Guild Wars 2

PowerBottom.5796:

Yepp, the Scepter buffs really made me happy as wel, can’t w8 to test them out. I’d be very happy if Fresh Air finally turned out to be a viable build, since it’s one of the hardest and most fun builds to play.

I don’t think that’s gonna happen. Sure, the buffs are nice, but they’re rather small and won’t have enough impact to make scepter freah air viable. The damage will still be lacking, while the survability might be better due to other things being nerfed. For fresh air to be viable, there would have to be pretty big buffs, not just minor tweaks on a few skills. Shatterstone again is rather ridiculous.

FrownyClown.8402:

These changes won’t fix underlying core ele issues IMO. Plus it would just make air overload over the top in terms of easy aoe damage. Bolt to the heart damage modifier is too good to be a master trait. Maybe if it was on enemies at 25% health i’d agree to having it there.

Buff fire to support condition builds so people could use mercenary amulets, buff scepter cast times and possibly reduce cooldowns on arcane skills.

Arcane traitline needs a few changes to compete with tempest now too.

Air is probably the last trait line that needs to be touched.

We used to be able to take both Bolt to the heart and fresh air (33%) and even at that point ele never saw much play in the competitive scene. Sure, it had some burst, but it still had the issues it has now – lack of sustained damage. The difference is the burst is now lower, too.

mrauls.6519:

The ele profession might need a redesign. I get that it’s a good healer, but that hurts PvP more than it helps. Especially since we’re not supposed to have a trinity, just DPS

Actually no, we’re supposed to be able to do anything on any class, not just dps. That’s what they advertised, but due to balance it simply comes down to the point where a certain class will be better at something than the other.

This thread makes no sense. Nerf healing so people play dps? More like nerf healing so people don’t play ele at all.

Cynz.9437:

@Dirtyrascal.1023:
- old system wasn’t looking for 50/50 matches most of the time
- old system promoted farming, there was literary no difference wether you are good or bad player, you just had to farm matches; it was literary old farmboards with sprinkles

Oh hey, there’s a solution. MMR based divisions, poof all problems gone.

ronpierce.2760:

Laraley.7695:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.

The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).

Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.

Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.

You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.

And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.

Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.

I wonder what you’re gonna do once most soloq players quit the game and you’ll have insanely long queue times. Getting a team should not be a solution to a poorly implemented system.

Getting a team should not be the answer to how to get better and go further in “Rated” pvp… Come on now… Why do you people even want competition at all… Just put quarters in a machine and get something from a slot machine.

I do sympathize with the few who unfortunately got tanked rating, but I’m betting that’s less than people think. I think more so, this just showed where people really were as far as MMR goes, now that no one is being teamed with them to carry their slack, in more cases than not.

No, getting a team shouldn’t be an answer to a system where solo players get punished, simple as that.

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.

The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).

Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.

Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.

You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.

And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.

Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.

I wonder what you’re gonna do once most soloq players quit the game and you’ll have insanely long queue times. Getting a team should not be a solution to a poorly implemented system.

Roman God of War.6953:

Laraley.7695:

Infusion.7149:

Laraley, you’re confusing viable with optimal

I’m not confusing anything. If I win some games with turret engi, does it mean it’s viable? Of course not. No one ever said that you can’t make a build work in certain enviroment. Viable = being able to be competitive on some decent level. Optimal = the best you can play. I think you’re the one confusing stuff. If viable in your opinion means to be able to get to Sapphire with some build, we can call everything viable. Don’t forget there were warriors getting to legend last season and that class was far from viable.

So if he gets to Sapphire which FYI is not just a FEW games. Then yes it is viable. His clearly contributing in a proper manner to his team’s other wise he would never get out of emerald. And I hope we can matched sometime so you can what a fresh air ele can do IMO it’s best counter to reaper meta

Marauder fresh air ele? Not much, really. I played that spec for years before it got several nerfs till it became unviable. We saw one or two in pro matches years ago, now? Nothing. The fact somoene gets to Sapphire still doesn’t mean he plays on some decent level.

Supreme.3164:

Valik Shin.9027:

Ok so I didn’t read the whole thread but if u think Ele is in a bad spot u don’t know what ur talking about. Shout auramancer is almost un killable except by boon corruption builds and pumps out tons of team support. It is the new shout bow only better

And it takes a way above average ele to pull that off, under no circumstances current support ele is as easy as shoutbow was…..like bad shoutmancer get instakilled by anything, so don’t go talking non-sense, playd with several shoutmancers lately and they all insta die the second they get focused

Yeah, nonsense. It’s an easy build, one of the easiest ele has had.

Simply put, yes you’re lucky.

Because new people start with average MMR. Best decision ever, right?

Wing.5487:

Did you even watch the video? Died? Threw? Afk people? Video was meant to show tankiness and survivability of an elementalist. Your mindless comment makes no sense.
The fact that I stalled 2 people on enemy home point got us a win from a 100point dissadvantage..
I know its hard when you want to appear cool and thrash me and my video but please check your facts before you do so because your comment only made you look dumb @laraley

You should probably reread what I said.

Infusion.7149:

Laraley, you’re confusing viable with optimal

I’m not confusing anything. If I win some games with turret engi, does it mean it’s viable? Of course not. No one ever said that you can’t make a build work in certain enviroment. Viable = being able to be competitive on some decent level. Optimal = the best you can play. I think you’re the one confusing stuff. If viable in your opinion means to be able to get to Sapphire with some build, we can call everything viable. Don’t forget there were warriors getting to legend last season and that class was far from viable.

rwolf.9571:

Supreme.3164:

EPYON.2731:

Please fire the MMR Programmers & back S1 MMR.

One word: NO

S1 was a complete nightmare for me, still managed to make it to diamond entirely as solo player but then I quitted..I simply had enough to be matched with players who were clearly far below my skill level.

Right now I’m playing with people that I don’t need to babysit every kitten second, they will stomp/disengage/properly/ rotate/regroup/ress…without me telling them!

I’m just glad they got rid of that stupid 50/50 rule

Last season you could get diamond players that would tri-cap or go boss from start, fight off point, zerg move around the map…like seriously? diamond level players that play like hotjoiners

This PvP system is fantastic…that’s it, best piece of work from the PvP team in over 3 years

What are you smoking? I also solo q’d to diamond, but all I get is ppl 3 capping, not rotating, head smashing into mid with a 1 v 3, rushing lord, etc.

That’s because he’s the lucky one being matched against worse teams. If he was on the opposite side, he would be complaining, too.

Dahir.4158:

lucadiro.4519:

Roman God of War.6953:

I know of at least 3 builds that work. Fresh air. Auramancer. I have a home cooked variance that uses fresh air. I’m not too far from sapphire

Never seen a fresh air tempest in match since the legue started, only cleric EWT

Made my way to Sapphire by only using my condi ele tempest build. It works wonders in both pvp and wvw.

Just because you or someone else gets to Sapphire with some build doesn’t mean it’s viable.

Dojo.1867:

All the complainers should just stop and give the system a chance.

Yes, you will lose a lot if you had a mediocre MMR at the start of the season. At the start the whole thing is rather snowballish. Good people get equally good allies and a team like that will obviously steamroll.

This simply doesn’t make any sense. All the good people would have to fight only worse opponents and that’s impossible since everyone starts in the same division. The correct claim would be that lucky people with decent mmr will get equally good allies. Unless you’re the top 5 people playing at any given time, you have a chance of facing both better and worse teams, significally may I add. And this further leads to inaccuracies in MMR.

R O C.6574:

Cynz.9437:

Laraley.7695:

Cynz.9437:

R O C.6574:

Chaba.5410:

Glad no one can see their MMR. Players would just use that information to game the system by figuring out what actions they can take in a match to raise it and avoid all actions that lower it.

Do you have an example of such an exploit?

google for wow arena mmr exploits – people always found some way to exploit the system because they saw their mmr

Yes, because we have had absolutely zero exploits in gw2 so far.

so let’s add more?

It looked like WOW implemented a ban on players caught win trading. It didn’t really makes sense though because both teams had to be in on the scam. How could you be sure you were going to match up with the team helping you exploit?

You wouldn’t.

In dota 2 you can due to the fact you can pick several regions for matchmaking and some have very little people, hence you have a higher chance of getting matched against your bot team. In gw2? Unlikely.

Helly.2597:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

snip.

Exactly. I think ANET made the mistake of implementing the leagues as they did with the pip system. A better system imo would have been assigning a value to each player based on mmr (or just the calculated mmr itself works), then adding or subtracting mmr from the player based on win probability (lower chance of win means less lost from losing and more gained from winning, aka how mmr works). And then instead of pips, had each division based on mmr ranges where you got rewards for moving up throughout the “season.” That way the rewards would have based on actual improvement in your own play, since you would be more consistently matched in equal skilled matchups.

Of course this is all kitten cause of how anet combined soloq and teamq which would have to be separated (or the mmr calculation changed to make it “fair”) during seasons.

Well obviously MMR based divisions would be the best along with soloq, but I don’t think they’ll ever do this since they do not want to make MMR public.

Cynz.9437:

R O C.6574:

Chaba.5410:

Glad no one can see their MMR. Players would just use that information to game the system by figuring out what actions they can take in a match to raise it and avoid all actions that lower it.

Do you have an example of such an exploit?

google for wow arena mmr exploits – people always found some way to exploit the system because they saw their mmr

Yes, because we have had absolutely zero exploits in gw2 so far.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Laraley.7695:

Cynz.9437:

Helly.2597:

Cynz.9437:

snip

If someone has a high enough mmr to balance out for being matched up against the entirety of the abjured it wouldn’t be fun for his team, but it would be considered fair yes.

Balancing the mmr on each team seems to be a superior way to match players. It does get skewed with how Anet does not separate solo and team queue though.

I can use the example of dota 2 in how it uses an mmr average to match the teams who play against each other in rmm (ranked match making). As long as anet sets an acceptable mmr range that slowly expands (until a max range so it doesn’t expand forever) as the queue time increases it should be acceptable.

Now the issue with mmr has always been the extreme cases. High or low extremes will always cause imbalances in the matchmaking. However if your mmr is so high supposedly according to the game you should be able to carry your team to a victory in 50% of the games.

You do understand that if that suggestion was implemented divisions would never balance out?

How wouldn’kitten People around the same MMR would be matched against people around the same MMR. This is the fairest matchmaking you can get. A guy with high enough MMR to balance out being matched againt the whole abjured team is an extreme case that doesn’t even exist.

Edit: I have no clue why “How wouldn’t it” was censored into kitten.

last 3 letters are rude… apparently.

Yeah but you can say ‘phuk’ as much as your like… go figure.

What you’re suggesting would make every match fair and challenging. However this isn’t what a lot of Higher Tiered people want because it means more work climbing up the ranks. This could all be offset though if they started in higher ranks.

I don’t understand why we have to prefer a system that’s perfect for a few top players and hell for many others, that makes absolutely zero sense. Simply enough if they reset MMR, they wouldn’t have to climb harder than an average player, why is that so hard?

Cynz.9437:

Helly.2597:

Cynz.9437:

snip

If someone has a high enough mmr to balance out for being matched up against the entirety of the abjured it wouldn’t be fun for his team, but it would be considered fair yes.

Balancing the mmr on each team seems to be a superior way to match players. It does get skewed with how Anet does not separate solo and team queue though.

I can use the example of dota 2 in how it uses an mmr average to match the teams who play against each other in rmm (ranked match making). As long as anet sets an acceptable mmr range that slowly expands (until a max range so it doesn’t expand forever) as the queue time increases it should be acceptable.

Now the issue with mmr has always been the extreme cases. High or low extremes will always cause imbalances in the matchmaking. However if your mmr is so high supposedly according to the game you should be able to carry your team to a victory in 50% of the games.

You do understand that if that suggestion was implemented divisions would never balance out?

How wouldn’kitten People around the same MMR would be matched against people around the same MMR. This is the fairest matchmaking you can get. A guy with high enough MMR to balance out being matched againt the whole abjured team is an extreme case that doesn’t even exist.

Edit: I have no clue why “How wouldn’t it” was censored into kitten.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Wouldn’t an MMR reset be kinda worse because everyone would be at average tier and it would be just luck if you got the good average or the bad average players.

Seeing as there would be more variables and not only “Will I get a way better or way worse team?”, no.

Fluffball.8307:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

And this is exactly what has happened to decent players who have come into this season and had unlucky matchups – perhaps against whole teams of pro-leaguers – in their first few games causing their MMR to tank – thus putting them on even worse teams.

I ran into pro-leaguers twice on the first night, probably one of the few on this forum that can claim that since there aren’t a lot of them statistically, and they progressed quickly. I lost both those games. And I’ve won pretty much everything since. Losing a few games isn’t going to put you into a never ending death spiral, people just thought they were better than they actually are. MMR is not so fragile that losing a game tanks it.

That is not correct. You can end up in a never ending death spiral, just because you didn’t doesn’t mean it won’t happen to other players. Their MMR should reflect how good they are, not what they think. If a player with any MMR but the lowest goes on 10+ losing streak, something is wrong.

Mightybird.6034:

Blackdagger.9670:

no I did not take a break before season start. I was playing unranked on that offseason period and was winning many games, was playing with %70 win ratio there. Now I lose 6-7 in a row. Doesn’t make any sense.

Strange. One more theory I just read. Brand new players were given average MMR coming into this season instead of starting at 0 (no idea if this is fact).

So if you happen to be average or a bit above average and happened to get paired with them in your first few games, well you’d just keep dropping and be more likely to get worse players.

I’m pretty stumped though, because I am at least average. I use meta builds, I pay attention to the minimap, I don’t do stupid stuff, I’ve PvP’d for 2 years, and have played all classes except warrior. So I should be winning at least 50-50. But like you go on 10-12 loss streaks. and am paired with brand new players that are fighting off point, don’t know what tranq buff is, go ham and die on beast, spam their abilities, etc.

The whole system is flawed. Unless you’re the very top player (lets say 5%), you’re gonna have blowout matches depending on luck. The pip range which is considered by matchmaking is big enough to create unwinnable/unlosable matches. Needless to say this will make MMR completely inaccurate. I honestly have no clue why there was no MMR reset.

Jelzouki.4128:

I have solo q’d about 16 matches into PvP season 2 and I have won every single one by a blowout. The amount of people on these forums who are complaining at the start of the season are absolutely terrible because I am getting paired with nothing but terrible teammates and opponents. Carrying the team is easy when your opponents are double capping points and ignoring far completely (while staggered from deaths). It’s really funny to actually see how many bad players are on these forums. It’s really hard to tell when I will actually start losing.

If you’re getting paired with terrible teammates it simply means your MMR is similar to theirs.

On another note, what are you gonna do once you start being placed on the team with lower average MMR? I imagine there can’t be anything worse than double capping.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

The thing with this system is it will balance out in the end. At a certain time the lower MMR players will face eachother because they are the only people within the pip/division search range. HOWEVER this might take a decent chunk of time to balance out. If it takes too long to calibrate everyone, then this system is totally not worth it because you will spend way too much time playing garbage quality games.

I still prefer a balanced team vs balanced team setup over this current setup.

The problem is it still won’t be accurate. There will be people with lower MMR than their actual MMR and there will be people with higher MMR than their actual MMR, further increasing the inaccuracy this system brings.

Anyhow, this is the first game I’ve played where you start playing the game and get an average MMR. In other games, new players start at the bottom/calibrate. It’s ridiculous to have this and then not consider MMR of both teams (never seen this either). I’m not sure what gw2 is trying to create, but with every pvp season it gets worse and worse.

Pakkazull.6894:

TPMN.1483:

No point playing right now at all – lose a few – lower your MMR…
Cycle continues…

Get paired then with people who are DC’ing or are clueless …
Cycle continues downhill…

Uninstall.

If your goal was to make a completely pointless off-topic post, you succeeded. Take your whining elsewhere.

He’s not wrong. Imagine a person with low MMR, who gets better in time. While his skill level will rise, it won’t reflect on his MMR. Since the lower your MMR is, the more you have low MMR people on your team. You lose, your MMR gets lower > You get worse people > You lose > etc. and individual progress won’t matter at all.

And anyone can experience this. All it takes is being unlucky and getting a losing streak, which seems not to be too hard at the moment. Due to the fact everyone started in amber, it’s pure luck if you get on the team with higher MMR. I doubt MMR was accurate at this point, but definitely won’t be after this season. You simply cannot introduce such a system without MMR reset.

Teutos.8620:

vulneraria.4865:

The only solution I could find, was, that the MMR system does not represent our skills anymore.
^
this…lucky average ppl have got huge winning streak because their are carried by pro player, unlucky average ppl got the opposite.

A bit of topic, but yeah, ArenaNet managed to create Elo-Hell.

The term Elo-Hell is very popular in other games. It does not exist there and is only representing the players who are suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect.

But GW2 has managed to create it.

Let’s take Bob as an example with a very low MMR of 300. Since his MMR is far lower than the average, he will lose more games than he will win (due to the match making algorithm explained in my post above). Because he lost more games, his MMR will suffer more and therefore, he will have the higher chance of ending up on the team with the lower skilled players. (The top players will have moved out of the range, but there will still be a skill difference between the players.)

Even if Bob would finally learn2play at the same level as an average player, Bob has no chance to escape this cycle since most of the time, his teammates will be at the bottom of the MMR for a reason.

In the past, the teams would have been equal regarding the MMR. There, it would have made a huge difference for Bob to improve his gameplay.

Well, I think Bob is kittened.

On another note, I think this is the worst system so far. What’s the point of creating unbalanced games by default? I don’t get it at all.

I haven’t played a single game and probably not going to, but looking at these screenshots makes me wonder how people can think matchmaking is better now. Most of the games the losing team doesn’t have 300 points and in many cases it’s even under 100 pts. This is far from balanced games.

Eventually, it will become grind again. Because of the fact you’ll be matched with people around your amount of pips and MMR (without reset), it’ll come down to everyone being to climb again. There’s really no sense of accomplishing anything if all you need to do is to wait till better players are in a different division. And I seriously don’t get why everyone starts in amber and there’s no MMR reset.

(Edit: This whole system is still flawed due to the fact your own MMR depends on 4 other people you get matched with along with the fact there’s no soloq, but that’s another story. And no, one single player simply cannot carry 4 others. If the difference in skill is huge, it doesn’t matter how well he plays.)

What exactly should we see in the video?

That you spammed your skills, missed your skills, random dodged, clicked your skills, ran around against people who were standing on a node afk and then proceed to feed and throw the game?

Yea mate, proves a lot.

Shadelang.3012:

If magnetic aura effected only a single target. Or affected an area that the person it was protecting had to stay inside to benefit from. It would likely still have its old duration.

You do realize most auras only affect the person that casted it unless you take a GM trait for aura share?

MMOS will never truly be esports, no matter what you do.

I hate to break it down to you but cleric ele is exactly the same as cele ele, not hard to play. It’s actually more forgiving in terms of support, you spam heals over and over. You don’t even need to think about it.

Ele is trash tier, since what’s currently is played isn’t ele. It’s a healbot who wouldn’t be touched if guardiands or druids were better in support/there was no stacking rule. So is the class fine? Not really, it’s been pushed over and over into one build which is getting more and more strict. We used to be play fresh air at some decent level, that’s long gone.

Tempest is not what ele used to be in terms of playstale and definitely not what the class should have been or what they presented it as. While there was one ele on each team, there are less and less eles in unranked. It’s not like they took ele because it’s good, they took it because they had no other choice in terms of support.

Hammerguard.9834:

Alekt.5803:

Kayberz.5346:

Lol at all the bad ele players
“ohmugerd anet might as well delete ele! We’re trash tier without the 40% extra stat cele amulet to carry us, ele wont be run at all now!”

Yeah…..ok….

You don’t understand. D/F auramancer is elementalist in its most alienated state. It’s only a heal bot that keeps alive stronger classes. This has been known already; and it’s not the role true elementalist player wish to have.

This. It’s not about the strength of the class but a role a team needed to round out their comp while other professions would just add redundancy.

It’s just a healbot who wouldn’t be taken if any other support class was better at spamming heals. It’s also way worse if you’re not in organized groups, definitely not something good to soloq with.

Most of the top eles who used to play the class switched to something different, the playstyle changed drastically. It’s far from the vision they had when they created the class.

Spooko.5436:

u can try and minimize this,

but the point is, you gotta bring the right tool to the job, sure it was skyhammer, and i played knockback engi, regardless

i still destroyed a premade in a 4v5, which is more than anyone else in this game ever has or will do

Is this a troll thread?

Alekt.5803:

Supreme.3164:

Alekt.5803:

jebro.6370:

Heaven forbid there’s a dedicated healer or support?

What was worse, was the cele meta of D/D. Yea sure bunker support ele is a more defined role, but the ele cant kill much, it can only support. Best thing is, this can bring out different situations.

Forcing an ele into a 1v1 where it cant rotate out, thus leaving it out of team fights might be a tactic we see in the next META, difficult with no portal but do able. This was similar to how TCG used to deal with Tage for example back in Bunker Guard meta (just an example).

Bunker Guard META wasn’t horrible to watch or play against a lot of the time its a similar ish role the ele now picks up with clerics and Soldier rune, although Ele has more self preservation regarding burst and power/condi with the Focus Earth abilities and such.

As for Aura sharing, with necro you will likely see more people going for the condi remove than the sharing of auras in all honesty.

I am not fighting against the idea of healer elementalist. I am mainly arguing that Focus is too strong compared to the other weapon set of the elementalist; that Focus combined with Earth Magic is too good compared to the else. I offer a solution, which is to put Elemental Shielding and Geomancer’s training at the same tier, since the weapon set is unfairly good with it.

I don’t want elementalist to be balanced exclusively with the idea that Focus exists; “that they have access to this massive 3 condi clear ability, extreme projectile hate, and an on-command invulnerability”. This short description does not represent the reality of Staff or Warhorn…

Such non-sense!

We’re talking about a pure defensive set and you argue that its defense too strong respect to the rest? well…surprise
The focus does basically zero dmg and you expect people to be punished further for using it? You already cut your dmg by half and you want to make everything even worst…completely absurd

Why do you think that Overload Earth was bug fixed ( Maximum protection duration reduced by 52%, going up to 70% when leaving the aoe; 75% max protection duration reduction to allies) without compensation? Because Focus has access to both Elemental Shielding and Geomancer’s Training. The access to protection was far too generous. Meanwhile, a damage Air Water Tempest barely has any protection uptime now.

Any attempt at buffs on traits affecting Water, Tempest, Air or Earth have to be thought with the existence of Focus in mind, and how this weapon set will once again abuse it.

All the nerfs we saw on the class on last patch were probably caused because of Elemental Shielding + Geomancer’s training combo.

I wouldn’t take anything the balance team does as any indicator of what’s strong. We’ve been shown many and many times they often have no clue what they’re doing.

Rank means nothing.
Division means nothing.

> Doesn’t mean they were skilled.

So what does it prove? Can ele work against bad people? Sure. Can ele be decent when season starts? Perhaps. Can it be competitive? Who knows.

I don’t get these threads. If I rekt some team in unranked on turret engi, does it mean it’s insane? No, it means my opponents were bad. We have to wait and see to figure out what will happen with ele.

Fresh air is viable? That’s a new one. At least if you talk about marauder/zerker fresh air. It can maybe work in unranked, but once you face decent people you’ll be better off with anything else. That might be the issue for the whole class, not just one build, though.

Fresh air was never viable in the first place to the point it was competitive. Then it got nerfed and other stuff buffed.

EDIT: Yeah, FA got buffed, but it still didn’t solve the core issues of the spec.

Crinn.7864:

Laraley.7695:

Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.

That’s kind of a dumb argument. Saying “well if you fight nothing but condi builds…” is asinine because of course if you fight all condi builds you’ll have high condi damage taken.

However you rarely if ever encounter teams that are pure condi builds or pure power builds. Nearly all matches are mixed.

Also anecdotally having <25k condi damage taken is fairly common. In the matches that I’ve checked I’ve never seen condi damage taken exceed power damage taken, and in most cases my condi damage taken is usually no more than a third of power damage taken.

Laraley.7695:

Taken from context, but I might have worded it poorly. What I meant is if you have low dmg dealt you’re either bunker or you didn’t fight. If you have low dmg taken it’s the latter. On a support build obv.

My mistake. I just saw the “damage received” implies bunker and went “huh wut?!”

Did you even read what I said?

As long as we have no clue what he was up against, his ratio is completely useless. )¨

Edit: Condition damage will ALWAYS be lower than direct, doesn’t change the fact ONE class is broken in a way related to condition damage. I feel like I have to repeat myself in every single post.

Crinn.7864:

Laraley.7695:

. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build,

Random side correction. Low damage taken actually means they aren’t a bunker or support.

Bunker/supports tend to have high damage taken because they last much longer, and typically have much more healing. (the more healing a target has the more damage required to kill it)

Glass cannons tend to have less damage taken than anyone since the amount of damage they can take before dying is very low.

In fact in most cases a glass cannon that dies 12 times in a match will have much less damage taken than a bunker that sits in a teamfight the entire match and never dies.

Taken from context, but I might have worded it poorly. What I meant is if you have low dmg dealt you’re either bunker or you didn’t fight. If you have low dmg taken it’s the latter. On a support build obv.

iroh.2871:

So they balanced PvP?

They didn’t.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.

If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?

Will the stats mean something without context? No.

I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.

The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.

Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.

Context please, it’s important.

Altho I agree with several things you said, the idea of the statistics is to give conclusive data witout having to explore the whole scenarios using a sample population. despite that you seems to agree now that the damage dealt by condis is much less than the one done by power… was all I was showing… You also said that saying that you took 200000K damage from condis means a lot, but then again.. ratio… if you took that damage, for condis, but took 3 times as much from power … then it means nothing. … that’s the ratio thing I am talking about…
Damage taken by condis can be affected by several things, play style and role being one and build being a most important fact… a good excercise would be trying to play a match with no condi cleanses and see this ratio. … that is tho, unpractical.

As of playstyle of my particular build, it’s a roamer, hard cc chain while dealing high spike damage on a single target (hence the low damage statistic), some support is provided but not the main focuss.

Sigh, once again.

Overall low condition taken doesn’t mean anything if only one or a few classes have over the top condition spam. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.

Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.

kuritsutian.2987:

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.

If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?

Will the stats mean something without context? No.

I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.

The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.

Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.

Context please, it’s important.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.

lol ignorance is a bliss

ratio
?re?/Submit
noun
the quantitative relation between two amounts showing the number of times one value contains or is contained within the other.

In simpler words for you, means that no matter the scale (low, mid, big) the ratio will be about the same … in the case of the picture, explained to you… only 7% of the damage came from conditions… wich means, condition damage is not a problem …

Again, so what? What were your opponents? What builds they were running? Why did you so little dmg/healing/anything and then posted the screenshot to prove something when it means kitten nothing?

Like just wow. If I post a screenshot when I take almost no direct dmg, will it prove something? Of course not. But keep trying.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

In my opinion the best meta was before hot. I feel like the older the game the less skill it requires to play pretty much anything and do decently. They’ve been adding more passives, powercreep and all this crap that basically ruins the game.

The removal of some amulets was good, not all though. They’re just taking the lazy approach and instead of fixing classes, they just remove something the spec depends on. Removing cele good, but not reworking ele was a bad idea.

Essentially, the game will keep going in circles. Something too strong/weak > overnerf/overbufkittenomething else too strong/weak. It’s not really good for the game or the classes, but ever since release they haven’t been able to actually help the classes that really needed it and nerf what was needed to be nerfed without completely destroying the spec. One of the reasons for this is the fact we need to wait three monts for a balance patch that screwed some classes up.

What was it for? To see if ele can work without cele and maybe rework it in a year or readd celestial to continue with the lazy fixing? Actually not helping warriors to be relevant at all? Overbuffing thief’s AA because that’s the issue? Overbuffing reapers just for the sake of it?

Right now, it might seem everything is viable to some degree. However, it’s only unranked and its matchmaking tends to be pretty bad. Once season/proleague starts some classes will be left out completely and it’ll be only about the few chosen classes.

I wish they listened to everyone who was telling them to nerf everything to warrior level and not add more power creep.

Oh yeah, revenant is still broken.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Laraley.7695:

Valkyriez.6578:

According to the forums of BnS, PvP there is as imbalances as here and is a dead game.

Source: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forum/617-arena/

News just in, people like to whinge about balance in forums.

The amount of complaining is definitely not as high as here.

What people don’t realize is the fact EU and NA have unfinished versions of their classes, the game is not as balanced at lvl 45. Missing a few levels and skills is pretty important. Despite this, the game is more balanced than gw2 currently is.

There are probably new gamemodes to come, too.

But there is a difference between the games. People here complain about both gw2 and BnS.

lol, I remember playing Dragons Nest, the game was fairly balanced at level 24, Priests were arguably the best with Mystics arguably the worst. Then they released content to level 40 and the game just died, PvP was insanely broken and levels played a massive difference.

That being said, Guild Wars 2 has a lot of problems. Too bad ArenaNet is in charge of combat design.

Thank god we actually know what will happen with the lvl 50 patch since it’s already been released in other regions.

Pointless example.

Valkyriez.6578:

According to the forums of BnS, PvP there is as imbalances as here and is a dead game.

Source: https://forums.bladeandsoul.com/forum/617-arena/

News just in, people like to whinge about balance in forums.

The amount of complaining is definitely not as high as here.

What people don’t realize is the fact EU and NA have unfinished versions of their classes, the game is not as balanced at lvl 45. Missing a few levels and skills is pretty important. Despite this, the game is more balanced than gw2 currently is.

There are probably new gamemodes to come, too.

But there is a difference between the games. People here complain about both gw2 and BnS.

Cinnamon Goddess.3869:

Mechalibur.9618:

Ele has weaker autos because it has a very large range of cooldown abilities. You have 4 attunements, allowing you to cast 16 other weapon abilities in between your auto attacks, many of which wreck havoc among a zerg.

If you’re talking about poor 1v1 potential, then too bad. Staff isn’t amazing at everything. It’s great at PvE DPS, zerging, support, and PvP teamfights, but it’s not great at dueling. Them’s the breaks.

The average person does not want to constantly switch between attunements because it is annoying. Also is you are specing for a certain damage and you switch damage type then your DPS goes way down. There should at least be an option to remove switching for more of a specific damage type.

The staff is NOT great at PvE its damage is extremely disappointing especially considering how squishy the class is. If I die really easily then I should either heal extremely well or I should do MASSIVE damage, neither one of those is true. This is just a broken class and has been for years. The Revenant just illustrates this very well.

P.S. This class needs to be brought up, it is unacceptable to bring the Revenant class down.

You should probably change your build then. Ele has been one of the top dps classes for ages and for a long time it was with staff. If you find attunement swapping annoying, you should probably pick a different class.

Fresh air ele damage sucks for several reasons.

You have basically only one option for a weapon and that’s a scepter. It’s AA are horrible, you don’t have enough sustained dmg.

You can go dagger and die.

You can go staff and die even before you load in the game.

You can pick tempest and hope you’ll get air overload off. However, due to the amount of cc the game currently has and the cost of overload you’ll probably be dead before you do any significant damage with it.

You have your burst that consists of several skills and even if you land it perfectly, you probably won’t one shot anyone. And then you’re out of cooldowns and can do basically nothing.

Ele just simply cannot be a damage spec in pvp and competitive at the same time. So the only option is support. It that really possible with the removal of celestial? Perhaps, but other classes will probably do better.

They simply should have buffed other sides of ele with the removal of celestial. I’m sure there’s tons of people who would love fresh air back. It was such a fun spec, but the risk/reward wasn’t and still isn’t okay. Work twice as hard and get twice as less.

Why did they buff thief AA but not scepter? Well, I’ve been trying to figure that out ever since the patch.