Guild Wars 2

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

It is not impossible to score points, its a rotation issue. You should never have 0 points. The reason you cannot score is because the other team is rotating.
If they leave the mesmer at far/close, it is a 5v4 everywhere else. As soon as the mesmer moves, send someone there. If it comes back, go somewhere else.

I will agree with unwinnable games, but I disagree about the points.
Even in pro leagues, with the best players, no one ever scores 0.

I think you should rewatch the Proleague games.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

Because impossible is possible. And if you have a 10% chance to win, it does not mean you have a 10% chance to score points. Every team in theory should be able to hold 1 node. Which is why I think it starts at -1.
200 points is 1 node for 400 seconds or 6min and 40 sec.
If the enemy holds the other 2 nodes for the same time, they will only reach 400 so, its very possible in a pure loss situation.

Everyone knows that there are completely unwinnable games and also games where it’s impossible to score any points. Especially in this meta when you can have a bunker mes on your close and the node won’t ever get capped. If you have 0% chance to win, then getting even one node is obviously gonna be a very hard thing to do.

reikken.4961:

what about from blasting frost field?

You’ll only get the aura once. You used to be able to get double duration for your teammates but that got nerfed as it was the only aura that stacked in duration.

Dahir.4158:

1. your allies do get the auras from shouts when using Powerful Aura. So if you have Elemental Shielding on as well they will get the protection from the auras.

No, you get the auras from shouts regardless of Powerful aura.

I just wanna say I don’t get why people are losing pips in games where they have 0% chance to win, that’s ridiculous.

I really don’t get how people can defend something so gamebreaking as WoP was. Do you really want things like this to be in game?

reikken.4961:

Well I didn’t say anything about the meta build. If you’re trying to do damage, you aren’t using the meta build. It’s a 100% support focused build, and very defensive.

While this is true, that doesn’t mean you can’t kill anyone. Air Overload is helping that.

Azure.8670:

Xillllix.3485:

Neko.9021:

Azure.8670:

As an ele/mes main for 3 years I had to drop both classes. Mes because the direction chrono went is amazing but for some reason I just don’t like it and I can’t explain it. Mes engi and necro have by far the best communities as well. On the flip side I love tempest but the ele community is harsh and for the most part bad. If you don’t like tempest that’s fine but calling it trash when it dominates in pvp and pve is just stupid

Ele community is bizarre. Even being the best at everything isn’t good enough for the community.

The ele is only best as waterbot bunker healer at the moment, perhaps you can consider class canon meteors being “best at something”, but that is just because the PvE AI is really lacking and enemies stay in the red circle. I will give you this, the ele is good with fields and some cc.

For condi and spike damage, at both close range and long range other classes are better.

And here lies the problem

You acknowledge that Ele is in the meta, especially in a harsh and awful pvp meta it has somehow STILL found a way to get in there, and yet you STILL bash it. Other classes cant even come close and you still find a way to put Ele down in every single post single the Tempest reveal, and actually before that. I know you love Ele but you hurt this community far more than you help it

He is right, though. The elite specs were supposed to be a different way to play your class, but we got a heal/buff bot instead. It’s basically the same as before, we only have less damage now. I’m bored to death each time I play tempest in pvp. It’s the same old, same old in every game mode and you can’t blame people for wanting to have options.

reikken.4961:

Laraley.7695:

You should probably say you have access to the overload. Actually finishing the cast in pvp is way more tricky.

yes, though not so tricky that it doesn’t happen. You do have to be hit with an interrupt twice, and you have access to several instant cast blinds

Not if you’re playing the meta build. You’ll take Invigorating Torrrents, not stab on overload.

Oh ye, pls let’s have even less caps and games end up 0-0 now.

Nearly two months for something that should have been hotfixed? Uhm, okay. Esports, boiz.

Another completely passive trait you have no control over? Noty.

reikken.4961:

Asherah.7651:

Tempest definitely needs a little more offensive presence!

with all those exclamation marks, I’m not sure if you’re serious or not, but
Tempest as a class has loads of offensive presence
The issue is it can only do one thing at a time. You can repeatedly overload air and do bucketloads of damage, probably more than any other class, but if you want to overload water, you basically have to commit to doing no damage for 9 seconds.

You should probably say you have access to the overload. Actually finishing the cast in pvp is way more tricky.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

I’m not entirely sure Diamond Skin changing would rip Tempests out of the meta so much as mean they actually need to slot some condi cleanse. They could do this simply by using Trooper runes without changing the rest of the meta build. Other than Dagger/Warhorn, every Ele weapon set has a condition cleanse (which is more than any other profession can say, although Necro’s are more potent).

Given Shout Warriors were once sufficient to push condition builds entirely out of the meta, Trooper Rune Tempests played well probably don’t actually need Diamond Skin to survive conditions, since they do what Shout Warriors did, but better.

Even so, I’d like to see Diamond Skin remain an anti-condition trait regardless of whatever (if anything) happens to it. Just needs to be less binary.

Eles already use Soldier runes and still melt to condis when DS is broken. Too much AoE condition pressure for the lowest hp pool class.

Milan.9035:

Laraley.7695:

I agree that DS is designed badly and allows no counterplay unless you play viper. However, I believe that before DS gets reworked, there need to be changes to the amount of condition pressure some classes can do. Mallyx revenant is going to get nerfed tomorrow and we should see how that’s gonna turn out first. DS is the only thing that keeps ele in the meta somehow, once you break it, the ele just melts.

I would like to point out ele does not counter Mallyx rev as it’s literally no issue for them to break it on viper. The only thing that DS is good against considering 1v1’s is carrion/rabid reaper.

And to the post above me: Ele has been getting nerfs unlike other classes that were getting buffs mostly. With the trait revamp they completely killed two barely viable specs, which was fresh air zerker ele and condition ele. Cele ele had its damage reduced significantly and is definitely not the strongest spec in current meta, it’s basically a heal/buff bot, nothing else. It has issues taking any 1v1 and can at best just stalemate it and won’t kill you unless given A LOT of time to do it.

you must be talking about rev again only cause viper on anyone else is much worse than rabid or carrion. there is currently only 1.5 condi classes in meta. rev and half a necro.

if you agree that diamond skin should stay as is to keep those OP condi builds from playing then i suggest we nerf rev and give them power diamond skin. that way all those power builds are forced to take some condi… fair is fair right?

Yes, I was obviously talking about revenants. You can also see I said ‘’Mallyx rev’‘, not sure why you’re asking.

Did you reply to just complain or did you actually read what I said? I mean seriously, right the first sentence says I don’t agree with DS being the way it is. DS also won’t keep revenants out of meta, they actually don’t have such a hard time killing a tempest. It’s not the best duel for revenant, but they have the edge. However, the game is not about 1v1’s.

The only thing I said was that we should wait and see how the changes will alter the meta and then change things. What kills tempest right now are conditions and it could end up being overbuffed. However, if there’s not that much condition pressure anymore, different changes might be needed. Please, read before you reply.

Definitely nerfs.

It’s a kind of strange state of meta right now. While it’s incredibly slow and boring, everyone is tanky, there’s also way too much damage, cc and half of this is passive.

Do you think it’s a coincidence that revenants are dominating the meta? They’re the only class that can put on viper/zerker amulet and have ridiculous amounts of sustain. Do you think it’s a coincidence that neither of the lowest hp pool classes have a meta dps build? Not really. Maybe it has something to do with the ridiculous condition pressure?

The amount of CC is quite crazy, too. It used to take a skilled player to interrupt things like Burning speed, Blurred frenzy etc. Now? It will get randomly interrupted during a teamfight, because everyone got some low cooldown cc that can just be spammed off cd.

And now all the sustain these elite spec brought to the game. It’s really insane they didn’t think it would break the game. If you got the right comp, you can just keep everything uncapped if you like. Your viper rev downed? Fear no more, there is a mesmer with quickness and Well of Precog to ress them up and there’s nothing you can do about it. Don’t worry, they won’t even lose the point if they managed to cap it.

I believe that moving stats from trait lines and buffing amulets wasn’t the right decision. First, it resulted in everyone one shotting everyone. Now we have 15 minute games that don’t even go up to 500. People are forced to build defensively, can’t blame them for it, but I think the devs failed to see the bigger picture when bringing in these new elite specs.

It seems like with every meta the game just gets dumbed down and I honestly don’t get how anyone can like this. Two months in and we only get a tiny balance patch and for bigger changes we need to wait another month of two? A complete joke.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Brew Pinch.5731:

100% pure passive immunity is a bad mechanic.

A less hateful version of the exact same trait was removed from Engineer due to it being terrible design.

Change the trait to something much more clever like reduced condi damage per condition on the Elementalist.

Pure immunity traits have no place in a competitive game.

This trait is the only significant concern with balance at the minute, as it is the only thing which completely hardcounters half of all potential builds.

You’re saying this one trait which isn’t new is the only issue that needs to addressed in PvP….

In case you didn’t know, rangers, warriors, mesmers, guardians just to name half, have immunity skills or abilities but good luck on your witch hunt.

They have to give up a utility skill for an immunity that isn’t up for but a tiny fraction of the fight. A bunker tempest with DS can be completely immune to all conditions while holding a point against 2 opposing players. I have seen skilled reapers with marauder do 2-3 rotations against a tempest and not get them below the 90% threshold but for a couple seconds. I’m sorry if you disagree, but DS is oppressive and toxic when combined with the best healing in the game, permanent 40% damage reduction, and ridiculous stability uptime.

If you can’t break DS in two, then it’s your own problem.

Ridiculous stability uptime? The meta build has very little to no stability. I’m not sure what you’re facing, but the ele has either zero stability or Armour of Earth on ridiculous cooldown or eventually Rock Solid, which is two freaking seconds base of ONE STACK of stab. And guess what? Not many people even take these.

I agree that DS is designed badly and allows no counterplay unless you play viper. However, I believe that before DS gets reworked, there need to be changes to the amount of condition pressure some classes can do. Mallyx revenant is going to get nerfed tomorrow and we should see how that’s gonna turn out first. DS is the only thing that keeps ele in the meta somehow, once you break it, the ele just melts.

I would like to point out ele does not counter Mallyx rev as it’s literally no issue for them to break it on viper. The only thing that DS is good against considering 1v1’s is carrion/rabid reaper.

And to the post above me: Ele has been getting nerfs unlike other classes that were getting buffs mostly. With the trait revamp they completely killed two barely viable specs, which was fresh air zerker ele and condition ele. Cele ele had its damage reduced significantly and is definitely not the strongest spec in current meta, it’s basically a heal/buff bot, nothing else. It has issues taking any 1v1 and can at best just stalemate it and won’t kill you unless given A LOT of time to do it.

yea, let’s make it even more boring.

For me it would be Gorseval I think. Sabetha was a bit disappointing since it took us only like three hours to clear it for the first time, although the fight was fun.

My thought is how come there hasn’t been a hotfix to this. It’s completely broken. You can also cap temple bufffs while evading everything. No counterplay.

I’ve learnt by now that Anet should do the exact opposite of what Henry suggest. This thread only proves it.

Morwath.9817:

If our “pros” would play like majority of playerbase (read: soloQ/duoQ) they wouldn’t have such issue… I think Rom just today hit Ruby, Helseth is still in Sapphire, I doubt our dear farmboys are better than Rom or Helseth, seriously.

No, ofc they aren’t. Worse players getting diamond cause of this farm while players who would only solo or duoq are lower. Anyways, respect for Rom and Helseth not trying to farm their way up, which also obviously improves the streams. Nothing worse to watch than 5 man farming pugs.

Shockwave.1230:

Can someone who is mad about people being diamond please calm down then logically explain to me why you think it’s okay for ANet’s matchmaking to allow for 2 hour queues that time out?

Then also please calmly explain, using logic (not spite), why you think it’s wrong for diamond players to play with others who are amber so they can actually get a match?

I think if you would just take off the rage goggles, you would realize there’s nothing logical in arguing that those queue times are okay or that it’s wrong to play with people so you can get a match in a reasonable time.

This is pretty easy to explain and I don’t think people think it’s ok to have such queues, they just have no sympathy for OP due to the fact this affects them, too.

You know, lots people queue solo or with a friend, probably even majority. And these soloqers get matched against teaams and they often have low chance of beating them, therefore they lose pips. Was there something they could have done? Not so much. If you run into these premades just because your MMR is quite high and get punished for it, it’s really not okay either.

Now, why don’t people like these players take lower rank members? That’s simple, too. They’re lowering their party MMR which means they will get a team with a lesser chance of beating them due to the fact the party MMR is not correct. We’ve also seen people going on other accounts to lower the queue times. Is the player on alt account worse? No. But they will get matched with enemy team as if he was worse. It also messes up pip loss/gain. Since the outccome of match if calculated from incorrect numbers, it can result in very frustrating losses for the enemy team.

Could anet do something to prevent both pugs getting farmed and people not being able to get a game? Yes, it’s called soloq.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Thanks for the responses guys! I’ll probably still gear both reasonably (as I’m nearly done) but I think I’ll just do Druid in the short run just so people don’t complain when we need heals about my choice of class. Once I get some practice healing I’d probably try tempest and compare with a better frame of reference.

I’m sitting on a set of zealots insignias and monk runes that I haven’t committed to anyone yet. Both look interesting, and I think they will both have encounters where they’re needed. I’d probably argue that Ele is a strong choice for sabetha, though I haven’t seen it.

We got a video from our last kill with tempest healer if you’re interested. However, it’s not from his point of view.

Sunfish.5970:

Ok how about this. Id solo q if i could, but since i get queues that time out, im going to pick up a couple ambers and 2 other diamonds and continue to farm the people that want to ignore a problem. Happy queueing

I’m glad you admited you did farmed soloquers, so I can have no sympathy for you.

butch.8136:

Tbf the population hasn’t catched up at all.

Because most of the population doesn’t farm soloquers, they are the soloquers and they also have stopped playing.

We had a tempest healer both on VG and Gorseval, but imo druid would do better. Tempest probably have more overtime healing, but druid has better burst healing. Along with that druid also helps the party dps a lot which is definitely needed on Gorseval and I don’t think Tempest healer is good for that boss at all. It obviously depends on how experienced your party is and when they’re able to dodge everything, you’ll do better with druid.

Ohoni.6057:

Just make the wings tradeable on the tp, so he can farm his pve and buy it for a couple of thousand gold.
Would only take a few weeks of flipping items on the tp and youre done.

I’m on record as saying that bad options are preferable to no options, but good options are better still. Being able to buy them on the TP would be a bad solution, with all sorts of problems of its own, but it would at least be better than ONLY being able to get them via PvP, if only by a slight margin.

It’s still important to go for the best solution though, one that provides multiple genuine paths of progression that involve genuine effort within the game world, not just gold grind or pip grind.

I don’t see the problem. They’re legendary pvp wings, you have to do pvp for it. What’s so illogical about it? There is a fractal backpiece you can only get by doing fractals. If you cannot make efffort to get it, well then you don’t deserve it anyways.

Or don’t introduce skills like Echo of Memory, problem solved.

Ereiz.2174:

So you cannot add same aura to yourself if you already have it active?

Yep. You were able to stack Frost Aura, but they fixed that recently.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Agemnon.4608:

Ever consider coordinating with a team of 3-5 with team speak?

you get much harder fights thrown at you. : )

Nah, you don’t. I queued in 4 for maybe 8 games and was getting the same people, maybe a tiny bit easier since you can just steamroll the soloquers you sometimes get.

Well, seeing as you cannot stack auras, then it makes sense it only heals once since the second one won’t get applied.

Izanagi.9830:

on EU some people do it aswell , argilla , collero etc.

Yup, had the same experience.

Then Collero proceeds to moan how he can’t get a queue.

infantrydiv.1620:

Laraley.7695:

infantrydiv.1620:

From what I’ve heard, league play matchmaking uses both league placement and MMR, meaning that the higher your league placement is, the more likely you are to get matched vs very good players, even if your MMR is lower than theirs. For example,

Sapphire player with 1200 MMR might be considered equivalent to Emerald player with 1500 MMR, meaning that the Emerald player has a very good chance to beat the Sapphire player and thus gain a pip.

Obviously I have no details on how exactly the formula works, but from what I’ve read, this seems to be roughly how the system is functioning.

This system seems like it will work in theory to me, because it means that good players in lower leagues definitely have a chance to move up in leagues with a higher than 50% ratio in w/l.

In theory mabye, but it doesn’t really. It’s the most frustrating system I’ve ever seen. I’ve been stuck in the last tier of Sapphire for ages now. The whole freaking day I’ve been facing proleague premades and there’s literally nothing I can do as a soloquer. The system predicts you to lose, but you still lose a pip because well…who knows. So you’re stuck in the same place till you get lucky and dodge them. Also, I’ve been matched against diamond people, so I’m not sure how exactly this is working.

Well, assuming leagues are at least partially skill-based, many people will start stalling in Ruby (because it becomes impossible to move up without over 50% win ratio). So unless you are an amazing player, getting much past Ruby, as a solo player will become increasingly difficult.

I’ve also heard that Diamond players are intentionally getting Amber league players to party with them in order to climb leagues faster and decrease queue times.

If leagues start being taken very seriously, I’d fully expect people to do things like form a premade, and then have 2 of their players go on fresh MMR/amber league accounts in order to get farmable games to boost the other 3 players, if the system works the way I envision it.

I’m sure that there are a few different ways to exploit the system at this point, and I think that if leagues are actually weighting both league tier, and MMR we could see some players winding up with a lower than 50% win ratio if they get to Ruby very slowly and then keep getting matched vs far better players due to their league status, rather than their MMR.

Well, you definitely won’t be able to get past Ruby as a solo player if it continues being like this no matter how good you are, because you will always depend on luck. Maybe once everyone is in Ruby and all these pro league players are in legendary, you can move to Diamond, but that’s pretty much it.

Well, I can confirm that I’ve been matched against a Diamond player with an amber in his party, but also without, so I’m not sure how exactly it works. Also, the close you are to next division, the more often you’ll face people from it, but that could be only my experience.

Yeah, your winloss ratio will probably go down as a soloplayer in Ruby, but it all depends on your MMR imo. People have been saying the lower your MMR is the easier it is for you to progress since you won’t end up facing premades all the time, but I’m not sure how true this is.

Bruno.3812:

I’ve read your posts, OP but haven’t seen you suggest a mechanism to win at PvP without doing PvP. So, here you go Ohoni.

Karma into PvP pips!

Yes, win at PvE by completing events and turn that karma into PvP pips. (Pips available at a merchant selling pips in a PvP lobby near you). Just play PvE to earn enough karma to get those wings without ever setting foot in PvP.

It’s a win win solution. ^^

Hell no. If they’re gonna do that, they will kitten off many people who spent many frustrating hours trying to get where they are right now, including me. PvE has nothing to do with PvP and it should stay that way.

infantrydiv.1620:

From what I’ve heard, league play matchmaking uses both league placement and MMR, meaning that the higher your league placement is, the more likely you are to get matched vs very good players, even if your MMR is lower than theirs. For example,

Sapphire player with 1200 MMR might be considered equivalent to Emerald player with 1500 MMR, meaning that the Emerald player has a very good chance to beat the Sapphire player and thus gain a pip.

Obviously I have no details on how exactly the formula works, but from what I’ve read, this seems to be roughly how the system is functioning.

This system seems like it will work in theory to me, because it means that good players in lower leagues definitely have a chance to move up in leagues with a higher than 50% ratio in w/l.

In theory mabye, but it doesn’t really. It’s the most frustrating system I’ve ever seen. I’ve been stuck in the last tier of Sapphire for ages now. The whole freaking day I’ve been facing proleague premades and there’s literally nothing I can do as a soloquer. The system predicts you to lose, but you still lose a pip because well…who knows. So you’re stuck in the same place till you get lucky and dodge them. Also, I’ve been matched against diamond people, so I’m not sure how exactly this is working.

I don’t think staff is particulary bad, but D/F just provides more stuff. I accidentally left my staff on and couldn’t switch back so had to play staff and it wasn’t horrible. I think it’s pretty good for aoe cleanse, but Obsidian flesh, projectile destroy and magnetic wave alone with the cc just outclass staff.

Obv you can progress even if you have lower winrate than 50%, but only to ruby I would imagine. Once you start losing tiers, it’s gonna get freaking hard. You can be losing a lot and still gaining tiers, it all depends if you get win streaks or not.

Burtnik.5218:

Hmm..yesterday i was at emerald t5, today i am at sapphire t4.. From what i noticed sapphire matches are much easier cause they are full of noobs. Grab 2 friends and rekt them all.

Just because you have this experience, doesn’t mean everyone does. My matches got significantly harder when i got into Sapphire. And the amount of premades is higher, too.

nearlight.3064:

Sekai.2987:

you are playing ele without focus, that explains alot, like almost everything, you need the focus , warhorn is useless as kitten

Disagreed. I play with sticker a lot and he plays ele quite solidly with warhorn, that’s not he problem.

The problem is that the league system punishes players that had fairly high MMR before leagues when they soloqueue by pairing them with new or inexperienced players that lack rotational and mechanical skill, causing horribly imbalanced matches. I’ve been lured with some of the worst people I’ve ever seen over the past few days going up against well known streamers and competitive players and it’s just sad. I lost 14 games in a row last night, when is that ever supposed to happen?

That’s not the point, warhorn is worse than both dagger of focus, period. Maybe not using the best build is not the reason why he is losing a lot, but it’s definitely not helping.

There has been a premade on EU running 2x viper rev and 2x bunker mesmer. This has been one of the most painful experiences I’ve ever had in pvp. And of course I’ve been constantly getting matched against them, it’s ridiculous really.

You know it would be enough if soloquers weren’t punished so much for losing. Even if you end up 250-500 against a premade, you will lose a pip despite the fact you weren’t supposed to win at all. They need to change how pugs lose pips against premades and then it will actually be playable.

Yeah, I think the fact you can get unfavoured matches is a huge problem since leagues were implemented. There is nothing you can do and you just end up losing your pips due to the fact matchmaking thinks it’s okay to put you into games you’re supposed to lose by default. It wasn’t so bad before because there were no pips, but now…oh well.

Chaba.5410:

This is not working right for sure so IDK what is causing Byes, not a simple DC. Had a player DC on my team right at the beginning of the match (correction: he was auto-running into the wall at spawn for the first minute or two of the match before DCing). He was able to reconnect but the match was already lost by then. The match got listed as a Defeat for us and a Win for the other team even though it should have by rights been a Bye and Forfeit. Also lost a pip due to this. So broken.

Match: 12/6/2015 Ranked Forest of Niflhel 8m, 24s 252:500 Defeat

I’m sure the duration of the DC plays an important part. We had a guy leaving the match and got Forfeit. Another guy dced in the middle, but was quickly back and we got a defeat.

Forfeit = you don’t lose pips
Defeat = you do

It means there was a dc or someone left on the enemy team.

No, thanks. Don’t want team of 4 thieves just so they can farm points.

Farms pugs and gets into diamond, then queues with others and wonders why the queue takes a long time.

No sympathy.

The other team was probably in favour to win by a mile and the games ended up closer than it should have been based on MMR. Lets say you were supposed to lose and the final score was 450-500, so it gave you a pip.

If only boring, but with the amount of dazes and cc in the game, in pvp you’re gonna have a hard time to finish any overload except earth and that’s risky, too. I don’t know what was going through their heads when they came up with this.