Guild Wars 2

Kratos.6293:

There are many top tier MMORPGs coming out this year

1. EverQuest Next
2. Wildstar
3. The Elder Scrolls Online
etc

Does Guild wars 2 even stand a chance ? What do you think Arenanet should do to retaliate ?

Theres enough people to actually play all 4, they are also vastly different games and will attract different playertypes.

as for ESO: A game that before launch promotes itself as a “play it the way you want to” game and then proceeds with locking players out unless they invest an excess amount of cash into the collectors edition, then proceeds with adding on an ingame shop that according to statements will be purely for “fluff” (but will inevitably, and we all know it, contain a fancy upgrade to the CE); They then proceed with throwing together a very interesting PvP outdoor zone but then again, mess that up by adding a bonus that will in PvP grant the players who bought the CE a seriously unfair advantage.

So what we’re looking at is a game that is buy to play with a subscription model combined with an ingame shop built upon an engine that provides you with features that are barely good enough for a game from 2005.

Hawke.9013:

-snip-

I would say that it is called the “Holy trinity” because it has been the supreme power for a long period of time.. kinda like religion, and just like with religion when it was at its absolute peak in regards to power, we saw little to no advancements being made as any effort to break the norm was met with extreme reluctance..

Yes, dps,tnak,heelz does work. That is not an argument for not attempting something different. It is neither an explanation as for why certain things are the way they are in an enviroment where these 3 are not present in their regular form.

Oh and also if what you said about dungeons always needing a tank were true and thieves never being the ones who tank, then thiefs should just not have been able to solo dungeons as they’re not tanks nor able to do so

And here I was hoping that the request was for the actual time to be upped so that the 6min achievement would be possible to be done in 7mins

Me Games Ma.8426:

Lue.6538:

I’d love to have Echo, Backfire, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Sum of All Fears, Waste not Want not, Wastrel’s Demise and Wastrel’s Worry from GW1 brought back.

Echo

Wastrel’s Demise

Backfire, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Sum of All Fears, Waste not Want not

Fabulous, now to actually get them!

AlbertoUlkesh.4517:

Lue.6538:

… and then all you gotta do is shadowrefuge, heal up then 100b them to death with your longbow elementalist.

Why didn’t I think of that…

It is a common oversight, mind you there ARE other builds that also works against it but I’ve always found that one to be the most effective not to mention it is fairly easy to pull off.

Axelwarrior.9084:

Why 25 in dueling and not 15 in illusions?

Grumpy.6834:

Thanks for letting me know – will change it asap

This actually baffled me, why would you change that based upon a question from him? He made no point in attempting to explain why 15illu would be better than 25duel.

If you’re going to go into illusions you might aswell go to 20 for Phantasmal Haste even if it doesn’t trigger on the zerker, if I were to actually change my build to something even remotely close to what you’re presenting tho I would replace afew of the traits:

Domination is fine at 10(III) but under inspiration I would change Compounding Celerity for Persisting Images as it synergise better with your choice of compounding power under illusions.

I’d possibly skip all points in illusions and go for a full 30 dueling build with duelists discipline as the additional range for your Phantasmal Duelist is really nice to have for certain fights.

Gear wise I’d exchange one of the sigils of accuracy for a sigil of perception as if you can maintain the 25 stacks, you’re gaining an additional 2% crit chance from doing so.

But whatever works for you.

style.6173:

Just be happy they didn’t delete ranks like they had originally planned. Then the older players would have really been upset.

I would’ve prefered that, an absolute fresh start. Now imagine if they would’ve combined this with obliterating the craphammer .. Patch of the year!

PetricaKerempuh.7958:

fun=victory!?

Considering the state of the mesmer skills usually means the mesmer has no idea what is going to happen when he uses his ability, that instakill aura of yours is highly uncalled for.

And if you want to survive the thieves, do not poke them, do not make eyecontact, let them stealth up, attack you and then all you gotta do is shadowrefuge, heal up then 100b them to death with your longbow elementalist.

infantrydiv.1620:

skyhammer requires smart positioning

Signed,

Decap Engineer with 5 knockbacks

It is saddening to see what “smart” positioning has been lowered to.
When you positioned yourself in a clever way before you would in effect be playing to your strenghts or to your opponents weakness by either taking high ground or forcing them into an engagement they do not want to take it has boiled down to “hurrdurr dont stand on edge haz knockbackz”

Not to mention the cannon itself is just a poor implementation of a feature that already exists and is vastly better on Kyhlo.

I’d love to have Echo, Backfire, Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Sum of All Fears, Waste not Want not, Wastrel’s Demise and Wastrel’s Worry from GW1 brought back.

Minos.5168:

Try explaining that to everyone banned from crafting/salvaging Wintersday items.

See: http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/snowflake-exploit-results-in-bans-confusion/

Of course, if ArenaNet did come out in support of AFKing, that would just further encourage people to do it. Possibly causing further issues in future events.

I think they really need to do something to discourage/prevent it in the future.

Ultimately, the AFKers are griefing the rest of us.
They’re making the game less enjoyable.

Regarding the wintersday, How was that not obvious to those players? If you can in essence craft something and be guaranteed an INCREASED amount of salvaged objects from it then something is obviously seriously wrong and you should take a long and hard ponder wether or not it is worth risking it. Then when those players chose to repeatedly use it to pretty much just conjure up free ectos, it is just plain obvious they knew what they were doing and they expected to get away with it. Serves them right.

You then have the AFKers during this event, The content itself promoted AFKing for the first couple of days as the achievements were a milage easier to get merely by not participating in the fight.

That said if afking is griefing, then we’re going up into MOBA community levels of ludicrousness.

Nage.1520:

But….but….what about the true hero of the story.

We love you Evon!

We’re forgetting the hero that could have prevented this all from happening had he not been selling apples with Koss, Gwen, Keiran and the rest.

7o Two-Tibs A’whisker.

Zenith.6403:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Player housing is the ability to create – from scratch – a virtual dwelling customized to our own tastes. It’s about the freedom to creatively express one’s self in the game in a way that the home instance does not allow.

- There’s a game just for you. It’s called Sims.

In sims you take control over 1-8 characters, you shape their lives and you interact with the people around you.
In gw2 you take control over 1 character, you shape their story and you interact with both NPCs and other players.

And I’m sure that even an insignificant little omnipotent whelp like yourself is perfectly capable of comprehending the actual differences between the 2 games, why you choose not to is none of my concerns.

Zenith.6403:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

What’s more is, if you add in the ability for groups of players to collaborate together in the construction of an outpost, village, or town, you’ve now created a powerful community building tool.

- Simcity.

Now you’re just making up similarities that aren’t even there, in Sim City you take on the role of a mayor and you develop an entire towns infrastructure all by yourself, what is being suggested by Kraag is closer to Salem or one of the many survival games out there, where you build your own housing and then group together with other players to form a larger settlement.

Zenith.6403:

You’re asking for Anet to hand you over the whole developing environment so you a) can make a house for yourself b) add that house as part of the game world. You can make this happen if you spend some millions of dollars to buy majority share of Anet from NCsoft. Other than this way, it’s never going to happen.

Considering you just put the restrictions in play yourself: Have you invested these “some millions of dollars” and bought the majority of the stocks and can thus with certainty inform us that the development of housing is definitly not going to happen.. And if so could you perhaps wave your shares around abit and persuade them into fixing some of the other stuff that is currently abit whack?

sephiroth.4217:

What build can I use to shut everyone up? (not keen on blocking all chat either)
Gets a bit old that every match there is someone constantly crying about something wrong with a mesmer build….

Well, heres what you can do: Absolutely Nothing.
No matter what build you use people are going to rage at you for one of the following reasons:
– You do not play the match the way the selfproclaimed (but unannounced to the rest of the team) leader wants you to.

- You beat that fotm player on the other team and in a hissy fit he proclaimed that your build/profession is the wrong build/the easiest profession because technically he should have beat you there.

- You LOST to that fotm player on the other team and he explains to you with simple words(because he knows no other) that you should go play game X or go back to PvE because he clearly beat you with an inferior build.(Altho, if you should beat this one later, please see: “You beat that fotm player…”)

sephiroth.4217:

I’m rank 27 so I’m not a “pro” but I’ve had my mes for over a year as a solo roamer in WvW so I know my class well enough to know how to fight other people.

WvW is fairly different from sPvP but as a mesmer you’ve got plenty of options that works, it all depends on WHAT you are interested in doing in the matches.

Skyhammer, theres the entire problem with soloing atm.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Stealth should be the thief mechanic.

No.

Steal as well.

It is.

CptAurellian.9537:

Oh and Merlin, why exactly is complaining about a high frequency, no target limitation, 360° stun with a considerable damage output a consequence of “very easy” melee combat (which is still by orders of magnitude more challenging than range-noobing stuff) in other parts of the game?

If we ignore the “hurrdurr melee hard range easy” ludicrousness you’re spewing, the reason for melee heavy counters are very simple: There is a VERY limited amount of people who actually gets punished by a fight where standing on range is negative and standing in melee is positive.

Melee abilities tend to deal higher damage, that means you need some sort of downtime to balance out the differences between Melee and Ranged, as upping Ranged dps would be absolutely mental, the best way of doing it is forcing melee to have breaks in their DPSing.

If they make 2 bosses.. lets call them… BoB and TEST, BoB might be seriously punishing to people who stand in melee, thus forcing melee specs to move AWAY from the boss, cutting into their DPS time. TEST on the other hand is incredibly supermassively punishing to bosses who stand on range, so everyone just moves into melee and ignores that issue alltogether.

There is more to it ofcourse, but this is more or less why MMOs favor melee counterabilities.

May bob be ever in your favor.

Incredibly boring in large scale pve, but theres probably builds that make even that fun.

Zero Day.2594:

Damage Dealer when he sees a thief in group:
WOW
much unfair
very cheese
so buttery
disgusting
*The damage dealer leaves the group, exits the stage on the left side. *

Thief block best block.

medohgeuh.4650:

Blink and decoy your way out of the encounter and hope that there’s other friendly players nearby.

I love Mesmer, but 1 versus anything in WvW is pretty sucky for this class, thief being the worst encounter of all.

You must be playing a bad build, my mesmer has had no problems soloing anything except the occasional thief or ele.

Tutanchamon.2190:

Personally, i thing reward is good. Just imagine that reward will be for example 100g: Player A who is new to LS will complete his first meta, get liberator od Lion’s arch chest, and 100g from it. He will be happy. Now imagine player B, who is experienced and completed every LS meta, but from some reason he can’t patricipate in battle for Lion’s arch so he will not get 100g, but player A yes. Isn’t it unfair?I hope there will be some “final” chest, that rewards player with reward based on how many meta achievments he did. So player A will recieve small reward for BfLA meta, when player B recieve big one. This is fair.

That really is besides the point, if he lucks out and gets a value of 100g then that is fine, it is simply a matter of having “saved” the main hub of the game and instead of something interesting..all you get is a silly t-shirt.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Gah you guys don’t understand at all.

If you give everyone gold or a item worth a lot of gold then inflation will happen (i.e. more people have gold to spend, so more stuff gets bought – all prices go UP). You don’t want that!

Incorrect, an item that suddenly gets an influx on the trading post will by default drop in price through sheer shift in supply and demand; having a lack of supply is what raises the costs, not an excessive supply.

Besides that however.. I would much rather have been given a black lion ticket to claim for a weapon than a helmet of such dreadful design that not even the mittani would want it.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

If you give everyone legendary items, then it’s unfair on people who start GW2 in a month’s time as they won’t be able to get it. Remember that GW2 is designed so that skill > gear and they don’t want people in unobtainable gear.

While handing out legendaries sounds pretty extreme and nothing I’d say should be done, it IS fitting that the grand finale provide something of value.

I’d rather have seen the rewards be similiar to the karka queens for this event considering the sheer impact this had compared to southsun. Fun fight tho, aside from the fact that the way it is set up it allows people to afk their way to the achievements.

Boneheart.3561:

Is the assault on Scarlet too exhaustive to leave enough focus on shutting down miasma?

The problem with the way it’s set up is that if you’re in a group that just barely makes the timers, you’re looking at about 40? minutes of fighting which leaves you little time for running around doing the events surrounding it.. Especially considering everyone is after the champions at first..

Malediktus.9250:

Getting loot is all about doing enough damage. So go berserker people.

This is flat out wrong.

I’ve tested the following classes with item stats:
berserker phantasms mesmer
soldier GS guardian
Carrion conditions necromancer
Rabid bleed elementalist

Now to begin with, I’ve done the fights both in groups and solo with all the characters and I’ve on purpose limited my DPS in some of the cases in an effort to determine this “damage threshold” that some of you believe in.

Out of 19 kills so far, I’ve gotten loot 11 times and I can say that the damage concept is flat out humbug.

With the mesmer I’ve participated in 9 fights, 3 group, 6 solo and gotten loot 5 times.
With the necromancer I’ve had 3 fights, 2 group, 1 solo with 1 loot received.
With the guardian its been a marvelous run, 4 fights, 2 group, 2 solo, all 4 times have contained boxes.
And that leaves the elementalist: 3 fights, 1 solo 2 group, 1 loot.

What is interesting is that it hasn’t mattered at all wether or not I was in a group or not, how much damage I did or when I engaged the boss.
For example: I reached the red knight on my mesmer roughly when it hit 80% health, got the boon, fired a Magic bullet at it and that was all it took to get the 6 deluxe gear boxes and ofcourse, bronze contribution!
Another example would be with the necromancer.. a well of suffering at roughly 40% health on the green knight was enough to get my share of the loot.

Both of the aforementioned were done solo so I did not share any form of contribution from groupmembers, this leads me to believe that there either is:
1) A severe bug in the way contribution is calculated for the loot.
2) The damage treshhold is below 26 damage
3) The damage treshhold is a figment of imagination
or 4) The loot distribution is simply random among the players who have acquired a minimum amount of contribution.

I’ve seen no difference in the loot acquired regardless of how much I actually contributed to the kill but rather it simply appeared as dumb luck.. I just wish I had an actual larger datasample to use.

Sensotix.4106:

PS: Therefore I will make a video in which I collect ideas from other players i think know enough about the game to bring things forward and also to say what I think

I too shall make a video in which I collect idaes from other players I think know enough about the game to bring things forward, but I wont say what I think, because I find that I have fairly little interest in what I have to say, as I tend to agree with myself most of the time anyway.

yearsonehundred.6139:

I ended up beating Liadri today. Over 300 tickets spent, and it turned out to be as simple as purchasing gear with more toughness. All the while, the unnecessary annoyances and punishments just dragged it down. They simply aren’t necessary, and they detract from what could have been an amazing content addition full of great challenges.

I’m still not seeing anything punishing about the QG and I firmly believe that you’re simply using the term faulty, but I think we’ve covered this in our previous posts, congratulations on defeating Liadri tho!

yearsonehundred.6139:

Lue, I apologize for sounding irritated toward you. You are entitled to your own opinions and thoughts, and getting upset toward you was incorrect of me. I still believe you’re wrong, but I do appreciate the time you’ve spent responding with your own feedback to this post.

And I still believe you’re wrong.
However quite frankly I’m done with this subject, there will be no changes made och while it has been a somewhat interesting back-and-forth here, I’m just done.
I hope you enjoyed the gauntlet tho, I know I did.

Wethospu.6437:

Lue.6538:

—
What Wethospu said was n absurd simplification and not entirely correct, players do approach things differently when the risk changes as such, it’d be different, exactly how is however speculative.
—

True, but in this case the risk isn’t that big that you would play any differently.

Seeing as this is all speculative, we can simply agree to disagree on this.

Thezy.4136:

I think Lue, that you should read his posts again.

I’ve read it quite afew times but I thank you for the suggestion and I politely cast it aside.

Thezy.4136:

-He has nothing against challenges. Therefore he doesn’t want the gauntlet nerfed.
-He is simply pointing out the unnecessary annoyances that doesn’t need to be there at all. They should have nothing to do with the content being challenging.

It’s the challenge itself that separates good players from bad ones and the unnecessary annoyances should have nothing to do with this so getting rid of them would not harm the better players and their experience. It would only make it a more enjoyable event for everyone.

That is only true if everyone agrees on what a nuissance or annoyance is, you dislike the queue, I actually don’t mind it as it gives me time to prepare for the next round or review what went wrong in the previous fight.

I’ve adressed this before tho and I’ve got no interest in repeating it, so we’ll just disagree on this.

Thezy.4136:

Punishing players like this is actually bad design for every playerbase. You also have to keep in mind that new players may not even be able to try this event to the full because of some of these things. If this content was here to stay then new players could grow their resources and do it later, but since it’s not here to stay, this is not okay… Thus while I understand that some players may like to lose something when they fail, I think it was a wrong move here since it’s just a short event and hurts only new players and very casual ones with low resources.

Queues, bugs, bad camera etc etc… Now these should not be there in any case.

The Gauntlet is confirmed to be returning, as such the content is here to stay and players can thus grow their resources and do it later.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Um, I actually had a list of Punishments concerning the Queen’s Gauntlet. I’d suggest you go and read them carefully, without your tinted lenses on.

A Majority of these so called “Punishments” are not unique to the Gauntlet and some of them are not a design error but may be percieved that way when approached from particular vantage points as a player.

Some of them are also flat out lies, such as your claim that dynamic events blocks access to the content and to be honest, I did not experience any issues with the camera.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Reducing penalty does not equate to diminishing the Challenge. Rather, it provides unobstructed access to to the Challenge without all the gunk in the middle that limits and blocks access.

Reducing penalty encourages players to take a vastly different approach to the content, the less penalty you have, the more “head on” a player will engage the encounter and the less likely they are to stop and observe what is going on.

yearsonehundred.6139:

I’m glad that you’ve had such good luck with queue times – I personally get queue-robbed a bunch. Or, even worse, I wait to queue so that I can resurrect someone, and then the person I resurrected hops up and quickly queues before me. So I’m happy for you, but unfortunately, your consistently good experiences do not match up with mine.

My point is that this is anecdotal, it is a piece of data that changes between players, as an argument, it holds little value.

That said, I would prefer the queues over non-queues, I would prefer non-instanced over instanced, simply because I enjoy watching other players approach the content aswell, this is hard to do with the way it is formed now, but with it being instanced, it’d be impossible.

All that aside however, you can impact your queues by choosing less populated domes, it is something you need to decide for yourself however: Is it worth spending more time in queue but with a likelyhood of being revived contra less queue but potentional waypoint runs.

[[/quote]

The statistic was just a quip, but you’re right, I deleted it – it didn’t add anything to the post. And I never said that nobody found the Gauntlet fun, although I did do a lot of reading on this forum beforehand to I could see if anyone else agreed with me – and finding that the majority of people did at least to some degree was not surprising to me.

Based on how you’ve worded it in your initial post:
_one thing that always stuck out to me was the idea that it would be built around the concept of “Fun”. Fun was the drive behind the game – if something wasn’t deemed Fun, then it would be revised or eliminated. _
In combination with what you wrote later on in the posts would imply that “The Gauntlet should be revised, noone finds this fun.”, What you are seeing is a minority of very vocal and very upset players that either dislike the content or simply can not complete it for various reasons. Most players will probably not even set foot on the forums.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Instead, I simply said that Punishment isn’t fun, but I would indeed have to take that back, as several players now have come and said that they enjoy Punishment. So then, I would have to maintain instead that Punishment is against the original design mandate of ArenaNet, and it was what first drew me to GW2 back in March 2007.

Fun is subjective, this game has exactly 2 death penalties(or punishments as you liek to put it) in place:
1. Repaircosts
2. Waypoint Teleportation

Both of these combined will cost you less than you can get by selling a single piece of Orichalcum Ore or completing 1 group event.

Furthermore I’m certain you aren’t really trying to claim that by implementing a non-instanced 1player Arena that has the aforementioned death penalties in place, that they’ve distanced themselves from the initial concept of “fun”.

yearsonehundred.6139:

This is entirely untrue, and is very slandering on your part. Actually, my whole point can be summed up by what Wethospu said:

What Wethospu said was an absurd simplification and not entirely correct, players do approach things differently when the risk changes as such, it’d be different, exactly how is however speculative.

As for slander, you summed everyone who enjoy the gauntlet up as this:
_If you do think it’s fun, you are either A) Seriously messed up, Lying, or C) Way too rich for your own good. _

That is all.

Bud.5617:

Oh great so you don’t even need to get your hands dirty coz you have AI to do it for you.

You realize all other power based classes need to risk their health getting into melee range in order to spike – right?

You realize that mesmers have all their damage come from either clones or phantasms, both which suffers from dreadful AI and can easily be killed?

Bud.5617:

Of course Mesmer had to be special, they only need to push one button, once to win, the AI will take over. At least HS spamming thieves had to push that button repeatedly and get into melee. Hey I know it’s like the easy button that clicks itself! How is that for skill?

Reductio ad absurdum, google it scrub.

Bud.5617:

Mesmer beat just about everything else in 1v1 except for warriors.

They only sucked because of the condi build meta, but their spike is still among the strongest. Also they pretty much counter ALL other power build except the warrior’s, given how hard it is to pin them down otherwise given a ton of evades.

And when Mesmer wins, it’s not even because of skills coz they just pop clones one after another like there’s no tomorrow, each dealing a goodly 3-4k of damage per shot, while the main one can just focus on surviving. Anyone fighting them on the other hand will have plenty of things to keep them busy such as dodging the endless spike.

Actually I think Mesmer spike or survivability could use a few hit by the nerf bat.

just thought I’d point out that an endless spike isn’t a spike and that our spike actually has to walk up to you to deal the damage, unless its a phantasm ofcourse, in which case you can just evade or block and we wont even get it to spawn… And even after all this, rangers think their pets have it bad

Phalanix.7542:

Get her shadows to walk into the white circles. They’ll be destroyed and drop an orb. You need to toss 3 orbs at Liadri to remove her immunity. Check Dulfy’s site.

pretty sure the “4th” challenge is the final boss of the first tier, which requires him to stand in the vortexes to be able to damage her AND avoid the massive damage attack.

Katz.5143:

You can really tell which people actually read the entire OP and then reply based on that and which people instead are “oh noes, words” and don’t read the entire post and then reply in the typical learn to play manner.

First of all, he is giving feedback, not asking how to beat the champions.
Second of all, he wants challenging.
Third of all, he doesn’t think walking back from the waypoint is fun or challenging. He doesn’t think waiting in a long queue is challenging. He doesn’t think staring at the blurred insides of his character due to the camera not showing what is front of him as challenging. He doesn’t think lagging out when a zergfest appears below him in the other part of the Queen’s pavilion is a challenge. He thinks that is punishing. The word I would have used for those things is annoying.

He thinks that fighting the actual target is the enjoyable challenging part.

And based on that he is giving feedback to ANET in hopes that they will improve future offerings. You may, however, consider all the things that he found punishing and that I find annoying as good features that improve your enjoyment of the game.

If you actually found that walking back from waypoints, waiting in queues, zergfests below you, and the camera not showing you what you should be able to see as fun and a pleasant and needed addition to make the experience challenging and want more of that in future encounters then by all means encourage ANET to have that feature more abundantly.

First of all: Hes complaining about pretty much everything not being challenging but rather being “punishing”, the fact that GW2 has almost nothing that actually “punishes” you is something hes neglecting entirely.
Second: He may claim he do, but having seen his comments in this thread, I’m going to say no, he doesn’t want challenging, he wants to reduce the difficulty by removing the penalty of just mindlessly zerging the gauntlet without observing the fights.
Third: The longest queue I’ve had yet is roughly 1½-2minutes which in my view is perfectly acceptable, the waypoint is a swing and miss however, theres no reason there couldnt have been a waypoint in the center upstairs with connecting bridges to each of the domes.

Furthermore he is basing his entire claim on that noone finds this content fun, which is flat out false, he also makes up his very own statistics to back up his statements and that provides completely flawed data and as such messes up the actual information that COULD be used as feedback.

This isn’t feedback, its another “nerf the gauntlet” topic masqueraded as one.

Wyvy.7430:

The reward is not worth the time.

It was infact the most worthwhile thing I’ve done in a game for quite some time.

yearsonehundred.6139:

-kitten -

Lets break A B and C down then: I’ve got exactly 201 gold on my account, I DID enjoy the content so that leaves me being messed up, and you base that on the fact that you didn’t enjoy content that, based upon your post, would indicate that you infact just couldn’t handle the difficulty. you then attempt to masquerade your grand failures within said content by making a absolutely fabulous list of is vs isn’t that doesn’t even hold true one bit.
But hey, since you’ve successfully determined that content that isn’t fun for you, must not be fun for anyone, I thought we’d break down your list into bitesized chunks before having the taste send these chunks flying in a remarkable cascade of bile.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not forcing players to respawn at a waypoint that costs money in order to play a minigame.

You’re not forced to respawn at the waypoint, if you would’ve picked a platform with more people on it, you’d be revived, people do revive and if theres atleast 3 players at a dome, you can be certain that you will be ressed.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not forcing players to respawn after a failed match at all.

So you don’t want to be punished for failing content, that has flat out never been a good idea in MMOs simply because people who aren’t punished for dying aren’t going to learn anything at all and when their ‘rush in and hit things’ strategy falls short, they go on the forums and start making pesky lists of why their fun is ruined.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not doing the previous, and then having a dynamic event that blocks the pathways to the Queen’s Gauntlet with very difficult enemies that can easily take you out.

This one amuses me greatly because this is not a problem at all, there are several paths to take up to the gauntlet and if you HAVE to use the one that is currently blocked by the destroyers, well then it is you and not I that is messed up.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not giving armor damage for a failed Gauntlet match.
Can you imagine if armor damage applied to Belcher’s Bluff, the Keg minigame, Southsun Survival, the Aspect Arena, and other minigames?

That you’re unable to see the difference between the gauntlet and belchers bluff, keg brawl, southsun survival and the aspect arena is yet again amusing.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not requiring tickets to play, and then making them cost a boat-load of money (for players of average and moderate means) to purchase in small quantities, or making them requiring farming and grinding.

If you are interested in achievements, which I asume as you are shutting down the rewards from the gauntlet, you should be able to understand this: theres a bunch of NPCs in the center that has an achievement linked to them, talk to them, receive a boon and go kill 100 mobs, while you kill these 100mobs you are going to pick up enough silver and watchsprockets to buy the tickets for the gauntlet.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not allowing awful camera angles to interfere with gameplay.

Haven’t experienced this, maybe you’re controlling the camera poorly?

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not having a queue for a minigame.

Apparently queuing is a challenge for you so I’d disagree.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not putting a time and movement critical minigame in the same instance as another gameplay aspect that results in incredibly lag-causing zergs.

Didn’t experience this at all.

yearsonehundred.6139:

Challenging Is Not allowing dozens of bugs work their way into the “finished” product.

This isn’t Challenging, it isn’t Punishing either, just like your made up statistics, this is just a completely unrelated topic.

yearsonehundred.6139:

These (and more that I can’t think of) are not Challenging, they’re Punishing.

Well, no.
GW2 has close to nothing punishing at all, a death costs you about 2-2.5silver and some time running from the nearest waypoint, that is all.

yearsonehundred.6139:

If I had to wager a made up statistic (yeah, I know how lame those are, but bear with me), I’d say that it’s 25% or less Challenging, and 75% or more Punishing.

This really summed up your post in a fabulous manner.

Also, fun is subjective, you didn’t enjoy it, I did. I didn’t enjoy the zergfest downstairs tho, but maybe you did?

bhagwad.4281:

Lue.6538:

bhagwad.4281:

Never want content like this in the game again. I just beat her, but that was a harrowing two days. Don’t want to put myself through it again.

Of if you are, then stage it in the heart of the mists without penalties, no armor breakage, and the ability to choose any setup you want.

What, so you can complain about Anet favouring PvPers all of a sudden? No, nay, never.

Wha? How does anyone lose by having it in the heart of the mists. You know all gear and traits are free right?

Yep, I know that.
However heart of the mists is for the PvPing players, since you’d be bringing PvE content in there, we’d suddenly have PvE players there, and since we all know PvE players enjoy finding the most minor concerns and shine the worlds brightest spotlight on them, we’re bound to have someone complain about how positioning the gauntlet in the mists would be favouring PvPers.
Perhaps it’d be because they’re already logged out in there and thus have no additional loading screen?

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

I don’t have a problem with new mechanics, but good game design (IMO) teaches players while it goes, or gives players opportunities to experiment without a high cost.

The Gauntlet requires players to jump through a lot of hoops before they can even enter the ring. Most players, who have become familiar with their current setup are suddenly tossed into a fight with an unknown opponent, with unknown mechanics, without any real way of figuring out before hand what to do (aside from third party sites).

So, what can end up happening is that players are hit with a new mechanic, killed, and thrown out of the ring (or the time runs out without any indication of how long you had to begin with, or have left), and required to start all over again.

The player is then required to begin costly experiments in the hopes that something will work. However, because many bosses have multiple mechanics, what you’ve just learned to counter, may be only one thing in a chain of mechanics, requiring players to once again start over.

You keep saying theres a high cost to this gauntlet, but I’ve yet to see it, I’m short a single achievement until I’m completely done with it and I’ve yet to spend over 1g (including repairs and tickets bought).

So in all fairness, I’m not seeing the same costs that you are, there are some, but a 1s/death reparation bill isn’t something ’d call high.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

So, when I’m saying “lazy” I’m not talking about the mechanics, or the difficulty. I am talking about everything surrounding the fight. Nothing else has been properly fleshed out to allow players the opportunity to learn, adjust, experiment, or practice. If you don’t have good gear, or weapons (or the ideal combination, or the right character), you may never know why something isn’t working.

I would have liked to see them offer a section that gave players a minimal/free chance to practice similar mechanics. Allowing other players a place to socialize, discuss, and try would be much more MMO and less single player Dulfy.

I dunno, I could go on with a bunch of ideas, but the point is that it is lazy to just throw bosses into a game for a relatively high cost, and then not build structures around those bosses to help players learn and adapt without penalty.

I’d like to see it be something more like the brawlers guild from world of warcraft in terms of layout, where you’ve got a clear view over the battle going on as a spectator and theres tons of opportunities to actually discuss how to approach the various mechanics. Now I’m not saying people at the brawlers guild actually discusses tactics, but atleast you got a proper view and the opportunity to both observe and discuss tactics ARE present, unlike here.

I wouldn’t want the mechanics to be present all over tyria tho, the challenge kinda lies in having to face something unknown and learn how to counter it.

So to get this straight, you want to have Anet ban people for using a third party program that is in no way connected to GW2 thus effectively dictating WHAT people run alongside GW2?

Yes, I’m sure that is a glorious idea somewhere else.

Aktarus.5612:

Or maybe anet can just fix their kitten CAM since 1 year…and targeting system too.

But you were just offered a solution to the camera issue, and the targeting isn’t a problem at all as you just need to set up a called target and then use the assist key to re-target liadri if you in some mysterical way manages to lose your target.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

To be fair, there is more than just the battle with Liadri. For example, there is a boss that shoots a fire ring. Now in almost all other places in GW2 I can run though fire, and take some amount of damage.

In this fight however, crossing the fire line means instant death. Getting shot by the fire is almost instant death, and if you don’t keep moving after that, it is instant death.

Ah, Salazan.
This boss took me 2 attempts because the description underneath the boss says something like “Lethal Ring of Fire” and I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to stand inside it or if I were ment to leave it before X time transpired, so I tried exiting it with a blink and flat out died.

while I understand that the fire waves may be of some concern for most players, it just reminded me of Sartharion, a boss that summons up a firewall that forces you to position yourself in the gaps provided, the fire waves just work the same.. you stand infront of one and when it gets close enough, you step aside.. not a difficult strategy to master and truly not a “one-shot mechanic” that leaves you no room to actually investigate what is going on.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

When you step in there the first few (or in my case 5) times, and each time these new mechanics happen, you are required to react. If you choose poorly, you start over. Other examples of this is the boss with the tornados. I got knocked around and killed over 20 times in that fight before I got lucky and the boss got “stuck” on the side of the dome.

This is another one of those “New mechanic, how to respond to it” issues and nothing else, the main problem here probably lies in the majority of players being opposed to changing up their build and to be perfectly fair, so am I..
But the approach should be something alon the lines of:
ok, I got knocked around alot, what can I do to counter that? Do I have anything that can provide me with stability? Is there anywhere I can position myself to avoid being hit? Can I prevent the tornadoes from spawning in the first place?

In most cases of GW2 you’re capable of just bruteforcing your way through mechanics and thats fine, but the problem with bruteforcing is that you may not be prepared for some newer mechanics presented to you.

All in all the main issue here is probably that you can’t properly observe other players in the arena, if you could, then alot more people would be beating bosses they’re currently stuck at, regardless of which one it is.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

There are of course some players that will, by default open a wiki, or watch a video. Many though, prefer to play the game. I have completed all but one jumping puzzle in the game, and I didn’t use an external source for any of them. The reason was because there was no time pressure involved.

I never felt like I only had a short time to complete the task, so if it got the better of me, I simply came back another day and tried again. In the case of the Living Story, players are under much more pressure to use their time efficiently. That means they can’t afford to casually work out the mechanics of a boss fight.

Third party sources will always be relied upon by some players, but that shouldn’t be an excuse for lazy game design.

I can’t do much more than agree, unfortunately the way the living stories go, you’re under a time-schedule so you will be investing additional time to learn the fights and then that dulfy guide may be looking mighty tempting, but personally I find that it takes away quite abit of the satisfaction of having beaten the content on my own if I were to use said guide.

As for lazy game design, theres only so many mechanics you can use, and when the game doesn’t use the “holy trinity” it alters quite abit what mechanics you can use that actually pressures the players, the approach GW2 is taking is quite frankly new, so I’m withholding any statements of what is or isn’t lazy designs.

Well, a lie might be a bit of an exaggeration. This content scales all players up to level 80. It doesn’t however scale armor or weapons up. So, if you’re having issues fighting one or more bosses due to your current armor / weapon configuration, you may be required to spend gold to adjust to the fight.

Upgrading weapons and armor, buying food, and better accessories are all examples of where a player may be required to spend gold.

So, I don’t think it is fair to say it is a lie, I think it falls within the realm of reasonable possibility.

Fair enough, lie might’ve been abit too harsh, but it was in my opinion a severe exaggeration of a more or less non-existant problem.

As we wont be seeing it for this particular living story, I’d love to see the gauntlet be made into a proper arena where you can actually see the combatants from abit closer.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

10. “Everyone, I beat the boss!……everyone…hello?”

Problem
The tier system makes no sense. Some bosses are easier than others and in the end putting them in tiers really doesn’t matter. What is worse is that you don’t really get an achievement for defeating a boss. It seems so anticlimactic to just pop out after a fight and be standing there. No achievement, no fanfare, just a shrug.

Solution
Each boss should have an achievement. That would allow players to see the list and work their way though what to many is most important, beating the boss. The gambits are for those players who want extra hardcore achievements. The satisfaction of at least seeing each boss checked off the list with some points for my trouble would be a lot nicer.

11. Dome Buggy

Problem
It’s buggy. Quite simply this place has more bugs than Internet Explorer 3.1. For a long list of the bugs, see the bugs, or Queen’s Jubilee sections of this forum.

Solution
Fix them. Or, try to not create time limited content in a short production window that hasn’t had time to be properly tested.

12. WikiDulfia

Problem
Difficult content is totally cool. Content that insta-wipes you and doesn’t even give you a chance to figure out the mechanics is worse, put time limited content in the game is horrible. These three factors means that many players must resort to third party sites to figure out how to beat the boss. You may as well put out a magazine called “ArenaNet Power” that gives tips and tricks because for some, they just have no other means of sorting out the mechanics.

I went straight online after the first fight because after blasting through 5 tickets, I realized I don’t have the time to waste getting insta-wiped and starting all over.

Solution
The game should be self contained. Players should be able to solve the mechanics of the game without having to resort to online tutorials or forum posts to do so. If the mechanics are designed as such that they’re too unforgiving, or too vague, you need to rethink what is happening.

---

Notice I didn’t say anything about the difficulty? I am not here to slam how difficult or challenging it is. Other than the limited time available to learn and beat the fight (remember how we complained about the last dungeon, or the Trials ANet?), it is pretty ok.

The problem is when you add in all these other factors, what could potentially be an amazing activity becomes a long, drawn out, expensive, and frustrating experience for many players.

I have more ideas in terms of arena design, and such, but I’ll leave that for now.

Regarding 12, because you’re arguing from the standing point that Liadri actually instantly kills you without you having a chance at trying out the mechanics and thus figuring out how the fights work. This is a false claim as we have huge red circles showing us where to avoid standing, white vortexes that combined with the boons the boss have gives you a hint to what you’re meant to do, and walking into one of the visions of mortality one time will be enough to tell you to avoid doing it again.

Regardless of how you do content, people are going to go to the wiki or dulfy or curse or mmo-champion or whatever other source you may think off that might provide them with a quick fix for their failing, that is not the contents fault, that is the mentality of the players.

As for your other points I mostly agree, but I’ve yet to experience the camera issues you and everyone else seems to be having(Adressed in point #3 on your behalf).
However 9 is also a blatant lie, you’re not required to spend gold on this aside from the repaircosts, which you will easily cover by the time you’ve farmed the tickets, combined with the full reward of 3.5g (50s,1g,2g) you’re actually able to obtain quite a profit from it. There is no requirement nor necessity for the various buffs and while they do help, it is as always perfectly volountary to actually buy and use them, this is again not at all related to the content.

Aside from the above you’ve got the right idea!
You deserve an imaginary jaffacake, my treat!

bhagwad.4281:

Never want content like this in the game again. I just beat her, but that was a harrowing two days. Don’t want to put myself through it again.

Of if you are, then stage it in the heart of the mists without penalties, no armor breakage, and the ability to choose any setup you want.

What, so you can complain about Anet favouring PvPers all of a sudden? No, nay, never.

mesmer: 15/30/0/25/0
sword/pistol scepter/sword
feedback, signet of inspiration, blink, hounds of balthazar

14 tries alltogether.

Raine.1394:

It’s interesting in that it seems that very good players succeed about 25% of the time against this boss. That would indicate that there is a factor beyond player skill at work here. And, it would seem to be the Anet factor: luck. Sometimes, with Anet, the only error that you made was entering combat. Hopefully, this dynamic will work itself out of the game as the average age of developers increases naturally over time.

Made up statistics, LOVE IT! I rate this 8/10.

As for the actual fight: Figure out the pattern and you’ll get her down easily, it is very static. Oh, and kill the orbs, asap, you can get into melee with them before they yank you.

You’re not going to catch a thief that is teleporting around with infiltrator’s arrow, just sit on the points and he will have to come to you.

As for pros and cons it completely changes based upon what build the player uses.

Seyu.2981:

I dont know if im the only one but im looking at videos (how to beat liadri) and i keep seeing red circles on the floor. When im fighting her i cant see a circle which its kinda difficult especially in phase 2.
Anyone got same prob or a fix smth?

This topic is for the individiuals who don’t actually attempt to learn the fight so I highly doubt that, but odds are you’ve disabled area of effect rings under gameplay options.

And to those struggling with the blind: Post-processing : None, under graphic settings completely removes that effect.

They did fix Adnul because he was also impossible to beat without luck / hp regen bug

Thats a load of asura dung, Adnul was beatable just fine, he was hard but definitly beatable.

shibby.7219:

All those in favour of having the difficulty reduced on this boss: (post a comment to show your support and your ideas on how to fix the issues)

From the mountain of bugs:
-snip-

The Rifts: I actually thought those were built around being hit only by melee as being able to kill them from range would’ve just made things so much easier.. If they’re meant to be killable from range then by all means it should be fixed tho.
The Camera: Really, I’ve had absolutely no problems at all with the camera, in any of the fights.
The Targeting System: While the GW1 system is a favourite of mine, this one works just fine. What you want to do is make sure you call target on liandri and thus you can just hit “assist” to focus her.
Previous Bosses Not Despawning: Haven’t seen this one yet, but I’ve seen players end up being in a duo.. windcaller+Liandri vs a Thief + Guardian? Lets just say it wasn’t a fair fight.

In reality tho: None of these are actual arguments for reducing the difficulty, the top one is either a bug or intentional, I’m not sure which, but if it needs fixing it would definitly not be “nerfing” the fight. The next 2 are game mechanics and doesn’t actually warrant a nerf. And the last one is a nuissance, an annoying little bug that needs to be squished, again, it doesn’t quite warrant a nerf when it is an unintended difficulty you get thrown your way tho.

Attacks
The AOE (overpowered I think the pattern should remain the same as phase 1 or either reduce the damage)

• The clones* ( same issue reduce damage)

Clearly designed for hardcore gamers. I wouldn’t mind the one-shot downs so much if it was a group event like in a dungeon but not in a 1vs1 fight, it’s just like quick scoping on CoD, just leaves a bad taste in your mouth

Right, onto the attacks:
The AoE is really simple, if you can’t avoid it, you simply haven’t been paying attention and if you haven’t paid attention, you really don’t deserve that exotic minipet.

See attachment for the pattern it follows in both P1, and P2. The way itt rotates leaves you with half the room safe at all times, if you keep walking in a circle, you’ll always be as safe as you can be stuck in a dome with someone whos trying to kill you until you die.

The Clones: The concept behind them is to not get hit, getting hit by them is hard, in P1 it is all about positioning yourself, and in P2 they’re of no importance as they will all be left far behind if you keep running in aforementioned circle.

As for comparing this to quickscoping? I would rather refer to Havel The Rock from Dark Souls, he is prone to get you downed in one hit, but if you learn his moves, you’re going to take him down and when you do, there will be no sour taste.

shibby.7219:

Arenanet need to remember not everyone is a hardcore gamer what happens to the casual games that arenanet are excluding with theses events. Not everyone wants to play a berserk practically all the guides online used a berserker build

I know a lot of people are complaining about this on the forums, and I think with good cause there are many issues that need resolving.

Right so because people haven’t been able to beat something within a couple of days, it is too hard and arenanet only caters to hardcore players? Big newsflash friend: There is 0 content in GW2 for hardcore gamers.

Now the moment we actually got a challenge, you want to have it nerfed because you’re not willing to learn the mechanics, why not just scrap the boss? Infact heres a thought: Why not make it so bosses in dungeons are “linked” to your account, so if you’ve beaten them once you get to choose wether or not you want to battle them again the next time you enter a dungeon, or if you just want to open the chest again. (And to make this brand new content challenging, lets make it so the chest can only be opened once a day.. hardcore).

Your own fault for following a guide tho, theres no need for zerker gear.

As for myself :I play maybe 10h per week in GW2, my character has been PvPing for most of its time and is still wearing a mix of masterwork and rare armorpieces, slotted with “of the pirate” + 1x “of the noble” runes, the armorpieces have (statswise) no unity at all, it is a mix of carrion/rabid/soldier stats.
Yet, I beat liandri, no foodbuffs, no boosters, but it did require me to replace 2 of my unity skills.

It was ALOT of fun by the way, loved the gauntlet, could do without the zergfest down below tho.

Don’t nerf this.

My 3 pets are constantly being oneshot and has been for as long as I can remember.

transtemporal.2158:

I agree with you but unfortunately, these noble souls are far and few between. Of the 200 odd games I’ve played, I’ve seen exactly 3 players make coaching suggestions that weren’t of the “OG U NOOBS!” “WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING THERE?!” “YOU ALL SUCK!” variety.

Ofcourse these are very common, it started out in early Counterstrike and Dota and has since transfered itself across the board and landed in MMOs, it is an unfortunate mentality that some players hold but remember this: Those who complain most vocally about other players talents ingame, are usually the ones who understand the least how it should be played.

That said there are solutions to this and I’m going to start drafting up one of my own because I want more people in the mists.

Psychogene.6780:

It would be nice to help beginners from time to time and if you have the noble virtue every single pvp game that you do but after awhile you might realise its a lost cause. People just do not listen, some people do not like being told what to do and if you get abusive responses for trying to help then it kind of makes it even harder to win a game.

Yes, you are going to see this quite abit, but you can’t expect everyone to listen, if you can get just 1 of 10 to listen, you’ve changed the way the game plays, if that person then gets another player to improve aswell, things will improve rather quickly.

There is however one downside with this: Not everyone agrees how the game should be played and because of that, theres going to be alot of disagreements, but there are usually some basics that everyone can agree upon.

transtemporal.2158:

Achievement points are the incentive now and that’s probably pulling some people (myself included) who wouldn’t usually play PvP. Turns out PvP is quite fun though.

But there are still a lot of PvErs who won’t play PvP, or even WvW. Some don’t want a highly competitive game mode, they just want to relax and kill some mobs at the end of the day.

PvP is fun, but on occasion they try to bring in the PvE players and then we end up with things like Skyhammer, where the main purpose is to battle the various map mechanics rather than to actually battle the other team. Those who do not PvP or WvW are most welcome to stick to that, but I strongly believe that there are alot of players who are staying clear of PvP alltogether simply because the amount of effort and time invested in PvP has incredibly little rewards compared to the ones you get in PvE.

transtemporal.2158:

This is probably true. The learning curve of PvP is pretty steep and there needs to be a better introduction to it. I joined hotjoin games initially because I thought that was what PvP was, but hotjoin is a horrible mess and a bad way to learn for a number of reasons.

In my opinion this falls upon the players, if you are experienced at pvping and actually know what you are doing(take a long hard look at yourself before you claim you do.) you should have no problems atleast trying to guide your team forward, should you end up with 4 people ending up rushing close, then theres really no point in ranting at them for doing so, rather explain to them why it wont work and leave it at that, you’re bound to find atleast some people who will listen.