Guild Wars 2

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Laraley.7695:

2. Matching two or more of the same class into the same team against a team who has two or more of a different class. Wouldn’t be better to put one in each team? And no, I’m not talking about cases when people queue up together while being on the same class.

Third one could be explained by low population, but not the other two.

Second one can be explained perfectly fine with low population. If you have a new ele + a pro ele vs 2 average guards, it’s fairer to put the 2 eles on the same team than to screw up the skill level difference.

Yeah, but there aren’t only 4 people in the queue. I’m pretty sure it could be worked around differently than stacking classes on teams. Also, if this goes on the population will stay low. It’s been worse and worse.

Haha.

In all seriousness, I can’t believe the dailies are still in the game despite having a post on forums about everyone hating it almost every day.

Can someone explain to me why matchmaking does as follows:

1. Matching groups of 2 and 3 people into the same team against team of pugs. Wouldnt 3 11 and 2 11 be much more balanced?

2. Matching two or more of the same class into the same team against a team who has two or more of a different class. Wouldn’t be better to put one in each team? And no, I’m not talking about cases when people queue up together while being on the same class.

3. Matching experienced people with unexperienced players.

Third one could be explained by low population, but not the other two. This seems to happen very often. It makes me feel like there’s something seriously wrong with the matchmaking, which is not affected by players’ behaviour. My question is why this happens.

dragonrage.8921:

The engineer was introduced as part of the game originally deal with it it doesn’t fit into the “meta” sometimes. Have you tried playing one after the turret nerf? its really not that easy seriously. Before you kitten wine and moan play one successfully and then you have the right to complain. I don’t like Thieves but, i realized after really tying to play one they take a considerable amount of skill to play well and even survive. The same with fresh air eles they are pure cheese but they do take a good amount of skill to play well. Adapt to what comes in front of you and think for yourself don’t let the “meta” do it for you.

Lol, there is a difference between something being hard to play and something being too strong, which engi is at the moment. You deal with it.

dragonrage.8921:

People people just shut up and look at how your sounding. Bark, bark, whine, moan, meta, meta, meta, meta I got beat by another player in pvp and i refuse to look elsewhere than the meta for answers. Can you please nerfs engineers to oblivian since I dont like them to start with in pvp so I can be “winner” by befault without looking outside the meta and playing and learning my class. All i want to play is a thief, elementalist, guardian, warrior and mesmer, know what just delete all other classes but those and well be good.

The engineer is here to stay deal with it. And do try looking around at other solutions besides what some college math professor has come up with you might find the answers right under your nose. Anet dosent have to ultranerf everything just because you want to be a “winner” by default.

Ofc, because engi is the winner by default.

Hm, let’s think about it…
.
.
.
No.

Jelzouki.4128:

I think engis are fine as is but there slick shoes need to be nerfed. I like the idea of the circles disappearing once they are stepped on.

Engis are fine?

What?

Are we playing the same game?

This usually happens when the game loses connection. If it’s on your side, the only thing that comes to mind…fix your connection?

Baconplease.1657:

@Kharr, I have lots of cond removal on my mesmer… they also have alot of Active defencewhich is frankly alot better then passive defence such as Feedback, Distortion, reflects, Stealth. Do I need to play a shutdown mesmer just to deal with other mesmers lol -.-

No clue what you’re playing but shatter mesmer has basically no condi removal.

Honestly, it’s about practice. Mesmers can be a bit difficult to deal with, but hardly unbeatable. You need to learn their attacks and dodge them right. Letting them hit you with attacks like Mirror Blade, Illusionary Berserker, Mind Wrack…is really a bad idea. These attacks have very obvious animation and are easy to dodge. It’s also quite important to learn how to dodge Illurionary Leap. Don’t let the mesmer free cast gs AA on you, so pilars and LOS is a good thing.

Then you need to play your class right, not waste burst when they’re invulnerable for example.

Sadrien.3470:

azel, air isn’t really being nerfed because, unless you save your burst until the very end bolt to the heart is only 20/3=6.6% damage increase. ( The 5% less damage in air is much more noticeable except when firegrabbing foes)

Losing Bolt to the heart and Air training is a nerf to me. It’s not like ele has some great sustained damage.

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

Maybe it’s better you cannot see it as it gives you basically no information on how you performed in combat.

They would have to rework the whole scoreboard for it to be meaninful. I would like to know the numbers of deaths for example.

Actually it kinda does, rest of the team scored 100 and you scored 10? That means you either bunked home the whole game or played like crap

This is probably like the only case when it says something. However, I’ve seen people saying that they better than someone else on their team just because they have higher score. It’s not always true, sometimes people with lower score are more beneficial to the team than people with higher score. For example, on forest someone who just goes for NPC will have a pretty high score, but leave his team 4v5 on map and they will might lose.

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Seriously, condi necro were pushed out by DD ele and shoutheal.

hint: power necro has even less survive

That would be correct if the spec was actually viable, which is really not. Also, the rise of medguards was rather why people stopped playing it.

Nos specifically said in the stream that reason why condi necro is not viable, because there’s too many condi cleanse and it has no down cleave damage

Which I agree with. However, if condi necro wasn’t in such a bad place, I doubt it would be completely pushed out of meta.

Maybe it’s better you cannot see it as it gives you basically no information on how you performed in combat.

They would have to rework the whole scoreboard for it to be meaninful. I would like to know the numbers of deaths for example.

scerevisiae.1972:

are you going to cover the EAtt-as-GM fiasco?

It is planned, yes.

Dawdler.8521:

As soon as everyone go “I’m ready”, the match begins.

Does that happen in every game? No.
Does it happen in every 5th game? No.
Does it happen in every 10th game? kitten no.

In this case its the players that are being kittened and not using the system as it was intended. Hence, you get a kittenload of dead time.

I would say people forget about it, it’s really not very visible. If it was a giant button in the middle of your screen, I’m pretty sure it would happen every few games.

Patchi.9061:

Hi Anet and PvP community,

Some concerns might be towards rangers and necros but they are already getting buffed after patch!

wat

pdavis.8031:

brannigan.9831:

I thought dishonor was disabled. Why do you think we have all these dopes leaving matches. They aren’t getting punished outside of a loss.

Oh yeah thats right.
Wasn’t it disabled while they test the MMR system or something?

And it never came back. It’s been almost half a year.

Julian.2971:

Laraley.7695:

Plague.5329:

I might agree if there was a 10 match limit like in RA, or if when you lose you get booted out, like in RA, or if leaving the match was a little easier. Best solution is, do not do 8v8. It’s currently a bit of a mess.

Dafq I just read? 8v8? Is this thread about hotjoin? You know people can leave there, I’m quite sure this is ranked/unranked.

If losing would give you a penalty and you wouldn’t be able to play the queue time would go higher and it would be just bad.

See the date of the post m8.
For what we know Plague.5329 could be already dead and decomposed right now.

Oh, lol. Literally thought this was a new thread, my bad.

But I like your optimism.

My question is how can you play with such a bit UI?

Plague.5329:

I might agree if there was a 10 match limit like in RA, or if when you lose you get booted out, like in RA, or if leaving the match was a little easier. Best solution is, do not do 8v8. It’s currently a bit of a mess.

Dafq I just read? 8v8? Is this thread about hotjoin? You know people can leave there, I’m quite sure this is ranked/unranked.

If losing would give you a penalty and you wouldn’t be able to play the queue time would go higher and it would be just bad.

choucs.4507:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Seriously, condi necro were pushed out by DD ele and shoutheal.

hint: power necro has even less survive

That would be correct if the spec was actually viable, which is really not. Also, the rise of medguards was rather why people stopped playing it.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Laraley.7695:

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

I’ve seen plenty of condi-necromancers, in WvW with perplex runes and 100% longer conditions while boasting ~1500 condition damage and Corrupt Boon that can practically 1-shot you depending on your setup.

Dhuumfire meta was Guild Wars 2 worst meta, we can all agree blowing up people with conditions isn’t fun, rewarding auto attacks or trait/sigil procs instead of timing skills well.

Cool stuff, the only problem is that this was about pvp. Almost no one runs a condition necro in pvp anymore due to their poor survability. However, terromancers is actually quite difficult to play unlike power necro, which is the spec that does most damage on AA. So I’m sorry but your argument isn’t valid in pvp. I don’t know about wvw, I don’t play that.

Ithilwen.1529:

If I’m not mistaken, unblockable also cannot be reflected. The wiki doesn’t seem to specifically say. Still, an attack that can’t be blocked would also logically not be able to be reflected.

-edit- The attack was reflected and in the process produced a clone of the Ele. So there are really two bugs here; Unblockable attack reflected and clone produced.

The game seems to have thought the ele was a mesmer, since he was shooting a [mirror blade] ( by reflecting it.) That should never happen. So the clone production is likely triggered by firing a [mirror blade] which is what the ele did, in effect.

Yes, you’re right about unblockable attacks not being reflectable. However, was the whole attack reflected? So the damage AND the clone creation?

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Yeah, I was wondering what exactly he reflected since Mirror blade wasn’t blockable, therefore you couldn’t reflect it. If he indeed reflected it, then it must be a bug.

Its an old bug and it’s tied to Magnetic Aura and not Mirror Blade. You can even create Lich clones by sharing the aura with a Necro if I recall correctly.

Well, the point is that Mirror blade isn’t blockable, so it shouldn’t reflect.

Just the projectile. The clone spawn is probably a separate function.

I guess OP needs to clarify that, but yeah that would make sense.

Aktium.9506:

Laraley.7695:

Yeah, I was wondering what exactly he reflected since Mirror blade wasn’t blockable, therefore you couldn’t reflect it. If he indeed reflected it, then it must be a bug.

Its an old bug and it’s tied to Magnetic Aura and not Mirror Blade. You can even create Lich clones by sharing the aura with a Necro if I recall correctly.

Well, the point is that Mirror blade isn’t blockable, so it shouldn’t reflect.

Yeah, I was wondering what exactly he reflected since Mirror blade wasn’t blockable, therefore you couldn’t reflect it. If he indeed reflected it, then it must be a bug.

Sorel.4870:

WhiteCrow.5310:

Cynz.9437:

P.S. don’t bring “omg necros counter engis” that was true before celestial, now even necros get crapped on by engis tnks to celestial amy/CCs

Confirming this. I remember the days of fighting Engis in a respectable battle, perhaps with an advantage as a Necro. Now I’m literally hunted by them along with Thieves.

Source: I main Necro.

Condi necro still destroys engineers (even if the celestial build survives a little longer). But condi necros were pushed out of the meta by eles and shout warriors, and the “meta” power necro build is ridiculously weak in comparison. That’s one of the main reasons engineers are so powerful now: nobody plays condi anymore.

Seriously? Condi necros were pushed out of meta by dd eles and shoutbows?

Or how about: Condi necros have so little self survability and the class is not in a very good spot and that’s why no one actually plays it?

When it comes to engi, there are things that deserved a nerf long time ago. However, dd ele was the only spec out of the cele meta that got touched. Nothing ever was done about IP, Slick Shoes, Overcharged shot…people were asking for these things to be adjuted, but it never happened. Cele engi and Shoutbow are one of the best specs in game atm while dd ele is falling out of the meta.

Yeah, it’s definitely the most op build in game and that’s why it’s being pushed out of meta.

1. Battle of Kyhlo
2. Legacy of Foefire
3. Temple of Silent Storm
.
.
.
.
.
4. Skyhammer
5. Spirit Watch
6. Courtyard
7. Forest of Niflhel (Just because I have very deep hate for this map, can’t stand it and would rather play Skyhammer than this.)

Supreme.3164:

ArthurDent.9538:

Supreme.3164:

D/D doesn’t hold up anymore in this meta, so people must adapt..or they can move to greener( in their eyes) pastures

That is what top level teams are already doing and this change will just secure it. All eles will either re-roll shoutbow for support, cele engi for jack of all trades, or theif/mesmer for burst. Yay balanced.

D/D ele may go in Conquest, but there is still Stronghold so who knows but for the rest as I’ve explained, d/d build is getting phased out, it’s time for a new build, something that may well come with the new system, something we don’t know yet…what we can be sure of is that EA+Evasive is too strong and needs to go, eles must gain another form of mechanic defining mechanism, this is for the best of everybody, if you support people in this thread ..you support the idea of ele being pigeonholed in water/arcana

Don’t root for EA…this is not the whole picture, there are many factors people in this thread are not taking in consideration, one would be: revenant , do a small research on the new class and you’ll realize why EA baseline is really a bad idea, and this is only part of the problems that would come in case EA becomes baseline

D/D is the strongest build ele has for pvp at the moment, nerfing it so much no one will use it is not the solution. It won’t magically make other builds viable, you should really stop looking at it like this. Do you know what happened the last time ele was nerfed like this? Yes, no one played it for months till they buffed it again. I can’t believe someone who says that he cares about the profession says the build should be pushed out of meta.

Ele has the lower hp and armour and it does depends on boons and it will be like this unless they completely revamp the profession. It’s exactly how ele has been played till now and I don’t understand why they should get rid of that. Self sustain is not the problem d/d ele is facing. It’s not even the problem fresh air has. I’m gonna say this once again, sustain is fine, but due to being so squishy and depeneding on long cooldowns with having nothing more to offer to team, ele will disappear from pvp if they go on with this change and won’t make tempest at least as good as normal changes to thieves/mesmers.

Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement could be a bit too strong in the old system. However, in the new system all proferssions apart from ele and necro are getting huge buffs. It’s far away from being too strong when mesmers are getting so many baseline stuff and thieves can play both currect dp builds in one after the change.

You basically said no reason why having both would be bad apart from it being too strong (it is not) and wanting to have a different spec to play and I explained why that’s a bad idea above.

I hope not. And I hope it won’t be sword but I think it will.

Sadrien.3470:

Not all builds require team support and there are ways to get more out of the new traits through stuns, defensive aura share, and I’m typing on a kindle with internet cutting me off so sry if my responses do not make tons of sense. they may not be what was hoped for, but ele was already meta and the guardian traits aren’t that impressive either.

No, not all builds require team support, but there is literally no reason to take a tanky ele over a shoutbow.

Sadrien.3470:

Well, for starters there are some very powerful ( by appearances ) aura builds. you can still maintain your high protection uptime on the meta spec equivalent, you were already extremely strong, need I list more? This is in terms of cele d/d and d/f meta.

Seeing as the protection is only selfish doesn’t change anything. No one asked for stuff like Geomancer’s defense. People were interested in more team support to keep ele in meta.

Sadrien.3470:

The proposed changes to ele aren’t that bad the ele community is just being the most shortsighted of them all.

Can you explain how they’re not bad and what’s actually good about them?

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGpQNIQqPjw

So much QQ over something we got zero info about.

Tell us more about how the world is ending and how utterly useless the class along with it’s spec will be once HoT hits.

~sigh~

You cannot blame people for not having faiht in the elite spec after the proposed changes to ele.

HaxTester.9816:

Laraley.7695:

No, they’re not. They’re the indicator of grind. The fact someone plays a lot means basically nothing. The fact someone doesn’t play ranked doesn’t mean he’s more or less skilled than someone who does, because it doesn’t corelate with skill.

Didn’t you read what I posted. Let me retype it: While LB points might not be an accurate indicator of an individual’s mechanical skill for a certain job class, I consider LB points as “PvP experience points”, experience with team fights and the overall mechanics of PvP games.

Well, you shouldn’t. Once they base matchmaking on this kind of leaderboards, they completely break pvp.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Laraley.7695:

Random Weird Guy.3528:

It would be nice to have Glyph of Renewal and/or Glyph of Elemental Power changed to elite skills, they would essentially be the elementalist equivalent of Battle Standard and Signet of Rage and would both be useful in PvP.

Hell, no. 3 1/4 sec cast time is far from ‘’useful in pvp’’.

Glyph of Elemental Power is not elite worthy.

So you’re saying these are not at least on-par with the current ele elite choices? And there’s such a thing as pre-casting the glyph when you expect someone to go down.

With so much cc in the game, you’re going to get interrupted. I’m not sure if you realize it, but that’s a huge casting time. The solution isn’t to bring more medicore elites, but rather fix the current ones or bring new ones worth taking.

And fgs is not all that bad.

Cecilia.5179:

Glenstorm.4059:

I don’t understand how the devs can make Illusionary Persona and Illusionary Elasticity baseline for mesmers, but force us to choose between the EAs.

PLEASE, PLEASE make a self-only version of Elemental Attunement a baseline functionality for us, and convert the GM version to extend the effect to allies.

This is great, but if this is done, I’d like to see the extend it to allies trait master and something truly worthy of competing against evasive arcana grandmaster.

Exactly, if it’s made a baseline and the trait making it aoe for allies will be GM, we’re having the same issue again. The build will be more and more selfish and no one will run it. Doesn’t solve anything.

sorrychief.2563:

one with air is actually good for zerker mainhand dagger builds in spvp as it lets you ignore chill/cripple for a short duration. I think phantaram made a note or something about how useful it is but can’t find the exact post.

of course this is probably falling on deaf ears because I suppose 90% of the ele community doesn’t play zerk mainhand dagger builds in pvp.

Well, he does run it over Bolt to the heart and has been for a while. I tried it, was fun for a bit but not as useful as the damage modifier.

HaxTester.9816:

I still maintain there is something wrong with the averaging system the matchmaking algorithm is using. In fact it should not be averaging in the first place. It should be ranging. Averaging is a bad way of determining the balance of player experience.

“Well, I hope that player with zero leaderboard points plays like a monster, they say LB points ain’t an indicator of battle experience… nope, he followed the two of us in home and stayed there with the other guy.” -.-

No, they’re not. They’re the indicator of grind. The fact someone plays a lot means basically nothing. The fact someone doesn’t play ranked doesn’t mean he’s more or less skilled than someone who does, because it doesn’t corelate with skill.

HaxTester.9816:

OK, I think there’s something borked with the matchmaking. I think it uses the leaderboard points to match players, which is good, but the problem is, the distribution is borked. Case for example, my previous match:

Team 1
A – 209
B – 4
C – 5
D – 2
E – 16
total LB points: 236

Team 2
A – 29
B – 84
C – 3
D – 87
E – 0
total LB points: 203

Don’t just add leaderboard points and average them. Take into consideration the range differences between the players in the team. While LB points might not be an accurate indicator of an individual’s mechanical skill for a certain job class, I consider LB points as “PvP experience points”, experience with team fights and the overall mechanics of PvP games. Please take into consideration the ranked arena experience ranges of the players.

Lol, leaderboard points has nothing to do with MMR nor skill.

Jelle.2807:

Laraley.7695:

Thief has way much more acces to vigor than a zerker warrior.

How does Thief have way more acces to vigor than a warrior? A warrior can run offhand warhorn for a 10 second vigor boon on 20 second cooldown. The only reliable source of vigor thief has is Vigorous Recovery, warrior also has Vigorous Focus. If anything, a warrior could probably have a higher vigor uptime than a thief is he wanted.

Most zerker warriors do not run warhorn offhand.

Anyways, thief has at least 50% vigor uptime due to Bountiful theft.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

It would be nice to have Glyph of Renewal and/or Glyph of Elemental Power changed to elite skills, they would essentially be the elementalist equivalent of Battle Standard and Signet of Rage and would both be useful in PvP.

Hell, no. 3 1/4 sec cast time is far from ‘’useful in pvp’’.

Glyph of Elemental Power is not elite worthy.

Jelle.2807:

kdaddy.5431:

This is a choice i made to have more dodges, you shouldnt take away peoples choices to simplify the game for new players.

It’s not strictly a matter of simplying though.

You must ask yourself, does the oversaturation of endurance promote me to time my dodges at just the right moments, or does having a dodge every five seconds in addition to any other skill I can use to avoid damage mean you get to use it often enough to just spam it. Likewise does it allow for interesting counterplays when you know your opponent can dodge every five seconds?

You are right that elementalist probably has the most acces to vigor. I would argue however, that this is also the reason why elementalist is in such a weird state of balance where d/d just keeps on getting nerfed. That’s beside the point though that all classes have the same endurance regeneration and most have some trait that grants them a high vigor uptime.

Laraley.7695:

I agree with you. However, it’s not this simple. Imagine a zerker thief and zerker warrior. The warrior won’t have to dodge so much due to highest hp and armour pool and healing singet. The thief will have to dodge much more than the warrior due to lowest hp pool, lower armour. Now tell me what is more skilled? Having more dodges and timing them right? Or benefit from passives and then time less dodges right?

Technically speaking this has little to do with endurance and vigor. Thief has a lot of skills that evade, that’s part of the design of the class. Where a warrior is naturally tough, a guardian has a lot of blocks and invulnerables, a thief has a lot of evasion skill. If anything, I think more emphasis should be put on evading through skills rather than dodge.

Not really, having evade on weapon skills is still active defense and actually dp thief has none on dp weapon skills and one on heal, which has a cooldown and cannot be spammed. Then it has one on sb. But that wasn’t the point. Thief has way much more acces to vigor than a zerker warrior. It’s still completely different to just having high armour and hp, which is completely passive defense. And that was my point, the passive defenses should be toned down a bit while the active ones would get buffed.

However, things like ranger’s evade on autoattack is a completely bad desing. It doesn’t reward anything at all.

Raif.9507:

Laraley.7695:

Raif.9507:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

I’ll try 1 more time. Tank/bruiser elementalists will be (relatively) unaffected by the changes. You will go Earth/Water/Arcana and retain most of your former power minus the extra heal/blast finisher due to losing EvArcana. In return you’re getting Rock Solid + 20% DR + one extra GM. It’s not a terrible trade off and the build will be “OK”.

All the burst builds will not be so lucky (not that they are viable ATM anyway). The extra blast finisher + heal was very powerful for getting those might stacks and heal. Now personally, I haven’t taken EvArcana in years, always stopped at 4 in Arcana just for EA. Now, in this new patch these Fresh Air builds lost their teeth (can’t have Bolt to the Heart together with Fresh Air and Air Training is gone) and will now lose 1 of their defensive options. If speccing into Arcana, these burst builds have 1 useless trait as none of those traits are of any use to them.

• Elemental Contingency – You don’t want to get hit as a burst build, you’re running a zerker amulet (or want to) and you can’t afford to be hit to proc this.
• Revive trait – Enough said. If you’re reviving as a burst ele, you better be sure nothing is around you. On top of that, not a very useful proc.
• Final Shielding – Could be good, but most burst specs go from 25% -> 0% right through that Arcane Shield. I’ve had experiences of going from 50%+ to downed before that shield even came up.

These builds have gimmicky burst at best and were not very strong (read: at all)in the current meta.

Now to top this all off: EAttunement isn’t game changing. It isn’t build defining, it’s telling you to use your class mechanic. A GM that is game changing is Fresh Air or Powerful Aura. THose change how you play. The way EAttunement is right now, makes more sense to make it baseline as it’s just telling you to use your class mechanic. If it were to be made solo baseline with a group version that is powerful, that would be game changing. It makes your class mechanic affect EVERYONE and buff your party. This helps those burst builds retain their survivability as the protection/swiftness/regen are baseline (short versions, not the same length as now) and makes that choice that Karl Mclain wants. Do you go EAttunement:Group as a buff bot with auras or do you take something more selfish as a tank and go Diamond Skin or Stone Heart and Evasive Arcana to be that point holder?

And I’m going to say this once again: It’s not about playing a spec with a lot survability and less team support. That’s exactly what’s happening. Ele is losing a team support and that’s exactly why people will choose to play something different. Being a tank doesn’t really give you as much as having someone who is able to survive on point, heal allies, give out boons, ress, banner…Shoutbow will be way more useful than an ele who is not crittable in earth and has 20% dmg reduction in 900 range.

I don’t know why you’re stating that at me, because I agree with you completely. Ele will be edged out of the meta exactly due to that. The build will be “OK” means that its more or less ok, but let’s be real here, the only thing it’s losing is Evasive Arcana, which isn’t a huge deal. I still know that it will be edged out as Shoutbow is already arguably better.

Ele will lose both that tanky spot, and will be further away from the damage spot.

I’m sorry then, I got the impression you were saying the tanky ele would be able to replace d/d and thefore compete with shoutbow.

ronpierce.2760:

kdaddy.5431:

I disagree with all of them, if theres a problem with the weapon swapping aloowing a certain class great benefits it should be addressed, opose freezing all classes weapon swaps.

Some classes depend on vigor and what separates the average-good-great- best players is when they dodge, obviously ele’s have the most to gain from this but they give in elite special skills which to me is a trade off. Also i trait for vigor so i can dodge more after using a utility skill. This is a choice i made to have more dodges, you shouldnt take away peoples choices to simplify the game for new players.

For any sport where you play head to head with another person you need to play with physicality which means your gonna get hit. Alot of the big hitting skills have a tell or a set up hit. I know there is 2-3 different ways i like to combo attack with the classes i use for maximum dmg. The last one seems like your trying to simplify the game for those who its moving too fast for.

Last time i checked you never ask usain bolt to run with weights on his back because hes faster then everyone else. No one told micheal phelps to swim with one arm. The honest answer for things to fix pvp is simple mechanics that are not working the way they should. Ask anet to fix the basic things like range, proper dmg and the way conditions should be removed when using condi removals. Among alot of other little things but this is just my opinion.

More dodges don’t increase skill level. It means you can be less conservative. If a guy has an unending amount for example, is he more skillful than a guy who has to make the best of just 2?

I agree with you. However, it’s not this simple. Imagine a zerker thief and zerker warrior. The warrior won’t have to dodge so much due to highest hp and armour pool and healing singet. The thief will have to dodge much more than the warrior due to lowest hp pool, lower armour. Now tell me what is more skilled? Having more dodges and timing them right? Or benefit from passives and then time less dodges right?

Quadox.7834:

Laraley.7695:

Quadox.7834:

Avead.5760:

Quadox.7834:

From a game design standpoint, Anet is doing the right thing by not allowing evasive arcana and elemental attunement at the same time. I do not care how much you guys say that “ele needs it”- they don’t. Period. They need Alternatives. And hopefully they will add just that. I do think, however that diamond skin and stone heart are badly designed traits, diamond skin at the very least. These (and other lines’ GMs) could probably be changed to something more fitting.

I will personally probably run 6/6/0/0/6 fresh air s/f with
Burning precision- pyromancer’s training – blinding ashes
One with air (lol that buff)- X (not sure yet) – Fresh air
Renewing Stamina- Elemental contingency (probably) – Elemental attunement

Since fresh air builds crit so often this provides blinds every 3- 4 seconds and super speed approaching 50% uptime in a fight (due to fresh air).

No condi clear,no heal,11k hp ,too much protection when you should really be afraid of condies (not only the damaging ones) in exchange of a single target blind that you cant control here and there every 4 sec.
You can run something similar right now but with the actuall opness that is evasive arcana and elem attunement together so you have some condi clear and extra heal every 10 sec and more damage due to the damage modifiers in air.
Try it and tell me how it goes,and IF it didnt go that well tell me how an extra 2 fire traits/quickness for the loss of damage and evasive arcana will make it better

The fact that every ele is playing the same traits since the dawn of time up to the competitive level makes me thing that not being able to go fire and air together is not an l2p issue..that or all eles ever tried this game sucked
Maybe an extra fire aura and some protection from direct damage in earth will fix the melting to burst and to conditions..or maybe tempest will bring stealth.

Do you even know elmentalist ablities? Read on magnetic shield please. As a mesmer player, i find fresh air has condition removal for days. Actually, fresh air has more sustain than mesmer in general, with the tradeoff being stealth. Use terrain and your permanent vigor to evade the condition that you can’t clear.

I personally like blind, but you can go ahead and use water traitline like fresh air eles are doing now, or earth if you so want it. Although i do think those options are worse. Also, you actually don’t know that the build will have 11k hp, as you know nothing about the way stats will work.

That’s actually one/one of the two effective condi removals fresh air has. It’s on 25 seconds cooldown. Don’t get me wrong, the skill is great, but it’s far from ‘’condi removal for days’‘. If the ele has 30 in arcana, then it has another condi removal every 10 seconds. Phoenix does remove a condition but if you’re going to use it to do so primarily, you’ll lose on the main burst skill you have.

Maybe you missed when i said “As a mesmer player, i find fresh air has condition removal for days”. ^^

Depends on what you are used to.

I suppose so, but people see it one sided. I agree mesmers could use a bit more condi removal, however mesmers have a higher hp pool than ele so it evens out in theory. In reality both mesmer and fresh air will melt down to condi burst.

Quadox.7834:

Laraley.7695:

Kicast.1459:

Worst: no contest possible => thief

Hard counter of plenty of builds
No hard counter
Spammy as hell
Very low risk / high reward
Worst of all: few to none counter play => instant gap closers / never ending dodging machine / stealth spamm / stupid mobility.
In the end a disaster removing any fun.

And anet wants to give double steal ?
Just for trolling I suppose.

Best design:
I like guard…it is not selfish … positive for teamates and fair for opponents.

You’re kidding me right?
Thief has no counter? How about almost every spec in the game apart from mesmer? High reward low risk? Have you ever played thief? It’s probably one of the hardest things in game. People like you do not understand the classes at all, especially when you cannot comprehend the nature of Improvisation.

Nice try, 2/10.

Work on your reading. He wrote “no HARD counter”. A thief will lose to a guardian or an engineer if they fight them 1v1 on a point. They can, however, move away at any point in time and can even win eventually as long as they play cheesy/carefully by jumping in and out. A mesmer will die from a good thief if he gets no support from teammates. The mesmer cannot walk away, blink away or anything of the sort. The matchup besides mesmer and thief i would perhaps consider a hardcounter is Necro vs Condi Engi.

The notion that thief hard counters plenty of builds is debatable, but it does feel incredibly boring and cheesy when you play for example a fresh air ele and suddenly you get stealth backstabbed, get posion, weakness, daze and 3 seconds immobilize on you instantly.

My reading is fine.

Thief will generally lose in 1v1 to:
d/d ele
shoutbow
engi
guardian

Note, those are the specs that have been in meta for ages.

Thief has an okay match up against:
Necro (but power necro is not really that easy for a thief)
Ranger

Thief is very good against:
mesmer

Making it seem like a thief can go and just 1v1 anything with no issues is wrong. I do agree that d/p builds are really good, but they’re not low risk/high reward. It is one of the hardest things to play in the game and you have to play almost perfectly if you don’t want to be liability to your team. I agree with you that thief has many ways to disengage, but I don’t agree mesmer does not. You have portal, blink, distortion, stealth…Thief might be better at that, but it doesn’t mean mesmer is complete trash, it isn’t.

It’s funny that you say it feels cheesy when you’re on fresh air and you get backstabbed and immobed. Many fresh air skills are instant, have interrupts that track stealth and dps that can shut down a thief.

I don’t main thief, I actually main ele and had been mostly playing fresh air till recently when I picked up thief and it’s really not that easy how some people think. It’s a completely different playstyle due to the nature of the profession and it has its benefits but it rewards good play.

Quadox.7834:

Avead.5760:

Quadox.7834:

From a game design standpoint, Anet is doing the right thing by not allowing evasive arcana and elemental attunement at the same time. I do not care how much you guys say that “ele needs it”- they don’t. Period. They need Alternatives. And hopefully they will add just that. I do think, however that diamond skin and stone heart are badly designed traits, diamond skin at the very least. These (and other lines’ GMs) could probably be changed to something more fitting.

I will personally probably run 6/6/0/0/6 fresh air s/f with
Burning precision- pyromancer’s training – blinding ashes
One with air (lol that buff)- X (not sure yet) – Fresh air
Renewing Stamina- Elemental contingency (probably) – Elemental attunement

Since fresh air builds crit so often this provides blinds every 3- 4 seconds and super speed approaching 50% uptime in a fight (due to fresh air).

No condi clear,no heal,11k hp ,too much protection when you should really be afraid of condies (not only the damaging ones) in exchange of a single target blind that you cant control here and there every 4 sec.
You can run something similar right now but with the actuall opness that is evasive arcana and elem attunement together so you have some condi clear and extra heal every 10 sec and more damage due to the damage modifiers in air.
Try it and tell me how it goes,and IF it didnt go that well tell me how an extra 2 fire traits/quickness for the loss of damage and evasive arcana will make it better

The fact that every ele is playing the same traits since the dawn of time up to the competitive level makes me thing that not being able to go fire and air together is not an l2p issue..that or all eles ever tried this game sucked
Maybe an extra fire aura and some protection from direct damage in earth will fix the melting to burst and to conditions..or maybe tempest will bring stealth.

Do you even know elmentalist ablities? Read on magnetic shield please. As a mesmer player, i find fresh air has condition removal for days. Actually, fresh air has more sustain than mesmer in general, with the tradeoff being stealth. Use terrain and your permanent vigor to evade the condition that you can’t clear.

I personally like blind, but you can go ahead and use water traitline like fresh air eles are doing now, or earth if you so want it. Although i do think those options are worse. Also, you actually don’t know that the build will have 11k hp, as you know nothing about the way stats will work.

That’s actually one/one of the two effective condi removals fresh air has. It’s on 25 seconds cooldown. Don’t get me wrong, the skill is great, but it’s far from ‘’condi removal for days’‘. If the ele has 30 in arcana, then it has another condi removal every 10 seconds. Phoenix does remove a condition but if you’re going to use it to do so primarily, you’ll lose on the main burst skill you have.