Funny you call them forgettable yet they are far more used than the tomes were.
But a shroud/kit like approach would be acceptable and definitely preferable to the underwhelming and abysmal elite forms we have at the moment.
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As for Lich/Plague, you can make them useful without butchering the transform. That’s what I was suggesting so everyone would be happy. You suggest removing transform altogether and that will not make everyone happy.
Apart from those people that dislike forms to begin with. They wouldn’t be happy. And its not the first time Anet has removed elite forms in favour of more simplistic but useful* skills. And on a non aggressive note, what was your suggestion for Lich Form?
*Feel my wrath, yes. Signet of courage, no. But then SoC could be useful if they just reduced the passive timer from 10s to 3 or less.
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Aye I’d say it goes Wail of Doom, Unholy Feast (plus its trait equivalent) then Enfeebling Blood, in order of most deserving of a blast finisher.
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An exploit can be something players use (and abuse) which the developers did not originally intend. This is indeed an exploit, though not something Anet should punish, as it indeed is something they overlooked in the first place.
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Disclaimer: These are picks from traitlines I use. I basically ignored Death Magic because I find it to be so bad, the entire line could be deleted and I wouldn’t give even a single kitten .
1. Soul Eater – Bad elite spec trait made worse by how good the other 2 competitor traits are. Other greatsword weapon traits have 3 tiers of effects, this has 2 of which 1 is just awful. Even the beta version was more desirable (niche life steal build with blood magic).
2. Fear of Death – Traits that have effects on down are just bad design to begin with. Then HoT powercreep has killed fear completely.
3. Spiteful Renewal – What even is this?!
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maybe we should get back the god ol’deathly chill, where chilling was the source of damage
Only to have it constantly overridden by other necros running Deathly Chill.
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How about unbinding weapons and utilities from Elite specs? Keep it so you need the expac to use said weapons but allow them to be used without having to use said Elite spec.
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there is this thing called Effect LOD in options menu
And how does that have any bearing on changing Lich form and plague?
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well of darkness and signet of vampirism.
well is just inferior to nightfall in every way, and i see no point running it even if nightfall didn’t exist.
Signet of vampirism is a tiny heal on a far too long cooldown and the passive effect has an ICD, rendering it worthless in PvE and too low for PvP.
What’s up with the looks/theme argument people suddenly came up with? skills should be good and worth using. Noone said they should look worse for that purpose.
I suggested removing necro elite forms (like they did with Guardian Tomes) in favour of something more useful, but more “Feel my wrath” useful than Signet of courage. Sublimatio took this to mean making them look kitten in favour of being useful, which as I said in one of my previous comments wouldn’t be the case. Just look up Reaper of Grenth human racial elite to see what I’d have the new plague to look like.
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I would say most of the playerbase actually cares the most about visual of the skills rather than function not to mention this is a main selling point of every mmorpg and in the game industry altogether, I’ve had friends disappointed about skill animation reduction, even to the point of not caring about the game anymore and leaving. I’ve been a necro main since beta tests even when greatsword wasn’t a thing and dagger hit only 1 target at once or when minions wouldn’t attack and I’m a hardcore pve player to this day. I wouldn’t be playing it if it wasn’t for the dark theme and animations.
If you’ve ever wondered why they have done so many changes to visual culling, its because a lot of the playerbase wanted there to be less visual clutter. As a pve player you’re basically ignoring the other 2 game modes, especially WvW (which is the biggest opposition to overly animated skills). Sure people care about visuals. But as I said before, people care more about the practicality of the skill. Take Guardian Tomes for example.They are the ultimate in visuals over practicality, and Anet got rid of them.
And if we’re gonna play the “I’ve more experienced” game, I was on Alpha.
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Exploit or not, its the last you will see of it. Wish it good luck in the afterlife.
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Likewise I could say, would anyone want to use a skill that is the most attractive looking and visually stimulating, even if it did absolutely nothing. The answer is no, unless they were just messing around in content that really didn’t matter – ahem pve open world.
As for replacing the form effects, I never said to make them bland. Hell in a post I made a while back I suggested using the Reaper of Grenth animation for the new Plague elite. You can make awesome looking non form skills that also have near universal usage. And that’s what I aim for.
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well that is pretty selfish to say, what about other people who wont get to have the initial charm and people who didn’t lose it? i gave ideas to make these skills meaningful without turning them into another forgettable key you push
Forms have always been skills that disable your utilities, have massive cooldowns and generally are less effective than your basic attacks. I’d be up for the idea of revamping them to allow for utility use but in the sake of simplicity and resources, on Anet’s part, it would be better just to replace them altogether with something more useful.
At the end of the day, people that like skills just for their looks are a minority to the people that like skills for their actual usefulness. And as we have seen from both necro forms, they are niche at best and (in Lich Form’s case) have only had real use in areas they could be abused.
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Given it’s on a 6 second cooldown, it’s easy to argue that it’s overloaded already. 600 range dash, AoE Blind, decent damage, and projectile blocking.
At most, all I would change is that you don’t stop moving on the very first hit on your target, instead continuing to move if they are no longer getting hit.
Use without target and you will not stop at the First hit
He means that if you hit the target at first, but say they use a shadow step, you will continue to pursue them after the initial hit.
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i want to be able to transform because it’s something cool, i care about visual stimulation
When I first started playing, I would have agreed. But now, once that initial charm has worn off, we’re left with two niche skills. Lich form could be transformed into an aoe damage buff for allies as much needed party support.
As for the use of plague in spvp, wouldn’t you prefer a skill that granted you tankiness but also allowed you to actually attack with your basic weapon skills and utilities?
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How anyone can find something lacking in this skill is beyond me.
ACTUALLY I can, the pathing sucks.
I love this skill to bits in its current iteration and I don’t think it needs to break immob. BUT THE PATHING SUCKS.
That’s a game mechanic problem though, not the problem of the skill. Other movement skills can have similar issues, like Warrior Savage Leap completely jumping past the foe if you are in a higher position than them. And shadowstep skills failing because of a tiny bit of terrain in the way.
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Elite – plague (make the 3 different plagues be active at all times + add 5 skills to the plague, let the player only use one that will form the plague into another level, like adding a stealth for the duration that wont disappear unless revealed. other skills could be whirling for the duration, pulsing buffs, pulsing hard cc etc)
Or better yet just remove plague form (and lich form) and replace with 2 new non form elite skills.
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And I reassert my previous statement: group support spec would be a nice change of path for selfish necro. I hope it comes some time, and I hope it is based in debuffs instead of HoT’s group buffs meta.
Orders! ORDERS! ORRRRRRRRRRDERS!
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Yes for Life from death (though I would never run it because I have a life stealing fetish -
Vampiric Aura mmmmm).
What numbers would you suggest for the Transfusion buff?
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For Pve just swap out dagger/x for staff. For the most part you will be camping greatsword (its the highest dps for power) and then use staff for tagging lots of foes for more loot.
For WvW again swap out axe/x for greatsword. Mainly camp staff but use greatsword to finish off downed foes.
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It might not be the worst but…
Flesh golem : need to learn how to swim. All gamemode that contain water pond. Losing an elite summon because we just stepped into water is silly and it’s even more silly since it’s almost the only minion that doesn’t work underwater. I can understand flesh wurm not working but flesh golem, there is no reason.
I’ve always wanted a Blood Shark as the underwater version of Flesh Golem. They should have made this change when they redid the ranger spirits, giving them underwater dolphin and whale skins. However since no one really cares about underwater anymore, its almost definitely not going to happen.
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- Just give it a flat swiftness boon. Pulsing is really dumb mechanic and interrupts the flow of combat
It originally did for the first pulse only. I prefer it now, mainly for use in wvw zergs as its a nice way to grant the entire zerg swiftness without anyone having to equip specific skills to gain it (if you’re not running staff in a zerg, you are doing it wrong).
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Remove immobilize would be nice but being immune to cc might be a bit much. It already blocks projectiles, and we have access to stability in Reaper Shroud if you are worried about cc.
The suggestion was really clear, not sure why you brought up the other stuff about cc and stab?
Pretty simple really, knockdown is a cc. Most of the time when Anet wants to implement a skill that, as you suggest, is immune to knockdown or whatever, they attach stability to the skill. This then prevents the skill from being interrupt by any cc, so long as a stack of stability remains.
So you see, I mention all of this because I don’t think I have ever seen Anet make a skill that is completely immune to only one form off cc. As I said, they instead go with attaching stability to the skill.
Now with that in mind, I can’t really see them adding stability to a skill that already destroys projectiles, does decent damage, has an aoe blind, is a leap finisher, and can be traited to corrupt boons. Especially since we already have pulsing stability from RS3.
Hope that clears things up for ya. ;-P
I think the original suggestion was lost in translation:
Give skill an evade (aka anti CC) like Surge of the mists and the knock back.
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All wells should be dark fields. That’s something a necro can make use of in a variety of situations., and has value both in and out of shroud. It also fits thematically with the class.
Failing that wells should be poison or ice fields.
Remind me, how does a core Necro make use of dark fields?
Blast and Whirl Finishers are not a thing for core necro. Blowing minions is not a thing because it requires actually wasting a utility slot on those things. Flesh Wurm is the only blastable minion you’d ever take, but you’d never use it for fields because the teleport use has more value.
Although core necro does have practical access to projectile finishers. And it should be noted that projectile finishers in water fields don’t work. But projectile finishers in Dark fields always have value.
Also dude wells are not restricted to core necro. Reaper can use them too. (I sometimes take WoP on my Pnec in pvp for the boons, and when I do I’ll RS#4 combo to dark field as it is opportune)
I am well aware wells are not restricted to core Necro. I am also aware that balancing core Necro skills on the assumption that the Reaper spec is being used just makes Reaper that much more mandatory.
Also, as I have stated numerous times already, making Well of Blood a water field isn’t about benefiting the Necro himself, it’s about increasing the utility of an underused heal in a group setting where it was designed to be used.
As you pointed out, the Necro can’t make much use of a dark field at all, and it doesn’t have much group value either. Reaper has nice synergy with dark fields, but it’s not like Reaper doesn’t already have plenty of access to dark fields.
Just curious, who here is actually using Well of Blood so they can combo the light field?
In short, Necromancer isn’t really a combo field profession. As in, they have very limited means to combo and very limited amounts of fields. And changing Well of Blood to water isn’t gonna to change much. In a WvW setting (the only place people really use water fields) do you think a necromancer would run well of blood, purely for blasting in a zerg? No. They’d still stick with Consume Conditions whilst Elementalists would carry the water fields to heal the zerg.
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Always Necromancer. Its also why I’m always petitioning for changes.
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Well of Darkness and Signet of Undeath.
The first is a skill anet seems to think people will use if they continue to cut its cooldown, despite the fact that it is the butt of many a joke. The only time it had any use was when the specialization change was made and people used it to inflict blind, chill and 3 stacks of vuln per pulse. With the most recent patch, it is now completely inferior to the Greatsword skill Nightfall (as if it wasn’t already).
The second is a signet (obviously) that grants 2% lifeforce every 3 seconds on passive and resurrects 3 downed foes in a 180 radius with a 3s cast time. The passive is negligible and the active, like most res skills, is just plain terrible.
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Given it’s on a 6 second cooldown, it’s easy to argue that it’s overloaded already. 600 range dash, AoE Blind, decent damage, and projectile blocking.
At most, all I would change is that you don’t stop moving on the very first hit on your target, instead continuing to move if they are no longer getting hit.
Meanwhile in wvw… there are a crap ton of incredible skills being spammed and players are bouncing all over… and this skill gets crapped on by enemies moving, pathing issues, and is completely shut down by 1 (of the thousand incoming) immob… All of this wonderfulness on the least mobile profession in-game that has 1 offensive mobile skill gated behind shroud.
Does that justify buffing it to Surge of the Mists proportions? Hell no. As much as I want Necro to be buffed, that’s just over compensating.
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As I already said in reply to this guys comment, it would mean increasing the skill cooldown to at least 20 seconds (more like 30s given rev skills have an energy cost).
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On a different note, it would be interesting to actually see more condition based foes (like the blight cat golem in the Chaos fractal).
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People underestimate whirling in a dark field. I’ve fully healed myself from about 10% hp when using #4 reaper’s shroud in a dark field, in combination with Vampiric and Vampiric Aura.
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This ability should remove imobilize and go trough enemys knoking them down like rev staff.
Not massively. To 10s tops considering how flufy reapershroud is. If too op then same cd and remove imobilize and evade while doing it.
That would mean increasing the cooldown massively to like 20s at the very least.
Surge of the Mists has a 20s cooldown + energy cost (rev skills generally have lower cooldowns because of the energy cost) and is the best CC skill in game while having a 1s evade too.
Even if you were to remove the evade, you’d still be left with the projectile block, massive CC and the added imob removal. That’s easily a 20s cooldown in of itself, if not more.
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I think it’s even easier: boss inflicts a condition to one person in the party and has to be transfered back to him, meanwhile he is invulnerable. Do it quite often, in a random time so that’s unexpected. Necros would shine attracting the condition from its party members and sending it back easily.
no. just no. absolutely not.
this would mean that ONLY necro would be good here. or builds would have to gut themselves with sigil of transferrance.
that’s not how anet makes encounters; nor is it how they should.
You wouldn’t need transferrance.
All you would need for that mechanic is 1 necro with Plague Signet since Plague signet’s passive will pull the condi off whichever players get it.
So in that case, we’d have 1 boss where people would bring a single necro just for that but in most other fights, necro would still be ignored by most groups. Bad idea is bad.
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I wouldn’t hold your breath, gen 2 is barely at the halfway mark.
And that’s a bit generous, since there are only 7 second generation legends out of 16 that HoT is supposed to include.
They’ll have to accelerate the process somehow.
- Three were available with HoT’s release: Nevermore, HOPE, Astralaria
- Chuka & Champwat became avail in April 2016
- Eureka (the first without a collection) was added in September 2016
- Shooshadoo in November 2016
- HMS Divinity joined in February 2017
So that’s a total of 4 added in 18 months, less than one every 4 months. It’s not clear that we’ll see 9 more added within the next 18 months and yet ANet has also said they want to release expacs more quickly than they did the first one.
Yes but since they changed the collection process, they’ve added 3 in 5 months. The next should be arriving sometime in May according to Anet, though it will likely be legendary armour (sigh).
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This ability should remove imobilize and go trough enemys knoking them down like rev staff.
That would mean increasing the cooldown massively to like 20s at the very least.
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Give Well of Darkness projectile block and a small amount of damage (will trigger vampiric/vamp aura) but revert the cooldown reduction from last patch.
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As I mentioned in a post somewhere,I think that with all these proposed changes that the OP have to include in which game mode they would want to see changes!
Because we have that now. We didn’t but we do now. So let’s not try and generalize all the game modes.
My idea was to use the change it in all game modes.
I do not expect everyone to agree, in fact in some situations this solution becomes a nerf, but my intention was to change the trait as little as possible.
If the change proves problematic in pvp, you might think to boost the toughness weakening up to 250 for that game mode or something similar (balancing pvp can be difficult).
That’s a good sign of balance. Like the Pinpoint distribution change was actually a nerf to personal damage (if you had 500 or more precision on top of the base 1000) but was a massive buff to party damage.
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A few things about shroud traits:
Path of Corruption only affects the final blinding hit on reaper shroud #2 but corrupts boons on all foes struck by it.
Dhuumfire will affect every attack in the auto chain on reaper shroud as will Unyielding Blast.
Reaper’s Might will also affect every auto attack chain granting 1 might per attack (not per foe hit as some people think).
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3: vampiric aura: that kitten dmg and zero to kitten healing -> like thief’s invihorating presence (15% of crit strike dmg to heal) tweaked to 7-10% and to heal not only the necro but 5-10 allies.
toughts about it?
I think maybe it should also heal off conditions too. And 7% seems a bit low. 10% or more seems balanced.
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People would grow bored of it, if it were here all year long. Part of the attraction is the limited availability.
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A trap should never reveal a caster, but the victim. Logic, duh! ANet again demonstrated they have 0 clue and no common sense whatsoever.
I like the fact it got nerfed, but I expected a more logical approach, like removing the even so completely obsolete Trapper runes, removing certain condis from the thief or reducing stacks and duration. How absurd does this even sound… you place a trap and YOU get revealed? This does not make any sense!
Logic? Man… we’re talking about people disappearing from sight, others shooting fireballs, etc, etc. What they did was fine, and “logic” and “common sense” don’t factor into the equation beyond balance in relation to the rest of the game.
And most ghost thieves don’t use Trapper Runes.
I know this is a fantasy game but that does not mean it has to be a complete mess far away from any logic. Even in fantasy films when someone creates a trap it reveals their enemy and not them.
If not, then just destroy it completely by giving teleport with guns shooting radiating spider web to every class and make all look like hulk-coloured unicorns with devilish horns, beer backpacks and weed logo on their chests so all can be happy.
If we’re going on logic then how come the worst party support profession in gw2 doesn’t have the higher dps. But yet a profession that has the highest amount of group healing also has the highest dps?
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Not sure what the problem is here. Just learn to manually click it instead. I’ve been able to succeed most first tries.
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Stone Summit Beastmaster, because giant kitten beasts as mounts.
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Give necro some blocks instead, that wouldn’t be so bad, or some life force gain while in combat or something. (similar to Signet of Rage’s adrenaline in combat, minuscule but not un-helpful)
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Undeath
Don’t ask for it we already have it.
I was kinda meaning as a class mechanic, not as a kittenty skill noone in their right mind would ever take
I think you meant Berserker’s Fury rather than Signet of Rage.
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That doesn’t make much sense … that’s the wrong way to think about what shroud does in the first place because the unique class skills aren’t build around an ‘X’ or a ‘Y’ kind of build. In fact, if shroud doesn’t add anything to the build you want to use, you can completely ignore it. That’s the opposite of obstruction.
Yes but Necromancer is held back in many ways because we have shroud. In Anet’s eyes and on paper it is the best profession mechanic (2nd life bar + 5 extra skills) when in reality it isn’t half as good.
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Best thing to do is make a new sink for HoT account bound materials (ley-line sparks/airship oil/auric dust etc). I’d start doing HoT meta again if they had more value.
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wvw? this is still a thing?
As funny as that joke is, WvW often has more pull than PvP.
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I’m just hoping for Anet’s sake they make it a support spec. It worked for ranger with druid.
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I can see why Anet wouldn’t want to buff turrets at all, given how cancerous they were in pvp before the Specialization change.
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Increased damage per condition on your target.
1% per condition
Put this into “Rending Shroud” and rename the trait. Then this trait would be a good alternative to the other spite master traits.
There are 14 conditions in the game so a 14% damage increase would be the maximum. 10% is realistic in a group scenario and 3 to 5% solo.
Then Power Reaper should end up with ~32k dps in PvE without becoming broken in PvP as there I would still prefer Chill of Death as better burst/debuff alternative for single targets.
For group support:
You and your allies (up to 5) deal increased damage per condition on your target.
1% per condition
as a grandmaster trait!
I like the cut of your jib!
Also you just reminded me that Necros did have a baseline trait of +2% damage per condition on foe in the curses line before Anet changed them to specializations.
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