Guild Wars 2

An engie running the kind of burn setup the streamer did is gonna be dead long before pulling it off. The ranger example on the other hand is viable, although shown by someone with a clear lack of ranger knowledge.

So, after watching the preview streamers, range and radius from off-hand training doesn’t get rolled into baseline.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Well…
… I don’t see a thematic reason for Dagger to be a gap closer. I mean – I think sword should be the one to have some, but definitely not the dagger. Dagger is supposed to be the elusive/defensive dancing weapon that – in my personal opinion – fits just well.

Of course that’s just how I feel it and you guyz might have a different opinion. But even in real life historic weapon combat – dagger is never used as a weapon to charge at your enemy.

All our off-hand weapons were balanced around having a range/radius trait, so the thematic reasoning behind doesn’t really matter. And even if it did, it’s the ranger itself that “dances” around (which in my opinion is very fitting as far as thematics go), the skill itself is still just a simple stab.

Now, I expect the radius/range from off-hand training to be made baseline. Yeah, they haven’t actually stated this anywhere, but as I’ve mentioned several times, Call of the Wild had a 750 radius as opposed to 600 in the AMA livestream meaning they have at least looked at these skills in a scenario where off-hand training doesn’t exist. And as far as I know, all the increased trait skill in the game across all professions have been made baseline (except engie grenades, but they got the mortar kit to fullfill that role), that should be the case for the ranger aswell.

Just a shame that a dozen of threads in the ranger forums haven’t gotten their attention to actually adress this.

Gern.2978:

I made the exact same points a few weeks ago as you are Strategist, and the people of this sub-forum were none too happy about them. They think that just because you believe RF needs to be changed, that you are a terrible player and need to “L2P.” That being said, I agree with you.

The opening post in your thread was a bunch of lies (like stating that RF can be made unblockable), and you ignored several of the replies to your comments.

And yet you still go on and on about the cancerous attitude of this sub-forum. Why don’t take a look in the mirror for once instead of acting like some sort of a moral compass?

Strategist.6132:

About the dodge:
Rapid Fire lasts 2,5 seconds, while a dodge only takes 0.75 seconds, so even if you would use both dodges you would still not be able to fully come out undamaged.

This gets brought up every time, and every time people seem to forget the simple fact that Rapid Fire’s channel duration was lowered. Earlier, before they lowered channel duration, two dodges actually migated less of the damage. The damage is the same, it’s just the damage per second that is higher.

This isn’t something new, people only come to realize this after several other changes to the ranger made LB builds more viable in PvP.

What most people also seem to forget is that Rapid Fire benefits immensly from Sigil of Air and Fire. You got 10 hits to proc both them, that’s a huge chunk of the damage which actually doesn’t come from the skill itself, but from sigils due do the nature of channeled skills.

Tragic Positive.9356:

We got more than enough possibilities with live traits. Believe me. That asked for a Nerf.

I’m excited abobut the changes, you know that. And it was strong, a potential overkill, I’m fully aware of that. Doesn’t change the fact that we only got one way to play around with the minors. To me, that’s a little disappointing, but at least they adknowledge how lackluster the current opening strike is.

That being said, there are other traits I would rather have them take a second look at.

Alpha.1308:

does make me wonder if something will change on the wolf itself

Because it’s better to make one pet work out with a new GM than having the option to run that pet whenever you don’t spec into BM. Yeah, no, the wolf stays like it is.

I’d guess the taunt is applied on activation and that the feared is applied after the activation is over. So the fear will override the taunt.

Blind vs bosses is getting changed to affect the defiant bar, not that it will be effective enough for it to matter.

bug I guess /15

Toxsa.2701:

Lazze.9870:

Toxsa.2701:

Lazze.9870:

Thieves will run DA, Crit and Trickery. Not SA. The buffs to that line doesn’t add anything to the thief’s current role.

Why run Trickery in PVE? This is a “PVE numbers” discussion no?

Because it has damage modifiers and gives you more initiative.

This is a “PVE numbers” discussion, no?

Well, simple solution, trait for SA when skipping and trait for Trickery after the skipping part. Problem solved. A skilled dungeon runners already do that, and it’d be even easier to do that post patch.t.

Theives has always been running trickery. 66002 in the current meta, 56003 before they recieved the +200 power while revealed trait.

SA was only usefull in longer boss fights when initiative from cloak and dagger stealth gave you a higher dps uptime than the traits from trickery. A skilled thief won’t need SA for any skipping at all, buffs doesn’t change that unless new content require so.

Usefull Trickery tratis for dungeons:
Minors:
Kleptomaniac: Stealing gives you 2 initiative.
Preparedness: Increases maximum initiative by 3.
Lead Attacks: Increases damage by 1% per initiative. Steal recharges 15% faster.

Majors:
Flanking Strike: Gain haste when attacking a foe from behind or the side.
Thrill of the Crime: When you Steal, you and all nearby allies gain fury, might, and swiftness for ten seconds.
Bountiful Theft: Stealing grants you and all nearby allies vigor. You rip boons from your target and grant them to nearby allies.

Usefull SA traits for dungeons:
Uhm, none? Yeah, your stealth lasts longer, but that isn’t really needed. It doesn’t add anything.

Other than that, your points about thieves’ spot in the meta still stands. But “SA thieves” ain’t a PvE thing.

Toxsa.2701:

Lazze.9870:

Thieves will run DA, Crit and Trickery. Not SA. The buffs to that line doesn’t add anything to the thief’s current role.

Why run Trickery in PVE? This is a “PVE numbers” discussion no?

Because it has damage modifiers and gives you more initiative.

This is a “PVE numbers” discussion, no?

Thieves will run DA, Crit and Trickery. Not SA. The buffs to that line doesn’t add anything to the thief’s current role.

It pidgeonhole us into taking Remorseless for simply getting something out of the three minors, that’s my main problem about it. The cooldown on our signets are way too long to abuse the proposed signet trait, but it still gave us a bit more to play around with without neglecting the minor traits.

The new Remorseless is great, but it only partly solves what used to be the problem, the mere fact that the only trait we had to utlize the minors was horrible. Now we have a great trait for it, but it is still just one trait. I’m all for about having tough choices, but those choices shouldn’t make the minor traits obsolete.

They could at least have merged Predator’s Instinct and Onslaught, and an add OS on signet use as a seperate adept trait if they felt the old signet trait was too strong.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

a stupid irrelevant comparison.

I think it’s safe to conclude that he doesn’t get why that is..

Natfrog.4310:

Mine sure as kittens does not out DPS my warrior with my longbow.

Yeah. You’re definitely broken.

Natfrog.4310:

But my ranger still needs to fit his description.

No, you just need to realize that the ranger never was designed to only use bows.

Natfrog.4310:

Then mine is broken

I think you’re broken.

Natfrog.4310:

Now why would a game that had a specific mechanic for a specific class not be the correct way to play the class? Better yet why continue the class at all if not to accel at said mechanic?

Allright, I’m gonna dumb it down for you.

1. Bows weren’t the mechanic for rangers in GW1. Expertise was – energy management, which affected more than just core ranger skills. " The primary attribute line enhances a profession’s “natural abilities” – http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Primary_attribute (I heard you like linking to old wiki pages).

2. There is no “correct” way to play a class/profession in a game revolved around build making. Why would they even bother giving us a choice if that was the case?

3. GW1 was built around having specific weapon attributes to different professions due to the secondary profession mechanic. As I said, that’s the only reason they split attributes across profession. And what happened the second Anet decided to not go with dual professions for GW2? Every single profession gets multiple weapons to choose from..

Natfrog.4310:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ranger
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ranger#Traits
You can put whichever spin you wish to put on it but my links are truth! Ranger is supposed to have the “go to weapon” be a bow and if I “feel” I’m better suited using a weapon of any other name the class is in fact misguided (at the very least) or broken.

Actually, you’re misguided for not understanding the simple basics of how this game works.

And for that matter, the only reason rangers had bows as it main weapon in the first game was due to how the game was built around professions having weapon specific attributes. Several META ranger builds didn’t use bows at all in the first game. Staff for spirit spammers, hammer for the famous bunny thumper build, staff for touch rangers etc. etc. And vice versa, other professions like assassins and ritualist had working builds using a bow.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

DPS is not the reason Rangers are not taken as a “Meta” class, they out DPS a warrior no worries. It is because of the low amount of group utility.

With us being able to bring Frost Spirit, Spotter and have an AoE Blind/Weakness every 4.75s, AND a taunt for pulling the trash mobs close every 15s, we are better by far than the DPS that FB adds, by far.

Add to that the possibility of a reliable group reflect if off-hand axe gets the radius from off-hand training baseline – which it should.

Ltomato.8649:

The 50% more Frost Spirit cooldown is HUGE for PvE. That is an effective 50% longer downtime on one of our best utilities, in exchange for an effective .5% boost to team damage. This is absolutely insane. It’s not a small change, it’s a gigantic one, and it’s really really not good for Rangers in PvE, where they already have a bad reputation.

The spirit effects linger, for several seconds after the spirit is gone. It won’t be a 50 % longer downtime as long as you are smart about when to use the active. We can kill it off before going out of combat now, that has it perks when the CD is increased.

First of all, ranger doesn’t refer to “range”.

Second of all, the game would be stupidly unbalanced if ranged damage was higher than melee damage.

I’m surprised people still go all “wtf RANGErs do less damage with bowz?”.

Ltomato.8649:

completely outclasses

The quickness and access to might from BM on swap, might on crit and might via sword AA quickly builds of the pet’s stacks, in addition to the extra pet stats and Pet’s Prowess. Not to mention the 10 % added bonus damage for your pet whenever you’re above 90 % health. Nature Magic could end up being the better choice, but I somewhat doubt it will “outclass” BM, especially in shorter fights.

In solo situations I’m in no doubt: BM will be better. Whenever you want GS, BM will be better. And whenever your pug group is lacking, BM will probably be better aswell. Besides that, BM promotes swapping pets, which synergizes with Clarion Bond in MM.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

2. LoYF: Agree, it is utterly useless right now because SB skills don’t really need a CD reductio.

LOYF makes the shortbow pierce aswell. I thought someone should mention it.

Just change the trait back to what it was or add movement speed to it. That would be fine.

I seriously doubt camping pets with fortifying bond will yield a higher dps than specing Beastmastery and utilizing the pet swap traits in the new pve meta. What we’re currently doing is irrelevant. Besides that, we still got the sword and the adept trait in bm to grant the pet additional might.

Reelix.6319:

> • Poison master: When you swap pets, your pet’s next attack will cause 2 stacks of poison for 8 seconds.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Master – Read Bug Note 2 – I doubt this will be fixed.

> Clarion Bond: Cast call of the wild when you swap pets.

1.) Does the buff affect your pet as well as you?
2.) Does this version act as a blast finisher?
3.) Why does ArenaNet never say when these traits are in combat – I assume so?

It literally says “cast call of the wild”, as in the skill. Of course the blast finisher is there. It’s even affected by the warhorn trait.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

If Predator’s Instinct functionality is merged with Predator’s Onslaught, they can change PI’s functionality to; Whenever you hit with an Opening Strike, you lose one condition. And I would be very happy.

An adept trait dependent on a GM trait for working at all isn’t really that good.. at all. Needs something else.

1. Merge Predator’s Instinct with Predator’s Onslaught. Open slot for an adept trait that doesn’t suck

2. Add back the opening strike on signet like they showed us in the AMA livestream. The revamp of Remorseless is a great way of playing around with the minor traits, but we’re pidgeon holed in to this one trait if we want any use out them outside the start of a fight. OS on signets was a great idea – OS would have been stronger, and SotH would have benefited massively from it.

3. Revert the shortbow trait LOYF. The old one was okay, there was no reason to make it worse or trying to make it “more interesting” or whatever the added damage after dodging is supposed to be.

4. MDG isn’t GM worthy. Period. I wasn’t even a fan of it as an adept trait, but as an adept trait it wasn’t nearly as underwhelming as it is now. I don’t see why anyone would pick it over Quick Draw, or even LOYF if you’re running shortbow. The concept is allright, but what they’re doing is the exact the same thing they did when adding Strider’s Defense back in the days. It isn’t build defining, it’s just a niche yolo trait that is nowhere good enough to defend a spot as a GM – just like Strider’s Defense was.

5. Strider’s Defense: quick fix, add back the damage modifier and the projectile block proc and swap it with MDG. Probably better alternatives, but it’s an obvious improvement nevertheless.

6. Condi and WS: I actually don’t mind their placement (although I see why most people do), but EB is still underwhelming as a GM trait and WK lost sharpening stones for no reason. Poison Master is dead at its current location.

7. Invigorating Bond: No, Anet, for the last time, a 2k heal on a 20 second cooldown isn’t GM worthy. It never was.

I wanna see traps and spirits in action before making up my mind, but I’m not too excited about the spirits. Traps might be good.

The BM line is actually pretty decent at this point compared to the current one. Thumbs up. The removal of 20 % recharge on pet skills from one of the minors kinda sucks, but oh well.

Opening strike with sign.. Wait, right. They removed that one synergy they were soooo proud of during the last livestream.

Speaking of moment of clarity, wouldn’t surprise me if a daze caused by a spirit wouldn’t count, just like interrupts caused by pets don’t. We already know the damaging part of it doesn’t scale with the ranger’s stats. #AnetLogic.

Guys… Look at the radius from Call of the Wild. 750 is what warhorn is now when traited with off-hand training, the same number an untraited version had during the AMA livestream, which means they’re aware of it. If they’re just sticking with the current base range/radius numbers, that’s what they intended to do – which sucks, but at this point I’m not even a tiny bit surprised. They obviously enjoy screwing us over.

This is what Beastmaster’s Bond looked like during the AMA:

Was looking forward to opening strike refresh from signet. Obviously turned out to be too good to be true.

Predator’s instinct and onslaught merge is a no brainer, can’t believe instinct still exist when they were specifically merging these kind of traits. Instinct is kinda like Panic Strike’s kittened brother, and even that is stretching it. Why would you ever run it?

The changes to Light on your Feet is horrible. The shortbow rewards you for moving around and then they REMOVE that part of the SB trait and introduce some stupid damage buff tied to dodging.

The overall changes are okay for the most part, but kitten, some of these changes to previously proposed traits are just laughable.

style.6173:

Blude.6812:

Ranger—nerf —nerf -- nerf.
Maybe one day anet will listen to their paying customers instead of giving them the 5 finger salute. But Anet knows best.

I can just imagine that you had this all planned out ahead of time. Then it turned out that ranger got a lot of buffs. So you had to decide what to do. Since you came up with something creative you decided to post it anyway. I understand.

Yeah, we will see how these “buffs” fare when the core ranger still won’t break into any of the metas. And why the hell they removed some of the interesesting trait proposals from the last stream is beyond me.

There is something wrong when a bloody awful trait like predator’s instinct isn’t just rolled into predator’s onslaught to keep it in line with all the other trait merges.

Predator’s instinct still sucks, they removed opening strike from the signet trait. Just to mention something.

Yeah, they killed off some of my excitement from the last preview.

Tragic Positive.9356:

Um, I mean … Dungeons as such melt in Zerk Setup. And it’s not even considered competitive. Drop 2 icebows and the dungeons is as good as done, right?

But the DPS got me curious (since I got to play warrior and guard only a few times). Thanks for pointing that out.

Just another reason why it’s laughable that people want “optimal” comps for certain dungeons. Drop an icebow for the ranger while using SotW and QZ, and poof, the boss is dead. It makes the profession specific dps calculations kinda redundant in certain scenarios.

Speaking of, rangers were actually the third best damage dealing class while using FGS when that used to be a thing due to SotW, and that was before the september buffs.

The conjure weapon nonsense is just cancer.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@ Lazze
Is the Ranger’s DPS calculated to be the mid tier?
As far as I am aware, their tunnel sequence has the highest potential with highest numbers as long as 8 second fight goes.

I terms of 15+ – Morph Necro is the top.
In terms of semi-instant burst – Ele>Warr>guard is the thing.

Well, yeah. Top mid if you calculate 30 seconds rotations for each classes with all buffs available. It’s just an expected estimate which people usually refer to when they calculate dps for dungeons.

If you wanna point out situational fights like in AC where the bosses literally melt, then yes, the ranger’s damage potential is pretty much up right up there. Our initial dps is immense.

Rogue Potato.4723:

So iv’e noticed a lot of posts about; rangers getting kicked from PvE groups because they’re a hinderance, not having enough DPS

Made by the same kind of people that don’t understand why the meta is how it is and still make LFG posts looking for a second warrior for “dps”. People that think waiting another 2 minutes is worth not bringing an engie, a ranger or even a necro instead of waiting for that “perfect comp”. It’s laughable. None of the classes are “an hindrance”, bad players are.

As for you conclusion, sword/axe is the ranger’s current best damaging weaponset for doing dungeons with a fully buffed team – the potential damage puts the ranger in the mid tier, with thief and ele being in the top tier. The shortbow doesn’t come close in a scenario like this, and is furthermore limited by the bleed cap and by being a single target weapon.

So yeah, no, telling them you’re gonna use shortbow instead when they want you to run the meta is a valid reason for them to kick you.

Toxsa.2701:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Elementalists-Specializations-Trait-Changes/first#post5134075

I love how the first reply in that thread suggests that half of the devs actually main rangers.

.. when the truth is that none of them do.

Edit: and the amount of warriors who think fast hand and warrior sprint baseline is fair? Wow.. Just wow.

Draeyon.4392:

edit: Btw, with a Power Greatsword build like this, what will be the standard skirmishing GM trait? Strider’s Defence, Quick Draw and Most Dangerous Game all look really good.

MDG is an adept trait. Luckily. It isn’t worth a GM unless they change it up.

Wondrouswall.7169:

As for the boon duration, the only pet that could take advantage of pre-stacking before combat was Jungle Stalker, but even with the trait and F2 reduced cd, it couldn’t even keep 100% uptime due to the 3 second cast.

The in combat requirement was added at a time when you could play around with pet swapping and refresh pet skills (perhaps it worked with mighty swap aswell, not sure). You used to be able to stack up a stupid amount of boons with certain pets. Hence our earlier discussion about Anet not reverting these kind of changes when they’re no longer relevant.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Although I do think it still messes up if you are using a fire sigil and the aoe hits another player, haven’t tested that one in awhile though.

It doesn’t, referring to my attachment.

Panncakez.1290:

if Hunter’s Shot going to pierce and hit second target, you’re gonna get revealed. .

Do you, though? Not that I run piercing arrows alot, but I haven’t noticed this happening.

Sebrent.3625:

I imagine it isn’t hate but oversight.

Same. I just find it funny.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m right there with you Lazze. Wondered this myself for quite some time. There is a lack of consistency that I hope ArenaNet addresses … either with:

• consistency between same mechanics
• compensation for the disparities in the mechanics to balance out those differences

Took them two years to adress the inconsistency of ranger signets compared to other professions. I got no high hopes for them to adress the remaining inconsistencies in the near future.

Not sure if they’re even aware of them at this point. They specifically said the old ranger signets where a bit unfair compared to other professions.. Well, guess what Anet, you got a bunch of ranger traits suffering from the same thing.

Edit: when I come to think about it, tailwind and furious grip didn’t use to have ICD. I bet the in combat requirements are still there for the same reason it’s still there for pet traits – they don’t pay attention to the actually changes which make these limitations not only redundant but even unbalanced. And they actually wonder why people think they hate rangers?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Also, why make a trait like Expertise Training NOT take effect until you get into combat? Makes no sense.

None of these “combat only” traits make any sense.

Not even furious grip and tailwind. They got internal cooldowns matching the cooldown of weapon swapping in combat, so it’s not like you can spam them anyway. Engies get acces to perma swiftness when equiping a kit, with no combat requirement, so why is the ranger limited? Same thing with protect on dodging compared to thieves and their might and swiftness on dodge. It doesn’t seem very well thought out at all, and besides, removing the requirement would grant the ranger some welcomed mobility outside of leaps.

I think the pet traits where made like this because you previously could take advantage of F2 recharges on pet swap back in the days when using Concentration Training to stack tons of boons, but that isn’t even a thing anymore. No wonder why people get the feeling that the ranger has been overlooked as far as balancing goes for a long time when they don’t even care to revert changes that doesn’t make any sense anymore.

Genlog.4983:

lets say it so
if every1 just want ubber dps to kill fast what is the use of so many type off gear then and builds that anet made ??

Sigh. The game has a great and diverse build and gear system, but that doesn’t mean jack kitten when the pve content is lackluster.

It doesn’t make sense to argue that the game has tons of possible build diversity and that those possibilities should be utilized when the game doesn’t have any content that requires it.

https://youtu.be/MW-ogol0VQQ?t=1h51m

Sebrent.3625:

@Lazze:
Do we need to outclass the Warrior’s banners? If so, why?.

Because the current role of both the warrior and the ranger in the dungeon meta is the same, they both provide offensive group buffs. The warrior currently excells at this, the only reason it’s being picked over a ranger.

It’s a theoretical “solution”, not something I think will happen and it certainly isn’t the “best” solution. Unless you’re ranger biased, obviously…

Valkyrie.1794:

If only we could get some DPS increase in PvE that wouldn’t cause people to Q.Q all over the floor in sPvP.

A personal DPS increase wouldn’t do anything to our PvE situation, it’s already pretty high – actually 3rd/4th with engie depending on the situation, and it will get higher with the upcoming trait changes.

One out of three things needs to happen. 1)We either get offensive support buffs that outclasses the banners and the access to mightstacking the warrior has (we got 100 % fury uptime, which would be great if Persisting Flames didn’t make it redundant), or 2) we get utilities that can replace other classes on top of bringing FrostSpotter. Or 3), the ele gets nerfed to the point where switching one of them out for a ranger is concidered “optimal”. Beating the icebow with the nerfbat is a start..

Howardjones.7645:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Ventari was not a druid, so I doubt it

He wasn’t a druid, but he was druid like.

He wasn’t even “druid-like”, not from a Guild Wars perspective.

Something people need to keep in mind when speculating on what the druid will do. Guild Wars druids are far different from the general fantasy druid.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Lazze.9870
That would be a nerf, it already scales with the pet’s healing power.

How is that a nerf? It is exactly the same healing and functionality, just divided between the Ranger and pet evenly.

Never mind, didn’t notice the heal per second on both.