Guild Wars 2

i m waiting the patch ….
Quitting the character obviously if not the game if it happens…

Not as a threat, i don t really think anet would care, but becaue it would mean the direction of this game is completely hopeless.

I expect the worst and usually Patches manages to surprise me negatively…..but i ll wait for the patch.

Try to play a zerk elementalist without guardian and warrior support…

After you succeed, get back here explaining how zerk needs any form of nerfs….

2 profession needs rebalancing:
Guardians and Warriors.
That will stop zerker meta for the masses….leaving only the skilled able to run full zrk groups (as intended).

Best part of fgs….
When you finished casting it you are either dead or your target is mile away….
So can t be used as gap closer for weaponsets that need it the most (also because you are left without your skills).

Unless you use an ELITE to travel faster out of combat remaining extremely vulnerable…at that point seems quite underpowered as an elite.

Not to mention izzy wants to nerf it….luckily we are in a so bad situation he still could not do that.

Paavotar.3971:

RTL was a problem in WvW !

No
Never was and never will be….

Nobody said that! devs declared the opposite…

P.S: and no anything over 20 makes your gap closing abilities rubbish.
20 is a lot already….
D/D need rtl at 20 fixed if not 15 at least used as gap closer even against stealthing opponents…

If RTL stays as a long CD skill it remains only a disengage skill because nobody will risk wasting it and that makes offensive/balanced D/D builds uneffective and kitable

it was an alternative to mixing gear for people that used to slightly change build.
Having celestial + another set would help testing and refining your build with affordable costs without having to get a third set.

Now aside those 2-3 that obviously trolls since say something and its opposite in few posts (as i linked).

Its clear they are doing a huge mistake….

And having wupwup become less efficient than valkirye+knight+Pvt etc because they want to keep some sort of aethetic balance with number is totally unprofessional.

And NO REASON was given to do that.

4 threads also…..and nobody got even a reply.

CDI is a LIE.

Champ farm is one of the few forms of farming money left.

I can t really see how people complain on champ trains and then is Always quiet about the cancer is market speculation that is way more toxic and unbalanced.

Anet decided to turn this game in a grindfest, let players have a way to theirequipment out of the TP flipping.

If anything first address the tp and only after consider nerfing the rest, something that is due sinc e too long….everything but the TP keeps getting nerfed.

Not to mention anet with Patches invalidates thousands golds of equip with no remorse.

Sincerely, a player that NEVER farmed champ trains but thinks its wrong to remove them.

Ok this with the tornado trick deals 8K MAXIMUM
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWnEEFcY6BKHQlYAgowFTEKs4hyjcmxGA-jgxAYfA6DQyrIasNjioxqrxUuER1SBY1wI-e

(notice the armor and HP values )

GW2 had a friendly community when it was about playing for fun.

Since they pushed playing ONLY for rewards philosophy you have to expect what we have today.

They are appealing to farmers and grinders….You didn t even see what happened during the dungeon farming preascended weapons etc……

If you lost 4 seconds due to a slightly offest pull, you were booted and insulted.
People played dungeons with a timer and 10 more seconds per run would equal quit or boot (i m not joking, really few seconds….).

At the beginning instead you saw people playing together and Learning istances etc….with veterans helping.

graendall with 3000 armor and 20k hp and an ele you are critting for 1500

SFR population crashed….
But i m not that concerned since in a moth im quitting www if they go on with the brilliant ferocity idea.

That build is unbviable also..
You get downed in seconds and you are a rallybot for anyone you downed and more.

I use the same in a more balanced build (5000 per meteor).
In order to do something i need to use:

Meteor shower=>lightning flash=>tornado fleeing and often i have to interrupt tornado and hope to get in mistform fast enough to not die.

GW2 Activity / Dominant Profession

Dungeons: Guardian + 4 warriors or 5 warriors
Exceptions: AC 1-3 1 ele 1 guard 3 wars, cof1 1 mesmer 4 wars

Fractals: 2 Guardian +3 warriors
1 war and 1 guard are absolutely mandatory for 99% parties.
Any party not asking for at least 1 guard is either low level or playing for a challenge.

i could say that healing seems way more -90% at 50….

But at least you don t have to deal with instabilities that were not designed for an online game in mind (lvl 33 is madness for example its like saying anything deals double damage).

Carighan.6758:

Sykper.6583:

I apologize if I don’t see this ‘issue’ to the degree of which you do

But Skyper!
You don’t know your Internetz much, do you?

It is an outrage! They’ll cancel their subs!

There are no imbalances in MMORPGs. There’s only insulting the devs and questioning their mental capacities. Which is the same, just in MMORPG-jargon.

Also there is sarcasm on players maturity when you are short on arguments.

Carighan.6758:

I think it works fine at 20s CD.

Just:

I’d change all such skills to not work without a target. Across all classes.

Would not work since 2 of the 3 main offender are stealth professions…..
Would still make thieves and mesmer totally unreachable.

If they find an issue to stealth not breaking the skill should be like:

20 seconds targeted, 40 seconds untargeted.
20 seconds flat in PvE.

Its not 10%

Its 10% on an unbuffed build

Add runes/food/sigils/traits/buffs and see…..

Zerk nerf is the proof the CDI is a lie.

Its not zerker deals too much….even your latest LS content have Champions oneshotting tanks making any form of defense useless (not to mention new fractals…its a oneshot fest).
Also Warrior banners….Add something to the AI to walk out of them unless controlled (immobilize/chill at least bypass defiant).

having permanent 10-20% DPS boost to any party from a single profession is TOO MUCH expecially if it comes from utilities.

The opinion of the community that doesn t post on the forum is easily represented by:

LFG tool
Warrior rerolls
zerg trains composition
pvp frequency

and much more…

They clearly know what s happening as everyone else.

Needs to be 20 ….
Ele needs a reliable gap closer.
Its too easy to evade/stealth/block/etc etc

Its the only reliable gap closing skill on a full melee weaponset.
anything more than 20 means being unable to avoid kiting etc.

DiogoSilva.7089:

LordByron.8369:

That is the point…
Unless anet thinks they gave blurred frenzy to ele to compensate the lack of defense….

They just reduced a slow skill vulnerability
Differently from BF you can t use BS as reliable extra evade for 2 reasons:

1) it just ruins positioning
2) it will available on 1/4 attunements and in the only without any defense.

With Burning Speed you will be able to:

1. Leap through marks, traps and other ground effects while evading them.
   Great to catch staff necromancers, or prevent engineers from disabling your point.

and this is a bad thing for the balance?
Considering necros can sit in their mark/traps etc its not a valid point

1. Burst moving foes without being caught by a sudden movement-impairing effect.
   Similar to the above point.

This is somkething that MUST be discussed.
Its a linear skill and its not even that fast.

Means it needs guessing and you know if you guess right and your opponent moves in the wrong direction he deserves to be hit?

Now consider your opponent is somehow lucky OR react properly.
The skill takes you out of your effective range/position and you are vulnerable (see kiting properly).

1. Burst foes with less interruption from external sources.
   Especially important in team fights where warriors from the opposing team are spamming KDs and stuns everywhere.

“burst” i think this word can t be applied to the skill….
Deals 1/4 than a thief burst and as said you can evade it on reaction…

So NO its not a burst at all.
Its an average damage skill

1. Evade a burst when immobilized, while still dealing a lot of damage and burning from the stacked fire trail.

i use this in pve a lot….
It dpesn t do ,much damage…and in PvP www if ou sit on it well you deserve to be hit for 1/4 of a warrior 1HB.

Elementalists are very weak to immobilize, and any squishy profession that will depend on it will get hit hard if their sudden burst is evaded all the while getting bursted down.

Elementalist are weak to a lot of things mostly chill rather than immobilize….

Considering anet i expect the usual behavior

Don t listen to anyone (CDI is obviously damage control, they NEVER listen popular topics) and make celestial useless

In 3-6 months when the set disappears, reconsider the nerf telling stuff like “the meta is changed and we feel that….”

And not “we totally screwed despite being warned”

Its something every elementalist is aware of.

But i could mention also:

-silk
-light ascended armor crafting

and stuff like that…..they Always perform their “small shavings” (as they call them) with a rusty chainsaw, and the result is obvious.

Releasing dies makes everyone but speculators happy …..

Its something should be done frequently to keep market honest.
Not only with dies but with anything wich price is being “controlled” to get profit on resales.

Did u ever heard risk/reward?
The first time you experience what risk is (despite its something like 0,00000001%) you can t complain.

Nikaido.3457:

Unless you do the wrong thing by camping fire attunement, burning speed is NOT going to be the equivalent of a mesmer’s blurred frenzy or a warrior whirlwind or a guardian shelter and will only have very occasional uses.

Anet doesn’t really “get” the ele.

That is the point…
Unless anet thinks they gave blurred frenzy to ele to compensate the lack of defense….

They just reduced a slow skill vulnerability
Differently from BF you can t use BS as reliable extra evade for 2 reasons:

1) it just ruins positioning
2) it will available on 1/4 attunements and in the only without any defense.

Josh Davis.6015:

The proposed changes to critical damage gear aren’t specifically PvE-focused, but focused rather on the stat weighting of critical damage itself. We’re not aiming to make crit damage unviable, just to bring it closer to other gear sets.

As for the first feature build, there will be other factors coming into play that could very well offset the changes, including reworked runes/sigils, the ability to use sigils in new combinations (including 2 on a two-handed weapon), and the profession balance changes. Just something to keep in mind.

Its a bad and really unpopular solution…with lot of repercussion that werent thougt.

Where is the CDI?
Will you go on anyway disregarding players opinions?
If the change is so good why won t affect pvp?

Sarrs.4831:

they’re actually fairly frequent; most classes in the game have some weapon spread that benefits from both condition damage and power boosts

NO profession has 100% skills dealing both condition AND direct
That results in wasting at least 50% condition or power/crit/ferocity stats and a reason why stats should be higher to match….

it’s really not a very offensively directed build at all so i’m wondering if maybe that’s the cause of your low damage

Sarrs.4831:

you use the wrong weapons and a few wrong trinkets for the discussion.
(NOTE: ZOJJIA/BERSERKER)

Sarrs.4831:

So you’re just exploiting the crit damage on the set, which is getting nerfed because it’s an outlier on the set. You’re the exact target of the nerf.

Sarrs.4831:

Yeah, and your overall damage doesn’t get nerfed more than a Zerker. It only gets nerfed nearly as much as a Zerker if you’re not using conditions at all- In which case you bought the wrong armor set.

Holden.9273:

Will Full celestial gear you would lose 15% of your damage.

This were fast calculations so i could made a mistake, but numbers seems to be right.

You are totally trolling

jihm.2315:

if you really have problem with celestial and you keep playing the game you will be able to craft 1-2 new pieces of armor and your character will find its balance.
my guardians gear is like a mixed salad and still woks properly.

still speaking of stuff you don t understand don t you?
crit damage is a thing…
Celestial crit damage is a further 60% nerf…….that will be added
First they nerf crit damage converting it to ferocity, then they remove 60% ferocity on celestial pieces…..

I m pretty sure i would be fine with mixed pieces without ANY celestial in them
Because i would not get the 60% ferocity nerf.

And no crafting a couple pieces will solve anything….it will be so bad that needs to be totally removed.
Any piece is a malus on overall efficience whatever build you come up with

and it was not to say that im the only only one playing mmos ,it was just a reminder how games work.
maybe other games dont nerf sets but they nerf classes and they keep them to the ground for one ore even two years.

Like elementalists for examples?
And that is a good reason?

So they should go on making a mistake because other people commit mistakes….

Just seeing how fun is people to deny speculation rasing prices more than inflation exactly over 2 threads talking of items with 300-1000% price increase….

In few hours.

I bet its the normal demand ……obviously.

You like a lot speaking of real economy….but i don t see those numbers in real.

And what zoda complains of should be the common rule….maybe excluding TP items…but for sure should be on ANY non tp item

That means balancing risk and reward to keep the market honest.

haviz.1340:

If you want to increase the praised build diversity, just increase the difficulty of playing zerkers by increasing the skill floor of active defense like aegis and reflections.

they already are maybe the only skill based stuff…
The issue is that the hurrdurr warrior has none and just need 1 decent guardian per party to succeed with stacking.

4 bad warriors + 1 good guardian in pug = win

Sarrs.4831:

It does. Condition damage.
Condition damage.
This would defeat the point of Celestial and the point of the change.
They do do it with reason. The ratios are out of whack on certain pieces of gear.

Not entirely certain why I’m still replying to you because it seems you’re not getting the point.

now its clear you are not entitled to speak about it.
Overall DPS will be CONDITION included worse than PVT.

When taking condition damage you should consider that out of X skills some are direct damage and other are cond damage

really few have both (that means that cond damage OR crit damage and power goes wasted on more than 50% skills thus those stats impact is way lower)
And that is why condition damage doesn t cover the POWER loss already.

Figure it when they double nerf crit…

Stop theorycrafting try it in game
There is a reason why celstial is not popular already.

silentnight warrior.2714:

LordByron.8369:

Id say more:

Nerf 8% healing signet => nerf 10-20% overall direct dps of non tanks…(traits, buffs, food, sigil, runes etc were not considered in the 10%).

That is a smart buff.
I bet even in PvP dps will get some nerf to compensate for the 8% loss.

Id say more:

“nerf 10-20% overall direct dps of non tanks…(traits, buffs, food, sigil, runes etc were not considered in the 10%)” works for every professions, so ALL heals with the exception of HS will be 10-20% overal stronger against “overall direct dps of non tanks”. (smart buff to ALL classes, warrior included with mending and surge)
And against condition/tanks HS will be 8% weaker.

If you consider that DPS and condition is the ONLY counter to healing signet…
Thus is a buff to any form of passive HP regen…(maybe spirit rangers too).

The point is that HEALING SIGNET 8% nerf on passive is a buff if paired with overall DPS nerfs.

(if you look at warrior WWW meta hey won t have dps loss mostly)

Agree on the fact that evasion is less related to warriors instead….yet will make armor+vit difference more evident…
I just hope they won t apply the same to ele trait…that would result in a MAJOR nerf…Thus i totally expect them to do it.

Justifications doesn t make it any different.

Map jumping results in bigger zergs……making everything less fun.

“Luckily” the population dropped so hard that even on T1 you can get fast in EB.

Sarrs.4831:

Seriously, I’m okay with the Celestial ratio moving from 5/8 to 6/8. I don’t have a problem with that.

Lets avoid useless stuff and start from here.
Celestial is clearly an unintended backfire.

Crit damage in celestial doesn t push the damage so much even if you mix it.

If zerk will lose 10% overall dps, celestial should lose overal 5% since PVT is losing almost any.

But even so celestial would possibly get behind PVT….but at least wold not be a so knee jerk nerf.

if today celestial has crit damage equal to zerker, they should make it ferocity equal to zerker even post patch.

If they nerf crit damage and then reduce of 60% ferocity on celestial sets they double nerf a set with no reason.

Sarrs.4831:

LordByron.8369:

You should read your messages….before trying that road….

I’m 99% certain that I’ve already used that word in this discussion. I don’t mean exploit in the sense of “you are exploiting the game (and should be banned)” I mean “you are using a specific factor of the rules to your advantage”. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

The sentence was wrong on 2 levels…

The nerf is not aimed at balanced builds.
Since you Always forget to put POWER in the equation.

You see OMG XX% crit damage OP 11!!!!1!!!!!
Full celestial base damage < full PVT already…..i ll have to repeat it forever.

Celestial mixed STILL is halfway between zerker AND pvt. Giving up lot of thoughness, vitality AND utilities (sigils).

CELESTIAL sees 0 uses in PVE speedruns it exists mostly in WWW where was the same as mixing pieces.

Link me a proof the nerf is aimed at WWW balanced builds

P.S. for your info (meteor shower/tornado trick)
-BEST PVT damage with staff is around 2000-2500
-FULL ZERK EXOTIC does 9-11.000
-Celestial (asc) MIXED with zerker does 3-5000
-Full celestial doesn t crit much and does 3000 max

Sarrs.4831:

LordByron.8369:

Now a better question:
Why you are promoting unbalance?
I have a couple ideas…..

I doubt this discussion can go any further if you’re going to accuse me of having ulterior motives. I want to present the numbers and the truth; nothing more than that.

Sarrs.4831:

So you’re just exploiting the crit damage on the set, which is getting nerfed because it’s an outlier on the set. You’re the exact target of the nerf.
.

You should read your messages….before trying that road….

Sarrs.4831:

…

ROFL.
Building is now exploting

Rune/buffs and sigil choice is a CHOICE.
You get something giving up something other.
I could get a chill on swap instead of +5% crit chance…..

Not to mention crit damage comes form POWER…….but its clear you don t have idea of what we are talking

If i get the same crit% and crit damage of a zerker i still deal halfway between PVT and zerk. (and i can t get those numbers unless i sacrifice lot of stuff that is the point of “BUILDS” and customizations and BALANCE).

The point is clear:
Nerf aimed at TOP DPS will hit LOW DPS harder…..

Balanced SET will have LESS DPS compared to TANKY set as a result.

Makes sense totally…

Also throwing sentences like “it Always happens mmorpgs” its even more pointless….
It doesn t …..

It happened very few time in few mmorpg and had huge repercussions….in gw2 seems to be the rule to remove progress from random players…..and this is extremely wrong.

Now a better question:
Why you are promoting unbalance? what harm would you get from wupwup users to get a stat change? or leaving it as it was before as a mid ground between PVT and zerk (full celestial was already behind PVT, but could be adjusted with proper builds obviously giving up other things)
I have a couple ideas…..that is exactly the reason this community is considered toxic.

what about getting some remote AI making boss walk out of banners area and attack from range if the party is full melee?

And the 5 zerk meta is a lie.
its a warrior AND guardian meta not a full zerk meta….

Zerk is the only way for players to cover the last spot in warriors and guardians PUG groups when there are no warriors available.

Most people if they could would play WWWWG or WWWGG….and many do.

Map jumps aggravated the issue…..its quite annoying….
Totally destroyed any non zerg tactic even out of prime time..

Id say more:

Nerf 8% healing signet => nerf 10-20% overall direct dps of non tanks…(traits, buffs, food, sigil, runes etc were not considered in the 10%).

That is a smart buff.
I bet even in PvP dps will get some nerf to compensate for the 8% loss.

and if i want to move only a skin?

Can i do it with 2 trasmutations only?

Yet many people would consider defensive equipment if:

1) the game wasn t based on 1hit KO
2) guardians didn t exist
3) banners didn t exist

Fix that and make more balanced teams viable.

Sarrs.4831:

…
and you use the wrong weapons and a few wrong trinkets for the discussion
….

The distinction between Celestial and non-Celestial, when it comes to how grindy the set is, is trivial. Stop trying to defend your position with this.quote]

actually not

The point of going celestial is mixing with few other things to get a decent crit % (thus the sigil etc….).

That is why if they go on with this nonsense they have to offer an armor switch (and trust me celestial would disappear from the game).

For the grindind….did u ever play any mmorpg?
The first thing they do is making sure people progression doesn t get deleted…

I had quite enough with fractal delete, flamekissed and now the ascended equipment…..

Those stuff happens in BETAS not in a finished game.
Are we a test server?

It starts to be extremely unprofessional and Beyond ridiculous.

fractal and dragon jade

cool

In your world maybe…i don t remember many mmorpg to put a new tier and nerf 1-2 sets to match the lower 2 months later, but its better throwing a random sentence and pretend you are the only playing mmorpgs until today.

To tell the truth i have still to see a point where ZERK is an issue at all.

We are in a situation where PASSIVE defense is useless except for a single profession (guardian….and yes an anchor guardian in pug is more than viable and requested)

Zerker happens to be the gear with less useless stats, like thoughness vitality and healing.

Ascalon
Molten
Dredge
Underwater
Arguably cliffside
Lava
part of svanir

Are all examples of fractals where due to high damage AND number of foes, passive defense is not an option.

Adding the fact that rally is a factor, standing still to ress people often ends up in 2 downed ….dps helps rallying.

i needed some time to understand that data shown before doesn t take in account:

1) Fury
2) Food
3) sigils
4) potential precision equip added.
5) TRAITS

Once again theorycrafting led to wrong assumptions.
In the case of celestial is expecially used in conjunction with precision buffs/sigils/food

That will make REAL dps lower of 15-20% since even fury double the times you crit, making celestial the most nerfed set and putting it behind ANY other possible set.

Do your theorycrafting with this:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhImObzR5wjDAEFuYiQxDWUekzM2A-jkCBYfBkEBkIAIRtIaslhBp6KslXRTVTqWXDT9KISBwkwI-w

Tell me how much of a loss this build will have…..
P.S. consider the 3 traits giving access to permafury and +200 precision +20% crit damage.

P.P.S if you really want to go on and make celestial unviable give us a switch so i get knight -.- wasting 1000 gold ain t fun.
At least for armors/weapons that are the most grindy.

LightningBlaze.4913:

You are stating these for the sake of making things up, but I’ll feed you 1) d/d is mostly about short range.

And this is not a drawback?
Its the hugest of all and being kitable is the reason anet buffed the warrior until today….

The evasion obtaining from this skill is about the same as having immunity skill while casting it.

Oh no…..there is a HUGE difference being able to cast an evasion skill with a defined movement and being able to fo whatever you want for 3 seconds.

In Zerg, you’ll only melt if you are built glassy, being focused by many or fail to gain distance to recover.

This is an undeniable proof you NEVER played in zergs with a dagger.
The guy who invented the D/D tanky build already said how the profession wasn t viable for zergs…

But since you say so…it all changes.

2) are you kidding? You want this to be available on other attunement a as well?

You should look how some profession have evades on a short CD on 1-2 weaponsets.
Warrior and mesmer to say a couple.

3) positioning yourself for this skill is easy and not a weakness now if it fails due the evasion.

Playing means looking at what happens and reacting.
most D/X ele skills have a range.

Fire 3 is one of the FEW exceptions….and THE ONLY in fire…
That means you know its coming exactly when you see ele at the proper distance…
And the counter is extremely easy.
Unless you want your build to play for you….

4) it deals high damage specially on bursty, high dps builds

that is why D/D full zerk is so popular?
I think i saw one once and he quit WWW in 20 seconds
Feel free to browse this section for zerker WWW D/D builds….

. 5) dd excels at gap closers it has 3 very good weapon skills to get closer to your opponent. Rtl is still awesome specially when cripple and chill still not affecting us while using this skill.

I ll tell you clearly…
IF you assume something that is the exact opposite the general consensun thinks…
You should first provide proofs and argumentations.

Since RTL nerf D/D almost disappeared due to the fact RTL can be evaded/blinded/stealthed/blocked
And since the condition meta everyone brings some cond clears ….that will get easily rid of earth 3 that was ALREADY nerfed.

I strongly suggest you to play some D/D in www and then review your position.

D/D is totally unviable in zergs unless you try to go fullbunker+diamondskin and you are quite useless…

TL:DR
You are providing theories that goes against general consensus.
You should either provide arguments or whatever you say is pointless due to false assumptions.

Question:
Did those numbers take fury, sigils and stuff?

Otherwise i bet the DPS loss will be like 20% or more.

P.S. checked….the data people posted didn t considered anything but stats…
The 10% loss is a LIE its 15-20% mostly

Now i get where that calculation came from

That means that a celestial with proper build and sigils will lose WAY more any other sets as i suspected..

The access to fury/food/sigil was not considered….

So as predicted most builds will lose 20%+ getting far behind PVT and Knight.

Carighan.6758:

Kilger.5490:

• head slap ****

Just realized, of course Anet realizes many people have done their farming etc for Zerk stuff and are all fitted out. That means the revenue bonanza has died down and they need to chase people into farming other armor types to get things going again.

Ah kitten , you’re right!
Those bloody 10 cents I have to pay every time I want to harvest something or loot a monster!

Their revenue stream is simply drying up!

Good thing you figured it out!

what about trasmutation crystals?

LightningBlaze.4913:

It will be too strong. What is the trade off of this skill

1) being locked in short range with no reliable immunity skills (that is: in zergs you melt as the burning speed ends)

2) locked in fire attunement means not available on demand

3) needs positioning; making it telegraphed.

4) deals average damage

5) since rtl nerf a D/D lacks reliable gap closers..