Guild Wars 2

soysauce.1246:

I ran into lots of situations where I was outnumbered by two to one on my eles and could have won those fights if downstate does not exist. So I kill one guy and he’s in downstate and I heal up a bit. At this point to stop the damage from the downstate guy shooting at me or prevent him from coming back to life, I need to stomp him. But I can’t do that because I still have another guy beating on me so I need to kill him too. It puts me at a disadvantage because the downstate guy can still do good damage to me while I am fighting his friend. I am pretty sure a lot of these fights, I can kill them both if I didn’t have to worry about the downstate guy.

I really like 1v2 fights because I love a good challenge. In this game, downstate just ruin these experiences. Why can’t it be like wow or something where if you try really hard, you can still overcome the odds without having to worry about a dead guy that you just killed.

Isn’t this the nature of pvp.

The fact that you’re at a disadvantage is unfair but you’re looking for a challenge.

“I am so good I should be able to win 1v2 but its unfair when I have already dropped someone to down state and they are killing me.”

hahahaha

You know, I’m sorry I haven’t read this thread to the fullest but i’ll take the advantage to express a thought about condition damage.

Perhaps condition damage shouldn’t just come with almost every auto attack. Perhaps condition damage can be adjusted and placed on the 2-5 skill buttons that take a c/d or initiative.
Hurling condition damage on someone feels so easy and meaningless yet it can really ruin someone’s day. If cond damage was on a 5 – 10 sec c/d or on a 4- 5 initiative but stacked 5 or 8 or 10 bleeds instantly (I wouldn’t know a calculated amount right now) it would make it more meaningful and skillful perhaps?

Then maybe condition removals can be thought thorough and balanced around that standard.

[I hope this didn’t confuse or anger any passionate players.]

S/D, P/P, P/D, D/D, D/P, sBow.

Iron Wolf.5973:

While I know this game gives the player a lot of wiggle room to play as they wish, and that the notion of a hard counter is a bit silly, I still am left wondering if there are certain classes that have natural effectiveness to thieves.

I ask cause, personally, I feel that given WvW or sPvP, I more or less have the hardest time against mesmers, and the mass amount of illusions they spawn with the con damage they can do.

Any thoughts on that?

Right, I play a P/D survival/support thief and when I encounter a good mesmer I have a hard time being offensive while avoiding.
Don’t want to imply that the illusions are OP or anything, I clearly need more practice when it comes to that because I have beaten good mesmers 1v1 before.

I think having an AoE ish weapon handy could help with all the illusions (sbow)
…I think personally I need more practice against good mesmers.

greyblue.4962:

I’ve been testing this out in the PvP training area after seeing thieves do this in WvW. It’s actually really simply to perma-stealth.

First, the build:
1. Put 20 points into shadow arts and acrobatics
2. Take “Infusion of Shadows”, “Patience”, “Fleet Shadow”, and “Quick Recovvery”
3. Equip dagger offhand

The technique:
1. Use any stealth skill to get into range
2. At the exact moment stealth would run out, hit 5 for “Cloak and Dagger”
3. Wait until the exact moment your initiative meter would hit full and hit 5 again (just before the black swirls would appear around your feet).

If you time it exactly right, you never leave stealth at all. If you screw it up and hit too early, you’re in trouble though, as you have 3 seconds where they can see you. If you’re a half second late, you’re visible for that half second, but this isn’t enough time for many NPC’s to get an attack off (let alone players).

You lose 1/2 an initiative per cycle, but this lets you stay stealthed for at least 20 seconds, which is more than the recharge of other stealth skills.

So, I thought “revealed” was supposed to trigger when stealth ran out. Is this a bug? Is stealth supposed to work this way so you can stay permanently invisible? Why doesn’t “revealed” trigger in this case?

Revealed does trigger only when you do damage out of stealth. You can sit there for a long time punching CnD but it won’t kill fast enough and things will start to reset I imagine.
CnD is mainly used to stealth, I don’t know If I’d ever use it to do damage.
I have killed squishy players with it (in pvp) but that rarely happens.

To be honest though I want to try this to its fullest potential like you have. I have tried something similar to this before. I also have tried a nearly infinite daze build with Sword/Dagger which in a group situation could be really messed up.
You don’t do amazing damage again but you lock people down as long as you’re next to them.
Anyway sorry to trail off there.

MrSilver.5269:

I’m a level 80 engineer specced offensively for wvw.

I got a visual on a thief.

Hit him with net shot and got off one single round from hip shot.

Next thing I know I’m dead.

He hit me with a 3,387 steal, 8,294 cloak and dagger, followed by a 13,798 backstab. It was instantaneous damage, with no way to even react, unless of course you include clicking the waypoint in your definition of react.

This isn’t a QQ post. I get it, I’m squishy.

But I’m here on your forum asking for some guidance.

How do I counter that?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Keep your distance, and practice rolling.
Start using your skills only when needed.
Don’t waste skills unless it is for a good reason.
Get used to doing that and you’ll start to figure out better ideas/builds for your self.

Learn to predict their moves.

Fight a bunch, mess up a bunch, be spontaneous with your actions, it will allow you to make mistakes (which is the key factor to improving) and learn from it, you’ll get better.

Every player will do something drastically or subtly different.

Rather than making a post of “don’t you dare” why don’t you make a post of “Anet, what do you think of backstab? will there be changes?”

This is just a complaint thread without your problem ever existing.
Its like a hungry family arguing over imaginary bread.

This thread is stupid.

Mélanie Corolleur.2831:

Thank you all for your reports regarding this issue. Our teams are currently working on this issue as a priority. We will update you on that matter as soon as possible.

In the meantime, we’d like to thank you all for your patience and understanding.

^-THIS. Do something else in the mean time, there is more to gw2 than pvp.

teviko.6049:

Psychrome.9281:

exploit:

— n
1. a notable deed or feat, esp one that is noble or heroic

— vb
2. to take advantage of (a person, situation, etc), esp unethically or unjustly for one’s own ends
3. to make the best use of: to exploit natural resources

[C14: from Old French: accomplishment, from Latin explicitum (something) unfolded, from explic?re to explicate ]

ironic that both parties are using different definitions and meaning the same thing and getting mad about it.

its an ability that is over powered and people are using it to there advantage with the full knowledge that it is over powered

holding a node against all 4 or 5 people who do not know how to beat this strategy is heroic and noble

it is a natural resource of the thief therefore he is exploiting it

While that context is not entirely wrong, people have used the work exploit in video games to denote someone using something (unintentional) that normal players do not have access for personal gain.

It is valid that people are saying that this is not an exploit. While by ‘text’ book it is also a valid definition, the thing is that ‘every’ thief can do this, so not just one thief out of a pool of 100 is exactly gaining an advantage above the rest. Every thief gets access to it.

legit

ok..

Sorry Kita, what ever your goal was in posting this, I imagine you didn’t find your answer.
Better luck next time wording your stuff

You can still use sword pistol. It still does great amount of damage.
Now it just takes a little more work.

Haku.5068:

This thread accomplishes nothing. Because you don’t truly acknowledge it as an exploit because you would report this in the bug forum, and you don’t REALLY want it to get changed because you would suggest that in the suggestions forum.

OP is accomplishing nothing.

well what did you accomplish If I may ask?

No, Kita, no one cares enough to insult you, but you have to understand to abuse a skill and an exploit are two different things. Going under the world is an exploit. Using a skill in an op way is just OP.

If you were to post… “hey this harpoon thief skill that evades is a little op” I think people would give you some constructive feedback.

But you just jump in to it with complaints and to most it comes off like crying, and its annoying.

Whats even more annoying is all the people kittening about the recent patch changes.

Thief can’t do damage underwater as fast as other classes can.

Unless its a glass canon, which in that case you can range them and dodge the sharks.

DODGE the sharks.
If they switch to the harpoon gun, rush in to them n mele them down.

You can spam it yes, You need to have initiative regen to spam it, but its not an exploit.
I think the 3 key gives you back regen actually if you time it right. You know, actually now that I think of it, not allot of people know hot to fight under water in pvp as well as they do on land yet.

Oh also, If you’re a glass cannon your self or weak in general and are hoping to take ruins with sharks on you while being attacked by the defender, well, good luck.

But don’t come to the forums and complain.
These forums are starting to look like the kids corner.

STOP, PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING.

This is Mandra Madador.

You know what…
I run a survival, hit like a girl pistol dagger build.
I have been playing pvp since release and before that.
I have a great time wining every fight almost every encounter.
1v1, 1v2, 1v3.

I’m not in your shoes to understand your over exaggerated pain about this nerf, for I don’t use any one of the abilities that were nerfed.

All of us are still learning to become better, why does every one here jump to a conclusion and assume that this build/skill was the end of the road and it was as good as it gets?

To all of you throwing out blames and posting how you cant do anything. Have you tried fixing your problem your self before being completely rude towards Anet?

Isn’t that the point of evolving? When you’re face to face with your problems, don’t cry, dry your eyes, and fix them.

Games in general are supposed to make us better at thinking.
What you’re asking for and crying for is just hitting a brick wall.

What if they made it a 5% nerf, what if they made it a 20% nerf…holly crap!!
Work with it.
They DO know what they are doing.
They are working professionals and have been so for many, years.
They have successful games under their belts; tons of experience!

You guys on the other hand… what have you done?
If you think you know better? Go make your own game.
Go find a publisher and work on a pitch to wow them to fund your game. Go hire a team of concept artists, go hire a team of 3D artists, go hire a team of coders.
Go compete against other giants of companies that do mmos.
Do it your self if you think everything revolves around your problems.

You know what, you wouldn’t make it out of the door, you guys have no character.
You guys are behaving like a bunch of kids. Maybe you are.

In PVP there is a problem with getting stuck on the loading screen (with the concept art). This happens after re-spawn or autobalance. Sometimes.

You have to force crash your game and log back in or wait till someone wins.

Thank you.

Yep, looks like they want to make the hardcore pvp people think more in fights.
Not to worry though, they’ll still keep it casual for the other crowd as well

good luck!

Man, you guys need to stop with this over emotional complaining.
Clearly no one here has experience in game development nor in balancing a game.
If you want to have it your way that isn’t happening.
Stop constantly accusing Anet like you know what you’re talking about.

Anet balanced something that was being used very well by players better than any one of you drowning in your tears.

Pistol Whip when used well, by “good” players, hits way to hard
No I haven’t had problems with it, I usually avoid stuff that could kill me.
I have seen solid S/P builds take down really tough warriors and guardians in no time.

sheesh enough with the nonsense!

bwillb.2165:

@Crawford What’s Dagger Storm got to do with weaponset choice?

@Krathalos Pistol Whip nerf was not needed. Quickness nerf was needed, but was not included. Pistol whip with quickness will still be OP after the nerf. Pistol whip without quickness was fairly useless even before the nerf.

Look at the big picture, Other classes use Quickness as well…
Maybe they also look at everyone playing not just the ones who complain without any logical feedback.

Maybe there are players out there that are really good in a pro scenario, so they look at them.

Maybe you’re not the standard, maybe you’re not the person who sets the bar high enough to be complaining.

ever see things from different perspectives?
or do you just care about your selves?

I think its just…….“Dev.”

You’d do more than just balance by your self.

You’d also have meetings twice a week, work in a team environment, be politically correct, see problems you need to solve from multiple perspectives, know programming languages to a solid degree, do overtime, run in to problems, meet deadlines, push deadlines, take the initiative and get a raise…etc.

Anet has top notch people working there and it took a long time to build that team.

Sorry to take it down this imaginary road, but you’d be fired as an intern.

I see majority of the complaints about thief or any other high burst scenarios bloom from something like:

You have one type of player going in with a 2 shot build expecting to do crazy damage in pvp…and they do. They kill fast and swift. (didn’t try to hard either)
You have the opponent who is shocked by this. Be it they are also a glass or maybe survival.

That is a jump to a conclusion.
There is no observation as to why this happened.
At the end of it all, no one has learned from their mistakes.
Clearly both players are learning, and growing (hopefully) and making mistakes.

Allot like a witness to the end of a crime scene.
They have no idea what happened to begin with, but are rushing to report it to the police.

Auron.2657:

Dee Jay.2460:

I hope they don’t listen to you.

Thieves are OP in one aspect, and that is burst damage. They are fine, or even underpowered in other areas but that doesn’t justify such high burst.

They should address this just like they should address various bunker builds, be it Engineer, Guardian or Elementalist and any other gross imbalance.

Once again, someone complaining who knows nothing. You do realize we have to sacrifice everything, to reach good burst. Where as a warrior for example, Eviscerate or Hundred blades still does more damage than backstab, while keeping high survivability. Without it, were just a useless profession walking around stealthing not contributing to anything. And when we do reach that burst, we can only do good damage to certain professions.
I think what you don’t understand is, there are so many people going glass cannon in PvP because this games PvP is too dynamic for there simple brains, they get hurt bad by a Thief, which is normal because read my first post, were only good in 1v1, then come crying to forums. I don’t know how much simpler I can put it, there is nothing to discuss.

Yea, I’m with Auron on this one…

Also Auron, Anet does look at players for feed back but they know what they are doing 100% of the time. The way you have written this makes it sound like they blindly listen to every complaint and take it to heart, Like they’ve had brain surgery or something.

I like what you say about sacrifice though. To build a proper glass cannon you drop all survival.
A good player (who could also be built to survive) will avoid that glass cannon and win in the long run.

It does actually take finesse to play a true glass cannon. You don’t just rush in for any kill. You never see that though.

A glass cannon build and play style is more of an in the moment scenario, where as a survival build is thinking ahead and more long term effects.

Again, you have to play well… Its easy to call thief the easiest class to play when one has taken the most obvious juke build.

I’d like to see the same type of mind set challenge them selves and make a build that is hard for them to play.
Thanks for posting this.
I think many things you say needed to be heard despite all the opposing comments.

Good Luck!

I’ve been using Pistol/ Dagger since Beta, I love this setup you can have complete control.
I just switch between pistol and dagger, its all I need in any situation.
Its a 0-0-10-30-30 build.
It has heavy condition and despite the fact that this helps me kill, its not effective enough to depend on it so you have to keep moving and drain your target.
I’m thinking instead of condition I’ll go back to power and crit with the same build.
Its about mobility really.

Yea, right, there is nothing wrong with asking questions. I agree!

But arriving unprepared is no one’s problem but theirs.

As far as improving social skills, this has nothing to do with social time.

I go out with friends and spend time with my girlfriend or family.
I don’t log on to videogames looking for that. I just play.

I play a non cookie cutter and I do great 1v1, 1v2 1v3.
I use pistol/dagger and thats it.
my build is 0-0-10-30-30
and is built all around avoidance and survival.
The condition damage is not re-inforced in any other way but the 30 trait points and the adventurer rune. Its only used for pressure.
Its not easy to play, but I have been doing it for a while now I can do it with my eyes closed.

The thing about this build is that you cant screw up at all.
You can last for a long time, but you cant spam, or hit something at the wrong time.
You have to know what you’re doing 100% of the time.
Its not a popular build at all because it doesn’t do amazing damage right off the bat.
I like that.

There are people who just turn around and run before a fight has been initiated.
When they do that I leave them because I know it in me, I’ll see them again.

Personally, I fight from range, I usually am never in face to face.
I don’t know if thats considered running haha.

I kind of felt bad last night for the opposing worlds.

(from NS)

We were getting rushed hard, and Our lord at garrisons was invulned, I think it was a bug.

Their army worked so hard to run in to a wall at the end.

I think it was a bug, if not, well that must havekitten people off.

Any way i have no idea about this other stuff you guys are talking about.
I do my job and do it well, kill supply caravans. hahaha

Like this topic, will probably be locked.. ^

Maybe they lock topics that really don’t help the improvement of the game..
Since they are the pros and know what they are doing I think you should probably try and see it from a different non hostile pov.

I don’t know what you call em, but I keep seeing about 20-30 people all stacked on each other auto shooting at air. Are those bots? and they are in the same spot every day. Sometimes they are all dead.

It does annoy me though when some one joins in to WvW and starts asking questions about WvW and how its played and what the difference is between this or that or why they are lvl 80 suddenly..

Because there always will be a group of nice people who will stop what they are doing (fighting) to answer the kid that just walked in to the middle of the movie.

My advice for those new guys: Please ask on the forums, or look up a video on youtube.
Or ask around in normal pve world.
Ask you guild..

Does it blind on stealth btw? or was that a trait?
I know i blind when I stealth i think.

and also

I base my comment off of most players that just spam and don’t pace them selves. I mean once the spam has started you can use say, Withdraw and watch them doing everything to air.

bwillb.2165:

Dagger/Pistol uses a ton of initiative, so make sure you take all of the initiative returns you can.Your big damage is done similarly to dual dagger, but instead of cloak and dagger -> backstab -> heartseeker finisher, it’s blackpowder -> heartseeker -> backstab -> heartseeker again because the first one didn’t do any more damage than autoattack

And in the mids of all that, you have to hope they don’t roll away hehehe!

Dagger Pistol can be used for a longer survival.
I personally love using Pistol dagger only.
It’s very flexible if used correctly.

Dagger Pistol is as well but I have had some limitations with it my self.
I don’t like to get in to melee range unless i’m stealing or using cloak and dagger to reset the fight/remove conditions.

Sorry wasn’t on the subject on this one hehe.

The game is not dying, consumer products don’t die hahaha!
Your life is dying fool!

I am no pro.

Every class is played in many unique ways but they are all unified with clarity and logic in mechanics.

If you are told that there is a trick to gain advantage over other players, it most likely will be tagged as a bug and end up getting fixed.

Every player has his or her own unique setup they discovered.

No one owns their builds or play styles because we are not the creators of this game.
We basically discover them and play them.

But in the process of discovery we place value on our knowledge and thus it makes it harder to share with everyone.
IE: If we worked hard to get to where we are etc.

With that in mind, what do you think you need help with?

This is just to good. Are you all in the same guild?
Everyone is agreeing with each other.
That alone is more interesting to me than the topic.

Whats funny to me is that the majority of the complaints are done where there is no pvp confrontation (the forums) so it is to be expected for all the stressed post.

But this one is special! Everyone here is so in tune with each other.
I think this should be the news of this post.

Anyway yea,
posts, crying, w/e its nothing.

Maybe what one can do is create a guild strictly for Duels.
For Example: everyone in this guild can meet in an empty server
(server # – 00/16) and agree on dueling only.

That way you can fill up an entire server with 8v8 players only for dueling, because you have an organized guild for it. Otherwise you have to explain to all the new arrivals in the server that you’re dueling and that doesn’t always work out.

Think of it like “Fight Club”

Its only op when the victim doesn’t move out of the way.
Which happens 95% of the time.

If there is a heavy zerg that intimidates players, they quit thinking they have no chance.

But with a zerg all you have to do is go to the node they are not at.

I don’t understand otherwise what makes players leave.
I am left to assume that their pride has been crushed or really big kitten are playing on the opposing team.

nldixon.8514:

Two things that need to be addressed in my opinion.

First, I’m okay with the downed state. I think it adds a dynamic and interesting twist to PvP. However, quickened stomping (quickness is already an issue all on its own) and stealth stomping are slightly broken as they remove the ability to counter the stomp at all. It’s not a huge issue, just a slightly annoying one.

Second, quitting sPvP and tPvP should have a penalty associated with them. Lower glory gain by 100% for 15 minutes, prevent players from rejoining any PvP matches for 10 minutes, SOMETHING. The constant auto-balancing when people get butt hurt and quit is annoying.

Add a bonus to people who voluntarily choose to switch sides too!

I play a thief, Just to let you know as far as stealth stomping goes, even though we are in stealth we can still be hit. You have to time it in your head and predict as to where we would be/ what we would be doing.
I don’t think its broken but that’s probably because I have been playing against and with most classes for a while now. Its good to know all your angles and escape routes.

I do agree however with the people “rage quitting” a pvp game. Not only is there no penalty but now a team that has been working together has to be torn apart by auto balance.

I think this is the nature of pvp gaming overall.

Sadism and cruelty always exist with violence.
It doesn’t matter if it was intended or accidental.
In death be it real or simulated, there is no dignity.

It’s not a bug.

((A lot of these responses are confusing. You guys do realize you can only have 3 utility skills on your bar at once, right? The whole “Use scorpion wire and shadowstep to close gaps and blinding powder and shadow refuge and then maybe a devourer venom to immobilize…” makes sense if you’re making the argument that there are spells in existence that immobilize, shadowstep, and etc. But obviously they can’t all be equipped at once…
I don’t know. The general tenor is “I get it and you don’t, neener neener neener.” You call my OP a thinly disguised QQ, I call yours a thinly disguised circle jerk. Who says the art of conversation is dead, right?!?! I’m done wasting energy on people who want to do nothing but put words in my mouth and call me a baddie. I hope you all get what you deserve someday. Peace.)) — Pawstruck

It’s funny because you say how it sucks when on other forums people blow you off and write “L2P Noob”

You are really overreacting.
Despite how harsh some of these posts might sound, amongst them, most are helpful. If I was in your situation I would consider this lucky and learn from some these posts.

Because of how you replied, you have to realize that any other post you do will not be taken seriously.

The easiest thing to do is to assume its all negative and blow it all off.

See-ya and good luck!

R.A.T 7 Mouse

Forward-w
Back-s
Left , Right- a,d
Jump – Space
Dodge – Shift
Targeting – Tab

Walk -`

Skills
1
2
3
4
5
z
x
c
v
b
Steal – m5
Swap – m4