Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

Mbelch.9028:

Daecollo.9578:

Mbelch.9028:

Daecollo.9578:

They buffed underused specs, the specs your having trouble against did not get buffed at all. They are buffing underused things to make them better.

Elementalist is hard to balance because its so complex.

You need traits that well… specialize in 1-2 attunements, but have amazing traits like this!

Drastically Improves the Fire Attunement, completely locks out Air.
Drastically Improves the Water Attunement, completely locks out Earth.
Drastically Improves the Air Attunement, completely locks out Fire.
Drastically Improves the Earth Attunement, completely locks out Water.

Earth should be focused on Condition Damage/Reducing Damage. (Bleeding Damage/Confusion Damage/Protection.)

Water should be focused on Power Damage/Healing. (Vulnerability/Weaknesss/Power Damage/Healing.)

---

Fire should be Condition Damage/Condition Removal and Control. (Burning, Power, Condition Control. (Remove conditions/cure for each one removed.).

Air Should be Burst/Critical Damage/Daze and Crowd Control.

This way you can have 1 offensive/1 defensive option.

I’m sorry that I very seriously disagree with much of what you’re saying.

Warrior spec is directly getting a buff, necro skills at are used in the condi spec, MM spec are getting buffed, thieves (condi thieves are extremely hard to beat as Ele) and we have no condition removal.

Yes, we can remove 3 with one skill, one per cantrip, one per dodge roll and one per dagger skill 5 in water. That’s simply not enough when:

Each class can now lay 5 conditions every ten seconds and our booms are easily corrupted or stolen.

Every current “OP spec” is a hard counter to elementalists outside of DP thieves, but what DP thief is actually taken seriously.

I like the skills on Elementalist, I even agree with Jon Sharp when he said they’re ok as a whole, but he said in a caveat, they’re ok ONCE conditions are shaved down.

I disagree that limiting our spec switches is a fix to anything. If you use the attunements to their fullest extent, you can do extremely well.

Also, I think you didn’t understand my post. I’m not asking for a direct buff to elementalists (outside of restoring some of our nerfed abilities) I’m asking for nerfs to several incredibly skilless builds. They instead are getting ignored or buffed.

Also keep in mind that I’m only talking about WvW, as that was the last bastion for seeing a viable elementalist. (We determine our stat output, which allows us sustainability)

Let me fill you in on what I know.

The Warrior you dislike is 0/10/30/0/30. That is the Stun spec, if you put 0/0/0/30/0 into that to increase my healing, You lose out on either 0/0/30/0/0 or 0/0/0/0/30.

That completely ruins the spec. You can’t do what you could do anymore. Just because of the traits. Warriors of this type will not be getting healed more. This just opened up a new kind of play-style.

Now, the Warrior is also getting nerfed, with Sigil or Para.

What hurts the Elementalist more then anything, is Burst Condition Damage, which is getting shaved down a lot.

---

You can’t have cake and eat it too, when you ask for buffs you have to give up something, and elementalist is one of the most complicated classes in the game to play. So if you want buffs, its going to come at a price, the class will be easier to play.

While I appreciate the comments, the insight into warrior, I want you to know I’m not asking for elementalist buffs at all.

I do want you to clarify on how you think condition burst is getting shaved down, as that’s what would make elementalist viable again, but I see no indication that it is.

Also, with the warrior build, I know it is tough, but mixed builds are possible.

I’m a very good elementalist thanks to learning from of the best Eles in game. I am not disillusioned about the potential of elementalist, or how good it is right now. But if they don’t fix the meta, it is all pointless.

We have a heal skill that can be so good for combating conditions, but it is so easily interrupted it isn’t funny. And unlike normal skills, it doesn’t get a 2 second reset, it goes through its full cool down even if you reaped no benefits. It should have a tiered cool down based on when it is interrupted.

They are making it so only one player can stack a certain amount a certain amount of times so if your getting hit hard by several players with stacks of conditions only one will be viable until it goes away.

That’s not a big deal for anything minus larger team fights. Condition damage needs to be shaved down. But it isn’t getting that hit.

That’s a slight nerf, nothing that even impacts small teams roamers/duelers that look to WvW as the game mode of choice.

Daecollo.9578:

Mbelch.9028:

Daecollo.9578:

They buffed underused specs, the specs your having trouble against did not get buffed at all. They are buffing underused things to make them better.

Elementalist is hard to balance because its so complex.

You need traits that well… specialize in 1-2 attunements, but have amazing traits like this!

Drastically Improves the Fire Attunement, completely locks out Air.
Drastically Improves the Water Attunement, completely locks out Earth.
Drastically Improves the Air Attunement, completely locks out Fire.
Drastically Improves the Earth Attunement, completely locks out Water.

Earth should be focused on Condition Damage/Reducing Damage. (Bleeding Damage/Confusion Damage/Protection.)

Water should be focused on Power Damage/Healing. (Vulnerability/Weaknesss/Power Damage/Healing.)

---

Fire should be Condition Damage/Condition Removal and Control. (Burning, Power, Condition Control. (Remove conditions/cure for each one removed.).

Air Should be Burst/Critical Damage/Daze and Crowd Control.

This way you can have 1 offensive/1 defensive option.

I’m sorry that I very seriously disagree with much of what you’re saying.

Warrior spec is directly getting a buff, necro skills at are used in the condi spec, MM spec are getting buffed, thieves (condi thieves are extremely hard to beat as Ele) and we have no condition removal.

Yes, we can remove 3 with one skill, one per cantrip, one per dodge roll and one per dagger skill 5 in water. That’s simply not enough when:

Each class can now lay 5 conditions every ten seconds and our booms are easily corrupted or stolen.

Every current “OP spec” is a hard counter to elementalists outside of DP thieves, but what DP thief is actually taken seriously.

I like the skills on Elementalist, I even agree with Jon Sharp when he said they’re ok as a whole, but he said in a caveat, they’re ok ONCE conditions are shaved down.

I disagree that limiting our spec switches is a fix to anything. If you use the attunements to their fullest extent, you can do extremely well.

Also, I think you didn’t understand my post. I’m not asking for a direct buff to elementalists (outside of restoring some of our nerfed abilities) I’m asking for nerfs to several incredibly skilless builds. They instead are getting ignored or buffed.

Also keep in mind that I’m only talking about WvW, as that was the last bastion for seeing a viable elementalist. (We determine our stat output, which allows us sustainability)

Let me fill you in on what I know.

The Warrior you dislike is 0/10/30/0/30. That is the Stun spec, if you put 0/0/0/30/0 into that to increase my healing, You lose out on either 0/0/30/0/0 or 0/0/0/0/30.

That completely ruins the spec. You can’t do what you could do anymore. Just because of the traits. Warriors of this type will not be getting healed more. This just opened up a new kind of play-style.

Now, the Warrior is also getting nerfed, with Sigil or Para.

What hurts the Elementalist more then anything, is Burst Condition Damage, which is getting shaved down a lot.

---

You can’t have cake and eat it too, when you ask for buffs you have to give up something, and elementalist is one of the most complicated classes in the game to play. So if you want buffs, its going to come at a price, the class will be easier to play.

While I appreciate the comments, the insight into warrior, I want you to know I’m not asking for elementalist buffs at all.

I do want you to clarify on how you think condition burst is getting shaved down, as that’s what would make elementalist viable again, but I see no indication that it is.

Also, with the warrior build, I know it is tough, but mixed builds are possible.

I’m a very good elementalist thanks to learning from of the best Eles in game. I am not disillusioned about the potential of elementalist, or how good it is right now. But if they don’t fix the meta, it is all pointless.

We have a heal skill that can be so good for combating conditions, but it is so easily interrupted it isn’t funny. And unlike normal skills, it doesn’t get a 2 second reset, it goes through its full cool down even if you reaped no benefits. It should have a tiered cool down based on when it is interrupted.

Daecollo.9578:

They buffed underused specs, the specs your having trouble against did not get buffed at all. They are buffing underused things to make them better.

Elementalist is hard to balance because its so complex.

You need traits that well… specialize in 1-2 attunements, but have amazing traits like this!

Drastically Improves the Fire Attunement, completely locks out Air.
Drastically Improves the Water Attunement, completely locks out Earth.
Drastically Improves the Air Attunement, completely locks out Fire.
Drastically Improves the Earth Attunement, completely locks out Water.

Earth should be focused on Condition Damage/Reducing Damage. (Bleeding Damage/Confusion Damage/Protection.)

Water should be focused on Power Damage/Healing. (Vulnerability/Weaknesss/Power Damage/Healing.)

---

Fire should be Condition Damage/Condition Removal and Control. (Burning, Power, Condition Control. (Remove conditions/cure for each one removed.).

Air Should be Burst/Critical Damage/Daze and Crowd Control.

This way you can have 1 offensive/1 defensive option.

I’m sorry that I very seriously disagree with much of what you’re saying.

Warrior spec is directly getting a buff, necro skills at are used in the condi spec, MM spec are getting buffed, thieves (condi thieves are extremely hard to beat as Ele) and we have no condition removal.

Yes, we can remove 3 with one skill, one per cantrip, one per dodge roll and one per dagger skill 5 in water. That’s simply not enough when:

Each class can now lay 5 conditions every ten seconds and our booms are easily corrupted or stolen.

Every current “OP spec” is a hard counter to elementalists outside of DP thieves, but what DP thief is actually taken seriously.

I like the skills on Elementalist, I even agree with Jon Sharp when he said they’re ok as a whole, but he said in a caveat, they’re ok ONCE conditions are shaved down.

I disagree that limiting our spec switches is a fix to anything. If you use the attunements to their fullest extent, you can do extremely well.

Also, I think you didn’t understand my post. I’m not asking for a direct buff to elementalists (outside of restoring some of our nerfed abilities) I’m asking for nerfs to several incredibly skilless builds. They instead are getting ignored or buffed.

Also keep in mind that I’m only talking about WvW, as that was the last bastion for seeing a viable elementalist. (We determine our stat output, which allows us sustainability)

Arenanet, I’m relatively certain I’m one of the last few elementalists not running around with a staff on my server.

I’ve been a believer that you know the general condition of the elementalist class, and you would improve it by SHAVING OP things around it in order to put it in its rightful place: a contender, not an underdog.

I have read the new updated patch notes and I am flaming furious. Boy was I wrong.

Not only has the “balance” team BUFFED: Warrior, Thief, Necromancers, they aren’t doing anything at all to the elementalist other than standardizing some of our moves.

Things that KILL elementalists:

Daze, Immobilize, Conditions.

You have buffed the king of conditions, Necro, and roughly doubled its minions’ health pools.

You have increased the healing on already sometimes impossible to kill healing warriors, did not fix the incredible nature with which they can stun me for 6 seconds every 15 seconds.

You have given thief a skill which causes immobilize with vulnerability.

On top of it all, you refuse to make conditions — the LEAST skilled aspect of this game — less powerful.

But lets put sugar on the already sickeningly sweet cake. You have yet to nerf perplexity runes which make EVERY class into a Mesmer!!

I’m incredibly exasperated. Please show me you know what you’re doing and can fix the terrible meta which threatens to ruin an entire game because frankly: you don’t listen to the player base.

I’ve been nothing but a staunch supporter of you, but we see nothing in return. Please explain why. That’s all I’m asking.

Regards,
The last elementalist on Maguuma (D/D)

SAKRAY.3690:

In WvW Ele’s are still insane powerhouses I almost feel like a God on them in PvP on the other hand ugh… You gotta put in so much effort for so little result better roll Necros or Rangers lololol………………… /sarcasm ;( buff PvP Ele’s!

This. I have a hard time making a distinction between if people are talking about WvW or SPvP. Ele is definitely fun in WvW, it is still susceptible to lots of condis though.

You barely tried to play. I’m not keen on when people are trolling, but ele isn’t that bad. If you’re using that ring to burn a target, you’re using it wrong.

Ele isn’t in that bad of a state.

Style, I have done fine over the past two days. These past two days will assuredly have more people doing the new content then the next few weeks will hold. So yes, thanks from me, a roamer.

I appreciate all the comments on this thread. Glad to see some discussion, few unintelligent posts.

I already stated how I feel, but I will update: second night in a row (SOS, MAG, EBAY) has been so fun. In off peak hours, I capped a boarderland bloodlust on my own. So that is possible.

Even through others having the buff, it isn’t impossible to stop them from keeping it. It just requires more strategy.

To the person suggesting “roaming” is 15 man groups? That’s zerging, and I don’t do that. 1-5 is the most I do.

Today the buff was pretty evenly split up. Most the evening all three servers kept one buff. GvG guilds could theoretically send roamers out to keep an even number of buffs and level out games that way. Happy roaming all

Vael Victus.2654:

I also want to say how pleased I am with these changes! Zergs have no reason to be getting these points, but zergs can still benefit from the roamers. I zerg, but I also roam a lot or break off from a zerg I feel isn’t worthy of my time. These cap points are the best place to be, and they’re not a big open field that zergs can traverse as easily.

The finishers for points is just genius: zergs hardly get finishers! If they want to, they’ll have to coordinate, and this gives one final boon to a player downed from a zerg: get yourself killed, but not finished.

While higher population servers could get more people on to hold these down, I can’t say it’s been the case in my four hours of WvW so far vs. a team that has double the points of my world.

Bravo. :} Now let’s get leagues started.

I’ve got to say I agree. Anybody who thinks this benefits zergs is only correct in the PvD sense. I’ve escaped zergs by dragging them through the middle. If you coordinate roaming teams, your server can keep at least one buff if not two to all three. (Last night 4 players got and held a buff from a server by playing smart.. It’s not impossible.)

Servers and people complaining are currently the ones who A) Have yet to try it out. B ) Haven’t actually tried to strategize getting the points. C) Aren’t able to strategize.

gwfanboy.2496:

Mbelch.9028:

Many people don’t recognize SPvP as the place to go duel, and WvW is the next best thing.

So in essence you are glad they added more capture points to fight over? Notice how the position of the capture points resembles spvp maps? Notice how spvp was always there to try and check it out?

You do realize they just added spvp areas to the center of wvw with the added disadvantage of the pve imbalance in the game?

I love when people skim and see what they want to see. Have you even played the new patch yet? Please don’t troll where there is no bridge. Thank you.

I am on Maguuma. Granted we are known for roamers and trolls, so perhaps each server should train up a roamer core.

Krypto.2069:

Hmmm… Mbelch, this post has been up for 9 hours. And it has very minimal people posting here.

I think the majoirity of folks do not like the WvW changes as a “whole.” I’ll agree that the Ruins area is fun as hell to fight small battles in. (I had a 2 vs 5+ man fight in the Ruins and me and Paragues kicked kitten! Very FUN!) But, if given a choice, I WOULD NOT sacrifice what WvW was before the update for what it is presently with the update. I’d roll back WvW to pre-update status due to the horrid BL Bloodlust mechanic. It would be sad to lose the new Ruins area, but I can’t play WvW against high coverage zergs with triple BL Bloodlust. (Sure, we were already getting our teeth kicked in pre-update. Now… we’re getting that plus stomped in the privates.)

Respectfully,

Thanks for your comment. I could go either way on the buff really. I have beaten people with it while I don’t have it, and I am not worried about an enemy having 50+ stats on me. A full 150 would be OP, but then why would I faceroll into someone with +150. I’d eliminate his stacks of bloodlust then engage.

Yes, simpler said than done, but it prompts some strategic play. Of that there is no doubt.

I most frequently am in 2v1s and I haven’t felt much pain on the stat front yet. I’m an elementalist, so yes stuns and dazes work well against me. But I am still having a decent time. I’ve even had the pleasure of mingling with other roamers.

I can see the negatives, as I said, and I hope they make the buff optional.

Take care and happy roaming!

Glad to see some other optimistic people on this thread.

Paralda, I can understand. I don’t exactly know if that was the top SoS time though. It might be time for Pyro to establish 5-10 mans and coordinate havoc groups. You do that and you can consider me a member.

I’m Nex btw.

Brew Pinch.5731:

In this thread: Crying over a few stat points instead of fighting for their realm and realizing the don’t really make a difference, but the quality of combat is VASTLY improved

In regards to the question, it’s a yes from me.

Pros

Spreads the population out and makes for tonnes of roaming potential and smaller scale conflicts.
This is now without a doubt the best open world PvP I’ve ever experienced.

Cons

Lag seems to be through the roof after this patch…

Key point

The minority who actualy come to the forums do so predominantly to complain. Most players are actually out in the borderlands loving the new changes

I’m so with you on this one. I check forums daily just to keep up with Dev postings, but the negativity is sad lol. “KILLING WVW ER EMM GEE”

On my server matchup, the leading server has NEVER had more than the minor buff. It seems like the bottom two servers are more concerned with holding it. Its been quite fun.

Even so 50-100 to each stat isn’t a big deal. It’s like a food buff. 150 is on the OP side, but again, I’ve never seen the leading server with that buff.

To the people here complaining, go cap 3 of the server’s points and take that buff away from them.

While I fully understand the issues the patch brings, I am creating a new thread as I don’t agree with certain things in the threads before this.

I LOVE the new small teams fighting the new ruins and capture points give roamers. We have been neglected for so long, and this opens it up to us. I just wanted to say thank you. I feel like I have something to do now.

I kind of like the Buff, but I realize it should be an optional buff. Many people don’t recognize SPvP as the place to go duel, and WvW is the next best thing. I liked an idea posted which said you should be able to pick the buff up somewhere if your server has it.

I’m confused, however, by the lag. Is it lag from the new PvE event? Or are new calculations throwing your servers into overdrive? Hopefully it works itself out, as I was missing a lot in my fights today due to lag.

All in all, I’m pumped by this patch, and I’ve heard from a lot of people in game on how excited they are as well. One day in, I’ve had a lot of fun.

Those are definitely some of my issues with the state of WvW. Hopefully they’ll modify it in the upcoming months to stimulate the roaming ‘class’ if you will.

I didn’t read this entire thread, so maybe something was resolved, but I don’t feel like turning WvW into SPvP is a well thought out idea.

If you desire the play style or the customization, just visit SPvP.

I have LONG been an advocate for allowing more gear choices into SPvP, as the choices there SEVERELY limit many classes. You should be able to port your Lvl 80 character’s stuff into SPvP.

I’d kill for some better dagger skins. I’d like an incinerator, but I don’t believe in life grinding for virtual pixels lol.

Nope.. No troll here guys. I haven’t been playing less time than most of you. I started when Mac Beta came out. I just realize that things don’t happen in the blink of an eye, and I’m thanking him for keeping in touch with the community.

I also hope you guys who relentlessly bash him realize that you catch more flies with honey than tar. I wish all devs would communicate as well as him. I’m thanking him for that and not much more. His brief tenure has brought OK changes, and I believe he can do good for WvW as a whole.

Even if he can’t, may as well make a good situation out of it.

I think Devon deserves a kitten medal for his slew of responses in WvW topics.

Even if WvW is in a terrible place right now, and maybe it will be for several months into the future, he’s at least acknowledging there are issues and trying to offer the changes he wants to implement.

I just wanted to say thanks. Especially after seeing so few responses from Devs in other places where responses are desperately needed. (COUGH Ele forum..)

Let’s continue to repair the broken WvW climate.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ MMR: We’re working on a fix for the grouping issue you point out in picture 1. This fix should also help to alleviate some of the queue issue as well.

@ Class diversity: I’ve also seen games (referring to your pics) with a ton of Rangers, or a ton of Thieves, or too many Warriors, or a ton of bunker Guardians. In your pic of the top players, you see 6 of the 8 classes. The community also seems to feel that Warriors are in a good place right now in PvP. That’s 7 classes. You could make a case that Mesmers have a hard time in a hard condition meta, and I think a lot of people would agree with you. They have counters to conditions, but a lot of players don’t like to run those in standard Mesmer setups.

@ Balance: Perception of balance is always changing, so we’ll continue to try to make sure all classes have good options!

I’m lost on how you can’t attempt to make ALL classes balanced. Where is Ele in this mix right now? You didn’t mention them, haven’t mentioned them. There’s no room for good eles at the moment. There’s no build diversity for us not because you’ve got traits messed up, but because you’ve got our base stats so low!!

Also because of our extremely limited armor choices.

Bump for justice :P. There’s a great thread on why eles aren’t great at the moment.

ALSO — Isaiah Cartwright just released a video on how to play ele…. So… How can we play ele like this?

ALSO — We got an answer on mist form, so the question is removed in lieu of a different one.

I’m a proponent for keeping our auto attacks the same. On most players, my two whips of lightning will hit on average 2800. On full Zerk, more like 3k, on full tank, more like 2.5k.

Water is more ranged, so I love that we gett a ranged hit even if it is farther. It has utility.

Fire is the only one I’d change, but I’d never recommend switching it for air’s auto. If you think about fire, you get between 1000-2400 depending on your hit. If all your blades hit, you hit that much. Just add it up.

Earth applies a bleed. It is a two sided edge, it hits low, but it deals a bleed. It has utility too. Just not as much as the others.

I think our autos are perfect. I think our damage needs a 15% buff overall.

Jon, thanks for the reply in our forums.

I’ve also found it works most the time. CC seems to randomly leak through at certain points. Sorry that’s so vague. It only happens once in a while.

Please consider responding to the other topic with questions on Eles in our forum.

Milennos — thanks for the comment. I hope they see the desire for responses, and they take the time to respond here.

Mirsa, many thanks for the bump. I hope people will keep this up so we make a statement.

Xhean, allow me to add that.

xbaunx, perhaps you’re right, but I still think it is helpful to communicate to your players on the future of their class.

Kyon, allow me to continue testing. If I find anything further, I’ll be sure to let you know. If I don’t, you’ll know they fixed it.

TGSlasher, thanks for your comments and adding to the thread.

Tobby, I disagree it would be unbalancing. The stats are all the same. I’m not sure if you are used to the same WvW I am, but thieves — even full glass — don’t 2 hit me. They’re easy to counter as they die quickly. Stealth is the issue there, but it is a different can of worms.

About WvW being unbalanced, I must also bring up the point that there are diehard roamer groups — like mine — that love to do 1vX where we are the 1, not the X. So there is balance. The only unbalanced thing about it, is that you can bring 20-100 people just to knock out one small 5 man group. The new stats would allow for small teams play like WvWers like me love in SPvP. Especially with some new game modes.

You seem very intelligent, so I appreciate your comments even though your views differ from mine.

dreztina.4820:

I have to wonder if the people who think pve stats are bad have ever actually played in high skill fights using them. From their comments, I’m thinking no.

I’m with you.

I wouldn’t even insinuate that the gear is PvE gear. It happens to only be in PvE, but those stats are meant for fighting as well. All but magic find — which is being removed anyways — should be moved OR allowed into SPvP.

Drez I know you’d agree Eles take specific gear calculations to be even more effective.

I’d like to dispel the thought that organized roamers are only 1% of any players in WvW. I know I’ve done my part more than zergs hung up at a tower while I’ve captured every single camp in a BL.

There’s more fun in roaming, and I can confirm MANY people do it. It should be developed and supported.

Devon, your responses here were reassuring. I’m glad for your time.

If you have time for a lowly roamer’s question: Will your team be bringing anything to help roaming/discourage 100-man-zergs?
Also are you going to implement a map/area for dueling/GvG?

Two things I’d kill to know.

Thanks.

Kyon, I was – hit last night in mist form, so I don’t believe it is 100% fixed. Maybe they tried fixing it, but I’m not sure. I know they read it. But when was the last time we got a good response on the state of Elementalist, where the class is heading?

Emiko, if no glyphs make sense, why put it on a glyph. That’s my thought on it. If something doesn’t make sense, don’t do it.

Sovereign.8520:

I may be mistaken but did you say that fire grab was pointless?

Oh no. Never. Fire grab helps me shock and awe. Without it, idk if we would be viable. “cumbersome or pointless skills like fire grab and dragon’s tooth” I said it is cumbersome. The sentence structure was just a little confusing :p. I think dragons tooth is pointless.

Thanks for your comments all.

Chaith.8256:

Mbelch.9028:

This is about stats mostly. Why will it never happen? List reasons and logical thinking behind it.

Most people have agreed that advanced build making would be beneficial to SPvP.

It was a very conscious design decision to make sPvP limited in the different possible stat distributions. PvP balance has to be very finely tuned, there is an imposed limit to how ‘glassy’ and how ‘tanky’ you can be, so it’s in a reasonable position to balance without considering 50% more posibilities.. Full glass cannons in WvW and PvP are quite different. 100% crit damage vs, 50% crit dmg in extreme cases. Full support bunkers are very different in WvW and PvP as well.

Don’t get me wrong, everyone agrees that stat customization is a desirable feature for MMO players, but if it brings more extreme comps/builds to the table then I don’t know if I’m up for that.

If you think about it, there’s far more than 50% more possibilities. The allowance of full gear choice almost means no build is the same.

In regards to the tanks are tankier, they can be, but they really aren’t. As most tanks in WvW still need damage. They therefore use soldiers. Or soldiers and Zerk. And if you notice, the soldiers option in SPvP is true to PvE. So the tanks really aren’t tankier. I just wanted to point that out.

For each level of give you have in PvE you have another level of take. That’s how I see it.

I understand that the amulets may have been a conscientious decision, but they look like options to help noobs understand armor.

Silentflute, this has nothing to do with overall skill between the two. You don’t seem to get that I’m trying to ask for greater diversity. Something WvW offers. Bring it to SPvP so more people play it in general. Thanks for your comments.

Tobbygnome.6793:

There are many things that would bring WvW players to sPvP, i play both in a structured manner, not in a casual manner, and i can say that i would play sPvP more if there were real rewards and more importantly better game modes.

It’s like playing Arathi Basin in WoW, it’s a brilliant map and very fun even after 8 years, but to play it constantly every single match, is zero fun. That’s the same for Conquest in Gw2, it’s basically the same every map with just a different look and different ‘secondary’ objectives, but even those secondary objects on certain maps are a pain and very boring or not worth doing at all in Hotjoin.

The way Hotjoin and sPvP is setup makes it not even seem like a game mode, it’s just a sandbox of walking practice targets to test out stuff. This is what separates sPvP from other games, it’s just not fun nor rewarding.

Take Counterstrike for instance, the game is fun, winning gives self satisfaction due to the balanced nature and promotion of skill the game requires, this is why games like that don’t need objectified rewards like glory points to make u enjoy it. Then there’s games that do reward you for winning, reward you with meaningful rank, or ELO, or spending points for real things that improve yourself in-game. These 2 things, rewards and satisfaction are what make people enjoy a game and enjoy winning, at a primitive level.

GW2 has these things too, but it’s very very limited for a large player base, the balance is off, people are getting frustrated with fighting certain builds/classes, the rewards can be completely meaningless for someone who cares not for skins. This is why people don’t enjoy hotjoin that much, and the motivation for winning is low.

Now imagine sPvP with tangible rewards and more fun and enjoyable game modes. Sure class balance may still be off to a point, but the game now promotes a reason for teamwork, and a reason to win, which would kind of make class imbalances seem less frustrating.

This is my view on why players in general, not just WvWers, do not enjoy sPvP.

Tobby, I cannot say how much I agree with you. Those are great points. Thanks for posting them here. I still hope for a focus on balance, but yes, I’d kill for tangible rewards. If you got 1 silver for a win, 10 silver for being a category leader or something along thee lines. Obviously that’s flawed since silver means nothing there, but I wish it did.

Thanks for adding to the discussion.

Thesilentflute.8761:

You don’t have to do anything you don’t want to If your talking about min maxing there can only be one. You should try not being a sheep.

As per this and your last message in regards to calling me a ‘dot following’ sheep, I must say: trolls need not troll.

If you have something constructive to add to the discussion, I encourage you to leave it. If you disagree, explain why and end it there.

Please don’t call people you don’t know out on things you yourself very may well be guilty of.

As per myself, I’m strictly a small teams roamer on Maguuma. I’m in FEAR and my name is Tormentum Nex. Look me up, I promise I’m not a bad fighter. I’d be happy to duel.

The reality of this in my eyes:

Build diversity is good.

Allowing people to pick their own combination of stats to augment a build allows diversity.

Therefore, allowing people to pick the stats on each piece of gear is good.

This is my logic.. Lol. If you disagree, leave it at that. Thanks

Clap.1507:

I can’t tell if this is about skins or builds/stats….

…WvW stats in sPvP will never happen…

I honestly don’t mind if they got to use their skins. I think finishers and titles are the main rewards anyways.

But the number of wvw’s not sPvP’ing just because of their gear skins is probably pretty small….so I don’t think it would change much.

This is about stats mostly. Why will it never happen? List reasons and logical thinking behind it.

Most people have agreed that advanced build making would be beneficial to SPvP.

I hope they add dueling everywhere… A dueling map in WvW, dueling options in PvE and dueling competitions and servers in SPvP. That’s a huge part of any game.

While I agree, this was more about the build diversity and stats than it was about the overall skins. Thanks for the comment Reikou

Well at least I feel like people think its acceptable.

The thing about limiting people to one or two sets of viable stats is it makes your build combos quite limited. Certain builds simply work MUCH better with certain gear choices.

I’ve seen some incredible builds stitched together with a piece here, a piece there. The stats afforded by the gear allowed people to select certain traits which made a neat build.

Peter, I hope that a list like this could open a dialogue on the forum. The whole goal is to GET some responses here. Like you said, the responses are like water in a desert.

Thanks for the comment. I’ll inbox this thread to Jon and explain why I’d like him or a representative to comment on it.

Thanks for the responses guys. I hope ANET considers this. I myself feel pidgeonholed into certain things in SPvP and it keeps me out of the game mode.

Isaac- Lol :p I’m a WvW player, but I think a lot of us roamers really have certain aspects of SPvP at heart.

Reserved for future questions—

Reserved for future questions—

Reserved for future questions—

If this works as I’d like it to, this should be an informational list of running questions about our class.

I repeatedly see Anet reps, like Jon Sharp, say they read everything, but can’t always reply in length.

This will be a numbered list that hopefully a developer can just reply Yes or No to in a list format. Elementalist friends, please help keep this active to bring attention to the questions here. Also please suggest prevalent questions you’d like to see asked.

So, here are some questions we’d like answered.
1.) Previous Ele nerfs may have been fine at the time, but since then new classes have been buffed. It is currently impossible to kill a warrior using condition armor and the healing signet with a sustain build. Will we be restored now that most classes are on a higher level?

2.) Are any foreseeable buffs coming to elementalist traits? Many feel previous nerfs left the class unplayable.

2a.) Once in for all, will you buff RTL to a better cool down?

3.) Will you be changing cumbersome or pointless skills like fire grab and dragon’s tooth?

4.) Are there any plans to change GoEP from stunbreak and place it anywhere else? I have seen zero elementalists use it.

5.) In a new condition meta, do you see yourselves helping elementalists fit in? We currently don’t 100% fit in, as this forum would tell you.

6.) Are elementalists a priority for post PAX changes?

— Additional questions
7.) Will conjure weapons be looked or changed?

7a.) Will we be able to use conjure skills under water in the future?

ANET representatives: I’m a journalist who plays your game. I love your game like I love my work, but just like in work, I lose respect for people who aren’t transparent and won’t answer simple questions. I’ve structured the list so one of your reps could literally quote and reply yes or no.

Thank you so much for your time.
-Nex, a Maguuma Ele.

As an avid WvWer on Maguuma, I often get bugged as to why I don’t go into SPvP more frequently.

My answer: I don’t enjoy seeing the same builds repeatedly, I feel my character progression means nothing and most importantly — I feel myself pigeonholed when build crafting by limited armor choices.

I think by allowing players to sync their PvE char with their PvP char — so that armors and skins from the one side were coppied to the next — more people would come back to SPvP on a regular basis.

I don’t think most would even mind a price charge for the service, but if one thinks about it, it should allow better balance, it should make things more interesting and in reality, the grind for skins is quite similar in each mode, so it isn’t unfair to ‘Skinheads’ :P.

Anet, is this something you’ll work on or consider? For now, too many people think your premiere PvP mode is basic.

FEAR on Mag, I also see Swag running 5-mans.

I love 5-man-teams so much, it’s just a crying shame they get steamrolled by zergs if they make even the smallest error.

Nice thread.

One great thing to add is incentive for this war..

What is war without gain? We have no real personal gains. Other than loot.. Which we could get anywhere, experience which we could get at a less costly venue. Badge armor? Quicker to farm and get armor through gold and TP.

What I’m saying is what’s in it? We fight fight fight but for what? Obviously we fight because we like to, and we like to win. But when we’re frustrated, we can get off and do other things. There’s nothing truly drawing us in. If you fix this, and fix it right mind you, you’ll have a different situation on your hands IMO.

Sunreva.8714:

B) Also, another tweak that would help to eliminate bads roaming in huge groups, would be to make it so that capture points (camps, towers, keeps) only issue a fixed value of XP/world XP which get distributed to players in the capture radius. For example, a supply camp could be worth 5000 points (arbitrary number)

A million times this. So +1 my friend.

Coming from a full time WvWer, I can blatantly say I’m frustrated by the current climate of WvW.

Here are a few things that bother me..
*High pop servers matched with lower pop servers
How can a high pop server like Dragonbrand be matched with Maguuma and expect anything but 150k to 50k scores.
*The amount of lag a large Zerg can bring.
I call it my zerg senses. Sometimes I can tell a Zerg is in the area because my frame rate drops to 10. Some times I can port, but then why should I have to port?
*The realism issue.
A small group should be MORE mobile and a larger group should be LESS mobile. Yes, this would lead to discussions of a debuff for zergs. I don’t think that should be ruled out, but I have another suggestion.

That’s not to say I’m crying about these things. I look at Zerg warfare as a challenge. I grab my five closest buddies and give fighting them off my best shot. But at a certain point, you simply lose something. When there are zergs of 50+ running around against servers that can barely field 50 people per map, we have an issue with matchups.

It is easy to say that the game mode was designed for large scale pvp, “if you want small scale, go to spvp.” That is pathetic! SPvP is a joke, although I thank the Devs for working towards a better game there. I play WvW because I love working with my character that I spent time perfecting. I customized my armor pieces, my sigils, runes and weapons. The fact you can’t do that the same way in SPvP keeps me away.

So to continue addressing “If you’re not in a Zerg, go home.” type responses, I’d say what about scouting parties, special operations teams and demolitions. You need Zerg warfare because it keeps this game interesting and it is unique at this point to GW. I don’t disagree that it should stay.

I have several suggestions from myself and my friends on ways to begin bringing other facets of the game back to WVW.

*I love Sunreva’s suggestion of risk vs reward. If nothing else, this should be added in tomorrow. It at least makes it worth it to roam alone or with a few other scouts.
-This alone would fix a lot by encouraging certain people to group up into smaller zergs at a lower level. It just keeps maps more populated with that population spread out.
*Dedicated roles
-These are something to consider as a great way of encouraging people to step into different roles. For example, why not include a Scout, Soldier and Defender role. You pick one as you enter the battlefield. Your tag you receive from selecting one of the above grants you several buffs and several debuffs. For example.. Solder gives you: “Safety in numbers. You receive a bonus from being in 1000 range of at least 15 allies. Soldiers move with a 40% running cripple when in 1000 range of 15 allies” Scouts receive different bonuses and so do defenders. These don’t have to be exactly like what I just described, but they truly would branch people out more.

*Changes to outmanned buff
-This is a way of getting around debuffing zergs. Make outmanned an area buff that only pops up when you’re severely disadvantaged in numbers in a 1500 area radius around you. This could allow small man teams to escape zergs instead of getting steamrolled by them.

*Losing mercenaries
-Perhaps a way to make the mid week more fun for servers with more people and maybe a little more fair for servers without people. This would entail some breakout type scenarios.. For example:
-If a server has held onto a garrison/keep they need to pay its defenders an increasing amount of gold, otherwise they turn a mutiny and help the server they originally belonged to.
-If a server’s original territory has been taken for a long time, mid week, army patrols will begin roaming the streets. So just extra veteran guard/scout contingents around.

To close.. Yes not everybody will agree with everything I’ve said, but please realize I just am aiming at a little more reality/balance/fun. After all, who hasn’t been bored with WvW if your server is winning by 100k or losing by 100k. The most fun I’ve had in WvW is similar server matches that are decided by 5-10k points.

Good luck and happy roaming, comrades!

By the way, for anybody concerned with it, I’m a Maguuma Mesmer/Thief who roams small teams 100% of the time on the game.

dadamowsky.4692:

Mbelch.9028:

I’d like to start by saying I haven’t been Mesmer for long, but in my few weeks of playing the class, I’ve tried all the weapons and I know iZerk is supposed to be one of the stronger ones…

So my question is if this is a tracking issue, why can’t all damage be in one hit? That first one.. Simple fix.

Ive read this thread and it seems like this is a nerf, not a bug.

As a 100% WvWer, I know my iZerk can hit anywhere between 1200 and 5600 on vet guards. It should ALWAYS hit around 5600, or GS becomes unreliable and useless.

Please do something about this…… Test it on moving targets, stakes, whatever you need to do to realize something is NOT right.

No, simply no. I’d rather have no fix to Zerk than strip him from this beautiful tagging ability changing it to first hit. If anything I’d rather like to see a ground targeting on it, so we could choose a vector for the Zerk than delivering whole damage in a very small area/single target only.

I’m confused as to why it couldn’t have the same vector whirl, but have the damaged delivered to each individual target upon the first hit if they’re in the vicinity of the phantasm. It SHOULD theoretically be an easy fix.

I’d like to start by saying I haven’t been Mesmer for long, but in my few weeks of playing the class, I’ve tried all the weapons and I know iZerk is supposed to be one of the stronger ones…

So my question is if this is a tracking issue, why can’t all damage be in one hit? That first one.. Simple fix.

Ive read this thread and it seems like this is a nerf, not a bug.

As a 100% WvWer, I know my iZerk can hit anywhere between 1200 and 5600 on vet guards. It should ALWAYS hit around 5600, or GS becomes unreliable and useless.

Please do something about this…… Test it on moving targets, stakes, whatever you need to do to realize something is NOT right.

I thought the point of GW2 over other games was to be fair to all players.

PvP is extremely flawed at the moment. Thieves, like already stated here are far too overpowered in the fact that a very skilled person can topple any other class on a thief, even win most 2-3v1 fights. Kronos here is on my server and I’ve seen him do it..

I think this game should give everybody a fair shake, and it should also be more lifelike. If you’re on 5/8 classes, you’re toast if there are two people on you for the most part. It should be harder in general to kill people, but once they have lost their health bars, they should be dead, or at least unable to attack, but still able to crawl away depending on their injuries. It just isn’t lifelike, especially for a downed thief that can still hit 3k in downed state per hit and have it bounce. So if you do wind up killing one annoying backstab, 30 critical strikes cookie cutter thief build thief, good luck also stomping unless you have a great stomp measure.

This is a problem with a few classes, and I just think everything should be equalized so classes really do have inherent advantages and disadvantages which allow them to roam without guaranteeing their death. The unevenness is indisputable by the fact that most people you see are A-GC thieves, B-GC Mesmers, C-GC warriors. Obviously something is wrong that a defensive class can’t defend against a GC class.

This trend shows that there is an imbalance and the game only rewards people who are A-Super offensive and B-Zerging

It encourages groups of people to get together, ignore for the most part defensive abilities and just rely on the fact that a hundred glass cannons could easily beat and number of glass cannons with defensive people sprinkled in.

Real life rewards attack skills and defense skills, and Zerging isn’t always a plus either.

I’m just saying every single class, even poor little necro, should have a chance 1v1 at least to fight every other class. The only difference between classes should be fighting styles, not “Oh WvW time? Let me log my thief and get off my PvE necro.”

I know that isn’t completely germane to this argument, but it is a statement based on this thief facing off against a similar, yet lower skilled guardian and a poorly skilled guardian, and the guardians being able to do jack diddly to the thief.

But ALSO the fact that once a person kills someone they just should be dead. The game rewards relying on others in PvP far too much, when in many real situations it is every man for himself.