Rewards in this game are usually are pretty bad, the champion mobs in dungeon are just simply icing on the cake.
Mesmer definitely isn’t anywhere near the top as far as pve classes go. Warrior and ranger can solo open world the fastest and effecient. Thief and warrior are the top when it comes to dungeon solo. As far as dungeon groups go, mesmer is only wanted for the utilities it brings, they have the worst dps unless they have 3 phants out for an extended period of time, but lets not kid ourselves, that pretty much never happens.
hey guiz, non-zerk build is such hard mang, just watch this video
go to 30 minute to see the true beauty and mad skeelz of the non-zerk.
Also its hilarious that people think zerk and stack are the same thing, they are not. A full nomad party can stack and do the kitten you said they would do and still be just as effective, just slower.
Another thing is real speedrun group rarely stacks, in fact only the ill-informed pugs continue to stack in places that doesn’t need to be stacked.
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Its well established that meta in gaming has nothing to do with the actual definition. :P
In this environment, Full glass comps can still suffice and tanky people still require as much if not more active play to achieve their current objective.
And in this case full class comps would be the meta and all others wouldnt. So my original statement still stands.
You are more than welcome to provide a detailed analysis with proof that high glass setups are the most dominate in an organic environment.
Oh wait, you can’t.
I can prove to you otherwise.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-abjured-take-the-world-tournament-series-in-beijing-china/
go take a look at the setups everyone used.
I honestly wouldnt quote the spvp meta as healthy for the game at all. Celestial and bunker setup is about as cancer as it gets and it should stay away from any other game mode.
I am quite curious as to why you call zerk, a face roll armor?…if anything any gear that makes you noticeably more tanky through passive stats is more facerollish than zerk. A valkyrie thief for instance can make alot more mistakes in a dungeon than a zerk thief
The basis beyond zerker meta is that while indeed, it doesn’t allow you to make as much mistakes as tanky builds, it ends fights so fast that you don’t have time to make any. Lot of perfectly skilled speedrunners will kiss a floor in a pug run, because they depend on that speed, and are unable to function without it. Because their whole “skill” is tied to an execution of a single meta strategy.
Many speedrunners can adapt quite well and in fact, carry pugs group daily even if they all wipe. I am sure there are some people that fits the description you are referring to but those are the unskilled players and has nothing to do with zerk.
@shadelong: You should leave AC or COF for once and find out that zerk burning down boss before they could react while stacking is a myth. Also, all those fights can be done equally easy wearing PVT other gear. The fact that you think stacking automatically makes you immune to damage and trivialize fights also further proves that all you do is easy dungeons.
Do i need to link people the sentinel warrior facetank soloing lupi while not giving a rats kitten.. compared that to a zerk warrior who has to time and manage all his blocks and dodges.
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The zerk speed clearers don’t want to play with those people, and that’s fine, but stop ridiculing them for being different. You don’t know a kitten thing about them!
I know that their ceiling is double digit percentage points lower than that of a zerker.
While most of us are aware of the imperfect correlation between “potential” and “reality”, the double digit percentage ceiling gap is indeed a reality and means a non-zerker has to play that much better to even catch up.
Another brutally honest truth: playing zerker/non-zerker is a choice (as opposed to a skill requirement), and choices have consequences. It’s up to you whether you take “sub-optimal” (in the context of ceiling/potential) as objective truth or subjective ridicule.
PS: You’ll only ever hear this word from me if you try to offer suboptimal advice to someone asking for help in map chat. But, if you do talk about how your tanking/healing/roleplaying setup is somehow optimal, you will no longer be entitled to my silence.
Never claimed to be optimal. Just different, which is a perfectly valid choice to make.
My point still stands. Just because they opt to run Valk over Zerk (for example) doesn’t make them a “bad” or skill-less players. Yes, they do less damage. Yes, they are not running the most efficient, face roll armor available. That still does not make them wrong. It does not make them bad ( although there are those that legitimately are). Which was the whole topic of the original conversation.
Not whether they were right or wrong for trying to join a zerk speed clear that is clearly called out as one. Not whether they do more or less damage. Not whether its optimal or not.
Assuming people are “bad” players just because they don’t run zerk gear is the same as assuming that the black man you pass on the street is absolutely going to mug you. It’s not necessarily true. That is the whole point of this conversation.
I am quite curious as to why you call zerk, a face roll armor?…if anything any gear that makes you noticeably more tanky through passive stats is more facerollish than zerk. A valkyrie thief for instance can make alot more mistakes in a dungeon than a zerk thief, evident in one of my cm runs where a valk thief facetanked a rocket turret without being downed while a zerk thief would be instantly in down state. The same pretty much goes for any fights where their are big hits involved.
S/P with 5/6/0/0/3 and spam pistolwhip.
So many trolls here. Can we get this thread closed please?
Since when has fun = bad? Get this straight. You who want zerk do not have fun. You play so that you can eat the carrot at the end of the stick, but you aren’t having fun. I would take slowing a group down by 5 minutes every single time if it meant that I spent that entire dungeon having fun. I could make the dungeon shorter, but then I’d be bored the entire time I was playing. In the end stupid reasoning is stupid. I don’t play games to prove that I’m better at spending more time in a game than others but instead want to have fun. Variety is the spice of life. Down with zerker. blah blah blah
rofl, another so called anti meta person thinking there is only one way to have fun.
I find it fun to improve and get things done effeciently, this goes for pretty much every game i play. But according to you, i am not having fun. Its people like you that are worse than the scumbag elitest that i have also encountered in my time.
Nope its not, forgettable characters and terrible dialogue as always. Trahearne is in it but he doesn’t play a huge part and thank god for that. There are some nice mechanics here and there though.
don’t speak for everyone ty, expansion would totally satisfy me assuming they actually put some effort into it unlike the living story and other updates lately.
Just checked lfgs for AC. People are enforcing triple warrior groups.
This meta has to end.
Triple and not five warriors?.. pff casuals.
i do every piece of content in this game and i spit fire at any1 asking if we are zerkers and i find i attract the people who feel the same way, just stand up for what you want in life
and the zerk players stand up for what they want as well. Its thinking like that is how wars and genocide all starts
“Weasel out fix” : make a set of zerker armor and trinkets, keep that in your inventory and link it to your pick up team when they gear check. Keep on rolling with your own stuff. They’ll never know the difference and one day you might even find a use for the zerker stuff.
the people who doesn’t know the dungeon encounter well enough won’t tell the difference. If i post a zerk only group and i see you facetank a rocket turret as a thief and not be downed instantly in cm, i will know you aren’t in zerk and boot you right at the final boss for wasting our time.
If you see him facetank the turret I’d hope you’d want to get rid of him either way. This is what I’m saying :p
Edit:
It makes me think of a thief I was doing the Mai Fractal with. Considering how quickly he went down as he frotted her, I totally believe he was in zerker. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t a weasted slot though.
Its difficult to filter out players who are going to be a liability until you are actually doing the encounter. Still, I would rather prefer a useless zerker player than a useless “insert random build” player because at least it tells me he wants to contribute as much as he can to the party even if he does not have the experience or whatever.
I don’t hate people who use other builds other than zerk, there is actually a time and a place for everything that is not zerk. a cleric guardian or cele ele can be extremely helpful in high level fractals. What i dislike is people who wants to run any sort of build for any encounter without actually thinking whether the build is any good for said encounters. They are are usually the type of people that won’t bother adapting either via traits or weapons. That goes for alot of zerker players as well but its even more obvious with the “play how i want” crowd. Can’t expect too much from pugs tho so to ensure that the runs aren’t too disastrous when i do want to pug (which is rarely now) its good to set a simple standard of zerk at least.
“Weasel out fix” : make a set of zerker armor and trinkets, keep that in your inventory and link it to your pick up team when they gear check. Keep on rolling with your own stuff. They’ll never know the difference and one day you might even find a use for the zerker stuff.
the people who doesn’t know the dungeon encounter well enough won’t tell the difference. If i post a zerk only group and i see you facetank a rocket turret as a thief and not be downed instantly in cm, i will know you aren’t in zerk and boot you right at the final boss for wasting our time.
Boosting passive mitigation = bad idea. It’s already fairly terrible – they should do the exact opposite. They should revamp weapon skills to allow for more blinds/aegis/evades etc. They should make sure the mobs can’t turn themselves around instantly. They should make sure the mobs are slow attackers.
You want to do everything to enhance playing the right way – and do everything you can to bury WoW style – passive spreadsheet oriented gaming. This is why people like shooters – its about the action – not about the grinding to achieve gear superiority or the 5 minutes you spend ‘planning’ your build.
All boosting the passive stats does is allow players to ignore in game mechanics. The zerker elitists are a force for good encouraging the players to play the way the game was meant to be played. Arenanet WANTS you to learn to dodge the wind walls. They WANT you to learn to hit aegis on your guardian right before Lupicus kicks the rogue. What they DON’T want for you is to face tank and roll kitten.
They make this exceedingly clear. Look at the wicked Rodeo and dodgy achievements from the living story. They want you to learn how to play the right way. How friggin boring would those be if you just face-rolled it.
There is ZERO wrong with the zerker meta. The really problem is the rest of the combat system in combination with encounter design. Fields and Boons and utilities only cover a small area and thus it pays off to stack. You stack together you can leverage fields/boons/reflects for extra damage/utility for the entire party.
Arenanet didn’t quite think that stuff through in PvE. It’s pretty obvious giving people powerful boons, fields and reflects is going to make people want to stack. Zerker stuff in PvE is just the intelligent way to deal with content.
They need to find a way to prevent stacking that does not ruin player synergy in PvE. They have not done this. Hate all you want but stacking might/stealth/timing reflects/using blinds etc takes a lot more teamwork they letting guys gear up and face tank hard stuff down.
There’s plenty wrong with zerk meta… and with active defense measures in general. passive and active defense should scale according to your build. zerk aegis should negate significantly less damage than knights; zerk retaliation should hit harder than nomad; giver’s (weapon)/sinister blind should last longer and block greater number of attacks/mitigate damage than assassin. Combat can have so many more dimensions by tying all effects to attributes i.e. blind from sinister converts greater # hits to glancing/missed blows with reduced duration or from giver to stay on mobs longer but less converted blows. Have attribute types specialize in certain boon/condition type i.e. tie vitality to endurance and toughness to aegis and zerk to retaliation & so on.
there should be greater risk and greater reward for choosing to max a specific attribute: zerk should hit harder but heal for nearly nothing… glass cannon needs to be actual glass. bunker should have lower offense with way higher passive defense. Should you wish to avoid such roles as dps, tank, heal, etc then you should be required to allot your trait points overall accordingly across all areas
zerk is already a high risk high reward build, as someone already posted a video of the lupicus solo where he would facetank everything with his tank warrior build, something a zerk can never achieve.
The suggestion you made would simply make those brainless build, even more brainless and also break pvp and wvw at the sametime. In fact some of the most low skill required build in those modes are the tanky specs, its a blessing that those cancers aren’t in pve as well.
Not trying to insult anyone but as I read this topic I see a lot of responses like “if they don’t die as fast as the group we know they are not wearing berserkers, and therefore will be kicked.” Like thats a bad thing, your punishing someone for not dying along with the group…? Some really weird backwards game playing that I don’t fully understand, and the more people try to rationalize it the more it seems like its toxic and needs to be changed.
Ok, some people like playing DPS, others like being more tanky, others like being more support. I would think the problem is that groups are being too exclusive now (pretty much for no reason, dungeons are all really easy) when there is really no need for it. How defensive the pro berserker meta people get is bizarre and again, probably why its going to get nerfed in the near future.
I think what they meant is they would see how much damage you take before you go down to know if you are zerk or not. People who really understand the dungeon and pay attention can see that the ele who facetanks two lupi kicks in a row to know that he isn’t zerk or that the thief who manage to take a rocket to the face and live in cm p3 isn’t a zerk etc.
zerker playstyle is lazy?… is this guy trolling or what?…either way i heard so many dumb things in thread, like how soloing dungeon in pvt is harder than zerk etc so i probably shouldn’t be too surprised to hear such nonsense, reading the replies from these “anti zerk” people is gonna give me ebola at some point.
Dungeon meta zerker stacking is lazy as kitten. In a way that’s fine, one of the ways players optimize is by making it as simple and low-risk as possible, but let’s not fool ourselves here.
The ‘zerker meta’ exists because it became clear that using the various tools it became very easy and low-error rate to stack abilities and burn, especially when the damage rate was much much higher. Regardless of builds, doing a proper stack is still the safest way to do most dungeon content, and it’s done in almost all dungeons — and it’s lazy.
To be clear it’s lazy because it doesn’t have to be very reactive. It replaces gameplay with planning and foreknowledge.
The developers are pretty clearly trying to make that lazy style of play unattractive.
I don’t want to be an ego stabber, but the ‘zerker meta’ is received wisdom of the ‘best way to play’. Being functional in it isn’t a good source of pride.
~~~
And honestly both pvp modes are case-in-point. When the AI-exploiting tactics aren’t reliable, berker gear and builds suffer heavily. You can’t be lazy there because players are better at reacting to and exploiting your patterns, and most of them aren’t going to run aroundt he corner into los and stand in your melee and AE’s.
stacking isn’t even an optimal strat 99% of the time, only pugs do it now. Also, stacking and zerk are two different things, you can stack in full nomad gear and achieve the same result, it just takes longer. Not only that, stacking doesn’t automatically make you immune to damage so again you have to time your defences unlike any other build.
PvE is all about planning and foreknowledge, thats the only “skill” to have regardless of builds. Only pvp can reactionary skill be a thing, and even then most popular pvp games, knowledge and planning still plays a huge part in how well things go.
zerker playstyle is lazy?… is this guy trolling or what?…either way i heard so many dumb things in thread, like how soloing dungeon in pvt is harder than zerk etc so i probably shouldn’t be too surprised to hear such nonsense, reading the replies from these “anti zerk” people is gonna give me ebola at some point.
So what i get from this thread is people want healing power and toughness to be viable so they can run their full cleric build and face tank mobs/bosses that could one shot a zerker right?.. why is this good for the game exactly?.. cleric guardian can already facetank fractal 50 mossman like nobodies business, or take 2-3 lupicus swipes to the face and live. This makes me think that all the people that opt for these “diverse” builds are just bad players.
there are already plenty of build diversity in trait/weapon/sigil choices as someone pointed out, in fact i would say the diversity in dungeon is probably one of the better things that anet done, while some encounter can definitely do some improvement especially to the stacking (even then speedrun groups hardly stack anymore due to fgs nerf so only bad pugs stack), people just choose not to use them, it does not mean game should cater around them.
When i play dota 2 and my favourate hero has only a handful of useful builds, do i go complaining to valve that my hero needs more build diversity?.. no, i adapt the meta build and i switch it up depending on the game. Thats basically the same thing with gw2.
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People have made good points as to why this episode is terrible:
-A cliffhanger ending
-Does not resolve the PREVIOUS CLIFFHANGER ENDING
-extremely short
-terrible dialogues (as with all the episodes)
-Completely forgettable characters
Those are the reasons i can think of but i am sure there are more. What i don’t understand is why people even play this game for its story, its as i said, a forgettable story. If you want to play a game that has good story with characters that you actually care about, there are single player rpg that does it 20 times better.
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Rework Defiant along with Toughness. Make it so that Toughness has thresholds at which CC skills remove more than 1 stack of Defiant, up to 5 stacks at 2500 Toughness. This will allow CC builds to be a real thing.
Why toughness? Why not boon duration? Or stun duration? Or… anything else? Why should stacking a defensive stat mean you can shave more defiant stacks?
Rework Endurance so that it regenerates about 50% slower by default. Rework Vitality so that it increases endurance regen by 50% at 2500 Vitality. This is aimed to make vitality more attractive in PvE and force pure zerkers to be a lot more careful about wasting a dodge. Even with Vigor, pure zerkers would still have a net gain of 50% faster regen.
The whole point of vitality is that it gives you more of a cushion for error. In essence, you are required to dodge less, or you can miss dodges and still survive. Why should making yourself not need to dodge as much … enable you to dodge more? I don’t get it.
Add more enemies that deal low damage, yet high speed attacks. The point is to counter them through protection and regeneration, not dodging. This will also allow Retaliation and Confusion to be more viable.
So you basically just make a berserker hammer guardian compulsory.
—
How long did you actually think these idea through?
Do you know how much 2500 toughness is? You can’t achieve it through berserker armor… You need almost entirely knights or some other primary toughness gear, plus food. I agree Toughness is an odd stat to chose here, but the idea is to make non-dps stats worth taking in PvE. A berserker hammer guardian would only take away 1 stack of Defiant. He would need to be a bunker guardian to be able to strip more than 1 stack at a time. Then his DPS would suffer, but he would be able to benefit the team in a new way by mitigating the boss’s damage through CC. In retrospect maybe 5 stacks per CC is too much. Maybe it should be 3.
Vitality is another story. It’s harder to balance that idea, but I couldn’t think of any other stat to tie to endurance regeneration. Right now dodging is OP because every build has the same access to it. Vigor is out of control. Just about every zerker build has 90% or more uptime on vigor. Builds that don’t can easily take some shared vigor from an ally. Maybe vitality isn’t the right answer, but I think endurance should be looked at. It should be harder for zerkers to just dodge all the time without someone in an actual non-zerker support build providing vigor or some other form of endurance boost.
About the defiance strip, a thief can easily strip off all the defiance in zerker, the most optimal way to go would still be zerk. In fact even in most pve like the new silverwaste, zerker is still optimal except against the husk, if people were to actually pay attention to the mob attacks and evade everything, it would still be faster to kill them.
The only solution to the problem currently is to just simply party with a friend who can second a kick. Be simple and precise, for instance, ask for wall of reflect or blast might, if they still continue not to do what their class is suppose to do, then simply just kick without arguing. Its faster and cleaner that way.
Condi builds aren’t weak at all in pve, some of the fastest dungeon solos has been done by condition builds.
There is a build and a place for everything, if anyone thinks he can just waltz into dungeon with one build, one set of weapon and not adapt to situation then he is simply a bad player.
also there are actually a decent amount of builds in dungeon which again, all depends on the situation. Take thief for example, in most circumstances, you would want to run 6/6/0/0/2 with d/d for maximum backstab dps. But some encounters may make it simply not viable to backstab constantly and/or lots of evades are needed and thus s/p with 5/6/0/0/3 would be better. Then there are situations where 3 points in acrobatic is better for certain bosses where a thief would run out of dodge easily. Thats not all, there are probably more i missed but either way, those people who say dungeon don’t have diverse builds obviously do not understand the encounters at all.
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Only bad pugs don’t stack in aetherpath. The fastest way to do aetherpath is to stack for most of the encounters except the boss fights.
Also most people would agree that most of the boss fight in that dungeon isn’t enjoyable, people want to use their skill sets and reading boss tells to make good plays, they don’t want forced “teamwork” like luring ooze around like a kitten or luring hologram in circles, that isn’t enjoyable at all.
A well designed dungeon would probably be arah and its iconic boss, lupicus.
Not going down the entire dungeon doesn’t really mean much if you don’t give us any other information. You could of been carried like crazy by other players and we wouldn’t know because you didn’t give enough information.
Also some people don’t have alot of time and usually hop on to do a quick run or two and don’t like taking 2x or 3x the amount of time for a dungeon especially when they advertise a zerk speedrun group.
Even in arah, parties advertised with “PX, exp zerk melee lupi” gets infested with players who clearly didn’t read the LFG and does not even fulfil half of that requirement.
There is also the factor that you could of been wearing tank gear and thus wasn’t contributing much to the party.
They should add a cap to the number of water bottles engineer carry in their hobosacks.
Too many splashes!!Yes that water splash is pretty crazy, its like the engineer is an ele… They are not ele’s, they don’t deserve to be able to cleanse conditions just as good as an ele, yet do crazy damage, knockbacks, and be able to handle crazy amounts of dps. Just add fear to there kitten nal and I wont know what else they could ask for.
Its hilarious that people think celestial rifle, a build that is weaker in 1v1 in almost all situation compared to a rabid p/p or p/s somehow needs a nerf. The build at best only gets 6-9 might compared to an ele or warrior who can get 25 easily. IP also hits for noodles and the entire build is extremely predictable having many counter plays.
If you ever lose to this build 1v1, you got outplayed really hard.
Ya… Speaking of which, I lost a 1v2, my team couldn’t take him 1v1, he pretty much went far and dominated.
Seems to be a trend huh? The far guy. Is it an engineer? Yes. Don’t even bother than, because he will 1v1 you 1v2 and 1v3 you. Overpowered freaks, needs some balancing.
If you are losing a 1v2 then its really personal skill issue at this point, for you and your partner. really not kidding, even the most OP spec in the game atm can’t 1v2 assuming equal skill level.
Its hilarious that people think celestial rifle, a build that is weaker in 1v1 in almost all situation compared to a rabid p/p or p/s somehow needs a nerf. The build at best only gets 6-9 might compared to an ele or warrior who can get 25 easily. IP also hits for noodles and the entire build is extremely predictable having many counter plays.
If you ever lose to this build 1v1, you got outplayed really hard.
This topic is worthless, we all know they are working on something, its the things that they are working on that is the problem. Instead of fixing real issue that kitten players off on a daily basis, they go around and start changing things that don’t need to be changed. Things like trait system, NPE, megaserver etc… that always end up having more negatives that outweighs the positive.
Its also cool and all that casual players get content for them that is the living story and am sure many of the dedicated and hardcore players are ok with you casuals getting what you want. What we are kittened off at tho is the lack of updates to the current existing hardcore content (or at least suppose to be) such as dungeons and fractals. Also still the lack of raid content.
I know some people are going to go along the line of “hur dur only 10% of the population does dungeon or will raid” that is completely irrelavant as not even 1% plays the cesspool of an spvp they call it, yet they still update it often. Meanwhile wvw is still neglated. This game was suppose to cater to all sorts of players yet veterans and other sorts of dedicated players are still left in the rut. It annoys me that casual people on the forum is against hardcore players getting any sort of content for them, its insulting even.
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Something big like more gem store sales, lovely
Such amazing design to the point where the game mode is almost dead, with only the same 100 people playing and pretending to be E-SPORTZZZZ
Regardless of negative or positive, the people who do not seek to maximize their contribution to the party are simply doing the party and themselves a disservice. While it would be nice to have diverse builds and all. You got to remember that this is an MMO, and like all MMO, even the popular ones like WoW, has only one optimal build and rotation for each class.
If people want to play a more supportive role then a ranger/mesmer/guardian would suit them because even if full zerk, their primary contribution is supporting their party with utilities.
Which leads to another thing that alot of players need to understand that gear doesn’t dictate your role in this game, its your class that does. If you run anything outside of zerk, you are basically telling people that you need to have more personal survival at the expense of your parties survival due to either lack of skill or lack of knowledge of the dungeon you are doing.
This game is already too lenient on bad players, these players end up developing bad habits because of it. They shouldn’t be reinforced positively or they will never improve.
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run pistol off hand on thief, put paralysation sigil on it and use headshot when lupi is about to aoe.
You can thank me later.
4 seconds later when he uses it again and wipes half of the group?
.
If thats the case then worth.
gw2 will never be esports. The very foundation of this games pvp is flawed. I can write a page describing why but i think people in the past have already stated reasons why.
run pistol off hand on thief, put paralysation sigil on it and use headshot when lupi is about to aoe.
You can thank me later.
For some reason i can’t make a thread so i am just going to post here saying. Why is light version of lumi glove buggy for human female?.. their are graphical glitch when its worn. I mean i know its probably intended and all since anet hates human female.
Quantity wise?.. no its not enough. Quality wise?.. also no, while there were some nice environment, the story writing is as terrible as always and the content is way too easy.
Also i don’t know why people thinks the dollar value is the same or less than expansion. People mostly care about the time it took for adding such content. 1 Year for such minuscule amount of content that can be finished in less than a day is pretty sad. Ofc the biggest update is always the gemstore and its “shinies” because thats where the real end game is right?
The last thing a necro needs is a buff in pvp. Its an l2p issue if you think necros are even remotely weak in there.
Dungeons able to be solo’d is a good thing, especially challenging ones. Because this means that despite how difficult the dungeon is, it is possible to carry bad players easily even if they are face planted on the floor constantly.
Path selling is also fine because people who have the skill and the patience to master a dungeon should be rewarded.
The only people that goes against path selling or dungeon soloing are either jelly haters and/or people that think their way of playing should be the only way (aka the selfish people).
Why should “all glass cannon” be the most efficient way to run every dungeon?
because
1. its the way with the highest risk involved
2. its the only way that makes full use of the combat system
3. its the only way that 100% depends on player skill, teamwork and nothing else.1. Almost true. When you kill enemies before they can even fire off their third attack (and a GC ele can even tank the first two), not so much. That’s pretty close to the lowest risk.
2. Well, no it doesn’t. The “combat system” involves a lot of parts that never see use in speedruns currently, such as conditions, boon removal, snares, etc.. Balanced groups actually make full use of the combat system.
3. Not so much “player skill” as “rotations”, but I will agree with teamwork. Enemies in dungeons are currently too simplistic for player skill to be a large factor. It relies more on the limitations of enemies rather than player skill.As an aside, has anyone done speedruns of Aetherpath? I’m curious about that one because it does feature more challenging enemies.
Anyone can pull off some wierd scenarios to make X look bad.
How about fighting lupicus zerker vs cleric or pvt gear?.. see which is higher risk? hint hint, its not the cleric or pvt gear
Its pretty obvious that during the so called 2 years of playtime, the OP has not done anything challenging with an organised group. An all zerk party isn’t all about dps. Simply wearing beserker gear doesn’t mean you aren’t a support and it also doesn’t mean you just sit there and auto attack. If any zerk person is able to sit in a stack and just auto attack and live, then he was obviously carried by his party.
There are plenty of supporting going on even in a full zerk party. A guardian will always put down hallowed ground to keep his party on his feet or wall of reflect to protect his party while amping dps from reflect. A thief will black powder/smoke screen mobs so they do not end up killing your party members. A ranger will provide frost spirit dps and spotter support while curing conditions with healing spring for you party… and the list goes on.
Its time the people start understanding that gear does not dictate your role, its your class mechanics that dictate your role. The sooner you understand this, the sooner you will wear berserker gear, learn dungeon/boss mechanics and walk away as a better player and self fulfilling as well in your “support” ideals.
Also another thing is people who run other specs get taught bad habits, especially people who use pvt/cleric gear in pve, they end up not learning mechanics and just tries to facetank everything. It is not an engaging show to see a person just facetank all the hits like a no brainer. Its much more entertaining to watch a zerker built person make good use of his active defenses to keep himself alive while trying to maintain dps.
(edited by Lifestealer.4910)
Thief isn’t just for stealth skipping though, they have the highest dps in the game and that is made even better with elementalist ice bow equipped. Thief are also much more reliable on applying stealth and can stealth a party though long distances. Engineer can provide a decent amount of stealth at the start of a trash skip but they cannot do it midway like a thief can.
Stealth yes. Highest DPS? No way.
They do have the highest dps actually. Against any boss that they can cnd backstab off or make use of elementalist icebow, they will output the greatest dps in a group.
I will first start by saying this: any elitism in a game is generally met with “I’ll do what I want.” With that said, Frost spirit is a pretty excellent skill to bring in dungeons and should generally see some action. Again, your skills are entirely up to you and you cannot expect somebody else to bend to your will simply because you want them to play your way (in PUGs of course). If it was a guild matter I would say it is a different story. Spotter is a decent skill and if it fits your build you should absolutely utilize it! That said, Ranger DPS is absolutely crushing in kitten kitten stack dungeons and should not be minimized because the ranger chose not to bring a skill YOU deem necessary.
Example: Warriors should bring banners in kitten kitten dungeons because of the obvious benefits to the entire team, but it is not absolutely necessary. If the Warrior chooses not to he is not an auto noob who should be shunned, his DPS should shine through with whatever other skills they brought to the fray.
Why even play in a party if you aren’t going to offer anything good to a party?.. just because its a pug doesn’t mean you should just be selfish and run 5 signet warrior or some other crap kitten. People always say play how you want yet you are running a dungeon with 4 other people for a common goal. There is no reason you should be dead weight and offer nothing to the team.
ITT: OP is QQing because he lost a match and rather than get better, he wants to nerf a class because he lost.
Must be an sPvP thread, because I see these sorts of complaints all the time due to sPvP.
literally nobody but the hordes of people hopping on the latest flavor of the month ranger train will tell you that ranger longbow is perfectly fine. that kind of damage from that range on that low of a cooldown isn’t healthy.
In 1v1/2v2/etc scenarios it’s fine because you usually have all of your tools available to you, but in almost any other situation ranger can snipe kills without worrying about any serious retaliation.
there is no other profession in the game that is able to invest entirely in offensive-only traitlines and walk away with a build that’s viable against human players.
You know what else is also unhealthy for the game?.. thieves completely neutering all zerker builds for the past 2 years. Now lb rangers have a chance against bad thieves and you complaining. Thieves still shut out lb rangers at top tier play but you obviously don’t know that because you are too busy relying on stealth as a crutch.
I can undestand the OP’s frustration, people aren’t lying when they say rangers attract some of the worst players known in video game. In open world pve, there will always be an lb ranger spamming knockbacks. In dungeon there will always be an lb camping ranger or a gs camping one using the wrong pet and utilities. Very rarely have i seen a ranger use a proper spec and actually contribute to party. There is like 1/10 of a chance to encounter a properly built ranger and that is a pretty generious number.
I have from time to time thought about just putting “no rangers” as my party description simply because i don’t want to deal with some ranger that is only there to leech and provide negative dps for our party (negative in the sense that they would ruin our stack and lower everyones dps while still doing trash dps themselves).
Shockers that you have to time your stealth properly and not spam it for once in your life.
Shockers you can’t press 2 to win MR. Longbow ranger i presume?
Firstly, i don’t play ranger. Secondly, even if pressing 2 to is win against thieves (its not), its about time thief stealth got more counters.
Don’t know why people say engi stacks might fast, the only might they get is from sigils and thats it.
Shockers that you have to time your stealth properly and not spam it for once in your life.
I have been getting crazy lag spikes whenever i am in a dungeon recently. My ping would stay as normal but it feels like i am playing with 900+ latency. I am still able to load live stream on source, play other games or anything not dungeon related in this game so i know it isn’t my internet.
You have boon strip and you kill cele ele. The build is good but not OP. You take out their might stack and its game over for cele ele.
So the only counter to this d/d celestial is to use an ability that hardly any class have?.. thats balance alright lmao
I have heard those type of arguments before in other competitive games, just bcuz something has a really situational counter doesn’t mean its “balanced”