Guild Wars 2

Verificus.4320:

Yeah but is it my, or the speedclear communities’ fault that we attempt this? Or is it anet for not designing encounters that are so trivial it leads to us approaching it in this way?

While I don’t personally like speed clears, I’ve also stated that there isn’t anything wrong with them (in theory). It’s just how you and those like you ‘prefer’ to play. Just like I prefer to do more casual clears. But again, that’s beyond the original point that was being argued.

As for whose fault it is, the blames actually lies on both parties. Yes, Anet has the blame of not making the encounters more meaningful. However there is also fault on the speed clearers’ side in looking for ways to completely trivialize the content and intentionally sidestepping the mechanics and the spirit in how it was ‘designed to be played.’

It’s not exploiting as we are not using any programs, out of map stuff or any of the sorts to complete content.

Some would argue that intentionally finding a specific spot to stand in order to completely (or almost completely) negate a fight’s mechanics to be an exploit.

Anet provides all the tools by making encounters so trivial that if you go max dps you avoid a large part of the fight mechanics and just kill it. And by providing us with gear, dodge, block and other skills.

Its true, they did design and provide all those things. However, like all designers they also likely designed them with a ‘happy path’ in mind. Sure they catch many of the potential flaws and issues, but developers and QAs are human. They aren’t going to catch every scenario, every potential synergy. Besides, there are a lot more of us to come up with these things than there are of them.

How would you reckon they’d fix this? Removing all those abilities?

Not at all. But why can the foes not be smart enough to counter some of our tactics? Have the ability to detect /reveal stealth for example. What if foes in dungeons had no tethers and chased the party to the boss and dog piled them, instead of allowing to be skipped. There are (and have been) a lot of interesting twists they could throw in to make these fights more interesting, with mechanics you can’t simply ignore or glitch.

Then a trinity would probably be needed.

This isn’t necessarily true either.

Remove zerker? Another stat combination will come out on top.

I’m not saying to remove zerk either. But yes, doing so would simply mean that another gear would step into the best dps slot.

At this point we have completely moved well past the entire original point…

I like the armor. And I wonder where he’s at… maybe the mists dropped him somewhere deeper in the Wastes?

Cause I find it boring to kill things in 3 hits?
Cause I’m not necessarily playing to get to the shiny as fast as I can?
Sometimes I don’t care about the shiny at all because I’m just enjoying time with people I’m with?

Unless I’m farming, then yes killing things more quickly suits my needs.

shrug

That’s like asking why I eat chocolate. I don’t need it, but I sure do enjoy it. Same general idea in the game.

Verificus.4320:

It’s very evident not many here do any type of high level PvE..

In high level fractals that Valk thief and Zerk thief would both get one-shot by many things. The stuff they are supposed to dodge. Not the in between small base attacks or other type of damage like conditions or w/e. There is no point to running Valk here as passive defense does absolutely nothing. Thus by making the choice to run Valk in these higher fractals they are lowering group DPS and getting nothing in return. They think they are surviving longer but in reality they don’t they are just bringing down the group’s performance. There is no amount of passive defense in the world that can work for you when a large part of encounters have some form of one-shot mechanic. Instead, it’s better to go max DPS so that the one-shot mechanic is encountered less because the fight is shorter. Thus requiring less dodges, blocks, blinds, invuln etc.

Maybe in fractal level 1 or something like AC someone who cannot play relaxed/properly with zerk equipped can stay alive longer when they go knights or w/e but since this topic is about a DPS-meter (a fairly hardcore feature I would assume), we are not talking about the easier PvE content. If I’m doing a level 50 fractal and i’m one guy short that I need to pug and he comes in with valk or knights he will very much affect the success of that run as the group DPS will drop by enough to allow some bosses to execute their one-shot fights more often cuz the fight lasts longer. In which case the party might wipe if we are out of damage negation. All the while this kid gets nothing in return for his extra defensive stats cuz he gets nuked by the content all the same. That makes you a bad player.

I read it. I truly did, and while I can understand your perspective (to a point), all this says is..

“We have to burn the foe down as fast as we can so we don’t have to deal with his mechanics”

That’s the long and the short of it. The faster you kill him, the less skilled / tactical / strategic you need to be because you’re simply side stepping the mechanics. And you depend on that, which makes it a crutch.

Sariel V.7024:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I disagree that ascended should be a luxury item. I do not agree that best in slot gear is a “luxury.” Of course, I come from playing GW1 where stats weren’t a luxury thing. Cosmetics where.

Tell that to someone trying to buy a req9 max damage inscribable Death Magic Bone Dragon Staff.

See there, it’s the skin that’s the luxury there. Because you could easily get The exact same weapon sans the skin a dime a dozen. An inscribable max dmg staff req 9 death was super easy to get. Think there were a few collectors in NIghtfall that offered them I believe, and I think you might have been ale to craft them from one or two of the npcs. Of course, there were also lots of collectors that offered non-inscribable ones, so you could typically find one with the insric you wanted if you looking.

Lifestealer.4910:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

DaveGan.8065:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The zerk speed clearers don’t want to play with those people, and that’s fine, but stop ridiculing them for being different. You don’t know a kitten thing about them!

I know that their ceiling is double digit percentage points lower than that of a zerker.

While most of us are aware of the imperfect correlation between “potential” and “reality”, the double digit percentage ceiling gap is indeed a reality and means a non-zerker has to play that much better to even catch up.

Another brutally honest truth: playing zerker/non-zerker is a choice (as opposed to a skill requirement), and choices have consequences. It’s up to you whether you take “sub-optimal” (in the context of ceiling/potential) as objective truth or subjective ridicule.

PS: You’ll only ever hear this word from me if you try to offer suboptimal advice to someone asking for help in map chat. But, if you do talk about how your tanking/healing/roleplaying setup is somehow optimal, you will no longer be entitled to my silence.

Never claimed to be optimal. Just different, which is a perfectly valid choice to make.

My point still stands. Just because they opt to run Valk over Zerk (for example) doesn’t make them a “bad” or skill-less players. Yes, they do less damage. Yes, they are not running the most efficient, face roll armor available. That still does not make them wrong. It does not make them bad ( although there are those that legitimately are). Which was the whole topic of the original conversation.

Not whether they were right or wrong for trying to join a zerk speed clear that is clearly called out as one. Not whether they do more or less damage. Not whether its optimal or not.

Assuming people are “bad” players just because they don’t run zerk gear is the same as assuming that the black man you pass on the street is absolutely going to mug you. It’s not necessarily true. That is the whole point of this conversation.

I am quite curious as to why you call zerk, a face roll armor?…if anything any gear that makes you noticeably more tanky through passive stats is more facerollish than zerk. A valkyrie thief for instance can make alot more mistakes in a dungeon than a zerk thief, evident in one of my cm runs where a valk thief facetanked a rocket turret without being downed while a zerk thief would be instantly in down state. The same pretty much goes for any fights where their are big hits involved.

Just difference in how we view the term I suppose. Some people view it in the defensive manner (face tanking as you put it), others view it as being overpowered in the offensive manner. When I run around in zerk gear (which I do on my war) everything typically dies so kitten quickly that it really takes 0 effort to do.

I’m also on board with those saying this is something we shouldn’t have to pay for as an additional thing. I would like to see replay-ability come to the PS, but I also understand that it would require some tweaking on Anet’s part since it’s not designed with replay-ability in mind.

Vayne.8563:

Not to mention how many “bad” zerkers I’ve happened across. Wearing zerker gear doesn’t necessarily make you good.

Yeah, I touched on that in a previous post trying to make my point too.

Using non zerk gear doesn’t automatically make you bad. Conversely, using zerk gear doesn’t automatically make you good.

It was conveniently ignored.

Killface.1896:

I just want personal dps meter that is win win for all if you for it or against it

I’m perfectly fine with a personal DPS meter of some sort. I’ve suggested several times that we could use something along the lines of GW1’s Isle of the Nameless.

DaveGan.8065:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

The zerk speed clearers don’t want to play with those people, and that’s fine, but stop ridiculing them for being different. You don’t know a kitten thing about them!

I know that their ceiling is double digit percentage points lower than that of a zerker.

While most of us are aware of the imperfect correlation between “potential” and “reality”, the double digit percentage ceiling gap is indeed a reality and means a non-zerker has to play that much better to even catch up.

Another brutally honest truth: playing zerker/non-zerker is a choice (as opposed to a skill requirement), and choices have consequences. It’s up to you whether you take “sub-optimal” (in the context of ceiling/potential) as objective truth or subjective ridicule.

PS: You’ll only ever hear this word from me if you try to offer suboptimal advice to someone asking for help in map chat. But, if you do talk about how your tanking/healing/roleplaying setup is somehow optimal, you will no longer be entitled to my silence.

Never claimed to be optimal. Just different, which is a perfectly valid choice to make.

My point still stands. Just because they opt to run Valk over Zerk (for example) doesn’t make them a “bad” or skill-less players. Yes, they do less damage. Yes, they are not running the most efficient, face roll armor available. That still does not make them wrong. It does not make them bad ( although there are those that legitimately are). Which was the whole topic of the original conversation.

Not whether they were right or wrong for trying to join a zerk speed clear that is clearly called out as one. Not whether they do more or less damage. Not whether its optimal or not.

Assuming people are “bad” players just because they don’t run zerk gear is the same as assuming that the black man you pass on the street is absolutely going to mug you. It’s not necessarily true. That is the whole point of this conversation.

I can understand them trying to get away from generic dailies. We’ve been here once before. It’s hard to make a “worthwhile” (and I’m really using that loosely) reward for something as generic as ‘kill 50 foes.’ Of course, since the beginning of the game, they have stated (and as far as I know, this hasn’t changed) that they don’t really want to do generic things like that. Which was why they tried (and were only semi-successful) to make ‘questing’ different.

Yes, having generic ‘kill 10 rats’ type achievements are much easier to accomplish and happen (in a sense) more naturally as you just play through, but I think there are some people that would like the more specific ones. I’m sort of on the fence personally. I know when we had the more specific ones before I didn’t do my daily as often because it wasn’t occurring naturally, where as I have a couple of guildies that really enjoyed having the very specific direction.

I do agree that a solution would be to have a mix of the generic and specific options under pve. This should appease most people (because you’re never going to please them all). Maybe not 3 generic (easy) ones necessarily (because then you’ll get the complaints that its “too easy” for some people to get the max AP for dailies). However they could mix it up, maybe 3 and 3 one day. 2 and 4 the next, etc.

Harper.4173:

Choice might not invalidate skill but it does invalidate usefulness.

“Usefulness” is subjective. It varies from person to person, group to group.

Harper.4173:

It’s not at all about skill – but about getting things done.

It that were true (“getting things done”) then it really would not matter what the person was wearing, as it has been repeatedly pointed out that the game can be played naked.

If no-hands Harry ( no offense to any actual people called that) wanted in my party and regardless of his lack of hands he was a perfect machine at executing dungeon runs but was terrible at everything else I would still want him in my dungeon runs over anybody else. Because that’s where he’s needed and that’s what he does well.
His performance anywhere else is irrelevant to me.

I get your point here, and in general the topic is not so much non zerks joining all zerk speedclear groups (that’s its own issue). Nor is it that zerk isn’t /shouldn’t be the optimal armor. It’s that absolutely everything is viable (even playing naked). Choosing to be something other than zerk (including playing naked) does not negate a players skill, it only states that they have opted to play a different way. That doesn’t make them bad or wrong, just different. The zerk speed clearers don’t want to play with those people, and that’s fine, but stop ridiculing them for being different. You don’t know a kitten thing about them!

Rauderi.8706:

Shadowflame, dearheart, you enjoy this, don’t you? =P

Oh my, whatever could you mean? I’m an innocent little angel! stuffs horns into purse

I’m just being me

lordkrall.7241:

I also really don’t see how giving us stuff for free from simply logging in somehow turns to giving us stuff for free makes us give them money.

Although….there are bound to be people who do that though.

lordkrall.7241:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

So because someone doesn’t see this change in a negative light, you assume they are getting paid by anet?

Oh, haven’t you heard?
Everyone that doesn’t hate everything about the game is paid by ArenaNet.

Where the hell is my paycheck then? I’m feeling robbed.

Luna.9640:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Luna.9640:

How much you’re getting paid by Anet ? (answer carefully because the door can always hit you from behind)

So because someone doesn’t see this change in a negative light, you assume they are getting paid by anet?

No but his whole “psychiatrist torturing his mentally ill patient laying on the coach” type of questions and answers is typical to people who get paid to white-knight certain companies over internet. (which I’ve red about in newspaper)

I’ve seen a lot of people around here post like that. Both those for and against assorted Anet shenanigans.

“White Knights,” we need to start our own guild or something. Just to be that much more annoying.

Thaddeus.4891:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Our point is that it is the skins that should be the costly part. Things that take the time to hunt or farm or save for.

Not the stats. They should be mutually exclusive; however, in the case of ascended (which I don’t think is all the wonderful a skin to begin with) they are not.

Well obviously, Anet don’t agree with you. The best stats was exotic and they added ascended because ppl complained that it was too easy to get the best gear. Can we please don’t get back into a 18 months old discussion about ascended.

Maybe one of these days they’ll listen. They’ve started adding other things that are that old, suggestion wise, so here’s to hoping.

Luna.9640:

How much you’re getting paid by Anet ? (answer carefully because the door can always hit you from behind)

So because someone doesn’t see this change in a negative light, you assume they are getting paid by anet?

Astralporing.1957:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I simply look at in the sense that this is something people have asked for. Repeatedly. Including the ‘i should be rewarded just for logging in’ bullkitten. So they gave it to us.

I find it especially funny, since the “rewards for just logging in” was something mentioned mostly by people that wanted everything to be hard, and beyond reach of average players (and mentioned only as a strawman to ridicule those that disagreed). Seems Anet listened to them and believed it’s truly what the players want. Hilarious, isn’kitten

Yes, it did make me chuckle, and shrug. Still, it “was” asked for and we got it. I’m not going to judge it as bad or fail before I give it a fair trial. Like I said before though, it’s not really going to affect how often I do or don’t log in. Other things in life take precedent over a game (no matter how much I may like the game).

Our point is that it is the skins that should be the costly part. Things that take the time to hunt or farm or save for.

Not the stats. They should be mutually exclusive; however, in the case of ascended (which I don’t think is all the wonderful a skin to begin with) they are not.

I simply look at in the sense that this is something people have asked for. Repeatedly. Including the ‘i should be rewarded just for logging in’ bullkitten. So they gave it to us.

On the up side, if you do take a break, you don’t lose your daily log in progress, which I appreciate.

Honestly, this isn’t going to make me log in any more or less than dailies did before.

Verificus.4320:

You guys are steering off course. The point is that people who don’t play meta are bad and should only play with people who are also bad and against meta build. Don’t come near us, don’t join our games if we advertise zerk exp, go play how you want in your own instances. Or make a LFG saying: no zerk all welcome something like that. But don’t try to argue that meta isn’t the best and most optimal way to play. There are no valid arguments to be made, you cannot dispute math and numbers.

1) Just because people choose to play differently does not make them bad players. Choice does not negate skill, period.

2) You don’t want non-zerks to join your all zerk groups. That’s fine. I’ve agreed with that general topic as well.

3) We aren’t arguing that zerk isn’t the best dps, or the most optimal armor. In fact I have agreed on that point too.

I will argue that the meta might not be the best for the game as a whole. Health wise,but that’s neither here nor there. The point still stands that simply choosing not to play a cookie cutter build doesn’t make you a bad player. Conversely, choosing to play the meta / cookie cutter / gimmick doesn’t make you good either.

Antara.3189:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Rauderi.8706:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

But they don’t enjoy the time it took. That’s the problem. One of the biggest complaints AP hunters had was that it took forever to get all 10 AP for the assorted dailies. They felt pressured into doing it and they couldn’t “play how they wanted to.”

Now anet has changed that, and some of them still aren’t happy.

And they never will? /shrug

I could have used this change yesterday. I was short on time (because shammy-leveling elsewhere), so a quick in-and-out would’ve been happy.

Yeah I know, but I still have to poke at them. It’s in the fine print

Antara.3189:

Win? I don’t think they are out to win or lose. They are out to make money, which they are making lots of.

Everyone’s going to have their disagreements on what’s good or bad, but please don’t feel bad for them. I know I’ve given them more than enough of my money.

All for profit companies are out to make money. That’s their entire point. I’ve given them plenty of money too, but that’s not the point.

I used that point since you sounded like you were feeling sorry for them since people are upset.

I do feel for the devs when everytime they try to do something that people ask for, someone decides they need to kitten all over them for it.

Verificus.4320:

Except it’s not a gimmick, it’s meta. It’s the best way to play.

chuckle

Gimmick. Meta. Same kitten thing. ‘Meta’ is just a nicer word for it is. Perhaps you would prefer cookie cutter instead?

Antara.3189:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well I did not think GW2 could get any more casual… legendary weapons just for logging into the game… wow…

The actual daily changes seem good, but the log in rewards are just sad…

It’ll probably be like 1 clover. Or 1 t6 material. If that.

It’s not like they are handing out the precursors.

For that we will have to actually wait to see.

/agree

Colin….since you’re here. Could you clarify… do we still get laurels daily with the new daily log in bonus. Or are they becoming a randomized reward?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well I did not think GW2 could get any more casual… legendary weapons just for logging into the game… wow…

The actual daily changes seem good, but the log in rewards are just sad…

It’ll probably be like 1 clover. Or 1 t6 material. If that.

It’s not like they are handing out the precursors.

Rauderi.8706:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

But they don’t enjoy the time it took. That’s the problem. One of the biggest complaints AP hunters had was that it took forever to get all 10 AP for the assorted dailies. They felt pressured into doing it and they couldn’t “play how they wanted to.”

Now anet has changed that, and some of them still aren’t happy.

And they never will? /shrug

I could have used this change yesterday. I was short on time (because shammy-leveling elsewhere), so a quick in-and-out would’ve been happy.

Yeah I know, but I still have to poke at them. It’s in the fine print

Antara.3189:

Win? I don’t think they are out to win or lose. They are out to make money, which they are making lots of.

Everyone’s going to have their disagreements on what’s good or bad, but please don’t feel bad for them. I know I’ve given them more than enough of my money.

All for profit companies are out to make money. That’s their entire point. I’ve given them plenty of money too, but that’s not the point.

Verificus.4320:

You don’t seem to understand. The choice they make completely invalidates their skill as a player. Their choice makes them kittenoon as they make the choice they stop being ‘very good players’.

Choice invalidates skill?

Well that’s a first. So the people that can (and have) completed the dungeons naked are not skilled players. Gotcha. Because they made a choice to not use zerk gear to do it.

Edit: You know, that could be flipped on you just as easily. The choice to run zerk negates skill. You could look at from the perspective that you need to run a gimmick in order to be successful.

Rauderi.8706:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“I don’t want to have to do all the dailies to get max AP from them”

Anet: Ok, we’re going to make it a flat 10 AP. You need only do 3. And we’re going to start giving you related rewards for doing them, so if you do more than 3 you feel like it was worthwhile

“Omg no! This is a slap in the face”

They can’t win. For crying out loud.

I would guess the actual argument is “I enjoy my 1.5 hours of daily-hunting.”

To which ANet says “You’re spending too much time hunting dailies and not playing the game.”

So I see where the displeasure is coming from. I see it, but I don’t agree. This is, by far, the most equitable solution I’ve seen to the daily situation, since WvW and PvP get the same 10 AP for doing achievements in their realms. Kudos, I say.

But they don’t enjoy the time it took. That’s the problem. One of the biggest complaints AP hunters had was that it took forever to get all 10 AP for the assorted dailies. They felt pressured into doing it and they couldn’t “play how they wanted to.”

Now anet has changed that, and some of them still aren’t happy.

Astral Projections.7320:

Can someone post a link to the changes? I don’t know where to look.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-new-daily-achievement-system/

xGraver.4918:

This system feels like they picked it up from thous many many browser or android games where just logging in or smelling flowers rewards you stuff.

I had had the same thought, though it’s not necessarily a bad thing. I do like that unlike those browser games, your progress doesn’t reset if you miss a day

“I don’t want to have to do all the dailies to get max AP from them”

Anet: Ok, we’re going to make it a flat 10 AP. You need only do 3. And we’re going to start giving you related rewards for doing them, so if you do more than 3 you feel like it was worthwhile

“Omg no! This is a slap in the face”

They can’t win. For crying out loud.

Dinks.2478:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think Verificus is a wonderful (/end sarcasms) example of why we don’t have damage meters in this game.

Don’t we all love how he assumes that because someone chooses to use cleric gear. Or not follow the meta. That they are automatically bad. Doesn’t matter whether its true or not.

DPS meters, inspect, etc encourage that type of mentality, which is something we absolutely don’t want. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against personal DPS meters (like testing a build in Isle of the Nameless in GW1), but when most people think “dps meter” they think “group” and we absolutely don’t need that.

Because they are bad… They actively ignore the reality that they are inefficient and playing a weaker build just because they want to play the way they want. Not only are they bad, they are selfish and shouldn’t be joining parties with people. If you want to run a kitten build and waste your own time that is fine, but don’t drag other people down with you.

That doesn’t make them bad players. They could be very good players choosing to play in a different manner, for an assortment of reasons. (Maybe they got tired of facerolling foes with zerk gear. Some people find that boring)

Ok, if they join an a group asking for all zerks, I can see them being selfish and trolly in that scenario. Sure, their wrong in that instance. However, conversely there is nothing wrong in joining an ‘all welcome’ group.

maddoctor.2738:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Paradox.1380:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ponders

I don’t do dailies / monthlies for AP personally. So the change to the cap doesn’t bother me one way or the other (I’m no where close)

My concern is the daily laurels and 10 laurel addition from the monthlies. That’s 40 laurels a month (potentially). My concern is seeing a decrease in that due to the new system. That’s all that would really bother me.

It doesn’t you get 10 AP and your Laurel for finishing 3 Dailies. And Monthlies are being converted to a new system entirely where you can choose laurels or other things. It’d be great if people actually… read these new posts.

It would be good if you actually read what I wrote.

It does not say (anywhere) that you get your daily laurel along with the flat 10AP for finishing your 3. It does say that existing rewards (like laurels and mystic coins) have been moved to the daily log in rewards.

It goes on to say that the bonus chests on the daily reward track are a mix of existing rewards and some new rewards. Nowhere does that guarantee that we continue to get 1 laurel a day. Which was my concern. I did miss the part about choosing which addition you got on the ‘epic’ chest, though I did note that laurels were an option there. Considering how much they like RNG, I could see them having gone that route.

See, I did read

For the epic chest is says clearly (there is also a screenshot) that Laurels are not RNG, it’s your CHOICE of “either ascended crafting materials, materials necessary for crafting your legendary weapon (including mystic clovers), an additional sum of laurels, or tomes of knowledge.” Those chest laurels can may well be the 10 Monthly Laurels we get now, or some extra ones.

And I admitted I missed that is said choice. Though I did note it said additional laurels.

Guhracie.3419:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ponders

I don’t do dailies / monthlies for AP personally. So the change to the cap doesn’t bother me one way or the other (I’m no where close)

My concern is the daily laurels and 10 laurel addition from the monthlies. That’s 40 laurels a month (potentially). My concern is seeing a decrease in that due to the new system. That’s all that would really bother me.

“So we’ve moved the original rewards from daily and monthly achievements, thrown in some new items for good measure, and combined it all into a new bonus system that rewards players just for logging in to the game. The first time you log in each day, you’ll receive a new bonus reward. The items on this new reward track are not only a combination of the previous daily and monthly achievement rewards but also some additional items we’ve added…”

To all those with concerns about the current rewards, this paragraph would seem to be very misleading if they do reduce the number of laurels. It says nothing about subtracting the original rewards, just moving them.

Yes it says they are moving them. It says the chests are a combination of old and new. Doesn’t guarantee a laurel each day though. You could a get a mystic coin, and something new, for example, along with some gold, some karma, and a random black lion item. That meets the description they’ve given regarding what can be found in those daily reward chests.

I would simply like assurance that we still get the daily laurel.

Paradox.1380:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

ponders

I don’t do dailies / monthlies for AP personally. So the change to the cap doesn’t bother me one way or the other (I’m no where close)

My concern is the daily laurels and 10 laurel addition from the monthlies. That’s 40 laurels a month (potentially). My concern is seeing a decrease in that due to the new system. That’s all that would really bother me.

It doesn’t you get 10 AP and your Laurel for finishing 3 Dailies. And Monthlies are being converted to a new system entirely where you can choose laurels or other things. It’d be great if people actually… read these new posts.

It would be good if you actually read what I wrote.

It does not say (anywhere) that you get your daily laurel along with the flat 10AP for finishing your 3. It does say that existing rewards (like laurels and mystic coins) have been moved to the daily log in rewards.

It goes on to say that the bonus chests on the daily reward track are a mix of existing rewards and some new rewards. Nowhere does that guarantee that we continue to get 1 laurel a day. Which was my concern. I did miss the part about choosing which addition you got on the ‘epic’ chest, though I did note that laurels were an option there. Considering how much they like RNG, I could see them having gone that route.

See, I did read

ponders

I don’t do dailies / monthlies for AP personally. So the change to the cap doesn’t bother me one way or the other (I’m no where close)

My concern is the daily laurels and 10 laurel addition from the monthlies. That’s 40 laurels a month (potentially). My concern is seeing a decrease in that due to the new system. That’s all that would really bother me.

Buy Some Apples.6390:

No this is a temporary test, not an event. Also a test which many of us have said we dont want because we already know the end result. By trying to call this some sort of special event, or treat for us WvW players is still insulting if you ask me.

Just because this is a “test” does not preclude it from also being an “event.” It’s a test run to see how people like doing something like this. If it is successful (ie people like it) perhaps they can add other events (like maybe objectives have expiration times and need to be “recaptured” from neutral if they are owned for an extended period of time for example) in the future. Things that aren’t pemenent, but can shake up the play on occasion. Sort of like when they added Flux to GW1 pvp.

kylwilson.9137:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Let’s see 650g per light set…..

1 zerk, 1 assassin, 1 sinister, 1 celestial, 1 soldier for light….
(not even factoring in medium and heavy sets)

so 5 * 650g…… and that’s just for my account….

.

What light armored profession are you playing to take advantage of each of these stat spreads to warrant even making an ascended set of each of these? I’m genuinely curious.

Zerk – all purpose, pugging, farming, desire a little extra punch on occasion (shared)
Cele – Ele, general everyday play
Assassin – Mes, standard set
Sinister – Necro, (eotm, wvw, farming)
Soldier – wvw purposes (shared)

I have more than one of each light class for assorted reasons.

Edit: To be specific, I have 2 of each light class currently. Still need to make a light class charr, not sure whether she will be an ele or a necro tho. Prob an ele.

DarkWasp.7291:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Everything can be done in blues and greens (Been doing so quite successfully on my ranger until recently, even SW).

Was that you in my last fractals group? :P

Only if you were doing like a lvl 6 fractal lol! But no, I dont fractal with my ranger. Typically I take my mes or my ele, if and when I fractal (which you can probably tell isn’t often)

DarkWasp.7291:

GW2 is a “just go do something” type of game. You want to go do the new zone? Go do it. Was it fun, want to do it again? Go do it again. Got bored after three times? Go do something else. Guild is doing CoF? Tag along. Need a half hour break? Go to Sparkfly to get in a decent Tequatl group. Running across a canyon and you see a jumping puzzle you like? Go jump the puzzle.

I don’t consider that playstyle grinding at all, yet it’s causing me to jump up 40-100g on weekends and zoom in mats toward my next ascended item.

I play like that; but I don’t make anywhere near that amount of gold on weekends (when I obviously play the most).

Carighan.6758:

I still don’t quite get why people “need” an ascended set or a legendary. They serve as nice long-term goals, don’t chase them directly. It’s not like you’ll ever notice the difference to exotics outside of FotM, anyhow.

I agree that asended isn’t “needed.” It definitely didn’t need to be added to the game, but hey we got it. Still, both of those are beside the point. The original intent of the game (and one many GW1 vets still take issue with them changing stance on) was that BiS was not a luxury. Its something every player should readily, and easily have access to by the time they hit 80. Ascended does not fit this design, not as it currently stands. It’s a distinct step in the opposite direction, which is not ok. It opens the door for them to continue taking steps in that direction, potentially turning the game into another “preparing to have fun” gear grind mmo.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Astralporing.1957:

BlueBoy.1236:

Ascended and legendaries are luxury items.

BiS is not a luxury.

Please point to the content that you can’t complete in exotics… if there is some content that is physically impossible to complete in full exotic gear then ascended is no longer a luxury but is required. Otherwise it is a luxury item.

That’s not the point Zudet. Technically you can complete everything (except maybe SIlverwastes) naked. Everything can be done in blues and greens (Been doing so quite successfully on my ranger until recently, even SW). By your argument armor is a luxury, period.

Verificus.4320:

1: You misunderstand my definiton of bad. With bad I mean anti-meta, inconsiderate of teamwork and the party. When I make groups I specifically state I want experienced people in zerker gear. People choose to ignore these wishes and join anyway. They are selfish, arrogant meta-haters that come in to try and prove a point and in the end we wipe or the dungeon takes twice as long as normal and then they rage at me and my party rather than admit their own shortcomings. That is a bad player IMO.

I can agree that someone that joins a party asking for ‘x’ that is not ‘x’ is a “bad” person. That’s a big issue, on both sides of the fence (because you have meta players that are just as bad joining the casual groups and being kittens). I will agree that type of person is in the wrong.

2: I’ll sum it up again. Knowledge of combat or boss mechanics is irrelevant when you join a 4 zerker party as a cleric. You WILL make the party wipe with the loss of DPS. Zerker builds are specifically designed to pack the absolute minimum amount of surival in favor of DPS. Even if the individual fights last only 10 seconds longer that is enough time to offset the delicate balance and all 4 zerkers can and will wipe in that 10 second window. Could a team exist with 5 cleric guardians and complete the dungeon? Yes, most certainely, but why the hell would you do that if it means the dungeon lasts an hour instead of 15 minutes. I don’t have oceans of free time. I need these dungeons to end quick.

Yes, zerker builds are designed for a specific purpose, with a specific amount of survivablity; however, you are incorrect in stating that having 1 non-zerker (cleric or otherwise) will cause a wipe. This is not necessarily true, as there have been many successful runs to prove otherwise. Yes, in certain instances it may contribute. Yes, on certain bosses it will be distinctly more obvious. However, in general, the dps loss is negligible.

3: Yes, there is more to it, but this topic is specifically about PvE. Ofcourse the other stat combinations are highly useful in WvW or Tequatl and other ventures. Viable and optimal are very far apart from eachother in this game. This is something I dislike too and I would rather see viable and most optimal be less than 10% difference of eachother as Zerker does tend to get boring eventually. It isn’t however so I adapt because I support being optimal.

Yes the topic is about pve, which is more than just dungeons and fractals. The discussion is pve in general. It is also not specifically about being “optimal.” Yes it would be nice if the zerker wasn’t quite so far ahead of the rest, but it’s better with the ferocity change.

4: It would not be negligible. I don’t really feel like doing calculations but you can find out yourself. Gw2dungeons lists all the boss’ armor and health of any dungeon and fractal in the game. Guilds like DnT and rT have accurately calculated DPS of each class for the meta build. Construct yourself a hypothetical 5 man max DPS build then remove one and add in a cleric build and see what happens to the kill times. Unless you consider my above example of 10 seconds per boss negligible I would say it’s quite a large impact on performance. E.g. a boss that normally lasts 30 seconds now lasting 40 seconds is a big deal.

In grand scheme of things 10 seconds is negligible. So the fight requires 1 extra dodge, big deal. It’s manageable. Like I’ve said, there have been plenty of pug speed clears where someone is not zerk and they make it through just fine. It refutes the point you’re trying to make.

5: It does if you join a party that wishes to finish the dungeon fast. Note that this is entirely different than speedclearing. People always think that all zerkers are speedclearers. I’ve never even attempted a speedclear. However my time is precious, there is alot of stuff to do in this game and also in my life outside the game. If I want to do all the easy and fast dungeon paths in 1 day for gold/mats whatever I’d be playing 12 hours or more if I were to join all those ‘fun and viable’ cleric pug runs. I don’t have time for that at all and make that clear in the party description when LFG. Instead all paths take me about 3-4 hours and then I can go do something else.

The argument of joining a group asking for ‘x’ when you are not ‘x’ was not the point of my point. You made a blanket statement that essentially anything non zerk is not being a team player, not helpful, etc. Which is patently untrue.

The issue of zerks trolling casual runs, or clerics trolling speed clears is a different topic, it’s own issue. Not specifically what was being discussed here.

I disagree that ascended should be a luxury item. I do not agree that best in slot gear is a “luxury.” Of course, I come from playing GW1 where stats weren’t a luxury thing. Cosmetics where.

I can agree that legendaries should be a luxury. And I can agree that their stat swapping should remain unique to them, to enhance that luxury.

But not ascended.

Let’s see 650g per light set…..

1 zerk, 1 assassin, 1 sinister, 1 celestial, 1 soldier for light….
(not even factoring in medium and heavy sets)

so 5 * 650g…… and that’s just for my account….

Yeah…I’m going to be “working” for quite a long time. I don’t make anywhere near as much gold kitten many people keep saying they do. Obviously I’m playing “wrong” and I need to start looking at GW2 as a part time job rather than a game.

I topped out at 525g (got lucky and sold 2 chaos weapons) and that has been rapidly dwindling as I buy silk, linen, rugged leather, and t6 blood. Not sure why I have no luck farming those 4 things, but it sure as hell eats my gold reserves.

1) In some instances they might actually be bad players, not necessarily.

2) Making a choice to be something other than zerker does not mean that they don’t know combat or boss mechanics.

3) There is more to the game than kittening dungeons and fractals, and even there everything is viable. Not optimal, true, but still viable.

4) The change in burn down time for many bosses would be negligible in your example. Not all, but there are exceptions to all things.

5) Choosing to be something other than zerk does not mean you are “not useful” to your party

I think Verificus is a wonderful (/end sarcasms) example of why we don’t have damage meters in this game.

Don’t we all love how he assumes that because someone chooses to use cleric gear. Or not follow the meta. That they are automatically bad. Doesn’t matter whether its true or not.

DPS meters, inspect, etc encourage that type of mentality, which is something we absolutely don’t want. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against personal DPS meters (like testing a build in Isle of the Nameless in GW1), but when most people think “dps meter” they think “group” and we absolutely don’t need that.

Maybe they are taking people’s “suggestions” and taking some extra time to debug.

Edit: And it’s not like we won’t have anything to do in the mean time.

Bryzy.2719:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Would just to point out that throwing “l2p” in their face isn’t going to help the matter any either. If they are already being kittens, you don’t need to add fuel to the fire. Just turn off wsper or stick them on ignore.

No, you can’t change human nature. That’s so very true. But you don’t need to be a kitten in return either.

What? Since when did I say anything about telling anyone to “L2P”? Don’t add words to my thread that aren’t there.

I wasn’t talking about you specifically. I was addressing the points Mental made.

Still, guilty conscience ?

Veydar.5017:

Baldrick.8967:

I dream of the day I get any chests containing any celestial exotic stuff, ever.

Would you be okay with getting ascended celestial stuff? Run Fractals! You will be able to wear Celestial underwear to the Christmas dinner where you’ll be using celestial pottery!

Ugh, but fractals are so boring…

..not to mention some of that community need to extract their heads from their rear ends…

You’re talking about say, needing to only buy Zojja’s inscription once and all your weapon makers have access to it, or buy Zojjas insignia once and all your armor makers can use it? I could go with that (though if they change this, I’d be demanding a few refunds)

I’d say you still need to buy the patterns though, since zojjas light gloves and zojjas medium gloves (for example) aren’t the same thing. Now if you have say 2 tailors at 500, I could see having the pattern unlocked on both in that instance. (but why would you bother leveling a duplicate to 500?)

Still though, I don’t find it to be that big a deal to make the the inscription (weaponsmith) or insignia (tailor) on the chars that have them, and just stick them in my vault for the others to use.

Indeed, but some of us have stacks of maize balm just lying around to begin with (got lots of them farming MKL)

Of course, if you can get 9 critters with the single maize balm, I seem to typically get more than 100 cc in those 9 bags. It’d be a slow accrual with a lot of praying to the rng gods, but it’s an option.