Guild Wars 2

ANet should step in. This is wrong :/ mag is getting rolled, it’s not tanking. All our guilds are gone, and full guilds of jerks are chasing solo roamers without disgression. It’s disgusting. (Looking at you, CL and others)

Oh this is rich.

“Put me in, coach.”

Fuzzion.2504:

scerevisiae.1972:

Devildoc.6721:

4+ water and 4+ arcane are not at all mandatory

mandatory if you want to be good i meant. you can run 1/1/1/1/1 if you like, doesn’t disprove the point.

You are right about water @ 4. Arcana would say its 6 not 4.

Moreover given our boon duration nerfs from gear it has to be made up under arcana tree.

Biggest reason to take arcana is to get attunement cool down reduction.

4 is the most you need for it. Builds can be quite successful without EA.

We do represent the community. We are the vocal, voting percentage.

It needs to have a lower ICD, IMO.

Dear every ANet employee ever:

READ. THIS. THREAD.

That is all. I’d also like to see 1v1 arena. I feel like 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 could all be different game modes.

Please implement this… You’d make so much money.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Mbelch.9028:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Mbelch.9028:

This is just my personal feelings speaking, but all condi builds can just go into the trash. For all classes. This game would be better off without them

disagreed, the thief, warrior and ranger condi-spec are not trash.

Disagree all you want. I’m not saying they’re not effective. They’re annoying. Low skill floor, low skill cap and high frustration factor for others.

They’re just annoyances. Making conditions part of power builds and reworking the game to move away from condition damage is my personal vision for the game.

That’ll never happen. But I can dream.

I have highlighted why I disagree. Zerker thieves are more annoying than condi specced ones. Condis can be seen and countered a backstab cannot.
As for skill caps. condi warrior and condi ranger aren’t that easy.

If you think a backstab can’t be seen a mile away, you’ve just got to practice vs more thieves/play one yourself. I’m not being condescending there, I had to play for a while, but I finally learned that they’re super easy to predict.

Condis might be visible, but they’re unforgiving, misleading and to top it all off with a cherry, they typically pack a punch while their user is as tanky as any tank.

At least you can down a zerker thief in a few seconds, but it takes a real skillful person to stay alive more than a few minutes vs a P/D cheese thief.

Xillllix.3485:

The elementalist need a high dps elite or an elite that instantly recharge your attunements.

The current elites are not helping.

I think that has been tossed around the community as the perfect “active” for the signet skill.

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

fadeaway.2807:

Can anyone explain why this needs a nerf to somebody who doesn’t play much pvp?
The only eles I see are full zerker pve ones
Thanks

Celestial ele, celestial war, celestial engie all benefit from using most of the stats of the armor and make up for the lower power by might stacking.

The OP suggested whack-a-mole balance, but people like lettuce and neko are suggesting alter either might stacking or celestial amulet instead.

I only need to point out, just like grim reaper, that if before the patch they were “useless” then suddenly are OP, it’s because of the celestial armor everybody is putting on.

Simple as that. Nobody used it before, everybody uses it now. Eles received two effective buffs to the D/D build as well in that patch, but those were necessary to a UP weapon set. People are quick to forget how few elementalists played the game for several months.

Your last paragraph is basically saying that it is ok for d/d elem to be OP because it was Up… Should I remind you that they were beyond Op for a longer time (1 year ) before they get nerfed ? meh I don’t expect someone with barely over 150 games played to know much about pvp.

Hah. 150 serious TPvP games with teams preparing for the ToLs, but go ahead and judge it based on that. Also don’t bother considering my other experiences, especially given my hundreds of hours running the most successful dueling server. None of that really matters at all.

My last Graf infers d/d ele needs to fit into the meta somewhere, and if you consider the changes that happened, from vastly UP to just before the celestial “discovery”, the ele class was starting to fit into a balanced role.

I’ve focused my learning on ele. I know how every stat influences every skill, I know the hidden little secrets that most people don’t know about the weapon skills. I think after thousands of hours of learning the class, I’m more than qualified to speak to the situation of elementalists, especially when I am saying I’m a staunch supporter of bringing down celestial cancer cheese. But nerfing classes down because of celestial is only detrimental.

Look at it this way.

-If prepatch eles weren’t represented, there was an issue.
The solution was to buff ele, which they did with several skill buffs.

-If celestial eles are over represented, there’s an issue.
The solution is to do what will bring down celestial ele, but not ele as a whole.

Look at the rest of ele under other armor stats. They’re still underrepresented. If you nerf the weapons rather than the true issue, you’re not doing things right. You’re only kicking a dog while it’s down in the hopes that it doesn’t come back to bite you.

---

Celestial is the issue across the board. It seems the simple answer is making some of the defensive stats lower, or simply bringing it CLOSER in line to the total point pools of other amulets is a very simple, fair change.*

I figure this is all painfully obvious, but to people who don’t specialize in ele, I hope the description helps.

When my post only contains 2-3-4 sentences, it means “Please don’t bother having a discussion with me” I won’t even bother reading your post.

AKA — “When I can’t argue with strong logic I go home.”

No, more like, it’s not even worth it. You got your views, I got mine. Having an argument over opinion is a waste of time. Note: I did not shrare my opinion on if OP is right or not. I didn’t even share it.

Give it up, man. You can’t come into a discussion about eles, not offer anything constructive while actually criticizing an ele who knows the class.

You as well can hop back to your bridge.

Why do you come up so defensive? Your ton seems really pointed right now. Again, 126 games played overall is not enough to consider yourself to be good. Come back to Earth, now you’re just being deluted which is one more reason to not bother having a discussion with you. No wonder Phantaram didn’t bother to post back….

Do you even play elementalist? Can you do anything but post how many TPvP games people have played?

Come back when you can hold your own in a discussion let alone a duel.

Phant didn’t post back because what can you honestly post when you’re called out on terrible balance ideas by people who can clearly and concisely lay out why they’re bad.

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

fadeaway.2807:

Can anyone explain why this needs a nerf to somebody who doesn’t play much pvp?
The only eles I see are full zerker pve ones
Thanks

Celestial ele, celestial war, celestial engie all benefit from using most of the stats of the armor and make up for the lower power by might stacking.

The OP suggested whack-a-mole balance, but people like lettuce and neko are suggesting alter either might stacking or celestial amulet instead.

I only need to point out, just like grim reaper, that if before the patch they were “useless” then suddenly are OP, it’s because of the celestial armor everybody is putting on.

Simple as that. Nobody used it before, everybody uses it now. Eles received two effective buffs to the D/D build as well in that patch, but those were necessary to a UP weapon set. People are quick to forget how few elementalists played the game for several months.

Your last paragraph is basically saying that it is ok for d/d elem to be OP because it was Up… Should I remind you that they were beyond Op for a longer time (1 year ) before they get nerfed ? meh I don’t expect someone with barely over 150 games played to know much about pvp.

Hah. 150 serious TPvP games with teams preparing for the ToLs, but go ahead and judge it based on that. Also don’t bother considering my other experiences, especially given my hundreds of hours running the most successful dueling server. None of that really matters at all.

My last Graf infers d/d ele needs to fit into the meta somewhere, and if you consider the changes that happened, from vastly UP to just before the celestial “discovery”, the ele class was starting to fit into a balanced role.

I’ve focused my learning on ele. I know how every stat influences every skill, I know the hidden little secrets that most people don’t know about the weapon skills. I think after thousands of hours of learning the class, I’m more than qualified to speak to the situation of elementalists, especially when I am saying I’m a staunch supporter of bringing down celestial cancer cheese. But nerfing classes down because of celestial is only detrimental.

Look at it this way.

-If prepatch eles weren’t represented, there was an issue.
The solution was to buff ele, which they did with several skill buffs.

-If celestial eles are over represented, there’s an issue.
The solution is to do what will bring down celestial ele, but not ele as a whole.

Look at the rest of ele under other armor stats. They’re still underrepresented. If you nerf the weapons rather than the true issue, you’re not doing things right. You’re only kicking a dog while it’s down in the hopes that it doesn’t come back to bite you.

---

Celestial is the issue across the board. It seems the simple answer is making some of the defensive stats lower, or simply bringing it CLOSER in line to the total point pools of other amulets is a very simple, fair change.*

I figure this is all painfully obvious, but to people who don’t specialize in ele, I hope the description helps.

When my post only contains 2-3-4 sentences, it means “Please don’t bother having a discussion with me” I won’t even bother reading your post.

AKA — “When I can’t argue with strong logic I go home.”

No, more like, it’s not even worth it. You got your views, I got mine. Having an argument over opinion is a waste of time. Note: I did not shrare my opinion on if OP is right or not. I didn’t even share it.

Give it up, man. You can’t come into a discussion about eles, not offer anything constructive while actually criticizing an ele who knows the class.

You as well can hop back to your bridge.

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

fadeaway.2807:

Can anyone explain why this needs a nerf to somebody who doesn’t play much pvp?
The only eles I see are full zerker pve ones
Thanks

Celestial ele, celestial war, celestial engie all benefit from using most of the stats of the armor and make up for the lower power by might stacking.

The OP suggested whack-a-mole balance, but people like lettuce and neko are suggesting alter either might stacking or celestial amulet instead.

I only need to point out, just like grim reaper, that if before the patch they were “useless” then suddenly are OP, it’s because of the celestial armor everybody is putting on.

Simple as that. Nobody used it before, everybody uses it now. Eles received two effective buffs to the D/D build as well in that patch, but those were necessary to a UP weapon set. People are quick to forget how few elementalists played the game for several months.

Your last paragraph is basically saying that it is ok for d/d elem to be OP because it was Up… Should I remind you that they were beyond Op for a longer time (1 year ) before they get nerfed ? meh I don’t expect someone with barely over 150 games played to know much about pvp.

Hah. 150 serious TPvP games with teams preparing for the ToLs, but go ahead and judge it based on that. Also don’t bother considering my other experiences, especially given my hundreds of hours running the most successful dueling server. None of that really matters at all.

My last Graf infers d/d ele needs to fit into the meta somewhere, and if you consider the changes that happened, from vastly UP to just before the celestial “discovery”, the ele class was starting to fit into a balanced role.

I’ve focused my learning on ele. I know how every stat influences every skill, I know the hidden little secrets that most people don’t know about the weapon skills. I think after thousands of hours of learning the class, I’m more than qualified to speak to the situation of elementalists, especially when I am saying I’m a staunch supporter of bringing down celestial cancer cheese. But nerfing classes down because of celestial is only detrimental.

Look at it this way.

-If prepatch eles weren’t represented, there was an issue.
The solution was to buff ele, which they did with several skill buffs.

-If celestial eles are over represented, there’s an issue.
The solution is to do what will bring down celestial ele, but not ele as a whole.

Look at the rest of ele under other armor stats. They’re still underrepresented. If you nerf the weapons rather than the true issue, you’re not doing things right. You’re only kicking a dog while it’s down in the hopes that it doesn’t come back to bite you.

---

Celestial is the issue across the board. It seems the simple answer is making some of the defensive stats lower, or simply bringing it CLOSER in line to the total point pools of other amulets is a very simple, fair change.*

I figure this is all painfully obvious, but to people who don’t specialize in ele, I hope the description helps.

When my post only contains 2-3-4 sentences, it means “Please don’t bother having a discussion with me” I won’t even bother reading your post.

AKA — “When I can’t argue with strong logic I go home.”

nearlight.3064:

And I admit I was being dramatic when I said DD can rot. But yeah I’m biased towards my opinions, but that doesn’t mean my concerns are any less credible.

Simply yes. You’re biased, you hold a grudge, so your opinions aren’t valuable to me, or to anybody looking to objectively fix an issue.

Back to your bridge.

Poplolita.2638:

Mbelch.9028:

fadeaway.2807:

Can anyone explain why this needs a nerf to somebody who doesn’t play much pvp?
The only eles I see are full zerker pve ones
Thanks

Celestial ele, celestial war, celestial engie all benefit from using most of the stats of the armor and make up for the lower power by might stacking.

The OP suggested whack-a-mole balance, but people like lettuce and neko are suggesting alter either might stacking or celestial amulet instead.

I only need to point out, just like grim reaper, that if before the patch they were “useless” then suddenly are OP, it’s because of the celestial armor everybody is putting on.

Simple as that. Nobody used it before, everybody uses it now. Eles received two effective buffs to the D/D build as well in that patch, but those were necessary to a UP weapon set. People are quick to forget how few elementalists played the game for several months.

Your last paragraph is basically saying that it is ok for d/d elem to be OP because it was Up… Should I remind you that they were beyond Op for a longer time (1 year ) before they get nerfed ? meh I don’t expect someone with barely over 150 games played to know much about pvp.

Hah. 150 serious TPvP games with teams preparing for the ToLs, but go ahead and judge it based on that. Also don’t bother considering my other experiences, especially given my hundreds of hours running the most successful dueling server. None of that really matters at all.

My last Graf infers d/d ele needs to fit into the meta somewhere, and if you consider the changes that happened, from vastly UP to just before the celestial “discovery”, the ele class was starting to fit into a balanced role.

I’ve focused my learning on ele. I know how every stat influences every skill, I know the hidden little secrets that most people don’t know about the weapon skills. I think after thousands of hours of learning the class, I’m more than qualified to speak to the situation of elementalists, especially when I am saying I’m a staunch supporter of bringing down celestial cancer cheese. But nerfing classes down because of celestial is only detrimental.

Look at it this way.

-If prepatch eles weren’t represented, there was an issue.
The solution was to buff ele, which they did with several skill buffs.

-If celestial eles are over represented, there’s an issue.
The solution is to do what will bring down celestial ele, but not ele as a whole.

Look at the rest of ele under other armor stats. They’re still underrepresented. If you nerf the weapons rather than the true issue, you’re not doing things right. You’re only kicking a dog while it’s down in the hopes that it doesn’t come back to bite you.

Celestial is the issue across the board. It seems the simple answer is making some of the defensive stats lower, or simply bringing it CLOSER in line to the total point pools of other amulets is a very simple, fair change.*

I figure this is all painfully obvious, but to people who don’t specialize in ele, I hope the description helps.

fadeaway.2807:

Can anyone explain why this needs a nerf to somebody who doesn’t play much pvp?
The only eles I see are full zerker pve ones
Thanks

Celestial ele, celestial war, celestial engie all benefit from using most of the stats of the armor and make up for the lower power by might stacking.

The OP suggested whack-a-mole balance, but people like lettuce and neko are suggesting alter either might stacking or celestial amulet instead.

I only need to point out, just like grim reaper, that if before the patch they were “useless” then suddenly are OP, it’s because of the celestial armor everybody is putting on.

Simple as that. Nobody used it before, everybody uses it now. Eles received two effective buffs to the D/D build as well in that patch, but those were necessary to a UP weapon set. People are quick to forget how few elementalists played the game for several months.

nearlight.3064:

Let the D/D eles rot then, if its for the good of the metagame. All of these faceroll perma heal spam skills without thinking builds kitten me off. I can only play ranger for an hour at most before I get sick of it for similar reasons. Playing a D/D ele really isn’t fun for me, nor is it satisfying to fight against unless I can steamroll it on condition necro. I just hate that those other options are forgone to have mobile tanky boon monkeys with oodles of healing, on almost every single team.

And boom, you just lost every shred of respectability here lol.

You hate it, it’s too “hard” to fight, ele is too difficult for you to play, so let it rot. People like you are why I have to post on the forum. Because all too often I see people who don’t know left from right agreeing to detrimental ideas.

Go back and comment on things you understand like condi-spam necro.

In my opinion, Earth 1 should be a bit longer.

I’d also like for Earth 3 on dagger to be a bit longer, or at least bug fixed.

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Kraljevo.2801:

The lightning rod trait is gonna be fun to play with…

Place a static field on a zerg without stability and see 20 lightning strikes!

#pikachuconfirmed

What?
Lightning rod you say?

Haha! This game kind of works like pokemon, and not in the good ways at times.

Neko.9021:

I don’t really regard the ability of players to duel in 1v1 situations to be indicative of their skill, given that everything in the game (PvE, WvW, SPvP) is about your ability to team-fight well. If we accepted that 1v1 capability shows how good of a player you are, then PU Mesmers must be the best players in this game :P

The ability to understand 1v1 is a powerful thing. Not just doing it with overpowered builds, but by doing it with a variety. I’ve been making ele dueling a reality since most eles abandoned their daggers in the dark ages after the final RTL nerf.

I will also say that having watched and been subjected to thousands of duels, I’ve seen just about every trait used and a ton of builds fleshed out. I do understand the mechanics and parameters of this game super well, and I voice what I think will be good for the health of the overall game.

Lifestealer.4910:

Mbelch.9028:

Poplolita.2638:

To the poster above, and to everybody else who thinks like him, I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but action speaks louder than words and even louder when it’s from MISTER NOBODY.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-roster-for-the-guild-wars-2-international-all-stars-tournament/

So telling him he’s wrong because YOU think he sucks… is really sad.

Who said they think he sucks? You are fanboying it up right now.

He could be the best PvPer in the game, but that gives him no more credibility than I to speak on balance, and being engrossed in SPvP gives him less credibility to speak than someone who spends equal time in all parts of the game.

I am saying based on his suggestions, he seems out of touch or personally pushing an agenda. You may stop defending him now, he has a keyboard.

Are you seriously telling me that your opinion which for all we know can be a pve heroes point of view holds the same weight as a player that consistently plays at the highest level of pvp who also happen to main said class of the discussion?..and to say someone like him is out of touch when he knows ALOT more than you and i do would usually be regarded as offensive. Thats not to say you can’t voice your opinion but don’t expect everyone to value it as much and to tell us that we should.

Not to mention it isn’t just him that thinks way, many other top players or just pvpers in general shares the same opinion on that D/D ele and current warrior build whether hambow or axebow is too strong. If you look at the current meta, dagger ele build rivals any of the top tier warrior builds and we all know warrior is about to get nerfed and for good reasons, what makes you think ele will not just shoot up to S tier if they aren’t nerfed?

I’m honestly telling you I don’t care how you regard my own opinions. I know when I say I’m speaking objectively, I am writing what is best for the balance of the game from my own point of view — but I’m doing it for the health of ele and the game.

I’m honestly telling you I play all facets of the game. I’ve played high level PvP, I’m a top tier dueler, I’m a roamer with good success. I’ve played every dungeon once (just to say I have, I disdain PvE).

If you read my posts, you’ll see I am in fact saying the “meta” builds are overpowered. I’m suggesting your idol’s views are out of line with what is healthy for the class.

Phant was apparently quoted saying he dislikes D/D a while back, so he’s lost all credibility on the matter.

I’ve played Ele as long as anybody, I’ve rolled every class to learn them and bring that skill back to ele. Take or don’t take my views on balance, but rest assured they’re at least objective when I say they are.

My biased view is that all condition builds need to be done away with and the condition damage/duration stats need to be done away with, conditions need to be built into power builds to make a more complex fight. But I don’t actually ask for that to happen. Ever.

Poplolita.2638:

To the poster above, and to everybody else who thinks like him, I’m sorry to burst your bubble, but action speaks louder than words and even louder when it’s from MISTER NOBODY.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/introducing-the-roster-for-the-guild-wars-2-international-all-stars-tournament/

So telling him he’s wrong because YOU think he sucks… is really sad.

Who said they think he sucks? You are fanboying it up right now.

He could be the best PvPer in the game, but that gives him no more credibility than I to speak on balance, and being engrossed in SPvP gives him less credibility to speak than someone who spends equal time in all parts of the game.

I am saying based on his suggestions, he seems out of touch or personally pushing an agenda. You may stop defending him now, he has a keyboard.

Lettuce.2945:

nearlight.3064:

Lettuce.2945:

OP is a bit extreme with suggestions. You want to nerf profession skills just because it attunes well with the celestial amulet? Take away the celestial amulet, and those skills are not as effective. Don’t be stupid and even suggest that. It’ll nerf this class back into a point where people laugh at you for even playing one. Seriously, think before you speak.

Phantaram is one of the best Elementalists on the gw2 pvp scene. I think he knows more about what he’s talking about than you do.

Just because he streams and I don’t doesn’t mean he knows more. facepalms I’ve seen better eles, don’t get it twisted. His suggestions really does indicate that he doesn’t know the full extent of what he’s suggesting. And your supporting it indicates that you don’t as well. I didn’t disagree that it does need some kind of nerfing, but his suggestion would nerf it so hard, we would be ridiculed for playing an ele. I noticed you also pulled the same thing in the mesmer thread by referring to Helseth. Seems like twitch players = pro players, anyone else who doesn’t stream is invalid and there’s no better player out there. That’s your logic. Nice one there. facepalms

So tone down celestial amulet and work on battle sigil might stacking, and should balance ele. But I still think it’s a little stupid to rework a sigil just for one profession. Cele amulet on the other hand is just generally OP across various professions like warriors, eles, engis, spirit rangers, etc.

Several people in this thread have the gist of it. Good show here too, mate.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Mbelch.9028:

This is just my personal feelings speaking, but all condi builds can just go into the trash. For all classes. This game would be better off without them

disagreed, the thief, warrior and ranger condi-spec are not trash.

Disagree all you want. I’m not saying they’re not effective. They’re annoying. Low skill floor, low skill cap and high frustration factor for others.

They’re just annoyances. Making conditions part of power builds and reworking the game to move away from condition damage is my personal vision for the game.

That’ll never happen. But I can dream.

emikochan.8504:

I think it’d be cool if the slot the skill was placed in changed it’s cooldown/power, first slot being quicker/weaker and last slot having a big % extra cooldown/effect.

Then any skill could be elite ^^

That’s actually a very unique idea. It’ll never be implemented but it could be so cool for game builds.

Neko.9021:

They didn’t nerf Vapor Form. It’s always been affected by unblockable CC (such as Line of Warding, Unsteady Ground, Static Cage). They simply updated its visual effect so that it’s more apparent that Vapor Form and Mist Form are two different skills (since Mist Form is NOT affected by unblockable CC).

Yeah I realize this and I’m glad it’s not getting any more nerfs. I just wish it could not go thru portals.

Like I said elsewhere, I’d like to see a signet elite. I think all of our elites have a place to be used.

I’ll still use tornado in SPvP matches where my role calls for it.

I’ll still use FGS/Leopard form as an escape in 1vX roaming.

I’ll still use glyph/human forms in duels vs people. I’m actually pretty excited about the glyph control.

Carighan.6758:

Theoretically, yes.
The devs have three things they need to balance:

• sPvP, which is mostly balance of power coupled with a strong focus on positioning and CC availability due to the domination-style maps.
• WvW, which is about balancing scaling and balancing contribution (or “wantedness”).
• PvE, which is balancing power and contribution, but less so than the other modes. However, large focus on balancing all types of utility to avoid 1-class-exploits and certain mechanics breaking on certain skills.

I’m highly doubtful even those three can be balanced at the same time, too much about them is mutually exclusive with each other. And while yes in theory I could see more modes like 1v1 roaming and GvG be balanced, with those three actually in-game modes being so difficult to balance, coupled with how glacial the pace of balance changes is, I doubt we’ll ever see anything being done about the player-invented formats.

Or in short: meh.

Why are LS patches biweekly, not balance patches? -.-
[/quote]

You only responded to part of what I said

I actually would argue that they could abandon the SPvP/WvW balance and just put their time into specifically buffing and nerfing so that they’re creating a balanced 5v5, 20v20(just an ex.) and 1v1 scene.

If you’ve balanced all those then there’s no need to even care which facet of the game you’re balancing for. Just give everything a strength and a weakness.

PvE… Just hit 1 and keep your heal skill in mind. Lol

Grimreaper.5370:

I’d like to mention a few things some people may have forgotten about the elementalist, I’ll make these points blunt:

-Elementalist was very weak in Spvp before the improved celestial amulet was added

-Celestial got buffed and gave the elementalist the defensive sustain you’re used to seeing today

-No one complained about celestial before the buff to stats (but rather laughed at the idea of using this stat combo!)

-Str runes + celestial amulet is the reason you see good damage come from a great bunker

One more thing I’d like to throw out there; I find the zerker amulet makes some fights easier than celestial. For example, when I fight a well played shatter mesmer, I have much better luck with zerkers because I don’t get many opportunities to land burst on them, so I need to finish them off quickly before they drop me like a fly.

The point I’m trying to make is celestial isn’t always the best choice… Although it sure is pretty kitten forgiving with the great healing it provides an elementalist, on the contrary some builds have no problem fighting a celestial bunker ele. Is the answer to our problems truly to remove the celestial amulet? I don’t think so. I would rather see the some of the defensive stats celestial provides removed and then placed into offensive stats.

At least you’re on my wavelength. Thanks for typing it better than I have the patience to.

Poplolita.2638:

Lifestealer.4910:

I am really surprised at the lack of ele white knights coming here to defend this spec. When people claim that warrior or thief is OP, its always met with strong resistance from fanboys who attacks and ask people to l2p and claiming that their class is fine and balanced.

Yea, plus, Phantaram is actually one of the best elem in NA.

To both of you.. One problem with the “PvP heroes” is they don’t know balance as well as everybody thinks and many people just take their word as law. I don’t actually know phant, as I don’t watch live streams, and I haven’t seen him dueling/anything like that.

Just basing my knowledge of balance and the ele class, his suggestions weren’t indicative of what you’re saying.

oZii.2864:

I haven’t played in about 2 months or so. Looked at video today thought it was a good overall balanced update. Like the blinding ashes change since going 6 fire makes you squishy this gives you defense when outnumbered. Like the lightning rod change. FGS is better with imo with a real attack on rush not situational. Rush was going to get changed anyway. Like the elemental change to get a good attack on demand. I like the elemental contingency change also.

This is a WvW perspective.

Hey glad to hear you’re on board. Also glad to hear from you.

Devildoc.6721:

Dirame.8521:

Mbelch.9028:

One thing I did miss was the Glyph of elemental storm seems to be overpowered now.

• This glyph which creates a storm in a location can stack 25 stacks of vulnerability now for each hit on a target that stands inside it.
• Each different storm gets a different condition, water just seems the most overpowered.

Yeah, think nuking some zergs from above with staff with all the + % dmg traits taken.

And then get destroyed by retal? Also Conjure Weapons already do 2 of the 4 things that the Glyph of Storms does.

Devildoc.6721:

2 out of 3 elites neutered. FGS might still be worthwhile for whirl and firestorm., and for the fact that the other 2 elites are really bad, Glyph is only useful for soloing and spawning a tank, Tornado was only useful for upping meteor damage.

Will anyone use tornado after the change? Ever? I really can’t see myself doing it. Maybe on the way to defending or capping a Lord’s room it can push people out so it isn’t challenged. But that’s it.

It could possibly be used for shooting out bursts of lightning because those hit for a good amount of damage. Add sigil of air, fire and the new and improved Lightning Rod and you’ve got yourself a nice little nukage form.

You can do so much more damage not using tornado though, tornado lightning bolts do at tops 4k or so, and that’s once every 3s. Lava font can do more than that and it pulses every 1s and doesn’t make you defenseless while you’re using it.

I suppose popping armor of earth before entering tornado might allow a nice nuke on a Zerg, but I think the ICD should be looked at for sure.

zaxon.6819:

yes better duel servers are allowed.. but for the most part they dont let cancer duel. no pu turret engies minion mancer blah blah.

In mine we let people choose what they dueled. If someone thinks they can beat the cheese D/P thief/terrormancer/PU Mesmer, let them try on their own dime.

I saw some success, some failure with this free choice method, but I learned a great deal about game balance watching so many different builds fight each other.

Also yes, they are fine. People aren’t being swindled out of money, they’re knowingly surrendering their money with a theoretical 50/50 shot of getting 90% of a pot of gold.

Aberrant.6749:

Sagat.3285:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Seems very poorly thought out in my opinion, to suggest nerfing an entire amulet for one single build on one single profession.

^ that makes more sense than anything I have seen in this thread.

Edit: Ele is a celestial class it make perfect sense celestial works best on them.

It’s too strong on eng as well… basically the classes that can make use of all the stats it’s too strong on. You can go balth with eng and not stack might and it’s still brutal. That means the ammy itself gives too many stats and it’s not related to might stacking.

Indeed. Although when I spoke I meant to write runes of Hoelbrak, not Balth.

Phantaram.1265:

Mbelch.9028:

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

I wasn’t off base anywhere, I didn’t actually suggest to change the ele in any specific way. I gave the options possible. One of them was the celestial amulet combined with the battle sigil and certain runes.

I give options because Anet clearly has never, and possibly never will be, on the same page as me or a lot of the other player base.

I’m on the exact same page as you and if I were in charge of balance I would do it. but I’m not so guess what I’m appealing to what arena net is trying to do. Because I’ve seen countless people try spamming forums about where they think the game should be taken non stop and it’s just a waste of breath.

So I just give options and leave it at that. People don’t abuse macros or a bug it’s simply using stow weapon to heal more with signet of restoration. You can do it with any weapon set on ele it just becomes the most powerful on dagger.

You’re making your post very personal against me and it’s really stupid, just stop.

My post isn’t personal, I don’t even know you. I do take it seriously when anybody suggests nerfing a profession’s skills JUST based on a recently changed amulet.

It’s the obvious, like you said, and logical solution to just revert the celestial amulet or shave it to be in line.

You can’t say you weren’t suggesting these changes, as if you wrote them, you’re writing them as a possibility you might endorse. I think that’s off base, as I think you also realize some of those ideas are in another universe.

—

To the person who wrote to me saying why nerf an amulet based on one profession/one build…. Several classes utilize this amulet overly well, and those that don’t won’t be affected by a change to celestial. Engineer, warrior, ele, Mesmer and guardian make great or more than great use of this amulet. There’s a host of builds just based off this, and it’s obviously a point of contention in the community. It deserves a second look given the nerf to crit dmg.

—

Blackbeard, that was a case of mistaken identity, I’ll PM you, but I still disagree with what you’re saying.

They sure as kitten better not nerf Snow Leopard. I will be sad. But it does grant stealth to classes who shouldn’t have it.

Nabuko Darayon.9645:

Mbelch.9028:

I use Norn elite. Kitten the others.

Norn getting nerfed as well.

How and when.

Xillllix.3485:

Seriously, who will even use FGS for anything else than running faster since it does less damage than any good rotation? What the hell sort of balancing is that?

An elite like FGS, on a class as squishy as an Ele and lasting for a set number of charge should do as much damage as a berserker warrior wielding a Great sword and having twice more health.

Someone is going to have to eventually accept that the destiny of the FGS is not to be ran up against a wall.

I rarely used it as such. It’s just less fun. Neat to see the numbers/get quick downs in those specialized situations, but that’s just it. I don’t keep it on my bar for specialized situations.. It’s more for running or an aoe burst.

You honestly won’t miss the small amount of times you used this in the coming future. Promise.

I’ve only read the first post, but that’s all I need to see right now..

Phant you’re really off base. Why would you ever suggest nerfing a class based on available armor? You need to nerf the armor.

Was D/D overpowered before celestial hit the scene? Honestly ask yourself that. No. It wasn’t.

Celestial is and was the issue. Celestial needs nerfing across the board or removed in PvP. Simple.

Strength runes need the same. So do balth runes.

It is upsetting when people suggest nerfing your class based on one set of armor which makes it overpowered. That’s an obvious miscarriage of balance, and I hope others realize that.

So one last thing, if people are abusing macros to heal more, that’s obviously a bug that needs fixed. Don’t put it in your vendetta for more nerfs.

Also- just a little note, the game supports 1vX, the X just needs to be less knowledgable than you. I know I do 2v5+ on a daily basis. And as an ele I do 1v3 at the most, but 1v4 is a bit hard.

Carighan.6758:

Mbelch.9028:

I know you’re not a small-man player, but condition builds rule the day in solo and many times in 1vX situations.

True, but the game doesn’t support 1-versus combat. Which makes sense, given the genre. Yes it can happen, but it’s a situation you absolutely want to avoid if anyhow possible.

Coupled with just how slow PU is in killing, and its problems with on-point combat (the only situation where you can really be forced into 1vX combat and don’t want to avoid it), and I really don’t see the spec as strong.
Any situation where it could be useful you don’t want to fight 1v1. A very large part of the PvP players still wants to, and that’s why PU (or rather, Blackwater) can be so strong, as it punishes 1v1-centric setups.

Yeah what you’re saying is super true about PvP. Good points.

But 1v1 dueling is a very real scene in GW2. There’s literally hundreds of people I know who do it. I could honestly list them. There’s probably as many as there are serious NA PvPers. And to be quite honest, more money has been won in 1v1 tourines/duels than ever will be won in competitive PvP (Okay minus the 50,000 rewards. Crazy, right?!)

I personally facilitated a betting server and in less than 48 hours I averaged turning over 10,000 gold (winnings). That was for every 48 hours, not just a peak.

I’m just making the point that there are ways to buff Zerg specs, PvP specs and not buff already overpowered 1v1 specs.

Wouldn’t you agree? I just don’t think they’re putting the work into investigating and fleshing it out with players.

GoodWithGravy.8019:

Mbelch.9028:

-I don’t know how our mobility was cut by 50%, the max speed buff is +33% and eles aren’t moving -17% slower than other classes currently, so I call BS.

Ride the lightning.

Yeah we need to work on RTL. Someone start a petition in balance.

Hekmatyar.8725:

Mbelch.9028:

Hekmatyar.8725:

No real issues adressed with some heavy handed nerfs on the side.

Laughable.

Heavy handed nerfs? Or making things more balanced? I’m sorry you can’t Meteornado and 1 hit noobs any longer. You’ll live.

Try to be semi objective for the sake of the game overall.

Please, I don’t pve nor zvz, so try not to be condescending. Neither the tornado or the FGS nerfs could mean less to me.

That aside, the nerf to the trail stacking is heavy handed, and will effect unrelated skills because of what is our usual sloppy chopping. The burning speed + LF is one od the few decent burst combos that required timing to execute, and a good chunk of its damage is now lost, meh.

ZvZ is the only situation Meteornado works.

I’m not being condescending. I’m being straight forward. You’ll live, you’ll keep playing ele, your builds won’t change or get worse because of this patch. That’s a success in my book, and if it isn’t in yours, you’re taking for granted the terrible nature of patches in the past.

Fiery greatsword trail isn’t that large of a nerf. If your build in WvW or PvP relied on it then it was probably a poor build. I do feel for the PvE eles, though.

There’s no such thing as an official game mode. Freaking trolls thinking they have reasoning for illogic. Just shows you’re as crazy as they are.

1v1 is AS legitimate as zerging and all other game forms.

PvP isn’t the only thing that exists.

Also, they weren’t aiming to buff PU. They were aiming to buff shatter. It just isn’t the right set of buffs.

0/10. This is an awfully wrong and presumptuous post.

Carighan.6758:

Lifestealer.4910:

Mesmer needs help, i get it but buffing this cancerous condi build that they have?

Eh, right now every somewhat useful Mesmer plays a variant of power setups. I reckon their data will even show that Scepter goes virtually unused as a weapon.

Why do you think they’d buffing condition setups? Just for the lulz?
Probably because if you get off your high horse of as character built to be vulnerable to conditions but not to power attacks, you’ll realize that condition builds are really weak.

I know you’re not a small-man player, but condition builds rule the day in solo and many times in 1vX situations.

They’re not weak by any stretch of the imagination. And for ANet to achieve any semblance of balance, yes balancing for 1v1 is a concern.

I use Norn elite. Kitten the others.

Dirame.8521:

Mbelch.9028:

One thing I did miss was the Glyph of elemental storm seems to be overpowered now.

• This glyph which creates a storm in a location can stack 25 stacks of vulnerability now for each hit on a target that stands inside it.
• Each different storm gets a different condition, water just seems the most overpowered.

Yeah, think nuking some zergs from above with staff with all the + % dmg traits taken.

And then get destroyed by retal? Also Conjure Weapons already do 2 of the 4 things that the Glyph of Storms does.

Devildoc.6721:

2 out of 3 elites neutered. FGS might still be worthwhile for whirl and firestorm., and for the fact that the other 2 elites are really bad, Glyph is only useful for soloing and spawning a tank, Tornado was only useful for upping meteor damage.

Will anyone use tornado after the change? Ever? I really can’t see myself doing it. Maybe on the way to defending or capping a Lord’s room it can push people out so it isn’t challenged. But that’s it.

It could possibly be used for shooting out bursts of lightning because those hit for a good amount of damage. Add sigil of air, fire and the new and improved Lightning Rod and you’ve got yourself a nice little nukage form.

If you’re worried about retal, go home. It’s a prevalent threat in a Zerg.

Eles need a signet elite IMO. I hate passive crap but I think these changes open us up to some new skills.

Tornado and FGS trail needed some changes.

Solo.9027:

Mbelch.9028:

-I don’t know how our mobility was cut by 50%, the max speed buff is +33% and eles aren’t moving -17% slower than other classes currently, so I call BS.

The fury/swiftness from zephyr’s boon was halved a while back.

As to the changes, i’m glad ascended gear is account bound is all I can say. I will probably finally make a mesmer with this years birthday gift.

Thanks for clarifying. I can’t speak to that as I don’t even recall it.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Glyph of storm does not stack 25 vul per hit. On zerg, gvg, pve and in spvp, this utility will be very useful.

I agree with nearlight. the continuous buff to low risk high reward builds is absurd. There will definitely be a lot of forum rage against the torment stacking mesmer meta coming lol. Also, look out for more bunker eles with that water element elite and a signet bunker condition ele. Yet once again scepter and focus are left in the dark unless all the buffs were not covered on the ready up episodes. In short bunker and condition builds are still meta.

@Celestina – I also agree with you. In terms of pve and wvw zerging to take away something that worked so well most be heartbreaking for players that find it hard to adapt to changes.

Yeah it definitely doesn’t stack to 25 per hit it hits 2 stacks per hit. I hope what I wrote didn’t come off that way.

I’m also not sure if you are in line or not with the torment rage, but I’m a member of the torment rage group.

I can’t believe they want more condis on auto attacks. It is ridiculous to me. And torment was the worst addition to the game in my opinion.

Carighan.6758:

Mbelch.9028:

So you and 30 others hunted down a team of 5 roamers. Feel successful? That’s not to mention how pointless WvW objectives are.. So you capped the map. What do you receive? Victory, glory and loot? No. Not a thing.

Well, what do you receive in sPvP? The map reloads to undo everything you’ve done, and every once in a while you get one of the worst type of achievements (the automatic ones, as per this Extra Credits episode).

I play WvW for the zerg PvP gameplay.
Just as you – hopefully – play sPvP for the smallscale PvP gameplay. If not, I got to wonder why you’d do it in the first place, since there’s no other return on time invested to either.

And yes, I like the large-group roaming and PvPing and capping castles and at times (that’s the part they really got to expand on) having some prolonged tidal siege defence or offence.
It’s specifically why I came to GW2, DAoC’s RvR is the most sensible implementation of “MMORPG PvP” I’ve seen so far. It actually feels a little (teensy) bit more like a fight in a RPG. Which, well, is what the genre would make you expect.

Do I feel good about running down 5 in a group of 30? Well, not specifically good. But I’d feel bad if I had fought them 5v5 instead, even if we won after a pitched battle. Why fight to lose? Why not fight to win? It’s nice that we won, was a good adrenaline rush, and yet tactically it was anything but a sound idea.

As you can probably guess though, I’m a strategy, RPG and puzzle player at heart. Not someone hailing from action games, eSports shooters or Starcraft-like RTS or even MOBAs.
I don’t play PvP for the exercise in personal reflexes, play ability or the adrenaline.
I play it to test my planning and to try outsmart the other side. Ideally every battle is inherently unfair for the others, despite them having in total the same amount of people we do. That’s when I did well.

This is all well and good. But that style of play — while allowed — is completely poor game implementation and poor strategy. (Hunting down small numbers with multiple people)

So you’re devoting way more resources to them than they are worth just for the satisfaction of saying you killed them, but in all reality, they won because they distracted you from larger objectives for that amount of time.

There should also be limits to how many people can run around (poor game implementation) and be faster than a single person. Consider history. How different would history be if an army of 50,000 was faster than a single scout? It shouldn’t be this way, and ANet really needs to take steps to making it more realistic.

I come from both worlds. I love competitive PvP where I am stressed for my reactions, killing more people than we have and proving my skill in combat. But I also love strategy. I love risk, civ, ect.

I just wish more people played the game to a better standard, not just to what is most efficient.

We need less conditions on autos, not more. And we obviously need to do away with torment. One of the worst additions to the game.

This set of Mesmer changes is aimed at shatter Mesmers, but is going to heavily buff the zerk/pu/pu condi Mesmers too.

Consider that before officially enacting these.