I bought the Delux. I don’t care, I enjoy the game. And if I don’t throw money at arena net they’ll never get around to fixing the absolute mess that is the necromancer.
It would be a silly build to say the least. The problem is that even this build is ruined by terror’s placement. And this build type is intended to kill yourself! GG anet. GG.. We can’t even kill ourselves right.
So with the new corruption changes I can think of only one possible build that could come from it. A suicide bomber. A classic guild wars one builds. The problem is we have the suicide part. But not the bomb part. Maybe if we had a trait to damage foes around us on suffering conditions maybe Master of corruption would be semi decent. But it would have to be a massive chunk of damage with no internal cool down. I could actually see it now as a really hyper niche build. But, currently a Mallyx Revenant still does it better. Of course, everything a necromancer should do well a Revenant does better.
Just think fellas, not only can we vuln and blind ourselves when traited for corruptions, we can also trait to add chill AND EVEN MORE VULN, HOORAH!!!!!
doesn’t work like that. It says on foes. So you can’t actually do that to yourself.
See, if master of corruption copied these conditions to foes around you or something like that It could be really decent with aoe blind. But with NO benefit for using it its just pure terrible.
Does this mean with the grenade range nerf engineers stopped working out?
It means that they don’t need as much upper body strength because of their inventions in other areas.
The engineer in my opinion has been the most interesting profession to watch as it has grown throughout the history of the game. When arena net says that the engineer is a very “Forward thinking profession” they mean every word of it.
With the most recent patch coming up the engineer is getting allot of buffs and changes. More so than any other profession. But the interesting part about this is unlike other professions where making up a reason as to why their abilities are getting stronger through your own convoluted justification through lore, the Engineer has a much easier time doing that.
For example just looking at the rocket boots it clearly tells a story of an aspiring engineer struggling to perfect the mechanics of those boots to be something useful. The first time I used the rocket boots they knocked me down and sent me flying in the exact opposite direction of where I might want to go. I knew this invention was faulty and this was a delightful flavor of the boots. But being true to the engineer they had to tinker and improve. Soon after that the boots were improved and could send you a great distance in the direction you want to go. Further Tinkering and now you can over charge them and go even further.
The Advancements don’t stop there either. Many of the toss elixirs were random. And further down the line of the profession those elixir’s formulas have gotten stronger and better. Now able to stealth allies or provide stability. Removing the random factor and making something more refined. Truly an engineer trait.
The Mortar Kit is another great example. A Powerful tool that would leave the user stationary to use it. Being the innovators that the engineers are they could see this and think of a way to make it more mobile.
In my Opinion the Design of the engineer is extremely interesting. And each new iteration of the same skill is easily justified as them improving their craft and never taking anything at face value. Always asking “How can I add rockets to this?”
In conclusion the engineer has a very delightful design that gives us story telling through the patches and its mechanics. I kinda wish Arena net had some nods to this fact in game. Would be nice to have some people talking about how these changes might have effected them.
I believe the devs do know we are in a bad spot. However, Robert Gee has said in one of the last preview videos that they explicitly do not want to give us a bunch of blast finishers which was a coded way to say they have heard our complaints but they don’t agree on what exactly necros should have. Based on the balance changes and Robert’s followup explanation, it would seem that they want to try to give necro a non meta (blast, block, etc.) and unique means of support and team interaction. It all sounds very experimental and obviously the results look it.
I think with people basically saying give necros what the meta professions have, Anet reacted negatively to re-working them and making them more samey because of that. My reaction to all of this is they have done some interesting things with Necro but they have the meta working against them in terms of player perception of the Necro. They haven’t gone far enough to change the general player opinion of the Necro overall in terms of group play and pvp. But really, they have two options that I can think of to fix this. Either bust up the current meta team comp through balance or include the necro in the current meta balance. They are reluctant to go with option 2 but haven’t moved toward option 1 either. Perhaps there’s an option 3?
You know that I made a post about a year ago talking about how the necromancer should have a trait that functioned like the GW1 skill Contagion. You know who got that skill? The revenant. Its not like we’re all talking about blast finishers and fire fields. A few people are but many of us want fixes in a very necroish way. And those ways are either being given to other professions or almost completely ignored.
I feel you on Revenant, Mallyx legend specifically, treading too deep into necro territory. I’m just hoping that Revenant doesn’t get GW1 spiteful spirit with their other legends. They haven’t given anyone any skills that make enemies deal damage to their nearby allies and want to break away from their group. If and when that happens, I do hope Necro gets that.
Revenant specialization will have spammable minions that cost energy. Yep. Calling it now. Joking aside, the design of the revenant seems to be stepping on allot of necromancer ground. Although not all of it. Ventari stance is very much a restoration ritualist. Mallyx is necroish and Ironhammer isn’t too far out of the realms of necromancer either. Rather than taunt though a chain that drags them in. But every single one of the Ironhammer skills could easily be themed to the necromancer. Without issue.
(edited by Lily.1935)
We really need somebody at anet who understands the class, plays the class, and has the pull to make things happen
Out of the big 3 that have been in an insanely bad state for way too long you have Ranger, Engineer and Necromancer. Currently range is in a really good spot, Engineer is finished. And that just leaves Necromancer who needs major work. Why is the Necromancer last? We’re the least popular. And we’ve also been in the worst state out of all three.
The better question is why are they still trying to nerf us at this point?
Well. I Think it goes back to one of my points earlier. They don’t know how we function in reality in anything. So they don’t think we’re in a bad spot. But the community is breaking apart. Fewer and fewer people are actually interested in having a necromancer main and once the revenant comes out it might put a nail in our coffin and any sense of uniqueness we had will be snuffed out and the community will all but die.
The bad part is I think that’s exactly whats going to have to happen before they start to realize just how bad of a spot we are in. Also, one theory about the Engineer was that their new skill type might be minions. And if that happens you can consider any remnant of the community to be completely gone.
I believe the devs do know we are in a bad spot. However, Robert Gee has said in one of the last preview videos that they explicitly do not want to give us a bunch of blast finishers which was a coded way to say they have heard our complaints but they don’t agree on what exactly necros should have. Based on the balance changes and Robert’s followup explanation, it would seem that they want to try to give necro a non meta (blast, block, etc.) and unique means of support and team interaction. It all sounds very experimental and obviously the results look it.
I think with people basically saying give necros what the meta professions have, Anet reacted negatively to re-working them and making them more samey because of that. My reaction to all of this is they have done some interesting things with Necro but they have the meta working against them in terms of player perception of the Necro. They haven’t gone far enough to change the general player opinion of the Necro overall in terms of group play and pvp. But really, they have two options that I can think of to fix this. Either bust up the current meta team comp through balance or include the necro in the current meta balance. They are reluctant to go with option 2 but haven’t moved toward option 1 either. Perhaps there’s an option 3?
You know that I made a post about a year ago talking about how the necromancer should have a trait that functioned like the GW1 skill Contagion. You know who got that skill? The revenant. Its not like we’re all talking about blast finishers and fire fields. A few people are but many of us want fixes in a very necroish way. And those ways are either being given to other professions or almost completely ignored.
The technology just isn’t there yet.
You forgot a TM at the end of that.
We really need somebody at anet who understands the class, plays the class, and has the pull to make things happen
Out of the big 3 that have been in an insanely bad state for way too long you have Ranger, Engineer and Necromancer. Currently range is in a really good spot, Engineer is finished. And that just leaves Necromancer who needs major work. Why is the Necromancer last? We’re the least popular. And we’ve also been in the worst state out of all three.
The better question is why are they still trying to nerf us at this point?
Well. I Think it goes back to one of my points earlier. They don’t know how we function in reality in anything. So they don’t think we’re in a bad spot. But the community is breaking apart. Fewer and fewer people are actually interested in having a necromancer main and once the revenant comes out it might put a nail in our coffin and any sense of uniqueness we had will be snuffed out and the community will all but die.
The bad part is I think that’s exactly whats going to have to happen before they start to realize just how bad of a spot we are in. Also, one theory about the Engineer was that their new skill type might be minions. And if that happens you can consider any remnant of the community to be completely gone.
We really need somebody at anet who understands the class, plays the class, and has the pull to make things happen
Out of the big 3 that have been in an insanely bad state for way too long you have Ranger, Engineer and Necromancer. Currently range is in a really good spot, Engineer is finished. And that just leaves Necromancer who needs major work. Why is the Necromancer last? We’re the least popular. And we’ve also been in the worst state out of all three.
What necromancer NEEDS is a developer who cares about, understands and can empathise with Necromancer’s problems.
I have never seen a developer say they main necromancer on any platform (In game, forums, reddit, other social media) whereas we have a myriad of developers proudly maining mesmer/guardian/warrior/thief/etc.
In short, we need a voice on the dev team, and that seems to be something we sorely lack right now.
Why would anyone want to main a necromancer when they’re so dull to play? I only started maining a necromancer because of GW1, but honestly its not that enjoyable.
Ok, well you are right about basically everything you said, and I agree with you. To add though, the people who wanted Terror to be master (I was in favor of one of the grandmasters dropping) had other conditions that they wanted. For instance, I wanted Path of Corruption to be a minor trait or a new grandmaster if terror was going to be master, and I wanted Lingering Curse to still work with all skills if scepter was equipped. Instead, neither of the conditions were met, and instead of opening doors by moving terror, it just made the entire curses line worse. Imagine if Path of Corruption had been moved to grandmaster and inherited the cooldown reduction part of Master of Corruption. Suddenly, it would be the ultimate boon hate trait and it would have made terrormancer better. Instead, terrormancer can’t take all the traits it needed to function anymore.
tl;dr the change to Terror was not made under the “conditions” the community had set
That was just one example in resent memory though. Stuff like that seems to happen to us all the time. I’m not sure how I’d drop its length with a Tl;der. I don’t know. Open up the conversation and be transparent with us and get someone with allot more experience with all game types on the necro? I don’t know.
Yeah I think it looks pretty good. That 20% condition damage sounds alright. I don’t think it’ll be great without the proper support from skills though. Plus it has internal synergy with your other traits that will give you more power. Though that doesn’t sound too impressive at the moment. We’ll have to see. It wont matter though without proper access to stability.
I know this throws other Necros under the bus but I’d be ecstatic if it worked with minions, too. I’m not sure really what else we could do to the base of the trait to make it any more useful to the Necro though without sending it overboard…
Is it not effective enough it not enough unique effects to it, in your opinion?
I think its a solid trait on its own personally. Its got some nice synergy with other traits as well as some runes. Although synergizing well with runes of Undeath is still not that great and doesn’t warrant its use. Still funny to think about but not good. Hehe.
The biggest issue with it is the toughness doesn’t really help us much without stability. If we can’t survive focus fire this trait doesn’t do anything. I was thinking about a weird Cavalier/Valkyrie reaper build with this though. Hits hard with high crit change seems alright. I’ll have to actually test it but I do like the trait.
this is the most stupid thing in this game!
You must be new here.
I was about to typed that but I ignored the thread thinking it’s a troll lol.
Necros are so broken when in down state! Its, like! Totally un-fair and stuff! Like, one person can’t like stomp us without defending them self or something. Like OMG, I’m like having a like hard time with dealing with a downed player, you know. Its not like I can just get out of their Downed state range and like, Kill them from range or something or stealth up behind them. I mean.. Like.. Where are those millions of options? How do I necro?
Sarcasm aside, I know how you feel.
When talking with the community or looking at what the devs have to say its very clear to me that absolutely no one has any idea what it is this profession actually needs, myself included. The big issue isn’t that the community is complaining allot either. That is understandable. it isn’t even that many of us get really angry about our profession considering we are straight up being denied from group content and aren’t competitive.
A couple of the issues I see is on the devs part. It doesn’t seem that any of them really spend much time playing a necromancer. Perhaps a 100 hours at most when a good percentage of us have gone well over 1k hours on our necromancer alone. They seem to have this misconception about the profession or believe we have more defense and offense than we actually do. On both sides. When testing for the necromancer the person facing the necromancer might have just as little knowledge of how the profession works in practice as the one playing the necromancer. Which can result in easy wins for the person playing the necromancer. But they miss the bigger picture of the fight and don’t understand why the necromancer won or how the opponent could have played differently to easily take full advantage of the necromancer in turning all of their strengths into weaknesses. Because that’s exactly what happens in PvP.
Another Issue I think might be happening is that they listen to part of the conversation that’s taking place about the necromancer but not the whole conversation. A good example of this is terror. The community was actually fairly split. But it wasn’t split into 2 ways. It was actually 4. You had the people who wanted it as grandmaster, people who wanted it in a different trait line, people who wanted it as a master and people who thought it was currently too weak as a grandmaster but was otherwise okay with its placement. One thing about this though was before it was revealed the debate was actually settling more in favor of keeping it as a grandmaster, at least from what I could see. But merging it with Master of terror(now fear of death) to free up some much needed space in Soul reaping to make a terrormacer more competitive.
There are also issues on our end as well. We aren’t always very clear on what we want from out profession. We also tend to pre-nerf all suggestions anyone else has or nerf everything ahead of time before it happens. These two facts combine kinda puts us in a bad situation as we’re trying to compromise our suggestions down and Anet sees this and if the suggestion gets in its compromised far further than what we wanted. A good example of this is Lingering Curse. Gone from an amazing trait to a really boring and un-creative trait.
One example of improper understanding of the necromancer is with Consume condition. It seems that the devs assume that this skill is over powered in its current form. When that’s far from the truth. The skills is quite powerful but thats because the necromancer without it has a really hard time dealing with conditions. And considering we can’t block, evade beyond our endurance bar, go invuln, stealth, get stability we absolutely need something like this in order to be even remotely competitive. This coupled with the fact that our other heals are extremely weak even when compared to racial skills. When the patch hits I’m probably going to use Prayer of Dwayna because its actually just going to be better than our other heals. I’m not joking about that either. If we had proper condi cleans and our other heals were actually useful we wouldn’t notice it so much. However this isn’t the case. The necromancer doesn’t have proper condition cleansing or good heals outside of Consume condition. Which I’ll agree was one of the best heals in the game, but not the best by any stretch of the imagination. If it was given to a guardian for example they’d still probably just use shelter over Consume condition.
So how do we fix this? I honestly have no idea outside of having an honest and open line from the devs to the players. Considering the necromancer community feels under-represented and rather ignored. We need to be sure we have someone with both ears open to us.
still split between 2 stats, doesn’t scale well with either of them very well. I don’t see how I’m the only one who sees this problem.
The Consume condition nerf is the biggest thing. This is the thing that everyone agrees on. Well… Except that ONE guy. So that should at least be addressed.
That kinda depends on how intense the conditions are that you receive if you trait it. In my opinion, 10 stacks of vulnerability is too much, add an additional chill or something on top of that and it could really hurt.
Also, a 4 second duration, even though it seems low on paper, it’s pretty high in practice. If you use it after a fight, it will keep you in combat for an additional 4 seconds which is high for fast paced collapses that you need in PvP.
But then, all the additional condi transfers and removals that we will get with the patch can change the equation. It’s hard to judge it on paper only. We have to play to find out.
I’ve used Consume condition to get rid of 10 stacks of vulnerability before.
this is the most stupid thing in this game!
You must be new here.
Yeah I think it looks pretty good. That 20% condition damage sounds alright. I don’t think it’ll be great without the proper support from skills though. Plus it has internal synergy with your other traits that will give you more power. Though that doesn’t sound too impressive at the moment. We’ll have to see. It wont matter though without proper access to stability.
More minions!: Again I completely agree. Except for one thing. I personally think it would be hilarious if the bone minions flew screaming through the air and fell down at the target location in an explosion. But that’s just me.
This would be even better if they finally gave us fluffy bunny bone minion reskins.
You’re speaking my language! Undead bunnies from the underworld! Can Flesh Golem become a pony?
@lily
I thought the same thing. 3 pierce baseline on life blast and the trait increase the targets hit with Shroud 1 skills to 5. That would be an amazing niche for Necromancers.
Same with Dhuumfire. My thoughts were either bumping it to 4 or leave it 3 and make Shroud 4 pulse 2 (or even 3) burn and be like a more burst oriented skill.
Personally, I’d prefer leaving it 3 and allowing it to affect shroud 4 would be amazing.
I would agree with 3 if it effected all your shroud skills. The issue with dhuumfire and allot of the necromancer’s offensive design is that it encourages the necromancer to just auto attack. But if we had burning on all the shroud skills players could be encouraged to use their other skills as well without fear of their damage dropping. If burning turns out to be too strong, go with torment. Just make it so we don’t lose out on damage by being in Death shroud.
Picture 5:
- Minions: Not much to say on my part. I agree. Minions are not fun to play and could use some much needed love.
Picture 6:
- More minions!: Again I completely agree. Except for one thing. I personally think it would be hilarious if the bone minions flew screaming through the air and fell down at the target location in an explosion. But that’s just me.
Picture 7:
- Spite: I really don’t think this line needs much work at all. The Spiteful spirit grand master needs some work and I don’t think with the suggestion to make unholy feast a blast finisher this would be good for us. I don’t think we should actually have a tone of blast finishers so That should be completely changes.
Picture 8:
- Curses: I have my alternative for this one. I’ll give you a link but I’m not a fan. You do your Minions and I’ll do my condi. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Lets-fix-Curse/first#post5170410
Picture 9:
Master of corruption: This honestly shouldn’t apply additional conditions to us. It should grant 3 seconds of resistance though when we activate a corruption skill. This is a master not a grand master so improving their function shouldn’t be what this does. Save those kind of abilities for the Grandmaster slot.
Picture 10:
- Reaper’s Protection: Its good as is. No need for it to change at all.
- Deathly strength: This is rather offensive for a defensive line. I’d keep it as is. Maybe have it increase condition damage as well as power so it has a dual function but that might be a bit much.
- Phylactery : This is a bit too strong for a minor.
- Unholy sanctuary: Keep it as is but if you’d take fatal it should stunbreak, remove all conditions and give 1 second of invulnerability. Self applied Aegies really isn’t our theme.
- Corrupter’s fervor: Actually looks really good as is. 300 toughness is pretty high.
Picture 11:
- Mark of blood: Combat only should be a thing. Yes, I agree with that.
- Banshee’s Wail: I say it should cause bleeding rather than protection. But that’s just me.
Picture 12:
- Unyielding blast: I think it should stay as is. However I personally feel that Life blast should pierce 2 targets as a passive without this trait and up to 5 with it. So the reaper’s scythe would also get a bonus of striking up to 5 targets for each strike as well giving necromancer the highest possible cleave in the game.
- Feast of Souls: That’s an interesting idea. I don’t have too much to say about this because I don’t know if it really fits soul reaping.
- Dhuumfire: I was actually thinking that either it was upped to 4 seconds or changes so that all your attacks while in death shroud cause burning.
Added note:
- Life blast, Plague blast and Necrotic Grasp: These all should be projectile finishers with a 100% chance to trigger. this 20% nonsense needs to stop.
(edited by Lily.1935)
Picture 3:
- Corrosive Poison cloud: I actually have a completely different idea for this. Keep the self weakness application but a dramatic change is in order. Change it to a stunbreak that casts a aoe at your location that actually moves with you and blocks projectiles with its normal function. Up its cool down to 60 seconds since now this would be a really powerful defensive skill for us. Also give it a 1 second of 1 stack of stability to cover its cast time. I think its important that if you’re going to run a corruption build that you have a stunbreak.
- Signet of Undeath: I kinda like that change. I’d add one thing. Drop its cool down to 120 second recharge.
- Signet of Spite: I think maybe it needs a recharge drop but not that far. Maybe 40 seconds. But its active I don’t think it should have that active I really like it as is.
- Spectral walk: I like the idea of it removing those conditions. I’d keep its current cool down though and have it grant 3 stacks of stability as well as making you immune to those conditions while the walk is active. And ending the walk could grand 3 more stacks of stability. This could give some incentive to keeping it active or ending the walk. And of course keep its swiftness.
- Well of Darkness: Personally, I think it doesn’t need to block projectiles. Perhaps make it slow enemies inside as well as blind.
- Lich Form: I think Arena net should just look at this entire skill and perhaps redesign it. At the moment we don’t have incentive to do anything in it besides auto attack for days. And to me this is a major flaw and I don’t think the suggested changes would be enough.
Picture 4:
- Should probably increase the bleed stack. Maybe. But it shouldn’t be a blast finisher.
- Spectral grasp: I’d say increase its speed as well as increase its range to 1,500. We don’t have allot of ways to close the gap and having something that could grab those engineers or rangers and force them on our turf is a good idea in my opinion.
- Shroud: Yeah I actually agree with you. It shouldn’t spill over and signets should work in shroud.
- Plague: I say redesign the skill. Have it plus out poison as it always does but rather than giving you skills like a transform make it similar to Rampage as one used to work. Have it do the aura of poison as well as copy conditions off of you to foes. Because revenants straight up stole our skill we should get it back but stronger.
- Healing in shroud: Not sure. I’d have to see how this might work in the future with proper defense to see how I feel about this one.
Now that I’ve had a chance to rest lets reply to this. I’ll be replying to each picture separately so lets do this.
Picture 1:
- Unholy Feast: I actually feel that the life force you get from this skills is in a good spot. If you had a off hand that gave life force you wouldn’t notice a problem here. Because its usually paired with Dagger which doesn’t provide life force the focus becomes much heavier on this skill. I do Agree that it should apply a condition. and with the damage bonus instead being a condition bonus. I think 2 stacks of Vulnerability per condition will make this skill really good as it will increase the base damage of all your other conditions making this rather valuable.
- Putrid Mark: Yeah, I actually agree with this one. We’ve lost allot of our support and it would be nice to have at least a small amount of it back.
- Mark of blood: Yes.
- Grasping dead: Yeah.
- Unholy Feast: This one I think would be much better as a blast finisher. But as we go further down I don’t think blast finishers should be a major theme on necromancer. So One more would be nice but the others you suggested are too much.
- Rending claws: I don’t think this should steal life. Instead I think this should have a 1/2 second cast time and be a chain skills. So it could be Rending claws > Tearing claws > Murderous claws. The first two would be identical to each other and cause vulnerability while the last one will be a channel skill that takes 1 second to complete, applies 3 stacks of vulnerability, strikes 3 times and does much more damage than the other two. Its damage would be slightly increased as well.
- Ghastly claws: I Think the damage on this one needs to be increased. OR, alternatively it should deal damage to your target AND deal damage where you are spinning the axe making it a whirl finisher as well.
- Axe conclusion: Personally, I feel the axe should reward you for getting in closer. Much like Life blast does currently. So having it function like a reverse mesmer greatsword or revenant hammer would be my preference. Sure, have a trait that increases its range to 900, but maybe give it a damage bonus only while you’re under 600.
Picture 2:
- Wail of doom: Shouldn’t be a blast finisher. Its pretty good. I’d probably like to see it with its original function which was fear and confusion.
- Spinal Shivers: I agree.
- Deathly swarm: This is basically my suggestion. So of course I’m in favor of that.
- Life Siphon: I actually disagree with part of this. I think its numbers should be exactly the same. HOWEVER! I think its channel time should be cut in half.
- Consume condition: Please for the love of Grenth return this to its original version.
- Well of blood: Yeah, revert the healing nerf but rather than it healing through shroud make it a water field.
- Signet of Vampirism: I’d say replace its active with granting allies an actual vampiric aura. So that we have an actual aura that can combo with allies and gain some function with runes. Change its trait to trigger its active as well so it doesn’t have to be a lesser signet of vampirism. Although it doesn’t combo with the new signet trait very well. Make its activation a pulse dealing small damage to foes around you and granting the aura to allies and yourself so it will combo with the trait.
- Epidemic: Yes, reduce the cast time. No to making it a blast finisher.
Oh boy. I’ll have to come back to this one. I don’t think we’re that far off from usability but some of these changes are way too complicated and wordy or just unreasonably powerful. Let me get some sleep and I’ll be back in the morning.
the changes were really good. lots of options for necros. experienced players are loving it for the most part.
haha, i am going to save this comment so i can have you eat it after Tuesday.
Some of the changes were good. The Spite changes seem to be mostly solid. Though the Curses changes are really bad. Death looks pretty good. Blood i’m skeptical about. I’m going to say one way or another at the moment. It could be great but its hard to tell at this time. Soul Reaping is mostly great but dhuumfire could have its duration increased to 4 seconds.
The spec changes are now fine, which is making it harder to get attention because thats what all the dev attention is on right now.
The problem is with our core abilities and mostly with the healing ones, which haven’t been touched in forever and are thus less likely to see attention.
Also, necros have too much to complain about. speedy kits got touched because it was the only nerf and literally every engi could agree on wanting a revert. The necro forum is just a cacophony that’s really intimidating to look into.
The Consume condition nerf is the biggest thing. This is the thing that everyone agrees on. Well… Except that ONE guy. So that should at least be addressed.
Actually making it a spectral makes it too good.
the changes were really good. lots of options for necros. experienced players are loving it for the most part.
haha, i am going to save this comment so i can have you eat it after Tuesday.
Some of the changes were good. The Spite changes seem to be mostly solid. Though the Curses changes are really bad. Death looks pretty good. Blood i’m skeptical about. I’m going to say one way or another at the moment. It could be great but its hard to tell at this time. Soul Reaping is mostly great but dhuumfire could have its duration increased to 4 seconds.
The consume condition nerf was such a bad job, while there was no way the would touch shelter for guardians. SO MUCH BIAS, how do you think this i stills fun or counter play? Wtf. You want us to use other heals, the make them worth kitten. You failed selling that as the logic is simply not there. It’s ridiculous.
Thank your for ruining the trust the developers have with players. If you look into the warrior forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/josh-what-about-mending-physc-skills/first
they are getting a dev to respond by being polite. You are just spotting random crap into the air hoping that a dev will explain themselves to a player that is frothing at the mouth.
Give it a rest already. You obviously haven’t proven to them CC needs to be fixed. And you behave in an uncivilized matter, so no discussion on it will take place
They’re answering questions about functions. They’ve done this on the necromancer forums too. This isn’t about how good or bad the skills are.
snip
I’m upset at the flat loss of 30% condition duration with all that duration front-loaded into my scepter. 66% isn’t something that’s out of the question especially considering that other traits don’t have good use with the current build. Such as dhuumfire.
As for Parasitic contagion, it doesn’t fit Curses. It didn’t even fit spite. Blood I suppose but we’d have to drop something from blood. I’d personally make it so your condition damage heal allies around targets who are suffering from conditions. Maybe tests its healing out put but as it is I’m not a fan of it for curses.
Oh I still hate the Curses changes. Honestly Its absolutely terrible. And consume condition is just dreadful. As he was talking about Master of corruption I just couldn’t help but think “You can’t be serious?” Everyone is talking about how terrible this trait is. NO ONE is praising it! NO ONE wants to run it!
Weakening shroud is anything but weak. 50%+ upimr in weakness is huge. Weakness has 50% to fumble and -50% endurance regen. If the vigor changes are true it completely counters it.
It doesn’t scale very well against multiple foes. At the moment it seems more designed for 1v1 dualing. And having it be the same but an aoe weakness on the same cool down could allow it to scale and function far better with the reaper specialization. Ultimately that means it still doesn’t change any when you’re fighting 1v1. Its not that its weak its that its lacking something, and I think that’s what its lacking considering the necromancer doesn’t have very good methods for scaling against multiple foes.
trying to implement changes when only focused on 1 spec is never a good idea.
the suggestions have the other specs heavily in mind.
As for pvp the Terrormancer is right now and it shouldnt be too much of a difference I think.. Just my opinion on that though
Its pretty weak right now and with the greater emphasis on conditions this means its going to be further left behind than it already is. In order to get the boon conversion the terrormancer will need they’ll have to go into spite which means they’ll lose out on a couple really useful traits they’ll need in Death magic. Or in Soul reaping. Or they’ll just have to run signets which means their life force generation will be much weaker.
Personally, I see terrormancer as a rather defensive build with minor burst. And we can’t actually run it like that. I would have liked to have a lingering curse build along with a terrormancer build to really create some unique game play between the two builds. One using terror to weaken and control while their defenses build up while the other debilitates the foe giving a very different twist on each of the build’s play style. But with the changes they’ve shown us neither of those builds can exist. Instead we’re getting a sub-optimal Signet build in its place.
Didnt say it in the other threat but MoC isnt “really” usable by a power spec.
not really usable yes, but it helps a little bit just like Spinal Shivers or the in the would help a condi a little bit.
but spite is a power focused line and curses is focused on condi so it cannot and shouldn’t provide amazing support for power specs..the main focus should be to improve Condi builds or am I wrong?
and @Lily yes you are right the Terrormancer needs to be adressed by Anet but its main problem is in the Soul Reaping Line.. the Idea of merging fear of death with terror sounds pretty amazing =)
You’re not wrong about condi builds needing to be addressed at all. I wouldn’t say master of corruption is good for a power build considering previously you’d only bring one corruption skill on your bar. Corrupt boon. Perhaps 2 with the changes if Consume condition stays a corruption and gets fixed to a usable state. But beyond that you’re going to want to take spectral master or w/e its going to be called now. Curses really doesn’t have anything too compelling for a power build at the moment. Enfeebling shroud, maybe But even that doesn’t seem very good.
Right now Curses has okay Adepts, poorly placed Masters, and atrocious Grandmasters.
soo since this is a thread to improve the Curse line I just wanna throw out there my idea of it.
I thought instead of that Fury you could simply put Path of Corruption in Minor2 since it helps ANY build, boon corruption of for example protection helps a power build too.
so it would look like this:Minor1 Barbed Precision (maybe with 66%proc on crit)
Minor2 Path of Corruption (with or without Fury)
Minor3 Target the WeakAdept:
Terrifying Descent
Plague Sending *
Chilling DarknessMaster
Terror
Master of Corruption *
(free slot)Grandmaster
Weakening Shroud *
Parasitic Contagion
Lingering Curseeverything marked with an (*) is usable as a Powerspec too,
especially MoC since the addtitional conditions dont bother you too much since you have a low condi damage, especially with the formula changes they deal even less than before when not focused on condi. So you can still have your Consume Conditions at 20s by getting some vulnerability and idk maybe bleed for 5 seconds or so…the condimancer can use all traits since they would all fit in a condi build.
any thoughts on this? =)
One of the issues I have with the traits is allot of them are just underwhelming or out right bad. Such as parasitic contagion, which also doesn’t fit the theme of the trait line. Lingering curse is also not good enough to be using up a Grand master slot in its current version and terror is competing with a trait the terrormancer needs.
Going on the terrormancer problem, the build wants Spectral skills in order to work. properly. And it also favors the staff. Spectral Mastery, Vital Persistence and Fear of Death are all competing for the same spot on the terrormancer’s setup. combining one of these, Fear of Death, with terror and moving it up to the grandmaster slot while dropping parasitic contagion frees up allot of space for this build while at the same time letting something like Lingering curse increasing duration of all conditions to exist in the same space without making one or the other too powerful.
Keeping with the precision theme is also important. So keeping path of corruption a master is perfectly valid as it doesn’t function as a precision trait.
interestingly, barbed precision used to be 33% with 2 second duration.
That’s not true, it’s always been 66%.
They did however buff the duration a long time ago, it used to be just 1 second originally.
Oh, sorry my mistake.
We may not be able to pulse the conditions already on us to other people but we can cleanse those conditions by sending them to the person who sent them to us or using what they did to us to kill their friends.
I’ll be doing my part in coming up with viable builds for the class and I’m sure a lot of you will too even if you’re screaming bloody murder right now. I’ll be smiling in my chair when you guys find that OP build of legend.
Two problems with that theory of yours. We need to have targets to be able to do that is the first problem. If they’re out of range, you’re SOL. If you’re fighting multiple foes you don’t actually have the tools to send all the incoming conditions back. Even with reaper shouts. This has been one of our problems with conditions for a long time. And the fact that Consume condition was both our best and only way of dealing with all conditions we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. Its not a win win, its a bad choice faced with a bad choice. You’re better off not touching any corruption skills with the patch. I would even suggest against taking corrupt boon.
Another problem though with the trait signets. You have very little control when they trigger, unlike your actual signets. Which means they might trigger before you actually want them too which is rather bad. And with random conversion you’re leaving allot of it up to chance if it’ll actually convert what you need to remove. Meaning through an entire fight it might never convert Resistance. Or it might convert it every single time. You’re leaving allot of it up to the chance of RNG. Which I’m really not a fan of. And a build that relies on luck isn’t a good build. And the signet build is the best possible condition build we’ll have.
So do we actually know the duration of the new Barbed Precision? I just figured they had changed it from 66% chance of 2s to 33% chance of 4s (See: Warrior Precise Strikes). Or maybe a base of 3s before the 20% increased duration is applied, so it’d be 3.6s…?
interestingly, barbed precision used to be 33% with 2 second duration. The issue at that time is how rare it was to trigger at all and how short its duration was that a necromancer was unlikely to apply very many bleeds through precision. At that time it was actually recommended that necromancers don’t take rabid gear because of the slow attack rate of the necromancer. Comparatively, the warrior who had a functionally identical trait could trigger it multiple times in one fight, even easily capping their bleeds at 25. The difference in performance between two professions with identical traits was clear to them and the rest of the community and they upped the trigger to 66% to compensate for the necromancer’s lack of attack speed.
Now the only reason I can think of for why the chance would be dropped is because of the reaper. But when examining it more closely, that doesn’t even make sense to me because even with how much faster the reaper attacks when in comparison to the base necromancer the reaper’s shroud has only 1 damage condition on its own. With the theory crafting I was doing I still expected to lose bleed stacks for staying in reaper’s shroud. Where I expected to make up for that loss was with deathly chills and Dhuumfire. But with the other trait changes coupled with this, I don’t expect reaper’s shroud to ever compete with the core profession for condition application. Which is pretty bad considering that the current necromancer doesn’t compete with mesmer, engineer, warrior, ranger or thief in this department and with their universal buffs and our major nerfs I can’t possibly see the thinking behind any of arena net’s decisions with the curses specialization.
First plague form of bleed and stacks 2~4 bleeds permanent for a total of 40~80 seconds, even with the division through the xtra health you get a nice 2500 damage at least.
Plague: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 1 stack of bleeding for 2 seconds to you every second it is active.
2 seconds of bleed. 1 Stack.
Rather than make ridiculous assumptions someone was kind enough to math it out in another thread.
You will now be nuking yourself for 9k to 14k damage over the course of every plague.
Yup. 2 seconds. 1 stack.
Thats 120 damage (slightly more or slightly less depending on your condi dmg) stretched out over 20s that can be nullified by an Ele standing next to you in Water Attunement or just someone giving you regeneration.
You’re kind of just proving that you don’t understand how the game works. Unless you’re going into plague at 100% health the damage taken is still the same damage taken regardless of mitigation. Saying that its possible to heal that damage back up doesn’t mean jack because you could have been healing up_ other_ damage. I see this mistake made so often. Damage taken has no correlation at all to the marginal utility of healing unless you’re screwing up and overhealing.
You’re also not even considering the fact that plague will now pulse a free cover condition on you, making it much harder for allies to help you if you get immobilized/chilled. There are so many problems with the pulsing bleed that you just aren’t seeing. Take a look at it from the PvE perspective. Players that use it for the stab on jumping puzzles are now just getting thrown into combat immediately and totally kittened over. The list goes on.
I see your point, really but the damage from the bleed is very minor. Anything that heals you will out heal it. The additional condition is only if you run MoC and really, the reason you run MoC is because you’ve got something else up your sleeve that you can do to counter it’s effects.
And about PvE, plenty of players get through those JPs without Plague. You don’t need Plague for that.
Another issue you’re not seeing is you’re getting no internal benefit from this. Consume condition shouldn’t be a corruption or it should replace vulnerability with 2 seconds of Weakness. Although I’d much prefer to have it function exactly as its old version. Much like the rest of the community. The problem with Master of corruptions is you’re weakening yourself without much gain. in fact, if you look at the skill cooldowns of the current corruptions then compare them to their patch cool downs you see that master of corruption is just punishing you to be on par or very slightly shorter cool down than it was before. We as necromancer can’t take advantage of suffering from conditions like the revenant can. We don’t have resistance, we don’t pulse copies of our conditions and our corruption skills are not nearly as strong. The Strength of corruptions has been argued back and forth for a long time now. Weather or not the conditions they apply to the use makes the skill too weak or just on par with other skills. But they’ve never been that great especially compared with other professions. The only two that really stood out were Corrupt Boon and Epidemic. And Epidemic is rather gimmicky while corrupt boon was nerfed almost into uselessness.
Considering how the player base is I don’t expect to have ANY useful condition builds for the necromancer at all. Arena net seems to be back peddling with some of the balance philosophy with this patch and necromancer is being hit the hardest by it. And the signet build I mentioned before? Its not even going to be that good. But it’ll be nerfed. The difference between 1 boon and 2 boons can make or break that build and if it gets nerfed thats the first thing that arena net will go for and it’ll drop off the face of the earth. I’m already worried that the boon application will out preform any conversion we can execute, but if history has taught me anything about necromancer balance. We don’t get to keep any of our toys. We don’t get to be competitive. We don’t get to be included in content.
You want to be competitive? You’re going to have to run power. And with the new environment you’ll always be 2 steps behind everyone else.
I really hope arena net actually listens to this. I’m really trying to be constructive here. Please please please, arena net. Don’t destroy my favorite Specialization.
The quick change is make it read that Lingering Curses makes your damaging conditions last longer (doesn’t affect Terror/Deathly Chill).
What is frustrating though is the fact that all of our non-damaging conditions have already been nerfed due to us losing our +30% condition duration from the traitline… We have NO general condition duration anymore.
Thats why I said a flat 66% sounded reasonable.
The staff change really wasn’t my concern personally. My biggest concern is with Consume condition and Curses as a whole. The staff is peanuts in comparison. But its nice to know its a bit stronger. I suspected it might be but I’ve been too distracted by the devastation that is curses.
This Question is very important.
Clarification: the only thing that was changed was that you can’t use “Spectral Walk” in air. You can still use “Spectral Recall” which is the skill that returns you to your original location. This means you can still use Spectral Walk, jump off a cliff and teleport back.
What you can’t do is jump off a cliff, double tap Spectral Walk (and then Spectral Recall) just before hitting the ground to nullify falling damage.
Thanks for the clarification.
I Have a very important question about legendaries and the reaper. Will our attacks in Reaper’s shroud have a trail based on the legendary we are using? Can I have a rainbow trail with bifrost?
(edited by Lily.1935)
Keep an eye on the change list post at the top of this thread. Still making adjustments here and there and things pop-up.
Well that’s good. I’m really concerned as a Condition necromancer. Considering that’s where my heart lies.