Guild Wars 2

So the quality of chat in game is SERIOUSLY going down right now. Every 15-20 seconds in Lion’s Arch there’s a new bot message from a hacked account, spamming gold buying/power-leveling services from X website and what not.

However, I’ve noticed a vicious cycle about it all…

Gold is hard to come by in this game, making the idea of purchasing gold from illegitimate sources all the more attractive. I don’t approve of this, if anyone was already wondering. BUT – we’ve made gold so important to do everything in the game, that it’s easy to see why it’s such an attractive commodity.

-Waypoint costs go through the roof when you get level 50+
-WvW success is determined as much by how much cash you’re willing to spend, as well as how much coordination you can get between WvW guilds
-Even in WvW, you have to spend a lot of money to repair your gears

Until they can add in a secondary security measure, we’re going to have problems with people getting their kittens hacked, and in turn being used as a spam-bot in our chat channels. Until we can take some of the emphasis off of the in-game gold market, we’ll have a cadre of chinese gold farmers thinking they can sell us what we want.

We need to de-emphasize gold, and make it less attractive to players. This will keep anyone from pursuing illegitimate gold selling websites, which will lead to them leaving us alone. We can’t go after businesses in China, because they don’t have anything like the BBB – they get to do whatever they want and we’re powerless to stop it. BUT – that doesn’t mean we can’t make it non-profitable for them.

Thoughts?

Can we please have a section added to the “Report” feature specifically for “RMT Spam”. I don’t feel like “Spamming or Scamming” quite fit the issue, and want them addressed separately and severely. I’ve not been able to go 20 seconds in Lion’s Arch this morning without a new RMT message coming up from these CGF’s.

This kitten has to stop!

So I’ve recently created an article about my own perspective of the current trait system.

I find that many of the traits are boring, like the +5% damage ones. Likewise, some of the talents are far more attractive than a lot of the others, like the 20% cooldown reduction ones. However, neither of these contributes to the fun of playing a character, with the exception of the CD-redux traits allowing you to use more skills more often.

However, I know that there are always two sides to the coin.

Are you happy with the current trait system? What would you change?

I’ve created a new article on my blog to address what I see as a serious oversight by ANet in the mentality and deployment of the current trait system.

Long story short, we have trait trees full of boring nonsense like +5% dagger damage, etc etc. I’ve proposed a solution to this by cutting those boring traits out, replacing them with more fun/play-style provoking traits, as well as consolidating some of the effective, but not gameplay changing traits with more of the latter.

Thank you for reading, any criticism is welcome.
-LoreChief

I’m posting this here

It’s the latest entry in my blog which goes over the changes that I feel should happen to the trait trees for every profession. Long story short, cut the bullkitten/boring traits out, replace them with more fun/play-style provoking traits.

I hope I can count your support in tomorrow then when I post a list of traits that I’ve targeted for elimination. I’ll do a follow-up soon after that with my ideas for re-doing and replacing those that are left~

I ready it as “Zai-Tan”, similar to Xin Zhao in League of Legends. “Zin Zow”! Am I getting them both wrong? O_o.

I’ll be compiling a list of these traits for each class tomorrow to add to my previous blog post.

However, I’m surprised by the lack of any response to this posting…

Does anyone agree with or disagree with the idea that the boring and over-emphasized traits should be re-worked to create a tree of choices, rather than pigeon-holed builds?

I have a list, but there’s much more than this.

Traits
-I’m referring you to my already existent thread as well as my blog post for more information on this.

Engineers:
-Weapon Kits don’t keep up with standard weapons, due to them losing stats the second they equip kits like the flamethrower. Fix this!
-Mortar doesn’t have enough range to justify the name. It’s got a pitiful range, and should be easily twice what it currently is.

Thieves:
-Remove the LoS requirement for steal, and the shadowstep mechanics. I should be able to hop through walls to attack an enemy, up cliff faces, and over gaps.
-I want a mid-term length stealth skill in addition to the bit-piece stealths. Something like the spy from Team Fortress 2’s version of stealth would be just peachy.
-Get rid of our traps tree and replace it with something more fun. Either that, or let us lay down multiple traps of the same type when their cooldown wears off (or just give us 3 charges of traps to distribute where we see fit). Traps are boring as dirt.
-Give Thieves more weapon choices. The few we have quickly become boring and stagnant, especially when 2/3rds of our slot skills are some variant of a passive skill.

Mesmer:
-Fix the talents that aren’t stacking. Illusionists Celerity doesn’t stack with any of the phantasm cooldown reduction traits. Additionally, Duelist’s Discipline is about worthless of a master trait when it only affects one skill in the pistol tree.
-On that last note, we need to be able to dual wield pistols, because only having 2 pistol skills is crap, and lookskitten with things like a scepter.

Thank you for reading,
-LoreChief

We have waypoints and gates, why would we need mounts? Getting around cities easier? It’s already free to use the waypoints if you’re in the city already…..

agility = precision
strength = power
intellect = power
stamina = vitality
spirit = ???

The thing about the stats we have, is they are not named deceptively. Power is as good for warriors as it is for elementalists. If you changed it to “Strength”, everyone would wonder why the clothy mage had a lot of strength, when they were supposed to be focusing on Intellect? They both accomplish the same thing after all.

At first I wanted to say Ranger, but then I realized that the only reason I see so many of them is because it’s quite noticeable in WvW, what with all the “dead pets needing res’s” everywhere.

I now change my vote to Mesmer, because everytime I try to down a clothy in the middle of a x-zerg, I seem to just be killing another clone..

I have the ride armor elite skill – it’s clunky as kitten. I get an HP boost while I’m in it, but there’s like a 3 second response time between me USING a skill and it actually BEING USED. If it had the same response times as an actual player, it might have meant something :S. Oh, and if it dies – you die.

SyF.1693:

LoreChief.8391:

You cannot combo stealths. We have a debuff called visible, which gives us a period of time where we cannot re-enter stealth. You will likely use a stealth that will last for about 5 seconds, which is not enough time to sneak just yourself past the zerg, let alone a group.

Yes, you can combo stealth, shadow refuge, if not broken, gives six seconds of stealth, combine that with shadow trap and your stealth heal, gives 14 seconds of stealth. You’re using your credentials of how much you have played the thief to try to justify your points. I’ve been playing the thief for about 300 hours now, and I’m here trying to tell you that the thief may have weaknesses, but it’s not in PvP. You’re doomsaying this profession, even though there are several thieves in here trying to tell you that a different approach is required. You don’t need to go a trickshot build to be fine, in fact, I’ll link you my gameplay and build I shared in a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ainrQUZqGs

Okay even in your own video you’ve proven your point wrong. It’s either that or you don’t know what it means to “combo stealth”. If you use shadow refuge, you stealth for 6 seconds, and then you unstealth, have a period of “revealed” (sorry I was calling it “visible” earlier), and after that wears off, you can go into stealth again – that is not combo’ing stealth though.

You cannot have 14 continuous seconds of stealth, as you’ll always go through the revealed debuff after the duration of each individual stealth wears off.

The only reason I even mentioned my credentials on Thief is because AcidicVision decided to make the assumption that “I haven’t any time getting familiar with the profession”. It may have just been reflexive trolling on his part, but to turn a discussion about the viability of a play-style on it’s ear, so that you can instead go after an individual is crass and ornery.

Xavori.3768:

p.s. To the OP:

Before you poo-poo my ideas on the thief, keep in mind I’m a level 80 thief and have yet to lose a one on one fight in either sPvP or WvW. I’m sure it’ll happen eventually (in fact, I have an idea for an elementalist build that should be able to completely counter thief mobility), but so far, so good.

More importantly, so far, so much fun.

At this point in the game, being level 80 is not a certification of anything. You can hit 80 in PvE significantly faster than you could in WvW. SPvP clearly doesn’t apply as you can’t level there. That being said, you being level 80 means you’ve spent far more time in PvE where the skill requirement is substantially less than WvW.

Here’s the thing about 1v1 fights – they don’t mean squat in WvW, and they mean next-to-nothing in SPvP. 1v1’s don’t win towers, they don’t defend towers. In SPvP, they don’t get that many points for your team, and they don’t defend control points.

1v1’s are a great way of comparing the abilities of two opposing players, but running into them in WvW is restricted to “catching stragglers”, which you often do as a small assault pack.

I agree on your point about what stealth does amazingly well – ONLY under the condition that it’s able to be pulled off. When you start fighting against more competent players (which there are more and more of by the day), you won’t be able to simply land a backstab on them – at least not in a way that it’ll count for much. I speak from experience when I say that players can easily slink out of combat with you when you go into stealth. Even when I play against other stealth characters, it takes only a split second for me to see someone stealth, and withdraw out of distance from them.

You cannot determine the effectiveness of a Thief based entirely on the ineptitude of your enemy. If you do, you’ll find with certainty that you are really strong… when fighting noobs, and nothing more.

Sadaxer.1023:

I’ve played WvW with a Thief for a while now. There are lots of things I can do which no other profession can do. My mobility is so high I’m able to get to areas the quickest, check and look around and inform my team about the situation. If spotted, I can move so fast they won’t even bother chasing me. It once took around 20 people to get me down after running across the map for fun. You can use Smoke Screen and Cluster Bomb to combo up to around 10s of stealth to everyone around you, together with your heal that’s around 13s of stealth, enough to sneak past a zerg thats chasing you.

You can also catch up with runaways so quickly because of your awesome mobility. Escape from situations because of your awesome mobility. Seriously, I’d rather play Thief in WvW than anything else. They fit my playstyle perfectly.

You cannot combo stealths. We have a debuff called visible, which gives us a period of time where we cannot re-enter stealth. You will likely use a stealth that will last for about 5 seconds, which is not enough time to sneak just yourself past the zerg, let alone a group.

AcidicVision.5498:

- You can trait to blind people when entering stealth, that puts you at an advantage.
- You can trait to move faster in stealth.
- You can trait to get a 100% crit chance coming out of stealth That trait and assassins signet + heartseeker is plus TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY percent damage. …out of stealth.
- You can trait to heal while in stealth, along with shadow refuge this is akin to having a second healing skill. Which puts you at an advantage.
- You can trait to regain initiative in stealth which, allowing instance access to weapon skills while a target’s are probably still in cool down. This is an advantage.
- Weapon skills can be completely safe on whiff by triggering stealth + granting stealth bonuses. See: cloak & dagger for a hit confirmed guaranteed crit on heartseeker or pistol whip. Why? Because it put you in stealth.

At this point I’m just pretty sure you haven’t spent any time getting familiar with the class and finding it’s strengths and utilities and are just mad it doesn’t work the way you want. So it’s impossible for you to see any of the advantages or possibilities. They are there. And most people in WvW and sPvP alike are of the opinion thief stealth and trait combinations are too strong.

Even the thief players can sometimes admit the stuff we can do to people just isnt right.

Edit: Also, I can survive WvW encounters I might otherwise lose because I can turn freaking invisible. If you can’t escape combat using stealth, you are doing it wrong. Plain and simple. If you ARE escaping combat and situations where other classes would otherwise be stomped…congratulations, you saved yourself having to do the ten minute run of shame back from your base. And that also is a pretty kitten big advantage.

According to you, and most everyone else in this thread; the Thief is supposed to either spam clusterbombs into AoE’s and call themselves “support”, or they are supposed to “chase down stragglers”. Thank you again for enlightening me on the amazing roles that Thieves play in WvW.

Allow me to dissect the one build you’ve thrown up here.

> Trait to move faster in stealth
> Trait for blinding stealth
> Trait for 100% crit rate out of stealth
> Trait for healing while in stealth
> Use Shadow Refuge (which is by far NOT akin to a secondary healing skill)
> Use Assassins Signet (passive: power, active: 150% damage)

This is pretty accurate to the build you’ve provided

So, you’ve basically created a 1-hit build that depends upon the player doing 1 attack (which isn’t backstab but heartseeker?) while in stealth, amplified by sin signet and 100% crit rate. You’ll be doing roughly (30% crit damage + 150% for sin signet) 180% more damage with 1 heartseeker.

Congratulations, you just gave yourself the ‘visible’ debuff, and traited entirely so you could use ONE SKILL that will do realistically about 2K damage (effectively 1/12th of the HP of a non-glass-cannon’s health).

At this point I’m sure that every fight you’ve ever been involved with in WvW has been with a cadre of other players, whom you’ve mistakenly imposed their own damage numbers to your own, and are now under the assumption that all their damage and power was actually yours.

I, however, can safely say that I’ve spent all of BWE2/3, every stress test in between, and the first two weeks of launch, playing the Thief, playing them in WvW, playing them in PvE, playing them in SPvP. I have spent a considerable amount of time on the Thief, trying out every build from a quickness + unload pistol build, to the stealth-based and crit-based D/D, and even at one point attempted to specialize in the functionality-grab-bag that is shortbow combat.

I would de-emphasize the stealth playstyle more if you hadn’t already done enough by providing what would be an otherwise fully-loaded one-shot damage build if not for your lack of traiting into Mug. The build is not only ineffective at 1v1 combat, it will reliably get yourkitten destroyed in a group setting, and not just because you haven’t mentioned if you’d be using withdraw/roll for initiative.

The thieves specialties, as I’ve stated in other ways, are mobility and evasiveness. Two functions that are almost completely bypassed and moot if you decide to subjugate them both with gimmick-stealth. Running fast doesn’t count for squat when every other class can out range, out-AoE, out-damage, and out-heal/defend your every move. That is the reality we face as Thieves, and to think so otherwise is to be mistaken about the viability of depending on a 2-5 second stealth, and the underestimation of the entry-level skill requirement to play any other class.

You aren’t that clever.
You aren’t that strong.

They however, don’t need to be that clever to counter you.
They are, in a balanced way – stronger than you.

Thank you.

brazthemad.1504:

scorpion wire is amazing. poison/cluster combo for aoe weakness is amazing (halves affected targets’ damage). Stealth combo fields are ok. Smoke screen is fantastic. Finally, rogues move faster than ANY OTHER CLASS. Hands down. 25% movement at all times + swiftness on evade + shortbow teleport. How can you say that thieves don’t have a unique role to play in wvw?

I forgot, we have a job as mail carrier in wuvwuv. I can kill people with my blinding speed. I can run around a tower so fast that I vacuum all the air out of the fortress and suffocate the lord.

Elementalists also summon weapons that go over their actual weapons. They won’t lose stats when this happens, why can’t they pull something like this off with our weapon kits?

SyF.1693:

Thieves stealth is actually overpowered, there’s no counter to it and shadow refuge actually grants 6 seconds of stealth untraited. You cannot stomp stealthed players, you can resurrect in stealth. The only place that I could see an improvement for thieves is what they can bring to dungeons, but other than that I feel like there’s certain builds that are awesome, where others are still lacking.
Thieves are great gankers in WvWvW and great scouters because they move very quickly. They can pick enemies off of walls or pull people out of a zerg to crush one at a time. They can bring shadow refuge to res people somewhat safely. I like sitting at the jumping puzzles of maps waiting for people to kill or pull off of rocks to their deaths.

No counter to stealth? You’ve gotta be kidding me. Every class EXCEPT Thief has access to a wide array of AoE’s, which don’t care if you’re stealthed. Not only that, but the stealth only lasts for 2-5 seconds. Half the time when you use it, the enemy either shuffles around in circles to prevent you from landing an effective backstab, or they just move out of the way (it’s not like you go more than 33% faster while you’re in it). It’s almost humorous how easy it is in concept and practice, for an enemy to see me stealth and go “lol gonna move back a few feet now” completely preventing any advantage from stealth.

We lack any sort of power/presence on our own. You could only stomp that guy you s-wired out of his zerg because you also have a zerg with you to do all the killing work.

wouw.5837:

Scorpion wire+people on edge of a wall=win

and shortbow/area stealth always works, try to shoot clusterbombs in AoE fields to give massive boons

This is the only real utility I’ve found myself being able to bring to the field. Even then it’s not reliable. Why can’t you pull someone over a ledge? Why does it only work when the enemy has no obstructions in front of them? If I hooked you through the chest with my scorpion wire, and you’re standing in front of knee-high bricks, that should make it EVEN EASIER to pull you over.

metaphorm.6904:

you’re just wrong about stealth needing a rework. there is not and should not be permanent stealth in this game. it was the correct design decision.

if you are looking for a role in WvW try ranged support with a Shortbow, perimeter patrol (picking off stragglers), or just doing what every character can do and run supplies or use siege equipment. character class is much less important in WvW than in other aspects of the game.

Even I never said there should be an option for permanent stealth, however this goes back to my point about people being legitimately afraid of what was conceived in other games. You not only won’t entertain the idea of an intermediate-length stealth, you automatically assume that everyone wants the perma-stealth of WoW. If you’d actually read my idea for an additional stealth mechanic, you might have seen that.

The role of a shortbow Thief in WvW is not only something that EVERY PROFESSION CAN DO (again; we don’t have a role for thieves), we do it the worst. Our shortbow only has a range of 900, and in order to provide that support on defending towers or assaulting them, you quite literally shoot at your feet or shoot from their feet in order to reach them. Perimeter patrol, and as you mentioned – supply running (something everyone can do, your words) are poor excuses for a “role” that a Thief should have in ANY setting, let alone a battle field.

Stealth is a gimmick, it lasts for a few seconds, only to provide us with a single-use skill that serves only to make up for the fighting we missed WHILE in stealth. It doesn’t provide any sense of surprise, or even give you the upper-hand, which you should rightfully have if you’re invisible and about to perform a surprise attack! At no point in 1v1 combat does the Thief have a particular advantage due to stealth that isn’t outdone by competing class mechanics and skill variety – two things we lack.

Pyrocat.3984:

Dropkick.2751:

You can become invisible = opponents can’t finish you
You teleport away = opponent can’t finish you

This just isn’t true. Vanishing in stealth does not mean you can’t be finished. I’ve killed people who were stealthed and I’ve been killed while stealthed.

Teleporting away usually gives you a 3 second relief while they look behind them and run to finish you. It’s maybe enough to buy you some time if reinforcements are coming, but that’s it.

And if you would wait for the stealth to come up while you still haven’t used teleport, you would be perfectly able to escape in PvE.

This is great advice actually, I usually teleport as soon as it’s available. Thanks!

And it’s the best in dungeons where you can move away from AoE attacks.

Yes teleport does come in handy in dungeons with traps, but again, very hard to aim with the viewing angle (it probably doesn’t help that I’m asura).

Both the teleport and the stealth require a little bit of skill and knowledge on how to use.

Teleport will get you away from a stomp if you get far enough away (which you can do). The Stealth will save you from a stomp if you use it about 1 second BEFORE they stomp you. If you stealth 2 seconds before hand, you’ll re-emerge within a fraction of a second before they finish the stomp, meaning you kitten up – and will now be stomped.

Calling out my blog post.

The trait system needs to be purged of some very boring/mandatory talents. There are too many that are so powerful, that you’re pigeon-holed into using them if you pick a certain weapon or slot skill. These are traits that do things like; +20% recharge reduction on x-weapon skill, or the even more powerful ones like the Warrior has that give the cooldown reduction AND a second effect.

Additionally, there are too many frivolous talents like “+5% dagger damage” that are not only made for min-maxers, but prove to be less effective in the long-term, AND are boring to boot!

Traits should represent actual choices made by the player, that compliment how they want to play, rather than forcing a play-style on them. If you can say “they chose X weapon so they naturally took X trait, since it’s the only complimenting trait in that tree”, than you’re doing a great disservice to the players here looking for “FUN”.

Presenting my favorite example with Engineers:

Current ‘Fireforged Trigger’ – +15% damage with flamethrowers and elixir guns

My idea ‘Stay Out Of The Fire’ – Enemies that are burning due to Flamethrower will pass burning to their nearby allies

OR

’It’s Raining Fire’ – Flamethrower skills are now ground-targettable, and have a significantly increased range

Just like that, I’ve taken a boring flat-damage trait, and turned it into a CHOICE that the player will have to make. They can’t take both, but they can take one, and it will make a noticeable impact on the play-style.

Let me know if you’re listening ANet, I can redo all the trait trees for you if you want!

Thanks for reading,
-LoreChief

deviatebill.5071:

I’m kinda in two minds over this;
I love the whole 2 swords, slashing things up and just looking awesome…
But then I remember that this isn’t a rogue, it’s a thief. Much more lightfooted and quick, not clanging around with long pieces of steel hung around your waist.
But you can form an argument either way. Just as long as we don’t get an influx of “I wants teh maces liek rouges!”

Thief is supposed to be an all-encompassing archetype for a variety of similar classes, including; Assassin, Brawler, Thief (duh), Rogue. Different selected play-styles by the player should determine which one they are more akin to playing (some of us want to weild claws and pop out of the shadows – just because we’re called “Thief” instead of “Assassin” doesn’t mean we don’t have the same skill sets).

Here’s how Thief dodging should work (possibly when traited):

1) Thief activates a dodge
2) They instantly vanish for the duration of the dodge
3) You can’t tell where they just went, as you only saw them “blink” out of sight in a puff of smoke
4) Thief pops out of blink at their new location.

I think this is appropriate, provides a certain level of advantage that should exist with the most agile/tricky profession in the game.

I’ve stated this before in other places:

-Off-hand sword.
-Rifle
-Longbow (remove shortbow if you have to we need a long range weapon)

Our slot skills lack any sort of flexibility aside from a flurry of different looking passives. We need more variety provided in weapons as a result.

I think every different downed-state is unique in it being a survivable situation for different reasons. I don’t think the Thief is meant to deal any sort of /real/ damage while downed. They are meant to be annoying and hard to finish off, which they certainly do with being able to teleport and stealth multiple times in a short duration.

I actually feel bad for the Engineer and Elementalist downed states, as they have no immediate survivability associated with them, and pretty much get insta-stopped with no resistance.

Calling out my blog post.

Also calling out the original topic I did on this at GW2Guru.

Long story short, Thieves don’t really have a role in WvW. We can’t “infiltrate” no matter how many skills we have that are named that. Our stealth is a gimmick (more thoroughly explained in the above postings) – and needs a massive rework. It’s time to stop being afraid of the history of stealth characters.

They don’t need to be some sort of chained-up beast that you keep in a dungeon, they aren’t going to destroy everything ANet’s worked for if you give them a bit more practicality and function. Meeting their full potential doesn’t have to mean “ZOMG SO OP QQ I QUIT!”.

Let me know what you think, and check out the rest of my blog if you’re interested.

Thanks for reading,
-LoreChief

Hey everyone, I’ve put up a blog about GW2 here

I’ll be updating it regularly, and will cover every sort of topic related to the game.

Let me know if you have any criticisms, complaints or comments.

Thank you,
-LoreChief

Simply put, the damage and utility of skills like grenade and flamethrower don’t keep up with actual weapons like the rifle and pistols. I wanted to build around flamethrower, but it simply can’t do half the damage I can do with a rifle. Please buff the weapon kits!