That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.
Then they should keep a close eye on it. Not destroy any build potential it had before ever actually seeing what it might do. Like how they’re keeping a close eye on everyone else but letting them have massively over powered traits that easily trump Lingering curse in the previous version.
It would have been nerfed if it went live like that. Any build that can be utterly dominant by just pressing 1 (which this build would have between scepter, chill procs, and dhuumfire) will be nerfed. You’d tear apart anything but a shoutbow from range, and even then you might get to the shoutbow because they’d have constant poison and the chill would draw out their cooldowns so long that they would eventually run out of buttons to press with their face.
You mean spamming 1 builds like every single power necro build?
This wouldn’t have been like that. I’ve looked over the duration and its not nearly as powerful as you guys are making it out to be. Especially considering people can easily disengage us without a problem. Even with our heavy chill they can. And with resistance it becomes even easier. I look at other professions and see flat condition duration across the bored or high passive damage increase on conditions combine with ready and easy access to valn, much easier than what we have and they’re easily doubling their condi damage. Not to mention the engineer’s ability to spam crippling for days.
Even if it was as strong as you guys think, would 66% duration really break us that much? The answer is no… Especially considering condimancers have fallen out of favor and have been out of favor for about a year and a half now and with the coming changes they wont stand any chance and being in favor, the suggested fixes I’ve made could at least make curses good. Not favorable because we’re still missing allot of tools that we absolutely need, but at least good.
Your build suggestions were extremely bad. You never run Spiteful Spirit. You just don’t. Run Signet of Suffering on a condi mancer now because that’s going to be your absolute best option.
Well… you kinda just made my point for me. We don’t REALLY need PoC now, do we?
Running Master of corruption is basically asking your foe to kill you faster with no pay off. Don’t run a corruption build you’ll die. Oh and you won’t be able to apply as many conditions as you seem to think. With the changes to barbed precision you actually lose a huge chunk of condition damage. Your best bet with a condition build is going to be signets. You’re pigeonholed into a signet build which really SUCKS!
Yea…. I don’t see that.
No I didn’t. You need to land your signets to get them to trigger and if you’re on your butt the entire time it doesn’t matter. Also information is one of the key ways to win a match. Just by having signets you’re potentially giving your foe 90% of your build’s information before you even engage. This gives them near perfect information on weather or not they want to engage with you. If they’re worth their salt and engage you you’re screwed. If they tease you for a bit and leave or just leave you don’t gain nearly as much information as they do and all your cards are on the table before the encounter ever happens.
The victor is most often the one with the most information. And you’ll be giving away allot of your information for free with potentially no upside.
Plague Sending: When you have 3 or more conditions on you your next critical hit casts Plague Signet on your target. This trait benefits from the recharge bonus of Signets of Suffering.
It has a 30 second cool down and you can’t always control when its going to trigger.
Your build suggestions were extremely bad. You never run Spiteful Spirit. You just don’t. Run Signet of Suffering on a condi mancer now because that’s going to be your absolute best option.
Well… you kinda just made my point for me. We don’t REALLY need PoC now, do we?
Running Master of corruption is basically asking your foe to kill you faster with no pay off. Don’t run a corruption build you’ll die. Oh and you won’t be able to apply as many conditions as you seem to think. With the changes to barbed precision you actually lose a huge chunk of condition damage. Your best bet with a condition build is going to be signets. You’re pigeonholed into a signet build which really SUCKS!
Yea…. I don’t see that.
No I didn’t. You need to land your signets to get them to trigger and if you’re on your butt the entire time it doesn’t matter. Also information is one of the key ways to win a match. Just by having signets you’re potentially giving your foe 90% of your build’s information before you even engage. This gives them near perfect information on weather or not they want to engage with you. If they’re worth their salt and engage you you’re screwed. If they tease you for a bit and leave or just leave you don’t gain nearly as much information as they do and all your cards are on the table before the encounter ever happens.
The victor is most often the one with the most information. And you’ll be giving away allot of your information for free with potentially no upside.
That’s just one example. It would have allowed me to stack massive immobilize on enemies, it would allow for easy perma cripple/chill/poison, maybe even weakness, 4 second AoE fears, basically it would validate the need for the stupid amount of spammable condi removal, since without it you would consistently have half a bar of condis on you.
Then they should keep a close eye on it. Not destroy any build potential it had before ever actually seeing what it might do. Like how they’re keeping a close eye on everyone else but letting them have massively over powered traits that easily trump Lingering curse in the previous version.
Your build suggestions were extremely bad. You never run Spiteful Spirit. You just don’t. Run Signet of Suffering on a condi mancer now because that’s going to be your absolute best option. Running Master of corruption is basically asking your foe to kill you faster with no pay off. Don’t run a corruption build you’ll die. Oh and you won’t be able to apply as many conditions as you seem to think. With the changes to barbed precision you actually lose a huge chunk of condition damage. Your best bet with a condition build is going to be signets. You’re pigeonholed into a signet build which really SUCKS!
Power stays the same. But the thing is none of these builds are even remotely competitive. And you provide absolutely nothing with a condition build in PvE, even with epidemic but a build can’t rely on a single skill.
I agree about the barbed precision change, totally unnecessary. But I think we all knew that lingering curses wouldn’t stay. I mean, every chill from chill of darkness would be 4 seconds. You could leave plague with a minute of chill on a target, as an aoe. It was too strong and it was going to be nerfed.
They buffed chilling darkness to 2 seconds. Personally, I think they should keep it at 1 and give us the Lingering curse trait. Its more constructive for builds.
Consume conditions and curses are my two biggest complaints about the changes. Now, that doesn’t address the fact that all of our weapons except warhorn need love, that we still need some QoL fixes to other skills, that our heals need to be buffed, and plenty of other issues, but at least consume conditions being treated like shelter would resolve half of the problems I have with the changes being made. The other half would require curses to be fixed.
I agree. Lots of problems with curses and no upside to allot of the changes. Especially when we compare it to other professions condition line. Some traits are exactly the same which is bad because the compared profession has double or triple the attack speed we currently have, other changes just kill us like master of corruptions and then we have traits that sit on top of each other such as terror and path of corruption.
I don’t really think there is reason to nerf lich form durnation (again) because staying in lich form makes you very vulnurable to focus fire and you often dont want to use the full durnation of the transform (in PvP atleast).
I think lich is such a flavorfull and cool skill for necros to have but the durnation on it is getting pathetic.
One of the Issues I have with it is you don’t have much of a reason to use the other 4 skills it gives you. They’re slow, clunky and drop your damage significantly.
my biggest concern in this line is furious demise.. especially now sonce they moved everything towards condition I dont see a sence in that fury. IT DOESNT BENEFIT ANY CONDITIONMANCER AT ALL.
the fury is there to proc crits on shroud4.. well lets do the math..
DS 4 has 9 hits.. lets say until those 5 seconds of fury are over we get additional 3 hits of making it 12 hits during that period.. +20%critchance makes 2 more crits out of 10 strikes.. maximal 3 out of 12. so 1 of this 3 strikes will trigger that bleeding stack of 3 seconds what will deal about 360 damage… proved, fury on condibuild serves nothing..it should be moved somewhere to the sould reaping line.. then just fill that minor with somewhat any condibuild can use.. maybe “Path of Corruption” or “weakenig shroud”
I have so many concerns for this specialization it isn’t even funny.
There was just so many times in the ReadyUp with all the other classes that they said “This will be really strong but we’ll keep an eye on it.” Why not just kitten-ing keep an eye on this stuff and tune parameters or durations as needed? Lingering Curses effecting all conditions by some N% couldn’t possibly have been a big enough buff to overpower Condimancers, who were already an underpowered class even when not competing for conditions on enemies.
God that really made me angry. Not you, but just being reminded that they said that. You’re completely right though.
On the plus side, Dhuumfire will work rather well on a Reaper.
no it wont. The damage scaling isn’t high enough to warrant taking it. With only 1 stack of poison, and barbed precision dropped from 66% on crit to 33% on crit along with it being 3 seconds you’ll be able to maintain about 6 stacks. Probably 5 stacks because of after cast delay. Just go power on reaper. No point using conditions with the horrible traits we’re getting for condi.
Remember Dhummfire? Remember how it wasn’t overpowered yet people still complained and in response Arenanet nerfed everything BUT Dhummfire? I’m sorry, but giving up is very viable an option.
I would hope that arena net would have learned by now. They seem to be acknowledge our plight as of late. But it all seems to be hot air. They’ve even gone to state that Stability is really important to the necromancer and especially the reaper. But its questionable considering the fact we have less access to it than even the MESMER!
You guys might be right. Still I have to keep fighting for our profession. My heart lies in Curse. Its always been there. Ever since GW1. I can’t just abandon my favorite way to play.
Its locked in. We are stuck with this garbage for at least a year. We just have to make do now. Or reroll or quit. We must all make our own choices.
We have to keep fighting for it… We really do. Remember Foot in the grave? That was nerfed into the ground and a week later it was made into a stunbreak. They’ve made on the fly fixes before and we are going to need them.
- Barbed Precision: What was the point of dropping its trigger down to 33%? Considering the necromancer is the slowest attacking profession in the game combine with the fact that out of the slowest builds in the slowest profession condimancer is the slowest of the slow. Buff this back up to 66% chance.
This change made no sense. Condimancers get like one attack a second and with a 50ish% crit chance, this trait will give us one 2s bleed every 6 seconds or so? This wasn’t a trait that needed to be nerfed, since other faster attacking weapons (dagger) don’t put on any conditions themselves…
- Lingering Curse: Return it to what you previewed for us before. 150 condition damage along with 100% condition duration while wielding a scepter. If the duration is too much drop it down to 75% or even 66%. But it still needs to function on more than just two skills. A lot of potential builds were riding on this trait and without it they’ll never see the light of day. If I can be knocked down for 5 seconds, and stun-locked into oblivion I should at least have the option to return the favor. If its competing with terror than there is no complication between the two.
This was my largest issue with the update notes. They killed so many really fun builds before they even had the chance to see the light of day. If it was too powerful simply change the percentage to something lower. Then again, Arena doesn’t really seem to care if their Necros are having fun or not, but a grandmaster trait that buffs two skills is totally lame.
I had a condi reaper build that relied on the Lingering curse trait to make it Viable in reaper’s shroud with Dhuumfire. It was a rather restrictive build since you had to take very specific lines to get it to work but it would have been worth it. Now I don’t see a good reason to run a condi reaper. Even if chill is high damage I can’t justify taking that over something else. It seems to me that the condi build the necromancer is going to be using the future will rely heavily on signets. Because of Signets of Suffering trait along with other traits that act like signets it just seems natural that it’ll evolve in that direction and Corruptions will go the way of the dodo. Which seems to be my biggest problem with the changes to the necromancer. They open the door for 1 new builds and slam the door on everything else.
Curse still has some decent options going for it at the moment. Some traits are still really good while others don’t seem to be that great. So first lets break down what is good, bad or needs improvement. How things can be better placed to help this line out.
Good
- Furious Demise and Target the weak are both really good.
- Plague Sending: Solid Adept-. Has a 30 second ICD according to its description but its a minor I don’t expect this to rock the boat. Will be solid.
- Path of Corruption: Decent Master trait. hard to argue with its location in the trait line. Its not going to define any builds but it is a source of boon conversion.
Bad
- Barbed Precision: What was the point of dropping its trigger down to 33%? Considering the necromancer is the slowest attacking profession in the game combine with the fact that out of the slowest builds in the slowest profession condimancer is the slowest of the slow. Buff this back up to 66% chance.
- Master of Corruption: Applying more conditions to you is bad. This means you’ll have to sacrifice even more of your defenses to transfer these bonus conditions you’re applying to yourself. Gives a 33% recharge reduction but honestly, not worth it. My suggestion to improve this could be 2 ways. Make it so when you trigger a corruption you copy your conditions to up to 5 foes in a 600 radus along with the extra condition or remove the extra condition, reduce the recharge to 25% and have it give us resistance. The second option would be preferred as scaling defenses is something we’re currently lacking.
- Terror: Move back up to the Grandmaster slot and combine it with Master of terror. This is a quality of life change. You want us to play a terrormancer, fine. I’ll agree with you. But you have to meet us half way and give us the tools to be able to do so.
- Lingering Curse: Return it to what you previewed for us before. 150 condition damage along with 100% condition duration while wielding a scepter. If the duration is too much drop it down to 75% or even 66%. But it still needs to function on more than just two skills. A lot of potential builds were riding on this trait and without it they’ll never see the light of day. If I can be knocked down for 5 seconds, and stun-locked into oblivion I should at least have the option to return the favor. If its competing with terror than there is no complication between the two.
- Parasitic Contagion: Just remove this trait. With blood as an option for us we’ll have enough life stealing to easily make up for anything this could have provided. Just… Get rid of it..
Needs Improvement
- Terrifying Descent: Not really much to say about this trait. Its kinda underwhelming but all fall traits are that way. Increase the fear duration to 2 seconds I’d suggest, since you have to hurt yourself to use it.
- Weakening Shroud: I just can’t help but feel like this is missing something. It just doesn’t feel right to me. Perhaps if on critical it gave weakness to your foe and around the target? Actually, yeah that could be good.
These are my suggestions. What might you suggest to improve this line which is currently in shambles?
I wish Plague was just a Reaper of Grenth-like effect with blind/poison and 3 stab every 3s, I wouldn’t even mind if it kept the current bleeding, but it would no longer increase stats, but also wouldn’t lock you out of your skills.
Lich should be like Rampage as One, with its 5 skill as a second active after using it. Gives you a large DPS increase through a stat boost for 15 seconds and pulsing stab, but requires you to still land your normal abilities.
Boom, both abilities work much better, are more interesting to use, and don’t bar you from the rest of our profession.
I’d like that too. Maybe some boosted condition damage while its active too. Like 200 or something.
Its not like we got nerfed. While there are very valid complaints to be made, the only build that might have been nerfed was condi, other than that we are stronger after these changes than before.
Considering I’m a condi player, its a devastating nerf to me. I wouldn’t have minded Terror with their original plans for Lingering Curse next to each other as long as terror got a bit of a buff to it. But now we have 3 Grandmasters that still sit on top of each other AND have 2 masters that sit on top of each other. I’d say that the new corruption trait sits on top but that one is so bad it actually kills us.
Honestly. Their not fun to use. Unlike the Guardian tomes these do see use. but they only see use because we don’t have any other real options. Both of these skills are just spamming one skill over and over again. Its repetitive, its boring and with the nerfs to them. Why bother? replace and remove these skills. I’d rather not be bored to tears while playing a necro.
2) Power-mancer: Strong? No
It’s a lie, powermancer is viable. At least for duels and roaming.
Balance changes are based on PvP. Asking if something is viable is normally used in that context.
And its not. Without access to easy stability or some sort of scaling defense powermancer is exactly the same as it was before. Dueling doesn’t determine matches in PvP and it doesn’t help us any in PvE.
lets fix this shall we?
Build Diversity
1) Minion-mancer: Still really really bad, never run
2) Power-mancer: Strong? No
3) Condi-mancer: Strong? No
4) Corruption-mancer variant: Strong? You end up killing yourself.
5) Spectral-mancer variant: Strong? No
6) Signet-mancer variant: Strong? Probably going to be our only option
7) Well-mancer variant: Strong? No
8) Hybrid-mancer variant of any listed: Strong? No
9) Bunker-mancer variant: Strong? No stability can’t take focus fire. No
10) Sustain-mancer variant: Strong? No
11) Support-mancer variant: Strong? No Stability can’t take focus fire. No
12) Shout-mancer variant: No.
13) Chill-mancer variant: No.
14) Reaper-mancer variant: Can’t take Focus fire. No.
You’re welcome.
The more and more I read the necromancer changes the more I scratch my head and wonder why… We’ve been hit really hard by this patch and everything that was said in the reaper live stream about them Fixing our issues at the core and not at the specialization was clearly a major LIE!
I am sick and tired of arena net lying to the necromancer community. We didn’t get a vampiric aura, clearly stability isn’t important to the necro since we didn’t get any, and I wont be able to play a condi reaper. And it gets worse. Our only useful heal has gotten an INSANE nerf. Which didn’t make sense, we couldn’t escape the fight before well now they’ll just have an even easier time killing us. The absolute slowest attacking profession doesn’t have access to anything to make up for it. And don’t bring up dagger, dagger is still a really slow weapon its only the auto that’s fast.
Maybe the blood changes will be good. Maybe. But I didn’t want to have to lose curse in process of making blood good.
Pretty disappointed, totally planned on using some sort zerk/hybrid reaper s/w gs. Guess that’s not happening now.
I had those plans too. With this change it isn’t going to happen. Especially considering investing in burn duration is a bad idea on necromancer considering we have a single trait that grants access to it at such a low duration a burn reaper’s shroud option is just going to be sub optimal.
I made so many post about how awesome Condi reaper was going to be and that was all resting on the shoulders of LC. Without that its dead.
Arena net mentioned on how not fun it was to take a trait like LC because it only effected 2 skills well now we’re back to square one. Its not not fun again.
I was going to wait to make this post until after I saw the updates. I had most of this written out and I had hoped some of this would change in the upcoming patch but it clearly doesn’t seem that way. So here it is.
Over the years I have criticized the Death shroud for its inability to properly provide us with defense, combos and offense. Death Shroud was advertised as a means to cheat death yet its always felt like wearing a mattress as body armor in a gun fight. Sure the Mattress provides you with some protection. It will slow down a bullet, though to call it effective would be far from the truth. But that really isn’t a fair comparison. Death Shroud does allow you to cushion blows quite a bit in some situations. It’s scaled rather well for 1v1 and even has some extremely powerful traits. But things aren’t always what they seem from an outsider’s perspective. Some might look at us and thing “Two health bars. Thats insane” but don’t see what we have to trade for that.
I’ve touched on the idea of how predictable death shroud can be and how a tenacious player or group could take advantage of the necromancer’s death shroud at the necro’s expense. And I’ll explain how. When you enter death shroud you drop from having 10 active skills available to a total of 5. Right at that moment you are trading down. Now you might think “Well that’s okay, I’m also getting the health bar”. But what you’re missing is that depending on the build the player might not want to use that “health” and would rather save the defenses and just use the skills. Or a player might want the padding but not the skills. In both cases the necromancer player is losing out on something major with little to no pay off for doing so.
Looking back at the skills. Lets look at that. So in death shroud you always have the same 5 skills that look and act the same give or take a few minor differences because of traits. An opponent fighting you only has to account for your 5 skills you have access to while you have to account for their 10-15 assuming they don’t switch skills. They suddenly have a much easier time figuring out what you can do while in death shroud because of your limited skills. While you have to try and figure out what they could do with their 10-15 skills(again not taking kits, transformations, weapon swaps, attunments or what have you into account.). The game to try and out predict your opponent becomes an up hill battle.
It actually gets worse from there. because death shroud is also supposed to be our defensive mechanic as well as a sort of weapon swap it can become painfully predictable when we enter death shroud. So not only are we extremely limited when back into a corner we have to push our selves into death shroud meaning we have less of a chance to survive against skilled foes. We end up only delaying the inevitable.
Necromancer players, myself included, have learned to reflexively enter death shroud when we’re in trouble. Though a few of us have learned to work with other mechanics to defend ourselves in other ways we all eventually have to act on that reflex to enter death shroud. And as I just explained above, we can easily be taken advantage of in this situation.
Even going Further than that the necromancer doesn’t have access to scaling defensive mechanics. Which makes us a sitting duck when fighting in and against organized groups. Some players have learned to target the necromancer to force them into death shroud and back them into a unwinnable situation. Putting the necromancer in downed state quickly tipping the scales in the other team’s favor. Some People have described these situations as the necromancer needing a babysitter in case they run into trouble and they’d be right.
Further issues can be elaborate on through the skills themselves though I don’t want to go into those in this post. As those I believe that deserve their own post. This is focused more on the Mechanic itself. And from what I’ve played and what I’ve seen our profession mechanic is supposed to both be a defensive mechanic and a weapon swap but this just means its worse off at both of these attributes rather than excelling in either or both.
Consume Condition wasn’t what was making us painfully predictable or what was holding us back, darling. Its death shroud. Its always been death shroud.
We don’t need other players to kill us anymore. We can do that ourselves.
The new lingering curse works pretty much like the current one, only 100% increase instead of 33%, and 150 condition damage on top. Its basically just a super-upgraded version of our current one, that allows for 20 second duration bleeds on AA. I’m guessing it will be really useful for soloing.
Its not any real difference from what it is currently. Only its worse when compared to traits other professions have with similar functions… Why did they nerf this so hard from the preview before? The only reason I can think of was fear. But even then It doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to me.
Well this sucks. I don’t really know where to start with this. But the 100% duration being applied to JUST scepter skills kinda kills any excitement I had for this, kills multiple builds I had planned. There isn’t going to be a place for Condi necromancers wanting to use Death shroud for longer than a few seconds now considering Dhuumfire is basically just a way so you don’t lose all your damage while being forced into DS. Well, thats a shame too because life blast is so clunky and slow anyway that if you’re stuck in ds, you’re probably dying and you should just abandon the fight.
With this updated change it keeps Dhuumfire useless, prevents Death shroud major DS use, kills any chance at a condi reaper, and keeps allot of our useless skills useless. I’m not even sure why this is a grandmaster anymore when looking at the other GMs from other professions. Sure, its good compared to the old trait system but we have new standards now. And this is just a disappointment.
Personally, I blame the people crying wold about it being too good or too useless. Especially with other professions getting passive 30%, passive 50% without the requirement of a weapon and they attack at almost triple the speed we do and get access to quickness while we’re still super slow. Not only that but getting increased damage of specific conditions. I was okay with all of that because we had the 100% duration. We had it and now its gone.
Good Job. I didn’t want my excitement to be killed today but it looks like its been thoroughly murdered, beaten, bloodied and buried.
I really like many of the changes we are getting. A breath of fresh air really. Some of them really good and I can’t wait to play them. But others really have me scratching my head and really wondering “Why?”. Spiteful Spirit is one of them. I mean with the Axe change making unholy feast boon conversion rather than just stripping this makes it a bit better. But at the same time I don’t feel its up to par with the other Grandmaster traits. I honestly don’t want to take this trait for anything even if I’m using axe all the time. It just isn’t appealing. Especially considering how much more powerful Signets of Suffering is. 2 boons, might and reduction in recharge? Not to mention signet of locus’s radius is being increased to 600. Also a few of the other traits that benefit from it. I just don’t see a place for it.
But what could it really do? Its not like Arena net is every going to be good on their word about necromancers having confusion or anything like that… You know… Similar to how Spiteful Spirit actually worked in GW1…. That build defining skills thats loved by GW1 necros everywhere… Nuh… never going to happen.
lily lich is a spectral now so u can increase its duration by 50% to 22.5 seconds. thats why it was nerfed
Fair enough. XD
I still feel the same way about it. I’m not a fan of just auto attacking for days on end. I’d like to actually use my other skills.
Its hard to say how good this will actually be for us at this time. Some of it looks really good while other changes makes me scratch my head wondering why they would do that at all. Still no real access to stability or resistance which even with some of these changes we need both of those really bad. So we still wont be that great in PvE.
Why the skill tip for Signet of Vampirism? Why only that one? did they forget the others? Honestly they just need to give us access to our utility while in death shroud already.
Another change is that Lich Form had its duration nerfed again. Why? NO ONE USES THAT SKILL FOR ANYTHING BUT IT’S AUTO! I’m so sick of auto attacking on a necromancer. I’d honestly not care at all if they removed and replaced Lich form. And plague for that matter. They’re not interesting skills. Not fun to use either.
Terror being dropped down to master is nice with Lingering Curse sticking at 100% duration. This will be nice for terrormancers everywhere. The sad part is the choice of path of corruption though. Maybe you’ll be able to make up for it with Spiteful Spirit???? Maybe. Its more reliable.
There is still so much work that needs to be done for us and this really only scratches the surface of what we need. Overall, I like it. Even with my criticism its overall good for us.
EDIT: Nevermind I was mistaken about a few things here. The Active of Vampiric signet, not the passive like I thought. Also Anet said something about a vampiric aura. Was that Vampiric Presense what they were talking about? Because thats not an aura.. Not what I thought at least.. Oh well, I’d still like to see an actual aura in the future. That will be fine for now. maybe, it honestly depends on its scaling.
(edited by Lily.1935)
Zerker is fine. But wait for a bit before building ascended armor. Things might change enough that pure zerker wont be ideal. There is the possibility that Valkyrie will be a great option for reaper from what it looks like. Though that does pigeonholed you into very specific trait lines with little freedom for choice. Zerker gives you a bit more options to work with something else. Personally, I’m going to build both. But I’m crazy like that.
Spectral walk should grant stability in some way. Either a stab each second its active or when activated. Spectral armor should probably be dropped in recharge. Well of power should pulse stability for you and allies. Unholy Sanctuary should give necromancers a break bar. Honestly we shouldn’t be easy to control. We’re way too easy to control at the moment. And considering we’re attrition this is bad design.
With the proposed changes Blood looks like it will be good for self sustain.
It will likely still be utter crap for ally support however.
My hope is that sooner rather then later they come out with a new necro elite spec that focuses on supporting allies with more then just healing.
(you know things like condi cleanse, protection, damage prevention etc.. hopefully even some group fury or might)The question would be what to call it, my vote is with Witchdoctor.
I Vote Ritualist. Its fitting. I’ll still say that. Also the necromancer needs a long ranged specialization after this. They’d probably get torch or something similar.
As a Vampire MM , I totally agree with you. I think that both Vampiric and MM builds should be viable ones and along with the effectiveness of zerger/condi builds.
I definatly don’t think Minion siphoning should be anywhere near player siphoning though. XD
This is going to be a fantasy post. Because the type of build I’m about to present to you is pure fantasy and can only ever exist of Life stealing scales exclusively with healing power.
I’ve had this idea of running a healing necromancer for a while. But the healing output from life stealing is really bad. There is no way around it. Going into the PvP lobby and seeing what the max healing you can get off of it, compared to just going power its a 7 health difference at best. Which is just pitiful. My hope for the future is that arena net increase the healing and damage from life stealing but make it scale exclusively with healing power. I’d like to see a real impact on the damage and healing. With no investment being low, like in the 20s and 30s in damage and at max healing being closer to 200 in damage and healing. Max healing being your primary stat, not secondary.
So if this was to happen I’d end up making an Altruistic Vampire. I had this idea of out going healing getting stronger for allies also buffing out going life stealing. Giving Allies Vampiric aura and buffing it even further to make a unique supportive healerish build we haven’t really seen since GW1.
This is my dream for a vampiric necromancer arena net. I’d love to see something like this. Reward us for using healing power. Reward us for being aggressive.
What do you guys think? would you like to see something like this?
I’d wait until the changes are revealed in full. If the changes to blood are good it might be a good option. Especially if you can give Vampiric Aura to your minions. Or if Parasitic contagion is moved to Blood. Unfortunately Minions are not disposable. I’ve actually thought about a Death Nova build myself. but Minions dying left and right weakens you too much to be worth it.
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
Yes… long durations definitely help a lot against complete immunities.
You don’t seem to understand the implication of getting +100% with just one trait.
It doesn’t make sense in context of the game, the class or even withing the same specialization where it would render Hemophilia useless.
Also, it’s a balancing nightmare, because the trait will be op unless you nerf everything else, but then you destroy all build diversity by making LC mandatory.
You seem to believe that Arena Net are not aware of that interaction in the current game. They are aware of it. They’re not incompetent. More than likely LC will stack 100% condi duration above whatever else there is. Otherwise it doesn’t synergies with most rune sets, a couple other traits including one from the reaper or a few sigils. It would limit your options if it was the way you and many others believe it will work. From a design stand point it would be a terrible idea if it didn’t stack with them above the 100% limit. Which is why I don’t believe they’re doing what you and many others believe they’re doing.
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
If those become a problem then balance the weapon out to counter it instead of using a single trait to fix a useless weapon. Trait is there to make things work better or customize it, but not to fix thing by doubling its power
Scepter is great. I use it all the time. Its a fun weapon to use with good tech. Its 3 skills is lacking but everything else about it is solid. Honestly, I feel people are crying wolf for nothing. Especially seeing as its not that big of an increase compared to what we are already losing.
If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
If that is true then Lingering Curse would be even more broken.
Barely anyone here is even considering how terrible 100% would be for the class. Every skill and trait would have to be balanced with the possibility of just doubling everything with this trait. And redundancy with other traits or gear aside, if this really would allow you to exceed the 100% cap then it’s actually even worse. We’d end up with a class that is completely crippled unless you run scepter + LC.
Seriously, if Lingering Curse actually goes live with 100% condi duration it would be the worst thing that ever happened necros. So, no thanks to that.
And to everyone who’s crying about other classes getting more than us: that’s just not true. And even if it was, the solution to that can’t be to simply dump a truck load of condi duration into a single trait.
Except you forget about the expansion of condi cleansing and resistance giving total immunity to conditions. That 100% duration is good, but not broken.
Arena net has already thought about your concerns. If there is a cap on duration than Lingering curse wont count toward that cap. its as simple as that.
Also, for those who think its too good. its not. Look at some other traits and compare them with the necromancer. Guardian gets a 33% burn damage boost, Mesmer gets double torment damage while foes are moving, ranger gets a poison damage boost. Not to mention warrior. You compare the current state of necromancer condi builds with the current state of other professions we are severally lacking. We’re slower to build up than anyone else. Our only real advantage is variety of conditions not over all damage. We are lacking. Seriously lacking. Even after the changes we are lacking. We need something more than just this to give us a real oomph on our builds. Our Valn stacking might be enough. But I’m skeptical of that as well.
This is going to be a quick post because there really isn’t too much to discuss on this topic, but I feel like a change needs to happen to this weapon. Now it isn’t a nerf or changing the weapon’s function at all just just something that it should have. The Offhand dagger is the only one of the necromancer’s weapons that doesn’t have a life force generating skill. Access to life force has been a thorn in the condimancer’s side through out the entire profession’s life. And part of that reason is most condimancers have less access to life force skills than their power counterpart.
Now I know that their are some big changes coming that could very well make Focus a viable option for a condimancer. However I still believe that the offhand dagger needs some way to give life force. My suggestion would be to link it with deathly swarm. Life force for conditions transferred plus the blind it normally gives. Some might say this is makes the skill do allot but in my opinion the skill is still rather slow and still relies on being aggressive to fuel your defenses.
Its a minor change but it’d at least be something.
So the reason is because as far as the game is concerned your signets aren’t equipped while you are in DS. Its an issue of coding, probably left over from when DS was a downed state. Not exactly a “good” reason, more a holdover of bad coding decisions earlier in game design that needs to be fixed but hasn’t been.
I think we’re finally getting through to the Devs actually. I’m starting to get a bit hopeful though i don’t see them directly addressing many of our other issues for at least half a year after the release of HoT. The reason I say half a year because this is when I expect them to release new Elite specializations. This is just my personal hypothesis. What might happen is the passives might trigger when we enter death shroud and eventually fade if we are in DS too long. This is what I see as the most likely as a quick fix but I don’t see this as a solution to our utility problem in DS.
That is extremely optimistic for new elites. Given the reveal times and that a large portion will still be playing around with the HoT stuff and that balancing will likely be still ongoing, i wouldnt expect any new elites for maybe 18 months at least. Or with a new expac.
The problem with the time scale you’re presenting is how well Guild Wars 2 is doing right now. People are getting rather bored. And interest in the game has dropped dramatically since its release. I can’t convince people to come back or to even look at the game at the moment. If we get something then have nothing for a year and a half we have a major problem here. Because the second group of specializations are most likely going to be released before a second expansion. Its possible they’ll release it with the second expansion but even then we have an issue with player interest. The HoT expansion isn’t generating the interest the game needs at the moment. And People are also getting rather tired of Arena net’s “When its ready” attitude as well.
Over all the new system actually offers the devs more control over what players can do. So balance should be easier in theory. Ultimately though. None of us know what they’re thinking. I don’t think we’ll have to wait a year and a half for a second elite specialization though.
2.5s cast would make Dagger 2 fine, most likely. Its numbers are pretty good, just takes too long.
I agree. I don’t think the skill needs to be changed all that much either. Just a bit quicker cast time is all. Same damage same healing, just shorter cast.
Foot in the grave is really powerful. Why don’t you think its worth a grandmaster spot? Makes sense to me. Its an awesome trait. Maybe Up the number of Stab it gives but beyond that it doesn’t need a whole bunch of work.
Terror is actually fairly weak as a grandmaster And I am of the personal opinion that it needs to be buffed. I mentioned fusing Master of Terror with terror to really give it some oomph as a grandmaster. And or maybe modifying its damage a bit. But beyond that it doesn’t need much work.
Lingering Curse should stay were it is as it is. Its a perfectly fine grandmaster and it would be a major loss to condition builds to drop that down a tier. Even if it was kept as is it shouldn’t compete with path of corruption.
Parasitic contagion should just be removed. Its not a good trait. If its moved to blood.. Fine.. but otherwise I don’t want to see it in the patch notes.
Personally, I just feel like FitG and Vital Persistence would make better minors since they’re so commonly used and frankly, VP very often out-shines any other choice. Plus they directly have to do with DS which is what the entire line is about, so I just think they’d make more sense as Minors (maybe without the stability on fitg as a minor??).
That’s always sort of been my thing. I don’t really want more baseline necessarily, but I think the minors should very strongly reflect what the tree is based around.
The minors we have in Soul reaping we have now are pretty good actually. And Vital Persistence is being fused with Path of Midnight which makes it pretty good. Honestly even if we get good Stability application(A tall order I know) having a enter DS that stun breaks and gives a couple of stacks of stab will be great as a GM. Having defensive Grand Masters are just as important as offensive or supportive Grandmansters.
Foot in the grave is really powerful. Why don’t you think its worth a grandmaster spot? Makes sense to me. Its an awesome trait. Maybe Up the number of Stab it gives but beyond that it doesn’t need a whole bunch of work.
Terror is actually fairly weak as a grandmaster And I am of the personal opinion that it needs to be buffed. I mentioned fusing Master of Terror with terror to really give it some oomph as a grandmaster. And or maybe modifying its damage a bit. But beyond that it doesn’t need much work.
Lingering Curse should stay were it is as it is. Its a perfectly fine grandmaster and it would be a major loss to condition builds to drop that down a tier. Even if it was kept as is it shouldn’t compete with path of corruption.
Parasitic contagion should just be removed. Its not a good trait. If its moved to blood.. Fine.. but otherwise I don’t want to see it in the patch notes.
I’ve been thinking about the reaper’s greatsword and the Spite specialization allot lately. And although I don’t think spite is perfect by any means I’m really liking the idea of an Executioner style of gameplay for the necromancer. Getting boosts against foes below 50% or below 25% isn’t a new concept in the game but being especially good at it is kinda something I’d like to see more of. I especially like Deathly Chills as I am a Condimancer by heart and would love to see more of this concept in condition builds as well. Not just with out elite specialization.
Another thing I’d like to see is more traits that function outside of Death Shroud but get stronger while in death shroud. Much like Relentless pursuit and and Deathly strength. Though more like relentless pursuit and less like Deathly strength. Rewarding us for being in Death shroud but not making the traits useless outside of it. I love Death perception as much as the next necro and I don’t want it to change. But I’d like to see more of a mix of these kind of traits in the game.
The update is coming soon and I’m sure a few of us are biting our nails hoping arena net gives us something really good. What do you hope to see more of?
I’m actually really excited to try condi reaper. I assume the best trait options would be to run standard terrormancer in curses, Master of Terror and Dhuumfire in Soul Reaping (I really wish that Vital persistence + Path of Midnight was still adept), and Chill Damage in Reaper. The AoE Fear may seem a little weaker than the single-target Death Shroud fear, but this actually allows reaper to further pressure foes who are stealthed, as well as doubling as a stability for the heavy cc builds, like hammer warrior, who can potentially wreck a necromancer, as well as applying chill and chill damage due to reaper traits. Dhuumfire on reaper shroud auto is an amazing source of damage that turns reaper shroud into an amazing source of pressure, and Reaper Shroud might have just enough power damage to break the Diamond Skin eles who will become far more common when choosing earth means picking a grandmaster for them.
Yeah its going to be really exciting. Still the 100% condition duration is really good. You see that a 2 second? 1 second? I can’t tell with the way its worded. It makes a big difference. But you can run full into the fear duration and get 150% duration fear. You sacrifice the damage from terror, sure But thats a worth while trade off in my opinion because of the up time. Also, Lingering curse in the past didn’t count toward your total 100% possible duration. So having this with master of terror should give you a 150% before runes and sigils. Throw that in and your condi duration for whatever you choose could be quite impressive. A crazy idea might be to run Runes of the Necromancer and get 170% fear duration. Not the best suggestion but its still fun to think about. I think Runes of the Nightmare will still be the best option. But I like the idea of using fear to control your foe and not as a source of damage to have long periods of locked down foes sounds like a real option to me. Making it harder for them to defend against you sounds like it could be quite viable.
I’ve even thought about a crazy idea of running Lingering curse in a power build. Which I will test because I actually like the possibility of running a more fear control build.
As it is right now, Lingering Curses raises the base duration from scepter skills by around 33%. Blood Curse get 5s -> 7s base duration. After that we can add up to 100% duration. So that is a max 14s bleed. With the upcoming changes LC just gives us base condition duration for all conditions (not only scepter skills) so 5s -> 10s max.
Lingering Curses won’t go any longer over the 100%. So for scepter skills this actually is a nerf.
You can’t add over 100% duration on any condition no longer, so 150% or 170% fear duration is not possible sadly.
There is a major problem with your theory. If you take Lingering curse you’re automatically getting 120% bleed duration without any investment into gear. If you’re correct then that would mean that the 20% duration wouldn’t be added over the 100% which would be a really really bad design choice. At the moment the 33% from Lingering curse on scepter skills isn’t counted towards the 100%. So you can get 133% condition duration with scepter skills without a problem. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that the 100% condition duration from Lingering curse will not count toward the total you can get. Or it will show up and fudge the normal rule a bit. Because otherwise you end up with redundancy in both curse and reaper. Which is a terrible design choice and arena net isn’t incompetent.
It is much better that we get access to our actual normal utilities while in DS. It lessens the worry of power creep due to so many new things being introduced to the game, and it makes DS feel like less of a “press this button to play a different class” and more like its actually a part of your build.
I would actually prefer to have this, though I’d still really like an invulnerability skill somewhere.
Personally, I don’t think we need Invulnerability. A way to break focus fire is important but that isn’t the only solution. Right now their is no risk to targeting us and that doesn’t change with the reaper. As cool as the reaper is. With some way to prevent projectiles and giving us Resistance will force most foes to have to get close to us in order to try and focus us down. Which gives them a way to play around us without just being invulnerable which wouldn’t provide a lot of play or counter play. Professions with that ability generally have to sacrifice something in order to get that. What can we sacrifice? our life force bar? Thats quite a tall sacrifice for a few seconds of invulnerability. What about going the mesmer rout with it and sacrificing summons? Well, minions aren’t as disposable as clones and it seems like it would be harmful in the long run. We could have partial invulnerability like the warrior but thats kinda what death shroud does already, only instead of a time its a bar that slowly gets less effective as time passes.
sorry that was a bit of a rant.