Guild Wars 2

StickerHappy.8052:

Laraley.7695:

StickerHappy.8052:

To all the naysayers, It can:

Competitive Team match right here.

http://imgur.com/PBIQres

It does a lot more than focus:

why do people like focus? Invuln. Thats it.

More healing for team support. Water 4 and 5
Reflects check? CC check. Air 4 and Water 4.
Boon sharing? Check.
Conditions? Check. Lots of bleeds and burns plus those blinds.
Water fields? Check.

Whatever focus can do, warhorn can too.

Fire field = Fire 5
CC =Water 4 and Air 4
Aura = the loss of fire aura from Focus get replaced by magnetic aura on WH, still fair trade.
Blast finisher = Earth 4, lacks 1 from Focus Earth 4

So bottom line:

Focus only steps up ahead with 1 extra blast finisher, 1 condition clear and 1 Invuln. Pro players use it, that’s why everyone flocks to it
Warhorn offers more for the team like AoE healing, Water fields, AoE burns and bleeds and blinds.

One glaring problem of warhorn is the clunkiness is of the skills, and yes Warhorn could use some rework.

You’re comparing wrong things.

You want more offense? You play dagger.
You want more defesne? You play focus.
You want more support? You play staff.

Warhorn is clunky, its boonsharing sucks and the damage from it is not all that great. No one plays it simply because it’s inferior to other offhands.

Winning a game with warhorn doesn’t mean anything and it definitely not proves it’s better than other options ele has.

Wow this guy. Cherry picking much?

When did I say winning a game with WH meant something?

Did you even glance at the stats?
I can post more games like this with WH.

You want more offense? Go play dagger?

• What are you smoking? I dealt almost 1m damage this match with an offhand that is subpar then you tell me play dagger? okay show me a match where you deal 1.5m damage with D/D. please enlighten me. Not solo q matches, 5v5 Matches.

Noone plays it because a lot of people suck playing any class.

Again before you cherry pick my post again, I did say WH do need tweaks and yes its clunky but I am doing VERY WELL WITH IT.

If you still refute my point on my play style maybe because I am just a better player than you?

Here are more screenies, and these are all team matches.

https://i.imgur.com/IRmLb4T.jpg

• Please do tell me if your staff can heal your allies for 700k. and do 800k damage at the same time

https://imgur.com/pfpewqT

• Stronghold match yes it irrelavant but hey “It’s that very clunky OH that I was using”

https://imgur.com/YdV15dQ

• 750k damage and 500k healing

https://imgur.com/cFOuIQe

• 5v5 match, just didn’t screenie the details, but my team and the other team was composed of forum people (kdaddy was on the other team) So if you wanna know if this is a legit match go ask them

So do you want more proof? I can post more.

Please come back at me if your FA burst ele can do 1m damage in competitive 5v5 Match and do 400k healing at the same time. Please.

“Damage from Warhorn is not that great”- Laraley

okay….

Lol, dude you’e hilarious. With staff you were able to do comparable damage with more healing and cleanse. Maybe go try it, make million more screenshots and you’ll see.

Sure, warhorn can work but it doesn’t mean it’s not worse than other offhands. Is it the best choice? No. Are you competing on high levels? No. Stop screaming so much, please. And your “it must be a 5v5 not soloq”, just wow. Okay, let me know when you have a game against some prolague team and then post screenshot.

Edit: And don’t forget to add how having a match against forum people is some high lvl pvp.

I also don’t know what you were using post patch, so what do you want to compare?

You’re not even saying warhorn can work, you’re saying warhorn is simply better than other offhands.

kuritsutian.2987:

Never said irrelevant, … said I preffer the WH ones, yes, there are situations where staff ones are useful, but there’s times too that staff ones get’s interrupted over and over. In general staff is good at range but lame in close combat.

I still preffer WH for support , boon sharing alone cuts it for me … specially now that aura i sless likely to be picked.

Lol, how is staff lame at close combat? You can actually do more than at range, surprise. Staff gets interrupted? Lmao, really. I’m out of this thread.

So people will queue on a class that isn’t popular and then switch after they get a match?

Zetsumei.4975:

Laraley.7695:

Zetsumei.4975:

Laraley.7695:

Browrain.7346:

Really? Sounds pretty bad to me, considering chill doesn’t have stacks.

Man, I didn’t know necros had only access to chill.

Necros do not stack well, but since there’s no cap on conditions anymore, the amount of bleed they were doing must have been insane.

If you have 25 bleeds on you youre dead anyway, its meaningless to say that because it goes above it makes the situation catastrophically worse.

I didn’t say it made the situation catastrophically worse, lol. I said three reapers can continue stacking bleed over 25 stacks so the dmg they did was insane. What is your problem?

Thats my point, once you have somehow gotten 25 bleeds on you, youre going down within the next second or so anyway – in a practical situation youre not going to see a team comp full of necros loading someone with 60 bleeds or so because the target will go down long before then.

My problem is this is a very old misconception that was brought up when the change happened regarding epidemic (“oh no new meta! epidemicing 100 bleed stacks”). People think it makes a difference – once you somehow manage to get 25 bleeds on yourself youre going down way before anything else interesting will happen.

I don’t think you’re getting the point at all.

I’m not talking about dying/survivng. I’m talking about the raw damage.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

For support I am kinda prefering Warhorn over staff.
The heals are somewhat better, improved magnetic aura, blind on downed, boon share, aoe cc.

When not support, other offhands are better-

I find it amusing people say the boonshare is so good. It’s useless. It copies only might and fury.

The heals are better? Where did you get thatt idea?

Staff has superior cc than warhorn in terms of support. You get Staic field and Unsteady ground, enough said.

Some blind? Yeah, that’s not enough to compete with staff in terms of support.

I guess you forgot about Sand Squall

As of heals I find staff heals only good on point, very situational due to duration, radious and casting time… warhorn ones, besides the knock back are for more dinamic team battles, good for characters scaping from aoe damage … etc …

As of cc really good option for staff is static field, I steady is just alright, everyone knows how to deal with it by now… cyclone interrupts and destroys projectiles… still my personal prefference.

I should probably tell you that the gamemode in this game is conquest, you prolly didn’t realize that. Chasing water field or having heals that cover the point? I think the choice is clear.

Let’s think about why staff was meta while no one used wh for a moment.

Well in that case you probably don’t know how to use Unsteady ground right if you can’t get any interrupts with it.

Bah, you always wants to argue with me for the sole purpouse of contradicting, cherry picking here and there, once again I said it’s my opinion trying to avoid your endless antics … about the whole conquest thing, I am guessing you have never fought a DH on point….. just because in conquest doesn’t mean you have to stay on point… that idea is very bunker meta biased … and even while bunkers are viable, they are far from what they used to be … deal with it already!

Yes, everyone fights off point. Just because some classes stay off point doesn’t mean having on point heals is irrelevant. With staff you also have range, which beats wh just due to that. Someone off point? Np, have 1200 range on heals. What are you gonna do with wh? Run after them and then make them chase your water field?

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

For support I am kinda prefering Warhorn over staff.
The heals are somewhat better, improved magnetic aura, blind on downed, boon share, aoe cc.

When not support, other offhands are better-

I find it amusing people say the boonshare is so good. It’s useless. It copies only might and fury.

The heals are better? Where did you get thatt idea?

Staff has superior cc than warhorn in terms of support. You get Staic field and Unsteady ground, enough said.

Some blind? Yeah, that’s not enough to compete with staff in terms of support.

I guess you forgot about Sand Squall

As of heals I find staff heals only good on point, very situational due to duration, radious and casting time… warhorn ones, besides the knock back are for more dinamic team battles, good for characters scaping from aoe damage … etc …

As of cc really good option for staff is static field, I steady is just alright, everyone knows how to deal with it by now… cyclone interrupts and destroys projectiles… still my personal prefference.

I should probably tell you that the gamemode in this game is conquest, you prolly didn’t realize that. Chasing water field or having heals that cover the point? I think the choice is clear.

Let’s think about why staff was meta while no one used wh for a moment.

Well in that case you probably don’t know how to use Unsteady ground right if you can’t get any interrupts with it.

Zetsumei.4975:

Laraley.7695:

Browrain.7346:

Really? Sounds pretty bad to me, considering chill doesn’t have stacks.

Man, I didn’t know necros had only access to chill.

Necros do not stack well, but since there’s no cap on conditions anymore, the amount of bleed they were doing must have been insane.

If you have 25 bleeds on you youre dead anyway, its meaningless to say that because it goes above it makes the situation catastrophically worse.

I didn’t say it made the situation catastrophically worse, lol. I said three reapers can continue stacking bleed over 25 stacks so the dmg they did was insane. What is your problem?

Yeah, now they’ll stack 5 of them.

Once the usual Phoenix + LF combo is on cd, everyone will run in circles because their AA’s would heal their opponent. It will be great, trust me.

Browrain.7346:

Really? Sounds pretty bad to me, considering chill doesn’t have stacks.

Man, I didn’t know necros had only access to chill.

Necros do not stack well, but since there’s no cap on conditions anymore, the amount of bleed they were doing must have been insane.

Browrain.7346:

posthumecaver.6473:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

And why is he running zerker?

Best thing is, i didnt respond to that guy because he obviously doesnt understand what balance means, like so many other ppl. They only know spite.

“My class was underpowered last season, now yours can be underpowered because you already had your dominant meta”

Thats not promoting skill, thats promoting RNG imbalanced classes read the thread if you want to know what i think about it. Since this has been discussed over 3 times already.

Second on what you actually asked me. Why zerker? Because elementalist doesnt do any damage without zerker. Even marauder was extremely bad because its a sustain rune, in a time where scepter just doesnt do any damage.

As a scepter elementalist you are forced to play zerker to even be able to play this game on a fair level, yes its 20 times harder then other classes because you have almost no sustain or health, you dont have armor. and you fully relly on your dodges/kiting and timely blinds to stall. But atleast you can kill people before they kill you.

Its extremely high level if you know howto play it and i do.

Yet the problem still exists that as any elementalist that focusses on damage, even if its focus is hybrid support. You will not beat necros because you do not have enough traitlines/health and condi clears to simply clear the chills wich literally instant gg’s any scepter build.

You are forced into a few traitlines that can synergise with eachother to remove condis with. Do you know how little access elementalist even has to condi clear? And guess what, theyr all locked up in different trees. With the lowest HP ingame. With a single condi that hardcounters.

Chill needs to get reduced in effectiveness, its too potent. If it can hardcounter a class it shouldve been clear from the day chill go implemented in its current form, that it was too strong if you can shut down an entire class with it.

Ive stated it when reapers where revealed before HoT and everything following up to that point. That necros will be imbalanced in the ele vs necro matchup.

No I just thought it was funny that you only make the post when it’s your class. Where were your cries of outrage when DS wasn’t terrible and necros had no chance vs ele?

Only bad Necro’s has no chance to kill Ele’s with old DS, as Nosc provide over and over in his stream, 0 power amulets, go to repear shroud, auto-attack for 10 might stack, gone the DS……

Actually, if you watch Nos’ stream, you’d know he was beating bad eles. He’s stated many times that he was never able to beat Wakkey (an equally skilled player) on his ele. Nice try though.

It’s true if the ele was decent, he wouldn’t die to a necro. It was basically impossible to break DS if the ele knew what he was doing. Sure you could beat really bad eles, but that’s about it. There was a lot of people flaming necros for not being able to break DS when it really wasn’t up to them. Even though the hp you had to go through wasn’t really high (around 1.8K), ele had so much heal and cleanse that even if you did break it, they would just go to full hp. In the long run you would just die because the ele would outsustain you.

Anyone who says the necro is bad if he couldn’t break DS never faced any ele with a brain.

reikken.4961:

staff is a support weapon. the damage skills are not good on their own in pvp settings, but it has nice utility

Is it? I wonder why it was top dps in pve for such a long time then.

kuritsutian.2987:

For support I am kinda prefering Warhorn over staff.
The heals are somewhat better, improved magnetic aura, blind on downed, boon share, aoe cc.

When not support, other offhands are better-

I find it amusing people say the boonshare is so good. It’s useless. It copies only might and fury.

The heals are better? Where did you get thatt idea?

Staff has superior cc than warhorn in terms of support. You get Staic field and Unsteady ground, enough said.

Some blind? Yeah, that’s not enough to compete with staff in terms of support.

You mean you overload and during the overload you use Eye of the storm and not get superspeed? Then it would be a bug, yes.

StickerHappy.8052:

To all the naysayers, It can:

Competitive Team match right here.

http://imgur.com/PBIQres

It does a lot more than focus:

why do people like focus? Invuln. Thats it.

More healing for team support. Water 4 and 5
Reflects check? CC check. Air 4 and Water 4.
Boon sharing? Check.
Conditions? Check. Lots of bleeds and burns plus those blinds.
Water fields? Check.

Whatever focus can do, warhorn can too.

Fire field = Fire 5
CC =Water 4 and Air 4
Aura = the loss of fire aura from Focus get replaced by magnetic aura on WH, still fair trade.
Blast finisher = Earth 4, lacks 1 from Focus Earth 4

So bottom line:

Focus only steps up ahead with 1 extra blast finisher, 1 condition clear and 1 Invuln. Pro players use it, that’s why everyone flocks to it
Warhorn offers more for the team like AoE healing, Water fields, AoE burns and bleeds and blinds.

One glaring problem of warhorn is the clunkiness is of the skills, and yes Warhorn could use some rework.

You’re comparing wrong things.

You want more offense? You play dagger.
You want more defesne? You play focus.
You want more support? You play staff.

Warhorn is clunky, its boonsharing sucks and the damage from it is not all that great. No one plays it simply because it’s inferior to other offhands.

Winning a game with warhorn doesn’t mean anything and it definitely not proves it’s better than other options ele has.

One condition per second.

You’re just nitpicking. It removes conditions as long as you’re above the threshold, one per second on struck.

Axialbloom.8109:

Laraley.7695:

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

There is no way you would not have lost to a reaper. You would have been frozen and nuked down, just like everyone else.

With Diamond Skin? Lol no.

brannigan.9831:

zinkz.7045:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Ridiculous how Anet constantly ignore that the ele class needs HUGE redesign to ever feel as viable and versatile as other classes nowadays do.

That is a pretty myopic viewpoint you’ve got going there, half the classes in the game have design issues, for example anything that uses AI which is basically broken to various extents on virtually every class that uses it, of course for some classes that is less of an issue than others, but on classes where it plays a big part like Ranger, Mesmer, etc it is a big problem, that has existed the entire game.

You should also get off your whinebox when it comes to ele and the entire game, where ele has been “meta” in PvE & WvW pretty much the entire game, and faired pretty well in PvP with only really thief, guard and maybe engy faring better over the course of the last 3 years.

Whilst most other classes have overall been far more useless, in PvP ranger, necro, warrior, etc, WvW (half the classes basically unwanted for three years, whilst ele has been perma meta) and PvE where the likes of necro were basically unwanted for 3 years, whilst ele was always a top class to the point it got stacked, the sheer lack of perspective is pathetic.

A strong argument can be made that overall ele has been the top class in spvp measuring average strength over the life span of the game. No other class has been stacked more in general at high levels of play at any given time and they have been out of meta the least. In theory all classes should have at least one meta build at any time if the game was balanced correctly but I find the current ele tears a little juicy personally. The people that had it the best are always going to cry the most when the nerf stick hits and they are on the bottom for a bit.

Hello? You weren’t around the time when people stacked up to 4 warriors?

Xillllix.3485:

I was already destroying eles with my reaper before the epic ele nerf, and I suck at necro, so GG Anet ruining this game.

I’m pretty sure those eles couldn’t use DS or you weren’t condi/cele. Or they were just bad. Before the change I didn’t die to a necro once.

Anyways, never listen to anyone who tells you to use Ether Renewal, worst heal ele has.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

emikochan.8504:

Laraley.7695:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

40 seconds cooldown for a single target 1 second stun.

LOL. Just LOL.

It’s not single target, nor it’s stun.

Gale is the focus ability that knockdowns 1 target (identical to a stun)

You are confusing the staff Gust skill.

I didn’t confuse anyting, I just kitten ed. However, stun is not identical to knocback. Sure you cannot move and use your skills, but it’s still not the same regarding what happens with your character.

Also, Gust is knockback, not knockdown.

You’re either not reading properly or you are seriously out of touch. He said gale is a single target knockdown, nothing about gust being knockdown.

He said I confused it with that skill, but I was talking about knockdown, not knockback. Whatever, completely off topic and pointless.

Because the first time you were nitpicking, you not only said it’s not single target, and not a stun. That describes gust. That’s why they assume that’s why you were confusing the 2 skills. You were right that it wasn’t a stun, but it’s almost the same.

By the wording of the patch notes, I’m hoping it’s only a tooltip change, since I never actually timed the duration on the gale KD.

Pretty sure it’s an actual duration nerf. Because before the patch focus air 5 would guarantee a dragon’s tooth landing if they didn’t use a stunbreaker. Now it doesn’t.

It was a duration nerf, prolly because of the unblockable.

Shadowflare.2759:

Laraley.7695:

emikochan.8504:

Laraley.7695:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

40 seconds cooldown for a single target 1 second stun.

LOL. Just LOL.

It’s not single target, nor it’s stun.

Gale is the focus ability that knockdowns 1 target (identical to a stun)

You are confusing the staff Gust skill.

I didn’t confuse anyting, I just kitten ed. However, stun is not identical to knocback. Sure you cannot move and use your skills, but it’s still not the same regarding what happens with your character.

Also, Gust is knockback, not knockdown.

You’re either not reading properly or you are seriously out of touch. He said gale is a single target knockdown, nothing about gust being knockdown.

He said I confused it with that skill, but I was talking about knockdown, not knockback. Whatever, completely off topic and pointless.

Katoh.4069:

That’s the problem I see. It seems that Bunker vs A new DPS build, it always goes to the DPS cause bunker does no dmg at all and still cant live. Shouldn’t a bunker be able to last against at least 1 dps, and even 2 dps for a limited time like 20seconds or so. This game feels more like a 1 role game.

If anyone has any builds or ideas they would like to share I would like to get the previous sup/bunker people talking about it.

The problem is they can’t balance it. Bunkers are too strong, then damage is too strong because the’re not doing small adjusments often but rather completely destroy/overbuff classes every 6 months. You’re not gonna balance the game like this, everyone knows that.

runeblade.7514:

Uncle Dalty.8327:

style.6173:

More likely that their broken specs got balanced. Bye bye bunker mesmer

OMG drop the bunker mes crap… it was just that crap. but it was the only option for mes and now there aren’t any

I bet you’re the kind of person who cried nerf for Warriors and thief when they have only 1 viable build.

You know, there is a difference between having only one viable build (like most classes) that is too strong and needs to be toned down and not having any viable build to play at all.

No, I don’t play mesmer.

emikochan.8504:

Laraley.7695:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

40 seconds cooldown for a single target 1 second stun.

LOL. Just LOL.

It’s not single target, nor it’s stun.

Gale is the focus ability that knockdowns 1 target (identical to a stun)

You are confusing the staff Gust skill.

I didn’t confuse anyting, I just kitten ed. However, stun is not identical to knocback. Sure you cannot move and use your skills, but it’s still not the same regarding what happens with your character.

Also, Gust is knockback, not knockdown.

Infusion.7149:

If we followed that list it would appear guardian scepter is better than Fireball which is not the case.

There is more than just the damage modifier, there is also the base damage ; the number of targets , the range , speed at which an attack hits, etc.

While this is true, it still doesn’t change the fact the scepter AA’s are bad. They have insanely long cast time with really low base damage and damage coeficient.

Reem.3578:

kuritsutian.2987:

As an Ele can tell that I am hanging on fine, time to adapt and join the skilled play train.

Skills >> Build.

Wow i waited so much time for someone to say this.
+15kkholyquaggans

Please, read his other posts, too. He clearly said he’s doing fine in hotjoin.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

It doesn’t enforce anything. I saw your build, it uses crapload of boons. Please let me know once you start facing good people and then you realize how easily necro will shut you down.
..snip..

Edit: Went back to your build to see how much you don’t rely on boons.
Elemental Attunement
Elemental Contigency
Soothing Disruption
Soothing Ice
Renewing Stamina

Lol, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

… really: -_-U … they only trigger two boons! Stamina and Regeneration …occasionally prot but doesn’t rely on protection like common ele … Check not only the build to cherry pick to make a point, check usage and see how to deal with necro bombs and condis in general…

For refference the mentioned build is

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Build-Core-ele-is-back/first#post5950782

Laraley.7695:

Ele was already not used much in prolague, now we won’t see any. Are you gonna call those people unskilled, too and say how much better you are because you can kill some hotjoiners? Please.

Never talked about proleague, anywhere!!! I assume you are a proleaguer since you runing like if on fire on several treads calling doom, doom even before changes were anounced. Once again as I post on most of my opinion comments, it’s too soon to make any prediction ….

If I feel skilled because I killed some hotjoiners… yes, I do, not because I killed them, but how and in what conditions I did … died a lot too, doesn’t make me feel less skilled.

If what offended you is the skill >> build comment, I apologize, it was ot directed at anyone. Just enforcing that now pvp seems to require more skills to be successful, don’t agree on that?

You don’t even know how your build works. Pro tip – if you hover over the tooltip it will actually tell you how many boons you’re getting. Arrmour of earth gives you 4 boons insantly, something great to have when there are necros running around. On top of that you have EA, EC and other boons. Only two boons? Please read your skills.

You also use tornado, lol.

You have 13K hp, any necro will get through that no problem and no condi clear will save you.

You have absolutely zero clue about your build, you have no clue about the competitive scene and you run to forums saying how much it’s about skill and that you’re so much skilled because you kill hotjoiners. Really?

It doesn’t offend me, it kittenes me off when people like you are on a crusade on forums to make themselves feel better. You’re literally the only person who’s been posting how ele is good now. Mind stop giving them more ideas to nerf the class?

Once again, when you start facing decent people, let me know how much your build works.

lol cause casting Armor of earth before heading a necro is a “Great idea” … once again skills …. playing ele now is more than smashing buttons on availability xD

I guess you are scared of eles getting more nerfs, …. why would they get nerfede is they are now the trash you claim they are… no point on arguing anymore, only time will tell… we can save this topic and come back to see what happened…. … so far I am hanging well againist necros, if you can’t, check your builds.

Edit: is normal to have counters too, noob advice…. avoid engaging combat with them.

Hahahah, so funny. So you’ll just have a dead skill on your bar because there might be no reaper in one game out of 10? Makes sense. And if you read the post, you would know I gave several other examples why your build is loaded with boons.

Yes, because making ele trash tier was justified and needed. The balance team clearly knows what they’re doing.

That’s exactly what people were telling to necros, do not fight eles. Somehow they didn’t like the advice. And it’s not only about necros, ele has basically nothing to offer now. You’re doing fine against necros, because you apparently test builds in hotjoin and then spam forums how good it is. Ridiculous really. Stand agaist a decent necro and you’re dead no matter what you do. Your build generates boons by just playing and that’s something every necro with a brain will punish.

Not a dead skill, just a skill that shouldn’t be used againist necros, do you believe in a meta full of necros? I bet thieves(among others) beg to differ. Besides that, with the patch, matchmaking changes are enforcing the diversity of classes on matches, so don’t think armor of earth will be useless… if on time I happen to be wrong, I will just change it.. don’t see any problem for that..just tunning.

And YESSS a skilled necro can kill me, as a skilled warrior or any other class will… more prooff of importance of skills!

I personally would be more scared of thieves than necros…. but in short if you keep believing ele is trash just reroll necro and see if you can conquer the world with condis.

I never once said skilled necro for a good reason. Any necro who read their tooltips will kill ele no matter what.

Junkpile.7439:

Laraley.7695:

Junkpile.7439:

Why you have boons when you fight against necro? Necro make you pay when you try to abuse boon spam.

I don’t know if you ever realized it but ele defense was always depending on boons, the class needs them in order to survive due to low hp and armour pool. Sure, eles have invuln skills but cooldowns are ridiculously high and it’s really not gonna save you. The only way to avoid using boons againts a necro is not to play ele. Sure, you can play some build that has minimum of boons, but you’ll be dead anyways, so what’s the point?

I play ele and i rarely have any boons.

Good argument, next please.

Junkpile.7439:

Why you have boons when you fight against necro? Necro make you pay when you try to abuse boon spam.

I don’t know if you ever realized it but ele defense was always depending on boons, the class needs them in order to survive due to low hp and armour pool. Sure, eles have invuln skills but cooldowns are ridiculously high and it’s really not gonna save you. The only way to avoid using boons againts a necro is not to play ele. Sure, you can play some build that has minimum of boons, but you’ll be dead anyways, so what’s the point?

brannigan.9831:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

reikken.4961:

“the rest of us” don’t lack other defensive mechanics while having the lowest base defenses in the game while lacking reliable ranged damage

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Also someone in ele subforum said something like : that ele lack so many mechanics that other classes have to this degree that it is unique.

What? Ele’s lacking mechanics? facepalm Ele’s have active damage mitigation in the form of invulns; say hi to necro and thief. Ele’s have great mobility; say hi to necro and guardian; Ele’s have cleave; say hi to ranger and thief. Ele’s have boons up the wazoo; say hi to necro. Ele’s have stability; say hi to thief and base necro. Ele’s have good condi clear; say hi to rev, engi, mesmer. Ele’s have great healing abilities independent of the #6 skill; say hi to base ranger, necro. Ele’s have great access to CC; say hi to base guardian. Ele’s have the most useful downstate; say hi to everyone.

Ele’s lack health and toughness; say hi to mercenary amulet or paladin amulet.

That’s funny. Ele having sooooooo much over necro, yet necro is on top and ele is on bottom.

Necro is OP right now because of 2 things: (1) necro chill damage is OP right now because the damage coefficient (0.3) is too high, and (2) the scepter AA boon corrupt can corrupt stability on auto.

That doesn’t change the fact that it lacks all of the defensive mechanics that other classes have, as outlined in my post above. Necro chill damage needing a nerf is entirely separate from the perma-protection spam that was rightfully removed from Tempest.

You’re right, they should buff necros more.

I think you need to reread my post? If you do, it’s pretty clear that my opinion is that necro will be in a good spot once chill damage is nerfed and the scepter boon corrupt buff is reverted. Necro lacking defensive mechanics is part of the class design, and I don’t want that to be changed. I’m only pointing out that its kitten y to claim that “ele lacks defensive mechanics”. The moral of the story from this thread is that perma-aoe-protection from tempests is gone, and that’s a good thing.

Of course it’s a good thing ele was removed from pvp completely. I ain’t even mad about the protection, it was just one of the things that destroyed the class anyways, but you acting like necro is sooo much worse than ele is hilarious.

Lots of classes have been out of meta for long periods of time much longer then Ele. Stop whining you’ve been mediocre for a day. You were kings forever. Shut up already people that play classes like thief, warrior, and guardian don’t what to hear it. Even if what you are saying is true as far as Im concerned you still below a bunch of classes for immediate fixes.

Thief was in meta longer than ele.
Ele was complete trash for a year before they buffed celestial.
Please, check your arguments before you post something.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

It doesn’t enforce anything. I saw your build, it uses crapload of boons. Please let me know once you start facing good people and then you realize how easily necro will shut you down.
..snip..

Edit: Went back to your build to see how much you don’t rely on boons.
Elemental Attunement
Elemental Contigency
Soothing Disruption
Soothing Ice
Renewing Stamina

Lol, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

… really: -_-U … they only trigger two boons! Stamina and Regeneration …occasionally prot but doesn’t rely on protection like common ele … Check not only the build to cherry pick to make a point, check usage and see how to deal with necro bombs and condis in general…

For refference the mentioned build is

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Build-Core-ele-is-back/first#post5950782

Laraley.7695:

Ele was already not used much in prolague, now we won’t see any. Are you gonna call those people unskilled, too and say how much better you are because you can kill some hotjoiners? Please.

Never talked about proleague, anywhere!!! I assume you are a proleaguer since you runing like if on fire on several treads calling doom, doom even before changes were anounced. Once again as I post on most of my opinion comments, it’s too soon to make any prediction ….

If I feel skilled because I killed some hotjoiners… yes, I do, not because I killed them, but how and in what conditions I did … died a lot too, doesn’t make me feel less skilled.

If what offended you is the skill >> build comment, I apologize, it was ot directed at anyone. Just enforcing that now pvp seems to require more skills to be successful, don’t agree on that?

You don’t even know how your build works. Pro tip – if you hover over the tooltip it will actually tell you how many boons you’re getting. Arrmour of earth gives you 4 boons insantly, something great to have when there are necros running around. On top of that you have EA, EC and other boons. Only two boons? Please read your skills.

You also use tornado, lol.

You have 13K hp, any necro will get through that no problem and no condi clear will save you.

You have absolutely zero clue about your build, you have no clue about the competitive scene and you run to forums saying how much it’s about skill and that you’re so much skilled because you kill hotjoiners. Really?

It doesn’t offend me, it kittenes me off when people like you are on a crusade on forums to make themselves feel better. You’re literally the only person who’s been posting how ele is good now. Mind stop giving them more ideas to nerf the class?

Once again, when you start facing decent people, let me know how much your build works.

lol cause casting Armor of earth before heading a necro is a “Great idea” … once again skills …. playing ele now is more than smashing buttons on availability xD

I guess you are scared of eles getting more nerfs, …. why would they get nerfede is they are now the trash you claim they are… no point on arguing anymore, only time will tell… we can save this topic and come back to see what happened…. … so far I am hanging well againist necros, if you can’t, check your builds.

Edit: is normal to have counters too, noob advice…. avoid engaging combat with them.

Hahahah, so funny. So you’ll just have a dead skill on your bar because there might be no reaper in one game out of 10? Makes sense. And if you read the post, you would know I gave several other examples why your build is loaded with boons.

Yes, because making ele trash tier was justified and needed. The balance team clearly knows what they’re doing.

That’s exactly what people were telling to necros, do not fight eles. Somehow they didn’t like the advice. And it’s not only about necros, ele has basically nothing to offer now. You’re doing fine against necros, because you apparently test builds in hotjoin and then spam forums how good it is. Ridiculous really. Stand agaist a decent necro and you’re dead no matter what you do. Your build generates boons by just playing and that’s something every necro with a brain will punish.

Edit: I don’t even know how I missed you’re using Ether Renewal. I don’t know if i can faceplam enough. Clearly shows what you’re fighting bought the game yesterday.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

It doesn’t enforce anything. I saw your build, it uses crapload of boons. Please let me know once you start facing good people and then you realize how easily necro will shut you down.
..snip..

Edit: Went back to your build to see how much you don’t rely on boons.
Elemental Attunement
Elemental Contigency
Soothing Disruption
Soothing Ice
Renewing Stamina

Lol, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

… really: -_-U … they only trigger two boons! Stamina and Regeneration …occasionally prot but doesn’t rely on protection like common ele … Check not only the build to cherry pick to make a point, check usage and see how to deal with necro bombs and condis in general…

For refference the mentioned build is

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Build-Core-ele-is-back/first#post5950782

Laraley.7695:

Ele was already not used much in prolague, now we won’t see any. Are you gonna call those people unskilled, too and say how much better you are because you can kill some hotjoiners? Please.

Never talked about proleague, anywhere!!! I assume you are a proleaguer since you runing like if on fire on several treads calling doom, doom even before changes were anounced. Once again as I post on most of my opinion comments, it’s too soon to make any prediction ….

If I feel skilled because I killed some hotjoiners… yes, I do, not because I killed them, but how and in what conditions I did … died a lot too, doesn’t make me feel less skilled.

If what offended you is the skill >> build comment, I apologize, it was ot directed at anyone. Just enforcing that now pvp seems to require more skills to be successful, don’t agree on that?

You don’t even know how your build works. Pro tip – if you hover over the tooltip it will actually tell you how many boons you’re getting. Arrmour of earth gives you 4 boons insantly, something great to have when there are necros running around. On top of that you have EA, EC and other boons. Only two boons? Please read your skills.

You also use tornado, lol.

You have 13K hp, any necro will get through that no problem and no condi clear will save you.

You have absolutely zero clue about your build, you have no clue about the competitive scene and you run to forums saying how much it’s about skill and that you’re so much skilled because you kill hotjoiners. Really?

It doesn’t offend me, it kittenes me off when people like you are on a crusade on forums to make themselves feel better. You’re literally the only person who’s been posting how ele is good now. Mind stop giving them more ideas to nerf the class?

Once again, when you start facing decent people, let me know how much your build works.

Khyan.7039:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

style.6173:

The old mindless ele spec where someone could stay alive forever on point is gone. The fun part is trying new specs. If that isn’t your thing, wait a week or so until metabattle tells you what you run.

Yeah, no. This was the ONLY spec eles ever had. Since the beginning of the game. The class was built around celestial stats, it does not work without them.

Celestial stat wasn’t there since the beginning of the game. Celestial stat was introduced with the Bazaar of the Four Winds patch in July 2013. I guess you don’t even know what you talking about.
Thanks for trying, though. I’m so sorry you have to play differently now, but it’s called balance. Celestial was too strong with the elite spec and every sPvP video with proleague show that.

Really? Because the last two prolagues had barely any eles. Why was that when ele was so much op?

If you know when they added it, you should also know that ele was trash till they buffed cele amulet.

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

reikken.4961:

“the rest of us” don’t lack other defensive mechanics while having the lowest base defenses in the game while lacking reliable ranged damage

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Also someone in ele subforum said something like : that ele lack so many mechanics that other classes have to this degree that it is unique.

What? Ele’s lacking mechanics? facepalm Ele’s have active damage mitigation in the form of invulns; say hi to necro and thief. Ele’s have great mobility; say hi to necro and guardian; Ele’s have cleave; say hi to ranger and thief. Ele’s have boons up the wazoo; say hi to necro. Ele’s have stability; say hi to thief and base necro. Ele’s have good condi clear; say hi to rev, engi, mesmer. Ele’s have great healing abilities independent of the #6 skill; say hi to base ranger, necro. Ele’s have great access to CC; say hi to base guardian. Ele’s have the most useful downstate; say hi to everyone.

Ele’s lack health and toughness; say hi to mercenary amulet or paladin amulet.

That’s funny. Ele having sooooooo much over necro, yet necro is on top and ele is on bottom.

Necro is OP right now because of 2 things: (1) necro chill damage is OP right now because the damage coefficient (0.3) is too high, and (2) the scepter AA boon corrupt can corrupt stability on auto.

That doesn’t change the fact that it lacks all of the defensive mechanics that other classes have, as outlined in my post above. Necro chill damage needing a nerf is entirely separate from the perma-protection spam that was rightfully removed from Tempest.

You’re right, they should buff necros more.

I think you need to reread my post? If you do, it’s pretty clear that my opinion is that necro will be in a good spot once chill damage is nerfed and the scepter boon corrupt buff is reverted. Necro lacking defensive mechanics is part of the class design, and I don’t want that to be changed. I’m only pointing out that its kitten y to claim that “ele lacks defensive mechanics”. The moral of the story from this thread is that perma-aoe-protection from tempests is gone, and that’s a good thing.

Of course it’s a good thing ele was removed from pvp completely. I ain’t even mad about the protection, it was just one of the things that destroyed the class anyways, but you acting like necro is sooo much worse than ele is hilarious.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

As an Ele can tell that I am hanging on fine, time to adapt and join the skilled play train.

Skills >> Build.

You keep spamming this crap, maybe your build works somewhere in the low skill bracket, but the truth is ele got completely destroyed. We won’t see any in the competitive scene, you can be sure about that. Reapers eats you alive, you have nothing to offer and burst ele is still not optimal at all.

Please, go spam this bs somewhere else.

lol, don’t know why you get mad. Not having problems with reapers so far… not relaying on boons and don’t standing on AOE’s as if DS were still applied kinda helps a lot, … I guess this enforces my point up there …
as of future of ele in the possible unknown meta is way to soon to say ele will be dead. You are right tho when you say my opinion is entitled to the “low skill racket” since there’s no other way right now.

Edit: have you entertained the idea that maybe with thief being a strong class currently and other classes that can counter Necros are getting some buffs, people will think twice to pick reapers as the class of choice?

It doesn’t enforce anything. I saw your build, it uses crapload of boons. Please let me know once you start facing good people and then you realize how easily necro will shut you down.

Ele was already not used much in prolague, now we won’t see any. Are you gonna call those people unskilled, too and say how much better you are because you can kill some hotjoiners? Please.

Edit: Went back to your build to see how much you don’t rely on boons.
Elemental Attunement
Elemental Contigency
Soothing Disruption
Soothing Ice
Renewing Stamina

Lol, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

Salamander.2504:

Laraley.7695:

Salamander.2504:

reikken.4961:

“the rest of us” don’t lack other defensive mechanics while having the lowest base defenses in the game while lacking reliable ranged damage

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Also someone in ele subforum said something like : that ele lack so many mechanics that other classes have to this degree that it is unique.

What? Ele’s lacking mechanics? facepalm Ele’s have active damage mitigation in the form of invulns; say hi to necro and thief. Ele’s have great mobility; say hi to necro and guardian; Ele’s have cleave; say hi to ranger and thief. Ele’s have boons up the wazoo; say hi to necro. Ele’s have stability; say hi to thief and base necro. Ele’s have good condi clear; say hi to rev, engi, mesmer. Ele’s have great healing abilities independent of the #6 skill; say hi to base ranger, necro. Ele’s have great access to CC; say hi to base guardian. Ele’s have the most useful downstate; say hi to everyone.

Ele’s lack health and toughness; say hi to mercenary amulet or paladin amulet.

That’s funny. Ele having sooooooo much over necro, yet necro is on top and ele is on bottom.

Necro is OP right now because of 2 things: (1) necro chill damage is OP right now because the damage coefficient (0.3) is too high, and (2) the scepter AA boon corrupt can corrupt stability on auto.

That doesn’t change the fact that it lacks all of the defensive mechanics that other classes have, as outlined in my post above. Necro chill damage needing a nerf is entirely separate from the perma-protection spam that was rightfully removed from Tempest.

You’re right, they should buff necros more.

Salamander.2504:

reikken.4961:

“the rest of us” don’t lack other defensive mechanics while having the lowest base defenses in the game while lacking reliable ranged damage

Mem no Fushia.7604:

Also someone in ele subforum said something like : that ele lack so many mechanics that other classes have to this degree that it is unique.

What? Ele’s lacking mechanics? facepalm Ele’s have active damage mitigation in the form of invulns; say hi to necro and thief. Ele’s have great mobility; say hi to necro and guardian; Ele’s have cleave; say hi to ranger and thief. Ele’s have boons up the wazoo; say hi to necro. Ele’s have stability; say hi to thief and base necro. Ele’s have good condi clear; say hi to rev, engi, mesmer. Ele’s have great healing abilities independent of the #6 skill; say hi to base ranger, necro. Ele’s have great access to CC; say hi to base guardian. Ele’s have the most useful downstate; say hi to everyone.

Ele’s lack health and toughness; say hi to mercenary amulet or paladin amulet.

That’s funny. Ele having sooooooo much over necro, yet necro is on top and ele is on bottom.

kuritsutian.2987:

As an Ele can tell that I am hanging on fine, time to adapt and join the skilled play train.

Skills >> Build.

You keep spamming this crap, maybe your build works somewhere in the low skill bracket, but the truth is ele got completely destroyed. We won’t see any in the competitive scene, you can be sure about that. Reapers eats you alive, you have nothing to offer and burst ele is still not optimal at all.

Please, go spam this bs somewhere else.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

40 seconds cooldown for a single target 1 second stun.

LOL. Just LOL.

It’s not single target, nor it’s stun.

Wolfric.9380:

Yes. But i am not so happy without a secondary precision stat :-).

This would be mine :-).

1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 toughness
560 precision

Or Wanderer swaping precison and toughness.

Gl trying to survive with 12K hp.

While they added more buffs, it still doesn’t change anything.

Scepter is still trash.
Fresh air ele will still be subpar.

The only thing that changed was they completely destroyed the only support/bruiser build ele had.

Well, that actually already happened. The circle just continues.

Shala.8352:

Laraley.7695:

Shala.8352:

if a single amulet remove is “destroying” your class, then you probably have to admit you were carried by that specific amulet, wich means you have been slacking during all this time not trying different and more hardcore builds, i.e ele players don’t take that high skill they are selling to us, and they have been competitive only thx to a build. If you was a really decent group of players, you will adapt and learn to play!!

Yes, I think you figured it out. Not a single ele is skilled enough to make a build without celestial amulet viable. All elementalists including all those top players should just go and learn to play clearly.

I didnt said that, i said ele are slackers cuz they have been carried by an amulet for a year+, and i dont see a single ele trying something different.

You must be trolling.

It’s about practice really, but generally if you wanna be a decent player you need to be able to play without looking at your keyboard or skills.

While some find it unbelievable someone cannot do that there are some people who have issues with it and it’s normal. When I got a new pc, I switched from normal keyboard to mechanical and it took me quite a while to be able to get used to it. Buz yeah, just practice and you’ll be able to play without looking at your keyboard eventually.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Glenstorm.4059:

kuritsutian.2987:

Glenstorm.4059:

Hmm…so if you take the new DS and Gale Song and you get Feared, will both traits proc? :/

Yup, nice combo! … 40s cooldown tho

Thing is, Gale Song with its ICD will be wasted if both traits proc at at the same time, assuming the only condi on you is Fear.

That is assuming that Gale Song will be off cooldown. In reality you’ll have conditions on you most likely anyways so if fear gets applied it will get cleansed with DS. It’s not like you’ll be condition free all the time now.

I think you mean’t the other way around… (fixed it)

No, I didn’t. It’s pretty simple. You’ll have several conditions on you which will be periodically removed, but also applied. So DS will most likely never be off cooldown to cleanse fear applied to you unless it’s just some random fear with no follow up.

chibbi.3706:

The Ace.9105:

Currently conditions are a bit too easy to apply and they do too much damage. After this new update condition builds will skyrocket if nothing is done to them and it will be all condition to eliminate defensive aspects like block and invuln.

I’d really like to know where this comon misconception about condi being applied through invul and blocks comes from.

You know condi applies when you hit something, right ?

I don’t think that was the point. If you’re loaded with condis and then go invulnverable, you’ll still take damage from the condis. Doesn’t work for power damage, obviously. In a way conditions ignore invulnerabilities.

Glenstorm.4059:

kuritsutian.2987:

Glenstorm.4059:

Hmm…so if you take the new DS and Gale Song and you get Feared, will both traits proc? :/

Yup, nice combo! … 40s cooldown tho

Thing is, Gale Song with its ICD will be wasted if both traits proc at at the same time, assuming the only condi on you is Fear.

That is assuming that DS will be off cooldown. In reality you’ll have conditions on you most likely anyways so if fear gets applied it will get cleansed with Gale Song. It’s not like you’ll be condition free all the time now.

Shala.8352:

if a single amulet remove is “destroying” your class, then you probably have to admit you were carried by that specific amulet, wich means you have been slacking during all this time not trying different and more hardcore builds, i.e ele players don’t take that high skill they are selling to us, and they have been competitive only thx to a build. If you was a really decent group of players, you will adapt and learn to play!!

Yes, I think you figured it out. Not a single ele is skilled enough to make a build without celestial amulet viable. All elementalists including all those top players should just go and learn to play clearly.

Kicker.8203:

Shirlias.8104:

Wouldn’t be like have Celestial Back?
Aren’t you happy that finally it’s gone?

Cele amulet is the reason ele is bad on other amulets. If you have an extra 700+ stats that you can utilize well, and you balance around that, that means the traits/skills can’t be good on amulets with way less stats.

Not really, poor balance is the reason ele is bad using other amulets. Cele amulet was the only thing that kept ele in meta. People need to stop blaming the amulet for everything.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Ele will be fine with out cele if …

…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.

I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.

How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.

It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.

Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.

Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.

Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.

Toughness is not important when there will be reapers running around corrupting your precious protection? When thieves got damage buffs? Okay.

Re apply?

How are you gonna keep reapplying it with boon convert on AA and 10 sec corrupt boon?

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Ele will be fine with out cele if …

…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.

I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.

How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.

It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.

Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.

Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.

Well, I find the new amulets quite viable and even as an improvement. Why? because damage was greatly boosted and in some cases healing power! while keeping basically the same vitality (toughness is not as important imho while perma protection). this might not be enough to be the same bunker we used to be, but at least survibability wil be there while we deal our damge.

Toughness is not important when there will be reapers running around corrupting your precious protection? When thieves got damage buffs? Okay.