Guild Wars 2

bigmonto.4215:

What exactly are you disagreeing on. My statement is: “a army guy can out run me”. How well do you know me to disagree on that? Sure an athletic guy wears nothing can out run an athletic guys that wears a lot, but what about an non-athletic guy? Are you assuming the mages, and the mesmers are athletic enough to out run a very athletic guy wearing a lot?

Your argument is BS because

A: you try to justify the current state of Warrior with fluff

B: you assume that every class other than Warrior is an untrained internet-user with no relevant skills whatsoever.

Terrahero.9358:

With Hide in the Shadows i remove all bleeds, poison and burning. And with shadow embrace i remove 1 conditions every 3sec in stealth. And there is a lot of stealth.

Thief condition removal is amongst the highest for the lowest investment, suggesting conditions are a counter to thieves is the same brand of nonsense as saying AoE is a counter to thieves.

Yes, HiS removes these easily applied conditions once every 30 seconds. What you still fail to see is that LordByron and I were discussing what thieves would need in exchange for the removed/nerfed ability to flee (a.k.a. stealth).
I main thief and I can assure you, we melt to conditions like butter in the sun. If players fail to realize that HiS has a 1 sec cast time that can be interrupted and that AoEs are meant to used point blank then no amount of nerf to the underpowered husk of a class called thief could help them – they will lose because they are bad.
I just started triple meditation guard and there is nothing an average thief can do against it but to run – and, if he likes the humiliation, rinse and repeat.

Terrahero.9358:

Thief condition clear is already fantastic, and easy to get.

I suppose you haven’t read LordByrons and my posts above?
Shadow’s Embrace is ok for a class that is supposed to be weak against conditions (and far from “fantastic” when compared to Necro, Warr etc.).

LordByron.8369:

@marauder.

Yet no thief layer would trade that ability in Exchange for something else.
The number of stealth thieves even when other builds were effective, speaks for itself.
nuff said

give me a reliable source of stability, a decent condi clear, and the damage thieves deserve and you can count me in.

“What’s wrong with thieves?”

They are simply too weak. With all the nerfing, they cannot compete with the shenanigans other classes throw around. You either gank unaware/new players or die. I switched to warr after ferocity and came back because the class is so ridiculously boring. Now I tried out power necro and triple meditation guard and i thought “holy kitten, is this how the game is supposed to be?”. Other classes get more of everything, including DPS (arguably not burst-damage). It’s quite telling that the newest “nerf teef” trend adresses their ability to flee combat. Because that’s all that is left on the class.

Silent Shino.7239:

“Burning: just fine”

" I main a guardian"

XD Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.

What’s next? “Remove blocks and invulnerability, they annoy me. But not on Guardian, it’s just fine there.”

That post made my day…

Zelulose.8695:

I actually do play thief, and I know how stealth works. I’m saying to remove reveal. Its a buff to the thief play style for burst and a nerf to sustained fights for over 10 minutes because brain dead stealth spamming wont achieve massive damage. A buff + a nerf = class rework (or a compromise.)

No revealed won’t achieve massive damage? What game are you playing? People could stealth-spam ridiculously easy without revealed. Any and all thieves would trade the complete invisibility for no revealed. It would be like in the good OP days.

I will buy a st and color it white an red.
“Make way for the Ninja Nurse!”

Zelulose.8695:

Also, the only class that would have a hard time vs this would be mesmer who really never should have a problem with thief if they back into a clone. This way clones eat the backstab. Pistol often can also be evaded by standing behind clones.

Ok, thread closed. You just want thieves to be walking lootbags that don’t pose a threat to any class, no constructive discussion to be found here.

Protip: stealth doesn’t work the way you think it works. Play Thief yourself. That way, you will learn counters, QQ less and will notice how ba suggestions like revealed on block/hit are.

Have fun.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Yes. Use them so they can be blinded, dodged, evaded, then they can do their bursts without interruption.
Rofl.

So you want thieves to just stand still and deny them any means to defend? You really see a balance problem in getting outplayed?

I find the idea of diametrically increasing heal interesting, however, I would say the burst heal is way too powerful, considering it comes as a bonus on top of condi cleanse and burst damage. I think adding tactics to warrior gamplay is great but in this form, it adds too much to the “get everything at once as warrior” feeling that people hate.

This would maybe satisfy the sobbing crowd of bad players (but only for 5 minutes after the patch) but wouldn’t work.
People don’t get that not seeing you opponent is a L2P issue, but with your changes effects like shadow’s rejuvenation and shadow’s embrace would be way too powerful. And 2 backstabs/1.5 seconds would lead to a whole new level of thief hate.

I generally frown upon dumbing down concepts but this could actually work and be nice training wheels for newbies. As long as evades are still unnoticed and I can switch it off (UI is full enough for me), I support this.

Shadowfall.6543:

More 2 cents.

Many of the stealth supporters here seem to postulate that perma stealth is not a huge advantage that can be countered easily once people learn to play.

On a separate note, I think most people will agree that Rangers could use a little love in some other build diversity.

I am not going to agree or disagree only postulate this:

I think we should give rangers access to perma stealth. It seems fair right? It’s not that big of an advantage once one learns to play, it also makes sense for a scout to disappear into the wilderness. They already have some stealth with hunters shot.

Would anyone change their opinions of perma-stealth if rangers had access to it?

No amount of perma stealth would help the 70% of rangers that insist on using their longbow, no matter how hard I poke my 20 cm dagger into their chest.
Sure, give them perma stealth but reduce their HP to lowest tier and take CC and condi cleanse away from them.
Also, for god’s sake, get a sigill of fire, stealth-whiners. Even if you can’t watch your AA-animation, the burnmark should be visible even with your tear-stained eyes.

Hitman.5829:

When a warrior uses a stance, the thief or anyone that uses stealth should be revealed for AT LEAST half of the time the stance last. Currently they can go in stealth and just sit there for eternity waiting for the stance to wear out.

The stances already deny thieves their burst and deplete a large portion of their initiative. And you want to turn them into an auto-win-buttion because apparently you just stand still in a fight? After you played bad enough to let the thief go into stealth?
I generally dislike the “L2P”-argument, but dude, you really earned it.

L2P

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Specifically there are a few WvW traps abilities that we try to avoid:

• Traps that can instantly kill players. We don’t want you to be able to passively wipe a group by stacking three invisible explosive traps on top of each-other. That said, we are more open to these types of traps as long as there is some counterplay available (like the trap has a visible land mine effect, or gives the group warning to dodge away quickly before it explodes.)

Why did you add the stealth disruptor trap then? This kind of trap is an insta-death to some builds while others are not even touched. If you aimed for counterplay against zerg-veil, why doesn’t it just end stealth, without the 30 seconds of revealed-debuff? You could also add traps that lock F1-F4-skills for 30 seconds or disable CC-effects of skills for that time (both of them would be totally unfair to certain builds but at least there’s an unfair trap for every class then).

Ninjapotpie.6973:

I spend 90% of my time guarding a tower on my home map. Is I see sentrys flipping and camps with swords I go see what’s what. I am amazed to often find a solo player in a camp guards all dead ring up I rush in and….. They run away. Or I catch them leaving a camp after capping it and…. They run. They choose to roam solo. I am alone why not stop and fight? Pveing camps is easy. I can solo clear them in about A min…. I enjoy the challenge of fighting other PEOPLE that is why am in a PvP area….

The guy that ran from you made points for his server, claimed your supps and got out alive, denying you the stomp point. You got nothing. See the difference?

It’s fine that you enjoy the challenge of fighting other people (so do I) but it doesn’t matter, since the other guy doesn’t and was able to disengage.
Nothing wrong here, stop QQ and go spvp.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’m so tired of that excuse “not spec’d for roaming.” Do you come to WvW expecting not to engage in some form of PvP, whether it be large or small scale? Sorry, not being spec’dfor roaming is not a legitimate excuse. Don’t roam if you don’t want to fight, have a secondary set with you that you can use when you’re solo (considering you can reset traits on the go there’s no reason not to) and unless you have an objective like defending an ally, tower, camp or are trying to reach your zerg, don’t be a pitiful runner. If you don’t learn how to fight when the odds are against you you’re never going to know your full potential.

How about this reason: I simply don’t want to fight. It is as legitimate as any other (including wrong specs), since this is a game, and more importantly, it is not your game. Other people are not there for your entertainment.
I run D/D valk/zerker thief and roam a lot. When I 1v1 another roamer it’s fine. It’s fine when I catch a PVT warr outside of his zerg as well. And you know what? It’s also fine if that player teleports before engaging me because he doesn’t want to give me a free lootbag.
Other players don’t owe you fair fights or the points or loot and every kill the other server doesn’t get is a contribution to your own server
(likewise, I don’t feel obligated to stay and fight a condi engi).

I’m absolutely against the addition of any more stat boni to wvw. It is already out of hand and we don’t need more flawed features to reduce new players to walking lootbags.

Phoenixlin.8624:

But I guess OP’s real problem is not being able to get stomp (kill) points for the server.

The last matchups were so clearly in favor of AM that the points for stomping were meaningless.
This whole threads feels like QQ because they were roflstomped.

I think this an interesting concept. It would be a nice replacer for foodbuff/guard stack in wvw that wouldn’t punish poor/new players with severe disadvantages.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

Actually knights/dire, and I wish I knew then at least I could figure out a counter. And normally they just stealth and get ready to burst again while I try to swing/AoE/dodge blindly and hope I get lucky.

YES!!! I knew this will drift towards another “nerf teef” thread eventually

Yamsandjams.3267:

For those saying just bomb the spot, it’s not always a possibility. Maybe if you have a whole party with you, yeah, but it’s very easy to out-rez you damage, especially since the refuge itself will be providing healing.

If you don’t have a party with you that means you are fighting at least a 1v2. You are not meant to be on equal terms in this situation.
Also, the healing is neglectible, considering the rain of blows you stand in.

I think it was the right move. The last servers are the low-pop ones and had to fight way harder for their achievement than gold league blobs (or even Abbaddon’s Mouth, where I am).
The tournament in this design had several flaws and was not a good way to determine the “best” server (although I enjoyed it), so people should take off their “I’m the best” attitude and be good sportsmen.

frans.8092:

Would be nice to have it do something that actually could help. Maybe just reduce weapon cooldown, or give +10% IMS, or +50 Vit or something. Or to really help with PPT, longer duration on the Supervisor buff and/or other buffs to aliied NPC’s

Or give everyone the full guard stacks, regardless of actually having the traits.

I don’t get it. spam2-thieves are free kills, especially for other thieves. Stealth (they lose target), wait until their bunnyhopping depleted all of their initiative and snuff them out.
Other classes can use blocks and conveniently keep the exhausted thief in melee reach.

vincecontix.1264:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxwOkoeUK3M

enjoy.

If you play that neglectfully on thief, you’re dead meat. S/he messes up most of her/his dodges (even in the 1v1s) and still wins due to the forgiving nature of warriors. At 6 mins a dodge was ready and s/he still got downed? Great skill…

Last refuge definitely needs a fix. Mesmer’s Desperate Decoy is so similar that it really looks like an oversight.

I had several game crashes on EB during the last days (especially when porting within the map). However, i cannot say whether this is an actual EB problem since i didn’t play much anywhere else.

Lord Jim.3971:

This seems to come up in every single post about roaming in WvW and I just can’t believe its true. EU doesn’t really have “havoc groups” but what we do is probably pretty close and fights are usually a procession until you are outnumbered thus killing soloers beyond getting stacks or discouraging ones that are being idiots from continued stupidity is a waste of time. I can’t believe that there is a large enough number of “organised” groups out there that do those things to justify the amount of times this complaint comes up.

In our current matchup, even fully upgraded camps with mercs had ad leats three players in it. Not to mention the 5-7 player groups that only fought smaller numbers (in canon range, of course). Some servers have the manpower.

Why is this thread here? Heavies rule the game, every format of it. Works as intended.

I thought we had that established?

Solo-Roaming is rarely any fun these days. Too many organized havoc groups that only farm single players and run when the numbers start to even out.

Definitely a small but good change. I would like to see a lighter red for minions and NPCs as well.

Karolis.4261:

Currently? Im very happy when it hits for 6k in www with maxed out crit damage. Much op too damage plz nerf.

Yeah, it’s a little sad when auto-attacks have better DPS than the backstab (considering the time to setup). Of course, the math doesn’t stop people from QQing about OP backstabs.
Best I had lately was 11k-ish on a zerker thief after a several CnDs (so a couple of might stacks) in WvW with full stacks, but the average Guard/Warr has to be tickled to death with 3-5k backstabs (where the actual effect is more a psychological one).
When I was on my Warr the last day I ran into a thief and was in a hurry to flip a tower. He backstabbed me once, I kept on running afterwards…he just gave up, seeing my almost full HP-bar (full zerker and almost 3K armor is fun).

kitten teefs, so OP! They can get out of fights if they want…like Rangers…or Eles…or Guards, Mesmers and Warrs (with Warrs being able to decide whether to stop and snuff out the life of their exhausted pursuers, that’s hilarious).

915 h over 641 d. way too much time…

Delois.3974:

Everyone who wants everyone to get rewards, what should the incentive be for winning?

honour.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

there is nothing fair about meeting a warrior on equal terms when you play a squishy class. The warrior can kill you in 4-kittens, while you got to really work for your kill in wearing them down with conditions and hoping their food is not as effective as your ability to keep the conditions coming. Even taking them by surprise is touch and go.

I only have trouble with condi bunkers, the rest feels rather fair and it depends on skill whether I lose or win. The warr might be OP atm but I don’t think it is a viable solution to give other classes better instagib potential. Warrs would cry because of uncounterable gameplay and others would still cry because warrs are still too strong in open fights. Sure, winning/losing would be better distributed but not because of fair and enjoyable fights.

Nymph of Meliai.6739:

I agree with OP… I would like to be able to use my dye as camouflage but there is no point if you got a big red sign above your head.

I also disagree strongly with Marauder… I solo roam quite a bit and can cap a camp in under 4mins… one night last week, I was the only player on SFR for 2 hours preventing Deso from ticking 100% – done by jumping borderlands and capping random camps. There are often times I am the only person capping camps. I also give scout reports, kill other roamers I see capping camps, take out strays on zerg tails, hide inside keeps that are about to be taken and provide portals for quick retakes etc. etc. I play an important role for my server.

Yes, you contribute to the success of your server – but none of the above requires an invisible name tag. Invisible name tags are for players that want to instagibb unaware players and lack the skill to deal with retaliation.
I get that some people like the “ninja” feel of roaming but this game isn’t all about you. We have to see it from the other player’s perspective: you get insta-downed without even realizing what hit you, where is the fun in that? Nametags allow roamers to meet on equal levels and make fights fair (and give weaker players a chance to run from me). People who cannot deal with that might have more fun farming upleveled.

In what way would that benefit everyone? Roaming doesn’t really do much for your server, especially if you really just go for random 1v1 (without defending camps etc.). I also fail to see why it would benefit everyone if counterplay to scouting was made harder.

For 1v1, just go for obsidian, where people actually build for dueling and fights are enjoyable (what fun lies in farming pvt-zerglings?)

irk.2047:

using emotes to boast a win is rude and those who do spam, especially those who /laugh when they beat you should be reportable. It is bad sportsmanship, it is punishable in real life, it should be the same in game.

I don’t think so. I constantly /laugh at players when they use cheesy build to trounce upleveled/obviously inexperienced players and I stomp them .

I think they are starting to overhaul the thief’s class mechanic by adding the “community QQ system” – every thief skill inflicts a drawback on yourself (like the CC on SB 3): stealth will immobilize you for the whole duration, dodges knock you down and, of course, drawing weapons inflicts 30 secs of burning and 25 stacks of tourment, bleeding and confusion.

why does it bother you? and why do you give them the opportunity to mock you by whispering?

Red Dawn.4561:

i thought about that, but if you remove the revert button it loses its viability as an ambush asset, it would only be OP if used correctly, and since you can still be hit i dont see how it becomes OP with a revert button,
especially since you cant move while in stealth or in the air

a scouting potion should not have any offensive use imho. a perma-stealth skill that doesn’t kitten your char would be insanely op, especially on thieves and mesmers.
farm single players —> hide when too many people search for you —> wait till they go away —> repeat (and experience the “theif OP, nerf pl0x! threads here afterwards – no thanks)”.
i like the idea of making scouting a game concept but i don’t see roamers in need of more advantages.

Johje Holan.4607:

I can see where the confusion is. In fact now I’m confused.

A Mistforged Heroes Weapon costs 300 tickets.

Or it costs 1 Heroes Weapon (100 tickets) plus 1 Gift of Heros (200 tickets + 250 Badges) plus Elonian Wine (~1G) plus Crystalline Dust (~2G) = 300 tickets + ~3G + 250 Badges.

Doesn’t make sense. Why would anyone do the latter? Unless the tickets expire. Do they?

^this.

also, i think it would be fair to give the last place at least one weapon skin for endeavor and sportsmanship

had this a while ago on AM. spy/troll manned our golem army and logged out —> golem gone.

remove revert button, revert only if attacked by other player.

otherwise it would be to OP for roaming/trolling newbies

BlackDevil.9268:

And that’s an argument for not nerfing consume plasma because…?

It’s funny how the burden of proof is reversed when it comes to thieves nerfs.

What do you want to say?
Warrs are king of the ring, that’s what Anet wants them to be, deal with it.

/thread