Guild Wars 2

You don’t, they are the most OP class in the game right now and hopefully they get nerfs sooner or later.

Engi definitely most intensive, ele its just cycling through 1-5 in each attunement, its actually really easy to do well with elementalist unlike engineer where you have to quicky combo between kits while actively react to enemy. Ele can screw up alot more due to having more invuln/stunbreak/stability/sustain. Other classes are just lol, not even worth mentioning

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Lifestealer.4910:

Heres how to make necro balanced:

nerf nightmare runes
nerf reapers protection
nerf corrupt boons
nerf staff 5

that way they can’t just faceroll their keyboards and win all the time. Its still disgusting that when playing an engineer that they can auto win most of the time. Mesmers got what they wanted with the thief nerfs, now its our turn for the necro nerfs.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Balancing-and-Communication/first#post4424824

I want to nerf your cries, because they are biased and have no thought behind them whatsoever…

Can you do me a favour and list why these things are, to you, overpowered, why you think these skills exist and how you would change them?

If you cannot, I would persuade you to refrain yourself from screaming for nerfs, because this is what is literally destroy balancing… Besides, two can play this game, but I have no means to make claims of things being OP simply because I do not like them…

lol no thought?.. have you actually faced a necro as an engineer?.. you can ask any top engineer player, ANY of them and that will tell you the same thing, necro auto wins against engineer 99% of the time. How is that balanced?…the above things i listed gives them a massive advantage, i seriously do need to list why, it should be obvious as to why those things give them an advantage over an engineer.

So yeah i don’t give a kitten about that thread.

Heres how to make necro balanced:

nerf nightmare runes
nerf reapers protection
nerf corrupt boons
nerf staff 5

that way they can’t just faceroll their keyboards and win all the time. Its still disgusting that when playing an engineer that they can auto win most of the time. Mesmers got what they wanted with the thief nerfs, now its our turn for the necro nerfs.

Roe.3679:

Lifestealer.4910:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Carighan.6758:

Lifestealer.4910:

Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.

That button would be?

Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.

Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.

You say this but in reality the necro won’t die at all if you don’t apply enough pressure, if you just focus on applying 2 condi at a time, the necro is simply gonna just end up condi bombing you with their own condition which engineers again, cannot counter.

Its a lose either way, you hold out all your skills and necro end up crushing you because you do not pressure enough or you end up condi bombing him in which case you just end up getting yourself killed.

Necro also has more than one button to counter engi, Corrupt boon after engi reach 75% health and its usually auto win. signet of spite and/or some random fear proc on top of spamming all your marks and necro wins

Its really disgusting how such a class is still not nerfed. You can faceroll your keyboard as necro, make all the mistakes in the world, where as i have to play flawlessly the entire way through.

You can even ask vee wee #1 engineer and she would agree that necro needs nerf.

You could replace necro with “engi” and some of the necro skills with “turrets,” and your almost entirely recreate how people QQ about engineers.

I don’t see how thats relevant to what im discussing tho, if you want to complain about turret engineer and advocate for nerfs ( which i am all for btw) then go make another thread about it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Carighan.6758:

Lifestealer.4910:

Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.

That button would be?

Condition transfer after the engie is dumb enough to give necros a ton of ammo.

Condition engies can beat condition necros, but they have to not spike the conditions like they do against everyone else.

You say this but in reality the necro won’t die at all if you don’t apply enough pressure, if you just focus on applying 2 condi at a time, the necro is simply gonna just end up condi bombing you with their own condition which engineers again, cannot counter.

Its a lose either way, you hold out all your skills and necro end up crushing you because you do not pressure enough or you end up condi bombing him in which case you just end up getting yourself killed.

Necro also has more than one button to counter engi, Corrupt boon after engi reach 75% health and its usually auto win. signet of spite and/or some random fear proc on top of spamming all your marks and necro wins

Its really disgusting how such a class is still not nerfed. You can faceroll your keyboard as necro, make all the mistakes in the world, where as i have to play flawlessly the entire way through.

You can even ask vee wee #1 engineer and she would agree that necro needs nerf.

Necros are pretty OP, they can destroy engineers with one press of a button, its sad really.

Sizer.5632:

Unlike ele attunements kits dont have cooldowns (not saying they should), so its really just about developing the muscle memory to hit two buttons quickly to activate one skill. And if you dont get the hang of it after a few weeks then the class just isnt for you. Plus grenades take a lot of clicking but just because it gives you carpal tunnel syndrome doesnt make it challenging.

The typical grenadier/tool kit build in pvp is probably one of the easier builds to play right now (how incendiary powder didnt get nerfed when dhumfire did il never understand), though its definitely not the easiest.

It still way more challenging compared most of the builds of other classes. I know alot of people think spamming nades on point takes no skill and all but the fact is grenades are skill shots, and if you opponents are actively moving in and out of points, you will have to really aim your nades which ofc is fine by me but point is grenades takes more skill to use than people give it credit for.

I also don’t understand the hate for incendiary powder either as all classes have some sort of passive annoying traits that can totally undermine any sort of good plays. I can’t tell you how many a time ranger should of have died if it wasnt for his lucky immune procs or how a necromancer with reapers protection turn around a fight without doing anything. Just because engineer also has one does not make them any less skill required.

Assuming you take the Adrenal implant, the vigor on speed trait would it be possible to make a viable perma dodge engineer build?

Magnet need to stop making people desynch!.. far too many times i end up blowing off my cooldowns after a magnet only to have the person who i pull not be anywhere near me!.. this has caused me to lose countless fights!

Learning an engineer is like learning invoker in dota, it is totally worth it when you do because you feel like a god and you look pro for it because of the way you cycle through skills.

i also lol at the person who says engi isn’t high skill cap and is a bore class when he himself mains a ranger!…. if any class the most boring and low skill cap class, its rangers, even warriors require more skill than them.

I will say it again, less shadow art and more action if you are really bothered by it. Any thief with half a brain who gets revealed and doesn’t want to reset a fight can easily switch to shortbow and start using its evade as well as their own dodge roll to survive. If u r d/p thief u can blind and daze while still applying pressure without stealth, in fact thats how d/p is usually played when you are going aggro in pvp. Cleverly using your shadow step can also help you survive under engineer reveal and all you need to is pressure ranger to switch to gs and then start shadow stepping.

There are more people pvping on this section of the forums than the entire spvp population combined. Is anet going to turn this place into e-sports soon?

SpecterMAT.7306:

Engineers have access literally everything in this game.
And I never seen any telegraphed attacks from them at all. Everything happens just instantly.

I really want to see Anet do something about this profession because it’s really unfair to play against and unsatisfying to see a profession can get all this stuff for free.

This is clearly a get good issue if you think they have no telegraphed attack. Either that or your need to wear glasses. Grenades, magnet, pry bar, grenade barrage, jump shot, net shot, ANY BOMBS, static shot etc and the list goes on. The only thing that doesn’t really have a telegraph is overcharged shot but that is reasonable since the skill has major drawback to the engineer.

Engineers can’t have everything either so idk what you on about. If anything warriors and elementalist has everything, they literally fill in most of their weakness in one build, good luck trying to achieve that with any of the meta engi build.

Engineer
Guardian
Mesmer
Thief
Elementalist
Ranger
Warrior

Haven’t played necro so won’t comment.

wildfang.9670:

I think engies should get a small cd on their weapon kit skills. say something like 10 seconds. that’s about all that really bothers me with engi.

not sure if troll or srs..

Cynz.9437:

Lifestealer.4910:

Learn to stop relying on clutch like shadow art and actually start learning the game, you really think anet was gonna let u perma stealth with impunity inside enemy zerg and castles all the time?

and then you realize that main dmg for dagger builds comes from backstab which requires stealth….

imagine if thieves could actually steal weapon from enemies for 6 sec rendering enemy unable to use weapon skills for 6 sec… would you also say l2p?

the problem is not even SA, the problem is instant stackable revealed debuff that locks out defensive AND offensive aspect of the class….

The issue is whether you have SA or not, if you have 3 people jump you can still escape easily due to spammable stealth, now it simply makes it so you have to pay for it if you jump into 3 people just like all other classes.

Also only d/d thief relies on backstab and that build is pretty dead so it doesn’t really affect thieves. Since thiefs usually go d/p or s/d or p/d (if wvw)

Learn to stop relying on clutch like shadow art and actually start learning the game, you really think anet was gonna let u perma stealth with impunity inside enemy zerg and castles all the time?

Eurantien.4632:

Best AoE damage, best counter damage (because it can do damage while running away), best hp/s, AoE heal for team, AoE condi clear for team, way more skills = way more utility for every situation.

Engi is without a doubt the master class. It can does everything too well.

What is OP:
the hp/s
the aoe heals
the aoe nades dmg/condi dmg that work at ALL ranges
the fact they have like 29 skills while other classes have 17-19
no weapon swap cds
the best elite in the game (heals/dmg)
incendiary powder

So basically everything about engi is OP?..can’t say im surprised tho that a guy that plays power ranger in its current form tries to shift attention away from his own class onto other classes. its not fooling anyone tho

TheDevice.2751:

Lifestealer.4910:

Even if engi was OP, they still require more skill to play than all of the current and previous OP builds, so i am perfectly ok with this.

I love how more options turn into “more skill”. Thats total garbage. If you just have non-stop skills at your disposal and a oh-crap button for every single situation thinkable doesn’t mean you’re a good player because you actually did that skill at that time.

Having more options and an array of skills at your disposal is like saying “hey a helicopter is harder to fly than a paper plane because helicopters have more buttons.” Take the necromancer as the paper airplane and hop on to see how far you can fly… and how easy it is to do so.

Bad logic. Bad cover-up. Its just disingenuous and quite frankly gets old to people who see right through that crap.

Firstly it really shows that you do not play an engineer. A celestial engineer while strong actually has alot more weak match ups 1v1, the guy that said celestial engineer is the best meta 1v1 build currently makes me laugh considering a shatter mesmer totally kittens on that spec, where as a pure condi engineer would do ok against it.

Engineer has more offensive options but less defensive options, lack of real condi clear, no stability, one long cd stunbreak means that they get punished hard for any screw ups unlike a d/d ele who has multitude of sustain/stunbreak/blinks/blocks (if they decide to take it). A celestial engineer has to also get right up peoples face to do majority of their damage, with the top mentioned weakness, it makes it a high risk/ high reward build. The only thing that makes them more forgiving is that they are pretty durable, decent base stats but it is by no means warrior level of durability even if you factor their blocks.

The main reason you have seen a popularity in celestial engineer is due to the fact that condi build has been pushed out of meta due to the abundance of ele/guardians in teams making any real condi build completely pointless. A celestial build is obviously not as reliant on condi to do its damage but in exchange it actually has more weak match ups than a pure condi engineer. Thieves actually has a better chance against a rifle built engi compared to the other p/s or p/p builds due to the fact that the IP trait and weapon swap condi are much weaker (and celestial rifle does not use geomancy sigil) which is what gives them the upper hand usually. If you don’t believe me, you can ask sizer about it.

and engineer is a high skill cap class (if you don’t use turrets but i like to think thats a class of its own) and as a result it should yield good power (not raw power like a warrior) but more options. This is the logic that has been used in any competitive moba games as well. A good example is invoker from dota 2, a high skill cap hero with lots of ability and can fulfill multiple roles, he can roam, assassinate, escape fights, initiate and chain CC enemies, snipe people from across the map etc, and if played right, is literally a god that can do anything and everything, solo carrying games easily. This is how games should be balanced, not this low skill requirement high reward cancer builds like d/d ele or s/d thief.

I would also like to point out in my final statement that celestial engi actually abuses the might stack the least out of all the current meta celestial builds, the average might you would get is around 6 compared to an ele who can achieve 15+ easily.

Even if engi was OP, they still require more skill to play than all of the current and previous OP builds, so i am perfectly ok with this.

Play a thief with only a pistol off hand (no main hand weapon), lupi must also have 25 stacks of grubs. Who thinks they can do it? ;p

and not be at a disadvantage. pvp is dying because this change hasn’t happened.

Yes it sucks that your p/d 6 SA or any other SA thief build has a counter in wvw now but guess what?.. endure what all other class have to endure, like how a necro instant wins against condi engineer or that warrior automatically loses to condi mesmer. Also again, if u play spvp it would not affect you at all as nobody goes SA p/d thieves or other similar nonsense.

lol so with that logic if a skill with projectile did 999999 dmg in 1 second its balanced bcuz you can just evade/block/reflect/blind/gapclose and also there is no point blinding a rapid fire, just shows rangers main trying hard to think the current change isn’t OP.

DanSH.6143:

I’m all up for visual tells on skills, but you know what? This isn’t a ranger issue.
Go ahead and add animation to BPS, and while you’re at it, add animation to Steal, Judges Intetvention+Smite Condition, Fresh Air Lightning Strike, Doom, melee range Mind Wrack, and engi’s IP.
The only reason players are complaining about rangers is because of the amount of them. There were berly any good longbow rangera playing pvp, the only people who played it were bad pvp players since they didn’t understand the meta.
Strong pvp ranger players either used spirits, or a anothet class.

im perfectly fine if those skills also had visual tells but the reason rangers one stand out currently isn’t only because of the influx of rangers but also because its much more noticeable when you get nuked for 6k+ unlike if engi proc IP.

I am all for rapid fire being satisfying to use and all but the counterplay to this is extremely lacking due to the lack of visual tells, in fact rangers shortbow is in a similar boat but the only reason its acceptable is because it doesn’t have any crazy skills that do wtf damage. Now that lb can nuke people from 1500 units, its time to give rapid fire and point blank shot some real visual tells like the way you guys did with pin down.

Currently, outside of reflect, you have to random dodge and pray you dodged that PBS or else u would get nuked by rapid fire.

Only shadow art noobs have trouble against stealth counters. Anet is going in the right direction with this change and wants more thief to stop using shadow arts and start actually taking more risk and skill in fights.

Good thieves aren’t affected by this change as they don’t take shadow arts anyways. If you look at pvp, thieves do well, d/p or s/d without SA, as you always have secondary defenses and are not overly reliant on stealth.

Carighan.6758:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

While true, and something I’m fine with, you can’t go making something that a profession cannot do at all that important to the game. Making something important that everyone can do, but others can do better? Fine. That encourages diversity. Making something important that some professions simply cannot do? Not so much.

Interesting. Team Fortress II for example would like to disagree with you, having very valid hardcounters in it’s class-setup, leaving classes like the Heavy completely exposed to a Sniper at long range with no way to retaliate.

And? It balances fine.

Because it is not about making you able to handle everything.
Rather, the opposite is the intend. You’re support to have someone in your team to reflect enemy damage back. Cover you. You add your utility to cover their weakness in turn.

That’s more or less the core of class-/spec-based game design. It’s good they’re (at a glacial pace) pushing that more, making people more and more dependent on the team, not on themselves. It’s a MMORPG, the whole game is built upon the idea of multiplayer, on top of that the game heavily advertises massive-multiple player elements with its PvE and WvW.
On top of that, class-based design ideally uses this hard-wired reliance. More of it, please.

That is irrelevant as guild wars 2 class design was suppose to be that every class can do everything and are self reliant.

Classes you don’t enjoy fighting and classes you don’t like watching needs a different list for each other. For instance s/d thieves are annoying to fight and probably one of the build/class i least enjoy fighting yet watching how they play (especially the correct way) on stream or in duels is actually quite enjoyable because of how fast paced the fight is and how the s/d thieves does all the tricks like porting all over the place.

the 3 i least enjoy fighting are:

Turret engineer – Its a brainless spec and heavily relies on input on your part to counter this build, where as the guy who runs this build pretty much mashes his keys for a bit and then afk or spam auto attack. Fights are usually drawn out as well you have take your sweet time to take out their turrets and then you have to burn thru their extremely tank stats.

Elementalists – Especially the popular d/d one, another build where you have pay alot of attention and be on your toes at all times to beat which is usually fine by me, except that the person who this build can beat you just by mashing all his keys while drinking booze.

Mesmers – the clone and purple spam gives me a headache, and also because the typical shatter mesmer counters rifle engineer pretty hard.

Classes i least enjoy watching:

1) turret engineer – lays down turrets and then just spams hipshot, real boring to watch, i rather go watch some pve hero kill the same boss over and over then this piece of kitten

2) any rangers – it doesn’t matter which build ranger do, they much like turret engineer, spams 111111111 for the most part of the fight. Sure they sometimes might use another skill or two but its not frequent enough and fights are usually drawn out with rangers relying on passives.

3) Minionmancer – another build where you see the player pretty much do nothing and relies on passive AI to do all the work for them.

Ehecatl.9172:

Lifestealer.4910:

They actually have plenty of defence, the rangers, you have stealth from lb 3 and a knock back from lb4. Then you have the wolf/hound knock down and the fear or the spider immobolize and to top of it off a gs daze/stun and block as well as mobility from lightning reflex and gs 3. Ofc now you also have entangle to help you out. The class did not need a damage buff from mid max range, and you may not defeat someone with only 1 and 2 but you can get them low enuf that u can just faceroll with other skills.

EDIT: forgot to mention you have signet of stone now as well.

EDIT 2 : how is lb 4 knock not reliable? as far as knockbacks go this one has zero tells, the only other knockback that i can think of that has zero tells is the engineer rifle 4 but thats only bcuz of the drawback of the skill knocking engineer back as well.

A 3 second stealth isn’t much of a defense. And like the knockback it can be dodged/blocked. It’s also REALLY easy to throw off a ranger’s targeting by simply walking around them, which can cause the attacks to just miss. Line of sight also blocks both, and a reflect can actually make you knock yourself back. I’ve seen quite a few snipers in Skyhammer kill themselves that way. Hilarious stuff.

The wolf’s knock down is completely out of the ranger’s control and is random. It’s also avoidable by literally walking away from the pet as it’s doing it’s wind up. The howl and immobilize work, true, but that’s a part of the ranger’s class mechanic. The one that most have considered useless and detrimental to the class for the last two years. I’m glad it’s finally become something people need to worry about.

The greatsword skills are NOT on the longbow. You have to weapon swap for them, which means your longbow burst is unavailable until the swap cooldown goes away. Your entire build is basically unusable until you can swap back, and unless you can get enough distance it’ll be too dangerous to switch back. This is where you crush the ranger with slows to counter Swoop and just take the ranger to pound town.

I’ve not seen a single longbow ranger running with Lightning Reflexes yet. Probably because they need a utility slot for their burst to hit effectively and don’t want to pass up Signet of Stone and Signet of the Hunt. Of course now you’re bringing in utility skills which again are not attached to the longbow that I was discussing when specifying weapons with the bursts on them.

Also, Signet of Stone functions just like Endure Pain on a longer cooldown. Rangers have pretty lousy condition cleansing, and the sniper build especially has an utter lack of good condition cleanses outside the heal. Even a few conditions on a sniper ranger is a pretty big threat.

Interesting how the discussion shifted from the ranger using auto attack and hitting 2 for instant wins to the ranger having to chain their pet’s crowd controls together, utilize their second weapon to it’s full potential for defense, blow utilities to sustain themselves, and use an elite skill to hold the target in place.

The point i was making is that your rangers have great defense especially if used correctly, yet your class can still dish out ridiculous damage from 1500 range while a shatter mesmer cannot do. You say shatter mesmer have plenty of defence but this is wrong, if it had lots of defensive capability then people wouldn’t say this spec is one of the hardest and unforgiving spec to play in pvp. Why despite this, they have to get right up in peoples faces in full light armor to dish out as much damage as a ranger who does it in 1500 range?.. if landing the pet knock down was tricky bcuz of kittenty AI then maybe that was the thing to fix, not to buff lb ranger dmg to ridiculous proportion.

By the time you hear the super fast pew pew pew sound you would of have taken more than half the rapid fire damage.

Ehecatl.9172:

Lifestealer.4910:

The changes show that anet still don’t know how to balance classes based on risk vs reward. Why is it that say for example a shatter mesmer have to get up close and set up a perfect shatter just to do the same amount of damage compared to an lb ranger that sits at 1500 range and just press 11111 and the 2’s whenever?.. if you wanted to buff rangers (especially lb ones), the the trick was to buff their ability to make plays during a risky situation either thru increase survival or CC up close (which they did with entangle buff), it was not to buff their dps at mid/max range so they can faceroll people all day.

A mesmer has much greater access to stealth, plenty of evades, teleports, and the benefit of clones that can throw the enemy off for a split second. A longbow ranger has none of that. They might have some evades and blocks if they take a greatsword or sword/dagger for a secondary weapon, but they don’t have defensive tools while using the weapon they invested 7 trait points into maximizing.

That lack of defense with their burst weapon is the cost they pay for having excellent range. While other professions have mobility, blocks, evades, and other defensive abilities latched onto their burst weapon a ranger has to make do with a stealth that, honestly, isn’t very reliable and a single knock back. It’s also the only viable burst in the game that is completely hard countered by a mechanic that can turn all the damage back on the user.

If a ranger defeats you by literally just spamming auto attack and hitting 2 when off cool down then you deserved that defeat. Now if you’re losing to a ranger who works with their pet to crowd control you and force you out from behind cover and intelligently times their Rapid Fire burst with their hound’s knockdown or spider’s immobilize, that’s a different story.

They actually have plenty of defence, the rangers, you have stealth from lb 3 and a knock back from lb4. Then you have the wolf/hound knock down and the fear or the spider immobolize and to top of it off a gs daze/stun and block as well as mobility from lightning reflex and gs 3. Ofc now you also have entangle to help you out. The class did not need a damage buff from mid max range, and you may not defeat someone with only 1 and 2 but you can get them low enuf that u can just faceroll with other skills.

EDIT: forgot to mention you have signet of stone now as well.

EDIT 2 : how is lb 4 knock not reliable? as far as knockbacks go this one has zero tells, the only other knockback that i can think of that has zero tells is the engineer rifle 4 but thats only bcuz of the drawback of the skill knocking engineer back as well.

The changes show that anet still don’t know how to balance classes based on risk vs reward. Why is it that say for example a shatter mesmer have to get up close and set up a perfect shatter just to do the same amount of damage compared to an lb ranger that sits at 1500 range and just press 11111 and the 2’s whenever?.. if you wanted to buff rangers (especially lb ones), the the trick was to buff their ability to make plays during a risky situation either thru increase survival or CC up close (which they did with entangle buff), it was not to buff their dps at mid/max range so they can faceroll people all day. changes that could support non facerolling playstyle includes something like make rapid fire shoots faster to targets that are closer to u or make it so if you fire arrows closer to your target, you heal allies (these are just random ideas i put together for the theory but u shud get the point).

But honestly at this point it doesn’t really matter, rangers are either gonna be full faceroll or extremely weak, there is no middle ground as the class promotes extremely passive and easy playstyle no matter the build. The class needs a major rework.

The balance team never pinpoin exactly whats wrong with classes, for example rangers issue was never damage but survival, instead they buffed the dmg to ridiculous level where they are 2 shotting people from 1500 units now.

Thief should get revealed after failing a stealth attack, you kitten up?.. you should be punished for it. Right now everyone and their mother runs p/d condi thief in wvw because its so forgiving, you can keep failing stealth attacks, you can also get out of any situation. This isn’t even a warrior vs thief debate as both classes are highly forgiving, it isn’t one or the other.

Dice Dragon.4326:

Bhawb.7408:

Spirit Weapons are some of the best designed AI in the game, requiring actual input to be successful. Just because you roll your face on a build without AI doesn’t mean you are playing more actively than someone rolling their face on an AI build. The most eSports game in the entire world – League of Legends – has a massive amount of PvE in its game mode, because (shock) whenever you make a gamemode more complex than DM you have some non-player mechanic you have to fight against.

to expand on this

Yorick, Heimer, Zyra, Malz all have AI that cant be microed and all are average power level. And none of them are strong because of the AI either. Heimer is a noob trap, he has 3 turrets and if you walk into him you are a kitten and deserve to die, he cant chase you and has no mobility. All he is good at is pve pushing.

Like I hate seeing the fricken “omfg no more ai!” complaints. It just is screaming “Scrub alert” to me.

The difference though is that the AI in those games simply compliment the build, they aren’t core. For instance, most of yoricks damage from the actual spell instead of the ghoul, most of zyras damage comes from the actual nukes from the spells etc, the AI don’t hit hard and die really fast (one or two hits). Where as in this game, look at turret engineer for instance, the turrets have massive health poor, do insane amount of damage and have lots of CC. Same can be said for minionmancer, most of its power comes from its passive minions. I will reserve judgement on spirit weapon guardian until after the patch, however if those spirit weapons hit as hard as the player then it will just be poor design once again. Another thing that AI in this game does that league don’t is they clutter up the screen making it difficult to see kitten.

EDIT: also not to mention yorick and zyra has been continually nerfed for how strong they are due to passive sustain thru AI and heal (yoricks case) and just too much nuke from plants (zyra).

You know when you play a pvp match, there is always that one necro that plays like a warrior and charges into mid point , dies almost instantly. I wouldn’t be surprised if these were the same people complaining about how necro have no sustain/gets focused too easily. Your class weakness is suppose to be lack of stability/stunbreak etc, because if you didn’t have those, your class would be broken as eff.

You are suppose to play necro like an lb ranger in teamfight, sit at the back and nuke people with condis and strip boons of guardians/warriors etc.

a full signet warrior doesn’t exist in pvp though, this is what all AI build needs to be at, not viable for pvp. Unless they can find a way to remove its passive power either giving player more direct control and have it do less things by itself then there is no reason these build should exist.

so many PU mesmer mains against these change is not a surprise really. If it bothers you so much how about actually start playing shatter and start learning your class mechanic for once?.. oh but what am i expecting from the forum community, clearly PU and death clone did not need a nerf because you are mad skilled player that uber pwns people all day and clearly not the build and its passive nature (almost bot like) carrying you.

I have asked many top players about this change! and they all think its a bad change.

Ehecatl.9172:

Lifestealer.4910:

That isn’t the main thing being discussed though. The OP is talking about how the current AI implementation affects pvp. If you want to have AI be more player controlled which i will fully support, it will be another thread.

Actually the OP is asking what the communities thoughts on AI builds are. He didn’t ask how AI is effecting PVP, only how the players and the Anet staff feel about the existence of AI builds. Others came here to explain their views on the builds and to talk about the more skillful implementations of the playstyle, and how they’d like to see the AI builds reflect that playstyle more accurately.

You’re the one who is basically calling everyone who voiced enjoyment for that playstyle bad players, which is a good way to completely derail the thread and turn it into an argument about what constitutes “Skillful play”.

The OP asked ANETS stance on the current implementations of AI builds and community voiced their stance. I for one dislike the AI builds that are in the game atm because of the passive nature of the AI which is perfectly in line with the topic of this thread. You are however proposing a change to AI builds which is completely different.

Ehecatl.9172:

Lifestealer.4910:

and i am not really surprised really that looking through some of these AI lovers post that they are mostly turret engi players. You can tell which players failed to play the real engi build aka kits because of the skill required and instead they cling on to AI builds as crutch.

My main is a staff elementalist. Your comment holds no weight on me whatsoever given I’m playing one of the highest skill floor professions in the game.

And you ignored the people telling you that turret engineers aren’t an example of a good AI build. They are effective, yes, but they don’t fill the same roll we’re talking about when we talk about playing an AI control build. We don’t want to drop the AI and let it auto attack until our enemies die, we want to be able to actively control our minions so we can use them to the highest level of our ability.

That isn’t the main thing being discussed though. The OP is talking about how the current AI implementation affects pvp. If you want to have AI be more player controlled which i will fully support, it will be another thread.

and i am not really surprised really that looking through some of these AI lovers post that they are mostly turret engi players. You can tell which players failed to play the real engi build aka kits because of the skill required and instead they cling on to AI builds as crutch.

I like how people are trying to explain AI builds as if they require skills to manage and play LOL. No seriously, i have played turret engineer, spirit ranger etc.. I haven’t tried minion mancer but there is literally no skill involved in these builds, its all passive, all you need to do is focus on staying alive which isn’t an issue since you can go the tankiest amulet with all defensive traits allowing you screw up a ton.

or just take shadow art like all the unskilled thief in wvw do and boom, lots of condi removal

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

To the poster above, and to everybody else who thinks like him, I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but action speaks louder than words and even louder when it’s from MISTER NOBODY.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-roster-for-the-guild-wars-2-international-all-stars-tournament/

So telling him he’s wrong because YOU think he sucks… is really sad.

Who said they think he sucks? You are fanboying it up right now.

He could be the best PvPer in the game, but that gives him no more credibility than I to speak on balance, and being engrossed in SPvP gives him less credibility to speak than someone who spends equal time in all parts of the game.

I am saying based on his suggestions, he seems out of touch or personally pushing an agenda. You may stop defending him now, he has a keyboard.

Are you seriously telling me that your opinion which for all we know can be a pve heroes point of view holds the same weight as a player that consistently plays at the highest level of pvp who also happen to main said class of the discussion?..and to say someone like him is out of touch when he knows ALOT more than you and i do would usually be regarded as offensive. Thats not to say you can’t voice your opinion but don’t expect everyone to value it as much and to tell us that we should.

Not to mention it isn’t just him that thinks way, many other top players or just pvpers in general shares the same opinion on that D/D ele and current warrior build whether hambow or axebow is too strong. If you look at the current meta, dagger ele build rivals any of the top tier warrior builds and we all know warrior is about to get nerfed and for good reasons, what makes you think ele will not just shoot up to S tier if they aren’t nerfed?

People saying as if anet thought it through with these changes?.. since when have they actually think properly with class balance?.. remember those dhummfire changes?.. or the healing signet buffs as well as giving warriors plenty of immunities?.. what about those turret buffs for engineer?.. or the celestial buff on top of buffing ele sustain all on the same patch?.. its clear that anet is making the same mistake as always and are not improving on their way of approaching balance.

Hypocrites.. hypocrites everywhere!

I am really surprised at the lack of ele white knights coming here to defend this spec. When people claim that warrior or thief is OP, its always met with strong resistance from fanboys who attacks and ask people to l2p and claiming that their class is fine and balanced.