Guild Wars 2

I feel sorry for which other class gets stuck with Mantras.

IF DH is a Guardian with a better Longbow and traps then us then Druid should be a Ranger with better Staff and Meditations then Guardians.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Current shouts are not good, Guard and S&R need a makeover, but Sic Em and PM are OK imo. I’ll be using “HaO”, “Sic Em”, “PM” (instead of SoS) and “RaO” on my bar quite often with Resounding Timbre (and Oakheart Salve) it will be a nice build imo.

HaO will be getting a 16s CD as well as 10s of Regen (another 1300 heal with no healing power) and 10s of Swiftness with Resounding Timbre, it doesn’t really need a condi clear, since you can use trooper runes for that if you really need it. Or use SoTF and TU. Look at the amount of runes with an effect on-heal, 16s CD is great for those.

Sic Em needs all its little bugs and quirks worked out of it before it can be classed as OK. Then maybe include a damge buff to Ranger to actually be good.

I’d say I told you so about Mesmer/Chrono but you know who will burst in and start harrasing me. Instead I will leave him to blindly defend this while arguing with you guys.

Spoilers: Anet cares more about Heavy armour classes then Mesmer.

Tasao.4623:

Mesmer takes twice the skill to play for half the result, compared to other classes.

Pretty much my problem with the redesign of the Mesmer traits in a nut shell, they keep talking about how they want Mesmer to be a high skill class but the end results of this high skill play doesn’t relly match up to what the other classes do.

tetrodoxin.2134:

Seeing that Mesmers get wells and Guardians are getting traps… what if Druids will get Mantras?

Oh God I hope not.

They couldn’t even make it look interesting through editing. I almost feel sorry for Guards.

The class specific stats from the trait lines are being made so half the stats is baseline and the other half you get from a trait in the traitline it was originally. E.g. Mesmer shatters cd are being reduced by 15% and a minor trait in illusions gives the other 15%.

For some reason though the trait that gives the rest of the pet stat increase is an adept trait in Nature Magic.

mistsim.2748:

the animation fix was a fix.

Still beleiving the animation fix line after they admitted it was a nerf.

I’m hoping it at least goes back to 1200 range. Also a revert on the ‘animation fix’ would be nice.

Justine.6351:

;-)
https://youtu.be/_Nd-5b1tsz0

Never saw it wielded, thats amazing. Definetly going to get it when it ends up in the game.

Fay.2357:

Allow me to quote myself.

Fay.2357:

Let’s start with interrupt builds. Standard interrupt will probably be domination, dueling, and chaos. Chaos gives the strong CI/BI effects, along with good staff boosts. Dueling has the incredible pistol trait, along with standard DE for clone generation and other utility stuff. Domination has the amazing reworked CS, along with the power block + upgraded halting strike trait. This a really well-working, strong build. Now, to take chrono, you’d have to sacrifice some of that. You could…but it would be a significant sacrifice. From what we know of chrono, some stuff is comparable to stuff from other traitlines. This makes that sacrifice a viable option, but absolutely not the single best one.

Alright, now lets do power shatter builds. Power shatter is domination, dueling, and illusions. You’d have to sacrifice one for chrono. Domination has incredible damgae amp. Dueling has DE. Illusions has the powerful shatter cooldowns + shatter boosting traits. Chrono might be worth dropping one of those for…but it’ll be a big sacrifice. One that some people might take, but is definitely not the single best choice.

Now lets look at condie shatter. Condie shatter is generally going to be dueling, chaos, and illusions. This is a really strong set, with dueling providing conditions on crit plus DE, chaos giving staff traits and PU, and illusions providing Maim. One of these must be sacrificed for chrono. Again, maybe you could sacrifice chaos, maybe dueling…but it’s a hard choice. One that some people might take, but definitely not the single best choice.

I could do this for phantasm builds, mantra builds, literally any standard build archetype….I could do this same analysis for.

Conclusion
Chrono is an interesting specialization, has some strong utilities, useful traits…and is absolutely not going to be the only option.

Is it weird that I would rather go inspiration over chaos in condie shatter?

Xaylin.1860:

Levetty.1279:

Shame we didn’t get to see Well of Clamity, would be nice to know what kind of conditions it afflicts. Hopefully it isn’t an ethereal field either but I am 101% positive it is.

Here you go.

Thanks

ethereal

Cripple and weakness though is nice.

I like that staff that was datamined ages ago and people now think might be the next legendary. Can’t find the pic again but its like a wooden branch with a raven sat in the branches.

I like Mistforged Hero but if I make a Revenant will be using it on that.

Will have to look at more of them to see if there is any others I like.

Shame we didn’t get to see Well of Clamity, would be nice to know what kind of conditions it afflicts. Hopefully it isn’t an ethereal field either but I am 101% positive it is.

Reminder that Engineers gets a F5 added to their base class and then a 2hander for the specilisation.

Reminder that they are already talking about increasing cooldowns to blance out alacrity.

keenlam.4753:

Aw, well skills don’t have any condition removal baseline?
I really want to spec Dueling/Chaos/Chrono as a Condi spec.
Hopefully Chrono trait provide some options to cleanse conditions (that as good as Inspiration line).

Yeah thats my worry as well. Between condi clear, stun breaker and signit of inspiration for open world/WvW we are going to have trouble fitting these wells on our bar.

Picked up Torment and Chaos (and Chaos Sword) for cheapish, I also like the Balthazar sheild for its smaller size but not sure if I am going to pick it up. Mistforged Hero is pretty good as is Flameseeker but their are other legendaries I like better.

In short I can’t choose and will probably end up using a lot of transmute charges.

Shield 5 is an absorb not a reflect

Wish they showed all the traits but I am liking that clone and Phantasm one.

Its like a different guy worked on the core and Chrono specs.

Feels great being a list of people who gets to say I told you so.

I mean the blog did specifically say that they designed this without a weapon in mind and at first were going with a 2h.

Becoming a God of Time is confusing at first. You will adjust.

I’m just having lots of fun imagining using the well that resets people back a second to mess about with zergs.

That actually sounds pretty good, should allow much more interesting builds and tactics then the rather lack luster core spec changes. Glad I managed to pick up a torment sheild for relativly cheapish the other day.

Can’t wait to see the traits and skill info tomorrow, hopefully it matches up to this info. Hope at least one of our wells has pretty decent damage on it too.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Gotejjeken.1267

:…Pets having separate scaling…seriously? It’s one thing to make a pet based more into power or condition, but utilizing my pet should not be a hindrance. Especially with the number of ‘on bleed’ traits going around for pets…using those is a bad, bad idea.

Pets having separate stats to the ranger is the best idea they had with pets by far. The only issue is that none of them have condition damage as base.

Pretty much what I was going to say.

Its becoming increasingly clear some people here only want a hugbox with no disenting thought.

We havn’t even got the buff and people are already calling Mesmer OP.

I like that Mimic idea.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Again, Poison applied by Poison Master is scaled from the players Condition Damage and not the Pets.

Thats good to know.

They listened with signit of inspiration, IP, the people asking for more interupts and confusion changes.

They completly ignored us on concerns with PvE and WvW and how the mechanic performs there, how we are hunted out of PvP by theives and problems with weapon variety.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

No matter what anyone else says, no matter what positive spin people try to put on it, Thieves are getting even stronger and we will still have no way to deal with them. Short of receiving active stealth-canceling abilities, Mesmer is and will remain a “PvP-centric” profession that can’t PvP because we are effectively deleted from the game by another profession.

Thank you.

There is a difference between lockdown and interupt.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Hell.. Are we even in a bad place in PvE? (I mean like Necro bad)

Yes. Pretty much every attack from a boss is an aoe so are damage is destroyed making it pretty hard to keep consistand damage in dungeons and meaning we are just auto attacking with GS agaisnt world bosses. When we actually have 3 phantasms up our DPS doesn’t match the other classes DPS who don’t have to set up to reach their max petential (that includes Necros, who can make high dungeon dps builds but are let down by their lack of group support). Reflects are reason we are taken in dungeons even though our dps is sub par but the changes have taken away our damage buff from mantras which greatly increased our feedback damage without really giving anything in return amd I doubt the inbuilt phantasmal Strength will increase the reflect damage from iWarden like it currently does as a trait.

Open world PvE the problem is just how our mechanic is focused on 1v1 fights and mobs die so fast our illusions can barely do anything. Some buffs to GS they have already done and IP help with this but what we really need are some aoe outside of illusions, which maybe Chrono will give but I still think it will be more of a control spec. That and movement speed but they seem to finally be fixing that.

The problem with the changes is how they all focus on shatter and interupt. Illusions, Duelling and Dom will probably be the lines you want to go down for PvE as they have minors, adepts and Masters that will increase your damage but provide no GMs to support the kind of play style needed in PvE. Greatsword training is the closest buts its a ranged weapon.

An idea I have been toying with is take Mistrust and combine it with blinding befudlement. Then in the empty slot put in a trait that makes it so when you shatter you don’t shatter your phantasms or maybe any illusions at all so basically you just get the shatter effect on you. The purpose of that would be so Pve mesmers can get access to a bunch of the on shatter traits to provide interesting options with their builds but without having to give up their dps to use their mechanic.

Now I know this trait is weird and it would be the only trait in the game whose purpose is to actually make one of your skills worse but i think it could be interesting.

Vieux P.1238:

Levetty.1279:

I thought it was swiftness and the 1 random boon that it already gives?

Nope.. Check it.. it’s at 3:06:43seconds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPqYpcteqac

Sounds like it could be taken either way.

If it is just one then my vote goes to fury.

I thought it was swiftness and the 1 random boon that it already gives?

Fay.2357:

Levetty.1279:

StickerHappy.8052:

Levetty.1279:

Once again no actual arguments about how these people are wrong, just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying ‘nuh uh’. Its almost as if you don’t actually have an argument.

Dude no offense, your post history shows you complain a lot.

#realtalk

Once again you have not told me how I am wrong in what I am saying because you can’t.

No worries, I can tell you how wrong you are. Let me just quote myself here:

Fay.2357:

…And lastly, that all being said, I recognize that there’s simply several orders of magnitude too much information that we’ve been deluged with to armchair theorycraft our way out of this mess. I didn’t reach my level of understanding about this class by sitting on the forums and tearing apart new builds that people post, contrary to what some might believe. I reached my level of understanding by playing mesmer for thousands of hours, testing, trying, experimenting, and learning.

The amount of changes that we’ve just been shown are comparable to the amount of uncertainty that we approached this game with as new players years ago. Anyone that thinks to make definite proclamations about how things will or won’t play out post-expansion is simply wrong. Anyone that claims to know what’s going to happen, what’s going to be greatest and what’s going to be worst, is just spouting empty rhetoric. The only thing that can be said with absolute certainty right now is that nobody knows what’s going to happen. We’re going to have to get the changes, play the changes, and figure it out for ourselves.

Only after that will we be able to know.

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

Well your the most level headed person on this board and its nice to have an actaul conversation instead of other people who just throw about insults and refuse to acknowledge anything but praise to anet.

I think your over stating things slightly though. While the mass amount of changes does throw everything up in the air, we do have a lot better idea of how the game plays now then we did then, we know how certain mechanics work in practice and we know what does well where. So I don’t think we are going in as blind as were back then.

And we can plainly see here that they have focused way too much on two narrow build types (interupt and shatter) that aren’t really suitable for every mode. On top of that power shatter will still most likely be chased out of PvP by theif and fishing for interupts will still be sub par to more general lockdowns that don’t rely on actual interupting.

I have a good feeling about maim shatter doing well but then we have things like (as you pointed out) ele’s diamond skin or the Rev elite that can constantly send condis back at you. That is one that we will have try out to see where it falls.

StickerHappy.8052:

Levetty.1279:

Once again no actual arguments about how these people are wrong, just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying ‘nuh uh’. Its almost as if you don’t actually have an argument.

Dude no offense, your post history shows you complain a lot.

#realtalk

Once again you have not told me how I am wrong in what I am saying because you can’t.

I have also made lots of positive comments on the Rangers board because those changes were actually good and varied.

Illusionary Inspiration does have a 45 sec cooldown.

Once again no actual arguments about how these people are wrong, just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying ‘nuh uh’. Its almost as if you don’t actually have an argument.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Somebody get these Mesmers a mop.

(And check Levettys blood pressure. All that salt is bad for the heart)

Keep insulting me and being petty. You have yet to point out how anything I have said is wrong.

Well Anet, you’ve killed build diversity, removed Mesmer from PvE, gave them the worst weapon in the game when they needed more main hand variety and pretty much proved me right with each new info that you don’t know what you are doing with the Mesmer. This is your last chance to save the Mesmer and explain why everything else is so lackluster.

Personally I prefer changing its name back to SoTF, moving it to where Nature’s Vengeance is, combining Nature’s wrath and bountiful hunter (since they feel too similar anyway) and moving Nature’s vengeance down to fill the hole, then make a new GM for wilderness survival.

Ramanthes.5916:

rchu.8945:

Weez.6315:

Kitta.3657:

Clone Death is the most passive gameplay and unskilled (imo). Robert’s arguments towards wanting mesmers to use their profession’s mechanic is on point. I disagree, it is a good thing to be getting rid of.

this

all u have to do with those kind of builds is summoning 3 illusions/clones go stealth and dodge a bit. The only good thing to have those as enemies is, you can just walk away and they cant pressure u at all

If turret engies can allow to play that way, why shouldnt Mesmers?

Because different professions are different? Engineers’ class mechanic isn’t shattering.

It doesn’t matter what the mechanic is, why is turret passive play alright but clone death isn’t?

Just a thought, the trait says it only increases your poison damage and the poison itself comes from pets who won’t get the benefit of the trait and has 0 condi damage base.

Its also competing with our two sources of serious condi remove, one of which is probably one of our best GMs.

I don’t feel like giving them my money after how awful the Mesmer changes are but if I ever do end up with the expansion I will be shelving my Mesmer for the Rev.

I’m curious what you think PU means.

People keep telling me I am wrong and only talking for myself but have yet to tell me how. How can we build outside of interrupt and shatter? How will an interrupt or burst builds help us in PvE or large scale WvW? Where are the build variety outside of shatter and interrupt? What have we got to stop thieves from keeping us out of pvp?

Many people outside of this board are coming to the same conclusions as me and its only this place (which has always been filled with people who think Mesmer was fine as its was phased out of all 3 game modes through nerfs to mesmer and buffs to other classes) that think what we are getting here matches the strength and variety the other classes are getting.

Being able to get vigor, a heal and condi remove all on one shatter is pretty good, as is getting access to them all while being able to still use IP.

Its minors point to it being a phantasm line while all the good traits are shatter and temporal enchanter is a joke.

Going through my post history just shows you have no argument and you take forums too seriously.

But no keep trying to insult me for pointing out the truth.