No… nerfing our weapon sets just because other other weapons sets got nerfed doesn’t add up.
YB will do what it always does…throw matches for a few weeks until they are at the bottom of the tiers, then do their blob thing where they send the entire zerg after 1 person for the next few weeks like always.
YB has never thrown matches until they’re at the bottom of the tiers. ‘Never’ seems far removed from ‘always’. Don’t let facts stand in the way of your narrative though.
Sorry, was basing this off of people in Yaks who told me on weeks when Yak’s was doing particularly bad is that they would throw the week so that they didn’t go up in tier…that way they could continue to own the servers below them.
Is this somekind of a bad joke or something?
Thief shreads almost any class to bits in a few secs JUST by autoattacking.
#noskillneeded
Only if the are standing still and don’t have invuln.
Since patch game client has been crashing due to unexpected error… freezes up the entire computer, have to restart.
Has anyone found a decent Mesmer counter since the latest patch?
YB will do what it always does…throw matches for a few weeks until they are at the bottom of the tiers, then do their blob thing where they send the entire zerg after 1 person for the next few weeks like always.
Yes my Thief is really struggling in WvW now. My Unloads only do 12-13K each against other squishes. My AoE damage with an evade skill, Vault, only seems to do 14K damage. My dagger auto-attack chain only does 7K damage in around 1.5 seconds. My unblockable distance closer, Shadow Shot, does just 6K per use. It’s a good thing that I can’t use these skills more than once in quick succession!
Also my dodge rolls seem to do just 5K AoE and my Impairing Daggers with Mug combo only seems to do 8K damage as an opener – it’s horrible. Also, my Basilisk that I was already using also happens to be applied to people around me with absolutely no investment. I can also chain multiple dodge sources with a bit of stealth to exit almost any encounter. It’s absolutely miserable and impossible to play!
This sarcasm is killing me, stop!
Sorry I had a whole weekend where I couldn’t be sarcastic to anyone around me, so I just had to let it out in this post.
On a non-sarcastic note, I’m curious as to what kind of build you’re running, as running a glassy dps build the only time I’m pulling numbers around 10k is if I get a backstab in on a tower supervisor with several stacks of might.
Continuing, for necros it depends on their build… for minion masters interrupts have been helpful, but if they’re not running minions usually condi the crap out of them. I don’t encounter many engi’s lately, and don’t really have a counter for them worked out. Keep in mind that with all of this, at best the odds are typically against you.
Still working on new builds since latest patch. So far for warriors I suggest condi (p/p usually). Keep your distance as they are likely to pop invuln and then start swinging their hammer to one shot you. For ranger/druids, interrupts and condi cleanse… thief isn’t the best at condi clear, so dodge, get up in their space, utilize bandits defense when they inevitably barrage you, and continue with interrupts and punching (d/p). Kinda two different builds for each of those classes… in a match up when you get countered, you’ll get countered HARD, and there’s no real use in changing your build between matches as the next match you’re just as likely to be against the opposite side of the spectrum again where you have a moderate chance. Particularly against rangers and ele’s if you’re noticing that you can beat the tar out of them without it denting them, just walk away as they’ve likely got a bunker build that you’re not going to be able to solo and will likely end in a stand off or a dead thief if you slip up at all. Go plus 1 a fight then that second person should be a help to take down the problematic one. Also against ele in particular, use the steal skill you get from them to slow their cooldowns, it looks like an icicle. I’d suggest the physical interrupt dagger skill if you were running daredevil, except it’s incredibly unreliable so you’re better of using skill 4 on dagger/pistol. Combine that with trait line 3 in the second column of daredevil to have your interrupts do some damage. For rev make sure you have bandit’s defense going into the fight, as they’re going do unrelenting/prevalent strike or whatever that will track you through shadowstep and stealth (though it’s not supposed to on stealth anymore…but it does lol) After their assault ends, DON’T use the second half of bandit’s defense as 99.9 percent of the time it has no effect on them. Interrupts again are helpful, d/p for the backstab. On mesmers, unless you can identify the spammer behind the mask, stealth out and avoid. Still working on how to counter them since latest patch. If they get a condi-shatter on you you’re likely insta-downed, so try to keep distance. I’ve been trying to keep my distance with my bow until I’m sure which one needs punched then in and back out quickly. If you’ve got a dragonhunter in match, be aware that pretty much any point that’s unattended is going to have their trap on it… dodge through the point and pop bandits defense/shadow step out to clear… doesn’t always work as sometimes you’ll get stuck anyway. If a dragonhunter is sitting on a point, assume he has traps on top of himself already, and as soon as you trigger the first set he’s going to drop the second set and pull you in so save something to try to get away from that. I need to test condi on them again, as d/p vs them usually is best saved for a 2 on 1 situation where they’re on cooldown.
Also, be aware that thief does have a lot of odd bugs, so even though you’re “evading all attacks” or have stability, etc… doesn’t actually mean you’re evading all attacks, have stability, etc… it just means a guardian hasn’t used a bathroom stopper (chain thing on you) or you haven’t been hit with a hammer.
I don’t see many thieves running d/d anymore… too many classes just have to swing wildly (as most do) to counter it anymore and you have to connect to get your stealth… with the new cooldown, totally not worth it.
As some others have posted, Capricorn is a cool map. It could use some small tweaks… like the secondary exits and a little more space between points. Otherwise liking it so far.
When HoT came out, if you were going to one shot light/medium builds with traps, you’d set all your traps on top of each other and walk away…but in order to get that amount of damage in, you’d need a glass build. Since the patch, I’m noticing that we’re again seeing the one shot uber-trap again after nearly completely disappearing the patch prior. Only now they are much less glassy then they were before.
I’m seeing power shatter in nearly all the Mesmers in pvp, done right it can do 17-20k in one burst. Personally I like the other meta better as it has more evasive skills, when you go into 3-4 matches in an all but 1 of them 4 of the other team and 2 on your team are Mesmer, you’ve found the out of balance class. I haven’t found a good counter for it yet and from conversations with others they haven’t either. It’s the double whammy of damage and conditions that’s out of whack.
This post looks so sad. Basically asking if thieves can get the crumbs that have fallen under table.
“warriors have op 8 inv and that is fine, but can we get just a fraction of that? Just something that makes us at least able to survive that fraction of second longer. Please dont get mad because i’m asking.”
Sadly it’s true, that’s what we’ve been reduced to.
I do have a Mesmer, I have played my Mesmer… Mesmer is broken. Thanks for playing.
Only flaw in that is that SR is one of the biggest targets you can possibly put on your back. That’s a skill slot that could be used to better keep you alive, because all a warrior has to do while you’re in that ring is do that swing spin thing and you’re both dead and revealed.
Personally, before ANET goes and does some more enormous game-destroying changes, they should take a step back. We need like 6 months of class balancing just in WvW. After that it would be nice to have the desert borderlands back in some form, anything to break up the megazergs. Maybe they could introduce a mechanic that only allows so many people from each side into an objective area? Like no more than 5 or 10 at a time in a camp, 10-20 in a tower, 50 in SMC or keep?
Running into this issue in both pvp and wvw where the stealth skill delay from the most recent patch has been 3 seconds rather than 1… similar to when in WvW where if you get blinded by a camp scout you’re blinded for 3-4 seconds as opposed to just your next attack that would connect.
Imagine if thief blind was like that, nobody would ever hit anything lol. For the stealth delay it’s making stealth useless, as you stealth, but then can’t do anything for the duration of stealth.
The whole game is dying unfortunately. WvW has been the bellwether. In a desperate attempt to save it they rolled back the desert borderlands, and did this server-linking mess because otherwise most of the servers can’t fill a map anymore.
They have been putting out more and more powercreep, and it’s undermining the foundation of the game. That’s being reflected in PvP as well. LFG in both PvP and WvW now only look for “primary” classes… because playing a medium armor class has become a liability.
I know one of the dev’s is very fond of his Mesmer…but in the next balance patch shatter Mesmer needs reigned in.. quite a bit.
Squads is a WvW reference Jana.
Latest update nuked my build. As a thief I’m designed to get in, punch someone in the throat and get out… now it’s more like, run in…fist bump someone, and then get punted out.
Could be he just read a forum that suggested that as a thief if he’s not stealthed as often as he can he’s doing it wrong, and took it to the extreme. Even if he was being a tool… nerf-batting the only thing a thief has going for him because of one dude would be punishment to the majority of players who utilize their skills as intended to try to win the match.
I suggested in another post that perhaps ANET is going about balance patches from the wrong angle. Once a quarter the release these big patches hitting all classes at once, creating new issues, when it may be better to look at a class or two at a time, spend a month making tweaks to bring them in line with the others. Hopefully that way we can lessen the powercreep and get the medium armor classes back in the game (engi is kinda still there but usually squads and pvp groups want “primary classes” which excludes thief, ranger, and usually engi unless you have the perfect build.
Going by the descriptions, I didnt even need to read that OP mains thief/dd.
Because every class except mine is always super OP even though I am super awesome and everyone I meet is a noob and suck, so their classes have to be OP by definition and carry them.
I use my thief more often than I play the other classes… I have logged into my other characters, and in about 2 and a half minutes managed to recreate the other builds I’m seeing and tested them out. Warriors is particularly awful, for that I didn’t even wear armor… still worked.
The most recent balance patch is another nail in the coffin of WvW. While in PvP things are SLIGHTLY (and only slightly) more rounded, WvW is a complete and total mess for the following reasons related to the classes:
Elementalist: average player utilizing full aura build takes over 10 people focusing to down. Recently with a 20 man zerg, another commander actually walked away from a tower because nobody could damage the freaking elementalist beyond a quarter of it’s hp. Seems insane, but is incredibly easy to recreate.
Thief: I’m expecting that next patch they will rename this class to Eunuch. Lowest effective armor by far in the game, lowest effective damage overall (yes staff can hit hard…if it hits, but less frequent and for less effect than other classes) even when running the tankiest possible builds. Thief is designed to get in and out of a fight quickly…high risk, high reward…. only now there is no reward. If you’re getting taken out by a thief in WvW, and you’re not playing a thief, something is wrong with your build. (I’m saying this as someone who mains thief). I’ve run both full condi, and full dps… the class has become completely ineffective.
Mesmer: Condi-shatter Mesmer is the winner of this latest patch. With the possible exception of the aura elementalist, an average player can melt just about anything, oftentimes with only their clones being visible. They’ve also got the toughness now, so if you’re playing this class you’re likely a happy camper after latest patch.
Guardian: Traps are back with an annoying vengeance, without having to sacrifice toughness like when they first debutted. While not as clear a winner as some this patch. Still out of touch in WvW.
Ranger: Another one that I haven’t noticed a huge difference in play. They are still pretty much invincible in an underwater fight because their pet heals faster than 3 people can deal damage, but this patch doesn’t appear to have drastically changed their regular m.o.
Revenant: Broken. It doesn’t seem like they actually improved much of anything with revenant… the things that could use improvement they left untouched… so will be interesting to see next patch.
Warrior- currently gets my vote for most busted class. They’ve been put on scout duty because they can go afk until they hear something on that monitor… by then they’ll be at about 50% health… pop their invuln and walk away. Yet they can still oneshot a thief while they are still running their shield protection skill.
Necromancer: Minion master is insane. That is all.
Overall what all this powercreep (for most classes) has led to are these ridiculous zerg battles and siege humps… where your warriors, ele’s and necro’s can’t really kill each other, if they even fight open field. It’s reducing turnover in a game mode that desperately needs life injected into it. In PvP, people build for the most damage in the shortest period of time, in WvW they build nowadays simply to live as long as possible, damage be kitten ed. Anet would do well to examine some of the game-breaking defenses of most the classes, (and while they are at it, examine the classes that have none) and come out with an update sooner than later. WvW currently has gaping wounds, and those little band-aids that you use on a papercut are not going to help it.
Currently ANET releases a “balance” patch once a quarter that hits all classes at once, which usually results in mild disaster. What if instead, they were to focus on just 1-3 classes a month, spread out over the quarter?
Is it possible that if they did this, they could do smaller, incremental changes either buffing/nerfing to bring them more in line with the other classes while they are static? This way you can alter a variable while having a baseline to compare against. The next month, you change your variable (class). This way, they could potentially avoid over-nerfing or over-buffing a class… if they roll out a change and it’s too much in one direction, they can pull back and approach the issue from a different direction rather than create a mess that will be around for 3 months leading to another nerfbat bonanza.
Would people kick others for not playing a meta build/class?
That’s exactly how this would go. Better option would be to do more incremental balance fixes monthly/ as needed, as opposed to nuking the system every 3 months, constantly favoring the same classes.
Lol… this is cute… rev and mes need several more nerfs… don’t cry though it could be worse, you could play thief. Remember, it’s not a balance update if they didn’t nerf thief.
Why waste your supply on ac’s anymore? you can do more damage from the wall raining ranger or ele aoe.
One suggestion I would make to ANET would be to require more supply to close the walls when downed… currently it’s like 20 or 30 supply. So, half of what it costs for most siege. It’s a wall, not a tiny ac or catapult, up it to 100 for wood, 150 or so for stone, and 200+ for metal to close the wall.
Back up… I’ve catapulted doors down when they are too hot. Ballista on the walls for other siege, few cats, and if they are really persistent a shield generator. Elementalist’s can burn anything built on the walls like butter… necros prevent people from going back. guard your two closest staircases well… and then when you get inside clear siege then have a squad work on lord while the rest focus the other teams ants… then turn full focus on the lord. when lord drops have guardians and necros lock the doors… capped. For a tier 3 I don’t expect to get in on the first push. The other thing I see people forgetting is to cut off their supply.
i think the bell is there to serve as a “lets get this over with” mechanic rather than a come back mechanic.
in the end, the team with more members that are able to kill and survive will win the map.
Eh I disagree… 2 bunker builds, 2 dps, and a float is all you need for this match. Bell is designed to pull people off the points to encourage turnover… but so far hasn’t been a game ender/changer.
When arrow carts are at the gate, hit the walls.
Are you playing thief? Dagger storm and our physical shielding skill have been getting blown through by warriors and jade constructs.
Unfortunately since HoT the high risk more reward style of play has gone the way of the dodo.
Fun fact that I have noticed even commanders dont know – shieldgen not only block projectiles, they make you specifically immune to AC fire. Though I havent tested if the buff extends to other siege.
Also, are US server a match for Rivercart? Record I think I have seen was 9 ACs in T1 SE tower on their border.
That’s incorrect in my experience. Bubble does not block arrows on catapults, and has not blocked ranger arrow storm when using a shield gen. It does work vs. ele fire rain, and treb and mortar fire.
The good:
1) color scheme
The indifferent:
1) cannon thing a bit clunky, feels like playing machine craps in a casino “push the button”/ “ring the bell”. I was actually excited when I first saw the map cause it looked like there were 4 separate points…which would require more rotation and you would have to split up to cover more ground. Sadly it’s just a run to the center for a few seconds deal.
The bad:
1) Map feels like half the size of the others… makes zerg domination easier.
2) Opening exits both go to the same place… why use the side door at all, they’d see you coming anyway if they were spawn camping, and you’d end up in the same place.
Most defensive siege is now completely useless. All they need is one ele to make it hot and it’s game over. You may be able to down (not kill) their thieves before the ele burns the cannon down, but that’s about it.
The pic says it all .
Short answer is…it’s not. Only thing that’s changed is that for low pop servers there is sometimes a wait to get into ebg now.
I’ve played against both… was on blackgate for a bit but it’s a bit too acidic for me… I like the friendlier servers. AC’s don’t do as much as meteor shower anymore. You’d need several to match it. Now, it would help if catapults bubble skill would block arrow fire too, but one thing at a time.
Game is currently too unbalanced for “good fights”. Current state comes down to who has more of the top 3 meta builds for Guard, Necro, and Revenant. Throw in a Mesmer or two and an elementalist to clear siege…done.
I’m curious if I’ll see more thieves in zergs – I somehow guess I won’t. I’m usually the only one in my zerg.
But then again, thief got nerfed heavily with this patch and I don’t really feel like logging in anymore.
In the end; Venoms being baselines helps mostly PvE players who think they need venomshare in raids – I wouldn’t be too afraid of it in wvw – because a) thief still is dead with one hit (ask a hammer rev to come and focus any enemy thief) and b) all venoms were nerfed heavily with this patch.
I would be surprised if anything would happen at all, it’s like the “Oh noz thief auto attack got buffed, now thief completely OP” everybody was running thief for a week – I haven’t seen many since.Interesting that they would think that they need venom share in raids… most raids won’t allow thieves even if they are running venoms because thieves in raids are absolutely useless.
Basi venom shared baseline and increased to a 1.5s stun does a lot to break bars and thief has had competitive DPS just less support than the ele. I never turned away a good thief from raids because thief, however I would politely ask if they could bring ele to bosses that just sit there and have a hit box bigger than the moon like gorseval. The heal venom is pretty decent too, if it was 30s CD it would be a great raid heal imo as it is ~5k for allies and ~9k for thief.
As for WvW, depends how long it takes pug blobs to realise they can have a thief or two with necros and lock down other pug blobs easily. Considering I’ve been seeing more condi thieves lately it’s only a matter of 1 utility switch and you don’t even have to change anything else.
Can’t speak for raids, as I’ve yet to complete one. Been told I’m good enough, just not allowed in the raid because I should “either kill myself or roll a revenant”.
As for WvW… necros completely invalidate the use of thieves…. you get the crowd control and slowing on a larger scale, with more damage and survivability. Same for the other classes. I tend to command on my thief, and the only reason that works is because everyone targets the guardians thinking that one of them is commanding… I’m low priority because honestly a light breeze will knock over the best thieves. (and send them into the next county). As for condi’s…the only class they are effective against especially since the latest nerf, is other thieves…we’re the only ones with pretty much no real condi cleanse. If you find a thief that can clear condi’s quickly enough, you don’t worry about him because that tells you they can’t dish out damage.
I mean look at the number of classes that are accepted for wvw already, they’re mostly exclusive to just guardians, eles, necros, mesmers, 1-2 warriors, and revenants. Medium classes are usually tossed to the side and left to rot.
It would be great if we could use venomshare thieves and invoke other guilds to do so. It’s really a shame that people have such high ego over not putting thieves in the zerg.
No, it’s just that players don’t like crowd control effects, they don’t like to lose control of their characters, whether that’s slow, or chill, or immobilized, or stuns, or taunted, or feared. A great many players hate conditions as well, with venoms you get poison torment, invulnerability, chill, immobilized, stoned. Then combine it with aoe spells like with wells which are already nasty on their own…
Yeah maybe thieves and engineers and rangers have lost a place in the wvw zerg, but that’s because their skills are more solo based, classes like elementalist and guardians and revenants are built to be more group based. That’s what happens when one gets built entirely around stealth, one with half useless offensive kits, and the other with a dumb healing mechanic that people still prefer elementalist over it.
It’s not going to matter much to the groups already running a ton of boons, just another tool for them to wreck groups not so organized.
I’m just waiting for the day conditions finally kill the servers from lag.
Anet has nerfed thieves primary wvw utility of 1v1 roaming. Also, with raiding, if a thief is on your side…they can’t apply conditions to you, just sayin. We don’t have wells and other stuff. Thief was built on stealth, conditions, and speed. Anet has nerfed all of that. Engi’s and ranger’s still dominate in WvW…and with this latest patch Mesmer is going to explode yet again.
Does anyone have a half decent build that’s good against things other than other thieves anymore? Everytime I find a build that gives me like a 50/50 chance of making it through a 1v1, anet nukes it.
Suggestion if you don’t end up completely removing thief from the game in the next round of balancing… not sure if it’s a bug or not, but revenant has a skill, that is a bajillion hits at once, only half of which are needed to down a thief running as tanky as anet will allow (so not at all really). You can’t shadowstep away from it, it’ll travel full distance, can’t bow 5 from it, can’t stealth from it (thought this one was getting fixed). Only chance you have of maybe surviving is the shield skill that thief has… and the other half of the skill goes to waste as rev’s are usually immune to knockdown.
I wouldn’t recommend thief now, especially after the latest patch. Class utility is just, gone really. All the old meta builds are out of date, and I have yet to see a build that’s good against anything other than other thieves in over a year. I think they are slowly trying to eliminate the class altogether, in favor of classes that out-thief a thief, like revenant. Only thing thief still has going for it is steal… of which the only things of minor value you’ll receive with stealing is health if you’ve got it traited, anything that will give you stealth, and the Mesmer potion thing. Basilisk venom has been made absolutely pointless now, same with devourer venom… backstab has been nuked beyond saving, and even our conditions have been nuked which is what anet was trying to push us toward (though very strangely, here… do condi, but we’re not going to nuke anything that applies condi… oy). I’d suggest trying revenant… I’d say slightly slower class, but then again, that’s no longer true. You get heavy armor, speed, and once practiced you can 3 or 4 v 1 fairly easily.
Can we reevaluate having arrow cart damaged nerfed? For the cost and the amount of supply it takes to build they should do more damage than an ele can do with their call down fire trick. A single elementalist is more effective spamming one button than 3 ac’s now.
Today issue has gotten worse… in addition to devourer venom and basilisk venom only working as a color change, in the new area in pve, stability doesn’t work.
Today still having this issue… oftentimes it will turn them gray like they’ve been hit…but they’re still running around.