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Its really disgusting to have people defending this change. It doesn’t take a genius to see how much of a detriment if this change was to go through.
Nobody is crying about p/d thief or pu mesmer for pvp but the direction that anet is going, if they succeed in making these builds fit the meta then expect a dead pvp (if it isn’t dead already).
Its funny that people think 1v1’s don’t occur often in competitive pvp. Also besides, given anets track record i wouldn’t trust their “statistics”, remember the dhummfire patch anyone?
Sethren, the game does and should revolve around PVP.
No, it doesn’t, and no, it shouldn’t. You could not be more wrong. You do not decide what the game revolves around just because you play it. Therefore, devs should not focus on balancing things related strictly PVP because the entirety of GW2 “revolves around PVP.”
Then tell me sunshine what should the classes be balanced around?.. 1v1?.. PvE?.. 1000vs1000 man zergs in wvw?.. what should they be balanced around?
And lol at the “mesmer is just portal bot in pve” you obviously know nothing about mesmers
Except mesmer IS portal bot in PvE.
Look at any record run that uses mesmers and you will see they barely fight. They just run around portaling people! Sad, yet true.
Except they are not. Mesmers are wanted for their reflects thru feedback and warden as well as time warps. Those are the main strength, they can also provide decent dps as well as trash skips for dungeons. Granted they don’t do it as well as thieves but at least they have more going for them then thieves.
THe only reason people say mesmer is bad in pve is because guardian usually fulfills their role better but what they fail to realize is that guardian is just an extremely powerful class in all parts of pve and taking a class that is slightly sub par over it wouldn’t affect your ability to complete challenging content.
the clone auto attack.. and clone death i can agree is somewhat passive.. but now the block is also passive? if they pushed the block button and it hit you with torment as an attack is that more or less passive then having it be a block?
No the block is not passive as it requires the person to actively time and use the spell and it also allows the enemy to counter play as you can also dodge out of the counterattack even if u hit thru the block, the main point of my thread though is the changes and the passive torment that they are giving which pushes the brainless condi mesmer to be more stronger than they should be.
What use are cleanses against 2 seconds of Torment that is reapplied every 2 seconds? That’s what will be coming out of Scepter clones. Not high stacks, but all but impossible to do anything about.
As i said, he is just another clueless scrub that prob wants a cheese build for mesmer as he can’t play mesmer right, Anet catering to such players is why the competitive scene is pretty much extinct. Just read that comment about how mesmers are only portal bot in pve and you will understand how he doesn’t know jack squat
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Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).
What cracks me up is how you PvP’ers think the game revolves around you. Mesmer has one spec that you can’t face roll, and you all start crying. Ever hear of a cleanse? Know how to use that skill? No, instead of thinking up a strategy to counter, you all start whining. The mesmer finally gets a buff, and the sky is falling.
Did you ever think that Condition Mesmer in PvE might need a buff, and this scepter change was much needed, so they can actually kill something? Sure, it’s doable now, but it takes forever. Did you ever think that your incessant whining about mesmer a is the reason Mesmers are nothing more than a support portal-bot in PvE? No, you don’t because all you care about is yourself.
You sound clueless, if you running condi anything in PvE then you are doing it wrong and if you think this buff will change that then you are mistaken. Also your first comment about pvp clearly shows that you have no understanding of anything so you should stay away from this thread if you are again, clueless.
Nobody likes condi mesmer because its the most passive and brainless spec there is, it makes p/d thief and turret engineer look more skillful but i bet you don’t even know the builds i am talking about.
And lol at the “mesmer is just portal bot in pve” you obviously know nothing about mesmers
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Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have? You are basically promoting no skill gameplay and if this build ever rolls into the meta, that is last nail in the coffin for your so called competitive play. WvW roaming will be deemed dead as well as all you will see is PU mesmers and P/D thieves ( you already see endless of this brain dead OP spec).
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sounds like its the thief players that needs to l2p. How about you dont use stealth when that ranger is channeling rapid fire?.. god forbid you have to think for once instead of kitten kitten stealth as if it should be a get out of jail free card 100% of the time.
is this build forgiving enough with moderately high ping that it can succeed?
I agree with the poster that said Acrobatics defense should be buffed. What would be great for the thief class is to have actual survivability outside of stealth. We need more diversity in builds. Every thief build uses SA in WvW. I’d love to see some D/D evade thieves out there, and not actually dying to condis every 3 seconds, or getting 1 shotted by a warrior. We need defense outside of stealth, which will give players the option of using either Acro for Defense, or Stealth for defense. Maybe even a hybrid of both.
Acrobatic needs buff?.. never faced an s/d thief in pvp have u?.. , its getting nerfed this patch for good reasons.
Stealth needs more counter and not less.
Make it so that damage a stealthed target destealths them and/or stealthed thief moves alot slower than normal.
Hopefully they nerf elementalist sustain. After patch when the warrior gets nerfed, if ele does not follow suit then expect 6 months of elementalist dominance in pvp where they can both sustain and do insane amount of damage with little effort ( they can already do that but at least the current warriors and thief rivals that and keeps them in check).
Even sizer agrees that steal should be melee only forcing thieves to burn their other gap closing spells just to use it.
This is really the case with most class in this game. All warrior builds need to go at least 4 in defence and 3 down the last line for cleansing ire and fast hand. Engineer needs to have 6 in offense for grenades and at least 2 in the last line for speedy kits. All LB rangers need to grab the piercing arrows and read the wind to even function.
I watched the video on twitch and I notice something interesting. They don’t explain their reasoning for these nerfs.
Probably because it feels like they throw darts at a dart board that had all the abilities on it and that’s how they chose what gets buffed and nerfed.
5 second of Signet of Rage? For what purpose?
17% damage increase for axe #5? Pretty sure axe auto attack is still going to out damage it in most scenarios.
Mace third attack buff? Super. Barely anyone uses mace but a buff is a buff, I guess?
Impale torment nerf? Great. Who actually uses that?
Greatsword changes. Okay, who didn’t see that coming after all the complaints over the last 2 years it’s (wrongly) gotten.
And the biggest one of all, the adrenaline changes? All downsides and no upsides yet they’re trying to sell it like there is some. People saying it will make the warrior rely on better positioning? Have you guys actually played this game, with all it’s aoe abilities flying around constantly? Besides that we’re talking about warrior here, not thief.
impale who uses that?.. is that real question or troll?.. impale is what makes celestial warrior do wtf amount of condis.
Be glad they didn’t nerf healing signet and steal.
While im sure there alot of senseless complaining. There are some complaints that a valid against thieves, for instance steal has little to no counterplay. Top players would agree that this spell is the main reason why thieves continues to push other classes who tries to run dps spec out of meta for pvp. An instant gap closer that has no LOS, does massive damage and also CC’s and poisons + get a stolen ability.
Eh, regardless of what the other classes get, Rangers still come out ahead in this patch because they’re getting improved in a lot of areas. Getting onto every PvP team? Quite possibly no, but they are definitely coming out ahead of where they were.
Its not hard for rangers to come out from these changes. As they say its easy to improve on garbage, whether the changes will make longbow ranger a thing tho its hard to tell. We will have to see what kind of nerfs thieves get before we start seeing more lb ranger.
When a person comes to a “all zerk, be experienced” or “want X class for X content” party and the person who clearly don’t fit the bill and didn’t bother reading the lfg and joins gets kicked, why is it that the elitest players gets the hate?..
If people want to do things casually they can, just open up lfg and put your descriptions something like “no trash skips, play casually” or “all cleric gear party” there. I really doubt there would be zerker elitest players joining that party, and if they do, you can do same thing and kick them!.. win win situation
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Stay delusional, not really my problem but one day you will realise the truth when you go do content that doesn’t allow to mindlessly sit back at 1500 range and spam 1 and see how far that will get you.
Calm down.
Whatever bad thing happened to you in your life, it will be okay.1. I dont qualify as I dont use a bear. (they’re ugly)
2. I also only use the bow to begin engagements.
My apologies if I prefer to play a game for fun instead of a math competition.
lol ok bro as if you need a bad life just to wonder why there are so many bowbears, i am sorry that playing optimally means i won’t be having fun, man its like the only people who play effeciently hate the idea of having fun or something.
There are hardly any bearbows in pvp outside of hotjoin
Must be my unlucky day then because i have encountered like 3 bowbears today in team arena (i yolo queue here), 1 was on my team and afk’d at the very start of the match. The other two were on enemy teams (thank god for that).
Stay delusional, not really my problem but one day you will realise the truth when you go do content that doesn’t allow to mindlessly sit back at 1500 range and spam 1 and see how far that will get you.
When i say bearbow, i mean bearbow. I should also state that imo i think its ok to bearbow in open pve but when i see this build in pvp or in wvw roaming.. lets just say every bearbow in pvp has been complete dead weight to the team and every bearbow in wvw that i encountered has been a free kill. I don’t think people want a bearbow in dungeons either.
Rangers everywhere are relieved to hear they’ve got your blessing to use longbows in open-world pve.
not sure if sarcasm but that is the perfect place to use it. I just don’t see why people bring it to other places where the spec clearly don’t belong.
Because that’s what they like to play. Who cares if it’s not optimal?
The kicks from dungeon parties and pvpers not wanting to be on team with a person running that build that i seen plenty shows that there are people who cares.
When i say bearbow, i mean bearbow. I should also state that imo i think its ok to bearbow in open pve but when i see this build in pvp or in wvw roaming.. lets just say every bearbow in pvp has been complete dead weight to the team and every bearbow in wvw that i encountered has been a free kill. I don’t think people want a bearbow in dungeons either.
Rangers everywhere are relieved to hear they’ve got your blessing to use longbows in open-world pve.
not sure if sarcasm but that is the perfect place to use it. I just don’t see why people bring it to other places where the spec clearly don’t belong.
When i say bearbow, i mean bearbow. I should also state that imo i think its ok to bearbow in open pve but when i see this build in pvp or in wvw roaming.. lets just say every bearbow in pvp has been complete dead weight to the team and every bearbow in wvw that i encountered has been a free kill. I don’t think people want a bearbow in dungeons either.
This single spec i have seen people run it in every single game mode.. pve, pvp or wvw it doesn’t matter. Whats up with that, why are some people so in love with it.
no point, pvp is dead.
I would give sympathy except the OP purposefully afks in games.
I personally find builds that run mostly signets BORING. Signets themself seems uninteresting at all. I prefer they just buff survival or trap skills.
How is it that my net shot almost always get obstructed when i shoot a moving enemy that is out in the open field?.. is this intended?
i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.
You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.
Did you try putting more than one condition on the Mesmer, or using any AOE spell whatsoever. Or standing on terrain slightly higher then what the Mesmer is on so none of his shatters or leaps can reach you. Needz moar countaplay.
i did in fact put conditions but most mesmers in duel server traits for condi clears and it was on open field for most of the duels so its fair.
i went to duel server and duelled many mesmers and they seem fine, too strong if anything. Lots of evades, invulnerability, damage from shatter and even unspecced phantasms.
You can’t have everything bro if you want to have your teamplay potential increased then your class needs ALOT more counterplay.
What a condescending thread this is. How dare someone not jump on the Ranger Pity-train Express, right?
Here’s the skinny. If you concern yourself with PvP then Ranger is infact not in the worst position. I know, sounds like heresy for saying it.
The last big pvp event we saw Ranger used far more, and more succesfully, then Mesmers or Engineers.Not saying rangers dont have problems, but this stupid dogma that Rangers are the single worst at everything and need massive buffs and unconditional love is getting ridiculous, aswell as getting in the way of any sensible discussion.
Get over yourselves, you dont have it as bad as you think you do.
Get over it, mesmer doesn’t need much if any help. Only thing they need is bug fixes, rangers is in alot worse situation and the fact u mesmer main/players have nerves to come to a ranger thread and tell us u have it worse is insulting to say the least. Rangers had no place in any mode for the past 2 years, ok except that 1 month when spirit ranger was a thing but that was shot down instantly. Mesmers on the other hand had a place in pvp, pve, wvw zerg and are the top dogs of roaming. What are the rangers good at?.. oh NOTHING.
One of the main strengths of mesmer that people fail to appreciate (at least the ones that play mesmer) is that they are extremely good at clogging up the screen with bloat. This gives mesmer an advantage because people like me get an eye sore looking at the crap they fill up, all the clones and phantasms. It also screws up targetting sometimes
sure, i don’t mind a buff to gs as long as you make sure to nerf healing signet, cleansing ire, beserker stance and longbow then we have a deal?
Assuming i don’t use minion master build because it looks boring, can this class work well even with 250ish ping?
Sounds like anet alright, ignoring the playerbase when they are offering criticism is how things escalated into frustration and anger.
They focus more on the super casual playerbase; the type of guys that do pvp once in a blue moon. Guys that dont take pvp in this game that seriously.
- Those are the guys that keep the numbers high enough. Its short term and not a solid base for a thriving pvp scene….but anet is fine with that.
- Those are the guys that are ok with minigame type of gameplay.
- Those are the guys that dont mind lack of depth or one shots.
- Those are the guys that dont mind the overall state of the pvp community and the lack of numbers.
- Those are the guys that prefer horizontal development over vertical development. Shallow toys and gameplay vs developing and improving the excisting flow of gameplay/combat.They dont really care about GW2 developing in to the quality pvp experience it couldve been. As long as they have their short term pvp fix once in a while.
Hardly anyone takes the pvp in this game seriously, because it is just one big mess. If you want this game to have competitive pvp, the whole entire combat, class mechanics and balance needs to be overhauled which is too late to do.
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Mesmers are moaning because they want all their other build brought up to PU level of faceroll. Its also why u see mostly phantasm mesmers in yolo queue, because they want AI to do all the work for them.
Good, thieves dominated the meta for too long. Hopefully anet makes them useless for the next two years to balance the time period all out.
I am all for nerfing thieves into the ground by giving everyone stealth reveals. This class has dominated the meta for 2 years now, so its time for them to take a back seat for the next two years.
It seems all classes will 1 skill that reveals even thief but that doesn’t mean it’s nerfed to the ground it diversity for other classes unless you’re part of the community that panics when you see stealth. When you’re downed even with that skill the thief will get your tears.
All in all the thief changes might make you take back those words. It’s not like we are immobile when revealed and cannot evade or escape and come back eh?
To clarify, i did not say such changes will nerf thieves to the ground, but i hope that they do get nerfed into the ground as this class is completely toxic to the game and have been reducing the amount of viable dps spec in pvp for years now. I am sure many people would also agree that fighting a thief is just anti fun even if you do manage to beat one.
I am all for nerfing thieves into the ground by giving everyone stealth reveals. This class has dominated the meta for 2 years now, so its time for them to take a back seat for the next two years.
Warriors have too much, plain and simple. All class/builds should have drawbacks, when i make a bunker ranger, i forfeit any means to do damage and contribute to teamfight just to have good sustain/tankiness and while still lacking stunbreaks and more. When i make any engineer builds, i will always lack stability/condi clear/stun breaks making me weak to any condition/CC builds. Thieves all lack stun breaks/stability and are quite squishy tho i will argue that S/D thief is a bit too strong but mostly due to fire/air sigil.
Take your average celestial axe/bow warrior as an example, this build has extremely high damage from condition and direct damage, at least 2 stunbreaks and one stability that last 10 seconds (one of the longest stability in the game only surpassed by other classes elites skills), not only that you have 10 seconds of condition immunities and a 5 second condi clear thru CI and longbow. It also has crazy high survivability from base stats, healing signet alone not to mention endure pain. The only thing this build lacks is mobility but that isn’t an issue in conquest mode.
Every single class/build that isn’t a d/d ele dreams of having any of the strengths that warrior have.
Celestial warrior and ele are tied with engineer behind. A warrior with celestial amulet + a few might stacks can do 8k+ dmg on impale, 5-6k pin down and combustive shot also does quite alot of damage (never really checked the numbers). Thats just conditions, eviscerate still easily top 6k+ as well as the autos from axe will do 1-2k per hit. A celestial warrior pretty much can cheese win 1v1 against most builds, and thats not even mentioning the damage of the shotgun fan of fire and arcing arrows. Any other builds have to dodge 90% of the skills above (which is plain impossible on 99% of the players) or risk getting facerolled instantly
I have noticed many times when facing a warrior that despite me dodging a pin down, i would still get hit by it during my dodge. It seems as if once the warrior already fires it, the arrows will hit you no matter what?.. is that intended?
What about Bonetti’s Rapier if you’re looking for a slick sword?
Besides, the ambrite weapons are very elegant with their fancy decorations and curved blades. I think the designers are doing a good job on providing a style for everyone.
the ambrite weapon had potential but the oversized shapes totally ruined it.
The ratio of fat, blunt and oversized weapons is way out of hand when compared to the slim and elegant weapons. Take sword for instance, the only elegant sword are infinite light and fractal sword, both of which are insanely hard to get. I know somebody will suggest low level weapons but those weapons have other issues like being too generic.