Obviously you wouldn’t be able to use weapons as well. Exactly like the other classes who’ve got similar skills. So…either it stays as it is now, or you get some seconds of invulnerability where you can’t do anything. Your choice.
Ya, because tool bets doesnt exist in this game and are not an ever present influence to engineers gameplay like every other class mechanic…
If toolbelt skills were actually worthwhile, you would be right.
But they aren’t. And neither the utilities are that good, outside for kits.
How about this: engineer weapons and kits get scaled up in power to be more comparable with other classes, but dropping a kit puts it on a 15 second cooldown, like ele attunements.
What you’re basically asking for is another available weapon set, on a class that can have access to the greatest number of skills of any profession. That’s not going to happen.
When I play my D/D ele every single time I’m trapped in melee in an unexpected encounter I kick myself and wish I’d brought my engineer that (traited) can fight at a comfortable 1050 range for everything except Blowtorch, not to mention being able to equip an elixir gun or grenades. The ranged utility weaponset you can equip for an ele is 900 range, has charges and a time limit, and cannot be traited to have better range. No, you do not have weapon swap, but unlike ele attunements you can customize which additional “weapon” skills you bring via kits as a class mechanic AND there’s no cooldown for them.
And we use up utilities to take kits with us. Also, they need heavy investment in traits to make them good. That also means that getting more kits makes the untraited ones mediocre, on top of them being already weaker simply because we could use them.Same for our main weapon. By the way, we’ve got to have a kit even if we simply want a non-projectile weapon, cause our mains are all like that.
So we’ve got mediocre weapons because we have the chance to use them, and mediocre utilities and toolbelt skills because we’ve got toolbelt skills. Wow, how convenient.
Not to talk about turrets.
If it weren’t for might-stacking builds, we would already be forgotten and buried.
I’ll remember it as the reason why i should avoid temporary content entirely and stick to CoF when i need to buy the content dropped by that temporary dungeon.
The dungeon itself was nice. Having those rare drops in a temporary content, absolutely awful. They could have done it like with SAB, but noooo, why making it fair for the players…
Except that those 2 weapons are weaker than normal ones (as per class design) and those toolbelt utilities are, usually, really much weaker than normal utilities. I mean, these are the ones on kits…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Mist
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Incendiary_Ammo
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Wrench
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Big_Ol%27_Bomb
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Barrage
Only the last two are really worthwhile, and yet they have some drawbacks (delayed activation in the first case, dispersion in the second – and you need them to be traited anyway for the full effect).
And these are the ones on our weapons. The ones on turrets and utilities are usually even worse, mostly because the utilities themselves are kinda weak in account on having an associated toolbelt skill.
Temporary content + rng = guaranteed rage.
If i had spent that time doing CoF runs, i would probably have already bought it. Such is the absurdity of this situation.
It feels like we’re being ignored. And that is quite annoying. I can understand that fixing it may need some time…but at least, give us an estimate, an acknowledgement of the problem, something.
Imho, the problem is another. As far as the devs’ visions for the classes say, we pay the existance of kits with a reduced damage with our main weapons.
That kinda forces us to use kits, despite having all the other utilities. Technically speaking, our toolbelt mechanic should make up for that…but it really doesn’t. Apart from a couple of them, their effects are really lackluster.
Even the supposed versatility isn’t there anyway. Kits are too dependant on traits to work well. Grenades are kinda useless unless you’ve got explosives grandmaster traits. Bombs kitten your survivability unless you’ve got their grandmaster trait (and the adept, for the range). You’ve got to take juggernaut to make up for the poor damage of the flamethrower and having to fight in a near-melee range. EG has got just the recharge trait (it isn’t really a damage-dealing kit and we haven’t got any trait to increase its support capabilities). Tool kit was mostly used for the prybar.
And all of them aren’t actually that good, as far as damage go.
The only way we’re really viable, as now, is because we can stack might to make up for the poor damage we can do in normal situations. Until they nerf us. Again.
(edited by Manuhell.2759)
Couldn’t we have some news? Like, if it will be fixed with the Southsun patch?
Still, they should do something about retaliation with flame jet. Getting more damage than the one you dealt is quite absurd. Especially since they’ve been nerfing every means of making use of those fast attacks.
Also, some buff on the damage wouldn’t be bad. For a 2.25s autoattack, is kinda underwhelming.
Oh, come on, keep it permanent. Southsun Cove has few to no people exactly because there isn’t anything to do there.
I agree. As things stand now, even a single HB can destroy all the turrets of our elite skill (due to squishyness and hit box). It’s quite underwhelming.
But imho, they should also revise the traits involved. Maybe a trait could give some passive area buff, or there could be ways to change how they work. Those things could give some depth to turrets. They could pair some other traits to free up space for those.
(for example, let’s say they give us a mace and we can “accidentally” change how turrets work by hitting them with the third skill (akin to overloading, but with crazier results). Flame turret could spit out ice and chill opponents, rifle turret could shoot like crazy in a cone for some seconds and emit a smoke field for some other seconds (while not attacking), rocket turret could shoot some rockets at random in an area around it, thumper could thump continuously and make some shockwaves that can damage and remove stability if not avoided (by jumping, akin to the ones in Molten Facility).
If we are talking about new elites i propose a rocket launcher kit or sniper kit. Did not think about the skills yet but it would work like this:
The kit can be swapped to at anytime just like our current kits, but it has charges like ele conjure weapons, different skills use different ammount of charges. This way we could use it in rotations just like our normal kits but once the charges are over it gets a reasonable but long cd.
Well, truth be told, i had proposed something similar to that (but more complex) in the suggestion section. No one cared, though.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Engineer-elite-skill-force-field/1860145
(the kit version)
Since we don’t have a weapon swap, is a melee weapon really something we should have? Especially since we have a melee kit that’s pretty awesome.
Don’t get me wrong, sounds nice to have the option, I just feel it would be a little counterproductive. Though changing the spanner on the tool kit to a monsterous 2-handed pipe wrench would be fantastic.
Well, that’s exactly why we should have a melee weapon. Unless we use tool kit, we haven’t got a real choice as far as melee goes. Our base weapons all use projectiles, and as such we are subject to every “reflect projectile” skill unless we switch to some kit.
Beside that, i would rather have the possibility of giving up our ranged weapon to have a full-turret build (since we wouldn’t be wasting utility slots on tool kit, if the melee weapon could heal turrets as well).
Albeit, i would see a mace as a more appropriate choice.
I would rather like to have something unique (and good, possibly) for the class instead of a choice between two recycled skills. It could even be something like “all stats +300 for 20s, then all stats-100 for 5s (eh, it’s faulty)”.
Imho, the problem isn’t in the aggro itself. Is in the amount of damage and the evasion.
As in, monsters do too much damage anyway even if you’ve got much toughness, but having them attack you constantly means you’ll finish your dodges quite quickly…and then you’ll get mauled to death.
I have a guess it could come from here:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/may-14-2013/
Could we have some acknowledgement regarding this bug? And maybe some news regarding a fix?
They’re are already sub-par even with traits, but having those broken makes them near-useless tier.
1) They can still protect themselves with the shield and reflect with that, if traited. Or swap weapons in combat when needed, eventually.
Anyway, if people need projectile walls, they would rather take guardians or such. We can’t mantain a constant protection from projectiles, after all.
2) Randomization is not necessarly better than not having something. Cause they aren’t interchangeable (and that’s why toss elixir U was crappy before – at least now we’ve got an assured projectile block – and why toss elixir S is still crap – stability and stealth have different purposes). Still, you have to hit allies with the tossed elixir, and that means they are all in a small area (and possibly not moving – the elixir isn’t instant, after all). Whereas shouts are instant, don’t need to aim and, eventually, can heal and remove conditions as added effects…
3)You are still talking about healing turret while completely omitting that it can (and will) be destroyed quite easily by enemies in a couple hits. Even before being able to use the cleansing burst, eventually. Especially when most needed, that is, versus bosses. And since you’ve got to stay near it to being healed, you’re also concentrating the aoes of the enemies in that exact area. And whileas it does give some water fields, if i use the blast finishers there, i won’t buff my allies with area might later (assuming they’re near enough for both, obviously, and more often than not i will be able to buff just 2 or 3 people).
Anyway, guess i should stop as well about feeding the trolls.
We’ve got exactly a single projectile wall, with toss elixir U, at an higher cooldown than the guardian’s one (we must spend 30 points to get a similar cooldown). Our light fields are given either by super elixir, toss elixir r and toss elixir U (if you get the wall of reflection). Of these, only the first one is usually used for that purpose. Still, it isn’t like light fields are that good. We can only get or give protection at random with elixir H, or in response to certain events (due to traits). Regarding regeneration, while they need traits, it applies to all the range of the banners. While ours have either got a small radius (and you won’t actually hit many of your allies) or is given by the healing turret assuming you’re near enough (and turrets can’t survive much anyway). Banners can have a range that is almost double the one of the healing turret, give other passive bonuses as well and can be moved freely without being destroyed by enemy attacks.
Still, they can heal condition via shouts using soldier runes (again, with a larger area than our tossed elixirs, low cooldowns and without even having to aim) and can even heal allies when traited.
Oh, and i have a warrior, anyway.
So, we must compare with one of the least used classes like us – necromancer – and not with the classes more used and considered more useful – warriors, mesmers, guardians.
And you’re omitting all the problems with condition damage – unless you’ve got more condition damage than other people, you aren’t actually contributing with it when conditions overlaps, the fact that some of those kits need to be properly traited to be actually good – and unlike other classes, we’ve got to trait for every one of them singularly, even if they’re treated as utility skills; that what you consider “best condition removals” are either: traited tossed elixirs with a laughable radius; fumigate, that while is good, requires you to physically go to the allies to spray them; a super elixir that heals a single condition unless you do some combo (and with physical projectiles, you should shoot onto them and actually hit an ally while aiming for some enemy) and whose healing is quite poor for a skill that requires you to stay in a limited area for 10 seconds anyway.
But sure, you can give regeneration (but unless you did go for apothecary equipment, it will be quite poor – and if you did so, as our skill are quite hybrid as far as damage go, you’re doing quite a low dps). You can give fury (actually, we’re kinda limited in doing that; either randomly with toss elixir B or with the med kit, but at a single target, or with runes). You can give might if you’re highly specced into it, and that requires traits and/or runes (especially to raise might/boon duration). And even when you go area might via fire field+blast finisher, you’ve got to be really close to allies for them to be affected (so, renewing those stacks in combat for the allies can prove quite difficult).
We can snare bosses (if you mean “immobilize them” with 2 skills: either you’re using rifle or p/p, + glue bomb. I’m not even considering kit refinement/s EG ability. On the other side, all our control skills are wasted due to defiant stacks. And while we can poison our enemies with a certain degree, other classes are better specialized in that regard (necro, thieves).
In the end, even a warrior can support allies better than us, either using shouts for buffs and INSTANT healing or banners that buff all the people in the area and can be freely moved (and eventually, can give regeneration). All without having to aim aoe with small radius or having to blast finish some fields (again, for area effects with small radius). While having the best hp and armor in the game and dealing a lot of direct damage (that can’t be hindered by other players, unlike condition damage).
And that would be nice and good, but we really can’t be a “jack of all trades” as far as the game goes. If you go conditions, you’ve got to pump condition damage, else you won’t actually do damage (due to how they works). If you want to use direct damage, you need some specialized stats and a couple of traits (grenadier, steel-packed powder) to stack vulnerability as well. Crowd control doesn’t work much in dungeons, cause either there are too many trash mobs or you’ve got enemies with defiant stacks.And healing requires heavy investment into healing power for measle results. Basically, our ability to be “jack of all trades” is hindered by the mechanics themselves, and so we must specialize heavily and build up might stacks to make up for the poor damage of our skills (that get nerfed everytime because they are balancing all the game according to pvp, despite pvp and pve being quite different).
Oh, and turrets. We’ve got a game that requires you to be on the move constantly, to avoid all kind of attacks…and turrets that stay still, unable to dodge, unable to block attacks and quite weak as far as hp and defense goes. And they aren’t that good in dealing damage, anyway. I wonder how they thought they could be a good idea.
Grenades are fairly good when traited, yeah. Even so, at longer ranges they tend to disperse (and so you won’t actually hit with all of them) and after a while, my hands start to hurt. Cause we have to spam to attack. That’s exactly why i avoid using them.
And that’s why we are so sought over in PvE and everyone wants an engineer in their party for high level fractals and such things. /sarcasm
Now tell us how you really feel.
In dungeons? A weight, sometimes. Everything we can do, other classes can do better. Except control, maybe, but we can’t do much when enemies have got defiant stacks.
Well, i had made a suggestion about that, anyway, but it was part of something like an “elite” kit.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Engineer-elite-skill-force-field/1860145
The big deal with KF and fractals was the second super elixir. Not the 100nades. U can play the same Kit-swapping build now without KF but the new heal turret which supports your team even more then the second super elixir from KF.
Sure, if it would survive more than a couple seconds. Any AoE pointed at a character will destroy it, since you’ve got to stay near the turret for its effects. And obviously, if your team is near the turret, the enemies are there as well. Even without AoE, often they can just attack and oneshot it.
Returning on topic, on the “why we can’t be like that artwork”, i would say “because devs don’t seem to have a definite vision of this class”.
For the moment boonhate comes in another way as we thought: they don’t reduce the power of boons, they just create more skill/mechanics which convert/steal/whatever boons. I don’t espect a big nerf for might stacking anymore – maybe they change 4th bonus of runes with second bonus for no multiple use of boon duration.
Anyway, mightstacking affects any class: D/D-ele, only strong because of might stacking, GS-Warrior – only deals more dmg then even hammer or sword/sword because of might stacking, ….
Additional, engineer without mightstacking is much more worth/more powerful then most other classes without mightstacking.
Accept it or not: engineer is a powerful class as the jack of all roles in a game with no roles.
And that’s why we are so sought over in PvE and everyone wants an engineer in their party for high level fractals and such things. /sarcasm
No. Our main weapons are lackluster due to kits (or at least that’s what devs said, in regard to dps) and we’ve got no true melee weapon. Gadgets are useless. Turrets may have some practical use just in pvp, cause they are too squishy in PvE and WvsW. Kits need heavy investment in traits to be actually useful (grenade kit without grenadier and steel-packed powder is useless, bombs without EIB lack survivability – especially in PvE/WvsW) or they’ve got other problems (flamethrower is deadly versus retaliation – deadly to us, though). Elixir too are used just due to their traits, otherwise they would be quite poor as buffs, especially the “toss” versions. Just compare them with other classes’ buffs (like warriors’ shouts). Also, we have basically a single good elite.
We should be “jack of all roles” but we’re too dependant on traits to do that. And we’re penalized for this non-existant versatility, in a game where everyone is more or less versatile. In the end, our best builds are all but versatile, relying on getting a lot of might to do some good damage via conditions (in PvP; in PvE, conditions have got their share of problems).
In the end, we are good just in PvP and just with a couple specialized builds, basically, and we get nerfed all the time because of those.
The current version is quite lackluster, as you can use it just for secure stomping and to aid ressing. But as its activation is very noticeable (and so its ending) it has become utterly useless for defensive purposes, like fleeing or making the enemy waste their bursts (as i said, you can easily see its activation…they’ll simply stop doing those bursts). Knowing we can’t do anything, they’ll simply follow us and wait for it to finish. This is particularly bad especially with the trait Self-Regulating Defenses, due to it also interrupting our heals and basically giving us certain death (since we can’t do anything and any enemy can come after us). As such, that trait is now near useless.
So, what i propose is giving Elixir S some seconds of stealth in addition of the invulnerability. Doing so we would be able, when activated, to position ourself tactically and eventually having enough time to heal ourself after its duration has expired or gain some advantage if we wanted to escape. Basically, it would make it versatile, unlike the one we have now.
In addition…please, please change toss elixir S. Stealth and stability aren’t interchangeable. And we haven’t got any other means of getting stability outside that 50% chance (ok, aside when transformed with elixir X and when using Mortar…and no one use them cause they’re really awful).
Now, i understand that there is a pun involved with the S (shrink, stealth, stability), so changing it may be difficult. But, for example, it could give 4s stability and either 2s/3s stealth or 1s stun to enemies. Or something like that. So that, basically, we would have a reliable effect with an added bonus.
But you basically have to make an entire build out of it. Your example used all the trait slots that we have got and two out of three utility slots. Endure pain has quite a better degree of versatility, whatever build you’re using.
And you’re suggesting that Elementalists abusing Mist Form aren’t making an entire build out of that? Put 30 points in both Fire and Air and tell me that this is still an issue.
To get the performance out of Endure Pain like you guys suggest, you have to just as significantly trait and build around it. Without Stability, Endure Pain is not an “escape option” or a “gap creator.” It’s a workaround Frenzy’s 25% increase in damage taken.
I’ve asked this question already and no one answered it: Do any of you actually have any experience playing a Warrior?
I have. And that’s exactly why i’m talking about endure pain. If you’ve got a shout build, you can use them instantly – thus you don’t even need stability – to heal and cleanse conditions. You can directly attack your opponents, eventually using frenzy as well, to mince them before endure pain ends. You can use stability or fear and do whatever you need, be it ress downed people (especially via banner) or/and heal with the healing skill.
Basically, it is versatile. That exact thing that our elixir s lacks now.
On the other side, we can’t do much with that elixir s.
The problem is every one of us is trying to directly compare skills from other classes. The way you make it sound is you want 8 homogeneous classes that look different and play the same. Elixir S is a team skill. You use it to peel off yourself and buy time for your team to help you. Toss elixir S allows you to get crucial stomps and revives.
It cannot be directly compared to endure pain. Also, can’t condition be applied during endure pain?
First of all, Toss elixir S doesn’t allow anything. You’ve got a chance to get what you need, and that’s exactly the problem with our rng skills. Stealth and stability aren’t interchangeable, after all.
Second, we’ve been nerfed exactly because devs compared our skill with elementalists’ mist form. Third, if a skill with 60/48s cooldown has the only use to buy me 3 seconds, i would rather take something else entirely. Especially since i’m buying time for the opponents as well, it isn’t like they stay there waiting, and i’m not damaging them in any way during that time as well. And they can easily follow the engineer anyway, so it isn’t like you peel them away.
Making them homogenuous? If they haven’t got any other way to make those skill useful, it could be a way. Cause as it stays now, Elixir S is near useless beside for stomping. I said it above, if they don’t want us to attack, make it give invulnerability and stealth. So that while you can’t attack, you can still position yourself tactically. And eventually, heal yourself.
It would be different from the other ones, but still useful.
(edited by Manuhell.2759)
Imho, elixir S (and mist form, maybe, assuming there isn’t something more appropriate lore-wise) should give some seconds of stealth as well, allowing for tactical repositioning. Sure, you are unable to damage the opponent or heal yourself, but you can prepare yourself to do so.
As it stands now, you’re simply delaying your death.
And still you’re basing your assumption on people using all those traits and utilities.
I don’t see how that’s unfair.
You’re all basing your assumptions that an Elementalist is going to attune Water and trait for Evasive Arcana. You all assume that a Warrior is going to have Dolyak Signet/Balanced Stance on their bar for Stability.
You guys say X class has this, this, this, and this … but they don’t get any of that passively. They have to trait/gear/slot it. I’m suggesting we have very much the same options.
But you basically have to make an entire build out of it. Your example used all the trait slots that we have got and two out of three utility slots. Endure pain has quite a better degree of versatility, whatever build you’re using.
On the other side, we can’t do much with that elixir s. Any smart player will avoid using bursts when he see us shrinking. Oh, sure, you may fool some warrior using hundred blades…and then? Sure, we’ve got 3 seconds during the while our cooldowns get refreshed, but that’s true for our opponents too. It doesn’t change the situation for us anyway. Just a simple 3s delay with an easily noticeable activation and ending.
There is no point on using it beside stomping, basically. It doesn’t give you means to escape. It doesn’t give you means to defeat your opponent before he can do the same. It doesn’t even give you a positional advantage toward him, since he can see perfectly where are you going.
As i said, if they don’t want the engineer to attack or heal while invulnerable, the solution is simple: 3s invulnerability + stealth. You still can’t attack, but the enemy can’t follow you. And if you’ve been able to fool your opponent, you can then heal yourself in those few seconds where the enemy is searching for you.
Weapon stats and sigils do apply.
And still you’re basing your assumption on people using all those traits and utilities.
Cause by ourself we have no reliable way of getting protection (elixir H/toss elixir H gives it randomly, after all).As far as perma vigor/swiftness, it requires you to switch a kit every 5 seconds (thus losing some time in the process). And three of those traits are in the alchemy line anyway – getting all of them means not getting hgh. I doubt somebody really does it. Even then, you’re spending all your traits and two utility slots in order to be survivable. Having at least that survivability is a given (and while we’ve got 12 seconds of immunity, that also means that you can’t attack 1/4 of the time). But we shouldn’t be supposed to lack survivability unless we take all those traits, and neither our skills are supposed to be crappy unless we take all their associated traits.
Anyway, our actual problem is exactly what you’re describing with endure pain: you can’t flee anyway cause you would die, and so you attack, trying to down the enemy before the immunity ends. With the elixir S change, especially due of it being very noticeable when used, we can just delay our death by three seconds. No one is stopping enemies from coming after us, especially since they already know we can’t do anything in that form. Any smart enemy will just wait for us to be damageable again – and again, you can easily notice it when it happens.
If they wanted us to use it as an escape tool, they should have done something like giving both invulnerability and stealth, so that people can’t see where we are fleeing (thus giving us some precious seconds after it ends, while the enemy is still searching for us, to heal ourselves). As far as the current skill go, it is just a sign telling the enemy “kill me after this ends”.
Guess you aren’t getting the point.
That is, until they decide to truly divide pve and pvp balancing, they can’t actually balance. As i also wrote above, anyway.
We’ve been nerfed a lot cause we can be good in pvp (thanks to certain particular builds), all the while ignoring how we are bad in pve.
For warriors is the opposite. They continue getting buffs because they’re bad in pvp, all the while ignoring how they’re good in pve.
Unfortunately, it is normal. Yeah, retaliation and flame jet is basically like asking for suicide. Kinda annoying, especially since everything we could process by making use of the fast attacks got nerfed (incendiary powder, crit foods). Now it is more harm than good.
/You have been staggered for 2759 damage by Manuhell’s hyperbole.
Did you ever tried using them outside PvP? Like, in Fractals? Good luck making them survive there.
No, you don’t have any right to demand anything. Of anyone. Ever. Not in life or online… especially not online. Go ahead, demand me to do something. LOL. Child.
Well, avoiding to call others “child” because they’ve got a different opinion than yours could be a start.
You know, maybe everything I can do, you can do better (re: other professions), but I can do everything, you can’t.
What really is: engineer is a versatile class that brings numerous options to any given situation by always being prepared with various kits, gadgets, turrets, and elixirs. many skills need polishing and refinement, just like every profession.
We should be that. But we aren’t, for a couple reasons.
Kits depend too much on traits, especially grandmaster ones – all in different trees – for them to be actually interchangeable. Grenades without grenadier and steel-packet powder are useless as far as damage go; Bombs lack survivability without EIB. Flamethrower and elixir gun have got less problems, mostly because juggernaut got changed back then (and due of that we lack reliable means of stability, but that’s another matter).
On top of that, these traits often reference a single kit, so a single utility skill. We had just two traits that worked on all of them, and one got badly nerfed (despite what you think about the matter).
One other problem was given by the lack of different balancing between PvE/PvP; while they started to do that now, we’re still suffering from the past nerfs (that were done for PvP reasons)
The major problem lies in their concept of versatility. A versatile class…in a game where there is no trinity and every class has some degree of versatility. And we pay a price for being “highly versatile” (unlike the king of versatility, as they call them elementalists).
And well, then there is the whole problem with conditions in PvE, but that isn’t exclusive of this class. Although, we kinda lack in the direct damage department unless we use turrets and rifle (and turrets, as i said above, lack survivability -especially in pve).
Gadgets…heh…guess they should really rework them from scratch.
[/quote]
what you seem to want: engineers to be like elementalists and not only bring everything to the table, but to do so in such a manner as pushing a button makes you win.
This is not class balance.
No, but neither is what we’re getting as now.
Anet is in the process of bringing professions down, reigning them in, and they are doing it piecemeal. Maybe engi has received more nerfs because they chose to work on engi first since, at launch, they were still unhappy with where the class was, but were forced to launch the game by NCSoft who was starting to count beans and wanted more.
And how exactly can you achieve a balance by nerfing to the ground the class least played (or one of the least played anyway) while buffing more or less constantly the others?
Had to split into two posts, it was too long.
They don’t die in a couple of hits. You are exaggerating your claim. The problem is the excessive blanket AoE in the game and not the turrets. Anet has claimed they will be addressing AoE at a future date. Defiant stacks on a boss do not stop your rocket and rifle and flame turrets from doing damage.
They die in a couple of hits indeed, especially in dungeons. Not to talk about bosses, where your control skills don’t work – due to defiant stacks – and they’re free to maul whatever turret they can hit. Or AoE them, as said above. A good half of them have got a pretty short range anyway, so they can be easily hit either by normal attacks or by AoE (even the one casted directly on players).
And until they do something about that, i don’t care what they claim they want to address.
That isn’t true. We bring more water fields than any other class
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_field
As far as the number goes, it is in par with other classes; Whileas our recharge times are better, they’re still based on the (wrong) assumption that the healing turret will survive.
we have the longest ranged aoe weapon in the game
Only if traited, and you need a grandmaster trait. And still, it can easily miss from that distance. Also, you basically need to go glass cannon to make some decent damage.
we have the fastest critting short range aoe weapon in the game
With a negligible damage and hits 3 targets max; also, retaliation kill you.
we have free, instant weapon (kit) swapping
They cost us utility slots and we take a toll in the dps department according to “their vision” because of them
have the best healing skills, etc, etc.
Guess this is just your opinion on the matter. Like the ones above.
What part of their vision doesn’t work so far? Be specific, because, frankly, what their vision is, at this point, is guess work. What is their vision? Do you know?
Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.
It makes me wonder if they even tested the skill when they changed it. I mean, it seems quite noticeable. At least, noticeable outside of the pvp environment…
But they’ve got many means of getting stability and coupled with endure pain (that has also got a longer duration than our elixir, even more if traited), it gives them quite the advantage, even in tactical terms. Whileas we can just pop the elixir and wait for it to end.
Our choices for unblockable healing were either to heal during elixir S or having a chance of getting stability by toss elixir S and healing during those seconds. Now we’ve got just the latter, that means, no reliable way of healing when truly needed.
And it isn’t like there weren’t other way to change it. They could have changed toss elixir S to give stability and some other random boon and give elixir S, say, 3s invulnerability and 3s or 4s stealth, so that they can’t simply come after you and wait for it to expire to kill you. And we would have got some reliable way of getting stability.
I think you people are overreacting. Engi is very viable.
The only issues with engi are that turrets still suck and gadgets need re-work.
That’s basically half of our utility skills, you know.
And imho, kit should need some love as well. They’re far too much trait-dependant. I mean, grenade kit without the grandmaster (minor and major) traits is kinda useless by itself. And you lose quite some survivability if you use bombs without EIB.
That doesn’t mean devs hate the class. they clearly, it appears to me, do not want turrets to be tanks, they want us to manage them and heal them
Can’t do it if they die in a couple hits. And i can’t manage something that stays still in an area, unable to dodge, while any enemy can easily destroy all of them with a single AoE. Especially in PvE, where any boss has got defiant stacks.
do they have more work to do? yes, but they take slow gradual steps. what seem to us like senseless buffs and nerfs are, as shown by their track record, staged moves towards their vision.
So far they still seem like senseless buffs and nerfs. A lot of nerfs, especially. And their vision doesn’t seem to work that well so far – as far as PvE goes, we’re one of the least played classes, and we can’t bring anything to the table that other classes can’t do better.
kind of like a game.of chess, think several moves ahead, with all options on the table.
I could, if there weren’t defiant stacks and turrets weren’t one-shotted.
this is their game, not yours. so no, you don’t have the right to cry foul and demand anything. all you have the right to do is offer feedback and suggestions, and frankly, if you don’t like the answers you are free and welcome to take your defeatist attitude elsewhere.
I have every right to demand this class to be as good as the others. And their vision is clearly failing about this. Mostly because there doesn’t seem to be one. So much for versatility, yet they nerf every mean we have to achieve that and shoehorn us in a couple build.
Guess i’ll stay here with my defeatist attitude until they don’t make this class on par with others in pve.
Despite what you can say, this patch was a nerf indeed (aimed especially at might stacking condition builds). Even the turret change has got its drawbacks (i used to put it on the ground and making it explode immediatly on a fire field to get area might; if i do that now, i get just half of the healing; if i use the cleansing burst, i’ve got to wait for the water field to end…assuming it stays alive for those seconds; either i lose on healing or might upkeep, basically). The incendiary powder change means i’ll have overall less burning spread across the enemies (that also impact the damage, due to flame jet bonus vs burning foes). The elixir S change is mostly pvp related and now it can be used basically just for stomping purposes; any smart opponent would postpone bursts when they see you using it anyway.
As far as PvE goes, engineer gets constantly nerfed update after update. And often it isn’t even directly its fault: things like the crit food nerf, quickness nerf, elixir s/mist form and similiar were done because other classes were too strong with those.
Even when we have something unique to the class, it gets nerfed to oblivion anyway (hi, Kit Refinement). And all of this while avoiding to address the problems. We’ve been talking for months about how turrets lack survivability, and they’re still the same. Just see this patch, they’ve buffed basically any minion/pet/similar ai controlled companion…but not turrets. Seems like a joke. Seems like they don’t even care.
And it is really getting annoying, especially when i see buffs after buffs for other classes.
(and don’t tell me warriors really needed buffs in PvE)
Seeing as they still haven’t addressed the main problem of turrets, that is survivability, we have every reason to complain.
Especially if they rework the healing turret basing it on it being able to survive enough time.
The point is Endure Pain is not immunity. You can still apply control effects and conditions to someone who is under Endure Pain. That means you could interrupt that healing skill or battle standard, while Elixir S and Mist Form made it uninterruptable.
Can’t control if they’ve got stability, and they’ve got reliable means to get that. And shouts are instant anyway (1192+0.8*healing power area heal with the trait, clean a condition with the runes).
But it’s not true that you can’t do anything during those three seconds. You can reposition, you can line of sight, your Endurance is refilling, and your other skills are coming off their cooldowns. Even if it’s completely untraited it’s still a stun break and three seconds of invulnerability; traited, it’s only better.
Well, that is supposing the enemies stay still, watching you while you go away.
What will reasonably happen is that they’ll simply follow and finish you when the elixir s effect finishes – and it is quite noticeable when it happens – before you can heal.
Before, you could pop Elixir S, use Elixir H (1s), drop Supply Crate (1s), and still eek out a Freeze Grenade (0.5s). All while being completely immune to damage. That’s over the top, and I’m having a hard time understanding how anyone could claim otherwise. If traited, some builds had two 3s windows like this in a very short span of time. That’s just crazy.
A warrior can use endure pain (4s or 5s) and use any shout (instant) to area heal, area cleanse conditions and area buff allies(or other effects) if traited and equipped with the correct runes. While attacking.
Or he could use an utility to get stability, use the healing skill and summon the battle standard to ress and buff downed allies. And he still got some seconds to attack.
And he can do it two times as well .
Yet this is considered acceptable?
The toss can give those boons, yeah. Except that we have no control about what it does, so it is basically unreliable.
And if you use elixir s people will simply avoid to use those big burst combo; they’ll wait those 3 seconds, well knowing that you can’t do anything during them anyway.
Well, that leaves just the stomp. A nice 60s cooldown stomp. Quite forgettable.
They weren’t the same thing even before. Now it is simply a useless skill. Using it when you’ve got low hp means simply delaying the unavoidable and even if you would like to use it to avoid bursts…well, the enemy can just wait for the skill to go off and maul you after that. Since you can’t do anything during those 3s anyway.
Being able to heal and cleanse conditions while not getting direct damage is quite more powerful than delaying your defeat by three seconds. Warriors can also get stability by various means anyway, and they’ll probably do it when needed.
Edit: well, the person i was replying to deleted the post, it would seem.
(edited by Manuhell.2759)
I was talking about Cleansing Formula 409, not Elixir S. That was, after all, the question:
“Who doesn’t take Cleansing Formula 409 in sPvP/WvW?”
Well, i misinterpreted the reply. Anyway, i don’t use it. I used just elixir H and S anyway. Now i would rather use a couple turrets or something else, depending on the situation.
By the way, was it that wrong if we were “best” in something? Or we’re supposed to be mediocre in everything, maybe? Cause every single time there is something good, it gets nerfed to the ground. And it feels quite annoying.
(edited by Manuhell.2759)
Imho, turrets still lack survivability. Especially in PvE/WvsW. And this greatly impact healing turrets’ heals, cause they are based on the assumption that it will survive.
Such a thing is a mere illusion in pve. The low range requires it to be near the people fighting, but that also means being right near enemies and aoe.
And often a single aoe or a couple of attacks can obliterate it.