Guild Wars 2

SynfulChaot.3169:

Ok. There is being a good competitor and just being a kitten. This, sir, is the second.

To everyone else, just enjoy your race and play how you wish.

Thank you sir,
I believe that a title where you are required to get 1st is something that should be earned, yet some people feel entitled to it and when they then proceed with expecting other competitors to give up the race, simply for them to obtain a title that they clearly weren’t capable of obtaining on their own, I just get tired.

Rather than learning some of the shortcuts, they’d rather have the other players adapt.

So if that does make me a kitten then I truly am perfectly fine with that.

So some people actually enjoy playing their old build and doesn’t want to be forced to change? Such atrocity.

Most warriors still run the run of the mill berserker 2h sword/axe+shield combination and it kinda works, the problem isn’t really as much that people are opposed to change as they are to actually having to find out things for themselves, it is far more convenient to just pop onto these forums, enter your professions subforum and pick up one of the cookiecutter builds presented, they’ll rarely or never be the best builds, but you can be kitten sure that they work to a certain extent.

And the meta has shifted, since they buffed necromancers beyond recognition theres just a huge shift in the professions that you encounter in tPvP, alot of champion paragons/magis/geniuses and illusionists all run around as rookie necros now.

Krayiss.4926:

Ya I was thinking we needed something new with flavor…. like controllable NPC’s lol

Personally I don’t think the npcs have anything on a pvp map to do, but I don’t think instagibb mechanics do either so I’m opposed to the map for tpvp as a whole.

uberkingkong.8041:

Oooooh I never saw this when skyhammer was tpvp map, always had solo q vs solo q (people actually played then), now that skyhammer is gone and we got stale maps again, its back to premades wooping solo que (because these maps are stale and boring).

Personally I experienced far longer queues in tPvP during the 9th to the 12th than I have in the past few days since skyhammer disappeared(Because that makitten tale and boring), but aside from us actually having gotten rid of the trollmap, I haven’t lost yet, I always soloQ and I just haven’t lost since they changed maps, beat quite afew premades along the way.

Since you however clearly dislike all maps except skyhammer, I doubt you’ve actually tPvP’d that much

Totally agree with you though, a full premade shouldn’t face a solo que ever, I don’t mind facing party of 2-3 people but if its party of 4, I better have some kind of party on my team as well.

What is there to say you don’t have a party on your team? That they’re representing different guilds?
It is highly unlikely that you will end up with a 5man team vs 5 soloqueuers, you might end up vs a team of 3 + 2 soloers and such but 5 solo? Haven’t had that happen to me that often.

I buy enough bags of the highest possible quality for the glory, buy about 50 chests when I hit a new “tier” and save the rest for a rainy day.

Because what we need, is another map with npcs.

Kexin.5946:

I’ve been wondering about the events, in particular the event of Sanctum Sprint.
As I was participating in these events for the achievement, someone said to us “Plz winner leave no winner x2 leave plz stop winner x2 stupid noob fsxk i need acheivnmtnz” or something along those lines.

Now, seeing someone whine like this just made me want to beat him more, troll him more. But I was wondering what the general consensus was: Should we just people who want to win… win?

And is there some sort of expectation that “winner” should “leave plz no winner x2” nowadays?

If someone asks for 1st place in the chat, make sure you do everything to beat them, they’re just after the title and should not get it for free.

I think I had 14 1st place finishes in the 25 races I did, it really isn’t hard.

Rai.3942:

I been thinking about the unlimited Zenith Skins for the past week and I am wondering if this is going to mess up the weapons system/skin in GW2. Most of the Zenith skins are really nice ( GS/Staff/Bow/dagger, etc.) won’t this make players not want to buy or make other weapons?

Prices on weapons and skins have fell this past week. What is the point of ever wanting to buy or make Vision of the Mist or other Great Swords when I have unlimited Zenith Skins. I can just buy the cheapest weapon with the state I want and transmute it.

With the release of the Unlimited Zenith Skins I pretty much stop working on Legendary GS, etc. when the new skins looks great and is unlimited.

The point has always been to obtain the actual skins, in other words the look of the weapon. The zenith weapons doesn’t look anything like the visions of the mists, nor twilight, nor eternity.. and so forth. The legendary weapons also have unique features such as the unicorns and the annoying sounds from the quip.

Zenith weapons only really provides people with a fancy weaponskin that is easily accessible, it doesn’t exactly replace any of the other skins availible tho.

Someone in this thread is trying to convert it into a “everyone loves skyhammer and wants it back” thread

google.3709:

What do you guys think?

• do you want more fun and creative maps, with innovate mechanics ?
  OR..
• plain boring maps with meaningless mechanics so you can run the same build and team comp map after the next?

I’ll just leave this here:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/loaded-question

And clearly your idea of innovative is something different than mine, the map has the trebuchet from battle of kyhlo(1 instead of 2) and you can’t dodge it this time, nor do you have to aim with it. Aside from that there is nothing special about it.

butch.8136:

If they would implement another queuing system there wouldn’t be that much QQ. I’ve said it before but we need to be able to chose our own map pool when queuing for tournies.

This would cut the mappool in pieces however as you would have some teams sticking to queueing to only 1 or 2 maps whereas others queue for another 1-2 maps.. thus increasing the queue and with an increase in queue, people may just find it tedious to continue.

Now I forgot who posted this:

Here’s a list of mistakes you have to do to be pushed off a cliff:

- Didn’t brought a proper stunbreaker
– Had no good positioning
– Had no stability on when you was in a dangerous spot
– Didn’t pushed off the enemy first
– Didn’t prevented the CC to be applied with any sort of blocks/invulnerability/evade
– Didn’t teleported away from the ledge you fell from.

But as a response, theres always the possibility to avoid being knocked to the ground, but you could just as easily use these knockbacks on other maps to send them flying, problem is that noone does it because if it doesn’t instantly kill the opponent, it isn’t deemed valuable enough.

So why is that do you think? Knocking opponents away from trebuchets at kyhlo, knocking them down in the holes on the temple of the silent storm.. and so forth, you know? Theres always been a use for these skills but the people who seem interested in skyhammer seem to have been oblivious to their use before they had the possibility to actually hit the brand new iWin buttons who sent enemies flying to their death.

Furthermore, you are aware that stability is not something easily accessible for all professions yes? You are also aware that “good positioning” is simply a matter of reacting to the other players positioning? You are also aware that not all builds nor professions have an easy time actually pushing the opponents off? There’s not enough blocks/invuls/evades availible to prevent being knocked off by a engineer.
Oh and I wouldn’t give much for the teleport, I’ve used both phase retreat and blink several times and quite often I must add, I’ve blinked through the ground or hit a invisible wall located perfectly upon a glass-floor. Stunbreaks also have a longer cooldown than most knockbacks.

You actually only need to end up with a single one of these things you listed to fall off the map.

Should you however not be pushed off you always have the easily accesible cannon that provides you full vision over the map and a trebuchet á Kyhlo that requires no aiming AND is unavoidable.

No there is simply no place for a map like this in competitive pvp, it is more about fighting the map than the other team.

Derps.7421:

I seriously think these two are the same account and they also only started tpvping because the map was skyhammer

I doubt anyone actually started tpvping because of this map, if anything I’ve noticed a vast increase in the time I spend in the queue so my personal experience is that theres far fewer people playing now than before craphammer came around.

Quite interesting how people suddenly use their knockbacks while they seem to have decided that these same skills are utterly useless on other maps where there is just as much use for them(albeit not instagibb material).

Julius.1094:

Obviously you haven’t played the map very much because pull skills are just as important and push and launch skills on Skyhammer.

You’re not allowed to limit this discussion to push and launch skills when pull skills (scorpion wire, temporal curtain-into the void, etc.) are being used effectively on this map to kill other players.

If by very much you mean have I spam-queued for it? No, I find it highly unpleasant, I do make sure I play a couple of matches each day tho.

Yes, pulls are also useful, but theres simply not enough of them to actually validify adding them into the equation, should we however do that then it really wouldn’t change anything of what I said before..

However “not allowed” ? Don’t be stupid, I’m fully entitled to focus on the portion of this discussion where I believe the major issue is located.

Julius.1094:

Lue.6538:

3 Professions(Necromancer, Ranger, Mesmer) completely lack the ability to Launch someone and the same 3 Professions also have a small amount of abilities availible that can Push someone, combined with these 3 Professions having less or the same amount of stability availible as the remaining 5 professions, they’re simply not of much use on a map where they’ll be knocked down repeatedly with no actual way of countering it. Due to the massive amounts of Launches / Pushes certain Professions such as Engineers and Warriors also have, these 3 professions have little use on this map.

But then again, I’ll just stand by my opinion that a map where you can oneshot another player simply through crowdcontrolling them is awful.

Necros have fear which is very effective at getting people off ledges, they also have a strong knock back with flesh golem. Ranger has a powerful knock back on a low CD with LB and a 2 sec AOE fear with wolf. Mesmers have an AOE pull on low CD with focus and a knock back on GS.

Do please make sure you know all the classes you’re commenting before doing so. Thanks.

Greetings!
As you were clearly uncapable of comprehending what I wrote I’ll sum it up for you again, and do please make sure you read it thoroughly before you make smug remarks about not knowing the professions.
Thanks.

I made no remarks regarding the mesmer Focus as I was strictly talking about Pushes and Launches here, if that was unclear then I’m sorry you didn’t understand that but having re-read what I wrote, I find it terribly obvious that I were talking strictly about these 2 effects.

As for Launches, I provide you with the full list of skills containing them so you can see for yourself that just as I said here:

3 Professions(Necromancer, Ranger, Mesmer) completely lack the ability to Launch someone

was infact perfectly correct: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch
Should you fear to click the link, as it is not on the GW2 forums, I also present you the following list in writing.

Launches
*Stomp – Warrior
*Thump – Engineer
* Personal Battering Ram – Engineer
* Overcharged Shot – Engineer
* Booby Trap – Engineer
* Big Ol’ Bomb – Engineer
* Banish – Guardian
* Updraft – Elementalist
* Tornado – Elementalist
* Steal – Thief The stealable Launches are however restricted to PvE

Now onto the Pushes I spoke about, I said the same 3 classes have few pushes in comparison to others, again, I’ll quote myself:

the same 3 Professions also have a small amount of abilities availible that can Push someone

Now keep in mind, I said they have a small amount of pushing abilities, not that they lacked them:

Mesmers have access to 2 – One however is underwater
Necromancers have access to 2 However they’re both acquired from Elite skills
Rangers have access to 2 Which is a valid amount, one of them is however dependant on a counter

Warriors on the other hand have access to 5 _ 3 above water_
Engineers have access to 5 _ Special conditions apply to some_
Thief again, is actually missing out. Access to one push while drowning.
Guardians have 3 1 during downed
Elementalists have 1.

Again I’ll provide you with a full list here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Push

I am well aware of the fearing capabilities of the necromancer and the plethora of pet-skills, well in this case its basically 3.
Tail lash, Terrifying Howl and Brutal Charge.

But again, I were talking about the 2 types of Knockbacks(Push, Launch), not the other effects.

All that aside tho, the cannon is nothing else than a simplified trebuchet from the battle of kyhlo and calling fall damage for something fresh is nothing short of insulting.

sorrow.2364:

involves good tactics

No.

sorrow.2364:

and skills to be successful in.

Yes, it requires Launches or Pushes.

andeysmandey.1647:

Thank your for making the most awesome/fun pvp map since… EVER!
Please do not change the map because of whiners who take it too seriously, there’s so much fun to be had when you think alittle outside the box, now you have to time your crowd controls and stability/condition removers and also think about placement, it’s so much fun!

In response to your bolded part, good pvpers actually did these things on decent maps that didn’t include a trebuchet that you don’t even need to aim yourself nor can dodge away from.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I think I’ll stick with investing zero as I have zero interest in a pointless money sink. I already have a few money sinks in the form of a legendary and a couple of the pseudo-legendaries.

And that is your choice, but unlike what the title of this forum topic is, you never had to spend 100g to play this particular activity.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I mention Keg Brawl as:

1 – It is the first mini-game
2 – It is in the ‘Activities’ section of the achievements pane, alongside Belcher’s Brawl.
3 – None of the other games you bring up are in the ‘Activities’ pane.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Activity
They’re all minigames, I do agree that moa racing is nothing but gambling but nevertheless, it is an activity and having no achievements connected to it under the activities panel doesn’t quite nullify that..

SynfulChaot.3169:

Moa Racing isn’t a mini-game. It’s gambling. And at least it has a chance for a return investment. You can gamble on it and make money. Belcher’s Brawl is a money sink and you cannot make money from it. So … apples and oranges there.

As for Costume Brawl? It is closer to a good comparison. Again, it’s not in the activities section but it does track in achievements, even though those achievements are in the ‘Communities’ section instead of the ‘Activities’ one. And looking at the price of the tonics? Let’s just say if Belcher’s Bluff price-to-play was on par with Costume Brawl, this conversation would not have happened. Around 50c per play is decent. 5s? Not so much.

And none of the holiday event ones count. They are all tracked seperately. They were also all free, you know.

I do agree that the holiday ones shouldn’t be counted here, altho I’d say they don’t count as they’re a temporary addition.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok, that’s fair! Do you have any suggestions then, to maybe change the map a little to make up for classes that might not be as good at CC?

Someone mentioned making it harder, but not impossible, to knock people off the edge. Would something like that make you feel better about sticking to your class?

This is great feedback, btw. We really appreciate the constructive nature of these threads.

3 Professions(Necromancer, Ranger, Mesmer) completely lack the ability to Launch someone and the same 3 Professions also have a small amount of abilities availible that can Push someone, combined with these 3 Professions having less or the same amount of stability availible as the remaining 5 professions, they’re simply not of much use on a map where they’ll be knocked down repeatedly with no actual way of countering it. Due to the massive amounts of Launches / Pushes certain Professions such as Engineers and Warriors also have, these 3 professions have little use on this map.

But then again, I’ll just stand by my opinion that a map where you can oneshot another player simply through crowdcontrolling them is awful.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lue.6538:

Your entire argument has been based upon a different logical fallacy so that you keep commenting on his is just.. hilarious.

And now you’re here with an ad hominem.

If you feel my argument is unsound, tell me how instead of just blindly accusing me. Thanks! ^.^

Quick summary here:
You do not need to invest 100g to play this minigame.
To be able to consider the 100g version an investment, you will have to play belchers bluff roughly 2000 times, less than that and it is more profitable for you to invest in either one-time or 5-time kits.

As for your logical fallacy? Well you mentioned keg brawl as a free example, but you ignored mentioning the other minigames availible: Moa Racing and Costume Brawl < this is known as cherrypicking or “the texas sharpshooter”. Through presenting a partial amount of data to back up your claim rather than take in consideration the full data availible, you make your claim appear stronger than it actually is. In this case you presented Keg brawl which is 1 of 5 minigames currently availible.
Out of these 5, 2 are free : Keg Brawl and Sanctum Sprint
3 have a cost to them: Belchers bluff (1/5s 4c, 5/20s, */100g), Costume Brawl(Tonic) and Moa Racing (50s/race).

One of these 5 will most likely disappear once the current event is over, namely the Sanctum Sprint, this causes us to drop down to 4 minigames out of which 3 or 75% actually has a cost to playing them.

Furthermore your claims regarding keg brawl is yet another logical fallacy as you failed to provide any form of valid data to back up your claim, thus causing it to be anecdotal.

And finally, pointing out that you did use a logical fallacy is not an attack on your character nor a remark upon your personal attributes as such I did not commit any form of ad hominem.

I don’t really care if it’s 100g for the unlimited item simply because I don’t farm enough gold to be considered wealthy and while I do find the game fun to play, I know full well I won’t be playing 2000 rounds of belchers bluff for a long time to come anyway.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Khisanth.2948:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Khisanth.2948:

frostyraziel.1854:

Yeah, 100 gold is a bit of an overkill, especially considering you get nothing of value when playing the game. It’s just for fun.

In that case GW2 should be free as well, I just play this for fun.

Having to work in-game to make money so you can play a mini-game in-game.

Also … work on your argument. You’ve just presented a straw man fallacy.

You do not NEED 100g to play. You need 100g only if you are very certain that you will want(still not a need) to play frequently each day and everyday for months if not years.

I know I don’t need 100 to play. You only need 5s to play a single time. My argument still stands on the previous merits.

And your previous argument is still a straw man.

Your entire argument has been based upon a different logical fallacy so that you keep commenting on his is just.. hilarious.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Keep discussing, but I’m curious: Would having templates alleviate the issue of not wanting to respec for certain maps?

We do see teams shift their comps around for certain maps (and it seems to be very effective), would this not be along the same lines?

Keep the feedback coming, this is great!

Templates would be beneficial, if nothing else just to speed things up slightly, however it doesn’t quite change that the skyhammer map offers close to nothing of value compared to the other maps.

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

*Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity *

The only thing the map brings that is “fresh” is the possibility for a worse player to beat a better player through fall damage, surely you don’t think the cannon is “fresh” or “Different” ?

Yeah this isn’t PvP.
The sheer lack of talent required to play on this map makes it completely and utterly boring, get yourself a warrior or engi and watch the other team fly off the map over and over and over, once you get bored of that, you’ll realise that the map is nothing short of dreadful.

Personally I’ll just stop pvping for the remainder of this map.

Finally a map those engis and warriors can shine on, they still won’t stand a chance on other maps but by golly they will dominate this one! I say bring on the 4 engi/1warrior teams!

Risingashes.8694:

Danikat.8537:

But the important thing is if you don’t want to pay 100g you don’t have to. As many people have said already you can play against NPCs for free, or buy the cheaper kits to play against other people.

No one is saying that you have to play the minigame, that’s a strawman argument.

What we’re saying is that 100g is too expensive compared to the benefit. At this price people will do the achievements and then never use the game ever again.

Keg Brawl has a hard enough time getting players and that is a free activity.

People are comparing this to other unlimited use items, but they’re not equivelent. The other unlimited use items are giving a specific benifit to the player, they’re valuable due to convieniance.

This item isn’t convenience, it’s the only way to experience this activity. It’s akin to making the trading post vendor ONLY available via the unlimited item (or the limited use item).

If there were player vs player stalls set up in LA this wouldn’t be an issue- but there aren’t, and with this 100g item existing there isn’t likely to be.

Your entire argument has been based upon a logical fallacy so calling someone else out for using one is utterly silly.

I bolded the part I’m talking about, because that is a fallacy aswell, you’re claiming that the only way of experiencing the content is to invest a sum of 100g, when in reality you are required to invest absolutely nothing to experience the content by facing NPCs and to face players the sum needed to acquire access to the content is on par with that of teleporting to a couple of waypoints.

Furthermore it IS a convenience, rather than buying one-time use items for each round you wish to play, you pay a larger sum to maintain a permanent version of the item, this item however does you little good except for providing you with the means of having the content accessable to you constantly.

Now as for the item being “required” to access the content? Well look at it like this:
Counting in coppers we get 1.000.000 copper for the item, for a onetime kit you spend 504 copper, or for a 5 time kit: 2.000 copper.

Now what this means is that the 100g is equivalent to buying 500 5 time kits, which results in 2500 uses or 1985~ uses of the one-time kit.
You might ofcourse REALLY enjoy belchers bluff and want to play 2000+ rounds, but that doesn’t automatically mean that you will want to spend 100g on it, it does however not mean either that you are supposed to be able to purchase the unlimited item for a lower cost simply because you don’t want to use the 5-time or 1-time kits.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Lue.6538:

the high price for access is a modified truth by far, you can spend a silver and access the same content.

100g is perfectly fair.

Look at my previous post here to see why I think a cost to play at all is shortsighted. And regardless, 100g is just too high.

Yes I’m aware that you think that and thats fine, but if you look at the cost between the 1 time use and the permanent you can easily see that to actually play the game, you’re far better off using the 1-use items and the permanent should be deemed more of a “collectible” than anything else and I’d say 100g for a novelty item that you can have for bragging rights is perfectly fine.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Spoj. You’re the only person who I’ve heard think 100g is ‘fair’. I think it is far too high to make people really care to keep playing the game. I wouldn’t call it reasonable or fair. I’d call 100g exorbitant for what it provides.

High price for permanent vendor access anywhere? Yeah. Makes sense. That can really trivialize inventory management. High price for permanent hair style kit? Yeah. Makes sense. That lowers how much ArenaNet can make in monies from us from the gem store. High price just for access to a mini-game (which already are hardly played)? Yeah. No. Sorry. Doesn’t make sense.

the high price for access is a modified truth by far, you can spend a silver and access the same content.

100g is perfectly fair.

spoj.9672:

Also Graster is practically impossible unless you use the “woo” signature move. Heals far to often to counter in any other way.

Graster was the first one I fought so I had no signature move, he takes significant damage from regular drinks and his water will not replenish much without his signature up so it is safe to let him drink as much water as he wants, just save your belch to the moment his signature hits and you will beat him easily.
Oh and don’t fake against him, you want your hp to be around 2-3k for as much time as possible.

Jabberwock.9014:

So instead of fixing cof Anet makes items unnecessarily expensive. Brilliant.

Risingashes brings up the most important point, in that all other pvp activities in this game are free (outside of siege and repairs in wvw). It’s dumb to lock actual content behind a massive paywall. Are we going to have to pay to enter dungeons next?

“Fixing” CoF would send players somewhere else, it wouldn’t solve anything tho.

Either way it isn’t locked behind a massive “paywall” as you put it, you don’t have to buy the most expensive version to be able to play.

Korval.3751:

Adnul Irongut cannot be beat. The math simply doesn’t add up. If he’s constantly spamming his special ability the math says you will run out of health before his. Please fix this Anet.

The closest I got his health down was 25%

Your math is wrong, he is beatable as several of us here have already said, you even got a video showing it to be beatable so your math is horribly horribly wrong.

Beat him legit after 8 tries or so, basically what you want is the following start from his side:
Burp
Drink
Drink
Drink
Water

Your response to that should be:
Water
Fake
Fake
Fake
Burp

after that just keep tabs on his water and make sure you can interupt every 2nd one(every 6th-7th turn), good luck.

Paifas.3196:

I am confused Lue, do you actually play mesmer main class? Because if you read the patch notes carefully and you know how to play phantasm mesmer, then you would notice that your phantasms have, in fact, less HP.
Now go read the patch notes and try understand what i just saied, im too lazy to spell it out for you.

And blurred frenzy was not overpowered, it was our only decent close range skill, dumb thiefs got “3” spam, who pretty much makes them imortal. Ele’s have the “bunker” build who also pretty much makes them imortal, and so on.

Edit:
One other thing Lue, i am too old to like “updates” that makes us have to change the way we play the game.
I dont like getting my build Nerfed ALL the way.
I dont like to have to re-learn how to fight other classes because of huge updates and “evolving’s”.
Starting to wish BF4 comes out faster.

Overall, the health was reduced by a fairly insignificant amount, however try to follow my reasoning here: They nerfed the signet, yes that much is true, but they also buffed the base HP to cover some of it, my phantasms are just fine after the patch.

Blurred frenzy didn’t change that much, the only thing is that you can now get hit by retaliation while using it, which is perfectly fine.

You don’t have to change the way you play, you can play this exactly as before.

Aveneo.2068:

May I ask what ‘one of the other weapons’ you are referring to? The only other MH we have next to Sword is Scepter; and that thing still isn’t even remotely viable. If anything, it was made even worse because ANet nerfed the damage on #2 by 50%. And the 2s telegraphed ‘please hit me’ for Torment doesn’t make up for the nerf.

Now if we actually had something like a Mainhand Pistol and an actually viable Scepter, then we’d have alternatives.

I meant the scepter, which has always been perfectly viable, people just prefered blurred frenzy, not that unlike the 100b warriors.

I hope you don’t mind me snipping the parts of your post I didn’t feel like touching.

Literally baffled by the attitude of a few masochist mesmers who seem to think they have some loyalty to the class regardless of what happens.

I swear if there was a nerf that all skill cooldowns were now 10 minutes and each time you shatter you get a physical punch in the face someone would post about how great it is that this will get rid of all the fairweather mesmers and now Only True Mesmers will be left.

Seriously this is an awful set of changes. From Into the Void, to IC, to Blurred Frenzy there is a set of utterly unwarranted changes that force us into one style of play and a limited couple of weapon sets.

-snip-

It actually has little to do with “loyalty to the class” but rather the simple fact that a majority of the mesmers uses a mainhand sword due to iLeap + Blurred Frenzy,
Considering Blurred Frenzy flat out ignored retaliation, it was simply on par with popeye in strength, and nothing should be that strong. By nerfing Blurred Frenzy, we might see mesmers going for one of the other MH weapons, especially now that the Scepter was given Torment.

I don’t even find myself worried over the changes, I’ve had a couple of rounds to play my tPvP build in (phantasm) and guess what, no changes, I’m still playing it just as before and I’m still spawning phantasms as fast as I need to despite the lack of IC in the build. You see, while IC was moved up in the trait-line, they gave us a health-boost to cover for that, yes we don’t spawn as quickly anymore, but in return they may just survive slightly longer in return!

Infact the only part of the changes I find to be odd is this:
Decreased the clone base hit points by 25% in PvP and WvW.
Surely the clones that were already being one-hitted did not need further health reductions, soon, they’ll be losing fights against ambients.

And what weapon sets are we limited to right now? Torch has always been subpar to everything else and you can definitly still continue to use both sword (MH or OH!), scepter, focus, staff or GS and create builds just fine around these..

Paifas.3196:

Oh kitten carighan, I am a phantasm mesmer and this was a BIG nerf to me around the board.

After a days work and exams, i arrive home to this crap and think “why the hell i wasted money on this game, i thought this was already out of the beta phase”.

You are correct good sir!
It is indeed out of beta, but being out of beta does not mean the game should stop developing and evolving, while you may dislike the path they’ve taken with this patch, I’m confident you’ve got something with another class that bugs you, and once that gets adjusted you’re going to be filled to the brim with joy and jappy thoughts!

Titanimite.2534:

Lue.6538:

Well, theres not really any limitations to playing more than 1 character, but considering the lackluster looks of light armor and the shatter mechanic being horribly dull to play with, I might go elementalist again.

Dude you’ve got to be kidding..Ele was nerfed as well

No I’m not kidding on anything I said:
You can play several characters, just not simultaneously.
I do find the light armors to be really plain and boring.
I do not enjoy shattering clones.

Never did I however comment on wether or not Elementalist were nerfed or not in this patch, nor would I care if it was.. Simply because unlike you, I’d rather play a class because its fun rather than because its the strongest.

decease.3215:

only shatter viable = reroll to different class. there will be more shatter mesmer, but overall less mesmer. hope you enjoy it..

You know I’m confident I’ll be able to hold my ground as a phantasm mesmer in PvP despite these nerfs and in PvE your efficiency really doesn’t matter cause you’ll only be there to provide boons to the zerker warriors.

keenlam.4753:

Jester.1236:

Prismatic Understanding was buffed.

Sorry for my noobness but how PU was buffed. How is it different now?
I’m using it and can’t understand which it means in the patch notes. Thanks

Instead of just getting a boon upon stealth, you get a boon every second while stealthed, that is how I’ve read it atleast, not that I use the trait myself tho.

Titanimite.2534:

Actually, shatter builds were slightly affected. However, not broken like the rest of the class. But this will be next for sure.

Most mesmer will re-roll or play an alt leaving the dedicated Mesmers who will pwn with the shatter builds making those in PvP 1v1 call for a nerf on Mesmer which ANet will listen to of course then rendering the class completely useless but they will decide to keep it in the game for those who want to look at their Winged armor and lust.

Don’t tell anyone, but phantasms still works just fine.

Well, theres not really any limitations to playing more than 1 character, but considering the lackluster looks of light armor and the shatter mechanic being horribly dull to play with, I might go elementalist again.

I’m glad they changed Blurred Frenzy.
Illusionary Celerity was way too strong for an Adept trait and it definitly surpassed the other 2 minor traits in Illusions in efficiency, a spot on adjustment.

While my phantasm builds got weaker and I suspect more mesmers will be going to be heading towards shatter builds more now, I kinda like the changes overall.. but I’d like to see the possibility to actually play a proper shutdown mesmer again.

Since almost all thieves have a habbit of hitting Steal(traited with Mug) + cloak and dagger + basilisk venom as an opener, I like to start with the second his attack hits: Pop decoy + 1 Clone diversion, roll away, mirror images and Ether feast with 3 clones up, followed by casting chaos armor and swapping weapons to the scepter to be able to block the next burst, when he appears from stealth again I like to shatter my 3 clones with a cry of frustration and inflict a blindness with scepters block.

After thakittens just a matter of rotating skills and making sure you take full advantage of the phase retreat + chaos storm combo

As a shatter build that is ofcourse.

Carighan.6758:

Which sounds like a bug, because the trait description says it grants the illusions extra range, too.

Completely agree and I’d love to see it fixed, just pointing out that it seems like that is how it is working right now and all we can do is cope with it until a fix arrives

Kamata.5762:

Hello everyone,

am I the only one that misses the old mesmer? I mean, mesmer in gw2 is fun and all but it just doesnt feel like mesmer anymore..

I really like confusion because that resembled a little bit the old mesmer. But since the nerf I actually dont find it fun anymore. The mesmer in gw1 really punished enemies. Backfire + Empathy totally shutdown a caster unless there was a monk to remove the hexes and people here complain about a lousy confusion stack that does not do nearly as much dmg as backfire+ empathy…
Or the interrupt mesmer. God that was fun and it took so much practice to be good at it.

I just miss disabling people =[

Mesmer was so much fun in GW1, its still fun here but I’d much rather be throwing around Clumsiness than shattering clones on people.

It just isn’t necessary and alot of mesmers seems to be very content with using the centaur runes, personally the lack of out of combat swiftness just doesn’t bother me at all.

theCOREYCOLAK.5698:

Pistol traited allows you to summon from 1.2k range, and stun from 1.2k range. However once summoned, the clones still move in to 900 range… I dunno why. Maybe it’s a bug, maybe Anet just doesn’t care.

Thought I’d answer this:

The trait only grants YOUR skill additional range, once you’ve summoned the duelist, it is no longer your skill, it is the duelists.

Regenerator.7326:

I recently decided to start playing a sylvari mesmer. i love the theme and the pvp potential. however, i find monsters 2 levels below my level with scale difficult to kill, and i die about once every five minutes on average. i am stuck in the storyline because i cannot handle the waves of monsters sylvari storyline apparently like to throw at you. i am level 10 at the moment with all gears up to date from general armour/weapon merchant. i use staff and great sword, and it just feel like i dont have enough aoe, mobs dont die fast enough and i die in very few hits. and help and suggestions?

if this is relevant, i have a MM necro as main with staff and dual daggers. i rarely die on my main and i have a ton of aoe at my disposal from the staff. in contrast i find mesmers to be very demanding to play, maybe im just not familiar with the clone/illusion system. any help appreciated!

Once you hit 40+ your Mesmer is going to start to shine brighter than Edward from Twilight.

Theres a couple of approaches you can take when you level, personally I went with staff + sword/focus and just cleaned out all the 1-15 zones for a level advantage over the mobs. Alot of people has had great success in leveling with a greatsword/ sword/pistol combo aswell.

In short tho, the longer you stick to it, the better it’ll become.

Demon.5082:

I dont really think torment will be that strong in PvE since movement is required for its full potential damage. It will end up like the confusion condition :-(

Do not panic, wait the patch out before deciding what you can do.

Condition Mesmers were average until the staff bouncing logic got messed up. If that was working well (preferring you for the bounces) the fury buff itself would help keep your critical chance at a good rate for sharper images.

I’m not so sure I agree with your take on torment, but we’ll see what happends.

Lvl 8 wasp in queensdale
lvl 9 longhorn sheep in queensdale
lvl 10 bandit in queensdale

All within a couple of hours.

Problem with conditionmesmers are that the class isn’t really capable of maintaining reliable sources for any conditions except for confusion and vulnerability.

Your gear should be just fine, you won’t be able to rely on sharper images for applying bleeds due to the simple fact that you’re, as pyroatheist is saying, missing the necessary crit for it. Give it until the update arrives and see how well you can maintain torment, odds are your build will work just fine with your current gear.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@Lue: Phantasm builds end up better than shatter at high content simply because it allows you to multitask into support.

The swiftness is primarily an open world pve thing. Having that easy access to permanent swiftness just makes exploring so much smoother. Having it in wvw isn’t a bad thing, but you’ll definitely be better off with something else.

For pve, the choice is clear: scepter is horrible. It has clone generation slower than dodge rolling, and nearly as slow as purely using traited mirror blade. It does low damage, has no utility (sword has 2 leap combos, vuln stacking, immobilize, cripple, and boon stripping) and poor active defense, where sword has invulnerability.

For wvw, scepter becomes a somewhat viable choice depending on your play style. However, to use shatter effectively in large groups, you have to be up close and personal or your clones will die too fast to get an effective shatter. For this, you need sword, both for the gap close of illusionary leap and the defense of blurred frenzy.

The sword provides vulnerability from its first 2 attacks on the autoattack, namely Mind Slash and Mind Gash, I can still stack up vulnerability with the scepter, but I’m doing it through my 2nd major trait in the domination line instead, you can cripple/ immobilize with the sword, I can offer up a blind by purposely positioning me so I soak up one attack with the block. It can support just fine so again, your choice is the sword, mine is the scepter, they both do their job just fine, altho I would love to see a rework on Confusing Images.

On the swiftness, yeah, but he was interested in WvW, and because of that theres better runes he can use instead of centaur that will do more good for him in WvW while being marginally worse in PvE.

I’ll just have to disagree with you on the scepter, while the sword does offer you a leap with immobilize, vulnerability stacking and invulnerability every 10 seconds, the scepter grants you more clones aswell as a blind every 12 seconds(or 9½ in the build I’ve suggested).

When you’re going with the blink utility combined with Phase Retreat and Deceptive Evasion you can easily maintain long-range combat while still playing shatter, and while you will have to jump into melee on occasion, you will still be just fine by using the scepter, sure, you might prefer Illusionary leap and blurred defense, personally I prefer Illusionary Counter.

The only real difference is the way you approach it, they’re both viable.

Brullyra.1592:

So maybe something like Mesmer runes, with the extra prec meaning the Accuracy sigil can be swapped out for an Energy one?

Sure that’d work.

@Kirec:

While the animation for the 3rd and final skill for the scepter autoattack can be abit on the slow side, theres simply nothing that hinders you from finishing the combo most of the time, if there is, you’re simply positioned wrong.

As for off-set, the staff is already included to offer quick means for entering and leaving melee range instantaneous.

Furthermore while blurred frenzy is a great means for cutting out a second or 2 of invulnerability, it is simply not efficient in a full shatter-build, I’d definitly keep it around for a hybrid or a phantasm build, but never for shatter.

As for the runes: Permanent swiftness is nice, but with this build you have a couple of great abilities for avoiding getting caught, first and foremost you still have Diversion and Distortion.. combined with Deceptive Evasion you can easily just dodge and send a Diversion to prevent them from actually attacking you for a brief moment, you’ve got blink, you’ve got decoy AND you’ve got 10 seconds of swiftness from the focus, this skill can also be used to cripple the opponents thus benefiting you even further, theres simply no need for the centaur runes, even tho I do agree that permanent swiftness is a great addition, it is merely a convenient bonus and not something that you need to rely upon kittenter.

@Pyroatheist
He wants to WvW at 80, combined with PvE but excluding dungeons, shatter does work just fine in both dungeons and higher fractals by the way.

Furthermore the centaur runes would provide very little for any WvW ventures and there are simply better runes for it, permanent swiftness is far from the most beneficial thing you can attain for WvW.

As for the scepter, well.. I’m sorry but thats just your opinion on it we’ve clearly got different experiences while using it but it is simply not as bad as you make it out to be.

Phantasm/shatter hybrids are a fairly strong build, but I couldn’t help but notice that quite afew of the opponents were upscaled