Guild Wars 2

DarknessKitty.4801:

And the same goes for Leo G, sorry to wake you up from your lovely dream, but that’s what you have been doing

Show me where I am doing what you’re saying.

DarknessKitty.4801:

Both of you are being unrespectful.

Counter to popular belief, respect isn’t a right, it’s a privilege usually earned or mutually understood. Now it is against the forum rules to be disrespectful to others, and I do believe I am not being disrespectful in my posts here. If I am being disrespectful, please show me where.

DarknessKitty.4801:

And LeoG…. nothing to say. What women wear is nothing of your business, and yet, if you think GW2 skimpy armor = real life wome clothes, then you should stop playing videogames cause you are suffering a distorted reality. Try making real friends and going out, i,m serious, not mocking

You’re telling me I don’t have friends and don’t go out, i.e. I’m a shut in. If that isn’t disrespectful, I don’t know what to tell you. Beside that (frankly don’t take offense because you seriously don’t know anything about me), you are straw-manning my argument vehemently. I’m going to assume the post of mine you quoted is the example that I think skimpy armor = real life clothes for women, but you fail to actually see the reason I draw the parallel in the first place.

I bring up real life women and the clothes they wear because they chose to wear it! Women choose to wear the clothes they wear just like players choose to dress their characters certain ways and it has nothing to do with them having only skimpy options (because they don’t, fyi). And just to clarify if that was a bit difficult to follow for you, I’m not arguing for or against skimpy armor additions (I’m actually for more options), I’m arguing against the notion that the choices female characters have and male characters have is a product of sexism or discrimination.

Audra.8057:

The Greyhawk.9107:

DarknessKitty.4801:

So the OP asks politely for equally skimpy armor for male characters, and some guys start talking about how the op is exagerating with the sexism/sexualization of female armor, while others talk about how wrongly women dress in real life and how that should affect how we want to dress our characters in a game.
And those very same people think that asking for simple things is easier for us because we are women. Really xD

Everyone, I would like you to take note of the above statement, as it is a perfect example of what is known as ‘The Straw-man Fallacy’.

“A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent’s argument, while refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.”

You have been doing this in this ENTIRE thread.

Where?

The majority of the posts he made is more commentary about other people being overly sensitive to perceived options (i.e. women are overly sexualized, Anet has sexist designers, there are not any options to cover female bodies, Anet doesn’t understand we all hate being forced to dress skimpy as females, etc). That’s completely different from telling us that the reason we explain gender difference in real life clothes is because we think that fact should affect the style of the armors.

DarknessKitty.4801:

So the OP asks politely for equally skimpy armor for male characters, and some guys start talking about how the op is exagerating with the sexism/sexualization of female armor, while others talk about how wrongly women dress in real life and how that should affect how we want to dress our characters in a game.
And those very same people think that asking for simple things is easier for us because we are women. Really xD

So you decide to jump in and throw in your two cents by making bad and wrong generalizations to get a rise out of people so they’ll quote you? Really xD

Back on topic: practically all my characters wear form fitting armor/outfits and my male characters do have bare skin/fur showing. The problem I have is the options available are slim so I’m recycling the same several parts, and there aren’t many options for male characters to show parts of their bare legs without attaching a long skirt to it.

Firebrand is a term, when referring to a person, used to describe someone who causes unrest or strife in a group by aggressively promoting a cause. In a religious tone, it’s someone who preaches in an aggressive way. It harkens to a period of evangelical firebrands that would call people sinners and how they’d burn in hell.

I was playing yesterday. Had no idea.

Didn’t they used to just send that stuff in the mail? Oh well…

Zenith.7301:

Leo G.4501:

Zenith.7301:

You’ll never get parity since Kristen Perry left the character/art team and she was the only one championing equality.

Now all armor is half naked female with males virtually in full body veils.

Again, when people speak in hyperbole, I feel forced to expose it.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-warbeast-light-armor-set.jpg
vs
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-warbeast-light-armor-set-2.jpg

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-elonian-light-armor-set.jpg
vs
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-elonian-light-armor-set-2.jpg

Now grab all the armors. Not just your cherry picked cases which make the vast minority.

Did you not say “You’ll never get parity since Kristen Perry left the character/art team and she was the only one championing equality.”? Those links may be aimed to provide more parity. Like i said, hyperbole…

Fyi, those are light armor sets that will be released in the PoF expansion.

Zenith.7301:

You’ll never get parity since Kristen Perry left the character/art team and she was the only one championing equality.

Now all armor is half naked female with males virtually in full body veils.

Again, when people speak in hyperbole, I feel forced to expose it.

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-warbeast-light-armor-set.jpg
vs
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-warbeast-light-armor-set-2.jpg

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-elonian-light-armor-set.jpg
vs
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/gw2-elonian-light-armor-set-2.jpg

STIHL.2489:

No.. what is going on in GW2 is this..

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Masquerade_armor_human_male_front.jpg

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Masquerade_armor_human_female_front.jpg

See.. the problem that everyone is talking about?

All i see from that example is poorly designed clothing for both sexs.

The Greyhawk.9107:

Leo’s got a point here, in a white collar job men are almost universally required to wear a button down shirt and slacks (and often a tie and a jacket). Women in this sphere at least do typically have more options, including options to, you guessed it, expose more skin. And not even in any salacious way either, a very modest knee-length skirt does show skin, whereas men can’t really get away with wearing shorts. I’ll admit I’m not sure how to necessarily apply this to game armors, but outside that Leo’s still correct.

lol now you’re making me blush. No one ever agrees with me but perhaps it’s because I tend to take a contrary stance on most subjects.

Black Frog.9274:

If you want to wear something more traditionally associated with gender, you’re still free to do so and you’ve still got options. But, I’m not sure how your comment applies to the aforementioned male chest revealing and female chest revealing items. Are you saying that chest revealing men look like women? Or vice versa? I’m not clear on your point here.

There was nothing mentioning “chest revealing” in the post you quoted. The question my reply was answering was “Why are armors gender defined in any event?”.

STIHL.2489:

But that is exactly what this discussion is about. Imagine if you worked in an Office were Men wore full length Slacks and a button up long sleeve shirt, Shirt, and Women were expected to wear biker chaps, a thong and a Bodice.

Bad example. Imagine you and a group of buddies from work decide to go out for a drink. The guys may wear something like this:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/95/09/f2/9509f2c0441bd9e1c6f259e020b3e1a1--casual-outfits-hombre-mens-casual-outfits-summer.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a9/d3/5e/a9d35e9e223fdbad66aa0af95fc2c7b1--dope-fashion-fashion-men.jpg

While your female friends may wear something similar to the above OR:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c4/be/00/c4be007e0317bf1023a36d0efe0de76a.jpg
http://i.pinger.pl/pgr111/58c2dd410001203e4c85392f/zara1.jpg

And that is what is happening in GW2 (what happens in other MMOs is a different story), female characters are given skimpy gear along side modest gear and male characters are partially excluded from skimpy gear.

STIHL.2489:

All anyone is asking for is to give the guys the Chaps, thong and muscle shirt, while the women wear their chaps, thong and bodice, and I don’t think that is being unreasonable.

Like I said in a previous post, there’s nothing wrong with asking for more options but when people make blatantly false statements or over-exaggerations, you leave room for people to punch your posts in the gut and weaken your requests.

Ashantara.8731:

Black Frog.9274:

Why are armors gender defined in any event? If its a body model issue, just create male and female versions of everything. How hard can it be?

Its a new world, Anet. Get with the program.

So much this.

It likely has something to do with players wanting their female character to look like women and their male character to look like men.

STIHL.2489:

Leo G.4501:

STIHL.2489:

Xbon.9086:

STIHL.2489:

Minor Reminder: This is a topic asking for the addition of Skimpy Male Armors to go along with the Skimpy Female armor..

This is not asking to remove any of the existing Skimpy Female armor.

it’s still silly and unnecessary, women typically wear skimpy clothes out in public, but you never see a dude with his shirt off at the store for example.

yah know.. there are signs on most store doors that say “No shirt no Service” for a reason.

But that aside, where I live, I see a lot of guys wearing “muscle” shirts, spandex shorts, sometimes wearing nothing but sneakers and speedos™ while out power walking.

So honestly I have no idea what you are talking about.

What about in casual settings like going out to eat with friends, going to a movie or concert, going out for a drink with your work friends, going to school, going to work or even formal settings like work meetings, recitals, formal banquets, ect?

It’s still about the same. I don’t get where people think that women dress like tramps all the time and men are modest. It just ain’t what I see.

It’s not about dressing like tramps (i never said that) it’s about the amount of covering and the variety of options. So you’re saying that, for example, in a formal work setting with a professional dress policy, men and women have the same amount of options?

Dawdler.8521:

Shadowwaka.1952:

I’ve actually been thinking about this recently! The common answer to condition damage is vitality since you’ll have more health to burn through, but that line of thought also applies for direct damage too. So, why not take it a step further?

My whole concept was that fully prioritizing vitality would give you a 30% reduction in condition duration to conditions applied to you. This means that a full set of ascended Vitality-main weapons / armor + vitality-main runes / trinkets (2557 vitality) will achieve this.

You can, however, also sacrifice some vitality and use Melandru runes to get above 30% while losing some health, but the choice is really yours.

The formula I came up with for this was
(( [Player Vitality]-1000 ) x ( 30 / (2557 – 1000)))/100

But, paragraphs aside, here is a sheet with different percent calculations for different armor sets (Custom 1 is base vitality with Melandru Runes + Food, Custom 2 is max vit + Melandru Runes + Food).
Also note that Food and Runes can currently (in the game right now) give 45% condition duration reduction.

So how exactly doesnt this vastly empower bunker condi builds forcusing on only toughness, vitality and condition? Do we want condi bunkers to reign supreme, being tough against power and condi damage? Cause this is how you get condi builds. They are the only ones that can focus vitality and still pack a punch.

Plainly speaking (that is not speaking on special strong meta builds but just in a balance context) they wouldn’t have as strong of duration on their condis making a good counter being someone also decked out in -duration along with cleansing. Or perhaps just a plain power build with cleansing?

My point being, if 2/3 of their stats are defensive, and offense should require 2 stats or more, that should leave a weakness. If it’s not the case, then thats what we’re here to discuss.

Why not just hand over your design to a friend from the UK or NA or wherever along with all rights and credit? If they are your friend and they win, they likely will credit you via word of mouth. Or is that against the rules?

STIHL.2489:

Xbon.9086:

STIHL.2489:

Minor Reminder: This is a topic asking for the addition of Skimpy Male Armors to go along with the Skimpy Female armor..

This is not asking to remove any of the existing Skimpy Female armor.

it’s still silly and unnecessary, women typically wear skimpy clothes out in public, but you never see a dude with his shirt off at the store for example.

yah know.. there are signs on most store doors that say “No shirt no Service” for a reason.

But that aside, where I live, I see a lot of guys wearing “muscle” shirts, spandex shorts, sometimes wearing nothing but sneakers and speedos™ while out power walking.

So honestly I have no idea what you are talking about.

What about in casual settings like going out to eat with friends, going to a movie or concert, going out for a drink with your work friends, going to school, going to work or even formal settings like work meetings, recitals, formal banquets, ect?

Astralporing.1957:

Leo G.4501:

But you can do damage to foes that are dodging or blocking or out of range with condis. If you apply the condis first.

You can also do damage to foes that are dodging, or blocking, or out of range with power damage too. If you hit them first.

In both cases you need to hit someone first. It’s just that in case of power damage, that’s all you need – the damage is already applied and done then. In case of condis however, you also need to wait for the condis to tick – the damage is not caused immediately, but only later. Which gives the attacked person additional time to react.

You may think that condi damage is some easymode, apply and forget, no effort needed, but only because you completely skip over that “apply” part.

You’re missing the point of why I even brought it up though. As I said before, power has the advantage of ferocity but condition has the advantage of duration. I.e. power is boosted by ferocity but NOT duration while condition is boosted by duration and NOT ferocity.

I didn’t say condition damage is easy mode, I said each has their advantages and disadvantages.

Ashen.2907:

The Greyhawk.9107:

Ashen.2907:

The Greyhawk.9107:

I’ve a question for those of you that are saying that the game is sexist for having some ‘skimpy’ armors for females: what do you say to female players, regardless of their own real life proclivity, that want there to be these types of armors for their female characters? Over the years I’ve asked of the many female gamers I’ve met, particularly in both gw1 and gw2, whether they’d life for ‘skimpy’ armors to be done away with completely. And almost without exception the answer has been an emphatic Kitten No (with only one exception that comes to mind of an older gamer that would only make Asura). I mean, if its something women also want, is it still sexist?

A woman, or even some women, wanting something does not prevent it from being sexist. There are women who believe, or at least state that they believe, that women should be subbordinate to men. Sexist even if the person stating the belief is female.

That’s a big leap from personal tastes to think oneself is subordinate to another. And also a mine-field if I ever saw one. To be frank, you don’t really have to tell me that in certain parts of the world where there is a real patriarchy, yes women are taught to believe that but in respect to this discussion, which ones probably going to play video games: the one that just likes to show a little skin or the one that lives….in other places?

You asked if something can be sexist even if a woman wants it. I pointed out that it can be, and provided an example. The example, for what its worth, is not from some, “other places,” or, “certain parts of the world,” but rather is taken from members/citizens of, theoretically, enlightened countries and cultures.

Something can be sexist regardless of the gender of the individual who desires it.

At some point though, you have to understand the actual definition of words so you can clarify a personal interpretation of a situation. Sexist and sexism is prejudice or discrimination by sex. That may look cut-and-dry negative but prejudice is not a bad thing, we do it every day to evaluate situations and keep ourselves safe and out of bad situations, and discrimination is a completely neutral thing that people can’t help but do for everything (have you seen how many categories of gender there are on the internet? that’s discriminating individuals into groups by perceived sexual orientation/preferences).

Now sexist is discriminating by sex which, in this context, is a good thing for female characters but labeled as bad. Females characters have choices that some male characters want. This may have to do with relating to realism, where women tend to dress more fashionably and more expressively while men dress for utility and more strictly which is why you don’t have as many open chest/bare arm options for men (because it reflects life) or perhaps it’s just that most simply don’t care and are using their resources on what sells. This might also reflect majority opinion, as you don’t see that many threads about “skimpy male armor” (I post in every one that pops up).

But if the latter were true, and it’s more about majority and not about some agenda, then all we have to do is ask for options. There’s no reason to give an excuse (sexism) for asking for said option. Even the most infuriating game to play as a male character (Tera), I wouldn’t call sexist, they just aiming for cash so they only release new classes for female characters…I don’t play that game much anymore.

Catastro.8410:

Leo G.4501:

Astralporing.1957:

Leo G.4501:

You say condi doesn’t have the advantage to crit, well power doesn’t have the advantage of duration.

Having all the damage be applied over time instead of at once is not an advantage. Duration just gives your opponent more time to do something about it.

Not if you’re CC’ed or out of range or your opponent is stealthed or invulned.

Astralporing.1957:

Leo G.4501:

Then there’s the fact you can just bomb a lot of condis on something and just peace out while the victim DoTs to death.

or you can just burst someone with power and have him dead right there, no need to wait.

In a perfect world where the opponent doesn’t move or dodge or block or use boons or apply conditions and your attacks have infinite range and always crit and you’re immortal so you never have to use dodges or heals or cleanses or CCs and you just whale on people with attacks all day…maybe.

That same braindead nonsense also applies to condi as well.

But you can do damage to foes that are dodging or blocking or out of range with condis. If you apply the condis first.

Look, you can’t win this argument. It’s just not going to happen lol.

Astralporing.1957:

Leo G.4501:

You say condi doesn’t have the advantage to crit, well power doesn’t have the advantage of duration.

Having all the damage be applied over time instead of at once is not an advantage. Duration just gives your opponent more time to do something about it.

Not if you’re CC’ed or out of range or your opponent is stealthed or invulned.

Astralporing.1957:

Leo G.4501:

Then there’s the fact you can just bomb a lot of condis on something and just peace out while the victim DoTs to death.

or you can just burst someone with power and have him dead right there, no need to wait.

In a perfect world where the opponent doesn’t move or dodge or block or use boons or apply conditions and your attacks have infinite range and always crit and you’re immortal so you never have to use dodges or heals or cleanses or CCs and you just whale on people with attacks all day…maybe.

The Greyhawk.9107:

Ashantara.8731:

The Greyhawk.9107:

I’ve a question for those of you that are saying that the game is sexist for having some ‘skimpy’ armors for females: what do you say to female players, regardless of their own real life proclivity, that want there to be these types of armors for their female characters?

That is not the point here. The point it (a) to have alternatives, and (b) to have equality by providing the same amount of bare skinned armor sets for male characters.

Which part of what the OP explained clearly did you not understand?

Am I not allowed to ask a question? Particularly one that is in line with the overall theme of this thread? Since when do any forums threads not deviate slightly as the conversation moves forward? And in your case, why does the inclusion of some (and lets be honest, its not a lot in this game) so called skimpy outfits that you’ve deemed ‘sexist’ not also add to ‘having alternatives’? And (stated mostly to prevent someone from implying it) have I said I"d be against so called “equality” of armor types? I came from Gw1, we had dudes going around in speedos and tattoos as armor.

Haha no one wants to be caught holding the Politics Potato yet can’t seem to hold an argument without resorting to it. I’m not sure why the whole sexist argument was used in the first place but with regards to equality and sex, I don’t believe people in fact want equality at all. They want their female characters to look like females and their male characters to look like males. The amount of players that want their male characters to look like women is likely small and the amount of players who want their female characters to look like men are likely just as small.

There are a lot of sources on the topic, where a society has more freedom and choices, you have a larger divide between sex, not a smaller one. That isn’t to say just make all females wear dresses and all males wear full-body plate, but the argument about things being sexist or not tend to fall on the grounds of ‘not’, at least in the context of this thread.

And tattoo armor would be amazing and likely very easy to mix and match with other armor parts.

Another idea that came to mind:

• Regeneration is very overlooked. It doesn’t do too much outside of healing builds and even in healing builds, it’s only a modest supplement. Why not allow Regen some synergy with condi protection like giving you a flat -33% condition duration or coupled with my idea for Precision/Saving Throw, make Regen the equivalent of Fury but adds a +20% chance of Saving Throw (halving the damage of all condi for a tic).

Ashantara.8731:

That’s not really the point here. The point is taste. And many people prefer realistic looking heavy armor — the point not being the realism per se but the look. Tiddy holders just look ridiculous and their purpose is obvious. Also, why must the female version of an armor set look skimpy while the male version does not??

Something else we cannot agree on. Please do not speak for “many people” and just stick to your own opinions.

I don’t prefer realistic armor because realistic armor, for the most part, is boring. I like armor that looks good. Period. That tends to steer into the realm of more form-fitting attire that doesn’t bulk out portions of the body, open-ness in some spaces (because I’m sure it’s super realistic for someone clad in plate from head to toe to go rolling around and flipping hands-free in the air) to accentuate the armored/covered spots and stylized (half the time I scroll through the wardrobe options, I’m yawning looking at 25 variants of plated/chainmail/spikes/the former but with some glowie design on it). Armor should be aimed to, first and foremost, be a completely different look from anything else you have the option to wear.

Ashantara.8731:

Comparing GW2 with other games doesn’t make the point being made in this thread any less valid. (One of many reasons why I don’t play any of those other games is the sexist design of female characters. We have that, too, in GW2, just not to that extent. But it’s still a valid point to be made and to be heard by the devs.)

So is there a “sexist problem” or not? Is your agenda to fix a non-problem? Because apparently GW2 has options and continues to add options for everyone.

Ashantara.8731:

It’s the reason why, as a female player (and no, I am not into men btw ), I play mostly male characters. The armor choices for females are just awfully sexist or overly “femme” (which doesn’t fit an adventurer)!

Also, the posture, i.e. the way female characters walk, sit and even stand, is ridiculous (and makes me want to call a chiropractor). I can’t take them seriously as heroines.

Indeed. Not just for the cause of equality, but also for aesthetic reasons, I would like to see some male armor that shows more neck, a bit of chest, bare arms (biceps, forearms etc.). The whole “bare skin” thing is very one-sided in this game (the only male armor sets that do show more bare skin are the super ugly, primitive looking gladiator-themed sets, of which there are two if I recall correctly).

Not something that I agree with. I like to make points too but not by over-simplifying issues, hyperbolizing and over-reacting to those hyperbolas.

Hybarf Tics.2048:

Why do you think characters are covered up to their necks even in the desert.

Protection from the sun? How else do you think everyone looks like they’re in their late teens-mid twenties?

Astralporing.1957:

You want both of the damage types to be on equivalent terms? Sure, let’s allow for toughness/armor to reduce the damage. But only when we at the same time allow condi damage to crit and be increased by Ferocity (and damage instantly, instead of having to wait few seconds to see whether the opponent won’t cleanse all of it).

If you don’t want that, admit that you’re not interested in damage type equality at all, and all you want is a condi damage nerf (because you can’t deal with it yourself).

Honestly, I’d say if you’re going to be biased, at least admit to being so. I’m personally biased toward power damage but I do enjoy playing condi as well and I can tell you each have advantages.

If we’re going to speak about equality (and you’re not going to get perfect equality for anything, afaik) then you have to take into consideration all the advantages and disadvantages. You say condi doesn’t have the advantage to crit, well power doesn’t have the advantage of duration. You say condi has the disadvantage of being cleansed, well power has the disadvantage of fumble. Condi has other advantages too, like the magnification you can get from traits that proc condis on many different things but there really is no equivalent for power damage (just procing more damage just because). There are some instances, like popping aegis doing damage or ripping boons doing damage or disabling foes doing damage but it’s not as prevalent as condis, imo. Then there’s the fact you can just bomb a lot of condis on something and just peace out while the victim DoTs to death.

I personally wouldn’t want condi and power to be completely equal because that would likely require them to be the same. But each should have their drawbacks and strengths.

Adding my suggestions to the idea pool:

• Vitality. Several things could be done here. I’d perscibe all of the folowing. Make vitality a closer counter for expertise, lowering condi duration as well as having barrier take 25% less damage from condis while you have it.

• Precision. I personally do not like the stat as there ar better opportunity costs replacements (forced crits and flat crit chance bonuses). To make this stat more inticing, give the stat a % chance to half all condi damage for a tic starting at 0% without invested precision. Call it a saving throw. Also, make cripple condi the equivalent of weakness (decreasing your chance at a saving throw by 50%). Conceptually, precision could be your keen eye to strike at critical locations while also minimalising necessary movement to make such actions, decreasing the chance of opening your wounds to bleed out faster, damaging yourself in confusion less critical, fanning flames on you less, ect.

• Trait and utility cleansing could be designed to prioritize damaging conditions. Like if a utility skill removes 3 condis, it could be changed to remove 1 damaging condi + 2 others (or if you dont have a damaging condi, remove 3 other). Purging flames can remove poison first before removing any others. Water type cleansing could remove burning before other condis. Ect.

Danikat.8537:

I agree it would be nice to have more options for male armour.

I was really disappointed when I started looking for something for my charr thief – I’d spent ages deciding on a fur pattern and colours for him and I wanted it visible, but the best I could get was the Order of Whispers coat which has 1 bare arm, 1 arm partly covered and a random opening in the back.

Wrangler’s Coat, Trapper’s Coat and Leystone Jerkin are alternative options. IMO, it’s not all about showing skin but also being form-fitting vs bulky poofy additions coming off your shoulders, waist and back.

The Greyhawk.9107:

I can’t help but laugh at how there are two almost equally loud groups, one decrying the comparative lack of skimpy female armor, and another turned off by the apparent absurdity of female skimpy armor and/or the unfairness of it compared to male armor.

Just goes to show that there’s no pleasing everyone.

What I find equally absurd is how just having the option to cloth a female character in skimpy armor is labeled as sexualizing them and yet, what do a large portion of women wear casually, at work or at school? Most aren’t trying to wear loose jeans and a regular-lengthed short sleeve shirt.

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Leo G.4501:

The Greyhawk.9107:

Danikat.8537:

Just for fun I set myself the challenge of putting together GW2’s most prestigious costume – all the rarest, hardest to obtain skins and most expensive dyes together. Surely a thing of glory to behold!

My attempt is below and since a lot has changed since I last tried this in 2014 and I think there’s many more options now I’d love to hear your thoughts and maybe even see some alternate takes on it.

Featured in my attempt is:

• Celebration Hat (free give-away during the headstart weekend)
• Glorious Hero’s Shoulderguards (place 1st in a PvP tournament)
• Perfected Envoy Jerkin (legendary armour)
• Fire God’s Vambraces (30 Hall of Monuments points)
• Mistforged Triumphant Hero’s Legguards (1900 WvW rank + purchase earlier versions)
• Invisible Boots (about 2,000-3,000 gold)
• Eternity (combine both other legendary greatswords)
• Warbringer (legendary WvW backpack)

Dyes are Permafrost, Shadow Abyss, Scorched and Bloody Red with a combined price of about 1,550g (and that’s using buy orders).

Yeah, that’s certainly an abomination all right, good work.

But that’s how about 50% of the players actually look like in-game. I’d say 10% wear vanilla gear because they are newer players leaving only 30% or less with anything even remotely fashionable and unique.

Maybe everyone would look good if everything in this game that is worth wearing didn’t cost 100’s or 1000’s of gold

Yeah, I think it may suck that something you want to wear costs over 500 gold, but it’s a different story when people wear things because they cost over 500 gold…and then there were wings…

The Greyhawk.9107:

Danikat.8537:

Just for fun I set myself the challenge of putting together GW2’s most prestigious costume – all the rarest, hardest to obtain skins and most expensive dyes together. Surely a thing of glory to behold!

My attempt is below and since a lot has changed since I last tried this in 2014 and I think there’s many more options now I’d love to hear your thoughts and maybe even see some alternate takes on it.

Featured in my attempt is:

• Celebration Hat (free give-away during the headstart weekend)
• Glorious Hero’s Shoulderguards (place 1st in a PvP tournament)
• Perfected Envoy Jerkin (legendary armour)
• Fire God’s Vambraces (30 Hall of Monuments points)
• Mistforged Triumphant Hero’s Legguards (1900 WvW rank + purchase earlier versions)
• Invisible Boots (about 2,000-3,000 gold)
• Eternity (combine both other legendary greatswords)
• Warbringer (legendary WvW backpack)

Dyes are Permafrost, Shadow Abyss, Scorched and Bloody Red with a combined price of about 1,550g (and that’s using buy orders).

Yeah, that’s certainly an abomination all right, good work.

But that’s how about 50% of the players actually look like in-game. I’d say 10% wear vanilla gear because they are newer players leaving only 30% or less with anything even remotely fashionable and unique.

Even though you’re max level, you can still go back to those earlier zones and learn the game, the mobs, the class, etc. Just go back and do hearts, find hero points, collect materials and ask for help with trying things like story and explorable dungeons. You can also get an accelerated version of the story so you can watch things unfold without having to reach certain level requirements.

As a Ranger, search all the nooks and crannies so you can find juvenile animals to tame as your pets. Also, don’t be shy about trying out the different weapons to get familiar with them and to pick the combo you enjoy playing the most.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Also, specializations cause you to ignore 66% of their traits by design. The whole point is to give options. It’s not that you’re ignoring a large part of the spec, it’s that you’re choosing which parts to focus on.

I’ll give an example.
~snip~

But your example is exactly what I mean when I say ignoring a large part of the spec. The part where you say “The other two tomes lack damage altogether, so unless the player in question had a specific need for some emergency healing or defensive buffs, they’d see no need to rely on them as an integral part of their build.”

Similar to Elementalist, they pay for having defensive and support portions of their profession baked in. If you want to focus on dps so mainly ride in air and fire, it’s fine, but none of that eliminates the fact that they still have water and earth when they need it thus a price must be paid regardless.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Now imagine you took away their second weapon set. Not only would you be nerfing their damage/utility, but you’d be giving them nothing of value in return.

Well, maybe nerfing their utility unless there is a strong build for Guardian aimed at swapping weapons a lot? I know I’m not well versed in Guardians, but I don’t think they have the equivalent to what Warriors, Thieves and Rangers have for weapon swapping which could directly nerf their damage. But I wouldn’t say the exchange would be offering nothing in return…if the Tomes were made better, I’d hope it would be an equivalent exchange even if the utility that was lost wasn’t directly compensated for.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I don’t see why, given this example, the concept of removing weapon swap being a bad idea is difficult to grasp. How much people want to use tomes should be optional, just like every other class mechanic in the game.

It’s a real problem in this day and age, where people blame others for not being able to comprehend or grasp another’s perspective while committing the same failure. I CAN see how taking weapon swap away could be bad…it’s not difficult to grasp. But you’re failing (or refusing to acknowledge) that it would also be bad if tomes were toned back (which they likely will, but to what extent has yet to be seen) to the point that “optional” won’t even be a selling point because they will be so clunky and mild, you’d be wasting your time using them (and I doubt tomes will ever be meta so…).

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

The analogy is accurate in the sense that in both cases, you’re forcing a tool that should be optional. But if you want another example, forcing Guardians to focus on tomes more exclusively would be akin to forcing reapers to focus on Death Shroud more exclusively by taking away their weapon swap as well.

or taking away their Death Shroud to focus more on support?

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Or, forcing Druids to focus more on Celestial Avatar. Or forcing Mesmers to go shatter builds. Or forcing rangers to go for pet builds by removing their weapon swap. So on and so forth.

The difference is magnitude. Celestial Avatar didn’t give them a 3rd pet + 2 beast skills for each of them. Shatters weren’t branched into a set of 3-4 shredding skills each. And I’m honestly still hoping they release a pet focused build for Ranger and if enough effort was made to make that viable and more engaging, it may well be worth giving up an alternate weapon for it.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Just because something is introduced as a class mechanic, that doesn’t mean you should be forced to play or build around it.

I think you should chill with the accusations though. I never said anything should be forced and I only support the removal of a weapon swap because I don’t want tomes to be watered down but rather improved in strength. I think even the OP just wants better tomes but doing so would likely push Firebrand into overpowered status.

Not only that but this internet insistence on black and white criticism gets old and easily counterable. For instance, you say “forced to play” when in reality, as you’ve already stated, there are already DPS specs for Guardian outside of Firebrand that doesn’t use tomes so the only way to force someone to play the new spec is to nerf every other spec into the ground or put a gun to your head. People wanted variety in the specs and yet they want them to all play the same?

Now then, I’m not asking people to be forced to use tomes, just incentivized to use tomes.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

And again, I’m not arguing against the idea of allowing for more tome focused builds, I even gave an alternative suggestion that it rather involves an optional trait. I only disagree with forcing it as a baseline mechanic for reasons I stated above. Tome focused builds can and should be a thing. But forcing them by removing weapon swap should definitely NOT be a thing. I also think anyone hoping for it should give up on the idea, because I simply cannot see the devs removing weapon swap for guardians. Everyone’s time would be better spent making realistic suggestions on how to improve tome builds, that don’t involve destroying other build potential.

And I didn’t disagree with your suggestion but even that could be a tipping point to make the build too strong (I would support your trait suggestion but it may provide too much flexibility to the spec).

I think a better arguing point for you to sway my point of view is to get me to believe tomes are far too weak for the paranoia I have for them being nerfed. I already know they’re clunky which will likely stop them from being any sort of threat in PvP and their support isn’t unique for raids, but I’m not a huge player of either of those modes.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

The spec doesn’t have to be right for everyone, but that doesn’t mean it has to be intentionally limited either. Dragon Hunter was not perfect as an elite spec either, but it at least offered a lot of build variety and synergy with core builds. You could easily use dragon hunter with many of the old utilities or weapons, without feeling limited.

What you’re suggesting is to intentionally force a tome build, when a lot of people might want condition builds without tomes, or want the ability to use tomes more sparingly while still focusing more on weapon skills. I don’t see how that’s a good idea.

Can guardian not make a decent condi build already without firebrand? And what use would taking a trait line be if you want to ignore a large part of the spec? (15 added skills!)

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

That is not quite accurate. Elite specs are designed to offer new play styles that the core class may not yet have access to, in order to increase diversity. They are not, however, designed to force said play styles exclusively. Firebrand in particular is an elite spec that offers both support based play styles, as well as condition based, but with that being said, the skills and traits it offers could also easily be adopted into core play styles with existing damage or support builds.

Firebrands should no more be forced to use tomes than Deadeyes should be forced to use rifles. Just because a spec gives us a tool, it doesn’t mean we have to use it or focus them.

Not an accurate analogy. Tomes aren’t really your weapon choice but rather your proffession mechanic. Deadeye can’t use steal or the normal steal abilities, he must use marks and malice. And swapping out steal+shadow step for basically a skill modifier on a single target is a big loss.

The main reason I’d support losing weapon swap in exchange for tomes is because i greatly like the look, feel and strength the current tomes have and i foresee them getting watered down a lot, not only in the initial balance pass but in overall functionality whereas, if something were given in exchange, we might see needed improvements to the tomes.

Call me paranoid, but deadeye and firebrand will be the 1st specs i play in PoF because i have a feeling they will soon feel very different in PvE.

It just occurred to me as I was re-reading my post but I actually think there are classes within GW2 along with professions. Professions are the actual professions you choose (Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist, etc) while classes are what your professions is likely built to do, which reflects what previous classes in other games do. So you have healers, bunkers, support, dps(power)/(condi)/(burst), walls/tanks, controler(CC) as your classes. Each class has different roles just like in other games but the professions can perform different class roles depending on build although not all professions can perform each role equally.

That being said, you could actually say that professions are just overarching themes made unique by their approach to combat, their lore and origin and their aesthetic loosely divided by armor weight. If that were the case, you could actually make a decent argument for a new professions IF you can make a theme that wouldn’t be very easily emulated on a current professions.

The Greyhawk.9107:

In regards to class vs profession, as an old gw1 player I did used to go with profession. However I tend not to as much, as class IS easier to write quickly, and that ‘profession’ can also refer to crafting professions (which gw1 didn’t have). Frankly its semantics and isn’t really worth the time.

True. It was more or less an in to start to discuss the subject (I don’t really care what people call them) and a chance to talk about what games call what is essentially the same thing. I personally am particular with such things (as well as acronyms…I dislike them so I tend to say out the acronym when I read or say them but don’t mind typing them) and since I tend to rotate around my MMOs, I do take the effort to keep them straight because it’s useful but also rather interesting.

FFXIV calls their ‘classes’ jobs and it is a staple of the series with its long history of games and mechanics and City of Heroes broke new grounds by calling its ‘classes’ archetypes which makes sense as Wolverine or Storm don’t have ‘classes’ but rather a method of combat and manifestation of power (they wouldn’t be a “regenerator” class or a “weather controlling” class but rather a “bruiser/scrapper” and a “controller” respectively). GW2 is rather odd naming its ‘classes’ professions and going so far as to name their buffs and debuffs boons and conditions. I’m sure there are other variations in names which is part of what draws my attention to various games (beyond the difference in gameplay).

Back on topic, I’d still like to hear a good solid concept for a new profession (crafting or combat) just to see if it could stand on its own uniqueness and also what elite specs such a profession could have to differentiate it from other profession specs.

Honestly wasn’t even interested in Firebrand and didnt get a chance to test it but after seening WP’s demo video, I’m definitely going to aim for a maximised tomes Firebrand. I hope they don’t get nerfed into uselessness and definitely feel they could sacrifice weapon swap for a slight buff to F3 (heard that one was lacking) and some improvements to mantras (a PBAoe mantra trait maybe?).

Ramoth.9064:

Classes sound better than professions

Subjective. Classes sounds outdated and usually in regards to rigid categories (e.g. scientific classifications) or a school (also rigid). Profession sounds…professional. Part of being a soldier is knowing it is not a job (another classification nomenclature used in another game) but a profession and as your profession, you are not only professional but an expert. And we are certainly soldiers in this game.

Objectively, it doesn’t matter if classes sounds better, thats not what they’re called. It be like if people playing City of Heroes called their power choices Classes or Jobs when, instead they were called Archetypes because that better fits the background of the game, which was based on comic book superheroes.

Correction, thet are called professions.

On topic, what profession could you add that wouldn’t or couldn’t fit the theme of a current profession. I’m not asking out of disagreement, but just trying to instigate discussion.

I recall seeing a topic asking which profession emulates a Bard archetype in gw2 and there were mixed answers. Could a Bard profession function as a possible addition theme wise? Maybe. But i could also see it as a secialization just as easily.

After trying out Soulbeast in the lobby for a while, I was consistently wondering exactly what I was suppose to do with the whole Beastmode and for me, the best use I had for it was swapping into beastmode after combat started, using my new beast skills, then swapping out or if my pet dies, I can either swap pets or shift into beastmode and out again to revive it.

Reading the various critiques of the spec, I kind of sort of agree that this seems a little lackluster, just going beastmode and using the skill then dropping it. I don’t mind it, but I can see others’ argument about it not being a very novel way to balance a spec…so why not change the effects of the beast mode via the Grandmaster traits to encompass multiple ways of playing?

Like the 1st can be a power-esque spec meant to stay in beastmode for long periods and using the beast skills grant a long lasting buff that grants you increased stats/effects and periods you’re not in beastmode, the buff expires 75% faster so you want to jump out, swap pets and jump back in ASAP or you lose the buffs faster.

The 2nd can be a defensive “jump in, jump out” spec where you gain a % of your pets’ HP in barrier every few seconds for 8 seconds and if you get KO’ed while in beastmode, you are knocked out of BM and instead healed. This trait would also increase the cooldown on beastmode.

The 3rd would be a pet-centric version where it’s similar to the way it is now but when you come out of beastmode, the pet performs some kind of effect upon returning and is empowered for an inverse time for how long you were in beastmode. This would be limited by an internal cooldown.

Not sure if it’s been suggested, but I don’t particularly mind the issue with Unravel and full attunement swaps (it’s something that is sacrificed for the extra utility and skills of the spec), but I’d actually suggest a reversal of Unravel. Tapping unravel should just swap you into the primary attunement you’re in with the same effects of using the attunement swap for it.

Give Unravel a 1/4 sec cooldown and like 5 charges that recharge every 10sec and I feel that would be perfect.

ZhouX.8742:

Less visual = less tell , from a pvp perspective that is alot better … This is kind of what makes holosmith weaker , the tells on the attacks are way too giving so you know their combos.

As much as I’d like to have eye candy and flashy attacks and animations, they need to work on the functionality of Soulbeast because it is very buggy , clunky and to be honest with you I can’t even test the class because half of the important things don’t work properly.

I never considered that from a PvP point of view (although I’m primarily PvE). I can understand that, but what functionality improvements would you consider are needed?

While I can see the strength of subtlety, I don’t think it would hurt to add just a bit of visual flare to make the spec appeal…like leaving a afterimage trail as you move or leap of the pet you’re melded with or using a flash of the pet’s archetype as a medium to perform the skill…that and speed up the use of these skills…

Have to admit though, I am disappointed that you can’t use the pet’s primary skill in some fashion while melded, even if their affects didn’t apply to yourself (like the evade frames of the fire wyvern or the stealth of the jag…just have a manifestation of the jag striking the target, flashing out of stealth but immediately going back in…like a summon attack or something).

I also tried to see if the Elite Skill did anything special but it’s kind of just…“the enemy receives extra damage if you hit them”. I was thinking, “Oh, if I use a skill, it will apply the skill again?” but no, it just does some extra damage. Not very interesting…

Main problem I have with Soulbeast is the majority of the skills granted in Beastmode are very bland and boring without any cool looking visuals or varied animations. I wanted something that made me feel like I was in a Beast Mode or channeling the spirit of my pet or something.

All in all, the new pets are kind of ridiculous (in a good way) and the overall strength isn’t bad, but then I’m a core Ranger that hasn’t touched Druid yet and enjoy having my pet around.

Only had a chance to try Soulbeast and Deadeye and I enjoyed Deadeye a lot. Deadeye felt really different from Thief or Daredevil. Soulbeast felt…similar, to Ranger.

I want to say there is a real life relationship lesson to be learned here…

Linken.6345:

After what 3½ year of power or go home we still got 2 years of condi being good mate so its all fine and dandy.

And this is what people believe “equality” means.

Played a glass core power ranger for the beta and starting with good ol’ black jag and sand lion (when i found it); was ripping through those mobs pretty handily. In fact, I’ve been using a few power builds lately, mostly core (core mesmer, core ranger, core guardian, berserker war tho) and they are quite adaquate for just the PoF open world content.

I’d say any revive type skill. When it comes to revive skills tho, you have to know what situation is best for them and then actually have it equippec at the time which most of the time doesn’t line up.

Been playing my ranger of late and was playing in Auric Basin, stumbled across the champ arrowhead being duoed and one of them went down. As i ran up to them, i swapped my elite to spirit of nature and start casting it as i approached the downed. The other guy was rushing to help the downed too. Right as i got the spirit down and tried to dodge the cone, me and the 2nd guy go down (1st guy died from the cone) but i used the spirit renewal skill of the nature spirit which revived me and the 2nd guy.

perko.8309:

Choppy.4183:

Mikeskies.1536:

But you realize, they changed Berserkers Power to accommodate Spellbreaker, but then made it impossible for Spellbreaker and Berserker to maintain 3 stacks of Berserkrs Power. Cooldowns on burst skills make it impossible when the duration of berserkers power is only 10 seconds.

It remains to be seen, but I don’t think Spellbreaker will have much difficulty maintaining 3 stacks of BP due to the minor trait Attacker’s Insight. Especially so if Counters end up counting as a burst as far as BP, AH, and CI go.

Yes, Spellbreaker will have a much better time of it. Both the F1 burst and the F2 Counters count as bursts. You can see it on BogOtter’s video. It’s only Berserker spec that is left in the dust.

To achieve parity, I could definitely see Berserk mode F2 applying 2 stacks since once you use it, using the Primal Burst gives 1 stack and bottoms out your adrenaline. I could also see changes made to put more emphasis on Berserk Mode itself to hammer home its gimmick. Giving more bonuses while in Berserk mode (choosing which bonuses via the traits) seems like it’s the right thing to do to separate each spec.

allart.3746:

I think this might be an American problem. For people from other continents, 250 years is not that a long time, certainly not enough to completely change a place to the point it’s not recognizable anymore. Take a look at London’s maps from the 1700s.. ok it’s different, but there is no doubt it’s London: London bridge, Covent Garden, St’ Paul’s, the Tower of London are all there. https://laurenceworms.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/rocque-lettered.jpg

Environmental factors aside, London has been a city for how long? I’d assume a long time. From how people described GW1 area, it was pretty much just a “settlement”. Settlements don’t stay settlements for long. They are either abandoned or flourish and built upon.

One reason I like making Charr. They are extremely easy to name.

[Cool Name] [space] [Scary/Angry thing]+[Scary/Angry thing]

Substitute the scary/angry adjective with whatever general mood/motif that fits your character and PRESTO, you have a cool, unique and lore-fitting Charr character.

The people in here that are boasting about how easy the demo is and that it’s not hard enough…

….you do understand it’s a STORY mission, not a tier 4 fractal/raid, right? Last thing I want is a frustratingly annoying 1st mission that aggravates me more than just standard fare so I cann’t just enjoy and soak in the story and scene. The enemies pose a high threat to civilians which is the point. Unless you can save all those people from getting slammed, I don’t wanna hear how “easy” it was for you. You let people die!