btw thinking of it it would play almost like a mesmer SW/SW with added vit and armor…
Look at history of anet “balancing” also look at my signature, then look at silk……
You are aive if you expect anet to do anything by whak a mole…..
….they are possibly totally involved in eastern market….and they are ready to sacrifice part of the western that already bought the game.
What effect does this have on the masses? I’m not seeing high levels of deprivation (in game terms) due to the wealth inequality that is presumed to exist due to the largely unrestricted nature of the TP. If those with wealth could use that wealth to interfere with other player’s enjoyment of the game in a significant manner, then it could be considered morally unjust.
Who do you think is paying taxes and profit for market flippers?
A thing is someone seeing some craftable good price is profitable, that buys basic mats and craft and resell.
Another is a player that sees a good has or will have high demand and insufficient offer, buy most of the offer creating more demand, and profit out of that.
See sigil of generosity, silk, skins, any luxury, celestial recipes item etc etc etc.
Would roll a warrior istantly if given something like that type of blocking :o
Would solve the low skillcap and ceiling.
My point about the swap allowance is that ascended weapons and armor cost people several hundred gold. That is a lot in a game described as non grindy. A lot of people were unhappy at being told to grind the first time, and now they’re being told to do it again? A lot of people will give up.
thousands….
Hundred is you are from the pet professions known as heavies…
They don t only should be the best in every single part of the game but their armor should cost half and require half time with the time gating….
but they will never nerf warriors and guardians…
Its not that even when people used to run in PVT in pve they were the most required professions.
Its not that guardian support is the most and the ONLY pve played support profession since release (only recently was switch to dps in SOME parties).
Its better to make a change that improve the innate stats and abilities of those 2 profession .
I m totally gonna build a competitive pve condition mesmer….
i can t understand where they take the idea ZERK is the issue…i 100% agree with you.
And seems their effort to spread panic and possibly destroy US/EU population is a priority.
Do they think that people will simply change equipment?
Its not PvP! full ascended equipment for a light profession costs 1000+ gold….
what about mesmers?
Its easy to see the profession totally disappear from pve in just one patch.
so much faith in anet …
they should start to address this also…
Why people expect them to nerf zerk to the ground?
I know the answer >__>
Well, that’s basically the problem. There’s only a few ways to get Dragonite Ore:
1. From World Bosses
yes and most of them gives so few you just don t want to lose time…
2-5 dragonite for a 30 min event ……for example.
Temples are the only reliable source.
You can react to stealth, by definition. Do you play in WvW as if you’re a clueless NPC? “Welp the thief went stealth, guess he disappeared for good.”
Maybe you should start to learn what is prediction and what is reaction…
Without those basic concepts you lack the knowledge required for a balancing discussion…..
Even with any good idea you could possibly have you will still miss part of the picture…
warrior is the best option simply because the class remains tanky even while in zerker gear, combining supreme survivability with supreme damage…..
and supreme offensive support
and the best ressing skill in game
and the best invulnerabilities
the bst mobility skills (see arah exploiting and much more)
etc etc etc
Warrior simply does everything but anti projectiles and healing….. and with the lowest
skill floor.
Any unexperienced player becomes as effective as best pve players with a warrior.
Guardian does everything else without sacrificing damage.
(edited by LordByron.8369)
I think they are going a wrong direction……
I hope I’m wrong….
all but addressing the real issue …..
They won t never consider looking at warriors and guardians…never.
If they weren t so easy and efficient we ’d see 99% of melee zerk stacking Groups at least starting changing tactic and possibly even equip…
Zerk would still exist but would be balanced with everything else.
Are you doing something about the heavy profession discrimination present on LFG tool?
Its not the berserker dominance its the profession dominance…
Its currently the worst PVE issue of this game…….open LFG tool for a minute and you ll see.
I really cant understand how can a lot of people in this thread (and the game in general) fail to understand and accept that something is clearly broken in this game when the best possible setup for most of the content is 4xwarrior + guardian, or even 5x warrior all in glass cannon burst damage gear.
Are we playing the same game?
according to lfg seems yes…
Warrior is the best dps class for reliability and ease of use….
Guardian support is really uncomparable to any other profession even if full dps.
But we are stil here to discuss if zerker is an issue……..
In the meantime profession discrimination goes rampant.
Whats the point of a mmorpg if i can t play with strangers unless i play a warrior or a guardian?
If i have to use ONLY my friendlist/guild then i would just play any steam/xbl/psn multyplayer game…..
Enought of a sign to hint to the fact theres a problem.
yes and its not the armor….
actually if people could admit this,would be good:
Almost anyone can run dungeons with a guardian and warriors in full zerk stacking and full melee.
less can run dungeons in full zerker without a guardian using zerk and stacking
Few can run dungeons without guardians and warriors while stacking and wearing zerk.
Really few run dungeons without war and guards and stacking in full zerk….
Some runs dungeon without armors…..(there may be a reason)
A significant part of PVE players rerolled at least a guard or a warrior expecially for istances…
Is this correct?
You can t react to stealth by definition…..
Its the reason why many competitive games don t put any stealth skill at all.
1) yeah obviously all thieves are more skilled than any other player…
Tell me another profession that can stay in front of an enemy spawn for half an hour of a tier 1 www server….without being killed.
2) why do you question things that happened? you can t deny reality…it happened, youtube was full of vids to the point anet removed the ability to cap/contest in stealth.
For the source as i said elsewhere this forum search function is bad…any old player reading www and pvp forum will remember it was shortly before the 4s revealed debuff in www. (historically the FASTEST nerf reverted in this game ever seen……was few days opposed by months for any other….).
well you can look at the screen when you launch a skill…..
No i can t because the search function of this forum doesn t work or they delete old threads…..you can t even find most common quotes.
yet i think many players remember and could confirm if they read here…
They said something along “you win if you make them run away….” to people complainig they couldn t kill thieves.
good tell arenanet that whined the same thing seems.
Actually no because against any class but thief (playing on eyou have best mobility in game..warrior i second) even a 3-4 second stealth is enough
If it wasn t so mesmer wouldn t share the same issue….even with the awful mobility it has.
And as i said the many thieves trolling people in www are still a proof…..and your argument can t Always be everyone is bad but thieves…
Just a question…
Between the old ALT+F4 before the penalty was introduced and stealth…wich is more effective?
And you ask why people freak out when thieves and mez stealths?
Reading what you wrote you confirmed most of my points ._.
A thief dies only if he wants to….
as said because even anet said you can t kill a good thief.
its quite like winning the lottery…
even if you play thief yourself.
If he is good he will just stealth run in a random directoin before his HP runs out…and with your same mobility there is no way for you to catch him unles syou guess the random direction….that has nothing to do with skill.
the distance is not an issue..
Everything over 20 seconds for cd instead prevent ele from stay in fight range with his target….making D/D uneffective at chasing enemies… (expecially with stability etc).I strongly disagree that stealht instead needs buffs….at least for www its alread equals to being immortal…
When was the last time you managed to KILL a decent thief?Ppl want the nerf on stealth in pvp reverted back to 3s instead of 4s …
Also, last time I killed a decent thief was 10h ago before I went to bed? :P
You didn t in www….
I don t play pvp but i can see why there stealth is less of a problem…smaller maps and capture the point are the reason.
As said some thieves even put some vit and toughness just to stand in the front of enmy spawns and troll dozens of people in www….
I love how people reply to this thread with the same stuff they spew in the other 500 threads, not realizing that this isn’t about the balancing itself. Rather about why sides can be so hostile about it.
I really think Arachnid hit the nail on the head, people are too entrenched in there “I’m a better player, I do this, it works best, it works because I make it work, don’t nerf skill”-position.
This proves a few things which are fairly common knowledge about MMORPGs, nicely so:
- If you’re at the top, the game is balanced as it is. If you’re not, then it isn’t. Balance is when you’re the winner, as always.
- A problem only exists in 1 incarnation, and has exactly 1 cause. There are no compounding problems or symptoms, ever.
- Balance is something objectively decided and not up to interpretation.
sad to say but this comes directly from the lack of faith in anet balancing and the impression of them giving more credit to complainers rather than trying to find “balance”.
It may or may not be true but many nerfs they did were so immotivated that the nerf fear is predominant in this game….
They Always go for the Whack a mole nerf style in everything and reconsider it when something disappears from the game…..
I could give you examples in every part of the game:
-Profession balance: elementalist, glamour mesmer, phantasm mesmer etc etc
-Economy: Silk, T5 wood…
-Farming: orr
They are extremely fast with HUGE nerfs and take 3-6 months to slightly reconsider them and they don t even totally reverse them but only slightly…
Since they said they would reconsider berserker pve dominance, (that is not an issue…because as said you don t say so many requests for zerk ranger or necro for example) panic spread.
Along that there are also people frustrated with the current pve meta that wants Revenge instead of a better game for everyone.
Th ebest thing they could do is clarify what they intend to do about PvE…rather than saying they will reconsider berserkers that is something that can only spread panic considering how grindy pve has become.
I also expect some minor tweak…
RTL changed to 35 or 30 that will be a useless change…..its a gap closer and since its too easy to evade should have a 15-20 sec cd otherwise ele will be kited forever by any class with a stunbreak, stability or cond cleanse (=every single profession….)
the distance is not an issue..
Everything over 20 seconds for cd instead prevent ele from stay in fight range with his target….making D/D uneffective at chasing enemies… (expecially with stability etc).
I strongly disagree that stealht instead needs buffs….at least for www its alread equals to being immortal…
When was the last time you managed to KILL a decent thief?
As for CM Sure Shot Seamus, you can just go behind him and stay melee, his knockdown attack is very slow.
its so slow you can just circle around him and never be hit..you can find on youtube the vid.
1st thing thieves say is stealth is the only defensive mechanic…..
If you can choose 2 from 3 surviving mechanics that justs makes the point invalid…not even considering how some other professions have 1 or none.
you can build with evasion AND mobility….or with stealth and mobility
Being virtually immortal and the top burst is not a “perk”….
How useful is mobility, the ability to run away from a fight, for winning against your opponent?
Burst + mobility is everything…..
It means you can go full zerk and go all in on the burst and still be able to survive, it means you can jump in and out of combat when YOU want disrupting opponent tempo….etc etc etc.
When devs nerfed ele mobility the profession disappeared….there could be a reason.
You say thieves have 3 defensive mechanics as if that’s some sort of ridiculous number to possess.
You do realize other classes have access to those and more defensive mechanics as well, right? While having larger health pools in some cases.
Just for an example, look to warriors. They don’t have stealth. They just have almost every other defensive mechanic, including access to greater mobility than thieves (dependent on build obviously, but what isn’t) and every class access to evades (dodge rolling is a thing, and other classes can have perma-vigor, the thief cannot).
Your argument is innately flawed because it’s assuming that thieves are invincible because they possess the very same mechanics that other classes possess.
Warrior mobility infact is indeed OP….
Stealth+ mobility is just being invincible….unless you really make lot of mistakes….
If you can t kill a mesmer that has no mobility and short stealth, how you could be supposed to kill a decent thief?
My logic isn t flawed mostly because even anet admitted you can’t kill thieves in www.
Why do you think that troll thieves are everywhere alone in front of enemy spawns?
Why do you think that in the past when stealth didn t prevent to capture points they could contest alone camps against medium zergs with not so much effort?
short answer: play with a better guardian :/
If you are stuck with players not doing their job change utilities….you have a mantra and an aoe to remove cond….doing so lowers your offensive support btw…
I also use a superior sigil of generosity on GS (but mostly in fractals) there is a cheap version of it that works as well
I don t find mesmer to have any need for knight…you have a cd10 extra evade, distortion, if needed the OH sword parry and permavigor.
You can even add stability mantra if needed.
Only thing i don t like is the scepter….if used as it should it delete your 3rd phantasm with the autoattack.
Gs has a phant with decent DPS AND aoe..if you need ranged options i d go with it.
i don t think ele is fine in pve…
Except those 2 gimmick builds, you are doing no damage with your WEAPON skills
You have the conjured bow burst, the hammer sustained and the fgs bug or the fire 22222 staff build mostly…
If you instead like to play D/D S/D or S/F or staff with 4 attunements your sustained damage is terrible even when you finished stacking 25 might.
D/D and S/F in particular needs lot of love in pve….we didn t roll an elementalist to swing a hammer or run against the wall with a sword.
Reflect are a part of the damage…since the new signet its no more so Big when you can easily have 3 phantasms up.
Scholar runes are generally considered to be the best.
Not for mesmer….at least not for phant mesmer since the bonus dps doesn t transfer to phantasms…
Ruby orbs are cheap and nice…there maybe something other better, but consider Always what can be transfered to phantasms
As util i use:
Blink and feedback almost Always…
I use mirror image in fractal (for Emergency 3 seconds of distortion) or signet of illusion or again mantra of resolve…
(edited by LordByron.8369)
I currently play this:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhImObyx5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUekzM2A-j0CBYfBkEBgIAM5rIaslhhtMKIVXRTVbR16aYqXAWzFRrWKgImAA-w
Its quite good 1VS1 despite i can t kill ANY PU mesmer and i struggle a lot against engi…..
Rather than rtl updraft i prefer magnetic leap or burning speed…before updraft or even lightning flash.
You didn t have warriors burst ready for grubs….
Lupi ate 4 grubs in that playhowyouwant video. That also amplifies his damage quite a bit.
You didn’t watch the video and have absolutely no idea what the hell you’re talking about. Just as usual. LordByron random acts of derailing threads with inanity.
Well the guy has elected to put lord in front of his name so what do you expect? lol. You’ve seen Lord of the rings now witness Lord of the basement!
Oh my….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Byron
The ignorance…..
P.S. if you are too Young forgive me, you ll probably study him soon at school.
(edited by LordByron.8369)
You bet i can…
1st thing thieves say is stealth is the only defensive mechanic…..
If you can choose 2 from 3 surviving mechanics that justs makes the point invalid…not even considering how some other professions have 1 or none.
you can build with evasion AND mobility….or with stealth and mobility
Being virtually immortal and the top burst is not a “perk”….
Well lets see the issue as it is
1. zerker do to much damage versus non zerker build and make everything else look noobish even when its not
2. Just because your tanky doesnt mean you dont die in 2 hit
3. Spec wich uses pet are looked down on because of the fact they deal minimal damage, yet if we increase the spec damage they will become to strong in pvp and potentialy take over the wvw
4. support are not needed right now because zerking guys can do the same role without specing for it and down boss in so little time they get to avoid all the dangers of the fightPossible solution to make thing viable
1. Reduce all zerker gear critical damage to 1% effectively making all zerker unable to reach above 70% critical damage when fully buffed (leaving them very good dps but not making that dps overwelming for other spec).
2. Upgrade every other spec damage to a point where the pvp will be broken because support will overheal everything and minion master necro will be able to destroy you within 6 second.I think the choice is prety much obvious.
both would ruin part of the game…if anything www and pvp have less players…
But there is a third option.
Look at how some builds have access to offensive/defensive support while being full dps.
I.E. balance pve professions.
You didn t have warriors burst ready for grubs….
Lupi ate 4 grubs in that playhowyouwant video. That also amplifies his damage quite a bit.
You didn’t watch the video and have absolutely no idea what the hell you’re talking about. Just as usual. LordByron random acts of derailing threads with inanity.
Ignore the fact i just pointed out lot of stuff like permaprotection and the banner ress and the builds….
Then proceed to find a detail i missed….
Use it to totally avoid to say anything useful and proceed with personal Attacks….
I wonder if people noticed that are Always the same 5-6 posters to do this….if not feel free to look at dungeon section and how friendly and constructive it is……
The best part is that they keep complaining everywhere and argue with everyone….and still 0 suggestions.
P.S. clicking on post history helps also….
(edited by LordByron.8369)
Well no, the actual reason was, that they wanted the ele to use RTL as a gap closer rather than an escape tool.
that was the third reason they gave ……
but the fiirst was the thief thing….then maybe they noticed someone would suspect something since 90% of nerf caller were thief players.
Infact the last reason doesn t make any sense considering warrior, mesmer and thieves still have their disengages untouched despite having survivig mechanics and access to all ranges.
GS is not situational.
Gs is versatile by definition and as such is suboptimal whereas any “situational” weaponset is better.
for light armor users only the armor is 550+ golds….
So you didn t have permaprotection..
You didn t get ressed by warrior banner
You didn t have Aegis etc….
You didn t have warriors burst ready for grubs….You were obviously random build with no party tactic planned before….it wasn t your usual dungeon team and you weren t on TS…..
Can you pug the same strategy?Did you even read any of our posts or watch the video?
What do you expect me to answer?
Maybe you should start being constructive?
While we are here do you ever wonder why devs rarely pass by dungeon section?
I have no idea what you’re talking about. The videos just prove you dont need any knowledge or active defense to completely faceroll content.
So you didn t have permaprotection..
You didn t get ressed by warrior banner
You didn t have Aegis etc….
You didn t have warriors burst ready for grubs….
You were obviously random build with no party tactic planned before….it wasn t your usual dungeon team and you weren t on TS…..
Can you pug the same strategy?
But most of all…given the amount of your post complaining about PvE why i still didn t find any constructive suggestion?
If the meta is good as it is why do you even complain (but mostly why don t you never pug? but i know the reason to this…..)
Id just like to say that in that video I was playing the necro (has no blocks, invulns or evade skills) and it was so unbelievably faceroll that I was falling asleep. I didnt think about a single skill used. I just pressed buttons when they came off cd at random intervals. The game is not easier in zerker gear. Its easier in tanky gear. I didnt even go full tank, i had zerker weapons and trinkets and I was able to facetank alphard and lupis 1hit attacks.
You guys are deluded if you think dps groups bypass all boss mechanics. It can happen on some fights but if someone messes up then you have to be ready for those attacks anyway. Ir requires knowledge and skill to zerk many encounters in the game. And that includes the times where bosses melt in under a minute. Its not like bosses take a minute to start attacking.
Lupi vids doesn t impress anyone already…
And yes you can survive a minute with utilities chain….and minimal defensive effort.
You will be able to use your active defenses many times….given their short cd on certain professions.
The question is HOW often do you react to something you see on screen?
in current meta the answer is really few times.
Zerker+stacking meta is there to:
1) reduce the type of answers to boss Attacks
2) reduce the number of answers to boss Attacks
3) reduce drastically answers on reaction replacing them with rotations that has nothing to do with skill
And that is also the reason why people don t like pugging expecially with random professions.
Has there ever been a sound reasoning by the Devs for nerfing RTL?
i was unlucky to see it…
a dev claimed that ele was taking thief role…….also ele D/D was the natural conuter to thieves….
….
and thieves shall have no counter
and so after 3 days people start seeing the issue is not “zerker” but PVE profession balance.
Is zerker necro required for pve?
And what about rangers that goes zerk since release?
engi?
A zerk ele without conjured weapons?
And so on….
Obviously is easier to just nerf zerk equip….that will make guard and wars even more valuable because guard support is unrivaled and war can do good dps even in soldier compared to other professions…
And you are giving the perfect excuse to anet for another 6 months of broken pve meta….
(edited by LordByron.8369)
Where’s my utility that stops mesmers from creating clones?
Here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stealth#Utility_skills_that_grant_stealth
P.S. and the issue is that thief has still 3 defensive mechanics…that makes them immortal at least in www.
Evasions
Stealth
Mobility
Those makes impossible to kill any decent thief.
Its out of date…you can update it easily…just:
Remove 10 points from illusions and add them to dueling (IV)
weapons are fine…as minimal requirements…having another sword and a pistol would help but until you have only 2 weaponsets you will be fine with gs + sw/focus.
Also considerdifferent utilities and the new heal signet.
PvE ele is the total negation of what ele is suspposed to be played….
Also needs a guardian….
Or your 3 seconds self rooting skills will lead you to Death against any boss that is attacking….(that is a jumping puzzle more than a boss).
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