Don’t care really. Thats generally my perferred method of balancing slaughtering an op class/build and driving off the FOTM trash for a development cycle or so and let some other classes/builds see the light of day. Its almost impossible to change classes/builds from OP to just run of the mills strong in one iteration. Smash away i say. Mesmer players are no more special then anyone else. Lots of classes/builds have been “unplayable” for extremely long periods of time. No one cares until it’s there perferred class that might be toward the bottom for a bit.
Mesmers have been completely unplayable except for 2 month periods once a year since launch for the most part. Ele has never not been in the meta, potentially changing now. Nerfs to mesmer, an already underpowered class except as bunkers which were already shaved to not being OP, is completely ridiculous and I pretty much think everyone who supports the nerf just can’t deal with the clone mechanic or is utterly insane. So far though the nerfs didn’t look that bad for shatter. But with thief buffs it’s completely irrelevant anyways because they will dominate the meta for a good while.
I would just like to point out that ele was out of meta for a year before they buffed celestial, you might wanna correct yourself.
While I don’t agree to trashing any class to the point you get flamed for playing it, I don’t think you realize that lots of classes have had the same one build issue for years. Ele never had anything else, but that one build, each time slightly different.
Fresh air was never viable enough to at least be in some serious tournaments, no one would play it. On the other hand shatter mesmers were played, not that much, but Helseth and Misha played it at least. I also don’t think shatter mesmer was in such a bad position, they were food for thieves, but nowhere near to unplayable.
Anyhow, this balance patch is a joke.
Ele is really not a fair example, you guys might have been out of meta for a year, but what you guys have later kept you in meta for a very long time. Pre HOT, rangers, Necros, Mesmers were completely out of the meta. Even with Robert Gee’s trait revamp, Mesmers had few weeks to shine and it was over nerfed after that. How anet treats Mesmer class compare to other classes is pretty evident, other classes get slap on the wrists, and Mesmers get the drag down to basement and beaten with a baseball bat.
Maybe read what I quoted. That person said ele was always in meta, which is not true.
It’s not the worst, it’s just not the cheesiest in Conquest. That right there makes a HUGE difference. Rifle/GS DPS potential is pretty extreme atm.
That’s why there was ZERO warriors in all last NA and EU tournaments, right? Those silly people just not realized yet how OP Gun Flame is.
If we go by this logic, why are they nerfing eles? There were barely any eles in the tournaments and they still decided to butcher it.
Imo, it won’t be viable.
Low hp pool – will need vit.
Change to DS – will need vit.
More reapers – will need vit.
I think the condition pressure will be too high for eles to afford to run any amulet without conditions. It’s okay now cause of how DS work, it’s even easier to maintain the treshold, but the truth is that without DS ele just melts to condis already, so I would imagine after the patch it will be even harder to survive against condi pressure.
I do try to pick the correct skill for the situation whenever possible, but due to attunement cooldowns, this is often not possible. I don’t really use rotations (though maybe I should?) in pvp. That’s more of a pve thing. and by pve I mean dps race. In pve stuff that puts pressure on your ability to stay alive, you can’t just use rotations there either
Anyway, what you’re looking for you can find in engineer. Kits don’t have cooldowns.
Well, d/d ele was all about rotations, because you had to stack might to get some damage going. Tempest is different because it forces you to camp attunements and overload. Despite the fact tempest is not about rotations that much, your decision making is rather limited due to higher cooldowns on attunements and camping. While it seems you have more freedom, it’s often not like that.
PvE is obviously all about rotations to maximize your damage.
Remind me what are the priorities in boon corruption? I remember stability is high in that list but you shouldn’t be able to generate fear that easily.
There is a reason why most mesmers don’t take domination despite the all powerful shattered concentration you know…surviving seems more useful than useless attempt to remove boon.
It’s random, now.
We were once joking that they’ll give necros fear on AA. This is pretty close.
I mean what’s the point? First of all, it’s a trait made for dps, the fact it doesn’t work is another thing, but why would any burst spec want this? The bit of healing power they get will be pretty meaningless for them since stuff doesn’t scale that well and they do not have that much access to healing anyways. Adding more healing as defense is not really that great either, since what ele needs is more active defense, not running around in circles and healing.
Second of all, why would any support spec take this? They would be forced into traits that apply vulnerability, which would colide with other support traits. Makes no sense for me. Or just depend on the few vuln stacks from skills and imo that’s not worth it. LIke really, the worst thing you can do is to camp water on DD and spam AA. We need less camping, not more.
Tldr, Soothing Ice still would be better.
Well, that’s probably why warrior has 60% more hp than ele and is heavy class, not light.
Sure, I do think warriors need help in survability, but giving them protection and superspeed is not the right call imo. Their damage is insane and being able to catch most classes would probably just lead to some more qq on forums. Once bunkers are gone, warriors will have much higher impact.
Eles are definitively not dead! making that affirmation only shows the lack of creativity and ability to think outside the box to come with a build on your own and not copy paste from websites after being prooved affective.
Not only ele is still alive but with the new amulets it’s more dangerous (as of increased damage output) while keeping the option to be played as a bunker or keep its survibality as best.
I main ele, and kinda the only class I play and can tell than the DS nerf will only change the playstyle and opens many other alternatives that can be as effective and best of all doesn’t stop workinking under the 90% or even the 75% life. Won’t go into details but if boon corruption will be a thing on the new meta, ele can potentially become the counter after all is maybe the most versatile of all classes.
I wanna know how you become a counter to boon corrupt on 10 sec cd + AA when you depend on your boons to survive and have no way of preventing the necro from doing so. Oh wait, you do, you can just die to his condi burst.
MM is just preparing for the upcomping patch when it will be 4 thieves and one reaper. Sure, it’s not perfect yet, but they’re working on it, give them time.
Don’t care really. Thats generally my perferred method of balancing slaughtering an op class/build and driving off the FOTM trash for a development cycle or so and let some other classes/builds see the light of day. Its almost impossible to change classes/builds from OP to just run of the mills strong in one iteration. Smash away i say. Mesmer players are no more special then anyone else. Lots of classes/builds have been “unplayable” for extremely long periods of time. No one cares until it’s there perferred class that might be toward the bottom for a bit.
Mesmers have been completely unplayable except for 2 month periods once a year since launch for the most part. Ele has never not been in the meta, potentially changing now. Nerfs to mesmer, an already underpowered class except as bunkers which were already shaved to not being OP, is completely ridiculous and I pretty much think everyone who supports the nerf just can’t deal with the clone mechanic or is utterly insane. So far though the nerfs didn’t look that bad for shatter. But with thief buffs it’s completely irrelevant anyways because they will dominate the meta for a good while.
I would just like to point out that ele was out of meta for a year before they buffed celestial, you might wanna correct yourself.
While I don’t agree to trashing any class to the point you get flamed for playing it, I don’t think you realize that lots of classes have had the same one build issue for years. Ele never had anything else, but that one build, each time slightly different.
Fresh air was never viable enough to at least be in some serious tournaments, no one would play it. On the other hand shatter mesmers were played, not that much, but Helseth and Misha played it at least. I also don’t think shatter mesmer was in such a bad position, they were food for thieves, but nowhere near to unplayable.
Anyhow, this balance patch is a joke.
Well, when I started playing the game I went from one class to another until I tried ele. That was a long time ago, but ever since then I mostly played this one class. Since I pvped a lot I was always trying different classes, but in the end came back to ele.
For me it was exactly the number of possibilities that was entertaining. When I played other classes, I usually got bored quickly, but bear in mind that this comes down to a build. I played a bit of d/d ele back in the day and it wasn’t bad, but due to heavily depending on rotations it just wasn’t that much fun. But when playing fresh air, you could do anything you wanted. Sure, you needed to keep going back to air, but that was in time when this had 5 sec cd, so there was plenty of time for messing around. It was truly the only build I really enjoyed on ele. Sometimes I played d/d when my team begged me to, but thankfuly that wasn’t too often. However, it was a way stronger build than fresh air since FA was never really viable in pvp, let alone the competitive scene.
Well, then they butchered it and it made me kinda sad. I played that build for years and it was gone. Don’t get me wrong, I still tried to play it (and zerker not marauder), but quickly came down to realization it’s just not gonna work, especially after hot release.
So we got tempest and frankly that’s the most boring thing I ever played. Phantaram said when you play tempest, you press a button and it’s like the game plays for you. It’s true. You hold one button and wait for it to do the work. It’s rather based on decisions than rotations, but due to the attunement camping and long cast times it’s just not fun at all for me. I mean, even d/d was fun compared to this.
So in my opinion, ele has the potential to be a lot of fun to play, but due to balance and the elite spec it’s been going rather a boring direction and that’s why I stopped playing the game. I still go on forums, especially around big patches, cause I hope that they will make fresh air viable some day.
But after all, everyone is different and like different things. Ele was popular cause d/d ele was a fairly easy build to start with and on top of that it was also very strong. In pve it’s still one of the highest dps and that’s why people pick it. So tldr, people played it a lot because it was meta. You can also see way less eles now, since it’s not really that strong anymore and we’ll probably see even less after the patch hits.
(edited by Laraley.7695)
nope, no buffs
only nerfs to the visuals. Fireball should be renamed to Ember
Shocking Aura is now silent and nearly invisible
etc
That was acutally a visual buff.
Ele will be fine with out cele if …
…people stop trying to use the same builds they see today on metabattle and try to adapt and innovate.
I actually tried. I thought to myself (not really, but i gave it a shot), maybe we can run power builds now! Hell no, the damage ele does in pvp is completely pathetic, you die if anyone sneezes at you and if you wanna run more survability then you’ll be basically healing your enemies.
How about some hp ele? Yeah, try that without vit or toughness and we’ll see how long you’ll survive.
It comes down to the fact that the stats ele has are a complete joke. You wanna run support/bruiser build? Well, then you need exactly the stats on celestial amulet, that’s getting removed. You might try cleric, but it’s basically a suicide or Mender’s, but that’s completely the same, but you’ll be dying to different things. Hey, at least you can pick your poision.
Wanna play dps ele? Amazing, all you need to do is to reroll.
Sure, there are gonna be people making all kind of builds and then act like it totally works somewhere below the amber division, but in reality if ele is not getting some serious buffs, we’ll be seeing much less of the class, especially in tournaments and high lvl pvp. It’s how it works, there will be better classes to play and if playing ele is hurting your team, you probably should reroll. Just like warriors had to.
the likelihood is, Mercenaries holding 1050 Power 1050 Condi Damage 560 Tougness 560 Vit or Paladins 1050 Power 1050 Precision 560 Toughness 560 Vit will become the New amulet to go for, from there, Either a Might stacking Rune or a Toughness Stacking Rune to go with that depending on how much the changes fair.
We’ll prolly take some form of take of Fresh air on the build side of things, Likely more built to be abit more tanky but still hold the burst with low Sustained Damage, this to try output Damage but try our best to fend off the thieves with these huge buffs coming their way.
If this fails prolly become a pure Support role with clerics amulet and Durability runes.
With paladin/mercenary you’ll be lacking support, the reason ele was actually taken sometimes. Imo, scrapper or maybe druid would do better than ele after the changes by far.
With cleric you’re dead. I mean really, with the new DS you cannot afford to take an amulet without vitality and expect not to die to buffed reapers.
Also, pretty sure they’re removing Durability runes.
Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.
What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?
Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.
So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.
Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.
I would say something basically is wrong here.
So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.
This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.
However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.
I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.
Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.
Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.
Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.
Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.
> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait linesIn what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?
It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.
Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.
Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.
Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.
Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.
Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)
You’re right. Lots people were using fire because of BA and also because without fire you lack a lot of damage. It usually was F/A/Arcana or F/A/Water. The survability from having both water and arcana or earth wasn’t boosted that much to justify the damage loss. Basically, if you wanna do some decent damage, you need fire.
Obviously, I meant that Arcana has defensive traits.
Again, he claimed our Phoenix hits nearly as much as new thief’s AA, which is not true. Thieves usually spec most of their stuff to damage and he wants to compare a build that specs mostly into defense to something like this? Please.
To be 100% honest Karl in that twich was hitting an heavy target golem without extra toughness from runes and damage mitigation traits. So a Phoenix can surely hit more than 5k vs a target golem.
But it doesnt change nothing, as I claimed, with all the damage mitigation that is around now, Phoenix is not more bursty as you can think.So Phoenix need a buff? God not. Other scepter and focus skill disperatly need it, and I hope next week’s patch will shave a bit the other tanky builds
What? No one was talking about golems, but actual players.
The problem is not only scepter, it’s the whole class and I am nearly sure the balance patch won’t make fresh air viable.
Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.
What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?
Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.
So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.
Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.
I would say something basically is wrong here.
So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.
This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.
However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.
I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.
Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.
Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.
Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.
Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.
> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait linesIn what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?
It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.
Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.Arcana is a mixed bag of things, whereas water and earth are clearly more aligned with defense.
Doesn’t really matter if FA was ever competitive, you still wouldn’t use a F/A/Ar build even if you were to use it, unless you were in PvE or just going yolo.
Again, theoretical damage is all nice and good, but if that’s not something we’ll use, there’s no point in bringing it up.
Random testimony from yours truly, F/A/Ar was actually an excellent choice before blinding ashes nerf. Sustain and cleanse over time was less valuable than blinds and burst cleanse from fire imo. For a long time it was the best pick (imo), and it’s still up there. You’d be hard-pressed to weigh the blind vs the ~1.5k heal/10s from water for example. Simply because there aren’t many abilities that hit less than 2k on a glass ele.
Just some food for thought. I ran a lot of fresh air at a respectable MMR. But then again I used icebow, so perhaps my opinion isn’t worth much :-)
You’re right. Lots people were using fire because of BA and also because without fire you lack a lot of damage. It usually was F/A/Arcana or F/A/Water. The survability from having both water and arcana or earth wasn’t boosted that much to justify the damage loss. Basically, if you wanna do some decent damage, you need fire.
Obviously, I meant that Arcana has defensive traits.
Again, he claimed our Phoenix hits nearly as much as new thief’s AA, which is not true. Thieves usually spec most of their stuff to damage and he wants to compare a build that specs mostly into defense to something like this? Please.
Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.
What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?
Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.
So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.
Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.
I would say something basically is wrong here.
So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.
This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.
However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.
I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.
Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.
Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.
Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.
Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.
> Scholar runes
> fire, air, arcane with no defensive trait linesIn what universe would that be a build that’s remotely realistic to use in competitive PvP given the current opposition? We all know ele has high theoretical damage, PvE proved that long ago. But what’s the point of all that potential damage if you can barely survive long enough to use it?
It’s pretty obvious that lucadiro tested the damage using some build that is more likely to be used than (nearly) full glass ele.
Arcana has defensive trait lines.
Fresh air was never viable in competitive PVP.
The post wasn’t about damage of the spec, but a skill that someone claimed hits 5K with only, which is unlikely. He runs lots of defensive stuff, sure, but his damage is so lacking, it’s not even worth it.
Celestial is a garbage amulet that is way over-represented in the current meta. Thats all we really need to know that it’s op the sheer number of meta builds that use it. If the classes that used this need some kind of compensation or other amulet fine. But this thing needs to go. Unfortunately a certain group of “pro” players that run a comp that uses this amulet on just about everyone is almost certainly running a propaganda campaign behind the scenes to save it. If A-net sticks to there guns it will change my opinion of theres a lot for the better.
Overrepresented? Please, explain how.
Mesmer – sentinel, no cele
Engi – marauder, no cele
Revenant – marauder/zerker, no cele
Druid – cele
Ele – cele
necro – carrion, possibly cele, viper?? lots of stuff
Thief – marauder/zerker
Warrior – dead
Last proleague:
4 games – tcg vs vm, orng vs 55
No elementalist
One person with cele – druid
4 mesmers – 4 sentinels
4 revenants – mostly viper
1 scrapper – marauder
Please, explain how this meta is the celestial amulet’s fault. There are two classes who runs the amulet exclusively, which is druid and elementalist. These classes are barely used in tournaments and somehow they’re responsible for the meta? Or maybe, I don’t know, it’s because of the fact everything got buffed to the point it’s breaking the game?
Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.
What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?
Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.
So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.
Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.
I would say something basically is wrong here.
So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.
This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.
However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.
Sure Phoenix hit hard, but how many time you can land Phoenix for 8K without putting into Focus Air 5 combo or water 4/5 combo?
During the same time, a Thief will click teleport and then auto attack, deliver the same damage.
For the people who can deliver that 8K damage over and over with fresh air/scepter/phoenix I have the biggest respect but tell me realistically how many times you can land that combo?
By landing the combo, you are displaying 10 times more talent then the average Thief but what its the reward you are getting.
For me to one thing to be fair, risk and reward must be proportional also.
Why the Thiefs risk must be 3 but reward 9 and S/X Ele risks must 9 and reward 5?
Well, I don’t think landing Pheonix is THAT hard. All you need is a bit of luck in terms of critting, not hitting when protection is on and getting at least three hits. I think this is possible to do consistently. I do understand what you’re saying, though. Pheonix is basically the only burst skill on scepter and it’s still a bit more difficult to pull off than other skills in game.
The problem is not only that, though. It’s been said over and over that fresh air survability and damage is not on par with other class and it’s true. You have to work harder for worse result than classes that are meta right now and that’s not right. This is why we’ve been asking for buffs to help this specs, it needs it in so many areas and if that doesn’t happen it will never be viable.
Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.
What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?
Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.
So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.
Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.
I would say something basically is wrong here.
So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.
This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.
However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.
I tried yesterday in a 1v1 arena. Vs a revenant without protection (assuming he had close quartier trait and durability runes) I hit him for 5k total for a 3hit Phoenix. Were all crits.
Just 1k more than the new thief’s AA on sword lol.
Well, first of all. Revenant is a heavy class, that’s one thing. It will obviously hit less.
Second of all, since I found that unlikely, I went to test it. Marauder, scholar on ele and zerker, durability on revenant, no might. Without protection I was getting 3.8K-4.5K hits on explosion and 1.5K-2K hits on rest (all crits). So you either didn’t land the explosion hit, didn’t crit or he had protection. Fyi, three hits with scholar runes on revenant without protection was nearly 9K. I obviously do not know what you run but 5K with all crits and three hits on marauder/zerker if revenant has no prot seems unlikely. The only difference was that he didn’t use Close Quarters, but that can be played around, too.
Third of all, Phoenix can hit more times than three, so you were missing damage there, too. However, it’s hard to consistently land more on a class such a revenant due to their mobility and evades. But imagine landing all hits and critting, the damage from the skill would be a lot.
Phoenix is one of the good skills on scepter, let’s not bash it.
Edit: Was running fire, air, arcana. I mean if you run some less damage oriented build, it’s normal you’ll be getting less damage, but that’s not the skill fault.
I welcome the new era of higher offense too. I was a long time critic of the extreme bunkers. However, I’m also a critic of the extreme burst. Neither of them are fun to play against.
What ANet needs is a reminder that we don’t want the insta-death meta either.
As if people didnt cry about high offense meta? remember the trait revamp update in 2015 before HOT release?
Well, that’s the issue, again. Neither of these are balanced. Having either bunker meta or burst meta is just not right. You should have meta where there are different roles, not one way or another.
I wouldn’t mind the nerfs if actually everything got nerfed to the level of warrior, including damage. Fact is everything is too strong and there’s too much power creep. Nerfing only some classes and leaving others untouched will only lead to another broken meta, it’s simple as that.
Don’t understand how some ppl still have problem with Helseth’s personality on stream. You really shouldn’t take it too srsly and I think he is probably a much nicer person in real life.
His role playing is actually really funny to me and one of the reasons I like his stream. There are a few other good streams as well. But none of theirs can give me as good a laugh as Helseth’s after a hard day’s work.
Of course, I also like his analysis of the game. There is a lot of ego in his videos. But they are still the most helpful ones out there. Most other videos may teach you a bit of mechanics. But his has so much focus on the mostly unnoticed details of the game. How to use terrain, interesting strategy of rotation etc.
Overall, I would definitely rate his stream the best out of all for gw2.
Well, I am not a fan of Helseth and I do not watch his stream anymore, but I seriously don’t get all this hate for him and Phantaram. They did nothing more than expressing their opinions and bringing some valid points. As far as I’m aware, everyone has the right to do that.
Then I look at some of the posts and see stuff like “omg, you talk bad about mesmer, glad ele is getting trashed.” Like what’s wrong with these forums?
Imo, they were right about portal and moa. Those skills are really strong and I don’t think you can have that along with shatter mesmer being strong, too. Maybe eventually they could rework the class so those skills aren’t mandatory while shatter mesmer is viable.
Revenents are FAR too strong, as it stands it is incredibly hard to take them if I run EVERY CORRUPT U CAN, if the changes make it more of a 50/50 matchup instead of 70/30 (in favor of rev) then that would be more balanced.
I think you just pointed out the problem.
Revenants are too strong. Too much damage, too much sustain.
Solution should be to nerf revenants (and most of other classes), not buff one class so they can have an even match up against them.
Seriously, two classes got trashed, two other didn’t really recieve nerf of buff and then some buffs. That is not how it should be at all. Everything is currently too strong, except warriors. Thieves are not even at such a bad place, they’re fine. If the remaining classes got some reasonable nerfs, we could actually see some balanced game.
So this is diamond these days?
Now they want to get rid of Celestial amulet.
However doesnt that leave us crippled if they dont change something about the Ele?Depends on the rest of classes, but it shouldn’t. Ele has one of the highest damage potentials in the game. Sure, you won’t be durable, but you still can spec hybrid damage if you want to take advantage of direct damage and burns. You just won’t be able to deal considerable damage while tanking like a pro.
What is the difference of Thief and Ele in current META?
Thief needs 2s to kill you, Ele needs 10s to kill anybody.
So if Ele can’t tank little bit to deliver its damage, how is it going to kill anybody. Ele has, in no weapon set, an attack that can deliver 8K damage in one skill, we out sustain people and kill them that way.
Now you take our sustain but then where is this 8K hit for us, we still don’t deal damage and die in one hit.
I would say something basically is wrong here.
So next META look like this, Thief kills people in 1s and Ele dies 1s and acts like a res bot.
This is not completely true. Cele was about sustaining and then killing your opponents, but not the damage oriented builds. Of course, those are gone now, but Pheonix was able to hit 8K. Sure, you had to land it perfectly, but that skill hit hard. I’m not sure about now, but it will still have decent damage.
However, there’s no way marauder staff ele will be a thing. It never was and never will be without complete revamp of the class. You have absolutely no survability and you’re rooted for several seconds to even get some damage on point. If not thieves, revenants or anything will eat you alive. People tried to make it work in the past, but it just never did.
Though you are probably right (due to anets history), lets not give up hope besides anger does not solve much in cases like this, it seems to just get them to not want to listen.
Well. then again, they never listened. Over the years there were tons and tons suggestions how to make fresh air and scepter better and those were never considered. I mean I don’t blame people for being mad. Before they at least kept the only cele build viable, but now it seems like that’s gone, too without any serious buff to fresh air builds.
Or, maybe, since we won’t be able to have all three defensive stats simultaneously anymore, they will finally give the ele the reasonable defensive baseline it has needed since launch to ever have more than one build.
Yes, but they’re not doing that. All we get is a Shatterstone buff and a bad diamond skin rework. Remember, 100% of the time when Anet “previewed” balance changes, those were 100% of the changes.
except that the previous balance patches took 6 hours to “preview” on Rubi’s livestream. they specifically mentioned in this livestream that they were not going to talk about all the changes because it would take way too long, and they wanted to keep the show down to an hour. so they pretty much previewed a change or two in each of the four categories they listed in their blog earlier in the week. that blog specifically mentioned plural changes to each category.
while this balance patch might not be as big a change as the specialization changes, there’s no way it’s as small as they previewed. i think the better word would have been “teaser” than “preview.”
but i’ll freely admit that i’m bacon deficient at this hour, and could very easily be asleep in left field without realizing it. (in other words, i could be way wrong about my prediction, too)
PS: maybe they need to shake things up like this, too: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/King-of-fires-suggestion/first#post5928814
/shrug
Well, logically if they talk about one of the biggest nerfs to ele and then throw shatterstone buff as the best thing for preview, I can’t really take them seriously and believe rest of the changes will be good. I might be wrong, sure. But I just highly doubt it.
As I said, DS is what really keeps ele being able to handle the condition pressure and without it, it’s very difficult since the condition generation is still higher.
Of course condition generation is higher than condition cleanses. If eles (or anyone else) where able to cleanse conditions as fast as conditions where applied then they would be effectively invulnerable to all condition classes.
You took that out of context. Obviously condition generation will be higher, but for ele it is so high that without DS it melts to condis.
Not only Revs, Eles and Guardians too rely almost exclusively on boons as defense.
At the very least Ele has a bunch of Condi Cleanses and Guardians have some as well.
Revenant has a laughable amount of condition cleansing.Not sure which condition clear you are referring to for elementalist when Healing Rain cast time is one second and an half for a whooping 2 condition cleansed (if traited) every 3 seconds for 6 seconds, with no easily accessible condi clears other than this (unless ice field is blasted, if traited, and projectile finishers on water, if traited).
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Water
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Torrents
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Rain
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Disruption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ether_Renewal
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stop,_Drop,_and_Roll
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning_FireAdd to that Diamond Skin and compare to:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purifying_Essence
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Renewing_Wave
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eluding_Nullification
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Channel
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Stone (Cleanses AFTER Healing)Don’t even come here and tell me Elementalist lacks Condition clears.
Reapers are getting more condition applications by a lot. I don’t play Diamond Skin and it is extremely hard to keep the condition clear to a supportable level. Yes, you could go Arcane Water Tempest, but then, what good will you do to the team; damage will be non-existant; and lets forget about tanky elementalist without proper amulets. Elementalist is a light armored class with lowest tier of life.
Given staff, Cleansing Wave competes against Aquamancer’s training and Soothing Disruption. Aquamancer means 30 seconds cooldown instead of 45 (or 12cr/min vs 8cr/min, if traited). Overload Water needs preperation and synergizes wrongly with Cleansing Wave, increasing the cooldown of the attunement to water (also synergizes wrongly with elemental attunement)…
I don’t give a single care about the condition clear of Revenants. You know what? Have fun with the Reaper condition spam, I don’t want to spend more time on this useless subject.
Elementalist has options against conditions, like them or not, so claiming that Elementalists have trouble with them is disingenuous at best.
He’s not wrong. Once DS is broken, elementalist melts to conditions in a teamght no matter how much condi clear you have.
Listing all the skills that remove conditions (when some of them are complete garbage, too) is a very poor argument for the amount of condi cleanse. A lot of these are competing with each other, so it only proves the class has a choice.
However, it’s not really all that great. As I said, DS is what really keeps ele being able to handle the condition pressure and without it, it’s very difficult since the condition generation is still higher.
Shatterstone just keeps padding its record as the most buffed skill in gw2. Not really the skill that got the most noteworthy buffs, just the skill that has gotten a lot of buffs that are technically buffs, but don’t really do anything.
How can you say that? One more vulnerability stack = 1% more dmg. And we all know 1>0.
Also, PLEASE dont make the solution (if any are to come at all) another thing like cele to carry the class and not giving ele what it needs to be viable in different roles.
Dw, they won’t add another thing like cele, it’s be exactly cele. I bet you they will readd the amulet in a year or so, because there’s no other option besides fixing the class completely and they’re not capable of doing that.
Funny moments in pvp? Balance preveiw, nearly cried.
Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack
That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.
However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.
And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.
The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.
A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.Yes, because you will outrun a revenant with superspeed.
That’s not the point, though. The point is that they shouldn’t have nerfed one thing on a class but buff it on another.
*They will only have superspeed for 10 seconds max and will completely susceptible to CC and Immobilize.
Anyway, yes, I agree. They’re just going to make Thieves into a problem.
10 sec max? That’s 5 AA chains, you’ll be long dead. Not to mention they can swap legends and get energy back after 9 seconds. Let’s not act like the damage wasn’t over the top. It is with most skills anyways.
It’s 10% damage buff that lasts 5s. You can’t get the Overload damage there, so it’s actually not that big of a buff. Also, you only get the most out of it if you cap your crit. I’m glad that at least there is a buff for glass ele though.
But its 10% you did not have before it all stacks up. Your overload for the +10% dmg then swap out of air for fresh air to trigger giving you +10% crit dmg. Staff user will not get that much use out of the buff but dagger and scpter user will get a lot.
True, 10% dmg boost for 5 sec will make fresh air the new opop. Prepare your scepter boys, time to kill everything with yourr 10% dmg boost.
In reality, if you’re going to do mostly fractals and open world pve, then yes cleric is mostly useless. You’d want a mix of assassin and zerker.
Open world pve, same as above.
Dungeons are so meaningless and unpopulated that it doesn’t matter, but dps gear would still be your best bet. I mean, you don’t want to spend ages in an instance just so you can feel good about healing your teammates who are on full hp if they can find their dodge button.
For raids it would be okay for tank/heal ele, but druids might be prefered. Depends on your group.
For wvw, you’d probably want celestial. I guess you can go cleric, too.
For pvp, you want celestial, but it’s an amulet, no need to get gear. But it’s getting removed, aynways.
Thankyou! All of my Exotic gear is Zerker, and I have a set of Cleric gear that USED to be magic find before the overhaul and I find more use for the Zerker stuff, but was hoping the more elder game would have a use for the healing stuff, but I guess not.
Zerker it is then, thanks!
It’s really only seen in raids where the healing has some meaning, sadly.
Also, I wouldn’t go for zerker only, you’ll need some assassiin pieces. I would also wait for the balance patch before making ascended gear, it probably won’t change anything, but just to be sure.
Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack
That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.
However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.
And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.
The counter-play is the same as any other strong AA: Don’t stand still.
A Necro will annihilate you with Dagger autos, but obviously you won’t just sit there and take it.
Now, with Quickness, Rev Sword becomes pretty strong, but that’s also a good investment of energy that wont allow Riposting Shadows use and force a Legend swap.
With the new change, we’re now going to be forced into spamming a terrible projectile attack, but with more burst.
Either Sword will become trash or people will complain about 9k bursts every 4 seconds.
Yes, because you will outrun a revenant with superspeed.
That’s not the point, though. The point is that they shouldn’t have nerfed one thing on a class but buff it on another.
Thief dmg boost toughtless hmm cuz thief deals less dmg with backstab than Rev on autoattack
That hyperbole.
I don’t think I’ve ever hit that hard with an autoattack.
In fact, the only good burst move Revenant has right now is Hammer 2.
Because, you simply can’t. Every rev sword AA has way lower base damage and coeficient than backstab (assuming you hit back). The chain does take over 2 sec, but with quickness it’s obv faster. Imo, the damage on the AA is too high and there’s zero counterplay to revenant AAing you to death. So the nerf was justified.
However, buffing thief AA? So sword will be even faster than dagger? The damage is already high, and it was never the problem for thief.
And AA shouldn’t be burst damage.
I would just appreciate if people stopped calling this cele/ele bunker meta, because that’s not even close.
Mesmers were more prominent, they were using sentinel amulet mostly.
Watched two games of the last prolague – orng vs 55 and tcg vs vm. Result?
Two mesmers on each team – sentinel amulet
Two revenants on each team – viper/power
Either a druid – cele or scrapper – marauder
And it was still painful to watch. Bear in mind, there was always only ONE person using a celestial amulet. So no, this wasn’t caused by the amulet, but rather mechanics of the class.
There was no ele.
The problem lies somewhere else. Completely trashing ele and hurting mesmer a lot while leaving scrappers nearly untouched is not the way to fix the game, you’re just breaking it more. If it was only that, but also buffing thieves and reapers to the point they might just be gamebreaking? Just, why?
New amulets might save mesmer from being completely bad, but it sure as hell won’t save ele. Is removing classes from a game mode the way this game should be heading? Ofc not, you should be aiming at balancing classes so every single one has a role in the current metagame. Too hard, it seems. Nerfing some, buffing some? The only class that needed a buff was warrior.
Be happy. Ever since anet started balancing pvp, it’s been going downhill.
You’re not buffing offensive side of tempest, you’re buffing auras.
They nerfed auras on ele.
They think it is too strong.
??
In reality, if you’re going to do mostly fractals and open world pve, then yes cleric is mostly useless. You’d want a mix of assassin and zerker.
Open world pve, same as above.
Dungeons are so meaningless and unpopulated that it doesn’t matter, but dps gear would still be your best bet. I mean, you don’t want to spend ages in an instance just so you can feel good about healing your teammates who are on full hp if they can find their dodge button.
For raids it would be okay for tank/heal ele, but druids might be prefered. Depends on your group.
For wvw, you’d probably want celestial. I guess you can go cleric, too.
For pvp, you want celestial, but it’s an amulet, no need to get gear. But it’s getting removed, aynways.
Normalizing everyone to 15k base health would go a long way in giving classes more build diversity and making the game overall more balanced.
Or even make the tiers 14k, 15k and 16k base health, so you still have some variation but nothing gamebreaking.
10k base health is simply unplayable in a game where there are skills that can crit for 9+k damage.
I don’t think having 10K hp is the main problem. It never was before really. You just took vit from traits or before that from jewels. The problem is there are things that hit as hard as 9K. The power creep has been the problem.
10k base health wasn’t as much of a problem back when you would get stats from traits and could use a different jewel in your amulet.
Now that all those things to get stats from are gone, 10k base health means that every amulet that doesn’t have vitality is automatically unusable. So you NEED vitality, and then you NEED power/crit/ferocity because eles can’t do condition damage really.
So much for amulet choice.
Again, you wouldn’t have to if they actually didn’t increase the damage output, but lower it so it corelates with the reduced healh pools – power creep.
Corrupt boon change is not too bad of a powercreep, the scepter aa chain is. Idk what they are thinking making a fricking auto attack corrupt a boon. If you go through with it at least make it on crit corruption.
I could be wrong, but I think it’s an Answer to things like Memser sword Auto (and general boon removal), trying to differentiate the scepter, but being single target and ranged as opposed to cleave and melee, and corruption is a Necromancer thing rather than removal. I think they wanted to ensure Necros were remaining the best Boon removers and to make them an anti-bunker/bruiser niche.
I mean if you consider how frequently a full chain will be used it’s not as scary as you’d think, much like Memser sword, it’s the added conditions and coverage that I find will be the stronger selling point. Turning stability into fear and quickness into slow from an auto is going to ruin dreams.
Somehow, I think a 60 sec cd shouldn’t be countered by AA.
Warriors can get Quickness on a 15 second cooldown and Revenants get Stability on much shorter cooldowns.
Not saying your point isn’t correct, far from it, just saying that trying to tie boon types with particular cooldowns doesn’t work.
I understand that, but it only proves my point. Some classes will be heavily punished if they have long cooldowns on stability (Armour of earth, Balanced stance) while other classes won’t be affected so much by the removal since they can generate the boon too quickly. Therefore, countering a 60/75 sec cd with AA is not right imo.
Never said, I thought it’s okay with mesmer either.
Corrupt boon change is not too bad of a powercreep, the scepter aa chain is. Idk what they are thinking making a fricking auto attack corrupt a boon. If you go through with it at least make it on crit corruption.
I could be wrong, but I think it’s an Answer to things like Memser sword Auto (and general boon removal), trying to differentiate the scepter, but being single target and ranged as opposed to cleave and melee, and corruption is a Necromancer thing rather than removal. I think they wanted to ensure Necros were remaining the best Boon removers and to make them an anti-bunker/bruiser niche.
I mean if you consider how frequently a full chain will be used it’s not as scary as you’d think, much like Memser sword, it’s the added conditions and coverage that I find will be the stronger selling point. Turning stability into fear and quickness into slow from an auto is going to ruin dreams.
Somehow, I think a 60 sec cd shouldn’t be countered by AA.
I would agree if chill was an effect and not a condition that can be removed by condition removal as well as traits and abilities that specifically remove movement impairing conditions.
Let’s make chill less relevant to other classes because reaper has too much of it? Just hit reapers instead.
Nerfing reapers wont fix the issue, other classes like ele, rev and engi has plenty of access to it
LOL? Ele has a single skill which chills for like 2 seconds on a 30 second cooldown.
This page makes your statement false. Along with all the access to frost aura
Well, in his defense, he was sort of right. Sure, ele has more chill than that, but look at ths skills.
Several of them are from ice bow – unused in pvp.
Other ones are from elementals – unused in pvp.
Glyphs – unused in pvp.
Signet of water – never used anywhere.
Then we’re down to one skill on three weapons sets – one on staff, dagger and focus. So it’s either 0, 1 or 2 per weapon set. Most common is one. Not to mention the focus one is ridiculous.
Then you have one shout and frost aura. So in reality it’s not that many skills with chill ele has.
Frost aura is what actually generates chill for ele. Sure, I understand that since ele can share the aura, it’s hard not to get chilled, but technically it’s not chill only from ele.
On the other hand, I’ve seen people pewpewing eles with their AA when frost aura is on and still trying to chase them. I imagine these are the people who complain about ele having chill.
Let’s also talk about how ele is the class punished the most by chill. It affects attunements swaps, which are basically weapon swaps for ele. Surely, it’s not a weapon swap in the common sense, but ele is balanced around having lots skills on high cooldowns. To be able to use those skills, you need to be able to swap attumenets. Oh, you can’t? Too bad, since your survability is in the attunement you cannot swap to. It has always been an issue and before when fresh air was at least somehow viable when thief applied 10 sec chill and you were without removal, it was what killed you.
Now, let’s talk about why thief actually stole chill from you. Well, the same way they stole fear from necro. It was a condition that was supposed to be prominent with these classes. Is it this way now? Yes and no. Reaper still has the most fear and is able to do damage with it, but reaper also has the most chill and is able to do damage with it.
So my question is, how can anyone complain about ele having too much chill when it comes from you attacking the ele when Frost aura is on? Without that ele has basically no chill generation and is still punished by the condition the most.
Well, the problem is there’s a powercreep in both ways. Oh now we have too much boon generation? Let’s add boon removal. Too much boon removal? Let’s add more boons. What they needed to do was just so simply nerf every single thing and go from there, but meanwhile they’re just adding on the pile of broken things.
We didn’t have so many boons before, it was mainly the survival mechanics/support of ele and guardian, but today? Nearly every class has some access to it. It seems like they’re going the direction ‘’when in doubt, just slap a boon on it.’’ On the other hand, right now the boon generation is insane also because of mesmers sharing it. Once they’re gone? Who knows, but adding more power creep is not the way they should be heading.
Normalizing everyone to 15k base health would go a long way in giving classes more build diversity and making the game overall more balanced.
Or even make the tiers 14k, 15k and 16k base health, so you still have some variation but nothing gamebreaking.
10k base health is simply unplayable in a game where there are skills that can crit for 9+k damage.
I don’t think having 10K hp is the main problem. It never was before really. You just took vit from traits or before that from jewels. The problem is there are things that hit as hard as 9K. The power creep has been the problem.
Or, maybe, since we won’t be able to have all three defensive stats simultaneously anymore, they will finally give the ele the reasonable defensive baseline it has needed since launch to ever have more than one build.
Yes, but they’re not doing that. All we get is a Shatterstone buff and a bad diamond skin rework. Remember, 100% of the time when Anet “previewed” balance changes, those were 100% of the changes.
I’d rather suffer through an entire PvP season with nothing to do with my Ele than go through who knows how many more seasons with one single build. And in the end, that may just be what it takes to get the developers to finally admit their design mistakes concerning the ele and the attunement system.
And then what? They’ll probably just readd celestial. Do you think they’re actually capable of reworking the class? They know the issues now. If they wanted to fix them, they would do it already.
Ele was garbage, they buffed celestial, problem solved.