Guild Wars 2

Gav.1425:

Dahkeus.8243:

They already confirmed that druids will still have pets. As much as I’d like to see them go back on that, I doubt we’ll see it since that would invalidate the entire BM trait specialization for any druid.

Source on the druid pet claim?

And they can invalidate an entire spec line with no problem. If you spec Druid, don’t spec beast. It’s as simple as that. You can only run 2 lines anyways.

They could do what they did for reapers, have a mechanic like “instead of your pet, this bonus is granted to…”

Yeah, though, prob going to be keeping pet after all.

Manuhell.2759:

We already tried it. Every time we left turrets out in the field and they were destroyed in few seconds. And that’s with traits making them sturdier – something that gyros even lack.
And unlike most turrets, those are meant to be used in melee, since that’s where the scrapper should be.
How can you even think that the results will be different?

See now I want to go try it out for myself. Engineer is tied with Necromancer for my 2nd favorite slot, but Mesmer has been my main pretty hardcore for the last three years, just playing necro or engineer when I needed a break from my mez, and the other professions even less so.

So it’s rather amusing that my only engineer build I made before this last major patch… was an elixir bomb build. Since then I’ve been experimenting with other things, but I never really used turrets too much.

So now I suppose I need to go try them out for myself.

But are you saying that turrets are useless in every game format? PVE, PVP, and WVW? fractals, dungeons, and open world?

And another question… Do turrets, like mesmer illusions, adopt their stats in part from the user? If so, and if most engineers go full offensive stats (Zerker etc) then isn’t that kinda making your own problems?

Let me give an example. Often I see people in the mesmer forums posting that so and so illusion is worthless junk because they just cant live long enough; but lo and behold, I take gear with more defensive stats, and sure enough, my illusions survive much better than what these others were reporting – which makes this a STAT issue rather than an issue with the skill itself.

Case in point: Precisely because of this discussion, when I went home for lunch from work, I took my mesmer into pvp, with the Mental Defense Trait, Signet of Illusions, PVT gear, and the Inspiration line with the first two traits set to increasing phantasm survivability.

I also took several skills that gave me blocks and dodges – I was doing other stuff with the build as well that triggered some effects based on dodging, blocking, etc, but I also wanted to test the pDefender.

Over the course of several battles, I was constantly summoned the pDefender because of the Mental Defense trait. People had reported it died instantly, in ANY format, and thus it was worthless.

Mine did not die instantly. It didnt survive all that long, but seriously, 50% damage reduction effectively would be way too powerful if it lasted too long. It was enough that the pDefender lasted a good 5, 10, sometimes 15 seconds; and since when you have retaliation on your phantasm from the inspiration trait, and pDefender splits all damage, it triggers retaliation twice, once from an illusion and once from the Defender itself.

Note that this was merely verifying what i knew to be true with the mesmer; been playing it since bwe2 of the core game, I’ve played similar builds in every aspect of the game.

The point being, the usefulness of various mesmer illusions depends heavily on the traits of the user itself. I am not aware of whether or not the turrets and gyros adopt their stats from yours, but it seems likely and, if so, it may well be that the average user has been going heavy offense and low defense, thus meaning turrets, and gyros, simply would not have the CHANCE of surviving because, if they could survive well with zerker stats, they would be seriously OP.

Understand here, before you flame me on this: I’m NOT saying this is the case. I know my mesmer very well, but I fully admit not being an expert on the engineer. I’m SPECULATING… but based on my experiences with mesmer and the naysayers there who also run full offensive gear as well, my suspicions are that this might possibly be the case here as well.

And so when I get a chance i’m going to go try some turret play with my engineer. I’m willing to be proven wrong. I want to see how it goes and see if I AM wrong or not.

miriforst.1290:

Morfedel.4165:

Killyox.3950:

Lemondish.3268:

Morfedel.4165:

dancingmonkey.4902:

I am seeing post upon post in the other subforums about how they are taking the feedback from a BWE and using it to significantly change aspects of the ES’s. To call it a waste strikes me as disconnected bias.

The only thing confirmed about BWE was 3 invite only betas. As we had at release. Which then included some additional open betas. So trying to imply we will only have one test for feedback strikes me as crying wolf in that reguard. Sure, I would have preferred they announced them all at once, in the first week, but that doesn’t justify irrationally declaring the testing we will have as “a waste”.

Agreed.

Moreover, as stated, just because BWE3 is the last beta weekend doesn’t mean beta testing is over. It COULD mean that. It could also be that they will have some open beta time where the entire world can play. After all, they had BWEs for the core game AND open betas at the end before the game went live.

Granted, they haven’t told us either way, but the point is we don’t really know yet, do we?

Even more important is that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that balance and changes will not end when HoT launches.

I don’t think this is the issue people are getting at.

Imo it has more to do with the fear of being left after the release and ANet not doing big enough changes at that point and focusing more on fixing maps/raids/other stuff.

I can understand that fear that there won’t be enough attention to Scrapper/Druid.

I understand, but I don’t think it’s valid. After all, they’ve been doing balance fixes since day 1.

The problem is when they don’t fix something, or balance something, that the community has an issue with; for example, it took them three years to fix a bug with Phantasmal Haste; and Rangers have been always complaining about their pet (I’m not sure how valid it is, I only dabble in ranger, but right or wrong, the complaints persist).

But I have no fear that they will continue to balance things.

People are worried it will turn out like the “biweekly” balance patches after the specialization update, the single largest remake of the trait system yet. At least we got rifled barrels and bombs fixed after a lot of complaining. Now we are waiting for medkit and medical dispersion field. And where did the pistol main hand go?

But this was for all professions, not a lot of updates for anyone. Though they managed to squeeze in a mortar and some mesmer nerfs.

I suppose. I think my real gripe is people are complaining before even trying it out. Sometimes things play differently than they look on paper. Yeah of course sometimes they play exactly like they look on paper too, but I feel we should at least give it a shot before we start complaining about these things. And then if it really does suck and then we complain about it lol

Are.1326:

iKeostuKen.2738:

So its basically, burst group healing with 1 protection vs sustained group healing with 2.

No, that is like saying Reconstruction field gives 5 protection so it is better than 1 protection from healing turret. Protection viability is about uptime, not stacks, and healing turret wins out in uptime.

Sustain heal vs burst heal means nothing since healing turrets burst heal have better sustain than the medic gyro. Normaly, sustain means more health over time and burst means more health upfront, but healing turret gives more health upfront and over time so it is best in both sustain and burst.

Healing turret also gives more health to allies (both in sustain and burst) so it’s no benefit in taking medic gyro there.

And again, Reconstruction field requires that you and your allies stand inside it for it’s durration. It is a 300 field, so it’s not that usefull unles you want to be a sitting duck.

Or if you want to do some cheesy stacking tactics in dungeons, which no one ever does.

Oh wait…

I have seen turret based engineers do a very credible job of holding points against other teams capturing them in PvP. My engineer isn’t my main but it is one of the two secondaries that I play quite a bit when I’m burnt out on my Mesmer. And I always thought they did a pretty decent job if played correctly.

That being the case however, I will admit that as I said it isn’t my main. So I can be corrected. It’s just, like I said I’ve seen turret engineers do pretty well at least in PvP

oh haha i had an idea: a trait, Elixir Infused Gyros. Whenever a gyro is destroyed, it triggers some kind of effect. For example, healing gyro creates a regen field or something, function gyro could create the effects of the elixir r toolbelt skill or somesuch, etc etc.

I will admit that though I do like the function gyro concept a lot, I do not like the cool down. 10 seconds may be too much though. Maybe 15 seconds?

Chaba.5410:

Morfedel.4165:

I After all, here is a list of things that have hit points in the game that aren’t changing either: turrets, minions, pets, illusions. Save summons, elemental summons, spirit weapons. I may have missed something, but you get the point.

For contrast, here’s a list of summoned things that don’t have hit points.

Ventari Tablet: Revenant
Banners: Warrior
Conjure Weapons: Elementalist

All three of which cannot perform actions on their own. Ventari’s tablet has to be actively controlled, weapons have to be equipped and replace skills, and banners just… sit there.

The gyro, however, remains visible and can be destroyed.

As for the reveal pulse, mesmer and thief had really had it good with so much stealth and almost zero counterplay to it – it was time some counterplay became available. Unfortunately its skilled based and really just exists on one class, but in a way that’s good for you guys. Engineer has the only reliable anti stealth tools (though rangers hvae some sorta kinda abilities)

What they should really do is have some kind of counterplay built into the game itself, but not something that easily voids the stealth either. But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

I’m seeing a lot of people complaining about other classes gaining access to reveal, and want thieves immune to reveal, or reduce it, or remove it from skills, esp sneak gyro.

If you havent fought against a permastealth thief yourself though, you have no idea how frustrating it can be, simply swinging in the air and trying to guess where that thief is. Especially if its a zerker build, as are you, and he can literally one shot you with backstab.

So, no. Stealth has to have some kind of real counterplay. If the thief is too fragile without stealth, than something ELSE needs to be done about it, but stealth has to have some counterplay of some kind… and not just because of thieves, but because of mesmers too.

((frankly, I think stealth should have a counterplay that isn’t built into skills but built into the game engine itself, but I suspect that won’t be happening anytime soon))

Amante.8109:

BIRDPUNCHER.8263:

Is it reasonable to suggest that the Revealed-applying skills be changed to, instead of applying Revealed, simply removing stealth from affected players?

I would like to strongly echo this. The toolbelt skill on the Scrapper Elite removing players from Stealth instead of causing Revealed seems like a great direction to go with other anti-Stealth abilities. You could still leave in self-applied Reveal to stop people from chaining Stealth.

I’d also like to suggest the idea of profession-specific durations for self-applied Reveal. The Thief has been sold as the “master” of Stealth to the point where they’re balanced around using it to survive, so four seconds of Reveal hurts Thief disproportionately more than any other profession. Either way you cut it, Thief badly needs more reliable Stealth OR less reliance on it through an increase in core durability. Preferably the latter

I really dont think this would be reasonable. Most thieves Ive fought against can pretty much reapply stealth nearly instantly. Granted, there are exceptions, but something as simple as C&D and bam, yer gone again.

Stealth needs more counterplay than simply popping you out of stealth for 1 second.

Aeolus.3615:

They work like guardian SW, theres a moment in the video where the gyro runs into the midle of the golems, now imagine that in a fight with players…

Healing gyro as a smaller aera and checks if players is on that area.

Some of those gyros are targettable. I don’t recall the video well enough to say for sure, so I’ll have to go watch it again if they have it up on youtube, but if the player targeted a group, that would be the player’s fault.

Killyox.3950:

Lemondish.3268:

Morfedel.4165:

dancingmonkey.4902:

I am seeing post upon post in the other subforums about how they are taking the feedback from a BWE and using it to significantly change aspects of the ES’s. To call it a waste strikes me as disconnected bias.

The only thing confirmed about BWE was 3 invite only betas. As we had at release. Which then included some additional open betas. So trying to imply we will only have one test for feedback strikes me as crying wolf in that reguard. Sure, I would have preferred they announced them all at once, in the first week, but that doesn’t justify irrationally declaring the testing we will have as “a waste”.

Agreed.

Moreover, as stated, just because BWE3 is the last beta weekend doesn’t mean beta testing is over. It COULD mean that. It could also be that they will have some open beta time where the entire world can play. After all, they had BWEs for the core game AND open betas at the end before the game went live.

Granted, they haven’t told us either way, but the point is we don’t really know yet, do we?

Even more important is that everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that balance and changes will not end when HoT launches.

I don’t think this is the issue people are getting at.

Imo it has more to do with the fear of being left after the release and ANet not doing big enough changes at that point and focusing more on fixing maps/raids/other stuff.

I can understand that fear that there won’t be enough attention to Scrapper/Druid.

I understand, but I don’t think it’s valid. After all, they’ve been doing balance fixes since day 1.

The problem is when they don’t fix something, or balance something, that the community has an issue with; for example, it took them three years to fix a bug with Phantasmal Haste; and Rangers have been always complaining about their pet (I’m not sure how valid it is, I only dabble in ranger, but right or wrong, the complaints persist).

But I have no fear that they will continue to balance things.

dancingmonkey.4902:

I am seeing post upon post in the other subforums about how they are taking the feedback from a BWE and using it to significantly change aspects of the ES’s. To call it a waste strikes me as disconnected bias.

The only thing confirmed about BWE was 3 invite only betas. As we had at release. Which then included some additional open betas. So trying to imply we will only have one test for feedback strikes me as crying wolf in that reguard. Sure, I would have preferred they announced them all at once, in the first week, but that doesn’t justify irrationally declaring the testing we will have as “a waste”.

Agreed.

Moreover, as stated, just because BWE3 is the last beta weekend doesn’t mean beta testing is over. It COULD mean that. It could also be that they will have some open beta time where the entire world can play. After all, they had BWEs for the core game AND open betas at the end before the game went live.

Granted, they haven’t told us either way, but the point is we don’t really know yet, do we?

MrTJpwnz.4710:

That there are hit points isn’t the problem to be honest… it’s just the amount of hit points that is a problem…

Making them invunerable to damage would be lame, not even fun to play with (or against) them, 0 counterplay possiblities… Sad that alot of people don’t see that..

I agree. The problem is, do we really know what the gyro hit points is based on stats? I assume it scales with the players stats.

what we should do I think is check the stats on exotic armor for Celestial, Berserker, and, I don’t know, maybe Knight’s or Nomads or something.

Here is the reason why I think this is important. If their stats scale the way illusions do for mesmers, then it makes a big difference in their survivability based on what gear you use. For instance, a Bulwark Gyro may be far better for Sentinel gear than for Berserker.

I guess this all comes back to the zerker mentality. So many people look at zerker as the meta and then say “pDefender sucks!” Well, yes, when it adopts its own stats off yours, and its a fully defensive phantasm, and you GAVE it crappy vitality, don’t be surprised.

If you go beyond fully offensive gear and stats, then that might well change things.

I hate to say this, but if you think the hit points on gyros is bad, you might as well either get over it or just plan to not use it.

After all, here is a list of things that have hit points in the game that aren’t changing either: turrets, minions, pets, illusions. Save summons, elemental summons, spirit weapons. I may have missed something, but you get the point.

So you might as well get used to the gyros having hit points. If you think they are weak, focus on other aspects to improve them. Perhaps more hit points. Perhaps some kind of effect when they die. Something. but the hit points are almost certainly not going to go away.

Frankly, I thought it would be fun to actually tie in something with their fuel. When they get summoned, their fuel is an actual gauge that determines perhaps how much burning people in an area suffer when it’s destroyed. In other words, when they’re destroyed, they splash of fuel on all enemies around them, and set them on fire, the more fuel they had, the more burning they suffer. Or something like that.

But I feel fairly confident in saying that hit points are here to stay. Let’s find a suggestion that make them work within that frame of reference.

This would be consistent with how the original Guild Wars 2 game went from beta to live. They continure to do fixes after the game went live, so I suspect they aren’t terribly concerned about making sure everything is perfect before heart of thorns goes live.

SuicideFall.3697:

Oh great healing gyro comes with daze! cool, ok.
Oh wait, now i remember. Healing turret has baseline KB…..

It is? Then what is the engineer trait explosive powder for?

I have a theory that they are replacing for the druid pets with an mechanic where the druid changes aspects which will also influence his glyphs

I’ve been reading the wiki entries but something seems to brat missing. Didn’t they say in the poi that when a gyro is destroyed it dazes in an area? Or am I remembering incorrectly?

How often does healing pulse occur? I looked it up in the wiki and no information.

Are.1326:

Morfedel.4165:

Gyros are mobile, turrets aren’t

You don’t leave the healing turret out. To get the most out of your heal you place it, overcharge it and pick it up again. Or you can blow it up for a healing blast (adds 5 sec to the cooldown).

By placing it and picking it up you get:

• 2520 hp from placement to yourself.
• 2520 hp from overcharge to yourself and allies.
• 2 conditions removed from yourself and allies.
• Regen for 7+ sec for yourself and allies
• 15 sec before you can do it again.

Medic gyro not dying to early gives you:

• 2590 hp on placement to yourself.
• 820 health every 3 sec over 14 sec (that is 3480 hp) to yourself and allies.
• 14sec+30sec (for a total of 44 sec) before you can use it again.

If the medic gyro is destroyed right away you get:

• 2590 Hp to yourself.
• 30 sec before you can use it again.

Gyro also have shorter Radius (300 vs 480 on healing turret)

The Gyro is clearly worst in every aspect. It is higher risk, heals les, no regen, no condi removal, works worst with invention traits or even the new trait called Recovery Matrix).

Ahh true, didn’t think of if that way.

lorddarkflare.9186:

Voramoz.6790:

They did not even show it in the reveal. It is unfinished and not game changing.

Definitely un-finished. Like all the specs as they were introduced. Except for Chronomancer.

That did worry me a little that they didn’t show off the function gyro

Come on fellow Engineer! This is our chance to help make it great! Don’t settle for mediocre. This is the only time since the game launched three years ago where there is a time a developer has specifically asked for feedback specifically for making the Engineer better. I have been posting walls of text in the other elite spec threads that I had time to properly test because this is a rare chance we have. We don’t have to just live with it. Rather than complain in 3 months (not saying you specifically will, just in general) let’s make the most of the chance we have now to work with Irenio and make it great. That’s the great thing about these feedback threads in the different forums right now. The devs are actually listening to valid feedback. Give your own ideas, say what you like and what doesn’t work, give reasons for it and how it could be better. As long as it’s valid feedback and not just trolling (which there has been very little of so far, good job Engineers!) I think the more of it Irenio has the better. He can focus on what the majority seems to agree on and go from there.

We may not get everything we want. In fact I can guarantee we won’t. But some things will change, and if we make ourselves heard then we can improve the Scrapper. I don’t know why any Engineer would not want to see that happen.

Oh don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying there’s no room for improvement. I’m arguing against those who are saying it’s worthless.

So how would you improve it for pve without making it too powerful in pvp and wvw and without changing it’s core concept?

miriforst.1290:

Morfedel.4165:

And what you missed is that this only added and took nothing whatsoever away. All it did was give options. And even revives area at times necessary in PvE, saving you time to fight while you’re function gyro does the revive.

Furthermore you can trait your gyros to have effects upon death.

So really its at least mediocre if not good. Boring whatsoever wrong with it

Mediocre, i like the sound of that! Ill remember that when other elite specializations dodge 3 times in a row baseline, fire exploding sniper rounds, charge around swinging scythes the size of streetlights and travel back in time.

Jokes aside i do like the idea of the gyro, although i do completely understand people arguing that you wont see it in action for most of your combat and if its really needed it might not be enough. PvPers might find it handy in team fights or XvsX+Y, {X,Y>=1} in general where you need to simmultaniously fight and stomp/revive but there is a thing called downed cleave, and with the “tanky” gyro going down in seconds, does this look good for the function gyro? And then you need another trait for it to preform its task reliably. Think about it, one gravedigger and your 30sec cd “special” mechanic is gone, and the gravedigger is recharged.

Lets consider the gravedigger. Its a spinning attack that easily crits for 10k+ without effort (statwise that is). Its primary function is to execute multiple low health targets and as such work excellent for downed cleave. It had its cool down decrease upped to a 100% for this role to really shine. We need to provide something of that caliber given that this is our continuum shift, reaper form, berserk, triple dodge or what have you. The more situational, the bigger the impact when the criteria is met. A extra dodge have lots of uses during the entire fight, especially with the dodge traits, berserking and pulsing stability is also highly useful during the engagement and a necromancer have to use its reaper form or die trying to get into it (oh dear but when they do…). We need for someone to go down on either side to even show our new mechanic. Of course it should be strong, it might even have to be very strong because thats its one jobb. So massively reducing the cooldown (10 sec max) and limit the drones to one at a time would be a start. I might even suggest increasing the range but let the drone originate at your location to allow for reactive counterplay and increase the importance of aoe superspeed.

And this is from a pvp perspective, in pve half of the mechanic is gone. And so that impacts all of the related traits as well. Including 2 minors. And when you really need your scrapper to save you, now that its finally time for him to unveil his mechanic, consider what got your teammates down in the first place? Either you are in a low risk or a high risk situation. In a low risk situation your gyro might have no problem reviving that ally. But then a lot of the time then neither would you. Sure you might save a second or two, but the gyro wasn’t really needed was it? It was more fancy sure but on a total combat contribution how high would you rate it?

Then we have the high risk situation. Okay all bells are ringing, your allies are down and this isn’t just a matter of timesaving anymore its full whipe alert. But then something managed to take down a few geared characters (a situation where the gyro actually would be needed). So if it can take down that player how long is your frail little bot going to last? This is where 30 seconds of cooldown does not help. Who knows it might actually revive someone but in situations where the gyro is needed (not only usable, needed) the odds of another revive being needed within 30 seconds (or heck 45 sec if it works like the utilities does) is not insignificant.

In the end you need to fulfill a few criteria for it to even be theoretically usable, and then the actual contribution is filtered through layers of potential potential potential potential uses.

All in all a large reduction in cool down is a good way to start. And that change need to happen before the last beta weekend.

Im sorry for sounding grumpy, but know that i am a support oriented character who like the goal of this thing, i always run a duo with another player so the amount of time that i can even use it is above average. So if i am skeptical, imagine then players who do not have the luxury of always having a potential potential potential use?

And yes eles i do feel sorry for your singularities.

Sorry, i rant when i am tired.

And we were specifically discussing the addition of the function gyro to the f key, not the rest of the skills.

Frankly I think it’s a very cool addition, and one I will be using a lot in PvP + world vs world, and possibly a little bit in PvE. The mediocre it was another way of saying it’s not great but it’s not terrible either.

wolfyrik.2017:

Morfedel.4165:

And what you missed is that this only added and took nothing whatsoever away. All it did was give options. And even revives area at times necessary in PvE, saving you time to fight while you’re function gyro does the revive.

Furthermore you can trait your gyros to have effects upon death.

So really its at least mediocre if not good. Boring whatsoever wrong with it

It does take away really, it takes away two minor slots which could be better used. Scrapper only gets one BWE. One. The terrible, terrible traits design which plagues engineer, worthless traits in the core class and worthless traits in the Elite spec and the only chance we get to show what the problem is, will be the last. No more testing. We potentially go from major issues in the BWE to launch.

So yes, bad design now, takes away a lot. Poor options are not really options, they’re just a waste of everyones time.

And we know all this before even playing it. That’s funny.

Also there are many people excited about the function gyro. Not everyone agrees with you.

Why don’t we just wait and see before passing judgement.

wolfyrik.2017:

You missed quite a bit actually. You missed the part where the traits for Function Gyro only affecting recompletion of res and finishing actions. Which means that the function gyro and it’s connected traits have almost no use whatsoever for the vast majority of time in game. For any and all PvE content they’ll barely ever be active or active when they’ll be actually be useful. The ICDs make sure of it.

You missed the part where Function G has a 30 second cooldown, reducing how useful it is tremendously.

You missed the part where it has HP, which means that as soon as it’s launched any opponent can simply cleave it, you and the downed player it’s interacting with, so it will do precisely nothing.

You missed the part where superspeed looks good on paper “oooh it has the word super in it, it must be good” but in reality is a very brief speedboost and little more. Half the time it’s bugged and only provides the same speed boost as swiftness. In actual combat, it really does very little, especially since speed no longer affects leap distance.

You missed the part where the ICD on the traits, severely limit ability to stack out side of extremely focused builds.

You missed the fact that, even though you yourself admitted to it, in order to be any use whatsoever, you have to use specific traits, which locks you out of other build options. If you don’t want your first two minors to be completely worthelss, you have to skip out on 6 other traits. The minor traits in specific tree should be useful to the character, no matter what other traits they take in the tree. If that isn’t the case, you’ve either provided worthless traits or showehorned people into a specific build, in which case, why even bother having the 6 other traits?

In short, the first two minors are worthless outside of PvP/WvW, not even that great in PvP/WvW and shoe-horn you into specific builds if you don’t want them to completely suck. As for the gyros, most of them aren’t worth taking over kits regardless. We simply can’t afford the utility slots and kits provide not only alternate weapons, but more utility and many of the same effects.

And what you missed is that this only added and took nothing whatsoever away. All it did was give options. And even revives area at times necessary in PvE, saving you time to fight while you’re function gyro does the revive.

Furthermore you can trait your gyros to have effects upon death.

So really its at least mediocre if not good. Boring whatsoever wrong with it

Its national talk like a pirate day, so we should get a pirate party in our favorite pirate city!

Shadow of Azrael.1205:

TsukuZankaze.6951:

Bunker spec and has synergy with hammer 3 with its toolbelt.

Gyro is still HORRIBLE compared to turret:

Gyro main heal 6790 hp every 44 seconds vs turrent’s 6080 hp every 15sec +780/21sec on toolbelt.
Water field uptime is relativly the same, but you will get more combo leaps over time with turret.

And some condi removal is probably more usefull then a tiny bit of protection.

Gyros are mobile, turrets aren’t

Up until now, my main has been Mesmer. Hasn’t even been a contest. I play all of the classes a little bit to what extent or another and I have my second and third favorite city centre and center. But it’s always been Mesmer that I played the vast majority of the time.

But now, I am really loving the Revenant, the reaper, the daredevil, and the scrapper. For the first in quite some time I’m really interested and playing other classes because of these new Elite specializations. Who knows, maybe I will even love the druid.

Its going to be a lot harder for me to decide what to play once HoT comes out lol

The elite may come in very handy when dealing with mesmers and thieves.

In other news, the sky is falling, the sky is falling!

Revives are necessary in pve as well, especially considering hot is a tougher environment than most other parts of the PvE game, and raids will be even tougher. So it will still have some utility in PvE

apharma.3741:

Morfedel.4165:

The rest of the classes are getting elite specs, refreshing interest in them as well, so I don’t think its going to be as completely one-sided as you think it will be.

“Tempest here, I’d like a word in this dark alley….”

I didn’t say ALL of them were as worthy, I was just saying that there are more new options out there than just revenant.

Nilix.2170:

Basaltface.2786:

Nilix.2170:

Brace for ICD. Just saying.

dont jynx it..

I’m sorry but I really can’t see this being something allowed to happen without an ICD.
It could be a decent duration for the Super Speed but I don’t think they’ll let this be stackable.

Especially seeing how we have a Lightning Field + TRIPLE LEAP finisher on a single weapon.

Out of combat super speed is no faster than swiftness. In combat it is as fast as swiftness out of combat. I don’t see that as being so game breaking when you have to work to combine lightning fields with this maneuver, it’s a nice addition, I just don’t see where in ICD would be necessary

The rest of the classes are getting elite specs, refreshing interest in them as well, so I don’t think its going to be as completely one-sided as you think it will be.

mesmers with glamour skills and the temporal enchanter trait can grant superspeed too.

Tyaen.5148:

Morfedel.4165:

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

HoT is more difficult than most content, and raids are coming as well.

And Fractals were more difficult than what came before. They didn’t invalidate PvE builds.

I wasn’t arguing that, lol, what I’m saying is really most of the classes need help with pve in most cases. Sure, there are exceptions, but generally pve is the least challenging of the modes.

But HoT and raids will be much more challenging, so saying it needed it the least… well, maybe. maybe not.

tobascodagama.2961:

Re Sneak Gyro being visible: so are Shadow Refuge and Veil.

Yes, but those two can’t be destroyed by opponents.

Tyaen.5148:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

1/3.

And frankly, PvE needed the least help.

HoT is more difficult than most content, and raids are coming as well.

Knighthonor.4061:

This may not have been intentional and could have been overlooked.

But a Random AI that stealths allies could be really bad for SPvP since you wil lose capture point progress while totally not in your control of doing so.

just saying. Maybe you may want to redesign this elite skill with that in mind.

Well, A: the skill is voluntary. You wouldnt just use it any time. B: I’m sure I saw that the purge gyro can be “shattered” to create a poison field, so maybe this can be for another effect as well.

EDIT: nix that, I just went back and looked, and that shatter is a toolbelt skill, while the elite’s is the reveal. I thought it might be a bit like the turret replacement skills, guess not.

Arantheal.7396:

Kodama.6453:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Opinions.
I for example find it extremely satisfying.

No, not opinions. In half of the game it’s use is minimal.

>Half
>PvE
Welp, in the other 2/3rds it’s extremely awesome.

Extremely awesome. Well, it seems like the functional gyroscope is destroyable. If so and it is dying as fast as our turrets, it won’t be able to deliver just a single stomp. ^^

Jupp, that’s the last concern I have. If they tell me they’re indestructible, but interruptable I’m a happy engi.

You’re trying to stomp someone and the enemy has an ally trying to stop that? F and go fight guy #2. Trying to revive someone and an enemy is trying to stop you? F and go fight enemy #1.

In other words, although the gyro is destructable, in small scales you may well be able to give the gyro time to do its work.

In an aoe rich environment though that may be another story.

Nyth.3492:

Manuhell.2759:

Can’t see what’s the point of the Sneak Gyro. It stealths people…and then gives the location away with the gyro itself, as that is still visible. It essentially depends on your enemies not noticing it.

Let’s see how it works out first.
The Gyro being visible is a weakness, but that doesn’t make the ability useless.

- The cooldown could be short.
- There could just be the engi in the cloak field, there could be a whole zerg in the cloak field, they don’t know.
- The gyro might disappear long before the actual stealth fades.
- Insert a few more reasons.

good point. wait and see. Tomorrow’s poi will hopefully enlighten.

Hm, I wonder if gyros by themselves will auto aggro? I mean, what if the stealth gyro lasts as long as its fuel, however long that is, and if it follows you, and doesnt aggro, it could make, for example, running through Arah a snap.

But geez, its only going to help in pvp and wvw if your enemies don’t have much aoe or cleave.

Kodama.6453:

Morfedel.4165:

Manuhell.2759:

Can’t see what’s the point of the Sneak Gyro. It stealths people…and then gives the location away with the gyro itself, as that is still visible. It essentially depends on your enemies not noticing it.

Aside from that, the article mentions about gyro that “If traited, they’ll explode in a larger area while stunning foes.”
Where is that trait? We have a full list below (3 minor, 9 others) and there is nothing doing that.

Wait, do we know for a fact the gyro will be visible?

Yes, they stated the gyroscope will stay visible.
So, what do we have so far: Seems like we get AI which is limited by fuel AND is destroyable -> useless in PvE, new class mechanic is about rezzing and stomping -> useless in PvE

Seems like we shouldn’t go PvE as scrappers….

Yeah, I completely missed the visible part. wow.

But I wouldnt completely discount them for pve; after all, sometimes allies do go down even in pve, and being able to revive them while doing something else is very nice methinks, esp since it doesnt take a skill slot, unlike the search and rescue of rangers.

Nilix.2170:

Morfedel.4165:

Manuhell.2759:

Can’t see what’s the point of the Sneak Gyro. It stealths people…and then gives the location away with the gyro itself, as that is still visible. It essentially depends on your enemies not noticing it.

Aside from that, the article mentions about gyro that “If traited, they’ll explode in a larger area while stunning foes.”
Where is that trait? We have a full list below (3 minor, 9 others) and there is nothing doing that.

Wait, do we know for a fact the gyro will be visible?

Yep, it said so right on the thing
Sneak Gyro
Deploy a sneak gyro to provide stealth to nearby allies.
The scrapper’s elite utility provides a pulsing cloak field around it veiling you and your allies from enemies. The gyro itself remains visible.

Wow, that’s…. very questionable. Still, the tool belt part is great for anti stealth, but with the gyro visible… ???

So this is what I’m thinking:

Firearms traits: 3, 3, 1
Tools: 2, 2, whatever
Scrapper: ??, Mass Momentum, Adaptive Armor

Tanky, fury-stacking might stacking thief hunting goodness using a flame thrower. Probably wear either Knights or captains gear; obviously will wait to be sure until we see some actual numbers

not sure about runes yet.

Manuhell.2759:

Can’t see what’s the point of the Sneak Gyro. It stealths people…and then gives the location away with the gyro itself, as that is still visible. It essentially depends on your enemies not noticing it.

Aside from that, the article mentions about gyro that “If traited, they’ll explode in a larger area while stunning foes.”
Where is that trait? We have a full list below (3 minor, 9 others) and there is nothing doing that.

Wait, do we know for a fact the gyro will be visible?

Bindaeyen.9613:

Arantheal.7396:

Calcifire.1864:

as someone who doesn’t PvP or WvW, I’m underwhelmed as hell.

the big profession mechanic is utterly useless in PvE unless there is someone dying nearby, and the elite is purely a PvP ability considering how insanely situational stealth is in PvE for non-thieves.

consider that for the elite mechanic revenants get a new legend, necros get a new death shroud, mesmers get to save-scum, the ability to rez/finish someone at range is so situational outside of PvP that unless HoT adds a LOT of finishable enemies like the toxic alliance, it may as well not exist.

We have no idea on the hammer cd’s & power-scaling so you may want to wait before calling it useless.
Also, do you remember the toxic alliance? I wouldn’t be surprised if you meet a lot of mordrem in the future that need to be stomped

They’re talking about the stealth elite and the function gyro being near useless, not the entire spec. I’m not sure about the elite, but the gyro is certainly near pointless in PvE from what we understand of it. It makes almost zero difference in open world, and if its useful in raids half of its utility is still going to be useless.

Not to mention that they MENTIONED Toxic Alliance in their post. Assuming there’ll be a bunch of mobs to finish off is wishful thinking at best considering they seem to have ran away from that mechanic in PvE. Was there even any in the beta yet? Maybe that mounted boss from the story…? I don’t recall running into a single one.

It’s a heavily PvP skewed mechanic change, moreso than any other class’ and that’s extremely disappointing.

Stealth isn’t entirely worthless in pve, but granted, it isnt as useful; in those cases, just take mortar or supply crate instead. It isnt like you have to take every skill the spec offers. Only the revenant is so locked down

Huh; Mass Momentum with Juggernaut? I wonder how much might we will be able to passively stack now