characters, we’ll be left with the same boring old figures or need to keep introducing new people.

I don’t think Braham and Rox will be replacing Destiny’s Edge though. Something tells me that Braham, Rox, and future Living Story main heroes will be the focus for non-dragon threats, while Destiny’s Edge focuses on dragon threats.

Folks have brought this up in the lore forum when part 2 came out and the Consortium first showed interest.

However, I just can’t see it. The Consortium is a business, but they wouldn’t do something to jeopardize themselves – and forming the Molten Alliance is doing just that. They’re just taking advantage of the situation to bring in profit (but not out of kindness), as far as I can see.

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I like the cutscenes. However, I do have a few suggestions:

1. My character does not participate in the cutscenes, and instead only watches passively. Suddenly, I feel as if my character has been rendered mute.

2. The character animations in the dialogue cutscenes are beautiful, and even if the same animations are used in the more “dynamic” cutscenes, they are barely noticeable. This is a shame.

3. All those animations and lines of voice-over seem wasted if they are not replayable once the event ends. (It has been stated that replayability will end once Flame & Frost ends.) This double goes for the personal story cutscenes.
Even if it is not feasible to replay the personal story instances, would it be possible to at least replay the dialogue cutscenes? For example, by adding a replay button in the personal story log on the Hero Screen.

4. For that matter, would it be possible to create a similar story log for the Living Story entries? (Including a way to replay the cutscenes.)

I just want to second all of this, and add in a fifth point:

5. All the wibbly-wobbly-ness of the camera can be kind of disorienting. The Personal Story had some short cinematics and I found that they were trying to be too fast-paced which left them lacking (that and how some cinematics had text underneath for dialogue, while others didn’t, and some had odd timings – I’d love it if the team goes and improves the existing cinematics). We don’t need a constantly moving/rotating camera when it’s two characters talking – GW1 often had still or just slowly moving cameras, and this is lacking in GW2 which is the second biggest issue for me (the first being Jornophelanthas’s point 3).

Also, Point 2 can be solved simply by being more zoomed in on the talking individual (as opposed to the current constantly-moving-around-all-involved-figures angles).

And before people take my post as a negative view, I want to iterate that I love the heavier usage of this cinematic style. I just think they still could use improvements.

MithranArkanere.8957:

Oh, and when characters talk while walking during and between battles, THEY MOVE THEIR MOUTHS unlike the personal story, in which they seem to be telepathically talking to you like in old games with no mouth animations like Neverwinter Nights.
How awesome is that?

This was actually a feature added throughout the game in this content update. From the update notes:

Lip-flap has been enabled for all voiced lines on Players and NPCs in world.

This also occurs to non-cinematic speaking in the open world, as well as the personal story instances and even dungeon instance. Any spoken dialogue now has “lip-flap.”

Now if only they turn that lip-flap to having the movement be on par to the two-person dialogue cinematics rather than GW1-style lip-flap (that is, the jaw just going up and down).

And now if only they can improve on the non-playable races’ lip-flap too, since many of them hardly look like their jaws are moving when they talk (I’m looking at you, tengu and dredge! And the hylek are just as bad with those huge flabby looking flesh remaining still as it goes up and down).

draxynnic.3719:

Of course, tactically speaking having them in one of the above cities to reinforce the defences is probably a better plan, but Hoelbrak at least already has a refugee population, so it’s possible that the reason they’re not doing that is because they’re already near capacity, and they want to ensure that the refugees that are staying are the ones that will be most useful in a fight.

There are NPCs (Eir in the one instance with Braham, though it’s hard to catch, and both refugee coordinators at the camps) that are stating that both Hoelbrak and Black Citadel are at their capacity and are having food and shelter problems – but refugees keep coming in.

That’s why they began sending some off to Lion’s Arch. Where the Consortium then made their “we’ll let you stay in Southsun Cove!” offer.

The Modniir, Tamini, and Harathi are less plant and more ground.

Barren earth is still earth.

Only the Velderunners have shown reverence for plantlife.

Well luckily, most of the “leveling content” that you called backstory is just re-occurable events. One can view that giant event, for example, as a case of Nageling constantly attacked by giants, rather than there was once a giant who attacked.

It’s really only the level 60+ areas that are more “these things (mostly) happened at one time period” – and of that, the non-Orr zones have things which likely occur later. It’s only mention of specific killed-in-the-future NPCs that really break things (like non-Risen talking about how Zhaitan’s still a threat, or Flame Legion praising Gaheron – well, they kind of still do in F&F but it’s not exactly clear).

Most events are set up so that they can occur at any timeframe, even though there’s a specific ordering to the zones’ timeline.

Gregorius.1024:

They can do like they did with War in Kryta and Winds of Change. If your character has beaten the game, you can go to an NPC and they will change the maps to reflect the progression. You can always opt to change them back. This way new players can start from scratch, while player who want to enjoy new content can do so

Actually, they can’t. Well, they can do what you’re thinking of, but it wouldn’t be the same as WiK/WoC.

Guild Wars had instanced areas, while this is persistent areas. That’s what allowed Anet to do WiK and WoC changes – ever notice how the outposts remained unchanged aside from a few new NPCs? The reason they didn’t change the outposts (much) is why they won’t do this to GW2 – the GW1 outposts are persistent, just as all zones in GW2 are. Besides, doing this in GW2 would split the playerbase.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

Also, there is quite a bit of faith involved in taking in the quantum collective of all personal stories as the canon when you personally never meet even one of your other counterparts, the pieces don’t fit so neatly in place (granted, I have a ways to go before I can decide anything).

Well, in Orr you clearly see individuals who you would have met before and if you had done the storyline they’re involved in, wouldn’t have survived without you – Deborah, for example (dead sister storyline), reappears in Orr. These individuals show that their plot occurs irregardless of whether your current PC went and experienced the storyline.

Whether or not the adventurers live long enough or become grand enough to become a Pact Commander is another story, and not entirely likely. For example, if you’re a sylvari – despite the other storylines clearly happening, you’re still the “only one other than Caithe” to recieve the Wyld Hunt to kill Zhaitan.

That’s why I say there’s at most 5 Commanders, while there were 15 heroes/adventurers that did big deeds (3 per race) but despite those 15, only at most 1 per race would be the “special one” – who I personally consider to be liked by the Destiny’s Edge mentor and thus chosen to deal with the orders in the level 20-30 plot (aka I say there’s only one Advocate of the Crown for human heroes). And among those 5, I may be inclined to say that only 3 that became prominent among the orders – one per order (with their mentors being Forgal, Tybalt, and Sieran). Thus there’s 3 exceptional individuals who’re a part of one order but respected by all three, who became Commanders of the Pact (answering to Trahearne instead of their order’s liaison) – perhaps a 4th being “the best of the best” of them being the second-in-command.

But that’s all just personal preference for how to look at the personal story, just like how I prefer that for GW1, there’s 3 “big nameless heroes” – one per campaign, and all three (or just the Proph one) helped out with Eye of the North.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

I wish I could switch out my XP bar with a time-line that fills in the relevant spots as I progress. ¬_¬

I’d love a nice little timeline for when certain events, story steps, and so forth take place…

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If by “Main World content” you refer to Halloween, The Lost Shores, and Wintersday – then yes.

I was more referring to the heart events, actually, but then there are problems with that too now that I think of it.

All hearts occur prior to Zhaitan’s defeat.

Basically you can think of it like this:

In the long run, you basically get this set up for the timeline’s order of events:

1. Tutorials
2. Queensdale, Wayfarer Foothills, Plains of Ashford, Metrica Province, Caledon Forest, level 1-10 and first half of level 10-20 personal story
3. Kessex Hills, Diessa Plateau, Brisban Wildlands, Snowden Drifts, second half of level 10-20 and first half of level 20-30 storylines
4. low level Gendarran Fields, low level Lornar’s Pass, latter half of lvl 20-30 storylines
5. Ascalonian Catacombs, high level Gendarran Fields, high level Lornar’s Pass, Fields of Ruin, and level 30-40 storylines
6. Caudecus’ Manor, Blazeridge Steppes, Harathi Hinterlands, Dredgehaunt Cliffs, Bloodtide Coast, racial sympathy (lvl 40-48) storylines
7. Twilight Arbor, Sparkfly Fen, Timberline Falls, Iron Marches, Claw® Island storyline (level 50-60)
8. Sorrow’s Furnace, Mount Maelstrom, Fireheart Rise, fear personal story (level 60-70)
9. Citadel of Flames, low level Frostgorge Sound, Straits of Devastatio; personal story taking place in Straits of Devastation areas (from Battle of Fort Trinity to What the Eye Beholds)
10. Honor of the Waves
11. Crucible of Eternity, high level Frostgorge Sound, Malchor’s Leap, personal story in Malchor’s Leap (from fighting Mouth of Zhaitan to middle of the invasion plan into Cursed Shore)
12. Cursed Shore, remainder of personal story
13. Arah story
14. Arah explorable
15. Halloween content
16. The Lost Shores content
17. Wintersday content
18. Flame and Frost content

It’d be easier to show with a flowchart or something, I suppose. But basically use the level to associate when what happens, and once you get to the zones/story arcs with level 80 content, look at the last few bits above.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

When Rytlock and Eir run through the Ascalon Catacombs the Plains of Ashford would no longer be haunted. Perhaps those are level based too, but this makes it nigh impossible to keep track of since I hit 80 after having explored only a fraction of the world and I admit to not paying too close attention to that number in the bottom left corner of the screen at this point.

Given how there are ghosts in post level 30 areas, Rytlock and Eir’s little crusade doesn’t affect the ghosts’ presence. It’s just that the Catacombs had a momentary time of having fewer ghosts.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

As for PC commanders, I don’t suppose there would be one for every choice of NPC and race allegiances possible in the Personal Story too? Some of these would have to be mutually exclusive, I would imagine.

If there were a commander for every personal storyline possible combination, we’d be getting hundreds if not thousands of commanders (15×15×5x3x5×3 basically (each number representing maximum amount of storylines per story chapter in the personal story excluding the one-step-splits and Claw Island’s arch since that’s just differs on orders))).

Without doing a storyline more than once, it’d be 15.

(stupid character limit)

I don’t really care about saving face though. If I’m wrong then I’m wrong and it’s as simple as that. However, there’s no reason for me to even try to save face. But this has digressed long enough.

Eh, if you ask me, all your doing is now by exemplifying minor word choice that overall doesn’t mean what you’re now making it out to be (and what you’ve been doing since you brought up that “other side” in a hand-wave manner, actually) just covering your own kitten when you realize you’re terribly off and completely ignore your original points. At least that’s how it seems to me, and your constant refusal to return to your points while focus on how I argue rather than what I argue (and completely wrong at that with your constant false claims of tangents) only makes me think that more.

But I digress, as if this continues it’s just going to be a circle.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

So the timeline looks like:

1st: Dungeons / Personal Story, concurrent with level of content
2nd: Main World content, After Zhaitan
3rd: Living Story = Present

If by “Main World content” you refer to Halloween, The Lost Shores, and Wintersday – then yes.

The only thing other than the things added in content updates which takes place post-Zhaitan would be Arah explorable.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

I’m not sure about every permutation of the Personal Story existing as separate, canonical commanders as that would mean a considerable amount of overlap and Trahearne gaining several second-in-command figures.

There’d only be one second-in-command figure, but several Commanders.

Commander != Second-in-command

BunnytheSwordsman.4173:

Actually, the represenatives of each order are also commanders, if I recall. I forget their names, but the Asura that is in the Vigil is also a commander. We’re all like advisors and it’s good to have multiple advisors.

I don’t think Warmaster Efut, Preceptor Doern, and Magister (?) Wynnet were ever called commanders. As far as I know, they were just liaisons to the three Orders. They kept their Orders’ rankings and were just the go-betweens between the Pact and the Orders’ troops.

I see you continue to just meander about how I debate rather than answering the points themselves. And though you didn’t answer my previous question, I’ll humor you a bit more.

Your “both sides” (as far as I can tell):

1. “What I am saying is that given the information, it absolutly is possible that melandru existed on tyria before bringing humanity.”
2. “As well as being possible that she didn’t.”

This in the context of “the charr’s legend of Melandru creating the world predates humanity on the world.”

Other sides that I mentioned:

1. The legend doesn’t predate humanity on the world.
2. The legend doesn’t predate humanity on the continent.

Other sides that I did not mention:

1. The legend was changed over time, but the original predates Melandru’s existence on the world.

There’s more if I bother wracking my brain, but my point is that there’s more possibilities than simply “the legend’s older than humans” and “the legend’s not older than humans” – though it would be more clear if I said that there’s more specific situations than your “both sides” where you didn’t consider so many other possibilities.

So – I answered your query, which I was able to since you referred to a specific old post. Since I did t his, rather than arguing about my methodology, how about you actually keep to your own point.

Where the hell does the jotun come into this? Your original purpose of bringing up this legend – before you went off topic – was in argument that the jotun viewed her as a god during the Bloodstone’s creation’s time.

What exactly was your point in this seemingly senseless debate? And yes, by the way, you were arguing. The entire bloody time.

I’m just going to say “what drax said” since that’s pretty much verbatim what I would have posted.

(note: responding as I’m reading through your post)
The Branded have skills that are similar to mesmer attacks, true, though elementalist attacks as well. However, just as there are icebrood kodan who wield torches, I don’t think their attacks are solely from Kralkatorrik’s domain – but rather from what they once were, just geared towards Kralkatorrik’s domain of purpleness (just as the Risen use green water attacks instead of standard blue).

Given how Zhaitan’s strongest minions gear towards mesmerism alongside necromancy and elementalism, I’m guessing that the Elder Dragons overall just enjoy mindscrew magics – after all, every single dragon does twist the mind of those they corrupt – and they just add other fields of general magical directions (element magic, death magic, etc.) based on their own preference.

Primordus is the only active dragon that hasn’t shown mesmer-like abilities (directly or indirectly), but that’s probably due to how he doesn’t corrupt living beings (at the moment).

Currently it’s like this:

Personal story, original open world events, and the dungeon story all occurred parallel based on level.

When the personal storyline splits, all paths are done but they’re less effective because you, the big hero, isn’t present (see, for example, human street rat story split – if you go save Quin, Logan still goes to prevent the poisoning but doesn’t make it in time to prevent all of the poisoning; however if you go prevent the poisoning, Quin’s still targeted and is killed because you didn’t go protect him).

Claw Island is the confusing part in this – as is Forging the Pact but less so. Since the personal storyline acts as if there’s only one Commander, all the dialogue is about you and ignores mention of the other possibilities for those two scenarios. However, with this most recent patch in the living story we now got confirmation that there’s multiple Commanders of the Pact (according to Smodur calling the PC a Pact Commander).

So with those cases – the whole Claw Island arc – I take it as there being at least 3 individuals present at once, one per order and one per fear, and that Tybalt, Forgal, and Seiran all together went to hold back the Risen forces (unlike what Bunny said, there’d only be 3 individuals from each Order besides the soon-to-be Commander(s) so they’re not “working together”; furthermore, the three Orders do get together rather easily, and we could probably assume all three orders’ HQs get attacked so I would say that there are individuals who were present in Claw Island each). After all, no matter how kitten the mentors were, I can’t see them holding a dragon champion back all alone.

Overall, I’m willing to say there’s at least 3 PC Commanders (one per order), but 15 “big heroes” (3 per race) that made an impact on the world, but who’s what is left unknown for the whole personal story scenario, and only you yourself is the best.

New content occurs post-Zhaitan’s defeat, in order of its release I would presume, and the Living Story is the most recent in the order of Events. In a way, the “living story” began with Halloween, but only unofficially, and the rebuilding of the lion statue is just you witnessing it.

Mechanically, the four stories (Personal, Dungeon, World, and Living) can be mixmatched in experience, but timeline wise, personal, world, and dungeon happen simultaneously prior to Living (with exception of Fractals and Southsun Cove stories which occurs during the unofficial living – simultaneously with The Lost Shores) – at least until we get more of the three former story types (like we did during The Lost Shores).

Lokheit.7943:

Also, in that temple there is a guy (I think from the Priory) that says he can feel that Lyssa is just not there, but not death, and it’s said that he was blessed by Lyssa.

She doesn’t mention not feeling. She just says that Lyssa’s simply “not there” but “not dead” and that’s why she’s, well, not there – though there’s really no way for her to back her statement up.

You shouldn’t blame me for a “tangent” since if you actually read, you’d see I didn’t change the subject from what is already off-topic (and was, in fact, going back on topic). I responded to you and then you didn’t respond and the subject went back on topic, yet you derail once more with these same posts.

And you still don’t answer my question from this post – not “first page, fifth post up.”

And as I said, I cannot remember the other options because I can’t even figure out what your “both sides” are anymore – I feel if I try to point out the sides of a stance I no longer see I’ll just get told “you’re wrong” because I don’t think you ever had such a solid “both sides” but merely a conceptual thing.

Anyways, this is getting no where since you refuse to response to my inquiry about what your “both sides” are, so I won’t respond to you until you answer that. I’m tired of wasting my time.

The Elder Dragons are often referred to as various storms – Kralkatorrik is both called a hurricane and a sandstorm, which is just as air-related as a blizzard. I don’t see how, effectively, strong mesmerism is related to “whispers in the wind” or the like.

And I don’t think it’s ever said Jormag fuels distrust – though I may be wrong on that.

Zojja’s rival? You refer to Kudu, I presume? He is killed in Crucible of Eternity.

I don’t think that the Maguuma centaurs were ever said to be protecting what they found to be sacred – though I could be wrong on this. The closest I can think of would be the monks being called “Maguuma Protectors” – though that could simply mean they protected their herd/pride/tribe/whatever-the-term-is.

But it is correct to say that the centaurs have a heavy reverence for the earth (not necessarily the world in general, but the element of earth as well as plantlife). It should be noted that Rock Dogs, mechanically, register as elementals iirc, as do War Beasts – both are earth elementals of sorts, the latter outright in lore though I’m unsure of the former.

As to the hand thing – well, the technical name of those “hands” is simply “Greater Earth Elemental” though they’re also called the “Hands of Ulgoth” – in other words, those hands are the full elemental. And the lore around greater elementals is that they’re very hard to control, and usually only naturally forming. In the entirity of the game we only see two greater earth, ice, and fire elements (earth being in human tutorial and Modniir Gorge; ice being in The Frozen Maw meta and in Snowblind Fractal; fire being in Thaumanova Reactor and in a personal story step occurring within Maelstrom’s Bile) – and in these cases, only the earth and ice are controlled, and the earth only by a high sage and Ulgoth (so very powerful elementalists).

Kind of interesting we never see a Greater Air Elemental.

Lutinz.6915:

I think one of the keys to exactly what the Molten Alliance is trying to do is what they are doing with the prisoners, which hopefully we will learn soon.

The dredge have an old habit of using live target practice for their weapon testing. And the Flame Legion, as mentioned, do use living sacrifices to make Embers and Charr Effigies.

Lutinz.6915:

I do suspect that the Molten Alliance are proxies to another group or person. There alliance is pretty unnatural and sounds like it has some opposition within its own ranks. The two groups have also intergrated suprisingly quickly. There is an endgame here that I dont think we have seen yet and I suspect that it might not be what the Molten Alliance actually expects it to be.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/living-story-evolution/

“Aside from the Living Story main characters, we’ll also be surprising you with interesting villains, one of whom will become your personal nemesis. "

My guess is whoever this is will be the one pulling the two groups’ string.

Erukk.1408:

Do we know any organizations, groups, or entities that could pull off an manipulation of this scale off? Getting the Dredge to attack the Norn, or the FL to attack the Charr, is one thing, but getting them to do it together, at the same time, would take a big outside influence.

1. Future personal nemesis that was mentioned to be introduced.
2. Lazarus the Dire
3. Inquest (they’re already in the Sinister Triad and have had influence with the dredge before)
4. White Mantle leader (they seem to be behind a lot of mayhem in GW2 – they’re backing the bandits, part of the Sinister Triad, and allied with the centaurs who hate humans and norn) – if it’s not Lazarus leading them behind the scenes.

Erukk.1408:

Maybe sprinkle a few clues for us lore nerds, but save the actually identity for later, after further use.

I think the one behind it all will be revealed – or at least heavily hinted upon – in the fourth installment.

Again, money’s on the “easily recognizable” “personal nemesis” that got mentioned.

digiowl.9620:

As for worshiping, nah. But it could be that the drege picked up some insights from a certain Inquest project regarding the harnessing of dragon magical energy…

When I first read the dead drop about a large machine being built and powered by FL magic, I was thinking Iron Forgeman 3.0 – and the 2.0 version, made by Kudu, was powered by draconic energies. But then I realized what "kom-pew-something " was likely referring to.

draxynnic.3719:

[…]

I don’t think the PC’s joining in on the fighting is a credible source for who the Pact picks fights with. Nor do I think that Smodur accepting a Commander’s assistance is either.

As I said, their involvement with Citadel of Flames is – and this sadly seems to be given only to charr characters in one of those occasional letters from Rytlock in the personal storyline progression – due to the Pact getting their ears on a rumor that the Flame Legion have a powerful weapon which they (the Pact) hope to procure and use against the Elder Dragons. What said weapon is, is never explained however.

And I still would not say “because the three Orders which make the bulk of the Pact are involved, it means that the Pact is involved” either – take note that while the three Orders began the Pact, the Pact is 1) led by an individual not of the three Orders, and 2) having been recruiting non-Order soldiers, be they sylvari Wardens, refugees offput by the dragons, the High Legions’ aid, or former Seraph.

I think it’s rather foolish to try associating the Elder Dragons with either the professions’ or the four schools’ field/effects of magic – seeing how they predate all of it, and effectively twist magic into their own kind of it, I doubt they’d be bound by such situations.

Purple just seems to be Kralkatorrik’s theme, rather than it being tied to mesmers/chaos magic (and certainly Denial). And Jeff Grubb explained this color relation as simply being “the color of evil” – and in fact, there are parts of Orrian corruption that glows purple. Just like Jormag’s color seems to be light blue. So I wouldn’t put too much thought into colors.

It’s not so much that Grenth’s followers have rejected him because he’s weaker, but rather they say that the Mists is full of lies (this comes specifically from the keeper of the Cathedral of Silence who is said to have had his soul “stolen” from Grenth by Zhaitan) and that Zhaitan grants immortality. In other words, they’re doing a complete 180 on Grenth’s teachings which preaches the concept of mortality.

The difference between norn and Scandinavian tends to be that the norn take their surnames from the more famous parent (though by norn tradition, marriage only occurs between two of equal status’ – though Eir certainly has gained lots of street cred since 17 years ago) until they earn their own surname – based off of NPC dialogue in Hoelbrak (specifically a certain “Wolfsdottir” NPC).

I like to believe there’s a small chance that the constant use of only mentioning Lyssa as having been killed is more than mere psychological warfare (why only Lyssa? Why are Balthazar, Dwayna, Grenth, and Melandru never said to be dead/devoured?) – also no, Lyssa’s not on Earth, but she’s not on Tyria either, however at least one Elder Dragon has made influence into the Mists so why not others when Zhaitan’s forces occupy the area around the Door of Komalie which leads to one of the Six Gods’ realms?

Rizzy.8293:

Look at Dhuum, he was a god, you compare his size to the size of the dragon’s lieutenant, hes still a small fry, compared to a full grown dragon like Zhaitan, Gods are insignificant specks compared to dragons and don’t go saying gods have magic powers and all that, dragons do too, Zhaitan rose a freaking sunken nation out of the water and had hordes of undead minions.

Kralkatrorik found glint’s one grain of sand in the countless of other grains of sand in the crystal desert and killed her.

Dhuum is a fallen god, so his size isn’t really worthy of comparison usage. Better to use Abaddon, who was much bigger than Dhuum.

Also, Glint wasn’t in a single grain of sand, but rather an illusionary magic – the “single grain of sand” legend was to detract folks from realizing the real situation, which was simply that only those who realize it’s hidden by illusionary magic could find Glint’s sanctuary.

@Thomas: You seem to have misunderstood me. I was stating that the Scepter of Orr held no influence on the undead (or their making), and that neither did Zhaitan have any connection to the Cataclysm at all (I know very well that it was caused by the Lost Scrolls, tyvm) given all our knowledge.

And I don’t act like I know every single thing about GW’s lore. Nor have I ever claimed or believed I do. But I will admit that when you insulted me stating I was wrong with a rather rude attitude – or at least rude word choice – when it was you who was wrong. Also, Primordus was pertaining to your response to my post, since you used him for your argument that Elder Dragons produce/radiate magic.

Kralkatorrik – through the heavy use of lightning – shows more relation to air than Jormag’s ice does. However, I don’t think any of the six can be classified as air – Jormag’s about snow and ice, which is all frozen water, and not about cold wind; while the lightning is overall a show of how heavy magical concentrations seem to take form (alongside the heavy use of lightning with Kralkatorrik, there’s also lightning in heavily corrupted areas in Drakkar Spurs and Arah – furthermore, iirc, crackling static is used as a description for powerful magic in the novels).

Problem is that there are still seasons and that winter is said to be colder, with spring warmer. Even in Cantha where we see no snow (magical or otherwise) outside of the mountains.

It’s been five days since I made that post, after the subject had been changed, hence why I called it backtracking.

And I haven’t gone on any tangents.

I also notice how you still haven’t answer my question from five days ago.

But whatever, clearly you have no intention of continuing the discussion and would rather just blame it all on “my” so called “tangents.”

Plus, teleporting physical, solid, matter is different than sending electricity that captured and transmits sound wavelengths.

Though short-distance communications is possible, as is short-distance video output/input, but not long distance as far as we know.

Where did the dredge consider Lion’s Arch an enemy? I must have missed that.

But they did gain the Order of Whispers and Vigil’s attention.

Furthermore, not by extension the Pact. As shown by Smodur (if you’re already a Commander, you can access the off-limits quorum) who says to you “shouldn’t you be fighting dragons” – the reason why CoF was assaulted by the Pact was because, according to Rytlock, there was a weapon believed to be useful against the Elder Dragons. The Pact’s sole interest is fighting the Elder Dragons, or finding means to fight the Elder Dragons. So the orders’ enemies != the Pact’s enemies.

After its initiation, the Pact seems to have become its own organization that’s just manned by folks who are also in the Priory, Whispers, or Vigil.

The Vigil, Priory, and Whispers who are working on the Molten Alliance issue aren’t part of the Pact.

Way to backtrack. So much time passed that my line of thought has completely been forgotten. So without wasting a bunch of time re-reading, again, all those posts I don’t remember.

However, if you read the previous post before the one you quoted, I’m not even sure what your “both sides” are. Hell, I don’t think there was ever an opposing “side” you mentioned.

Funny how you constantly question me, but never explain yourself.

I’ve been speculating that the Flame Legion were drawing power from – but not worshiping – Primordus since the 2009 trailer. And my beliefs have only been redoubled since release, and even now. In fact, trying to obtain power from Primordus/destroyers is the biggest reason I can think of for the Molten Alliance – since the dredge (or some of them) seemingly want to control destroyers.

However, I don’t think the stone dwarves are related to this. The dredge have repeatedly stated that Ogden is the last living dwarf – so whether or not they’re right, that’s what they believe. And I cannot see the stone dwarves doing an about face to head towards the surface and fight someone who’s trying to utilize their main target, when said someone isn’t actively after the dwarves. With how single-minded the dwarves have become, it seems more likely that they’ll just push harder against Primordus should they learn of someone utilizing the dragon’s power.

However, all this said, I’d like to point out a few things:
1) The destroyers are indeed hostile to dredge and the dredge view them as both a threat and a tool.
2) Primordus doesn’t seem caring for living servants. Jormag’s fully unique in this. So I can’t see Primordus proactively giving the Molten Alliance power.
3) The dragons are enemies, so the Svanir would naturally be enemies to the Molten Alliance should the MA be powered by Primordus – but Primordus wouldn’t go sending the MA to face Svanir. Furthermore, as I pointed out in the OP, the Svanir are already getting stirred up.
4) I disagree with not knowing the “actual motivations” of the Elder Dragons – the actions and sayings of their minions give us a pretty good understanding. They seem first and foremost interested in two things: 1) Eating, 2) Spreading their corruption. Not so much “Wreck It, Dragon” as much as “I’ll make everything mine.” – From there, it differs on each dragon, where they each seem to hold a preference in how to corrupt, what to corrupt, and why corrupt it. But going into that is all off-topic and there are other, albeit old, threads for such.

Thomas.5078:

Sorry to to tell you this, but in guildwars 1 vekk clearly states the reason their central transfer chamber is where it is, if for the mere fact that what they believed was a statue was bleeding raw magic. This statue is confirmed to be primordious. In Arah exploitable it is learned the gods unknownly infused the blood stones with some of zhaitans power since Arah was build Ontop of him. Don’t bold something before confirming it lol.

Sorry to tell you this but play the bloody storyline – and pay attention.

Elder Dragons eat magic. Fact.
Primordus – and Primordus alone as far as we know – radiated magic while hibernating.
The Six Gods, unknowingly, drew power from Zhaitan the same way Svanir drew power from Drakkar – it was not the Elder Dragon/champion radiating magic.
Arah was built atop of the Artesian Waters which is powerful magic in of itself – it’s also what drew the Six Gods to the world. Zhaitan’s presence under Arah was coincidence.

Some personal storyline missions you may find helpful: What the Eye Beholds and Cathedral of Silence – the former states Zhaitan consumes magic, the latter states that the Six Gods were drawn to the Artesian Waters because of it is highly magical, it is the source of Orr’s natural magic and water (however, this is mentioned in NPC dialogue boxes so it’s not only often missed, but isn’t on GW2W. Furthermore Honor of the Waves explorable has Jormag’s minions going after kodan magical artifacts.

So I must say to you “Don’t bold something before confirming it. lol” Cuz I did kittening confirm it.

Thomas.5078:

Destroyers aren’t corruption he shapes his minions that’s why.

All Elder Dragon magic corrupts. Primordus is corrupting the land and fire, turning it into living breathing creatures. ALL ELDER DRAGONS CORRUPT – it’s just how they choose to corrupt that differs.

Thomas.5078:

we have no idea if in gw1 zhaitan may have played a role in the undead rising after Orr was sundered during the cataclysm…

Except that Jeff Grubb explicitly told us that the Cataclysm had no effect on Zhaitan whatsoever. Furthermore, Orr does not have a history of undead – if it really was Zhaitan’s influence creating undead during the Cataclysm then 1) it would have affected him in some means or 2) undead would be a long standing natural occurrence in Orr. Furthermore, the GW1 Orrian undead do not have the Risen mentality, which is present in dragon minions irregardless of the Elder Dragon’s awake status.

Thomas.5078:

or it could of just been the scepter orrs power.

No, it wasn’t. Know how I know? It doesn’t make undead – just controls spirits (and in turn Titans and, possibly, undead) – if that.

The best we know of the mursaat/seer war is that “the mursaat betrayed the other races before fleeing the world” – and they only returned from the Mists “to be known as the Unseen Ones” so the war had to be that “betrayal.” And if it’s a betrayal, the mursaat were the ones in the wrong (most likely).

Though we’re also told in Prophecies, iirc, that the seers fell because they didn’t have a defense to Spectral Agony. That would mean the mursaat caused so much death directly that it left them too wounded to continue on as a civilization.