Guild Wars 2

Kal Spiro.9745:

Those same people who screamed will end up defending the system in another half a year if anything comes up to change it.

The only reason to defend a system that you disagree with, is because it’s the lesser of 2 evils. That is the only reason you’d see me defend it in a year.

PopeUrban.2578:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Black Box.9312:

It’s absolutely not an illusion. Nobody will be doing any sort of group content that doesn’t involve the hero challenges, because why would they? The reward that they want isn’t there. It may not be directly caused by the decision to gate elite specs, but the beauty of cause and effect is that it does not have to be direct. There’s no denying that the pressure wouldn’t still be there if the elite specs weren’t gated.

Lol. My partner and I will be entering the expansion together at launch.
She is entering first on a character where she doesn’t even plan to play the elite spec… And I on one I am not in a hurry to unlock.
So yeah. We will be doing all of the things we come across. Perhaps don’t assume every player is you.

Yet you will be running into people, or rather they will be running past you, to do the minimum that they have to. This in turn will scale events that they may have no intention of touching, moreso than it already would. I personally think the Hero Point Trains are going to run into serious roadblocks in the form of Masteries, though, so in that respect they will have to participate in events. However… this still pushes people to find optimal times to do things, so they can get elite specs as fast as possible. Would some have done this anyways? Of course. But why should even more be pushed into doing so? I’m concerned about the inevitable collision of those that want to enjoy it, and those rushing to finish things as fast as possible. So much that, I think a number of us might very well avoid HoT areas for a bit.

How is this any different than how the open world works already?

People are always running past one another to find the fastest route to whatever it is they’re after in the zone. People run past events to gather, or to get to personal story instnaces, or waypoints, or pois, or vistas, or whatever it is they happen to be personally after.

I don’t see how anything has changed.

It’s forcing people to do it, just to unlock elite specs. Which is the crux of the entire thing. Being forced. Seems this is the intended gameplay now so that makes it ok to rush the new content?

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Black Box.9312:

It’s absolutely not an illusion. Nobody will be doing any sort of group content that doesn’t involve the hero challenges, because why would they? The reward that they want isn’t there. It may not be directly caused by the decision to gate elite specs, but the beauty of cause and effect is that it does not have to be direct. There’s no denying that the pressure wouldn’t still be there if the elite specs weren’t gated.

Lol. My partner and I will be entering the expansion together at launch.
She is entering first on a character where she doesn’t even plan to play the elite spec… And I on one I am not in a hurry to unlock.
So yeah. We will be doing all of the things we come across. Perhaps don’t assume every player is you.

Yet you will be running into people, or rather they will be running past you, to do the minimum that they have to. This in turn will scale events that they may have no intention of touching, moreso than it already would. I personally think the Hero Point Trains are going to run into serious roadblocks in the form of Masteries, though, so in that respect they will have to participate in events. However… this still pushes people to find optimal times to do things, so they can get elite specs as fast as possible. Would some have done this anyways? Of course. But why should even more be pushed into doing so? I’m concerned about the inevitable collision of those that want to enjoy it, and those rushing to finish things as fast as possible. So much that, I think a number of us might very well avoid HoT areas for a bit.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Behellagh.1468:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Dragonfeu.4356:

https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT
https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT
https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT
https://help.guildwars2.com/entries/95982157-Account-types-Free-Core-HoT

All good! Restricted TP access, can’t access guild bank, can’t mail items, restricted access to chat so no bots. It’s fine, this will work out.

THE ONLY REAL PROBLEM, IMO, IS THAT NEW PLAYERS DON’T REALISE THAT THIS IS A TRIAL/RESTRICTED ACCOUNT, MAKE SURE TO LET THEM KNOW AND DON’T OVER DO IT ON THE REMINDERS TO BUY THE CORE-GAME, IT GETS ANNOYING AF

Apart from that, good move anet, make the trials account thing upgrade as accessible to players as the gem store, small reminders but not annoying popups every login. Also, make sure that you have restrictions on the gem store or the playerbase who has the core ( not trial ) game will get kittened off as gem prices will definitely rise. Also, make sure you can’t get the core ( non trial ) game off the gem store or everything you just did was for naught: They don’t pay money and they negatively affect the economy/gem trade ( if everyone who has trials does it ). Unless you want to make it expensive ( 150g ) but not overly.

Peace

They can sell gems but can’t buy them with gold. But they can receive mail of items and gold.

No they can’t, read the restrictions SLOWER. NO TRANSFER OF ITEMS OR GOLD FOR F2P ACCOUNTS.

I tested it myself, You CAN send items and gold to an account. And they CAN take it out of the mail. They CAN also return to sender said mails, with the items/gold attached. What they CANNOT do, as the list from Anet indicates, is SEND mail with gold or items.
So what I said is 100% accurate, test it yourself if you don’t believe, Or if I missed some fact or if certain items are restricted, then please correct me and alleviate those concerns.

*edit: or if somehow an update isn’t required to prevent what I tested, then it’s entirely possible Anet changed it, but per Anet’s FAQ
“Can’t send gold or items”
it doesn’t mention receive, which is what I tested.
So, perhaps should take your own advice?

Was that advice taken? Was this test done? Because I still stand by my statement.

Vihar.5780:

Lucifers Heaven.2167:

Vihar.5780:

40 heart quests is what we are basically talking about, right? By my reckoning, that adds up to about 15 hours at a VERY casual pace.

They’re not even heart quests, they’re Hero Points. The old Skill Points. Some are “beat this one enemy in a fight”, others are just “reach and interact with this thing”.

Wow.

This makes all the crying even more pathetic.

No, it does not. If you are assuming it’s 40 places easily reached, and all you do is commune, then you are at best exactly what you are saying the crying is. Since they are worth 10x the hero points, why should they be so easy and simple. In fact, if it was this ‘easy’ then it would be the same as just giving us the elite specs for almost no work at all right? (No, most are NOT saying to be handed everything… I’d like to take this imaginary silver spoon and do something with it to the people that keep spouting this off, but that would be violence, and we should be planting violets >.>)

Masteries are needed to get around the maps, this is a fact. It is most likely the case that at least some of the hero challenges will need masteries. Hopefully not require them to be maxed, that should only be optional to fully max the masteries, like to make it easier to get around. But from what Anet has said, parts of the maps will be gated off behind masteries, which again, means hero challenges are likely to be as well.

Jhoul.6923:

All I care is that Elite spec is not insta 100% on day 1, and if that’s what we are getting; good riddance. That will only hurt the game anyway.

The people that want to rush it, will still do everything they can to rush it. There are people that are already planning out how to go about this the fastest, and we don’t even have HoT yet… so you can be 100% sure some will be doing precisely that when HoT is released. This will hurt the game.

Blaeys.3102:

My guess is that the time it takes people to get these hero points will be far less than the time they spend complaining about it on these forums.

considering hero challenges will most likely be locked behind masteries, I’m willing to bet it is not as simple as walking up to a hero challenge in queensdale and pressing ‘F’.
BTW, why are you still following me in game?

Coulter.2315:

ScribeTheMad.7614:

I’ll simplify it for you.

I wanted to play the new content as my Herald.

Not play the new content to get a herald at the end.

Ok lets take this example.

You want to play Herald in HoT this means you’re starting a NEW Rev, right?

You now need to level it (with tomes or regularly), by leveling you GAIN Hero points.

You reach 80 having SAVED enough Hero points to unlock Herald’s skills, traits etc.

You now SPEND those Hero points on Herald mechanics.

Congratulations you now get to play HoT as a Herald.

Nope, you have to unlock all the other lines first. Now we are back at this thread.

Knighthonor.4061:

Healix.5819:

Knighthonor.4061:

How many Hero Points are in the new HoT zones?

40 hero challenges and they give 10 hero points each for a total of 400, which is how many points you need to fully unlock an elite spec.

If you have world completion already, you’re halfway through the elite spec. Considering elite specs include other stuff to unlock however, you’ll likely only need 10 or so hero challenge within HoT to fully unlock all skills and traits.

Well they did say 200 to unlock all skills and traits. The characters i wanted the ES on i got to 170 anyway. So 3 HP challenges to go in HoT.

No, it was not said 200 to unlock all skills and traits. it’s 400 to unlock everything, yes, but we do not know that the last 2 skins are 200 points, Anet has not, and won’t say.

fireflyry.7023:

Nausicca.6038:

When Colin put his gun on my head to force me buying the xpac, he never said I had to play the game to unlock stuff.
I just want instant gratification. I don’t want to work in a videogame. Give meh the new legendaries now. Yes, before the launch. And I want an “instawin” skill.
And oh I want to use all the masteries at the same time, with all the stats in the game. When I’ll raid, I want to be able to click 1 and oneshot the last boss, who will drop me a full set of legendary armor, not the BS precursor.
Colin, plz, do it. Or I’ll quit ( but still play but ya know I’m a forum warrior, I have my pride).
No $$$ for you ever ANet. Nah.

Brb, diaper is full.

I’ve read some pretty valid and well put points from both sides of the fence, no need to derail it with fictional over-exaggeration and belittlement.

Why not, that’s all that keeps getting thrown at many. That, and the whole ‘silver platter’ ‘silver spoon’ and ‘entitlement’, when that isn’t even what is being said.

You know, it’s almost funny.

There are people essentially calling us entitled spoiled brats, yet they are hypocrites. They are saying to shut up, yet they themselves have complained on these forums.

Of course it’s buried, but I’ve already decided how I’m going to deal with it, which will be to not bother for anything but rev for the foreseeable future. I’ll take it from there, because I’m not wanting to ruin the content by seeking out hero points (which I fully expect at least some to be locked behind masteries).

ChavaStark.9147:

ColinJohanson.2394:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Unless I am mistaken just to unlock half of the training line, we need 212 hero points?

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

Okay Collin literally said hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. so we need to do 10 challenges per 100 and that means 40 challenges for the 400. So stop freaking out this is not as bad as it seems. If we do not have a lot of challenges in the jungle and I highly doubt it then it is something to freak over. But right at the moment I do not find this to be a grind and it is not even that bad.

I think it’s naive to think that hero challenges worth 10 points are going to be as simple as walking into queensdale, and communing with the centaur ‘hero challenge’ that is worth 1 point. We know masteries are going to be required to fully get around the new maps. I’m hoping that none of the hero challenges are locked behind maxed masteries, but even so, I’m willing to bet that at least some will require masteries to get to them, and that just adds to the ‘grind’ aspect if you want to get the elite spec quickly.

By definition you would be grinding, even if you don’t find it as such, if you want to get elite specs for multiple characters, because you would be doing the same task over and over again. Again, the only way this is ‘ok’ is if only the skins are locked behind most of this, but, we were flat out told, it will cost 60 hero points just to start as the elite spec, that is, just to have the minor trait that allows you to ‘be’ that elite spec. It appears that we may have to also waste hero points on skins just to keep getting other traits/abilities. While it is possible, I’m doubting that the final unlocks, the 2 skins, are going to be worth more than every other unlock combined. That is, if that picture is right, but it pretty much fits what Colin said. Except that the runes and sigils are unlocked before the final 2 skins, which, why would I want these special things before I can really ‘play’ the spec? More stuff to carry around lol.

Of course an MMO needs a grind, but the grind should be optional. In this, if you want to play part of HoT that they hyped up a lot, the elite specs, you will have to rush the maps.

The one to Rule.2593:

You aren’t obligated to get elite specs, you choose to do so voluntarily. No ones holding a gun to your head.

No instead they have people heaping derision on what was a big selling point for a number of people, that instead of it being a core part of HoT, it’s essentially ‘a reward’ for playing HoT. Quite a big difference.

Exciton.8942:

Setting grinding gate to core game content is just plain bad design.
First mastery system, I can live with that. Then this….sorry can’t take the compromise again.

You already use mastery system to set a exp grinding gate for map exploration. Then you use this map exploration as a gate for just playing elite specs? How many gates do you want to set for players just to enjoy the core content.

Shhhh
or we might get a gate for our gated gate, because they heard we like gates….

I need smacked just for typing that x.x

Buy Some Apples.6390:

Even if someone does buy from a site like that, it is not the players fault. Anet dont have any grounds on which to take away the player’s full account, the most they can do is deactivate the invalid key.

Surely by punishing a player for trying to get a better deal but ending up buying from some dodgy dealer, then taking away the players accoutn and telling them they should have bought off them is against competition laws and antitrust laws?!

No, if you buy a key from a website that is not legit, they pull your key, but this also disables your account. Period. The only way to reactivate it, is to apply a real legit key to it. This has happened, and you do not have any special rights just because a retailer may have sold you a fake key. Anet doesn’t care about the retailer, the retailer never paid Anet, and you were not entitled to a free key.

This isn’t entirely true, they do care about the retailer, they dont’ want fake keys or stolen keys sold. The problem is, these ‘fake’ keys can be activated and appear legit, even though Anet never generated the key. When this is discovered, the accounts are deactivated/banned.

The one to Rule.2593:

lol it’s like no one reads at all, it’s 40 hero points on the new maps you don’t need to do core tyrian hero points at all which takes far longer.

Well I had more typed, but I broke the rule to copy everything before I click reply x.x

We do not know that the jungle hero points are easier. We do not know what masteries might be required to access them. If it’s maxed masteries… then you are not going to be able to convince me that they will be easier than getting Central Tyrian hero points.

This keeps getting said that they will be easy to get, and we do not know that at all. they could very well be difficult, and if gated behind the masteries, especially higher than the first tier.. Well, we just don’t know yet. Even if they are easy to get, it’s still requiring those that want the elite specs, to rush the content to get the hero points.

DDCarvalho.2071:

Great decision ArenaNet.

Most people that play RPGs like a sense of character progression.
Since now our character progression is horizontal progression with elite specializations, I am very happy to see that I won’t get my full elite spec on the first 5 minutes of the expansion.
I hope no amount of QQ and backlash is enough to make you guys change course.

For a future expansion, a suggestion I would make is to include the new skill points during the beta and make people need them to unlock the elite specs (even if it is at a accelerated pace), so people don’t get the unrealistic expectation that everything will be handed out to them on a silver platter.

I’m going to state it again. The number of people not understanding that we are not complaining about working for it. We are complaining about the high point cost for every character, that many will in essence be grinding the maps over and over, not by choice, but by necessity to get the elite specs.

Jim.4935:

Seera.5916:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Is that 400 points in total or 400 points just for the skills and traits?

The reason I ask is because I think someone said before that the weapon and armour skins were at the end of the track to be unlocked so all the functional stuff could be gotten first (I think it was a PoI, but not too sure), in which case it wouldn’t be 400 points to unlock the track, skills and traits.

400 with everything, but everything’s in the same line and we only know that the weapon skin is the final unlock. We don’t know where the other skin and non-trait/skill items are located or how many points those are worth.

The traits and skills are in the first 60 Hero Points. “Such a grind”

No, that is not what was said. If that is all it is, we wouldn’t have an issue at all.

That is 60 hero points just to unlock essentially the first minor trait in the elite spec.

PopeUrban.2578:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

Again explain to me how this is different than leveling.

Or gearing alts.

Is the problem that you’re actually expected to play characters to advance them?

If you don’t like playing those characters, why do you care about their elite specs?

I just don’t understand it.

The problem is that I don’t really think you want to understand it.

You can level alts without really doing anything, finish tutorial, turn around, and walk into town, run to crafting stations, and level. Or you can do a mix, you don’t just HAVE to run around to each heart, etc. You had, gasp, freedom to choose how you wanted to level. If you really wanted to do EotM to level, at least after it was added, you could. Crafting has always existed, we now have Tomes to level as well. Point though, is people want the freedom to play how they enjoy, not to sit and do the exact same thing on every character just to have the freedom to play their character how they want.

In fact, this is a large part of the disconnect. Some people seem to be incapable of understanding that not everyone likes PvE, or that others only like to do it some. Of course for those of us that really did enjoy WvW and not from a zerging standpoint, that’s irrelevant now anyways, our entire ‘end-game’ is being changed and not necessarily for the better but that’s an entire different argument.

I do like PvE as well, but what I don’t like, is having to do the same thing over, and over, and over. I don’t play the same character constantly in pve. And when I played primarily one class in WvW, I changed it up occasionally even then, and I wouldn’t really play that character in pve because of it. I don’t do the same dungeons repeatedly. But if we want the elite specs? We are forced to do the same things, repeatedly.

I saw a good response on this, when someone said it was a good thing, you should enjoy the game as a player.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

I’m an artist and I enjoy drawing.
I don’t enjoy drawing the exact same picture 9 times.

So to mitigate this repetitive nature, means I have no idea when I might get elite specs on more than one class, and it also means there are some I will not be getting them on, because I don’t feel it’s worth the effort to do 10+ times.

PopeUrban.2578:

All the people calling this setup “grinding” I really don’t understand.

It isn’t as if you’re doing the same hero challenges over and over. You’re running around HoT maps, doing events, hitting hero challenges and mastry point thingies. This is exactly the same as all the endgame maps in the core game, orr to silverwatses, just with different icons on the vistas.

It is literally the same exploration-centric advancement model as the core game with the exact same model. There are more hero challenges than you actually need points, so you can skip the ones that are too hard/boring/etc.

Were you all the same people complaining there wouldn’t be anything to do in the HoT maps except grind events for mastry xp as well?

They even threw WvW a pretty giant bone here, and honestly the only “grind” in the system is there for the people who go out of their way to avoid the intended advancement paths through either naturally playing WvW or exploring the HoT maps and jump on the sure-to-be-formed EOTM “lets ruin EOTM by using it to farm” train that people who want WvW stuff without actually playing WvW set up already anyway.

Someone explain to me how this is a grind. It looks like fun progression designed to get you moving around the maps, just like leveling in core.

Your question/statement at the end has been answered multiple times.

You are grinding it over and over again, If you want to get elite specs on multiple characters. You are grinding it if you want it quickly. It’s disincentive to sit back and enjoy the content, if you want the elite specs.

TJgalon.5012:

cygnus.8913:

RedDeadFred.1256:

Honestly, I think this is a very good thing. This system encourages you to fully explore the jungle while still allowing you to make up some of the difference with central Tyria mastery points.

They’re called ELITE specializations for a reason guys. It’s part of the progression. I’d much rather have this than some stupid gear grind. This way, instead of just powercreeping up, you’re gradually unlocking some new skills, traits, skins, and runes.

No, you won’t have your Elite Spec fully completed on day 1 (well, maybe you will if you go hard enough), but I’m pretty sure that’s the POINT. It gives you something tangible to work towards while still enjoying the expansion. If you people consider this grind, it means you consider simply playing the game a grind. If that’s the case, why are you still playing?

For one character I’m sure it’ll be fine. But it depends on how much content there is in HoT – we have four new zones and no way of knowing how much landmass we’ll actually have to play with. The cynic in me thinks this requirement is to compensate for what isn’t going to be a lot of content by time-gating access to elite specs with this many HPs.

You need 60 hp after all is unlock on your character. level 80 already nets you all that more or less. any extra goes towards the other. so if you just did level 80 and that it, you can easily do 6 jungle hero challenge and bam elite time. True, unsure how easy 6 will be, but in the beta, I recall at least 3 in easy reach, though I explore more then worry about them.

I take it back, I will make a reply because you need 60 hero points after level 80 just to START on the elite specialization training… essentially it’s 60 hero points to unlock the first minor trait that lets you ‘be’ the spec and use the weapon.

400 hero points total (which some of that isn’t needed as it’s just 2 or 3 skins at the end of it apparently…) but some of the skins appear to be interspersed within the training line. If that’s not the case, and the skins at the end comprise something like 300 hero points (but I do not think it’s nearly that high for them individually), then this isn’t really a big deal, and yes many will have been having a fit for no reason. However, I’ll be shocked if it’s even only 100 skill points for the last 2 skins combined, much less 100 each.

ZeroKaos.1682:

Hmm so let me see if I understand all this crying correctly. We go 3 years with just the core game and ask for an expansion that allows us to do more things in game because most of us have completed 90% of what the current game has to offer. Now that we are 3 days away from one of the most anticipated expansions in guild wars history, you are all crying about having to do too much? Elite specs won’t even require that much to unlock, and you will realize this once you have started playing the expansion in 3 days. People who are complaining about having to go through that grind on multiple characters, I fail to see how that is an anet problem? It was YOUR decision to make multiple characters and it is YOUR decision to continue to play them as you like. If YOU decide to get elite specs for each of those characters, then obviously you will have to put in the work just like everyone else, so stop placing blame on someone else for YOUR own problems. For all the people who casually play this game and are crying about how anet has ruined their chance at getting an elite spec. WHAT!?!?!? I fail to see how they ruined your chance, you just will get the elite spec at a slower pace than others because you are casual players, simply because you play less than them. Also there are ways to get around difficult hero challenges, like say… asking a friend or a guildmate to help you? Anyway I don’t even know why I bother sometimes, this game is said to have the best community but all I’ve seen in my 3 years of playing is a bunch of cry babies that want to be fed with a silver spoon.

TL,DR: stop crying and just play the game.

oh idk, you could take the same advice and not post? Because I don’t really think you took any time to read what was said. I know I never said anything about a silver spoon, didn’t even ask for a silver toothpick. But I sure pointed out a few issues. Like having to unlock skins you may not want just to get traits. Why aren’t the skins separate? Like, I don’t know, collections? Or all of them at the end of the elite spec training (since it appears they are not all there, just some of them are at the end).

Also, You and others are acting like people come in, with 1 character, and want everything handed to them. This is not the case. As stated previously, if you only have 1 of each class right now, that’s 8 characters (ignoring that some of the elite specs are awful), that’s 8 characters you have to take through the new maps, possibly completely through them, just to get the elite spec. If you are an altaholic you have even more to do if you want to use the elite specs at all on them.

My solution is to not even bother with the elite specs really at all for a while. I’d rather enjoy the game, our first new content in a year, than have to rush through it again and again just to access the new specs. But eventually if I want them, I’ll have to do just that, effectively grinding the hero challenges, ignoring actually playing the game and just doing what I can to get to the next hero challenge. And they might not be so quick to do…

Alone.1784:

I can’t imagine a grinder “no grind” game.

So someone thinks ok I want to raid in GW2 with a druid, looks fun. They first have to grind to 80, grind hero points in the old world, grind masteries so they can grind hero points in the jungle, grind fractals or gold so they can get ascended gear, all before they can even think of doing the content they were attracted to in the first place. See a problem here?

I’ve done map completion on a character, it was horrible and I never want to do it again. I have a character of every profession because that to me is actual content that I enjoy. When you’re putting up these artificial time barriers to content that screams to me that you know you’re light on content and have to make it up by stalling people out.

I’m not defending the decision, I’m very critical of it for a number of reasons I’ve stated, and some I haven’t, but you won’t have to do any map completion of central tyria, as apparently there are 40+ jungle challenges. You’ll just have to have the masteries to get to them.

TJgalon.5012:

Day 1 job for me is to worry about holloween. Why bother rushing through HoT. It not going anywhere, have fun, it a game, if you have to force your self to rush, are you having fun?

Again, you are missing what was said, or just not understanding, or not caring yet you keep posting so you must.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/elite-specializations-how-many-hero-points/5628681

of course, I could spend a lot of time finding posts by countless numbers of people, expressing the concerns that you need to read to understand why we are questioning this decision, but I really don’t think you will read it, and don’t worry, I’ll try to remember not to bother responding to your questions and statements.

Ranael.6423:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

There is a LOT of misinformation in this thread…

1. Traits and skills are unlocked separately. There is one line for skills and one line for traits. Open up your hero panel and take a look.

I wouldn’t be so sure after reading this :

It works just like any other training line - except all the skills, traits, skins, abilities, etc. are all inside one full training line that costs 400 points to get everything in the entire line. It costs 60 points to unlock and be able to play as the elite specialization itself.

emphasis mine

Yep, and if the skins aren’t the only things at the end of the line, or if all the skills/traits/abilities cost like 375 hero points, then we are right back to where we are now, with all the same concerns that have been expressed.

Walhalla.5473:

Sytherek.7689:

TJgalon.5012:

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

No, I’m upset because ANet said we could unlock the elite spec with the extra effort of core world completion, and 3-days before release, they say we can’t.

Uhhm you can unlock the Elite Spec with extra Effort of World Completion. You “just” need the full 400 to get everything done which includes Skins and I think that the Skin(s) is the really expensive one there for the Elite Spec

I have no problem with the skins costing extra, I don’t care for most of them, and if I want them, I’ll earn them. Cosmetics are a great way to have a grind, I’m kinda all for that, Fashion Wars 2 after all.
But it appears the skins aren’t all at the end. That too will tick me off if true, because most of the skins don’t appeal to me, and of those that do, I want the traits and utilities first. This, and the timing, are why we are not happy.

TJgalon.5012:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

TJgalon.5012:

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

Some might be, but that should have been unrealistic. No, there are many posts that explain the problem with this but if you want to dismiss people and their issues so easily, I suppose nothing that hasn’t already been said will explain it. Therefore I won’t bother to repeat it.

I basically what I am reading. People are upset they have to earn the stuff they want. It seem like common sense to me, that you have to earn it.

Well you missed a lot. Considering it is already quite a few pages, that is a lot of posts.

Of course you have to earn it. So many people are treating this like we are acting entitled (a word thrown around far too often, essentially as an excuse to dismiss anyone that doesn’t agree with them, or just to dismiss people period).

The issue is alts. If you have 1 class that you play, and nothing more, then yeah you aren’t going to have an issue or to see the problem, you’ll pretty much have it unlocked by the time you finish the content. But even if you only have 1 of each class, counting rev, that’s 9 right? If you want each to have the elite spec, that’s 9 times you have to go through most of the jungle, and these are not maps like queensdale. If you want the elite specs quickly, which a lot of people will, they will have to rush, to grind, the hero challenges repeatedly, and that could have a negative effect on everyone trying to enjoy the new maps. At the very least, you WILL have people rushing through the content, because they are forced to do so if they want elite specs.

TJgalon.5012:

so, if I understand this right, the people are upset because they are not handed everything right out the gate?

Some might be, but that should have been unrealistic. No, there are many posts that explain the problem with this but if you want to dismiss people and their issues so easily, I suppose nothing that hasn’t already been said will explain it. Therefore I won’t bother to repeat it.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Vavume.8065:

I am 100% behind this decision, Elite specs are not called Elite specs for nothing, they are supposed to be something special, do you really think that you would just get that handed on a plate to you? either work for it or don’t, but stop embarrassing yourselves by crying about it.

I’m sorry, I thought doing 100% map completion just to unlock the elite specialization counted as working for it. The devaluation of core Tyrian hero point challenges combined with the inordinate number needed for the elite spec and the fact that you have to unlock everything else first is truly unnecessary and something worth being frustrated over.

Also it appears you have to unlock skins you may not want just to get traits/utilities…

Terra Dactyl.2047:

1. 40 hero points from the new zones is hardly a “massive grind”.
2. if they’re behind masteries, masteries are account bound, so you only need to do those once.
3. If the new points are a massive pain in the tuckus, you can do 10 of the old ones in like 3 minutes instead, or just get them through WvW.
4. Presumably the unique weapon and armor skins are last, so you won’t even need the full 400 for the traits and skills.

You people are acting like you’re being tied to your chairs and forced to max out all masteries on every character (even though they’re account bound), and then do 400 hero challenges. If you have all current ones you need 19. If you have none you need 40 and never play that character anyway. Soooo grindy.

/popcorn

Don’t presume anything…. It’s kinda like assume…
If the skins are after all the traits/skills then we don’t really have a problem, unless it’s 375 points for the skills/traits and 1 point per skin. But I don’t think it’s laid out that way… however I’m not assuming that.

Vael Victus.2654:

It’s an elite spec. There should be some grind, it should be expensive. And it won’t even be, with the jungle’s challenges rewarding us 10 per.

All you should be upset about is having to unlock all traits before going spec; this is reminiscent of the logic behind the old (new) trait system, where you had to unlock with skill points and gold if you weren’t completing certain achievements. It simply wasn’t fun to deal with.

Colin, could you explain the reasoning behind having to unlock all core specializations before working toward an elite?

No, you just answered your own question, it’s an elite spec, deal with it.

I’m sorry but that is exactly what you just said. I know that my point isn’t that it takes a bit of work to get the elite specs, I’m all for enjoying the game, but that is how I should be able to get it. By enjoying the game, not by feeling forced to do things in a repetitive nature. I’ve been repetitively playing the game for far too long due to lack of content. We get new content, only to discover we can’t slowly enjoy it if we want elite specs… Some people are being forced to rush the new content if they want elite specs. How is this a good thing? For me, as I’ve said prior, it means I won’t be touching most elite specs for quite a while, because I intend to enjoy the game, to spend time seeing the new content, instead of rushing past it, however this will still be colored a bit in that I know that later I will have to take other characters through the same stuff multiple times if I want to even try out elite spec builds.

Personally, it’s even less incentive for me to make new characters for different purposes, which means no more character slots will be purchased. On plus side, I won’t have to gear anything new really, just revenant.

lorddarkflare.9186:

illenos.5134:

lorddarkflare.9186:

This is not grind…this is playing content to unlock the class.

Had Arena Net decided to gate these behind the personal story, it would have been effectively the same thing. Gating access behind content.

This…this is the most normal thing in the world.

Get to level 80, then play the expansion to unlock the class.

If you WvW, you play WvW to earn your points. If you PvE, you play PvE to earn your points.

Yeah. Playing the content 24 times! Yay I can’t wait to smash my head against my desk…

So are you saying that they should design the game for people who actively use 24 characters? That is insane.

Hell, at 24 characters pretty much everything will feel like a ‘grind’.

Missing the point that led to those 24 characters. The lack of content for so long, that boredom took over. I know that is the case for multiple people, including myself actually, although I only have 1 of each, except for necro, because one is a pve character, and the other a wvw character, prior to trait changes just destroying alternate playstyles on other characters, I was considering making more, but anet decided that for me when there are now few build choices… well I guess I won’t really be bothering with reaper for a while on that one, either, but point is, there are reasons people have multiple characters.

Mightybird.6034:

lorddarkflare.9186:

This is not grind…this is playing content to unlock the class.

Had Arena Net decided to gate these behind the personal story, it would have been effectively the same thing. Gating access behind content.

This…this is the most normal thing in the world.

Get to level 80, then play the expansion to unlock the class.

Right? I feel like people have become so entitled they don’t want a game anymore. They just want to hit character create and have everything in the game maxed out for them and done.

No, that was beta weekend.

I am most definitely NOT saying I want a game to play itself. I myself say to people to actually play the game. And I’m fully intending to play the game. However, I wanted to enjoy the content (which I will anyways, the first time), but not be forced to practically play the entire new content multiple times on multiple characters, just to get access to elite specs. I’d rather not feel like I have to rush through something as fast as I can on multiple characters. My solution, is to not bother. My solution, is to not take any of my current characters through the HoT story, and instead take Revenant through it. Unless, of course, you have to go far into the story to unlock Revenant.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Honestly… if you can’t spend 2 hours getting the hero challenges unlocked then you don’t really have enough time to play MMO’s. You should consider a different hobby. The MAIN form of progression in this expansion is elite specs and masteries. Why should you just be able to fully complete the main portion of the expansion instantly upon downloading it?

You are forgetting multiple characters. First, you have to get the masteries to get around, etc. However long all of that will take on one character. Then, you have to take all your other characters to each of the hero challenges that you want the elite spec on (I wonder if Anet realizes they are actually discouraging a lot of use of the new specs on multiple characters… perhaps this is the intention?)

And wait, you sit there and think it will only take 2 hours? And then talk about elite specs being the main portion of the expansion… whatever. If you think you can just get through everything in 2 hours shortly after launch, gl.

Vague Memory.2817:

Who thought it was a good idea to add 200pts more than required for all 3 beta weekends to unlock the elite. This is dumb. Even with map completion and all skill point challenges in Tyria done, I’ll be 197 pts shy of a full elite unlock. You guys had it right in the first place and now you spoilt it for no good reason. We already have masteries to keep us in HoT areas, why do people need even more annoying incentive.

Apparently it’s so that no one can unlock the elite specs first day. This was the reason given for changing Liquid Wxp from WvW…

ColinJohanson.2394:

Runiir.6425:

Doesn’t matter what the rate is when you take into account you need every single point in the old maps as well. That x9 is too much.

Except you don’t! There are enough hero challenges in the jungle you don’t need to do any in the core tyrian world – those simply speed you up on day one if you already got them.

I expected incentive to do the content, however I intended to do the content anyways… but you are telling me, that if I want the elite specs, which fortunately I hate some, and dislike others, so you are really telling me how little I’m going to experiment with them, thank you for that. Would have been nice to know a while back. Just wow on the requirement. Even only 40 jungle challenges, that’s quite a bit to get around on. So yeah you’ll have to excuse me for wanting to enjoy content rather than effectively grind hero challenges even if it’s only effectively 40 per character spread across 4 maps.

Rin.1046:

Dear Anet, please can you make it so I can play the game blindfolded and unlock stuff without trying? Having to do stuff while I explore is such a drag. /s

Seriously, do some of you even know what grinding means? The very meaning of the word indicates you are doing something you find unpleasant, hence it grinding. Ignoring the fact you haven’t even tried the full product yet, if exploring the map and doing stuff along the way is unpleasant for you, why are you even playing in the PvE areas in the first place?

This really isn’t an issue, as far as I can tell, and I am willing to at least see how many challenges are available, and whether they are fun or not, before screaming about it being grindy. You haven’t even seen or tried the full maps yet and your complaining about how grindy it is? Unbelievable!

I guess that’s the problem with telling people the numbers, without context/comparison people lose their heads.

Grind is really anything you feel is unnecessary mindnumbing. By definition it is doing the same thing over and over again. This is a very real concern, in that you must also level masteries just to access a lot of these hero challenges. We know this is required. It may also be locked behind story. Even if not, there is still the masteries to contend with, unless the gliding, etc., are all account based? (well should be from what was said right?) Then it shouldn’t be ‘too’ bad to get 40 hero challenges worth 10 points each. Unless, the story locks access to areas, then it’s a bit more unnecessary gating. Anything else, I’d also say this is a grind just to unlock an elite spec, and oh, you have to do it for every single character you want to unlock them on. This is the very definition of grind.

ColinJohanson.2394:

PlatinumMember.5274:

Unless I am mistaken just to unlock half of the training line, we need 212 hero points?

It’s 400 points total to unlock everything in an elite spec training line – I just can’t remember off hand how many points folks have currently if they have done all the existing ones, but it’s right around 200. The rest you’ll need to earn in jungle to unlock the deeper skills/traits/etc. in the training line.

You only need 60 hero points to begin using your elite spec, the points you spend after that continue to unlock more skills, traits, skins, etc.

Again, hero challenges are worth 10 points each in the jungle. So no you don’t need to go do 200-400 jungle challenges.

Does this mean that you MUST do all of the central tyrian hero challenges? Or are there 40 jungle challenges available?

Edit: Because the 1 character I have 100% map comp on, is the one that will NOT be getting elite spec as I hate everything about it (guardian). Next closest one is another elite spec I’m meh on.
If this is the case, could have told us, oh idk, MONTHS AGO.
That is a lot of hero points needed. No, I don’t think anyone expected it to be 1 hero point to unlock everything, but one elite spec requiring the same hero points needed to unlock all of the base lines and skills? This is beyond what was expected.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Embolism.8106:

Why does the forum even need a censor anyway? Especially one as draconian as this?

If you have to ask, you probably won’t agree with anyone’s response. Forums are used by everyone of all ages, maturity levels, etc. It’s reasonable for the owner for the boards to put limits on the tone and tenor of the speech.

I don’t agree that the chat filter is “draconian” — it’s just old school; it cannot easily distinguish subtleties of English (or French or German or Spanish).

Although some words aren’t generally filtered, unless they occur near another word… It’s a bit silly, but it was implemented as an attempt to automatically prevent attempts to get around filters.

I guess the most common denominator on this issue, appears to be stealth. Or at least, it seems to be the most common cause of it. Hopefully, this has already been fixed with HoT >.>

If not, Anet, here is the issue, and if it continues occurring in HoT, will keep complaining on this, as it is quite loud.

gavyne.6847:

Won’t be using it, I couldn’t stand it in ESO. I’m so glad this is a choice and not something forced upon the players. Only thing I’m afraid of is whether future development of content will cater more to this action camera or not. I hope this will remain an optional feature, and that it won’t hinder future content development. I like my MMO’s stay MMO’s, and not get console-fied.

I’m hoping Anet doesn’t take this a step further… I really don’t want console players thrown in with us, yet this takes away the barrier that the targeting system presents…

If it is not on the official list of retailers, any key you get can truly be ‘fake’/stolen and have your entire account shut down. It has happened before, and don’t take the sites word for whether or not they are authorized.

Yay, we are having WvW changed so we never have to leave WvW to accomplish things (btw, sarcasm, because a lot of what I like about WvW, is being taken away/changed and I just don’t have the faith in them, much like all of humanity, to do things right)

-_- so now I have to use most of what I saved up, just so I don’t have to be a footman again in whatever tier I am due next. I hate the footman ranks x.x

(basically trite comment, but the prior bit is the point I wanted to make)

Why do we need different icons to identify a class just because you change 1 trait line/spec? If we get more elite specs at a point in the future, that will be even more icons. All this, for what is essentially 1/3rd of your build, and may or may not actually be changing the class mechanic.

Confirmed that it is indeed Signet of Ether. When you die of course it isn’t active. But when you log out, and back in, it begins healing you, as logging in seems to activate the passive.

leftyboy.9358:

Revenant Shiro on demand superspeed ftw. Great for that world traveler who wants to just run through enemies on the way to an objective without being slowed by combat aggro.

You can’t spam superspeed on that, and if it does allow it at HoT release, it’s a bug. Closest thing to spamming it, is ele, or scrapper (depending on the cooldown on that trait).

Yes that still hasn’t been fixed, hoping it is with HoT, although they do die when they leave again, they still don’t give the loot.

Nightshade.2570:

Entenkommando.5208:

Nightshade.2570:

So often people complain and beg for change. But they do not truly want it.

People are asking for changes, that incentivise the competitive aspect of the gamemode (You know? PvP and stuff…competitive…not PvDoor night shifts) while ANet does everything to ruin a competitive play, so your comment doesn’t really make sense.
Of course we complain when they do stupid things. What else shall we do?

You don’t get it. What you want may not be what other people want. Moving the reset night to the most active night of the week as Mr. Corpening pointed out, is not a move to make WvW less competitive. Its a move to gain more activity in it.

I don’t know why people can’t see they are speaking for themselves not, the majority of players. The numbers speak for themselves, they have the data we don’t.

To be blunt, I think you post just to be contrary. I’m all for playing devil’s advocate, but geeze. For many servers, they already queue all maps at reset… there is no way to get more people into WvW on those servers, as they are blocked from entry the entire time it is queued. Then, the servers with smaller population, might only queue one map, if any. Why is this? Because they have fewer people that want to go in WvW.

At best, Saturday reset will have the same number of people going in that Friday reset currently does. It cannot really have more because of the map population limits, and a servers own population level. Additionally, in these login metrics, information is missing (a constant problem with metrics used everywhere). Information like, why do Fridays have fewer logins than Saturday? A number of factors have already been stated like how dead it really is before it resets. But there are still more, from those that log into wvw to facilitate map travel without paying waypoint fees, to those that go into home bl to craft and access bank easily (keep in mind, these all count as population and WvW logins, even though they aren’t actually playing in WvW). Don’t sit and think that only a couple people across the entire game do this.

There is one server in particular that could always see this at work. Sitting in their borderland, you could just watch the outnumbered buff flashing on and off, almost like clockwork, 15s goes by, flashes on, 5 seconds later, flashes off. And it would really do this almost continuously for the entire time was in their borderland. My guild had a running joke that when we had 3-5 of us in their borderland, they would come in and ask the map what was going on, be told just bluntly that it was our guild tag, curse, then leave the map, because they sure wouldn’t really fight us. Point is, that is a lot of people going in and out of WvW, throwing off simple metrics regardless of the actual reason for them doing so (one true ‘metric’ you can pull from that is, they weren’t going into the map to do WvW if they left the map 5 seconds later)

Still more reasons are also at work, though: Some dislike reset, and prefer to play when things are a little more settled, so they wouldn’t go into WvW at all on Friday because before reset was essentially k-train, and after reset would be queues/zergs. I’m of the mind that, if I wanted to just ktrain and zerg, I’d go to EotM. I’ve done reset, but i’m never really in a group larger than ~15 unless beyond bored, so reset typically offers little.

And a few more direct replies to quoted post: if people don’t speak for themselves, how is anyone supposed to actually communicate their issue with the change? And what about the true ‘silent majority’? You can’t speak for them either. They are forever silent, and won’t post for good or bad. One can only ever infer their desires on a subject by watching those that do respond, and attempt to weight it due to most responses to any questions coming from those with the complaint. Which brings us back to this thread on this situation, and the outcry over it. I’m told Reddit isn’t taking it any better, and some here of course are on Reddit, but many are not.

I know that personally for me, Saturday morning/midday is better because it gives wvw a chance to settle a little from reset fervor, so for those I play with and how we like to play, this is a better approach. I’m not really sure that there can be any solution to fully accommodate ocx/sea though, as even the friday evening reset wasn’t ideal for those players.

Unless there is to be a change in the queue slots for the new borderland (which itself is a bad idea due to the damage that can result in lower tiers), Don’t really see how more people can really enjoy wvw on a saturday than they can with the friday night reset.

DeWolfe.2174:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

snip

This is why the Tiers should be designed differently to compensate for player preference.

It was left up to us, the players, to do so. And we did that to a large extent, especially in EU, but others upset that by their own preferences and actions. This was then amplified by the tournaments and free transfers, and later by the extreme high cost of transfers downward.

Also, there is no viable way to change the tiers to benefit one play style over another without preventing access in some way. Net result would likely be worse than doing nothing at all, anyways. As it stands, without changing tiers at all, without even changing the reset day, the new map and auto upgrades alone have the capability to have dramatic repercussions over the long term, but we’ll have to see how it plays out, and apparently, we’ll have to also deal with this change that we were not anticipating.

Yes, we’ve been waiting on HoT eagerly, but to have so much of what we consider our primary game mode changed in ways that do not look to be healthy at all.. well, just at a loss for words to keep expressing disappointment and frustration with everything, and have to sit looking for a glimmer of hope in a sea of cynicism.

@displayname

I don’t see how you could say that. The only reason people want it on friday is because of the score and people not playing because of the score. It’s all the score and the PPT nothing else.

Easy. Many play on reset, and don’t care about the score or ppt. They care about fights. The fights they want, aren’t available just before reset, and those fights are plenty after reset. WvW is not only about PPT. For many of us, WvW is at least a part of what we consider our ‘end game’. I couldn’t care less about the score or ppt. Sure, I take things, but I take things to get the fights I want, or if no fights are to be had, to help compensate the cost of the siege with loot. It’s boring without fights. Maybe you enjoy PvD and that’s the reason for having such a hard time understanding this? I don’t know. But PPT and score is not all there is to WvW, and matters only to the level of effort you want to put in to secure yourself in the tier that is better for your server. Push too much (really kitten filter? really? it’s okay above, but not here. consistency please… oh right…) on a server below t2, and you will inevitably get outmatched. As far as glicko cares, this is ideal as it helps secure your true rating, but to players, it’s horrible, but that’s a different discussion.

Suffice it to say, Those that love the fights at reset, don’t care about the ppt so much. Those that love to roam and havoc on Sat/Sun don’t necessarily care about ppt. As long as I get the fun I want, I sure don’t care about ppt. I don’t even care to run at reset, but this would still change how I enjoy the game, possibly more so, and all I’ve personally asked, is Why?

Edit: @ comments about pvp. Pvp isn’t really ‘balanced’ either. It’s closest in semblance to rock/paper/scissors, yes, but without the blind choice that makes that balanced. In large part, allowing the change of not just a build, but entire class upon seeing what the enemy is running allows effectively this: “Oh the enemy appears to be running 1 rock and 4 papers, so I’ll change from rock to scissors, to counter 4 of them and just avoid the 1 rock.” I’ll give credit, that takes a little knowledge, but that is hardly balanced, and not really fair to the other team. This isn’t even touching the whole issue many have with the pvp community and the behavior of far too many.
nty, I’d rather have wvw as, shockingly, I’ve witnessed far less toxicity there than in pvp. And may Dwayna and Kormir have mercy on your soul if you go in just to have fun and run something a little different.

@displayname

Yet the people expressing their issues aren’t saying they play for ppt… Also, there is no need to make a dozen posts just to say the same thing. Additionally, that whole timeslice is not a solution, the problems with those ideas have long since been discussed.

I too would like to know why this change. This was not expected at all. Originally, WvW reset was supposed to eventually be every other week, but that never happened and with good reason. The split in times for EU reset and NA made sense. But this? Why this change?

BIRDPUNCHER.8263:

Quote from his blog post:

Any consumable upgrades your guild has purchased that fall into the categories being removed will need to be used before the launch of Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™ or they will disappear.

Will there be word on which consumables will be removed, soon? For example, will the guild world event consumables still exist?

If I’m not mistaken that will be incorporated into Scribe. As for the others, most we don’t know anything about yet.

From what was said before though, influence while it won’t be going away, will not be able to be spent the way we can spend it now, only to exchange into favor/resonance at a poor rate.

and it was said that we’d still get commendations for missions, but unknown if it will be as many commendations as we can get now, fewer, or if we’ll be able to get more.