Like no….seriously……I just want a fun balanced game that I can play pvp in, that’s all I want
The most balanced pvp ive played ever is SWTOR
I played WoW before switching here (I think last year) and WoWs pvp is way less frustrating
Everythings balanced and its based on team play and strategy, face rolling will get you rofl stomped, especially when it comes to rated games where people pvp like its their job
Rn it feels like every class is just broken in some form or fashion and needs a nerf
In WoW there is no “this class counters the class that counters this class” I mean there is, but everyone regardless of their spec can hold their own against another
Necros- Tanky, can dish out ridiculous damage and destroys teams if not pressured (I’m sure most of them would love to trade out damage for mobility, another topic for another day)
Burn/Trap Guards- The good ones will make you question whether or not youre fighting a tank or a guardian in a game, theyre hard to kill and buff themselves in any engagement and makes you pay for dearly for making them do so
Engis- I really….really….really hate kittening engis, have to be the most broken profession rn, and that’s saying a lot since my normal hatred lies for guardians. ive never seen one specific class kill somebody by knocking them on their face repeatedly……if you plan on fighting one you better have stability and quite a few stun breakers
Rangers- I hate this class mainly due to the “I can hit you but you cant hit me” kitten, this is what kittened off a lot of ppl when it came to WoWs ranger class, imo the one here is even worst, they have plenty of snares and can kite you all while busting down your health, but theyre like….the least op profession depending on your build
Mesmers- Great for 1v1’s till they use a shatter…but that’s the thing…..its the shatter that kills you, and they have plenty of shatters waiting for you regardless of if theyre condi or power, one way or another, fighting a good Mesmer is like trying to fight a ghost in a house of mirrors
Warriors- Can be very op and imo is a very under rated class, they can hit ridiculously hard and god forbid one catches a knockback on you cause 9/10, then next time you see your character get up itll be in your teams spawn. They can endure pain and reduce your damage to…..pretty much kitten like an engi…..but worst because theyre more active
Thieves- If any class is risk vs reward it’d be this one, so easily killed by the much more front facing classes like guards, warriors, necros’, mesmers. However when they know what theyre doing regardless of what their traits are, they can send you outside for a smoke to prevent you from breaking your pc, if I had to nickname them, id call them living shadows
Every class right now is just over the top in some form or fashion and I feel like things need to be toned down
I already stated my idea for it so I’m not going to retype it, but I do believe that things are just ridiculous
You either die way too fast, do too little damage, or youre forced to join the rest of us and make cheesy as hell builds cause there is no build diversity and even with the new traits coming theres going to be an even bigger lack of diversity.
Theyre turning down the pressure from condi, I for one am not happy about it (no I don’t rely on it that much, I only have like 2 chars out of 5 that run condi so don’t go there)
As gamers we all know, that when you take away 1 toy, we find another
So as Anet may be fixing condi, what about cc and power crit builds? Is Anet going to implement something else to make up for it?
Turning down condi just gives way for builds that are just as broken
I’m partly ranting at this point so yeah
TL:DR actually balance the game Anet, forget the next expansion id rather be able to go into pvp and not rage because I feel that I lost due to being punished for trying to make something new instead of going with whatever build is op atm
I agree with everyone as I play condi thief and ill be honest, when I play against a team that doesn’t run anti condi traits, I feel bad cause they never stand a chance, ive literally broken 500k+ damage with 19 kills (should’ve been 20 but the finisher didn’t go through before the match closed)
I went back to power thief and ran into a condi guard, who seemed to have enough boons to make Deified jealous, I literally wasn’t able to even +1 him just cause of all the craziness going on caused by him and him alone
When I’m on my necros before heading mid after respawning to rejoin the fight ill sit there and scope things out for a few seconds….half the time I space out cause I focus too hard trying to identify who is who and what is what
However, its not an easy issue to fix because doing so would ruin a few builds for certain professions, necros more than any but Mesmer and engi would be following close behind
I think ranked shouldn’t be based on your wins and losses
Instead I think it should be based on the players skill base
Do they go after objects, are they efficient at staying alive etc
I wouldn’t say base it off of top stat rewards because that can screw some people over since everyone cant get a top stat reward even though everyone could’ve equally contributed to winning
I don’t like the idea of it being based off wins and losses cause as we all know match making is trash asf and I don’t think players should be restricted because they had bad teams
You can only control what you do, you cant control johnny 2×4 who fights off point and dies every 5 secs after respawn
…….Oh wait……youre serious
Burn guard=OP Broken
Trap Guard= OP Broken
Yeah no
people are still complaining about endure pain? & on condi builds too?
wow man. just wow.
I’m not complaining about endure pain at all
The only thing I want nerfed is cc since I hate how easy it is for ppl to spam it and kill you
However I am complaining about the witch hunt for thieves which like I said total kitten
I’ve been seeing a lot of posts kittening about condi thief
I co main condi thief and after the last few days ive pvped, yeah condi thief is the last build that’s the issue
I started using condi thief a little while before it became viral so I have experience with it and know what I’m doing
Usually, theres nothing my thief cant take down, ive killed guardians, warriors, mesmers, etc and I mean to the extent where id camp far and the other team would have to zerg it to take it back
I’ve fought bunker engis that did nothing but knock me back and heal repeatedly
Ive fought kittening trap and burn guards that ended me in a matter of seconds (these are the kittening worst, I just played against one in beta and lost every encounter but the +1 fight, each time I tried to fight her she’d pull and push me till I was dead which didn’t take long, and no I couldn’t even run away from her)
Ive fought mesmers that would condi bomb tf out of me and disappear in the blink of an eye just to repeat the process
Ive fought necros’ that have never ending shrouds
Don’t even get me started on endure pain warriors
Nothing in this game is op or broken outside of cc which imo needs to be fixed
I don’t lose often on my thief, but when I do it just seems to be a case of “they know what to do to wear me down”
So my consensus is that, most of the people making posts about condi thief, are only kittening about it cause they don’t know what theyre doing
The only classes that are especially weak to condi thief (from my experience) are rangers, revs, and clueless necros players
I’m just tired of kitten witch hunts.
Everyones quick to point a finger at thieves, yet no one says anything about the ridiculous bs builds I talked about above
TL:DR instead of crying nerf everytime you get owned and don’t understand why, learn from it and see what you did wrong, more than likely you were your own fault
Stop trying to nerf something just cause you don’t like fighting it, I hate fighting condi mesmers, but you don’t see me asking for them to get nerfed now do you?
I still use power and “zerk” builds
Ive seen many top damage/kills stats and on top of that for most of the match I see my name “on a rampage” quite often
Usually unless my team just got screwed over by matchmaking that’s what happens whether or not ppl are running condi or not which……is actually easy to counter
Ive beaten condi builds on my Mesmer, thief, rev, and my necros
You can counter condi
its fun to play but I wouldn’t try getting serious about it
Plus you have all the issues with pvp that’s developed over time
I hop on and pvp everyday, except I’m usually just screwing around having fun, too many exploits and the communities too toxic to be serious about it
Good luck and I hope all goes well
Necro is fairly easy to kite and CC till dead though and if you don’t have shroud you’re killed a lot easier. Necro has 2 evades and maybe 2 stunbreaks, burn them and they die and ofc moa when they go DS means they die, alternatively you can kite the DS if it’s reaper or go ham if it’s normal shroud.
I do agree that necro spams out conditions like crazy but weakness is one of their primary forms of defence and they have quite a lot of ways to be dealt with, especially when not supported properly.
That is true, but the same can be said for condi thieves.
In order for a condi thief build to seem “broken” a lot and I mean a lot of what thieves usually need to use to their advantage must be sacrificed, the blinds, the dazes, the interrupts, the loads of stealth, the mobility
All or at least the majority of all that must be given up
Condi thieves have a much harder time breaking away and disengaging fights, they lack stealth, stability is also little to none so dh guards are really kamikaze runs then, lastly they burn through way more initiative and endurance more so than other thieves so there is little to no room for error especially against classes like guardians, warriors, eles, and engis
one little mistake and that’s it, its back to the respawn screen they go
The difference is a condi thief has much more active defence than a necro which has a very clear and obvious weakness. With bandits defence trained to 12s cool down and the ability to regain dodges every 20/30s, decent to good condition cleanse and quite a few stun breaks it leaves many saying what is its weakness?
As I say a necro you know if it’s got low life force it’s a much easier kill, it’s easier to kite, easier to CC and lock down. There’s also the added bonus of most classes can simply leave and know the necro can’t really chase them too much.
I co main necros and youre not wrong there, but an “op” condi build for a thief isn’t going to have stun breaks
Condi thief is more about in fight mobility and confusion
Kind of like how Mesmer works except thieves don’t have clones
Outside of combat condi thieves are easy targets and can be burst down like everyone else
D/d thieves I will give you the benefit of the doubt since they focus more on invis and bleed evades
yes free stun breaks and free stability, limited ofc yet available to everyone
So everyone has the exact same two chances get out of cc
Diminishing returns on cc timer as well to stop cc chains
You can face roll d/p more and get away with it
No s/d condi is absolutely the safest & most faceroll build to play on thief currently.
You said it yourself, “I suck at d/p”
But you succeed at s/d condi? Wonder why? Because its infinitely easier playing that than meta d/p (which is arguably the highest skill floor/ceiling class/build to play atm).
You can down ppl with just steal and dodge from 100-0 if they have no healing/clears. It’s instant, basically can’t be dodged, and you can do it by smashing your face on ur keyboard not looking at the screen. Kicker is if they don’t clear it you are going to do like 1/3rd of their life passively.
If you need to burst the burst is stupid damage that is easy as pie to do. 2, V, F1, V, 2 to gtfo of danger, and watch the poor soul burn to the ground.
Soooo it took 0 skill for me to decimate a bunker ele, a bunker rev, or a guardian solo?
Are you sure about that?
Yeah I sucked at d/p thief, that’s why I went condi. I also started using my condi thief build before everyone else picked up on it, its a build I’m good at and I can work with
I suck with condi necros, yet if no one keeps pressure up on me I can rip entire teams apart with my power necros
It’s not that its easy or face roll, its just a build I’m good at
No condi thief is going to take down a kitten bunker ele especially by themselves by face rolling s/d
That takes more know how than anything, especially when their build is made to counter condi………..
Conclusion : bring back clonespammer to mesmer …
(when you see that today, every class has good or strong effects on dodge.)
#this is a message from a mesmer gameplay diversity activist.
Ive lost to more mesmers than I can count……mesmers don’t need a buff
If you lost to a condi thief as a Mesmer, that’s more of your fault than anything
Since everyone wants to talk about Thieves
What about trap guardians or condi guardians, ive seen ridiculous burn numbers come from them
Or engis better yet, no one says kitten about how broken they are
Or better yet condi Mesmer, yeah, the most annoying class spreading condis left and right and downing you in an instant while laughing in your face cause you just wasted all your offensive and defensive cd’s as theyre finishing you isn’t a problem or anything
Ill never understand it
One profession does it, no one cares. Thief does it, now its an issue
foh
Spvp has a lot of issues. Of course it’s not just condi thieves. But this thread is about condi thieves. There always other threads on all the other builds/classes you posted. But yeah, I agree with you. A lot of builds need to be toned down, but this is thread is about thieves. lets not derail it.
that is true but look at how many posts are complaining about thieves then compare it to every other class
Every day without fail theres a post griping about a thief build, yet other more cancerous builds for other classes exist
I’d rather derail it cause its total bull and I’m tired of the biased which hunt
Every other class gets a condi build, almost no one bats an eye
Thief gets a condi build and everyone races to the forums to scream nerf
Just how tf is that fair?
Some of my friends and I were just talking about this, I hate having to sit here and take pics, screen shots, and writing them down
Stability was so broken it sidelined a whole category of Mesmer builds. ( Interrupt )
Immunity and blocks are still broken. The extreme cc was an attempt to balance against the extreme defense.
Sadly, I see the situation see sawing back and forth for quite some time before it is resolved. Perhaps it never will be.
Diminishing returns like what WoW has, tweaks to some cc abilities, immunity after being hit by so much cc, reduced damage, and not having to change your build to include stability (yet again like how wow has trinkets)
Would literally fix the issue.
That way when a Mesmer hits you with a gravity well, not only will you be able to break out of it, but the next cc ability that hits you might not even effect you which will defeat cc chaining
Not having to trait for stability gives you more freedom as I believe that no game should force you to choose something like that just to be able to survive
Since everyone wants to talk about Thieves
What about trap guardians or condi guardians, ive seen ridiculous burn numbers come from them
Or engis better yet, no one says kitten about how broken they are
Or better yet condi Mesmer, yeah, the most annoying class spreading condis left and right and downing you in an instant while laughing in your face cause you just wasted all your offensive and defensive cd’s as theyre finishing you isn’t a problem or anything
Ill never understand it
One profession does it, no one cares. Thief does it, now its an issue
foh
Lulz he Dodge only give at max 4 by itself and that’s if you are directly under it or run through the highly visible caltrops lulz #witchhuntisstrong.
Exactly, my necros is even worst with condis yet, everyones kittening about thiefs
Lets see, I use scepter and dagger so that’s already bleed procs right there, then I give myself bleeding, poisoning, fumble etc, from the same skill that gives you the exact same conditions
Then I transfer said condition to you to stack them even higher (theyre already high before I do that most of the time)
Then of course as I’m spamming 1 each time it crits that’s more bleed stacks
Then I have it set to where chill adds even more bleed stacks
The entire time you fight me youre constantly dealing with back to back, bleeds, fumbles, weakness, poison, chill, torment, cripple
Condi necros can literally condi bomb you repeatedly till your dead and no one bats an eye
Teefs get a condi build that barely can be considered “condi bombing” and everyone loses their minds
GG community, gg
Necro is fairly easy to kite and CC till dead though and if you don’t have shroud you’re killed a lot easier. Necro has 2 evades and maybe 2 stunbreaks, burn them and they die and ofc moa when they go DS means they die, alternatively you can kite the DS if it’s reaper or go ham if it’s normal shroud.
I do agree that necro spams out conditions like crazy but weakness is one of their primary forms of defence and they have quite a lot of ways to be dealt with, especially when not supported properly.
That is true, but the same can be said for condi thieves.
In order for a condi thief build to seem “broken” a lot and I mean a lot of what thieves usually need to use to their advantage must be sacrificed, the blinds, the dazes, the interrupts, the loads of stealth, the mobility
All or at least the majority of all that must be given up
Condi thieves have a much harder time breaking away and disengaging fights, they lack stealth, stability is also little to none so dh guards are really kamikaze runs then, lastly they burn through way more initiative and endurance more so than other thieves so there is little to no room for error especially against classes like guardians, warriors, eles, and engis
one little mistake and that’s it, its back to the respawn screen they go
Condi thief has higher dps than condi necro. The only reason condi necro is considered good is because of the boon hate.
Also necromancers have no mobility and can’t attack you while evading.
I highly disagree, when I start off my rotation on my condi necros it not only gives you bleeding, but it also gives me might stacks, condi thieves don’t focus on might
So not only did just throw possibly 15-20 stacks of condis at you ( that numbers pretty low tbh, cause my bleed stacks can get atrocious) but theres also 10+ stacks of might effecting them boosting their damage even further
God forbid you decide to stand in my pl well like you did that caltrop and I’m in reaper spinning to win cause then youre going to get pulsed down since pl is gonna refresh the stacks on you and add to them
Then I’m in shroud using my 4, youre not only taking crit hits, I’m applying poison stacks to you as well as more bleed stacks due to a passive scepter trait and another in the reaper trait
Condi thief may be able to handle more classes by itself
But condi thief cannot out damage a condi necros
I think people are too soon to jump to their LTP gun on OP. He’s wrong about only dodging give 5 condis, but he is referring to the following build, which probably has gained popularity lately.
https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_S/D_ConditionAs you see thief can start off with sword 2 then dodge, thus giving 4 unique condis even after immob wears off. The immob from sword 2 is more than enough to secure a caltrop proc. If sigil of fallibility proc that’s 5 unique condi as OP stated. Typical thief will wait for opponent to panic and cleanse before using more deadly steal (with confusion) but ofc if he decides to do it earlier it is possible to get more unique condi. 8 IS an exaggeration though.
As always, these thieves are susceptible to focus fire themselves and their effectiveness really depends on the opening strike. So personally I don’t find them OP or anything.
EDIT: actually forgot lotus poison also gives weakness, but it does have CD.
Since I’m maining thief rn and condi thief to be exact ( I was using it before it became meta, I suck at d/p) and nothing you said is wrong
The second I realize that I’m being focused even the slightest I have two choices
1: I can stand my ground and try and hold up which is extremely difficult with this build
or
2: say kitten that kitten and dip
My builds different but, has a similar flow
Trying to stay and fight is going to get you squished cause you only have 3 dodges (its not even the dodges that’s producing the damage) once those three run out we either try and burn through initiative through evades or waste our heal for me endurance
If anything this is way more balanced than d/p because we have to actually sit there and try to micro manage every little thing we do
You can face roll d/p more and get away with it
Lulz he Dodge only give at max 4 by itself and that’s if you are directly under it or run through the highly visible caltrops lulz #witchhuntisstrong.
Exactly, my necros is even worst with condis yet, everyones kittening about thiefs
Lets see, I use scepter and dagger so that’s already bleed procs right there, then I give myself bleeding, poisoning, fumble etc, from the same skill that gives you the exact same conditions
Then I transfer said condition to you to stack them even higher (theyre already high before I do that most of the time)
Then of course as I’m spamming 1 each time it crits that’s more bleed stacks
Then I have it set to where chill adds even more bleed stacks
The entire time you fight me youre constantly dealing with back to back, bleeds, fumbles, weakness, poison, chill, torment, cripple
Condi necros can literally condi bomb you repeatedly till your dead and no one bats an eye
Teefs get a condi build that barely can be considered “condi bombing” and everyone loses their minds
GG community, gg
only condi thief? All thief builds are op.. anets new golden boys first one was warrior thieves are new generations vetsion 2.
slow cd 3 dodges, rapid dazes, dodge on almost every single attack, insane condi clean, insane dps, stealth, medium armor, huge health pool with amulets, block yup block funny but real, stoning enemies with share, no cd on attacks please dont tell initiative because there is a lot initiative gain-scale traits and signet.
but you should remember this is pve game and anet doesnt care pvp anymore. Because they are too much broke the game.
Every classes have op traits-skills now but thief standing on the top of list with mesmer restorative illusions trait. that trait like a joke, a zombie must have eaten your brain for creating that trait..
Just dont care anything.. Look at the leader board you can see a lot of farmers with 438W 414L or even worst like 203W 217L. Matchmaking like a joke.. Nothing is right in gw2 pvp
Lulz so much lulz when Thieves have been Nerfed the last 3 patches straight so funny, and you list off traits and Utilities that Thievs don’t even use since hey are so so terribly bad… sorry but respectable Thief uses Infiltrators Signet and huge Health pool? Super lulz they are one the 3 classes with the Smallest Health Pool in game. Insane Condi clear? Where is that at? I can think of 4 classes with better Condi clear baked into their Meta builds alone. And initiative Gain traits no thief uses them besides the Two ini on Steal. You act like all other classes don’t take he CD reduction traits.
Ah this is too great.
And@ OP everytime I have played with you which has been a lot the last two weeks (almost every other match) you have been on Your Warrior and Duo Queued with Unholey. So yeah you didn’t make top 10 on the S/D Thief.
i agree lol so much lol. Firstly we never played together i haven’t a warrior my main is engineer and playing with necro or revenant too.
You saying thieves nerfed 3 times but i didnt see any changes about thieves..
Let me tell you on meta builds;
Huge health pool : as you say thief should have smallest health pool in the game. It’s assassin class. Lets see meta build healths
– S/D Marauder : 2029 armor 17245 Health what da small health wow.
– Condi Carrion with traveler rune : 2065 armor 21005 health. this is really low even
lowestAnd here is the condi cleans;
- Signet of Agility : Remove 3 conditions, 30sec cd, gain endurance
– You have 3 dodges, Dash : Remove chill cripple immobile also gain swift too
– Escapist’s Absolution : Remove condition whenever you evade
that means you can clean all your conditions only with dodges and weapon skill evades, you removing 3 more condis too with signet also getting endurance too, i dont wanna talk about stealing but you getting vigor and endurance from it, so it means your dodges never ends.. There is absolutely no way to killing a good or average thief with conditions..About initiative, again from meta;
- Kleptomaniac : 2 initiatives from stealing (every 20secs)
– Preparadness : incrase initiative by 3
just imagine your weapon skills like any other classes. Engi hammer : 1 – 6 -12 – 20 – 24secs. You can spam your skills forever with those dodgesHow about healing?
– Channeled Vigor : Gain %25 endurance and min 16060 or max 21940 heal
– Driven Fortitude : Gain 456 health when you evade attack. Calculate how many dodges and weapon evades do you have.
– Mug : gain 1980 health from stealing.
is this really assassin/thief class?But kk everything is fine.. Thief needs buff
i almost forget. Most hateful things about thief for me all those endless daze, stun, stone hits and blind areas.. You can stay alive only with those annoying skills. Thief has the best offhand weapon skills.
No condi thief uses any of that, if they do then their build isn’t a “condi” build since it would be less than effective
Signet of agility is more of a power crit thief than anything
Endless dazes aren’t really a thing tbh
We burn through initiative fast and if we don’t manage it we can get destroyed easily
Ive had people cut off my channeled vigor to keep me from completely healing more times than I can count
Even with dare devil, we cant dodge that much, I mean hell tbh we only have 1 more dodge than every other class and ours are more specialized…that’s it, once we use those three dodges without vigor we have to wait just like everyone else to dodge again so idk where the endless dodge ideas coming from
Yet again yeah we have medium armor, but do you have any idea how weak we still are? There is a reason why you rarely see a thief who knows what theyre doing trying to 1v1 a guardian, medium armor don’t mean anything due to high burst damage every class is capable of
So just like necros being able to have a high health pool, thief having a high health pool just means that we’re trying to buy ourselves a couple of extra seconds to get out of cc chains which needs to be fixed cause I think losing due to cc spam is kitten, but I digress
Lastly, I kitten on meta thieves all the time. I only ever face competition from other thieves when theyre not running meta
Hell the last time I ran into a meta thief they got completely trashed
If you cant counter meta thief that’s your fault cause you just sat there and listed everything that theyre capable of
That means that you should have a good idea on what theyre going to do next before they do
Evades and dodges are two different things and evades cost quite a bit of initiative so its not something we can just spam
Now try without HoT and Chrono…
I do, on a regular basis. Chrono doesn’t feel good for me. You should hear the kittening I occasionally get playing PU. (Which, let’s face it, is kind of a Mesmer/thief )
Admittedly, I think thieves have a pretty high skill bar too.
It actually does
Well to actually be able to constantly use it properly it is, its just like revs, and ofc mesmers
Anyone can pick it up, doing well with it on a constant basis is another thing
Ive seen ppl in map chat saying “omg thief pvp is so easy lolz”
Yet those are the same people I shut down the entire match on my thief…..yeah….sure…..those 8 deaths were easy for you to get huh?
Careful and whatever you do DO NOT LET THEM STRIKE FIRST
I main a condi thief and that’s the biggest mistake you can make
Also if you know that theres a condi thief on the other team keep your guard up at all times due to s/d being whats mainly used for condi and sword 2 allows us to even pop up through walls, when combined with steal we can also close ridiculous ranges
Stay alert, don’t let us strike first, dodge our evades, and watch out for traps, our traps will really hurt you, like, a quarter or more of your health on its own if you aren’t careful, that’s not including the rest of the condis
Ok since so many people want to hop on thieves with having little to no logic obviously on how it works
What about Trap DH’s and Condi Guards? 10k burning isn’t exactly fair either now is it
What about condi and bunker engis? Ive seen some of them last for ridiculously long times
What about bunker and 1 shot revs?
What about condi and bunker mesmers, condi mesmers are even worst than condi thief
What about condi and bunker ele?
What about zerg warriors?
Not so fun when ppl call out kitten on your class now is it?
Face it, you got kitten on by a condi thief and who knew what they were doing and you didn’t know how to react to it so you got rekt
kittening on the forums and crying that it gets nerfed is just low
I hate to be that guy, but for once, how about you learn how it works first before complaining about it
Cause until I start seeing topics about these other kitten builds for other professions, Idc to here it
So its ok for engis, revs, warriors, guardians, eles, and mesmers to have amazing defenses, but god forbid necros gets one
Yep I’m done here, id just rather not
ppl are already kittening about how it needs to be nerfed rn, please stop
Funny how here people with logic on how things work knows that s/d isn’t op, yet in the other post theres nothing but “it needs to be nerfed its too strong” comments
Most thieves are just extremely bad. It’s an easy thing to say, but seriously just play thief and challenge ones you see in ranked to a 1v1 and watch what happens. That’s discounting the obvious stuff like them fullcapping 90% of the time
If you mean thieves aren’t supposed to fullcap 90% of the time, I just want to stress:
If we don’t fullcap, people start angrily pinging the map and “asking” why we aren’t fullcapping. Even if there’s 2+ enemies on the point. In fact there could literally be a pure trap guardian sitting on the point with traps loaded and people will demand we somehow 1v1 a direct hard counter and cap it since nobody else knows how to exit mid/kill a revenant/disengage/whatever excuse is being used for needing the thief to carry harder.I’m not saying all bad thieves are caused by the community, but if I’m playing wrong, then it’s directly a symptom of the greater community’s idiocy for misleading me and I’m sure I’m not the only thief dealing with this.
Thieves are always wrong, after all.
(As an aside, I’ve watched top tier videos, but top tier strategies really do not seem apply in solo ranked queue, especially not in low gold, where I am…)
^^lol this.
You run decaps, people yell at you for not +1.
You +1, they all leave you facing 2 enemies on your point and yell at you for not decapping.
EVEN IF YOU DECAP ALL match people will still flame you for not decapping which proves my point that majority never look at map. Like ever.
I had teams flaming and yelling at me for not decapping point that was camped by trap guard or a druid all match. They actually expected me to get decap vs a DH. LOOK AT MAP, people!!!!Things like this make me want to record my games just to show what kind of crap you have to put up with as a thief for simply existing.
Lets not mention how you cant pvp as a thief without someone getting on you about decapping or capping
I play my thief sometimes just enjoy fighting for a little bit, I hate it whenever I just want to have fun with my build and I get the “teef tf are you doing fing decap you worthless….”
Like dude this build isn’t even made for decapping, hell you have swiftness 24/7 and move faster why don’t you do it?
Ive ran into a similar situation before
It was on Beta and they had a trap dh that was over watching their home, I got yelled at for not wanting to go on a kamikaze mission, and then when I did go try to decap it (obviously the dh won the fight)
I’ll just write what was said
“thief go kittening decap kitten ”
Me: You want me….a thief…..to go 1v1 a trap dh……are you kittened?
“YOUR JOB IS TO GO DECAP”
Me:……… (in my head I’m like alright fine if it shuts you up cool)
“Really…..really thief……”
Me: Wtf do you want now
“wtf are you doing come to mid”
(as I’m struggling to stay alive while downed)
Me: You just kittened at me for not wanting to 1v1 a dh chilling at far
-Now youre kittening at me for leaving the fight….yeah idgaf anymore
Its actually not op, youre just coming across people who aren’t used to the build so they don’t know how to counter it
Because youre using s/d and not d/d or d/p, you easily manage to confuse tf out of people since they cant come remotely close on guessing youre next move
I’ve fought plenty of ppl even in unranked, who countered my thief with ease
Also just like any other build it has its strengths and weaknesses, mesmers can still wreck you, guardians can still wreck you, eles can still make it seem like your wasting your cds, engis can still counter you
You yourself is also open to condi attacks as well as to have a strong s/d build you have to sacrifice condi removal, you also can barely stealth at will (when I say that I mean you really cant) which leaves you vulnerable to perma stealth and sometimes experienced d/d thieves
Btw that Lotus training isn’t where the damage comes from, its more of a “booster” if anything…..its not the condi dodge that you have to be concerned about…trust me
I’ve been running s/d condi on my thief before it was popular because I hated d/p
Is it amazing yes, is it op, no…no where near as much everyone says it is.
You lose the mobility of a thief as well since all you really have left to flee fights are get away from getting focused is bow 5 and sword 2s return
Yet again I see people blowing something out of proportion
S/d only seems strong because ppl are too busy being followers using meta builds instead of thinking for their selves
My power rev can hit top damage every match….its not a meta build either
Same with my necros who have built for power rn as well
Your best advantage is not just the element of surprise, but also causing confusion amongst your enemy
If I seem really annoyed by this post its cause I am cause all I see are people listing its advantages, but no one said anything about the huge amount of disadvantages that come with it and how easy it can be and has been countered before
Stop saying something is “op” just cause its different
You can dodge obvious setups, or hold your cleanses until they condi-burst. Burn Guard is obvious (torch, fire ring, don’t clump), and Condi Mes as well. Necro can be a bit more icky because of corrupts but try to kite that Shroud.
Sometimes you see a lot of conditions on you but it can be mostly non-damaging conditions or low stacks. It can be tempting to just cleanse immediately but you need to watch for players that count your CD and wait for you to use up your cleanses.
If it’s an outnumbered situation and you feel you might get bombed, it’s okay to leave point, LoS/kite and try not to get hit by conditions.
Condi builds beside meta Condi Mes are fairly squishy and die quickly to focus, so they aren’t perfect.
Exactly what I used to do, id just stack bleed and use the plague signet on them and hope to panic them to cleanse it, the second they did that’s when Id actually condi bomb them
At that point theyre screwed cause my might stacks are already high.
Its all really understanding other classes and how everything works
And like I said, I switched from condi to power just due to the fact that it seemed like everyother spvp team ran a condi cleanse build and this was just recently
So my thoughts were, what do all of these ppl know that OP doesn’t ?
Yet again there are plenty of other classes that’s even worse with this
Eles can set up to literally be kitten near unkillable
Bunker revs are even worst
Then you have bunker guardians
Then you have undying warriors
Its getting to the point to where every other class has some amazing defensive ability that allows them to stay up even longer without taking damage, some of them can even chain all the while dropping you like a fly and some of you have problem with this…seriously……
I have faced countless teams in pvp that almost in an instant turned all of my life force into complete nothing putting me back into my normal health
Youre all looking at this from a sheet of paper perspective
I’m not, I’m basing it on experience
Necros is a focused class, punching bag is what were called for a reason
It depends tbh, I mean its really down to your play style
However
If you know youre gonna have a good enough team to where you can bunker down behind them then I say condi
If not, go for boon ripping power
I used to use condi necros like I already knew tomorrow wouldn’t exist
I switched from condi to power for the sheer fact that ive come across condi cleansing thieves, engis, warriors, and ofc guardians, eles, and revs
It seemed like the more I used it, the more people switched to condi cleansing builds
So I’m not sure wym when you say that those builds are too strong, I used to love nothing more than condi bombing tf out of someone and watching them melt
That is no longer the case so I’m not sure what to tell you
I still prefer a power build espacially with thief and revs the kills are rly fast and the momentum you get is awesome. There are some good versions of it mostly running the following:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBmOD7kjGodTs6Gw2GgeTsgLYQXtAwBI+K2FDjUph2wzC-TZhIABUXGw/rAA3HEgL2fAgHAAAI really don’t understand people’s obsession with staff on power builds
If you run into a team that has condi removing traits, youre pretty much useless
Look at eles for example, running condi against them is, well kidna pointless since in a 1v1 theyd tear you apart
You can remove condis all you want, you cant remove my back to back crit, once I hit you unless you heal that’s it the damage is there to stay
With condi you have to go through the struggle of stacking it and blah blah blah, yeah if they cant cleanse them then youre alright
But when they do cleanse them and repeatedly do so, what are you gonna do?
A hybrid build huh? I thought about giving it a try, but I love me crits too much lol
If you said thief, you have a bit of work to do, a thief shouldn’t be able to handle you well on his own
As for 1v1 or counters in any situation, that would be necros, they can rip more of your boons than you can apply
Kite reapershroud, blind/dodge staff’s marks and elite skill, interrupt his heal= necro freekill. S/f fresh air Ele has always countered necro (probably only not when mercenary amulet was a thing and chill was doing damage)
Good Thieves in other hands are more a dangerous of necros, if they they wait you burn your difensive cooldowns
That might work if hes running a meta build, I’m not too sure tbh, all of my chars but my rev all have custom builds. If they have the soul reaping trait, kiting shroud is going to be even harder, blind might be a bit effective depending on their reaper trait.
Idk I guess it depends on the skill level of both players bro lol
I keep my necros to where he can keep you boon ripped and dps up no matter if I’m running condi or power
If you said thief, you have a bit of work to do, a thief shouldn’t be able to handle you well on his own
As for 1v1 or counters in any situation, that would be necros, they can rip more of your boons than you can apply
All thieves? I too play squishy and burst thieves are a pain to win against. It is more a question of them making mistakes when I win, then me playing flawless (I play staff, not S/F tho but still).
Most of the eles I run against keeps my damage to as much a minimum as possible, I usually get them to at least 10% health before I’m downed, then if they can they heal back up
it never fails
If you said thief, you have a bit of work to do, a thief shouldn’t be able to handle you well on his own
As for 1v1 or counters in any situation, that would be necros, they can rip more of your boons than you can apply
I rolled a thief and that’s become my main, I swear to god I used to hate all of you with complete passion
Team: Focus mes plz
Me: KYS, focus him your d*** self
I literally hated fighting you mofos lol
I recently decided to try Mesmer out for my self and all I have to say is
Jesus f****** Christ is it hard to survive as a Mesmer in pvp
You kittens may tend to annoy the heck out of me, but I can say now that you all have earned my respect
Especially you ridiculous f****** who always switch yourself with your clones in the blink of an eye, good lord youre beasts
that is all
I half agree and disagree
A good warriors not gonna let you kite him like that etc, one thing I noticed with me is that they’ll try and wait till I get too comfortable and the next thing I know I’m getting beat into the ground and I’m dead, once they have you on the ground that’s it
With warriors who don’t know any better etc, yeah its usually RIP
I’m lost on some of you saying “it would need to be tweaked”
Umm no it wouldn’t and this wouldn’t make it op
It already has a long cool down, even after taking the spectral trait. Damage numbers are high in this game and I see that these same ppl are obviously forgetting how non mobile necros is the term “punching bag” when referring to us is there for a reason
All of our defensive abilities are really quite useless, I have a thief, I can still count on 1 hand how many necros players have fought him 1v1 and won….that in itself is an extremely small group of ppl
We cant tank damage at all unless who evers attacking us is still learning or we have a engi or ele supporting us, we die pretty fast even with our high health
Other classes (as already stated) have abilities that doe the same if not better
I mean my rev can take 3 ppl on for quite some time, I usually manage to hold out till someone else or the rest of the team comes along
Rev and Warrior both have healing abilities that not only block attacks, but also abilities that takes incoming damage and converts it to kittening health
All this would do is convert incoming damage to life force….means if my health is at 10k when I activate it, my health will still be at 10k after its done in which its not like it stays up long at all
So yeah no there would be nothing op about
Hell if anything that sounds fair to me, the least mobile class with the least amount of actual defenses (name 1 time you fought a necros who blocked your attack or turned your damage into a 0….go ahead ill wait) with a good idea that will at least give the ele something to do besides baby sit us
Yeah see this why I don’t get the forums sometimes
I use S/d on my thief, just last night I hit every top stat except for defense and healing….literally
I lost count of how many times I’ve hit top damage too
Maybe it sucks in pve, but in pvp if used right with the right build you can destroy ppl if you use it right
I ran into this before and oh good lord did it screw me over in teef vs teef fights
Yeah they do to an extent….well idk about in game but here they do, I made a literal light joke at anet and got a warning for it because somehow I was “saying something bad about an employee”
Boii what?
Laugh with Anet….and Anet punishes you then laughs at you
Ive literally played maybe 1 match with a bot, literally, and all I do is spvp, where are ppl finding bots like this ? (actually curious, not bashing you op)
And this is why I don’t play ranked, too much random bs decides if you increase or decrease in it
two thfs could work in theory but they are very rarely coordinated enough to work.
I’ve seen double thief win at platinum level.
^^this.
Also, to answer OP’s question. Thieves weren’t like this at launch, in fact my job as a thief used to be to go far, kill whatever is there solo and join teammates. Not anymore. On one sunny day Anet decided that thief should not be able to 1v1 most classes (yeah yeah you can 1v1 some nowadays, but let’s be honest it takes looong time, you will lose point anyway and your enemy is most likely very bad) and also not have team support, all due to their mobility.
They continued to nerf (anyone remember BP or sb nerfs lol?) and “tweak” the class until it became decap/+1 pet and whole balance since then was done around that idea which led to one issue: thief is balanced around having teammates holding points as they are themselves not allowed to do so or support teammates by dev’s design (it also probably didn’t help that they effectively deleted thief class at HoT launch to make space for revs for the sake of sales). Meaning you don’t want more than 1 thief per team. Issue is, MM does not make sure that you have only 1 thief per team.Issue is not just with thieves, the biggest flaw in class balance is that they balance classes around non-class stacking but MM allows class stacking which results to wonky balance in the match. Look at DHs: one DH is not much of an issues, stacked DHs can become one due to absurd synergy with conquest and team support (aoe heals, aoe knockbacks, fast rez, aoe blocks, aoe buffs etc.)
This class has a high skill cap and not everyone can play it. Problem is everyone thinks they can..
…and yet every forum warrior that doesn’t play thief claims it is most faceroll class in game. It also rises another question, why does it take little skill (in comparison) for another XY class to be as effective if not more as a thief?
exactly, actually being an effective thief that decaps and fights even 1v1 or 1v2 is actually hard asf especially when it comes to experienced classes
Those same warriors have never faced off against a guardian, engi, or ele
kittens not fun nor easy and face rollings gonna get you mopped with lol
I made a post before that would’ve helped a lot of that, but I mostly think that dumbing down the damage and boosting everyones health would help out for a start