This wouldn’t be a bad idea but they would have to rework the way personal score works. It really means nothing atm. Obviously if you have 200+ points and rest of your team 20, then there is something wrong, but in the long run it would just promote point farmers and not good gameplay.
I know this isn’t the popular opinion, but in general, I feel like the game would have been better off if they never had condition damage at all, and instead, condition duration gear and just have conditions be purely utility. It’s not possible to change now, but I think the game would have done better without condition damage and the weird need to juggle condition clears as a form of defense, and if they were strictly utility there wouldn’t be such a need for the removal and cleanses would be similar to boon rips.
I think that’s the best way to put it, conditions should have been like negative Boons, and not a damage source, and some damage ones (like confusion) could just slightly scale with power. Regardless, just seems like it causes more issues than it solves. But alas, I shall end my tangent.
OT: Burning change would probably do some good, yes.
You complain about turrets being useless and an unusable set of skills after the nerf but you would be willing to kill many builds by removing conditions? That makes lots sense, really.
I mostly play fresh air.
But honestly all these things you’re saying apply to so many classes. It’s not a mesmer issue, it’s a game issue.
Okay I would like to clarify something here. First of all yes all classes have very limited builds. That being said, take this into consideration.
Mesmer is the ONLY that’s right the ONLY class in this game that has had one build to be used competitively since launch. While every class may only have one or two viable builds in each meta. They are always changing in one way or another. I think warrior is possible the best example of this.
They have really only had one meta build at a time but it went from one to another. Hambow>Evisc/sidepoint build>Banner Bunker (kinda)>Shoutbow.Necros are kind of the same. Guardians have had several bunker variants since launch and now are medi guards. Engineers possibly have had the greatest build diversity in the game. The fact remains tho
Mesmers, since launch, have had one good competitive build; any player in this game, should not be okay with that.
I understand your point, all I was trying to point out that this issue should be dealt with globally and not just for one class. Even though mesmer has it the worst since lauch, it doesn’t mean other classes should be ignored when it comes to this. I think we should really consider the xpack and then see if things are not any better.
I don’t agree with this, I think pvp and pve should have exclusive rewards.
For the dailies, I agree with you that there should be more options, but they should be reworked completely. Pvp players have been complaining about class specific dailies since the second they introduced it.
And honestly they didn’t add new llama minis for pvp players, they’ll be obtainable through tournaments which have around 8 participating each round. So, it’s not really obtainable by most pvp players.
I mostly play fresh air.
But honestly all these things you’re saying apply to so many classes. It’s not a mesmer issue, it’s a game issue. There is little diversity for each class, for example ele: you pretty much need to play dd in the top tier, even though staff is sort of viable, dd is still better. Same goes for fresh air, those are not really the builds you see in top tier.
I think the condi build issue with mesmer is that it’s just simply horrible in conquest. I’m not really sure if I want to see pu condi mesmers viable, though. It’s very close to being as braindead as turret engi and I don’t think that’s something many people want. The whole condi mesmer concept would have to be reworked, but I don’t really know how to make it viable and at least partially difficult to play as for example condi necro.
Again, having no bunker build option is not only mesmer issue, look at thief for example. Same with utility slots, almost all specs have very little choice in what utility they should take. Thief is a good example of that.
Well low mobility is not completely true. With staff mesmer can be pretty fast, but I don’t think I would be against mesmers getting some minor speed buff.
I think if you’re a good player, I think you manage to land your shatters. I agree that sometimes the AI is really stupid and it should be looked into. For example not being to hit diversion even though the clones are in the range of a target, just not reacting to it.
Again, most zerker specs besides med guard are countered by thieves. I do not believe thieves need a nerf, though. It’s just how the game it is at the moment, same as when engis were hard countered by necros.
And for the condi cleanse, don’t forget that mesmer does have condi cleanse but hey chooses not to use it just because other utilities are better. That could be solved by SLIGHTLY buffing other skills to make them worth taking. Another option would be to add a condi cleanse to some wepon skills, but I really don’t think it’s a problem for a mesmer as it can take down a condi necro pretty easily. The idea is mesmer will stay in range, so he’s not going to get hit by any skills applying conditions unlike thief who has to be in melee and has a decent condi removal.
In summay, I think many of the problems you adressed apply to many classes and not just mesmer. I don’t think mesmer is in a bad postion, just pushed out of meta by thieves. That is not because the class is weak but because other class is dominating. I believe they should fix mesmer bugs first and possibly add some minor buffs but not to make it over the top. Honestly, HoT is coming and I think we should wait how things are after that because it might change lots things and shift the meta completely.
So did some q’s today. Some were solo some were partial premade. All in all I probably won a little over half (or about half) of the games. Started the day with 58 points, finished with 56.
Honestly not sure what I’m suppose to do. Can I have a dev comment on this?
Pretty sure you can never get more than 1 score point for a win but you can lose up to 3 score from a single loss. This might help you understand.
What I’m trying to say is that its LTIERALLY impossible for me to get top top 500 rankings atm because even if I played non stop I apparently cant gain rank points anymore.
Why do you think you deserve to be at top500? It doesn’t depend on how much you play, but mostly depends on winrate
WAT. That’s EXACTLY on what it depends, on how much you play, not some freaking winrate. Guess why people don’t bother, because the leaderboards are broken, it doesn’t reward skilled play but the AMOUNT of play.
I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.
That was what i was saying above, you know. You don’t even want them redesigned, just made useless, and just because you hate “turrets”. Even going as far as saying that’s good for the game. Hah.
No, I said I don’t care and I really don’t. Yes, it is good for the game if there are not builds like turret engi viable. You know why? Because as a player I appreciate good gameplay and fighting people who are skilled. Turret engis promote bad play, it takes literally no skill to play one, therefore creating an enviroment when being good at the game means nothing. Since this is pvp and ANet wants to go esports, builds like this should never exist. In ranked, unranked, tournament, anywhere.
If you hate diversity, how about: Remove all classes from the game, remove all traits from the game, remove all amulets from the game.
Have everyone play as a d/d ele with celestial and 0/2/0/6/6 build and cantrips. Then everyone will be happy, right?Reducing build diversity is never healthy to a game and it’s never a “good” thing. Reducing tactical depth and the requirement to think, before you act, is even worse for a game. By systematically removing everything which strays from the “norm”, whatever this “norm” may actually be, is what kills games.
It’s not diversity, every engi plays turrets because it’s that much effective. Why should we remove all classes and amulets? Just removing turret engi is enough. The game needs diversity, yes but not in AI builds.
By playing turret engi you reduce tactical depth and the requirement to think.
You are already speaking hyperbole, yet still mix in factually false statements.
1) People don’t play turret engi, because they want to play engineer. People play turret engi, because they want to bunker and turrets are the most effective way of BUNKERING right now. People still play celestial rifle, condi, … Yesterday, I even encountered a decap engi.
2) Turret engi adds a lot of tactical decisions and depth to the game. It increases the significance of good rotations, because it punishes bad rotations. It also increases the significance of good defensive rotations, because the build is easily overwhelmed by the right composition in a 2v1.
3) Yes. The game needs more diversity. This would actually solve the turret engi problem by itself. Turret engi is only so effective right now, because half the field is shoutbows, celestial eles and meditation guards, which all have one thing in common: They are useless against turret engis and all 3 of those classes in theory have builds, which are more efficient at either bursting down turret engis or pressuring them on point for a dps to nail them. For the ele, just bringing a frost bow is enough to nail the turret engi in a 2v1 situation.
4) About the skill: Yes and no. If 2 guys, who just started playing, had a fight and one of them rolled a celestial ele, with the other rolling turret engi, he’d certainly win. Now, if they met again with more experience, it’d be a long, drawn out fight, only to be broken up by other player’s rotations. With both of them being very good players, the turret engi would always lose after a drawn out skirmish(because again cele isn’t good against turret engi).
1. People don’t play turrets because they want to bunker. They play it because it takes the least effort and has high reward, stop being naive. There are tons of bunker builds, but the turreter is the most braindead.
2. This is the most hilarious thing I’ve read on the forums ever. Turret engi adds lots of tactical decisions and depth to the game? How exactly? It’s the build that requires the LEAST thinking in the entire game.
3. Not true at all again. People play it because it’s effective while it requires almost no effort. Zerker specs are good against cele, too but you don’t see people complaining about everyone running zerker. You know why? Because zerker specs actually require at least a bit of thinking and have higher risk/reward ratio than turret engi.
4. Completely different. Turret engi doesn’t require much skill but that doesn’t mean skilled people can’t play it. However, they don’t because they actually value skill and want to get better, at least the majority of them.
@OP:
No. Anyone should be allowed to play. The better solution is…. wait for it… a matchmaking system that actually works.
No one is saying new players shouldn’t be allowed to play. They just wouldn’t be allowed to play ranked, which is pretty reasonable. Many games has some requirements for ranked play, why gw2 shouldn’t? Is it really that bad to ask new players to learn the game first before trying to compete alongside players that have thousands and thousands games played? I don’t think so. As you think it might not be fair to restrict them from playing, I also don’t think it’s fair many games are frustrating just because you have new people on your team/enemy team, when you want to enjoy some nice gameplay.
Functional matchmaking still could have issues when players with 0 games join ranked queue and frankly I don’t think there is enough people in the pvp playerbase to have flawless matchmaking.
No, I said I don’t care and I really don’t. Yes, it is good for the game if there are not builds like turret engi viable. You know why? Because as a player I appreciate good gameplay and fighting people who are skilled. Turret engis promote bad play, it takes literally no skill to play one, therefore creating an enviroment when being good at the game means nothing. Since this is pvp and ANet wants to go esports, builds like this should never exist. In ranked, unranked, tournament, anywhere.
Do you even understand what “redesigned” means?
Cause you’re talking like any “turret” skill must and will inevitably end up like that.
I do. Do you understand what ‘’I don’t care because I don’t think AI builds should be viable at all.’’means?
I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.
That was what i was saying above, you know. You don’t even want them redesigned, just made useless, and just because you hate “turrets”. Even going as far as saying that’s good for the game. Hah.
No, I said I don’t care and I really don’t. Yes, it is good for the game if there are not builds like turret engi viable. You know why? Because as a player I appreciate good gameplay and fighting people who are skilled. Turret engis promote bad play, it takes literally no skill to play one, therefore creating an enviroment when being good at the game means nothing. Since this is pvp and ANet wants to go esports, builds like this should never exist. In ranked, unranked, tournament, anywhere.
If you hate diversity, how about: Remove all classes from the game, remove all traits from the game, remove all amulets from the game.
Have everyone play as a d/d ele with celestial and 0/2/0/6/6 build and cantrips. Then everyone will be happy, right?Reducing build diversity is never healthy to a game and it’s never a “good” thing. Reducing tactical depth and the requirement to think, before you act, is even worse for a game. By systematically removing everything which strays from the “norm”, whatever this “norm” may actually be, is what kills games.
It’s not diversity, every engi plays turrets because it’s that much effective. Why should we remove all classes and amulets? Just removing turret engi is enough. The game needs diversity, yes but not in AI builds.
By playing turret engi you reduce tactical depth and the requirement to think.
Maybe the problem is that you do pvp just for rewards. If it’s such a grind for you, then no matter what you would be doing it if it was possible. Once they make the leaderboards truly skill based, you will stop playing the game because you can’t grind out your top 10?
OR! You can time your damage skills for when ele comes OUT of water, then your damage can not be outhealed near immediately.
Hmmm l2p as per usual.
You should really fight a good! elementalist with celestial… you will see, he will just run away and then coming back with his full hp.
Luckily for you 90% of all dd eles are bad. You’re safe.
But it’s funny that you say this, seeing as thief can do the completely same thing.
You think that if something is able be to critically hit, it has to have the ability to do so, too? Same with conditions and cleanse. You don’t have to balance things like this, you can just increase their base damage. However, turrets base damage is still VERY strong. They can be positioned outside AOE and midair, therefore they are less vunerable than other AI which needs to be in range to do some kind of damage, turrets do not.
After all, AI builds should be completely removed from the game, it does not promote a better gameplay or heatlhy enviroment. AKF builds are just bad.
And like other people, you just bundle all the “AI builds” together without considering that classes are different from each others.
Other “AI builds” aren’t in a class that lacks a second main weapon without any compensation, to start with.
And neither block proper access to their class mechanic – as you can’t even use the proper turret toolbelt until it gets destroyed.
So a turret engineer has nothing more than a main weapon, the turret he has placed down, and overcharges every now and then.
Make them glass, and that engineer will have no utilities most of the time, and just some toolbelts to rely upon. And no, those toolbelts don’t make up for a class mechanic, second weapon and utilities all together.
Thus it will just be terrible, and people won’t use them.Or they could have redesigned the whole concept of turrets. Made autoattacks less prominent and overcharges more a matter of micromanagement. Or changed how turrets work at a whole.
And it would have been a far, better work.But people don’t care about them being usable, in any form. They just want them gone. And this is what they’re giving them.
I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.
You think that if something is able be to critically hit, it has to have the ability to do so, too? Same with conditions and cleanse. You don’t have to balance things like this, you can just increase their base damage. However, turrets base damage is still VERY strong. They can be positioned outside AOE and midair, therefore they are less vunerable than other AI which needs to be in range to do some kind of damage, turrets do not.
After all, AI builds should be completely removed from the game, it does not promote a better gameplay or heatlhy enviroment. AKF builds are just bad.
I’ve never had problems against a cele dd.
That being said, I never encountered a good cele dd, while sitting on my point, minding my business. They usually only show up, when I take my main(thief) for a spin. However, i still feel like the cele dd just won’t kill the turret engi fast enough. The important aspect here are defensive rotations.
That’s because dd eles are not really great for beating a turret engi. Their damage heavily relies on burning, which turrets till now weren’t able to recieve. Plus, they have to be in melee range and take all the damage.
On the other hand, fresh air can beat a turret engi but it requires perfect play.
(edited by Laraley.7695)
I just don’t get why AI builds need to be viable.
They really don’t.
Are you of the opinion that all builds should be zerker?
Because condi is cheese.
Because bunkers are not killable.
Etc.
Where did I mention zerker or condi builds?
Are you one of the people who are so bad that they can’t play anything else but AI builds?
I can be passive agressive, too.
Some people enjoy courtyard, some don’t. I had fun with courtyard for like first 2 minutes. TDM could be interesting, but this map is just not good enough for people to take it seriously, the state TDM is at atm is just not making is very likeable map. Not even mentioning that one person can ruin the game for the whole team because they can’t play their own build and keep dying.
I just don’t get why AI builds need to be viable.
They really don’t.
So, an alternative to adding some kind of cast animation would be to have the engineer shout “slick shoes!” on every use of slick shoes. That way, it provides an audio queue similar to how shout skills work.
I like where you’re going with this.
Can thieves shout “BACKSTAB!” right before backstabbing? About 1s before should be good.
Hm, sadly it would change only the fact that you use all your endurance correctly before the thief backstabs you rather than using all your endurance randomly in hope to avoid it before the thief backstabs you.
If you disconnect consistently enough for this to be a problem, it’s not fair for your teammates.
And it’s fair that you DC due to server issues and get a loss for that?
No other skills like it? Guardian’s Ring of Warding and Staff Ele’s Static Field say ‘hi’. They even have shorter CDs than Slick Shoes, too. You could make an argument for Chaos Storm as well. All of which are far easier to land than a Slick Shoes. Outplayed much?
-Ring of warding = guardian will slightly bend on his knee, slowly pulling back the hammer on the left side of the body, he’ll then violently swing the hammer to create a circle on the floor…this is the animation
-Static field = ele is in air attunement, clearly visible on his bar then he’ll straight his right arm pointing your direction while holding the staff, here you have both visual cue of what the ele can do and casting animation
Slick shoes by comparison has zero casting animation, you don’t see it coming, an instant multiple CC with no tells
Honestly saying that you won’t see Slick shoes comming and that Ring of Warding is different is not correct either. Most of the time the guard will chain it with port, which can go through LOS and you won’t see anything either.
No other skills like it? Guardian’s Ring of Warding and Staff Ele’s Static Field say ‘hi’. They even have shorter CDs than Slick Shoes, too. You could make an argument for Chaos Storm as well. All of which are far easier to land than a Slick Shoes. Outplayed much?
Obviously, that year long animation of Static field and the 2 second daze is completely comparable to Slick Shoes. It even has 5 sec shorter cooldown, that skill is just horrible.
And the 1 sec rng daze on chaos storm is more op than 5 turret engis.
There still should be a grace period when you can swap characters, not sure how long it is but swapping once should be okay. I don’t think dishonor is activated, yet.
IMO, thief, mesmer and ele have it the worst.
- Playing a thief without points in trickery is really hard if not impossible. Traited steal is just too good to pass up.
- Playing a mesmer without DE …. No. Playing a mesmer without DE and IP? Babye mesmer. Deceptive evasion should be default already. Compensate with nerfs in other areas?
- Ele… Dependency on arcana.EDIT: Not saying those are the only ones.. but they are the most important ones imo.
I agree with you. When I started playing the game, I actually thought Bountiful Theft was default on thief, it didn’t make a senese to me why it wouldn’t.
I definitely agree Deceptive Evasion should be default but same goes for Elemental Attunement on ele and possibly Evasive Arcana, obviously slightly nerfed versions. It’s really difficult to make anything but dd ele viable in pvp at the moment and that’s pretty sad.
I run a different mesmer build, i run 2-0-6-0-6. I also use moa and portal. I actually some matches ill use no invisibility skills. This build is my version of a bunker mesmer and its very good vs average and below players since they will kill clones and get condi dmg and ill shatter for condi dmg.
And after i win the fight ill drop a portal and move to find at mid or far and portal back if i see someone trying to decap or cap. With a good team and good rotations we destroy teams since we can portal from different spots and move around freely to help other people.
I have maintained a 52%+ win rate with this build as a solo que player and with my guild team we went 11-2 about 1 month ago.
I find your comment to not be truthful and the problem of the gw2 community since you dont know how to make other builds work. Simply cause you either arent good enough/ cant change your style of play/ lack the understanding of a 5 vs 5. Though i do like the idea of the community talking about classes.
once agree i completely disagree with your idea of the mesmer class.
You’re making a bad build work just because as you yourself said you’re facing bad or average players, so insulting others because they actually play builds that are effective against skilled players makes completely no sense. Your reasoning that it works because the players kill clones only confirms you face people who barely bought the game. Calling OP bad because he runs a build that actually requires skill is just a joke.
I have huge expectations for specializations, it’s the only thing that will decide whether or not I’ll buy HoT or even if I’ll keep playing the base game at all.
I’m eagerly waiting for more infos on the ele specialization, I’m praying for something that plays like a med guardian but with that ele flavour. I take med guardian as example because I’m assuming that sword will be the ele specialization weapon, otherwise I’d root for something that plays like a mesmer, sustain through deception and huge ranged dmg
I would much prefer if it was a mesmer style like, really can’t stand med guards. But I can’t really help myself feeling sword on ele will be really boring. I was hoping for some fun weapon but sword is just meh.
Pretty sure their reasoning for removing soloq and adding unranked was that majority of players wanted to have a place where they can play casualy with their friends and not being stressed about leaderboards. If it’s really true, that’s another thing.
5v2’s? Many? Well, maybe don’t play hotjoin but unranked.
I’m sorry but every single game with pvp has a meta. In gw2 we can be glad it’s sort of balanced unlike many games out there, for example WoW.
You’re completely wrong about not improving your individual skill. Yes, pvp requires teamwork but that doesn’t mean that there is no room for self improvement. Maybe try to find some other game that has 1v1 arenas.
It shouldn’t remain possible. Enemy team lost a game just because a thief lost a duel to me twice, they had someone defending but he just lost to me and the timeframe between me getting there and killing the lord was too short so they didn’t have a chance of coming back. So you can just throw a game as one player and your teammates won’t do anything about it, or you can carry 4 other players. I don’t think this promotes teamplay at all.
Seems to me they should’ve had more than one person on defense, then. The Lord room being soloable means that you can’t easily risk a full on five man rush of the enemy keep for a sure win, as the other team can still take out your lord while holding your main attack force off.
If it takes a group to take down the lord then there isn’t much counterplay to a five man rush strategy, as you can’t easily hold off a five man team with only one or two defenders.
As I said, you shouldn’t be able to ignore a player in your lord room and expect to win. Now it shouldn’t be easy to solo the lord, but it should be possible.
The problem is that it promotes bad gameplay. If it reamins possible, then players are forced to camp at their lord and and wait for timer, so one person won’t sneak behind their backs and kill their lord. I would much prefer if it required teamwork. But the thing is 4 of my teammates were defending our lord and enemy team had no chance of killing our lord in that case since they can respawn over and over and heal the lord. So in theory, the fights were balanced, one 1v1 and one 4v4, but losing one 1v1 shouldn’t mean you lose the whole game.
If they actually did listen to the majority of pvp community and adjusted the map, so it’s more efficient to play the map as a pvp map and not a new dungeon, the timer would need to be higher
You don’t have to increase the time limit to make this happen. One easy fix is making it harder for players to kill enemy guards and buffing Archers.
You said it yourself. It would mean there would be less time to kill the lord and more games going to timer if it stayed 15 minutes.
Your argument ‘it has to stay 15 minutes because I have work irl’ just doesn’t go along with this game mode, I’m sorry.
No, I never said it should go to timer. If you read my post, you’d know that I said I RARELY had it go to timer and didn’t understand how others were having this issue. You also admitted to not understanding how it goes to timer when coordinated teams are playing with dps builds. I agree with you. The majority of my games were with a 5 person team on ts, and I won probably 80-90% of my matches.
You can keep saying this is my entire argument all you want (lol), but like I and others have listed, there are PLENTY issues why increasing the time would be not advantageous to the game type. Being that this is gw2, if you want to bring more players into the format, increasing the time limit is simply not one of the first changes you need to make.
Your reply makes no senesce. I didn’t say a word about YOUR experience. You say the solution would be buffing archers and making guards harder to kill. Try to follow here. If you spend more time killing npc’s before you get to lord room and timer stays the same, you will have less time to kill the lord. It’s pretty much just logic, nothing else. I never said anything about dps coordinated teams in repyling to you. I said that organized teams, assuming they have enough DPS, are very likely to kill the lord short into the game because at ITS CURRENT STATE it does not promote meaningful pvp experience but a pve speed clear. So your argument is?
Yes, and others feel like the timer should be longer, we could go and make a poll to try figure out if there is more people like you or me but the fact stays that some people feel it should be longer and some feel it should be 15 minutes. It’s still not any argument. And it’s actually what you said in other thread.
You keep saying it would bring many issues but you haven’t really stated any specifically.
If you played other games like DotA, you would know the games can go up to an hour and there is WAY more people playing it. So maybe it would discourage the people who just want to farm games but bring other ones interested in fun games and pvp experience. I call that a win.
Vod mechanic resolves all that.
Also lords and such health should regenerate out of combat. If you defend a push it should be rewarded as such. Silly to have npc’s health not recover when nothing hits them. This way its a fair battle at VoD.
I actually like it doesn’t regenerate. You can just push lord in 2 and then fail because 5 people zerged you over, they’re not going to be punished for ariving last minute if it will regenerate out of combat. You can still heal it up, though. If it was indeed the VoD case, then it would regenerate right before switching to that mode.
Have you seen the lord room? Have you thought about having 11 people there?
My bad. I took it as obligatory that if the lanes were longer, the entire map, including the lord room, would be scaled to fit more players.
That being said, I didn’t find the visuals too hard to read in the lord room, even with 7+ players in there throwing particles and sprites everywhere because I play on a 27 inch monitor with my view zoomed out all the way. Your mileage may vary.
I’ve tried playing GW2 @ 1080p and I find the HUD too invasive while models are too small. I refuse to play at less than 1440p now; but, I know that’s a luxury.
It’s rather about the room being too small and your view being blocked by structures rather than particle effects. When you count the lord room npc’s, too and everyone from both teams would be there, it would result in 27 (?) people in that small room. I don’t think a big screen would saved you there.
(edited by Laraley.7695)
If they actually did listen to the majority of pvp community and adjusted the map, so it’s more efficient to play the map as a pvp map and not a new dungeon, the timer would need to be higher
You don’t have to increase the time limit to make this happen. One easy fix is making it harder for players to kill enemy guards and buffing Archers.
You said it yourself. It would mean there would be less time to kill the lord and more games going to timer if it stayed 15 minutes.
Your argument ‘it has to stay 15 minutes because I have work irl’ just doesn’t go along with this game mode, I’m sorry.
I’m sorry but if you do not have time, then don’t play a game. Game mode shouldn’t be adjusted just because some people only have 20 minutes to play.
This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a very long time (2 days). The forums never disappoint me.
I’m sorry but why should other players adjust to you not having time? Should we just all work around your schedule and then decide how to proceed with a new game mode built on your life? I don’t think so.
I’m going to ignore your aggressive intolerance of a segment of gw2’s gaming population and just say there are several reasons why the time limit shouldn’t be increased:
- There’s already complaints of it being too long.
- Rewards. They’d need to be adjusted and compensated for the time increase. This requires balance. Ideally, I think Anet wants to keep the formats somewhat consistent when it comes to rewards.
- Based on my experience, all of the matches (90%) were pretty close. Increasing the time could widen the gap and lower the motivation of teams. You see this sometimes in conquest when one team is utterly annihilating the other.
- There’s complaints of this format constantly ending in time-outs. While I only experienced this about 10% of the time, apparently this has been an issue for many. If you fix this issue, there is no need to extend the time limit at all.
- Increasing the time raises the risk of it becoming quite stale. This is NOT like conquest where there is a constant and intense struggle for points. There’s a lot more PvE mixed in, meaning the intensity of the match isn’t as consistent.
Onto the last point, some hate this aspect, but I love the balance. It feels like it has the potential to be much more in tune with esports. There’s a “ramp up” phase where supply is being bought and guards are taken down. Then the intense phase starts when Heroes are being summoned and Lords attacked.
My agressive intolerance to other players’ lives comes from the fact I feel it’s wise to do what’s best for the gamemode itself and not build it on some people’ working schedules. It’s like you coming to a football match and asking players to end it quickly because you have to work. I don’t really see the logic there. Well, apart from being selfish and have things adjusted to that person’s life.
I don’t seen an issue with changing rewards.
I’ve seen people complaining about timer being short more rather than long.
Games goes to timer because the SH needs to be changed and matchmaking adjusted.
No, increasing timer means there will be more time for other aspects of the game mode if it’s modified properly and not just a pve speed clear.
Yeah, you’re only missing the point that at the current state, it’s best to just run and kill lord quickly and guess what. In soloq with no voice com people will be losing to one single person sneaking in their lord room and killing him. If they actually did listen to the majority of pvp community and adjusted the map, so it’s more efficient to play the map as a pvp map and not a new dungeon, the timer would need to be higher.
it’s always possible to give 50s per win if stronghold gets its own queue and takes longer than conquest. tbh this is not really a problem as long as it’s fun and the rewards are balanced.
Sure! Rewards are an easy issue to handle, I agree, but a lot of people will still avoid Stronghold if the games take 20 minutes when they can get 2-3 games of Conquest in for the same time period.
Your note about fun is important; a lot of people will find something that drones on for 20 minutes boring. What happens when all gates are down and a team is 100 points ahead of the other team due to kills and heroes and such? There is little to encourage them to actually attack the lord and risk losing their own, so they bunker down for the timer and win by timeout. Maybe it’s because my unranked MMR is fairly high, but 11 of my 16 games ended on timeout. The only time it went to a lord kill was when the enemy team (or my team) was completely mechanically inferior to their opponents. We don’t want teams in the situation where they’ll win by timer to just sit around for an extra 5 minutes to win because it’s safe.
Oh ok. No, having high MMR doesn’t mean your games will result in going to timer. It actually means the teams are fairly balanced OR it means both teams are not good enough to end the game themselves. It’s pretty much the same in conquest, teams are fairly even if games goes to timer.
Well, maybe if you sit around, it’s why your games went to timer.
Also, if you think having a bunker at your lord just gives you a free win, you obviously never faced organized teams and what they can do in a short period of time.
I’m sorry but why should other players adjust to you not having time? Should we just all work around your schedule and then decide how to proceed with a new game mode built on your life? I don’t think so.
If the game mode takes too long, you won’t have sufficient people playing it because there are other formats that are more rewarding for the time, or they simply want to get the most bang for their time playing so they go with the mode that has more games/hour, etc. There are a lot of reasons why making matches take longer is not the answer. Regardless, since it’s ANet’s goal to get people to play Stronghold, simply increasing the duration of each game is not something they should pursue recklessly.
That’s funny because if you look around the forums and saw the chat when they first showed gameplay on stronhold, almost everyone was asking for a longer timer. I guess those would be the people playing it, huh? The fact you think this way doesn’t mean everyone else does, you know. Some people just want to have fun, not farm games over and over. I also don’t see DotA or LoL having issues with player populations when their matches are WAY longer than gw2 ones, obviously you can’t really choose the duration in those games but hey, people still play it. On the other hand, gw2 is the game with problems regarding number of players.
I find it troubling that you want to adjust a game mode the way so it suits some players’ time needs. I would get all other suggestions that would improve gameplay but not this one. If ANet wants to create a community who will only play certain modes to be able to get as many games as possible, they might as well trying to stop being esports right this second.
(edited by Laraley.7695)
Replacing the archers and door breakers with players might solve some issues with the mechanics of those NPCs; but, replacing all NPCs with players might not be a complete solution.
If the lanes were longer and the number of players per team were increased to compensate (7, 9, or 11 players per team), I’d be happy to lose the heroes and lord room NPCs completely for a traditional capture the flag game type. Although, I’d move the spawn points to center and make the 3 current lanes viable for flag running.
Optionally, the lord room NPCs could simply be replaced with a capture point (which might be easier to code than the flag).
Have you seen the lord room? Have you thought about having 11 people there? I don’t even want to. It’s difficult to see what’s happening there already.
Also, if you just removed the lord, it would be a completely different game mode and the map at its current state does not allow this because getting to lord room is really really really easy. I doubt people want more conquest-like modes. Yeah, it would be different but in the end of the day it would end result in people fighting on a node…
I’m sorry but if you do not have time, then don’t play a game. Game mode shouldn’t be adjusted just because some people only have 20 minutes to play.
This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in a very long time (2 days). The forums never disappoint me.
I’m sorry but why should other players adjust to you not having time? Should we just all work around your schedule and then decide how to proceed with a new game mode built on your life? I don’t think so.
No suggestions about the NPCs are going to fix anything. Why? Because it’s AI.
My suggestion? Remove the AI.- Allow players to run bombs to doors instead. This still maintains the lane aspect.
- Archers are useless since players can kill NPCs themselves. Delete this idea completely.
- When a player successfully channels the hero buff, HE/SHE becomes the hero and gain massive buffs as well as some sort of obvious glow.And then, instead of the lord mechanic, put a flag that the opponent has to capture and bring back to their base. Flag must be at home to score.
O now I’m suggesting a retro CTF oops.
Yes, please give a buff to a player who runs high stability build just because. That makes completely no sense. Until they actually change the channel being interrupted on hit, this is a horrible idea.
No, timer should be longer, period. Making respawn times longer would only solve one issue and bring many others and one of that would be people running mostly tanky builds and I’m pretty sure no one wants to see that again.
No one would run tankier builds because against a team of DPS players no bunker can currently easily stay alive, and dying is punished by the revive timer. People would play whatever builds are most effective for team fights, mixing survivability with dps pressure… which is exactly the meta we have right now (modified only by the roles seen in Stronghold).
It’s important to respect people’s time. 20 minute games are too long and will be stale by the time they finish, even if they do end by lord kill in the last 5 minutes. It is far superior to keep the same timer and simply improve the pace of the game to minimize situations where it would go to timer.
Yes, exactly the same stale thing. No, thank you. And if dying is going to get punished a lot, way less people will want to take the risk of playing dps specs.
I’m sorry but if you do not have time, then don’t play a game. Game mode shouldn’t be adjusted just because some people only have 20 minutes to play.
I strongly disagree with the idea of extending the timer. 15 minute games are the longest they should be. Instead, they should focus on improving the pace of the game so that it ends naturally by a Lord kill before you reach the 15 minute timer.
One way to do that would be to make player revive timers longer the further into a match you are. This makes player kills more important, and rewards teams more for actually killing people by taking them out of the game for longer.
No, timer should be longer, period. Making respawn times longer would only solve one issue and bring many others and one of that would be people running mostly tanky builds and I’m pretty sure no one wants to see that again.
I’ve said this before, but I don’t think there is enough people in pvp playerbase to have separate queues for SH and conquest as long as they want to maintain short queue times.
:O Have you killed the lord by yourself and won? They aren’t faceroll targets. They are hard to kill.
I saw a mesmer do it. It is possible – but that was because no one thinks much about defending and left him/her alone to do it.
I think the Lord needs to be slightly faster. Hes so sluggish that kiting him is way too easy. I mean a Quaggan puts up a better fight.
Soloing the lord room is possible. I did it on my spirit ranger, but it was only because the enemy team was trying a five man rush while my team held them off in a 5v4 as I did it. The enemy didn’t try to stop me as they seemed to think I wasn’t capable of being a threat alone. Won the match. It was great.
I think that should remain possible, to be honest. If you actively allow someone to sit in your lord room uninhibited you should lose the game. Plus it leads to quite the satisfactory victory. A sort of “I AM A BEAST!” moment as you spike the lord all by your lonesome and win the game for your team.
It shouldn’t remain possible. Enemy team lost a game just because a thief lost a duel to me twice, they had someone defending but he just lost to me and the timeframe between me getting there and killing the lord was too short so they didn’t have a chance of coming back. So you can just throw a game as one player and your teammates won’t do anything about it, or you can carry 4 other players. I don’t think this promotes teamplay at all.
I don’t want them to remove it. I like it a lot.
The only problem is that it hides animations. It might be pretty but it’s not better gameplay wise.
Glass cannons are unreasonably strong in this gamemode. If a glass cannon encounters a player who is not a glass cannon, it is very easy for that player to simply ignore the other player and rush down their npcs while the other guy can do very little to really stop them. The whole idea of throwing npcs next to players in a pvp environment just wasn’t thought through looks to me. Tanky builds are all but useless since you can’t do much to protect your npcs. Don’t bring pve’s zerker meta into pvp please.
For once, there is a game mode that doesn’t promote shoutbows, cele engis, dd eles and such and you’re complaining about it?
Actually it does promote cele builds as those are capable of healing, cleansing and sharing boons with NPCs while also maintaining decent pressure. Escorting doorbreakers with cele staff ele or shoutbow was easy except for invading thieves. But with a bunker guard even thieves couldn’t take down a single one of our doorbreakers.
Sure.
It doesn’t really, at current state it’s best to rush their lord and you’re not gonna have a good time on dd ele. You might want to have one of these specs but I’m sure as hell you won’t want to run 5 of them.
It has been there for a few days and I hope they will remove it.
Glass cannons are unreasonably strong in this gamemode. If a glass cannon encounters a player who is not a glass cannon, it is very easy for that player to simply ignore the other player and rush down their npcs while the other guy can do very little to really stop them. The whole idea of throwing npcs next to players in a pvp environment just wasn’t thought through looks to me. Tanky builds are all but useless since you can’t do much to protect your npcs. Don’t bring pve’s zerker meta into pvp please.
I do agree with some points you had but this is just wrong. For once, there is a game mode that doesn’t promote shoutbows, cele engis, dd eles and such and you’re complaining about it? Are you really pointing out that playing conquest meta builds, which are very forgiving, high reward lower risk builds, takes more skill than playing zerker builds? Stronghold has many pve elements and yes, you can make it a speed dungeon clear game, but don’t even think about saying how zerker meta would be less skill demanding than cele one.
I don’t think they don’t like the idea, I just think they’re aware the community is too small to stand three separate queues.
Everyone seems to think they have the formula, i’m 16 wins 1 loss on solo join. I play defense every game… me+pugs have beat multiple guild premades because they went 4 rush on door. Too many factors are involved including communication and player skill to say “do this and win every time”.
Defenders need dps too ya know ^^
Doesn’t take that much DPS to bring down Zerkers.
Of course not, but they, unlike you apparently, will dodge.
Uhh, what?
Seriously, how does “doesn’t take that much DPS to bring down zerkers” translate to “I don’t dodge?” I’d love to hear the logic here.
Because you assume every zerker player will go down quickly, that doesn’t have to be true. The damage output on tankier players will be lower than on zerkers, therefore it can take the same amount of time to kill a zerker with a tanky build as to kill a tanky build with zerker.