Guild Wars 2

Grimreaper.5370:

Arcane Trait changes: http://i.imgur.com/DH70jqk.jpg

Minor – Arcane fury useful as always, Lingering Elements should at least have its description changed so people know it only works with Soothing Mist and Stone Flesh. Arcane Precision giving a 15% reduction on all attunements is pretty darn cool since that will mean we get an 8.7 ICD on attunements with this minor in mind.

Adept : Arcane Energy- I don’t see this trait being used but who knows,
maybe this and Renewing Stamina together will make for a mean acrobatic Thei-I mean Ele.

Renewing Stamina- Forever will be the go to Adept in the Arcana line… This should just become a minor trait IMO, replace it with lingering Elements?

Arcane Abatement – lol…

Master : Arcane Resurrection – I don’t see this being used in a serious build, but who knows maybe when comboing this with some earth traits to reduce DMG taken we’ll see some trollish Ele builds solely focusing on rezing

Arcane Shield – very underwhelming master trait, it would make for a great Adept trait if
Renewing Stamina became a minor trait.

Elemental Contingency – I’m guessing if an Elementalist is still going to invest into the Arcana
line post patch, this will be the go to Master trait.

Grand Master : Evasive Arcana – A great trait as all us Elementalists know

Elemental Surge – This is the Arcana GM trait which will probably be least used, if
the immob and chill durations were increased slightly and this skill somehow
sped up the recharge rate of the arcane skills then I could see this
being a valuable trait.

Elemental Attunement – The trait which has basically been the classes bread and butter ever since it originated as an Adept trait.
IMO THIS TRAIT NEEDS TO HAVE THE PROTECTION AND REGEN DURATIONS REDUCED AND THEN MADE A BASE PART OF THE CLASS, THIS TRAIT IS ONLY OVER THE TOP DUE TO THE HIGH PROTECTION DURATION IT PROVIDES COMBINED WITH ELEMENTAL SHIELDING

-Astro Blackfire

Arcane line took a hard hit. I’m unhappy about these.

Minors: Arcane Fury, Lingering Attunements are the same. Arcane Precision sounds ok, however I feel like they want eles not to go into Arcana anymore.

Adepts: Renewing Stamina is the only reasonable pick there. Falling damage trait is not even worth to talk about. Arcane energy could find its use, but I don’t think it’ll be picked over perma vigor.

Masters: This is just all horrible. These three are just bad, so bad. I honestly don’t know what I would pick there. I might as well leave it empty. Res trait is complete trash, Elemental Contingency is bad, too. You don’t want to run into enemies to get procs, especially when you’re squishy. Final shielding has way too long cooldown to be worth taken.

Grandmasters: Elemental Surge is weak, not gonna be used at all. Like really? Conditions and ferocity in one trait? Not even mentioning going into this tree for dps is pretty sad. Then we have Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana competing with each other. I’m really really really upset about this. Especially when everyone knows that these two are crucial for eles. Elemental Attunement should be nerfed a bit (reduced duration on stab and rege) and moved to baseline. It’s not creating any more build options, it’ll just make eles going into Arcana be stuck with one useless major trait. This should be totally reworked.

Overall, very disappointed with Arcana. I hope they will reconsider these changes or might as well stop playing ele.

Grimreaper.5370:

Water trait Changes: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

Minors – Soothing Mist is great as always, Healing Ripple oh how we all rely so much on you.
And now Aquatic Benevolence as our new minor! This is amazing!

Adept : Soothing Ice – Holy crap this looks soo good, traits like this might make up for the arcana line being
butchered. I might even go so far as to say this trait is sort of OP since this trait
would mean you have a frost aura up almost 40% of the time while in battle…
Perhaps the Frost aura could be reduced by a second.

Piercing Shards – I don’t see this trait being picked up as it stands currently, it won’t work
with lingering Elements I’m assuming.

Stop Drop and Roll – I’m so happy to see this an Adept trait! Finally! I think this trait should also remove confusion and/or poison upon dodging so it can compete with Soothing Ice. The Elementalist’s potential condition removal has been butchered with the changes made to Elemental Attunement so I don’t think its unfair to have SDAR remove more conditions upon dodging.

Master : Soothing Distruption – This will probably be the go to Master trait, its even stronger than ever!

Clensing Wave – I think this trait needs remove 2 conditions upon swapping water to compete with Soothing Distruption when considering the meta Soothing Ice + Soothing Distruption + Clensing Wave combo which will exist post patch. This change could also make up for the loss of condition clear we’ll get since the Arcana line was nerfed.

Aquamancer’s Training – Although this trait seems like it could be useful I see this being the least picked
one of the three master water traits.

Grand Master : Soothing Wave – This trait is being indirectly nerfed if you take into consideration that Elemental
Attunement and Evasive Arcana are both a GM Trait now. I Still think this trait
will be useful.

Powerful Aura – With the amount of auras possible next patch this GM trait is looking more promising,
Although I wish it also maybe added an additional second or so to aura duration.

Bountiful power – I don’t see this trait ever being used, even if it offered 4% dmg for each current
boon, it needs something else besides a damage boost IMO.

I’m not sure how to feel about water, it is still very strong, but I don’t like some of the changes.

Minors: Mist, Ripple all the same good stuff. However, I don’t agree with Aquatic benevolence being a minor GM trait. Basically, you can go dps with waterline, because you get damage modifiers from it and then you’re stuck with useless GM minor trait. Also, dd ele will lose some of its dps due to no Bountiful Power.

Adepts: Soothing Ice will be the pick. Stop, Drop and Roll is just just bad. Piercing shards could be good, but you’ll be stuck with Aquatic Benevolence. Also, I don’t think it should be just water exclusive, that will make the trait not picked up.

Masters: Soothing disruption is very good. Cleansing wave is okay, but it won’t be used since SD. Aquamancer’s training could be good for dps specs, but then again you’ll be stuck with kitteneless GM minor.

Masters: Cleansing water all the way, this is not going to change. No one will take Bountiful power on dd, for dps specs it could be a solution. Powerful aura could be okay, but it needs to be changed from weapon auras to all auras. Sadly, I’m not a fan of the idea of Auramancer.

Overall, the water line is definitely strong. However, mixing dps and support trait is not good since one minor trait is purely dps and forced on eles who would like to play a power spec with trats in water.

Grimreaper.5370:

Earth Trait Changes: http://i.imgur.com/fzRs1qr.jpg

Minors – Stone flesh, Earthen Blast are the same, cool cool, but that
Geomancer’s Defense, holy Kittens!

Adept : Armor of Earth – This trait is alright but I don’t see it being picked
over elemental shielding very often due to its high ICD.

Serrated Stones – This will be the adept trait that is probably least used.

Elemental Shielding – This is a big part of why the Dagger/Dagger meta exists
This trait mixed with Elemental attunement is currently
Godlike. I still see this trait being heavily used post
patch.

Master : Stength of Stone – This will probably be the least used trait.

Rock Solid – A fairly decent trait IMO when combined with Ether renewal,
although I just don’t see this being chosen over
Geomancer’s Training since that trait with focus weapon #4
will remove 3 conditions instantly on a 20s ICD.
If rock solid provided a slightly longer stability (4 seconds?)
I could see this being a very promising trait to pick up.

Geomancer’s Training – This trait is going to put the focus weapon heavily
into the meta. This will probably be the go to Master
trait for most elementalists.

Grand Master : Diamond Skin – This trait makes me chuckle… A very useful trait
Although I hate the god mode passive play this provides
vs full blown condi builds.

Written In Stone – I love the 20% signet ICD reduction addition to this trait.
I think the other two GM traits will usually be chosen over
this one but we will just have to see.

Stone Heart – This trait combined with the protection boon and geomancer’s Defense
in mind will make for a pretty interesting bunker. I think this trait will become
quite popular and require more skill to use optimally than people think.

I think this tree got the most out of the changes, although I’m sad about damage modifiers being gone.

Minors: Stone flesh is okay, I guess. Could have been better. Same with earthen blast. However, geomancer’s defense is good. There will be situations where you would rather have different defense mechanisms, but this is a big buff. I don’t think it makes up for the loss of EA’s, though.

Adepts: Elemental shielding is still the best you can take on dd ele. Serrated Stones are just meh and Earth Embrace will probably be used only by staff eles as it’s been till now.

Masters: Strength of Stone is again a trait for condi eles, I don’t like the idea and definitely won’t be playing it. Rock solid is pretty good, though. I wish they would buff the number of stacks, though. One stack seems a bit weak after the stab changes. Geomancer’s Training looks okay, problem is that it would be a trait fresh air ele would take for the cd reduction on Obsidian flesh and Magnetic Wave, but I’m not sure if fresh air would benefit the most from going into earth.

Grandmasters: This will probably be the line dd eles will take, the traits are pretty good apart from Diamond Skin. I think most eles will take Stone Heart, however I’m afraid it moves the playstyle from dancing through attunements to camp earth. Written in stone is good, too but I feel Stone Heart is a bit better.

Overall, I think the earth tree seems good. They should definitely think about the traits if they can bring more synergy to them. At the moment, it seems like they’re forcing eles to pick 3 attunements (or two + arcana), which they will use and leave the rest.

Grimreaper.5370:

Air Trait changes: http://i.imgur.com/sedmwsr.jpg

Minors : Zypher’s Speed- is still pretty underwhelming and pretty much non existent if you consider the amount of access the class has to swiftness, and now super speed. I’d like to see the value changed to 25% movement speed while in air,
or maybe even completely revamped.

Lightning Strike- as always pretty awesome.

Weak Spot – This trait has only ever given me an additional 3 or 4%
damage at most… I really think this minor trait needs a revamp.

Adept : Zypher’s Boon- Great trait, will still probably be used quite often.

One With Air- This trait mixed with Fresh air could be pretty useful I see this
trait being a potential candidate with a fresh air build.

Ferocious Winds- This may become useful with a scepter/x build, but I don’t see
this trait making it into the meta scene.

Master : Tempest defense – A master trait now?! Wow! The new possibilities! Especially with Lightning Rod in mind!

Aeromancer’s Training – I don’t see this trait ever making it into anyones build as
a master trait, this should be replaced with the
Ferocious winds Adept trait IMO.

Inscription – As they are now, glyphs just rub me the wrong way. (Except for you Glyph
of Elemental Power, I love you <3) This Master trait has nothing on
Tempest Defense. I don’t think we’ll be seeing much of you Inscription.

Grand Master : Bolt to the Heart – This may be a very good trait when it gets changed to +20% DMG below 50% HP. But I still HATE the fact that this trait is competing with Fresh Air… BTTH should be a Master Trait and have current values remain the same.

Fresh Air – I love this trait because it opens up a more versitile playstyle, and I think people will still use this trait regardless of base dmg modifier nerfs to air.

Lightning Rod – I see a lot of potental with this trait when mixed with Tempest defense People are definitely going to be using this one.

I’m gonna say it right away, I’m completely disappointed with the Air tree.

Minors: Horrible. Zephyr’s boon should be just removed. Weak Spot could be moved into its place, then we would have LS as minor master and as GM minor they could bring back Air training. It similar to Burning Rage and definitely would be worth as a Grandmaster minor trait. Removing it completely is just not fair.

Adepts: Zephyr’s boon is meh. If dd ele goes in fire, which has more aura oriented traits, they won’t go air for sure, so this is most likely will be unused. One with air is good, but still doesn’t make up for the loss of Bolt to the heart. Ferocious winds is complete trash if it’s going to be based on healing since we will get no bonus stats from water and I doubt dps eles will take healing power on purpose.

Masters: Inscription is trash, no one cares about gylphs as long as they’re this bad. Tempest defense could be good, Aeromancer’s training is a weaker variation of Air training, I don’t like it. I would rather have flat 10% increase than cca 9% ferocity gain in air + cd reduction.

Grandmasters: Totally disappointed here. Fresh air is mandatory for scepter eles, they lack sustained dps already. Lightning rod probably won’t bring more build variety because cooldowns on cc skills are still too high even with Tempest defense. And no one will take Bolt to the heart in pvp anymore, because you’ll be missing lots DPS without both LR or FA. So they killed one trait.

Overall, the most disappointment here. Air traits seems weaker now, I don’t understand why fresh air needed a nerf. If anything, they should have buffed all weapon skill on scepter because there are so many bad skills, including all AA. That buff to shatterstone in previous balance patch was a giant troll.

Grimreaper.5370:

Hi, I’d like to share with you all which traits (after the big balance patch) I see being feasible and which traits I think may need some work in order to provide this class some diversity when considering trait choices. Note that I’m strictly basing this discussion with SPvP in mind.

My goal in sharing this information is for Arena Net to take notice and consider tweaking traits which in my opinion will have little to no use in the meta. (post future balance patch).

I have spent ~3,000 hours on this class so I would like to believe that my input and advice is a credible source…Like most of you I just want diversity, lets get started!

Fire Trait changes : http://i.imgur.com/HOLoIGu.jpg.

Minors : The minors all look valuable to me, flame barrier sounds very appealing.

Adepts : Burning precision – this trait looks great.
Conjurer – This adept trait could work pretty well with signets. This trait wont be used very often with conjures, Conjures need a lot of work done to them in order for them to ever come close to being apart of the meta.
Power Overwhelming- I have a feeling the other two adepts will always be chosen over this one. Perhaps this trait could be swapped out for something else which won’t compete with the other two adepts.

Master : Cleansing fire – This trait is probably the best choice out of all the Master traits IMO, its very strong with Cantrip mastery in mind. How ever I really do wish this trait needed to be used manually instead of being a passive

One with Fire – I think this is a decent master trait but since Cantrips with their amazing condition cleanse are so useful, I don’t know how often this trait will be used. Merge this trait with Pyromancer’s Training.

Pyromancer’s Training- This is probably going to be the master trait which is least used out of the three. If this was merged with One with Fire I think people would have a hard time deciding between Cleansing Fire and this.

Grand master : Persisting Flames – I’ve always had mixed feelings about this trait… I’ve found it useful when utilizing a Staff weapon but I still don’t feel like this trait is GM worthy. I don’t see this trait being used too often unless some new staff dps meta comes to be. I think it would be nice if Lava font was scratched and something like retaliation was given upon blasting in a fire field.

Pyromancer’s Puissance – I have ALWAYS dreaded this trait with a passion! But perhaps it will be more useful now with the higher duration in mind. My mind is still in a cynical place when thinking about this trait, the might will come easy from other methods, I think the trait should just be sacrificed and replaced with something else that perhaps caters to condition removal, such as “Fire shields now reduce condition duration by an additional 25%” for example. This would synergies well with One with Fire.

Blinding Ashes- All I have to say is good job Anet, this traits going to open up ridiculous potential for 1v1. A 3 second ICD might almost be too good, we’ll just have to wait and see I suppose.

Fire minors: I feel like they’re underwhelming, Flame barrier sounds only good to have when you want your prot to proc, but not sure if dd eles will go in fire tree. Sunspot is just bad, the radius is so tiny it hardly hits anyone. If you’re squishy, you don’t want to be that near to your target. Burning rage is good.

Fire Adepts: Power overwhelming and conjurer are going to be hardly picked, especially after the LH and IB nerf. Burning precision seems ok, but if burning is really going to stack, it will probably be quite weak.

Fire Masters: Not that excited about these, One with Fire isn’t something I would pick, Burning fire is okay I guess, but it’s passive and the synergy with cantrips might as well be burried with the possibility dd ele won’t go fire. Pyromancer’s training is good.

Fire Grandmaster: They’re all good. On the other hand PP could be buffed a bit, it seems a bit weak compared to the two others. Blinding ashes could have its place but I think eles will need some more dps rather than more defense.

Overall, not really excited about fire traits, they’re okay but could have been much better. They seem to have very little synergy apart from Blinding Ashes and Burning Precision.

BlackBeard.2873:

Water is useless for you. You can only share auras from weapon skills, making aura-share really bad. I think the new direction kills your build. Sorry.

They did say that they’re thinking about making it share all auras you gain.

Rocketmist.5436:

Blinding ashes is now GM trait worthy. The 5s icd before was around master tier in power level and this reduction to 3s is an 80% buff. Trait is very, very good now imo.

I suppose so but the fire line still seems a bit weak. The master traits are just bad.

I agree, too. I’m very disappointed they’re taking half of the traits and making them into passive procs. It goes for both offensive and deffensive traits, which is pretty sad.

And if you think Elemental Attunement is bad, because you always get the proc, 20% flat damage reduction in 600 range is way way way worse.

Velimere.7685:

Sorry, Chris, but it looks like Laraley is declining your suggestion for us. Hopefully this will wrap itself up soon enough.

Laraley.7695:

All you do is saying how my argument is invalid and what an idiot I am that I’m considering possible scenarios. All you do is saying how nothing will touch you 1v1. Right.

Rather, you’re stipulating upon convenient situations in which your argument can hold at least some amount of water as opposed to me arguing from a controlled perspective.

Following your own method here, let’s break it down:

Me: Elementalist can easily stick to a Mesmer or a Ranger.
You: Mesmer or Ranger can camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.
Me: Another Mesmer or Ranger can counter-camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.
You: A second Mesmer or Ranger can counter-counter-camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.

…And so on. This kind of arguing goes nowhere and proves absolutely no point whatsoever. For further example, see below for point in case:

Ehecatl.9172:

Also in the very team fight you suggest the ele also has team members. Ideally if there is someone perched and sniping you your allies should respond by pressuring the sniper in return.

That noted, Laraley, as for your inferences concerning me voicing pejorative language against you and being self-important, the irony is that such in and of itself is pejorative and places you above me in the first place (read: self-important); you dishonor yourself in your dishonor of me by putting words in my mouth.

It’s pretty easy. Your argument is built on 1v1 situations. Your precious trait will depend on people on your team to actually be good, gl with that. Never said anything about second mesmer/ranger. 600 range is not that great, fact. I never said it’s useless in the general meaning, I said there will be situations when this trait won’t give you its benefits, which is another fact. The argument was that this trait will be as good as having both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement, that’s just silly.

Velimere.7685:

Chris.5720:

Guys, this thread is supossed to be about the fact that after this patch you won’t be able to use elemental attunement and evasive aracana together so maybe we can get back to the topic?

I’m all for it people can stop throwing arguments of narrow convenience at me that opens them up for such like arguments in return.

All you do is saying how my argument is invalid and what an idiot I am that I’m considering possible scenarios. All you do is saying how nothing will touch you 1v1. Right.

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

Because competent teams focus Celestial specs first, right? The last time that I checked, Berserker specs got focused first. Also, you know an argument is weak when it has to decline into a point of over-specific convenience in order to even attempt dispute in the first place. Let alone the fact that your argument is self-defeating by proper team-fighting conduct (read: break glass first), it’s very exclusive and narrow to begin with. I could just as easily argue the happenstance of having a Mesmer or a Ranger on one team to peel said Mesmer or Ranger on the other team.

Or you know, you just play the game and see how things are in ranked/unranked when you don’t queue with full team.

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

First of all, you’re looking at this from a 1v1 point of view. If dd ele’s role will still be a point holder, there’s nothing the ele can do about rangers/mesmers doing damage from afar/ledges/roofs. Also, mesmer is one of the best kiters in the game and a good one will be able to make your gap closers useless.

The point of the Celestial D/D Elementalist isn’t just point-holding, though. Like the Celestial Rifle Engineer and the Celestial Shoutbow Warrior, you do a little bit of everything as the ultimate PvP hybrid spec… That’s kind of the point.

Also, with a 24-second recharge on Blink and having to camp staff for multiple Phase Retreats in no way allows a Mesmer to easily kill you. Being on afar ledges and roofs means that a Mesmer or Ranger isn’t on point, and if it’s just you and him, you don’t have to be either until he decides to drop down. I’m not seeing any real logic in your reasoning here…

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

I think they will. But the trait will be still unused, at least in pvp.

I don’t think condi ele will be much more viable than it is now. Can’t say I’m unhappy about that, though.

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

That is just a potential for 20% damage reduction. Mesmers and rangers will be able to completely bypass that. Compared to other classes, ele got nothing.

Given the fact of how easy it is to gap-close and stay within melee range of Mesmers and Rangers as a Celestial D/D Elementalist, I honestly don’t see your point. At most, they can break that 600 range qualifier for a few seconds for a breather if nothing else before you close the gap again given competent and equal skill on both ends. Rather, I only see this as a problem if you’re being outplayed by a better player in which case the fact of the matter is a given.

First of all, you’re looking at this from a 1v1 point of view. If dd ele’s role will still be a point holder, there’s nothing the ele can do about rangers/mesmers doing damage from afar/ledges/roofs. Also, mesmer is one of the best kiters in the game and a good one will be able to make your gap closers useless.

Jekkt.6045:

but hey you get the +100% condi duration gm trait, most creative trait ever^^

when they said necro will get the 2nd biggest overhaul i was kinda interested but what they showed was pretty disappointing. nothing is set in stone though so maybe now is the time to give all your feedback (maybe best in the necro forum) and hope that the gee guy will listen.

another factor is how good the elite specialisation will be.

Yeah, that trait is GREA…oh wait, you would have to give up Terror.

Velimere.7685:

the krytan assassin.9235:

Elemental Attunement is just a must for D/D builds, evasive arcana is a big loss, but won’t destroy the class.

That is correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

To compensate for the surviveability lost taking 6 in earth would be the only viable option, so 00666 RIP build diversity.

That is also correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Also compared to other classes the ele becomes alot weaker by seeing the all powerful traits of other professions.

This is however incorrect. A flat 20% damage-reduction more than negates the power-creep other classes will experience and will further solidify Celestial D/D into the meta.

Furthermore, even if Elementalists could take both Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana, 00666 Celestial D/D would still be the top PvP spec outshining all other Elementalist specs regardless just because of that flat 20% damage-reduction.

That said, I’m in no way advocating both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement being Grandmaster traits. It’s my personal opinion that Elemental Contingency should be merged into Elemental Attunement with Evasive Arcana replacing Elemental Contingency as a Master trait.

That is just a potential for 20% damage reduction. Mesmers and rangers will be able to completely bypass that. Compared to other classes, ele got nothing.

Jekkt.6045:

you will go 06660 with fresh air with maybe energy sigil instead of fire to make up for the vigour.

shielding in earth, reduced earth cooldown for 40s cd invul and the no crit trait.

soothing ice in water, cleansing wave and either cleansing water (scep 3 in water gives regen) or the new 2% dmg per boon trait depending on how many boons you have with this build.

one with air (is 3s now instead of 1s) which will be huge for kiting, tempest defense which is a counter burst and very good against sleight of hand steal, and fresh air ofc.

the build will lose damage, that’s for sure, but gains a lot more survivability. idk if i like it or not, will have to test.

Yeah, but with that you might as well play dd. It wouldn’t be so bad if all your survability buff wasn’t mitigated by power creep of thieves and mesmers.

Nope, most devs play engis. It cannot be possible they would have a natural counter.

leman.7682:

Don’t worry, it’s good as long as the thief and his buddy engie are having fun.

Now, quoting Peters, just skip the necromancer discussion, because everyone hates them.

Man, that was so sad.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Gryph.8237:

Gates, fogive my lack of faith in anet right now.

I fully understand why you’re worried, but you have to understand the situation we’re in. They’re working on an expansion and they’re given free reign to fully rework everything in every single class. They’ve never really had that chance as the motto of the company was “very little changes over long times”. They are HEAVILY looking for your feedback and the information I send them has had a large affect on what they’ve done. Did you know that the reason they changed Foot in the Grave to a stunbreak was because of the forums? Turret engi nerf? Forums.

If players post me some good feedback and suggestions, it’ll get to the devs and things will change. Watch.

So are you the reason why ele got nerfed so much?

leman.7682:

Gryph.8237:

Anet = bias. It is so clear which classes receive attention and what classes they laugh at. Gw2 has become a placeholder for me until another mmo comes out that lacks this juvenile bias. Terrible and unprofessional devs.

Unfortunately, I have to agree. Seeing Davis and Peters joke about necros and rangers on every possibility kind of show their professionalism or lack thereof.

And seeing as many things they stated were false, therefore not knowing the traits fully, makes me worried about the balance.

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

No, it’s you who doesn’t realize how much you lose by this. Elemental Attunement had synergy with lots traits, which now will be gone. Enjoy not getting critically hit when in earth but melting to condis.

Lolololololol. My condi cleanses will actually be way better than ever. If you truly cannot see how strong the builds will be, then maybe ele isn’t for you. Me and a few guildies already can see how strong the new 00666 ele will be. I’m sorry, but it might be best for you to be one of those folks that waits until the patch hits and hop on the new meta train when someone figures it out for you and posts a build on metabattle.

Strongly recommend you stop whining until the patch actually hits.

Can you elaborate how your condi removal will be stronger? If you don’t take Elemenetal Attuenment, you lose a 9 sec condi removal. If you don’t take Evasive arcana, you lose a 9 sec condi removal. There is no doubt there will be higher ICD on Soothing wave, another loss of a condi removal. With earth, you can only take a diamond skin to affect your condi removal, which the worst choice of those.

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

No, it’s you who doesn’t realize how much you lose by this. Elemental Attunement had synergy with lots traits, which now will be gone. Enjoy not getting critically hit when in earth but melting to condis.

Impact.2780:

Are you serious? With taking 20% less damage from foes within 600 range as a minor trait in earth, you’re complaining that you can’t get elemental attunement with evasive arcana anymore? 0/0/6/6/6 would be the new D/D, and if anything it’ll be tankier than it was with elemental attunement, with a safe stomp on earth attunement, and entering earth will give you immunity to critical hits and therefore immunity to fire/air sigil procs, instead of 6s protection.

6/6/6/0/0 Will be the new fresh air, and it will be viable. You’ll have a safe stomp, condi cleanses from passive trait in fire and utilities, 20% damage reduction from foes within 600 range, which stacks with protection from external sources. Tanky like a medi guard.

And of course, let’s not forget the balance changes are in the wake of elite specializations that we have not yet seen.

Edit: Oh yeah, and because you can take elemental contingency as a master trait now, you’ll still be able to swap to earth to get protection for incoming burst. It’ll just be applied on the first hit instead of on attunement. It’ll also be able to stack with the 20% from geomancer’s defence for a total of 59.6% reduced incoming damage. Nerf and power creep indeed? Pfft!

You probably don’t realize how much fresh air ele loses by not going arcana at all and taking suboptimal traits in fire.

1. Condi cleanse on 10 second cooldown in water, exchanged for 40 second cooldown passive cleanse that might as well remove conditions you don’t need to be removed, promoting passive play.
2. Vigor.
3. Protection, regeneration, swiftness on attunement swap. Protection is crucial for such a squishy build. (EC is bad because you have to get hit, same as they told memsers ‘’we don’t want you to get hit to have boons procs.)’’
4. Fury > loss in dps
5. Weakness in air, which is again crucial to such a squishy build.
6. One access to blind.
7. Bolt to the heart.
8. Damage loss due to nerf to Air Training.

You gain.

1. Flame barrier (lol), Sunspot, Burning rage > no crazy buffs there
2. Burning on crit (1 sec on 2 sec cooldown)
3. Three condi cleanse on 40 sec cd.
4. Blinding ashes maybe? Not such a good trait compared to loss of everything in Arcana.
5. Superspeed (3 sec on air), which is okay but doesn’t help with sustained dps.
6. Damage loss from major traits in Air.
7. Toughness in earth, 20% dmg reduction in 600 range, which mesmers and rangers will completely ignore.
8. Armour of earth (meh), earth skills cd reduced, soft cc duration reduced.
9. I don’t know about GM traits in earth. They’re not kinda appealing, I’m not saying they’re all bad but they promote passive play again.

These things are important to fresh air, which won’t be able to compete with the new buffed versions of mesmer and thief. The DPS loss is significant and some buffs in survability won’t change that. Where is your major power creep? Oh yeah, wrong class. Scepter is a bad weapon and needed rework since day one, but they just don’t bother with ele anymore.

Exciton.8942:

They mentioned in the stream that they want to push mesmer into more of a high skill level profession. So no more passive clone death.

I guess the new easier way to mesmer will be condie shatter. If you really want to benefit from the buffs, you kinda have to go into the interrupt regime now.

While introducing crazy passive triats (Confusion on crit says hi, burn burn burn burn burn guards say hi, fire auras ((oh god why)) on eles say hi).

Anyways, mesmer got buffed tons. Along with thief probably the most, you should be happy you didn’t get nerfed as ele or basically nothing as necro.

You get two fears in downstate, I call that op!

Zoso.8279:

Xiahou Mao.9701:

I hope everyone complaining about how OP Engi Moas are is aware that any Engineer packing this will be lacking Supply Crate. You know, the elite skill they currently have that does a longer AoE stun than this Moa effect and puts a bunch of turrets on the field on top of that…

True but Moa removes you from any form your in and removes all your minions if you play MM. Supply crate only stuns you.

Well, supply crate cc’s you multiple times if you have the knockback on turrets (and most engis do). So it’s like aoe longer duration cc or multiple aoe cc + heal + damage. Such horrible elites, really.

Malchior.5042:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

You guys realise that since specialisations make you go fully in each trait line then the rank of the trait does not matter anymore? When you spec into air you get access to all traits at once, regardless of master or grand master rank, and if you don’t spec into air then you are completely denied access to these traits. Ranks are cosmetic now.

Exactly this.

The purpose of the ranks of traits is just to create compelling decisions when making your build.

You can take Bolt to the Heart, but you lose the ability to be in Air attunement as often for your single-target burst damage, so you have to find that sustained damage and utility elsewhere.

You can take Fresh Air, but you lose the large spike damage from Bolt to the Heart, so while you continue to have your sustained Air Attunement, you must look elsewhere for a high damage source, or make use of some of the new strengths of Air.

Some builds will be reduced in power. Some builds will increase in power. A TON of brand new builds will surface.

It’s all about making interesting and compelling choices when crafting a build, so a single build can’t have “everything.” By having choices, the existence of skill, counter-play, preference, and synergy is created.

It’s not. Fresh air lacks sustained DPS already, taking this trait from them is not fair and you can’t gain any major dps buffs from other traits because there are none. Also, losing either Elemental Attunement or Evasive Arcana hurts Fresh air survability, they’re not creating more interesting choices, they’re creating forced choices because there will be nothing better to pick

Velimere.7685:

Nikkinella.8254:

isn’t that the point of them changing traits to begin with? Ya know, build diversity? I shouldn’t be forced to take certain traitlines. Atleast if they left evasive arcana and elemental attunement as is, we would have options. That’s all I want, options. With these changes we’re just going to be pidgeonholed even more than we are now. yay for diversity in builds for every class……unless you’re an elementalist. Sorry! you aren’t allowed to have build diversity as an ele. use the same spec you’ve been using since launch or be ineffective. so instead of 0/0/2/6/6 we now get to use 0/0/6/6/6! wow, so revolutionary! such an amazing change, so much diversity!

Honestly, I only play Celestial D/D in PvP (it’s the only thing I actually enjoy playing there), and losing Evasive Arcana while gaining Geomancer’s Defense is hands-down a massive buff. That said, with Blasting Staff becoming baseline, I might touch my Elementalist in PvE again… then again, maybe not. Pre-stacking might in dungeons always feels like one big chore for me whereas pulling it off in PvP just comes from proper positioning during skill rotations.

Yea, you only lose defense AND offense and gain completely useless major traits in arcana. Such a buff.

Nikkinella.8254:

Velimere.7685:

Nikkinella.8254:

I really wanted to spec into air, fire, and arcane as d/d ele. wont be able to if I cant take elemental attunement and evasive arcana together. i’d never survive anything without the protection, regen, and dodge heal.

That’s spreading your defense way too thin to begin with. Any Elementalist spec that isn’t Earth/Water/Arcane will lose to any Celestial D/D spec that is. Forgoing not one but two of those defensive trait lines is just not competitive.

isn’t that the point of them changing traits to begin with? Ya know, build diversity? I shouldn’t be forced to take certain traitlines. Atleast if they left evasive arcana and elemental attunement as is, we would have options. That’s all I want, options. With these changes we’re just going to be pidgeonholed even more than we are now. yay for diversity in builds for every class……unless you’re an elementalist. Sorry! you aren’t allowed to have build diversity as an ele. use the same spec you’ve been using since launch or be ineffective. so instead of 0/0/2/6/6 we now get to use 0/0/6/6/6! wow, so revolutionary! such an amazing change, so much diversity!

And don’t forget now you shouldn’t even use fresh air because apparently it was too unviable, so they nerfed it more.

Muchacho.2390:

Gryph.8237:

They screwed condi necros, and are very likely laughing it off

Yepp, i just realised that they removed the 50% fear duration trait… So unless it became baseline, terror was nerfed pretty hard.

They did not.

Gryph.8237:

They screwed condi necros, and are very likely laughing it off

As long as engis are getting buffs, right.

Xcorpdog.2840:

Laraley.7695:

Devildoc.6721:

Laraley.7695:

With all the PS warriors around and prestacking…people will just run staff.

and people do that, they are both viable alternatives, if your group has 2 warriors 1 runs gs dps build, the other runs ps build, if your group has 2 eles 1 runs staff, the other runs scepter/focus LH, if you have 2 of each well.. you’ll figure it out but it is nice to have 2 meta builds per class in that situation so there’s options, not a lot of classes have multiple meta builds currently.

Change to LH may remove one of Ele’s meta builds. D/F is decent, but it’d probably just be better to have 2 staff eles than have a D/F.

SF is just so weak, without LH it will be unvaible really. Same with DF. If they really lose their conjures, no one will run it.

Don’t forget that D/f is losing 2 10% modifiers and Bolt to the heart.

Yeah, basically Air and Arcana got kittened over.

Interesting. Anyways, fresh air ele in pvp did get nerfed, so I suppose the same but less severe nerf will show in pve, too.

There are people running fresh air in pve?

Devildoc.6721:

Laraley.7695:

With all the PS warriors around and prestacking…people will just run staff.

and people do that, they are both viable alternatives, if your group has 2 warriors 1 runs gs dps build, the other runs ps build, if your group has 2 eles 1 runs staff, the other runs scepter/focus LH, if you have 2 of each well.. you’ll figure it out but it is nice to have 2 meta builds per class in that situation so there’s options, not a lot of classes have multiple meta builds currently.

Change to LH may remove one of Ele’s meta builds. D/F is decent, but it’d probably just be better to have 2 staff eles than have a D/F.

SF is just so weak, without LH it will be unvaible really. Same with DF. If they really lose their conjures, no one will run it.

Velimere.7685:

This is just their way of telling (forcing) you to not use Conjure skills.

No, this is just their way of telling (forcing) not to play ele

Nikkinella.8254:

That’s depressing. I really wanted to spec into air, fire, and arcane as d/d ele. wont be able to if I cant take elemental attunement and evasive arcana together. i’d never survive anything without the protection, regen, and dodge heal.

Pretty sure dd ele will have to go earth, water and arcana just to survive. It would be cool if we got more build diversity but instead we got one build removed.

Jekkt.6045:

they also removed air training (+10% in air) and added +150 ferocity (10% crit dmg) to aeromancer training. but 100% a +10%dmg increase is better than a 100% +10%critdmg increase :/. you also won’t be taking this over tempest defense so without this and bolt to the heart the build will suffer from damage loss which the water gm won’t be able to make up for either.

Yeah, I didn’t notice that one when watching it, but you’re right. The damage loss is pretty significant. It feels like fresh air got nerfed the most, when it needed the exact opposite. I don’t even know what went through their heads, when they thought about this.

With all the PS warriors around and prestacking…people will just run staff.

Kodiak.3281:

As they said the main way to look as this is you’re also gaining effectively gaining 4 more traits to spend.

Assuming a xxx66 build currently, you’re losing either Elemental Attunement or Evasive Arcana. These are pretty big changes. However you also have to consider the fact that instead of 2 fire, 2 air or 2 earth (usually air or earth) you’re now getting 6 in these lines. 6 Earth is pretty kitten ed powerful in terms of survivability and getting full Air not only still potentially gives you Bolt to the Heart still but many other benefits as well now that we lacked before (such as Tempest Defense Major!)

I think the real question is going to be how they handle stats. Sure everyone is getting 1000 base stats from 926 but 00266 D/D Cele Ele relied a bit on 300 extra Healing/Vit and that 30% boon up time. Even with a flat bump to stats on Cele amulet there’s really no way to mix-match stats to get the same results since amulets simply are. We’ll have to wait and see what they do with stats on equipment (such as Amulets) to really see what’s going to go down there.

Saying ele is getting another full tree is invalid as all other classes are getting that + they got major buffs.

Nikkinella.8254:

affects on dodge aren’t inherent to any class. would you want Mesmer to have clone on dodge naturally or thief with caltrops on dodge naturally? I for one would much rather have elemental attunement inherent to the class and have to pick the on dodge traits.

I agree with Elemental Attunement, it’s pretty much the same as Illusionary Persona and that will be a baseline.

Coldtart.4785:

Ether renewal is buffed by the fact that you can now run rock solid without mucking anything else up. It’s also gaining a skill category so you can potentially trait it as well.

2 sec stab vs 3 1/2 cast time.

Neko.9021:

I think Ele is still going to have quite a bit of survivability. On a standard D/D Build, you could have:

• Geomancer’s Defense – 20% less damage while within 600 range (Earth Minor)
• Elemental Shielding – Prot on Aura (Earth Major)
• Soothing Ice – Gain Regen and Frost Aura when you are critically hit (Water Major)
• Cleansing Wave – Cleanse Condi on Water Attune (Water Major)
• Cleansing Water- Cleanse Condi when gaining Regen (Water Major)
• Elemental Contingency – Retal/Fury/Protection/Vigor when hit in Fire/Air/Water/Earth (Arcana Major)

• Evasive Arcana!

and

• Soothing Mist and Healing Ripple of course

The only problem is Arcana major sucks. Elemental Contigency is far worse than EA.

Patchi.9061:

The more you bring to the table with all the changes to the traits the more the table requires CLEANING. Are we gonna get more frequent minor balance patches to balance out the soon-to-be-discovered unbalances in what you are going to bring up in the future? (That has been the case for the past 3 years…)

Lol, ofc we’re not. Don’t be silly. There will be unviable and op classes for a year before they make unvaible and break others.

Nikkinella.8254:

It seems like D/D ele will be getting a huge nerf. Its mainly the extra heal i’ll miss from EA though. Maybe I can throw on a renewal sigil to make up for that and still take elemental attunement, either that or i’ll be forced to take elemental contingency and EA.

The master traits in arcana seem really horrible though. hopefully they’ll change their mind and move elemental attunement down to master. Didn’t they say at one point in the past they considered making it baseline since it was so key to all ele builds? howd they go from that to making it a gm trait? It would have been much better to make elemental attunement baseline but only affect the ele and have the trait make it also affect allies. that’s how I would have changed it anyway.

On the plus side, it seems like staff might become viable for roaming solo with some of the changes. all the traits in earth to make you super survivable against thieves, along with all the air traits and lightning rod. i’ll definitely play around with it a bit.

No, because it’s crucial, you have to choose. If you play ele anyway. Shoutouts to balance team.

Ignavia.7420:

MasterMc.7543:

Coldtart.4785:

Run earth, water and arcane and enjoy being able to reduce any zerker’s dps down to zero!!! every time you pop earth attune.

And also do no dps your self as almost all earth skills are low dps.

It could still be a great bunker build for PvP together with Ether Renewal and Melandru runes (if they exist in PvP) to deal with condis.

It’s pretty hard to pull ER off in pvp, everyone decent will interrupt it and ele has too high cooldown stability skills to cover it.

Melandru runes exist in pvp, yeah. But then again, it’s not like ele needed another variation of a dd ele build.

Supreme.3164:

Laraley.7695:

Supreme.3164:

ResJudicator.7916:

I assume they’ll tweak the numbers, especially on bolt to the heart. Although I have a hard time seeing it compete with either fresh air or lightning rod unless both the bonus damage and trigger points are substantially improved.

Making eles choose between evasive arcana and elemental attunement does sound like a pretty big nerf. I think the motivating fear was water/earth/arcana celestial eles becoming too strong, but I think that fear is mitigated by all the damage buffs the other classes are getting (either via improved damage/condi traits, or improved CD baseline effects and traits).

It was confirmed that they will change the number of Bolt to heart, the OP is clearly overeacting

Yeah, I missed that if that’s ture. Doesn’t change the fact fresh air ele cannot take the trait anymore, so it will be pretty much unused.

The trait will be buffed to create a playstyle, let’s say they change the numbers to something like : “33% dmg+ at 50% HP of the enemy”, possibly you can use in combination with bountiful GM in water and pyromancer puissance.

If you want an air burst type then you have tempest+lightning rod, but I guess you don’t even realize the full implication yet and the dmg this combo will bring, think of this combo used d/f + earth line…insane

For fresh air you will have to use something else…it’s not the end of the world, they want to create build diversity, kill 3-4 builds to create 10+…a fair trade off

They’re not creating 10+ more builds. I doubt that tempest + LR will be better than fresh air because of high cooldowns on cc skills. It will all depend on the number of stunbreaks a person has and pretty much all passive buffs, which should be avoided. Even if you could pull of the cc combo, what will you do to follow? Hope to hit Dragon’s tooth or your only burst skill (that is actually possible to hit more than 30%), Phoenix? Without Fresh air you’re going to be stuck AA in fire, which is pretty bad, too. Also you’re going to be missing the damage from Lightning Strike because you won’t be able to use it as often as in Fresh air + AA in air.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Laraley.7695:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

No information on any reduction to attunement swapping cooldown from arcana btw, it is almost as if it slipped out of their mind

Didn’t they say something about 8 seconds when you have Arcana?

Attunement swapping cooldown, not attunement cooldown

Ah sorry.