Guild Wars 2

It would be fun to have both new pets…or dyes for my existing pets! I want a hot-pink polar bear! Or a Chartruse spider!

I already vendor sold all my non-infused ascended rings (I had a whole bank-slot full of them and decided I was done with them). I only keep infused-ascended rings now (and still have enough of those to put 4 each on 8 characters with 10 still in my bank).

I would love to know if the infusions that are coming next week would at least be removable….because then I could take the infusions out of all the ones I have in my bank and combine those into higher level infusions. (10 +5’s would make 5 +6’s which would make 2 +7s with a +6 left over).

I would also love to know this, because wow, that would make it a serious grind to get to +10 infusions then…because if you ever use the +5 or +8 or any of the other ones you are effectively starting over.

I have over 1700 fractals run, but that was over the last year. having to do that many just for 1 +10 infusion seems…really high.

Fafnir.5124:

Anet reset everyone to zero and end this stupid debate. I am confident in my fotm abilities to get as high as I want found levels 50-80 boring I welcome the new content + better rewards. I really hope the lore of fotm is advanced by the update. Instabilities giving more insight into each fotm level.

I would LOVE if the lore was better….what is the story with the uncategorized fractal? Some say it is the future of Rata Sum, others say this happened in the past (not sure how that could be since the asura were underground in the past)….What caused that lone crazy Asura to be alone with his Cat-robots!

-J

One fear I have is the discouragement this is causing with the upper level fractal runners. Many of my friends are already saying “why should I bother with leveling up the new fractals when everything I did in the old ones was for nothing. What happens when they announce Fractals 3.0, I might as well stay with the herd because that is where the reset will go to.” Followed by “it looks like all rewards can be gained at 30 except for a tonic. I’ll probably just do 30’s for the rewards. And join a champ train in frostgorge with the rest of my time.”

Granted, that is just “sad talk” but still, It is this discouragement that bothers me. Now granted, the competitive bug will mostly like strike many of us again and we will be right there climbing the levels. But there will still be others who will stay discouraged. I will say that this discouragement does make players start looking at other games more (like EQnext). Taking away even perceived equity has a way of demoralizing players and losing loyalty.

phys.7689:

JMar.3254:

JMar.3254:

Let leaderboards be based off of highest rank done.

If the top level players go into 50, and finish it the first day, then the content is a joke and unnecessary reset. If they fail 50 and have to start at 38, 40 whatever to practice and work their way up, then they will. No reason in unnessarily resetting levels.

*Credit to Weth

Nobody? Too good of an idea?

told you, its not a good idea, because you havent completed all challenges

In fact i think the leaderboards should essentially be how many different instabilities you beat, or total fractals beat with each instability. max level is really shallow and shows nothing.

say there are 20 instabilities, and 13 different fractals (if there are 3 new levels and 2 new bosses) that would be 160 levels, and only the most hardcore would be at the top that board. I guess the flaw would be the bad rng on getting the fractals and challenges you need, so ehhh.

leaderboards suck

I agree, unfortunately I don’t think they set up the leaderboards that way because otherwise the personal reward level wouldn’t matter. Someone could be PRL 80 and still be on the bottom of the leaderboard because they didn’t do all the instabilities in all the levels…it really wouldn’t matter that they could “jump ahead” because the leaderboard would be based off of achievements (within the levels) rather than progression. This would have all been a moot argument! It probably would have been a far better system of doing leaderboards for this type of content.

The fact that they had to set everyone down to 30 for the leaderboards means unfortunately that it has something to do with progression within the levels and leaving people able to jump to 50 immediately would have given them an unfair advantage.

VOLKON.1290:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Just wanted to let y’all know that I’m done responding. I’ve said my piece. I stand by titles and humorous town clothes are the solution to this mess.

I see this thread closing soon. Just wanted to wish you all luck in your endeavors, and that the animosity and toxicity of this thread is let go after a while. Our community has literally been fractured, and I just hope we can fix it.

Peace and love to y’all,

Jaya

It’s no more fractured than every other debate on the forums, and will be completely forgotten within a week of the Fractured release.

The ultimate truth has been revealed.

But I think that is part of the point some of us are trying to make. There was a huge uproar when they removed TA Up Up, there was a huge uproar about the new tequatl, there tends to be huge uproars when these things happen but then people just accept it.

We should strive under the new collaborative development ideas that the devs keep throwing around to make arguments about why they shouldn’t do some of these things in the hopes that maybe the next group won’t get screwed.

I have said time and time again in these threads that I think it is too late for this LS update on Tuesday. The changes are happening. But maybe we can help the next group to lose something.

But I can see it now…when they remove the next thing…there will be people screaming “but where were you guys when they removed fractal levels and didn’t do anything for those guys? The Fractal guys didn’t get anything, neither should you.”

This is why we are having the discussion. Regardless of whether or not you want compensation or don’t want to give it.

Do we think it is right that ANET did this? Is it okay for ANET to wipe player equity (regardless of if you believe fractal level is equity) and finally What should they do instead (for next time).?

The whole idea of the new fractals system is to get more players doing fractals.

They are re-doing how you get agony resistance and making it so you get a little bit every level…because one barrier to people before was spending the ecto and fractal relics to infuse items.

They are making it easier to get to level 50…because another barrier last time was that difficulty went up significantly once you got over 30…it scaled fairly slowly to 28, but 30 was a lot harder than 28, 38 was way harder than 30 and 48 made me feel like running 28’s and 38s was “relaxing”. (don’t even get any of us started on the 50+ difficulty’s because it continued to scale like this).

They implemented a leaderboard to try and get the PVP’rs and WvW’rs (who like leaderboards and scales of talent and a feeling of competition). The leaderboard will be pretty meaningless until they open above 50, but this is probably their reasoning.

The set all this at 30 instead of 50 to get the majority of the players (who were sitting at the 28 level in fractals)…

They implemented the instabilities because these “handicaps” went over very well in the queens pavilion champ challenges…and they want to get those players involved who loved that…there will no doubt be achievements tied to this as well (get through a 34 fractal without dying once = achievement, etc).

I welcome the changes, and I will welcome the new players. We will all need to learn the new tactics with the new fractals and we will all be one happy family.

But I don’t have to like losing my former levels…it is work lost and it is equity lost. I think ANET should make some sort of effort in appeasing these players, just like I think they should have made an effort to do so for past losses, and like I think they should make appeasement for any future equity lost by any group…even groups that I don’t associate with.
Equity lost is equity lost…regardless of whether that number meant anything to anyone else…the number represents hours and months worth of work to someone…it meant something to them.

Kal Spiro.9745:

VOLKON.1290:

Kal Spiro.9745:

VOLKON.1290:

Fungalfoot.7213:

VOLKON.1290:

Two questions for you.

1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?

2. What the heck is a “squish”?

It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.

http://wow.joystiq.com/tag/Item-Squish/

There’s a difference between nerfing areas that were being abused (for want of a better word) and recognizing the achievements people made in content that is being removed.

SAB World 2. It’s the same situation. People achieved getting through. Then they changed the content making it easier for others to get through, but those who got through while it was very hard got nothing to show for their accomplishment.

Same situation. No recognition.

No, not the same. SAB world 2 was bugged. The difficulty was higher than they intended. While a select few made it through before the fix, it was never intended to be that tough.

Fractals to 50 was meant to be tough from the outset. A few excelled, as expected, while many didn’t make it that far, also as expected. This is a situation where 31 – 50 is being replaced, so why not recognize the few that excelled under intentionally tough circumstances? I won’t get a title, but I won’t lose anything either because I hadn’t earned it so it doesn’t bother me in the least.

Yeah, it was super tough and people weren’t intended to get through it. 51 – 80, people weren’t intended to get through it, but they did.

More importantly, what happens if the new content is significantly more difficult to complete than it ever was before because of the new mechanic.

Should people be recognized for completing inferior content?

In that vein, everyone should be leveled down to 1 (which would have probably made me happier, but a lot more people angy). Level 1-30 changes significantly….new fractals, no more odd fractals without any boss monster. Now you ALWAYS end with a boss fractal AND fractals are weighted so that easier ones always appear first and harder ones later…which means you can’t get lucky anymore and hit Swamp / water / ascalon.

According to your logic, since the experience is now different and the new way is technically harder, why should people who rushed this week to 30 (and infused their rings) gain an advantage over people that didn’t? Shouldn’t everything be reset?

phys.7689:

Fungalfoot.7213:

VOLKON.1290:

Two questions for you.

1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?

2. What the heck is a “squish”?

It sends the message that their pain is somehow greater than the pain of the many people who have gotten screwed by previous nerfs. It offers them special snowflake status and that’s the wrong move to make here.

http://wow.joystiq.com/tag/Item-Squish/

mistakes of the past shouldnt be repeated. Just because i suffered in the past doesnt mean new people should.

Overall i think it needs to be examined, if they are going to make this evolving world, and sometimes remove things people feel attached to, or earned in some fashion, what types of ways can they mitigate this, or deal with it

Im looking at this also from this perspective. The Dev’s have run out of time to do any real changes to Tuesday patch, but what we discuss here could have ramifications for future patchs. Maybe they weren’t listening when old things were removed without providing any sort of consideration for players….maybe they are not now. But maybe they are and maybe we can prevent a future pain for players in a future update.

VOLKON.1290:

Korossive.7085:

Wow this thread just exploded.

When will you realize no decision maker reads anything here. Another hollow post by the forum rep is the max you’ll get.

I support you, but you’ll lose. Company decision.

Nah, they read it. They also have to take into consideration the big picture, what’s best for the game as a whole as opposed to the vocal minority that often is the loudest in the forums. Often if you feel you’re directly affected in a negative way, be it real or imagined, it can be easy to lose sight of the big picture.

This is true which is why I pointed out several things that I am pretty sure will not change (as much as I don’t like them). Level 50 hard cap (for now), new instabilities at 30. We need to work within the confines of the current patch.

My analogy was that they made a pizza…we cannot change that aspect into any other food. But maybe we can have them adjust some of the ingredients…or add ingredients…but it will stay a pizza and we cannot turn it into ice-cream.

The conversation has gotten less toxic and more constructive…lets keep it up! (and I do believe that the dev’s are reading, but they are skimming, which means if we stay on topic they are more likely to read fully.

Karma is a good point though….I will miss my 10K Karma from doing a low level run with friends. It helps me buy LOTS of stones for mystic forging and crafting ascended items….
However, as someone else put out there already, there are ways of getting karma….and with the new system it doesn’t sound like they are awarding that Karma bonus anymore anyways.

Manuhell.2759 What do you suggest then?

Estriella Faerie.4029:

For a more middle to long term:
We want fractals to be what it was said it would, something “endless” (well, at least high enough), so that we can challenge ourselves to our limits, not limits imposed on us by stuff or arbitrary decision from devs. Old level 80 was clearly harder than lower levels, but it was still far from being the limits of top players. This has been shown by numerous videos, where bosses at 80 got defeated by subpar teams (DnT duo-ed dredge suit, we killed shaman while naked on alts, …). So please, let us go as far as we can, don’t cap us on such a low cap like before.

This would also give some meaning to the leaderboard that is being implemented. The only meaningful thing this could record (not dependent on random map or specific team composition) is highest level beaten, and it can only mean something if there is no cap on the level you can open (or everyone will be 1st, tied at the cap).

I agree. And the developers did say that they plan to open up more levels in time….I have a feeling (again, speculation) that they had some hard limits in coding initially here which is why they are capping it at 50 for now….it might have even been an issue with the scaling not working properly (we know they have been constantly tweaking scaling in all areas over the past few months).

I admit to being very disappointed that they didn’t open up past 50 yet, but I am still hoping that this is a quick transition while they work out the bugs above 50 and that they might open up higher levels yet prior to the new year (because face it, a leaderboard does not make sense on something that ends at a finite level). The fact that they are including a leaderboard actually makes me think that the plan truly is to make this infinite…and challenge players to see how high they can go. But like I said, I bet they ran into technical difficulties in implementing it right now.

Here’s hoping I’m right! (although I will also admit, with my new schedule, and baby on the way…the odds of me getting back up to my previous levels is pretty slim)…but I WILL enjoy partying with people to do 70+ again!

I am re-posting again, because the arguing without constructive feedback is continuing.

from directly above but shortened for brevity

Once again, I am seeing no constructive feedback. This thread will get locked again unless we move the conversation towards constructive.

No one needs to argue about how people got to 80. It was done. People are at 80, in your own words…deal with it.

The conversation needs to be constructive, and needs to address the problem….people are losing levels…this is equity lost by the players. Everyone 30+ is losing those levels, you are all in the same boat….it hurts more the more levels you are losing.

So now, what do we want Devs to do about it. Keep in mind, that there is no major re-coding going to be done prior to Tuesday. It takes 4 months to code a living story, keep that in your context…this is a fact that has been repeated by the ANET team.

Some things that are not going to be avoided. Hard cap at 50 (those at 80 WILL lose 30 levels no matter what), new fractal difficulties started at 30. These things will have been coded over the previous months. They designed the content this way, it cant be re-designed over-night. (They made a pizza, they cannot turn it into ice-cream…but maybe we can change one or two ingredients).

Please, stop the accusations and the name-calling and the arguing over things that already happened…and start to get constructive on both sides (those for it and those against it….if you are for the changes, what compromises are you willing to make, if you are against it, where will you move to>)

Patrikan offered up conversation about unique titles…that is constructive, lets keep going down that path…

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Already told the maybe best and simplest solution is unique titles that are soulbound.

Easy to implement and everyone gets a title for each 10 levls completed so ( 40 , 50 , 60,70,80) a remark here you should have all titles if you are at 80 or so so you can choose because sometimes some titles are cooler than others.

I think most of us would be ok if it’s a unique 1 time reward titel as with the QP in pvp

As those Titles are souldbound even the ones that leveld multiple chars pretty high will get somthing on each charcater..

So that ppl that have multiples on 0-30 don’t suffer you can even start adding titles from 10-30.

That’s something…I still feel a title is not enough, but I think this could be something still implemented fairly easily in the time allotted.

ANET is big on not giving people certain advantages, which is why I think unique skins and titles go a long way…no advantages, but still gives credit to accomplishments done.

Once again, I am seeing no constructive feedback. This thread will get locked again unless we move the conversation towards constructive.

No one needs to argue about how people got to 80. It was done. People are at 80, in your own words…deal with it.

This affects people at 50 as much as it affects people at 80, both are losing levels…Patrikan, you also have to admit this hurts people at 50…you are not alone in your pain…we know that you are losing more levels than someone at 50…it doesn’t need to be re-pointed out…it adds nothing to the conversation and continually drags the conversation into the “you shouldn’t have gone beyond 50” territory.

The conversation needs to be constructive, and needs to address the problem….people are losing levels…this is equity lost by the players. Everyone 30+ is losing those levels, you are all in the same boat….it hurts more the more levels you are losing.

So now, what do we want Devs to do about it. Keep in mind, that there is no major re-coding going to be done prior to Tuesday. It takes 4 months to code a living story, keep that in your context…this is a fact that has been repeated by the ANET team.

Some things that are not going to be avoided. Hard cap at 50 (those at 80 WILL lose 30 levels no matter what), new fractal difficulties started at 30. These things will have been coded over the previous months. They designed the content this way, it cant be re-designed over-night. (They made a pizza, they cannot turn it into ice-cream…but maybe we can change one or two ingredients).

I have offered numerous things to try and get the discussion going on a constructive path. I’d like to hear others from both sides, maybe if a developer is listening, they can see something that they can still do. Arguing back and forth about nonsense does not help them in any way.

Please, stop the accusations and the name-calling and the arguing over things that already happened…and start to get constructive on both sides (those for it and those against it….if you are for the changes, what compromises are you willing to make, if you are against it, where will you move to>)

JMar.3254:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

JMar.3254:

zerotwo.4731:

This is a good move. Ive done daily fractal runs, when I can, since its release. Bumping us down to 30 is ok with me. I would have no drive to do anything but 48 if they didn’t. Since its possible the content will be more difficult it only makes sense to learn the new challenges and earn your way back to the top.

Put instabilities at 50.

nope at 81 since it’s the only hardcap that ever existed… putting it at 50 basicaly tells me that I should have not Cried about gw becoming a geartreadmill ( because after january pach you needed gear instead of skill to advance ) butmaking my progress look like I did exploit ( wich i did not) because they’re making it unable for others to get there.

I still suggest 50 because there was an obvious soft cap at 50.

I am not saying you exploited at all, you put the effort to go to 80, so if they chose to put it at 80, I would still be okay with that, more so than putting it at 30.

Personally though, I think it should be 50. At least we can both agree it should not be 30.

The argument over putting new content at 80 or 50 was lost the moment developers looked at statistics. You will not win that argument.

It will not be at 80 because less than .001% of people made it to 80. I would be willing to be there are less than 100 players out of the millions who are there.
It will not be at 50 for the exact same reason. 99% of players stopped at 28 because that was as high as you could get with minimal effort. You didn’t need to infuse anything to be there, and you got all the rewards of the higher levels.

If you were to make a work of art…would you hide it in the middle of the Gobi desert (level 80), or even put it in the harshest Ghetto of LA? (50). No, your going to put it in downtown New York City (30).

That argument was lost before they even started coding…there is no way either of those is happening.

I agree. I would love to see something that I could buy with Pristines.

I see a lot of posts about end-game content. I also see a lot of posts asking for something special to grind for (legendary’s etc). I have also heard the Dev’s say that they do not want to introduce a gear treadmill. I have also heard the complaint about lore.

What about providing content that requires work to get, is special but doesn’t provide a distinct advantage?

What about a quest that took days or weeks but in the end provided the guardian with a choice of color to change their Aegis shield into (so you could have a red, or black, or some other color shield)

A quest that a ranger could go on for a unique pet (like a rock-dog, or gryphon).

A quest that a necro could go on to become a vampire (you have fangs that everyone can see when they look at you).

A quest that a player could go on that would provide a glow to your backpiece (want a glowing quiver or book….do this quest).

Each of these quests could be tied to some lore within tyria. Each of these would be a bit of a grind to accomplish (maybe even requiring of taking notes…because there WILL be a quiz half way through the quest).

Maybe even the quest requires you solo some champion to accomplish as part of it?

All of these quests would provide some sort of unique rewards (the list is actually endless) that does not grant an advantage of any means over another player (no gear treadmill) but at the same time would be things that players would want to do simply for the “look” it provided.

Other examples: A Mermaid quest that would allow you to gain “gills” and now you don’t show your water-breather underwater.

A quest of the divine, where you end up with angel-wings…or perhaps the new angelic finisher.

A quest that once completed allows you to fight looking like a quaggan (hero of the quaggans) similar to the watchwork tonic.

I just feel this would accomplish many birds with a single set of stones. You could tell lore, give end-game content, and grant unique rewards that people can grind for without it feeling like a grind.

I’ll admit. If I look at the content objectively, I like that they are adding new fractals and am excited to try the new ones. I like that they are increasing the rewards. I like that they are making it more accessible to more people so I don’t have to wait 30 minutes for a PUG. I like that every level will have a boss fight and bonus chest (never did odd’s anyways).

I wont be quitting the game over my level loss, and I will be playing the new fractals. Will I get to the level that I once was? Even if I could, I don’t have the time to do it again. If I did somehow achieve it again, it would be many months (years maybe) down the road. I have a baby on the way (late feb). THAT will be my life, not some game.

That is part of why I am so upset, and that is part of why I argued for a lesser reduction in levels based off of previous levels…it had nothing to do with the “plebians” as someone put it and more to do with simply not taking ALL of my levels away and sharing the pain. If their current cap is 50 and they want no one at 50, at least get me close to 50 so I don’t have to spend months leveling again and if you are taking my levels away, you should do it to everyone.

Isslair.4908:

I hope they’ll remove the charr turning in ascalon whatsoever. If I wanted to play a charr I’d roll a charr. This part of fractals is really stupid.

I kind of think its fun to turn into a charr for a quick fight. It adds variety to the game.

Leaderboard for Fractals seems silly. I also have no idea what they could be keeping track of for a leaderboard. Highest level attained? (everyone will be at 50), fastest time? (depends on your fractal set), amount of deaths per level attained? (eventually will be 0 for all levels), over-all deaths vs kills? (gives advantage to AOE attacks and luck in getting dredge or ascalon),

I truly find leaderboards on fractals to be an answer to a request that was never asked nor fathomed. They would be better off providing leaderboards for tequatl runs.

Everyone arguing back and forth about the 50+ (those both for and against). I am not seeing anything lately from you guys except “don’t do it.” or “screw you guys, levels are irrelevent” This update is coming out on next Tuesday. Even if the developers wanted to change something drastic, there is not enough time. I agree with the 50+ guys, I agree that this sucks, I agree that you shouldn’t lose your levels, I agree that this is not fair, it is happening whether we like it or not.

Complaining about how much it sucks brings nothing to the table. Constructive feedback will be received far more than “this sucks, don’t do it.” or shooting down every other post that doesn’t say “leave everything as it is”. Give some constructive feedback. You ARE losing the levels….I AM LOSING my levels (I am also above 50). The new level cap WILL be 50. Is there some compromise that you would consider? Some of my suggestions would be hard to implement in the time given…but I am trying to come up with something that fits into the new constraints that might be possible in the two development days remaining.

As another option Fractals are already instanced….what about Fractals 2.0? What I mean is, keep the current fractals, add the new fractals. When you go to the portal in Lion’s arch, it first asks you “Original Fractals or Fractals 2.0” and you click on which one you want. Fractals 2.0 has the leaderboard, the new rewards, the new way of advancing….everything announced in the LS. Original Fractals is exactly as it is now. Anyone playing Fractals 2.0 starts over at level 1 on Fractals 2.0 but retains their level within the Original Fractals. You can choose which one to enter at least until they can get things merged.

For the guys arguing against me and several of the others losing levels….what compromises do you see that would satisfy you other than “quit QQ’ing and deal with it”

Maybe a better compromise would have been to work the averages. Make everyone lose something, but still keep a difference between players:

If the majority of players are at the 28 level mark:

Those 10 and below, drop to 0 and start over.

Those 10-19 drop to 10.

those 10-29 drop to 20

those 30-39 drop to 30

those 40-80 drop to 40 (50+ still take the biggest hit but at least they are still shown to have something for their time and effort, or maybe put the 50+ crowd at 45 to start to differentiate those from the – 49 crowd)

This would still put the majority of players at or slightly below 30. It would still keep the other players at about their levels from the level cap with minimal work required to get back to the new level cap (but still requiring some work on their behalf).

In the vein of my previous post I am going to mainly speak in terms of people losing 30-50 here.

My own personal problem with all of this is that I put in months of work (it is a minimum of about 40 hours to do 20 levels…but the average is probably many more hours than that when we hit bugs on the third fractal or Maw where it couldn’t be completed…PUG’s, etc.). After all of these hours of work over months of time I am being placed at the exact same level as those people that chose not to put in the work or time or effort.

People writing that we are showing Elitism or QQ’ing need to learn to have a little bit of compassion towards their fellow human. Boards are anonymous, we know…but there are human beings behind the keyboard. You cannot say that we did not lose anything…even if you believe that 50+ somehow shouldn’t have been done. Those people who are losing 20 levels are losing something that they put a minimum of 40 hours into. Compensation cannot bring that time back…and the ANET team suddenly calling these people equal to someone at level 30 is an insult.

You can get to 29 with just a set of infused rings (or non-infused rings with two versatile infusions costing 75 fractal relics each = easy requirements)….there is no commitment made. That is why the majority of players stopped there. After 29, you need to infuse your rings (or find them), or make an ascended backpiece and infuse it. After 39, you need to have infused rings, and an infused backpiece…and even then, you have to dodge Agony, and time a guard healing tomb (or several other methods) on the final Maw fractal to survive. These are all facts as to why there were less and less players at those levels above 29.

A player who was doing level 48 fractals made a commitment to do level 48 fractals. They did this in time (minimum 40 hours extra work over a 28 person) they did this in equipment (infusing rings and back piece, which cost materials and etc). You cannot suddenly claim that these people should now be equal to the guy who didn’t put in the time or commitment. Have some compassion guys(and gals)….geez, you should be able to see that this is a loss to these people…they are being told that they are not any better than the people who didn’t put in the work. And they are being told that they need to put in the work again. And I am not even talking about the 50+ crowd.

Think of it this way…at 1.5 hours a fractal set, someone at level 30 put in about 50 hours to get there…whether they did it all at once or over months does not matter…they put in the time. Someone at 50 put in almost double that time (I would argue that higher levels take longer since you cannot just rush through them, you need more strategy). This new patch calls these two groups equal. I would actually be happier if everyone lost something (like everyone lose 20 levels)…misery loves company…at least we would all be in it together.

I am trying to look at this from the developers perspective I think I understand why they set it at 30. You will get the majority of your fractals players at 30 and it is a level that is not quite so daunting for the new players. Even with the old fractals, it was a minority that went beyond 28, because that meant that you had to start really looking at your infusion slots (you wouldn’t be able to have those magicfind infusions, etc and would have to make infused rings / backpiece). So the majority of players that have done fractas probably were around the 10-28 level. They wanted to bring in new players and by putting the new content at 30 they had the most “bang for their buck” with the most people able to get to and enjoy the new content.

I believe that the down-leveling of the 30+ crowd is a compromise already made by the developers. Think about it, they were re-doing fractals in a different way, with a different form of AR advancement. They implemented a leaderboard. They would want everyone on equal footing and probably originally planned on starting everyone over at level 1. In a meeting, at least one of the dev’s pointed out that wiping out everyones levels in fractals would create a complete firestorm within the playerbase. They looked at the numbers and saw that if they let people at 30 and below keep their levels, most of the playerbase wouldn’t lose anything. They made a compromise to keep the majority of their playerbase from exploding all over the forums.

Its too late to make a major change, there are two development days until the patch. This LS update has been worked on for 4 months…its too late. As of Tuesday, odds are, we will be level 30 and lost literally months of work (some of us can only do 1 fractal run a week, because not everyone has 3 hours to do a single thing in an evening). They may be able to put something quick in as far as compensation (query everyone that leveled above 30 and give them some extra +1 AR infusions or some champ boxes)…but odds are the major changes are already coded, already done. Even if they now realize their mistake, it is too late to do anything but a quick fix.

Maybe we need to look at it more from this perspective. Again, without verification from the dev team this is all subjecture, but this is what I think anyways.

I honestly think that what bothers me the most about this thread is simply the lack of ANET involvement.

People are getting really angry (I admit, I myself did). And not a single post to at least acknowledge that they are still reading this. We can debate each other until we are blue in the face (or sore fingers) and it does nothing regarding the actual game.

I admit to being hopeful about the game because of the collaborative development, but that does mean that when a discussion gets heated (because of people being passionate about something) someone with authority really should stop in and at least say something.

a sentence like “we ARE reading this thread and both sides of the argument” would probably go a long way towards making people feel less helpless in ANET enacting this change (and as such, reduce anger and increase constructive discussion). As is, I feel like we lost them long ago…and now it is just 14 more pages of two groups going back and forth like spitting at each other in a rainstorm.

READ ONLY BOLD IF YOU WANT BRIEF

Who cares about infinite or not infinite…honestly. They knew how to code a hard cap…heck, they added one at 80 after people already got to 81…they could have just as easily made it 50 and that would have stopped all further progression of people beyond 50. They did not do that. People could keep progressing beyond 50.

Here are the facts: average fractal run is 1.5 to 2 hours. 3 or 4 hours with a PUG. People put in a LOT of hours to get these levels. It doesn’t matter if you are 33 or 48 or 81, you are LOSING those hours of gameplay and progression. It will take you a LOT of hours to get them back (at my current schedule I am looking at Months to get to 50 and never getting my old levels back because of new cap. I had much more time (unemployed) when I got those levels. I can maybe get in 1-2 fractal runs a week at most right now).

People saying it is not fair we get to keep levels because we didn’t earn those levels with the new content. Well, neither did the people 30 or below. Why punish a single group of people, why not all of them?…and especially those that are running fractals all this week to get to 30 quick before the switch.

With MF, EVERYONE was punished. I personally loved the change because I would much rather run around in BIS gear than my stupid magicfind gear which maybe got me 1 more yellow than non-MF gear…and actually this increased my MF in dungeons since I never ran MF gear in dungeons. The equivalent to what they are doing to fractals would have been simply deleting all MF gear from only the players who had the most MF…but then giving everyone account bound MF and leaving the people who had only some MF…because those people with some MF need to catch up to the people who had a lot.

It makes sense for them to put the new content at 30. It does. Most of the player base was sitting around level 28 (pure speculation, from looking at my own group of friends…where most were at 28). This gives you the most bang-for-your-buck for your update of fractals. Putting the new levels at 50 would just frustrate the majority of players.

Those above 30 prior to the patch were the minority, those above 40 were a lesser minotry, those above 50 lesser so…and that continues up to 81…I only know of a few people in the game (out of the millions) who are at that level. Leaving these people with their PRL would not drastically change the game in any meaningful way. If it affects the leaderboard, then the leaderboard has stupid metrics on it (if the leaderboard has anything to do with levels on a limited level system, it is flawed to begin with, because soon everyone will be at that limited level….do you have 3000 1st places?) Not to mention, I haven’t heard a single person who WANTS a leaderboard.

Shadow Blade.1324:

They didn’t compensate anyone when they reset achievement points.

They didn’t compensate anyone when they reset MF.

They wont compensate you.

Seriously? Did you read what you wrote?

They never reset achievement points…all points I earned were still there and they GAVE me something…achievement chests for even past achievement points earned before the rewards came in.

They didn’t reset MF, they changed it…you could re-pick stats on items that were affected, and they GAVE you 50% MF for all your characters (account-wide) with the ability to raise it for ALL your characters….this was probably the best update for people who run ALTS (I started running alts after this update since my MF gear wasn’t limited to a single character anymore)….not to mention not having to carry yet another set of gear on my main! I was a little upset at first about the loss of my 300% MF on my one character, but having it spread account-wide was actually a blessing…I can now play any character in optimized gear and still get the same loot.

The only way being reset from 50 to 30 (or 80 to 30) would be fair is if everyone loses something. There are so many people grinding to 30 right now so that they can start at the higher reward levels next week. Many of these guys don’t even have AR! (I was shocked when I was in a 30 PUG and it was taking forever (even longer than normal for a low level PUG…but we did have some bad rolls as well (Harpies, Dredge)…we were 4 hours in before we even got to the Maw…and when we finally got to the maw, I realized why everyone was constantly dying…3 of the 5 of us died as soon as the agony hit…and when I asked, they FINALLY admitted to not having any Agony Resistance…even though they had been insisting from the beginning that they had 30+ AR. They also admitted to never having run higher than 10 before Tuesday and that they were just joining every group possible “to get to 30 before next week”. When I told them my PRL they all started griefing. “next week, we’ll all be the same level HAHAHA!” ETC… If I wasn’t in Maw already I’d have quit…as is, I finished it and vowed no more fractals until this is all sorted.

Whats funny is that had they been honest with me up front, I would not have cared! I teach fractal runs for people for free!! But because they kept insisting they knew what they were doing and were fractal experts it made the whole run not only LONG, but really frustrating…..

ANET. If you are removing my levels and putting me at the same level as these guys…the least you could do is remove 20 of their levels so that everyone feels the pain…and all of these guys rushing to 30 will also feel the pain of loss.

Even at a minimum with each fractal taking 20 minutes, 4 fractals will take you almost 2 hours to accomplish….at the minimum you are removing 40 hours of our game….with PUG’s it is probably double that….and that is not even taking into consideration those that went up to 80

Falkor.7932:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Unfortunately the change doesn’t apply to items that have already been acquired. Ultimately that’s what I wanted but there was a pretty severe technical limitation on this, so we thought it would be better to make the newly items work this way rather than postpone the conversion any longer.

Also, at higher Fractal levels the weapon skins become more common, and also start dropping in a container that lets you pick the one you want.

Any chance of a merchant to trade current weapons -> fractal weapon chests like you did for infinite tools?

would love this. Especially since I have 4 maces, 3 sceptres, 1 torch, 2 tridents, 2 spears, 1 longsword, 1 greatsword, 3 daggers, 1 pistol, 1 rifle, 1 harpoon gun, and a partridge in a pear tree….but I still do not have a shield, staff, or the AXE I have wanted for a LONG time!

would also love if the old weapons got a slightly different effect since the hardest part about them (getting the one that you wanted) required you to do countless fractals and now people could do it with a single weapon box.

Sarie.1630:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I get it, it’s fracs it’s hard, it must be challenging, and trust me it was challenging until… we realized it’s impossible.

I kinda had a similar train of thought with the Dredge fractal.

Why is one of the most preferred methods of opening the door with the bombs to die continuously, just trying to get the bombs into position? Why is one of the most preferred methods of keeping the double doors open to the gate controls to die on the pressure pads?
I guarantee this is not preferred…but it is the only possible way. The re-spawns on the dredge fractal are too fast at high levels for how long it takes to take them down, it basically makes them infinite…we’ve tried to simply fight our way to the door with the bombs and everything re-spawned around us as quickly as we were killing it. It is the same with those gate controls.

I know ArenaNet said, before release if I recall correctly, that they didn’t expect players to get through dungeons cleanly, with no deaths, but I always thought some aspects of Fractals take that a little too far, no?
I agree, I’ve often thought that their method of scaling by making faster re-spawns and higher HP of mobs wasn’t very good for allowing the fractal to be completed without using some sort of “trickery” like dying on a switch. But what else could they do?

Is it possible to complete the whole Dredge fractal (bomb door path) at L30+ without a single death? Just looking for reinsurance, really. I’ve never considered the “best way of completing content” should ever be by dying.

I have done a 48 Dredge without a single death, but it DID require a judicious use of stealth and swapping characters back and forth for a few of us. We may have even had two thieves at one point…hard to remember, it was a while ago…but I do remember exclaiming “Oh My God we didn’t die once!!!” We did it as a challenge to ourselves to do a 48 dredge with no deaths. It was a fun challenge!

Faux.1937:

There is also a lot more newer players that just never done them before.

Also get into a guild, some guilds do guild runs at set times or just are willing to do it with new players too, My guild does them every monday at server reset for leveling new players fractals levels and to help teach them as well.

This

With Every guild I have been in I have held “fractal classes” where we bring people into fractals for the first time and then work with them weekly in different catagories. Every day I would do one “1-9” for beginners, and one “10-19” for intermediates. I would then run my 28, 38 and 48 with pick groups of the “advanced” fractal runners in the guild. It really helped get people to enjoy fractals rather than be afraid of them by having a ‘higher up’ help them through the lower levels, and I would get my daily chest from doing each set of 10. Usually each of us higher level (personal reward level) guys would grab a group for fractal class so we would have multiples running all at the same time….it also helped the guild by getting everyone ascended rings and backpieces.

Well, you cant choose your bounty, so I am not sure what the point of the question is….I will also state that some bounties are easier for some groups than others. I was in a guild where we had 10+ people take on samwell and we could not finish him no matter how many times we tried….so when my new guild got him with only 5 I cringed…but we finished him easily….and have since gotten him captured every time we got him…so who am I to judge.

Check out: http://dulfy.net/2013/02/27/gw2-guild-bounty-guide/ and judge for yourself, everyone has their favorites (Trillia for me) and everyone has the ones they dread (2multi for me).

Ensign.2189:

…or they could just not lower people’s access levels. I’ve been thinking about this most of the day and I’m just not seeing the benefit.

They want to cut access to fractals over level 50 hard? Fine. Go ahead and do that. People with personal fractal level 80 will still have it show up as their personal reward level, but they can’t start a fractal over scale 50. The harm is, what, personal reward scale?

Players with current access to fractal 50 not being able to handle the new version? Who cares? Grandfather them in, let them access it anyway. Let them beat their heads against it and fail, and go back to an earlier one if they’re having difficulty.

I see two arguments against this:

1). They haven’t earned access to the new fractal scale. This argument hinges on access to a fractal scale is in fact a reward, and you never take a player’s rewards away. So I find this angle less than compelling.

2). Players grandfathered in will be liabilities to groups that achieved a given scale under the new system, as they aren’t prepared for it. This I find more compelling. At the same time, now that groups are limited only by the highest fractal level of any member of the group, I find this angle lacking as well – it’s not like the player couldn’t join those groups anyway.

You don’t want to grandfather people in to leaderboards? Totally fine; treat leaderboards the same way you do with players playing at a fractal scale higher than their current max scale. Everyone > 30 only shows up as level 30 on the leaderboard, but completing any fractal difficulty greater than your current rank moves you up. Only want to ever do rank 50 any you’re grandfathered in? Great! You’ll show at 30 at reset on the leaderboard, and gain a rank on the boards every time you hit a 50.

Where are the pitfalls? What’s wrong with this suggestion? Where is setting everyone to a maximum of scale 30 preferable to this?

I agree. I don’t understand the argument of “30-50 is new content so you need to do that first” as soon as one person is at level 50 and brings in someone who is only at 30 to do a level 50 fractal, the entire argument is invalidated.

what’s to stop a person at 30 from answering a lfg for a 50? Heck, that’s how I leveled up originally. After I tried my first high level fractal I never went back to the lower ones…and just leveled up going into 48 fractal groups…I liked the higher fractals, which is why I jumped at the chance to do 70+ whenever I could!

Sampo.9678:

What Noah said.
Before they didn’t reset.
Now they do reset.
But it’s been like this for a few months already..

Sometimes it bugs and neither side resets, and then it is impossible to advance. I had the unfortunate luck to have this happen on a 48 recently and we tried anyways until eventually people started rage-quitting…4 hours wasted as me and the last guy attempted to get more people to join us only to have people join, take a look at the situation and say “it cant be done” and then quit.

Okay constructive

I wont comment on the leaderboards because I think they are silly for a dungeon…even fractals dungeon

I’ve seen a number of ideas to appease the high level fractal players:

Not everyone likes all of these, and not everyone likes any of these:

1: a title: A title for those who made it to the ‘arguably official’ cap of 50 and one for those who went over the cap to show their accomplishments after those accomplishments are taken away. This is a glory appeasement.

2: Something to show we were there first: Make our backpieces glow differently or add flags or something to them, make our weapons different than the new fractal weapons. Something to show the old vs the new. This is a visible appeasement.

3: Rather than simply lowering the high level fractal levels…lower EVERYONE’s levels by 20…basically, the new level 30 becomes the old 50. If you were above 50, you are at 50…50 is the new cap so even if you were at 80, you are at 50. This is a “fairness” appeasement.

4: Give people gold / chests / gems / ascended weapons / etc… for every level they lose from the update. This is a “Monetary” appeasement.

5: Rather than go off of PRlevel, to be fair to the people that did countless level 48’s, look at peoples over-all fractal runs (this stat is in the game)…and grant a reward based on their total fractal runs prior to the new fractals implemented (this is a “global” appeasement) and this reward could be any of the other appeasements.

6: Leave peoples levels where they are. It is a small percentage of players who are probably at 48, and a smaller percentage who have gone beyond that. Lock any further progress at 50 and leave everyone at their current levels…it honestly would not break the game having this small percentage stay where they are. They still have to play the new content to get their daily chests. The would still have to play the new content to be on the leaderboard. I don’t even know what to call this appeasement.

Other ideas that could be thrown out there for discussion?

Nike.2631:

Mental note- Necro this thread in January to see how utterly absurd it is in hindsight.

Because most of the players in it wont be in the game anymore?

Because ANET will change their minds and not do this to their playerbase?

Because you have just been reduced to level 60 after they released a piece of new content and “80 is just a number?” so they reduced everyone to start all over in the new cursed shore and you wondered when it all started to go wrong?

I’m curious? What is absurd about players not wanting to lose something they worked hard for?

<Sorry developers I didn’t mean to drag this thread down, we should be concentrating on constructive criticism and not responding to trolls>

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

Floryn.6307:

Funny… I didn’t hear this many complaints when they removed a leg in TA and replaced it with a new one.

Actually, a lot of us in the dungeon forum did complain. I, and a lot of others, adored forward up. Just sayin’

^^this. AND, you should notice that when ANET did get rid of the F/U in TA that they did NOT remove peoples dungeon master titles or completion of TA. Forward progress was not removed. A method of that progress was changed.

TA is more of an example of how this should be done. There, they removed one path, put in a new one…but didn’t change peoples progress that had already been made. That would be the same as if here, they changed levels 30-50 but left everyone at their current Personal reward level. The Method of that progress is changed, but the progress itself is not erased.

If it is all fair to the players who are arguing that this should not be a big deal, then what about this? How about Everyone above 50 gets reduced to 50 (probably 1% of the players), everyone who was 50 and below simply loses 20 levels….that way it is a fair drop for everyone! If you were level 30, you are now level 10. If you were 38 your 18, if you were 50 you are now 30.

Hey, if its fair to drop the top people 20 levels (since all the content is currently at 30 that was previously at 50) it should be fair to drop EVERYONE 20 levels and make even the people who are currently rushing to get to 30 this week lose 20 levels….and if you just happened to be at 20 or below…you start over.

How would the people who think this is “fair” feel then?

Basharic.1654:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

A lot of the GW2 community kind of reminds me of that one kid at Chuck E. Cheese’s.

See, when you go to Chuck E. Cheese’s, you eat pizza and you play games (or I guess you could spend your whole day in the urine-soaked ball pit). Some games give out tickets. Those tickets can be exchanged for little gifts. To complete the experience, it’s nice to at least go home with a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pencil topper.

But there’s always that one kid who knows the trick. He knows that skee-ball pays out way more tickets than anything else, if you’re good at it. And he’s good at it. So that’s all he plays for 6 hours straight, with only a quick break for pizza. By the end, he’s probably sick of skee-ball. But the tickets! He’s going home with pencil toppers of all four Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!

There’s a lot more to do in the game when you’re not chasing the tickets.

This right here is dead on. I’ve been playing since beta, and I know I’m in the ball park of 2500 hours played. 2 k of which is on my main. And I still love the hell out of this game.

It retains my interest through living story, WvW, and sPvP, all of which I do depending on my mood. I have all that time in and STILL not even close to significant rank in PvP, nor a dungeon master title. I hate plugging and my guild is both small and often busy irl.

The key is I never do anything that doesn’t really interest me. It creates this positive feedback loop where every time I Iog in I’m entertained or challenged in some way. Which keeps me logging in.

Yet somehow while playing this game in ways the “uber” players would consider stupid and inefficient, I’ve managed to enjoy the hell out of this game to date, AND still have plenty left to do.

You sir, are exactly like me.

Okay, I am above 50…I totally expected since they basically made the cap 50 that anything that was done above 50 would most likely be changed in some way when they officially went above 50.

I can also understand WHY they want to start the new content at 30. Most of the fractal runners were probably either close to or right below 30. I know all of my friends are in the 20’s…most were sitting at 29 since they only did 28’s as that was a “good” level to still get all the rewards without having to have the massive AR and be really dedicated to fractals in order to get up into the 30s and 40s (or higher). Setting the new content at 30 means more of your playerbase can enjoy that content.

But I DO NOT agree with taking away the levels of 30-50. ANET set the cap at 50….therefore 50 was the cap. If you include new content for something below that cap that you allowed players to go to then you do not take away their progress. It is simple. That minority that went to the cap should still have the advantage over everyone else….

When they changed Kessex Hills, did they take away everyones 100% world exploration for the new content? When they brought in the new Halloween event, did everyone lose their achievements from last years? Bringing in new content should not be an excuse to remove something that was legitimately done within the game. If only a minority of people did FOTM up to level 50 (or beyond) then there should be no problem with that minority having a slight advantage (able to do level 48 new content) without losing their progress.

Make the leaderboards only count when you do the new levels…or scrap the leaderboards, I don’t think anyone wants it anyways…and honestly, leaderboards on content that ends at 50 is meaningless….its like having leaderboards on a dungeon? Who cares!!!

I do think this sets a REALLY bad precedent. What happens if they change the personal story and decide that means they need to re-set everyone to level 75 to redo that? Introduce a new race? Well, that means re-set everyone to level 1 so that the new people don’t have an advantage…I know, its a straw man argument, but we do need to not allow this here to prevent even the ridiculous possibilities.

Forward progress to a level set already in the game should not be removed when new content comes out. If you let me get to 50 (or beyond) your new content starts at 50.

I personally think the leaderboard was something that no one asked for and I really don’t see anyone who has said “YAY leaderboard!”

I think it is ridiculous that my levels get removed because of new content. Even if you say that 51-80 was done with an exploit….what about 30-50? Of my friends I am the ONLY one who has gone above 30 in fractals. Most of them bought magic find infusion slots and etc, so they didn’t have the AR to be able to go above 30 and most of the rewards could be gotten from a level 28. I went above 30 and made the infusions, and got myself to 45 AR (and now 55 AR with my GS) in order to do the harder levels. I do not understand why my achievement is now worth nothing more than their achievement. I have run over 1700 fractals, they have run 200 or less. After this patch…I am EQUAL to them.

Since from now on you get one of the +1 AR infusions for each fractal you run, what about doing something like giving one of those +1 infusions for every fractal you have over the 500 fractal achievement…I know guys who have done well over 2000 fractals, so this would give them 1500 +1’s and since it takes 512 for a single +10, this would effectively give them two +10’s and almost a third….which would grant an advantage over those other people at level 30, but it is a deserved advantage for time spent.

We just need something to show for our previous effort. It is ridiculous that those of us who did the content suddenly get our accomplishments removed because they want to put in a leaderboard that no one wanted!

Zylonite.5913:

Give these players a unique title and back piece that won’t be available after the patch and problems solved.

that’s what I said, We all did the high level fractals for almost no reward prior to this…so just give us some recognition so that when we join a group someone can look at us and say “ahh….he (or she) is one of the old-guard”. It’s giving people the respect that they earned for accomplishing something that not a lot of people did. Give us something special to show that we were the leaders prior to the leaderboard being created…and making it different depending on how high you really were would be icing on the cake….like add a tag to the backpiece for every 10 levels above 30 you used to be…or a different color…or just anything to show that I was there…even if I might not have the time or energy to go there again.

At least give us high level fractal folk the respect we deserve. We don’t need more rewards (at least I don’t). But, give us a unique title…or make all new fractal weapons (or old ones) glow a different color (like they did with SAB). Make our back pieces glow differently depending on how high you were in previous fractals (red for 40+, Black for 50+)…just give us something to show that we put in the work above 30.

Have you seen your achievements tab?

End game. Go get your achievements….done every mini dungeon? done ever goggles? done every jumping puzzle? done your slayer achieves? Dungeons can be done with LFG…I only PUG dungeons and have never waited more than 10 minutes for a group…even during living story. Fractals? Got your world explorer?

People who complain about no endgame haven’t actually looked. I have found more to do here than in WoW because I don’t need a group of 40 people to do GW2 “endgame”.

Okay, PRL 51 AR 55

I worked hard to get to PRL 51, I PUG’d. I do not have friends who run fractals. The highest of my friends in fractals is level 27. I did Fractals because it kept me in the game during my un-employment when I got bored with other aspects of the game and all my friends left because they were bored. My total Run fractals is close to 1700…I completed the 500 fractal achievement back in March….I was actually upset that there was no title at 500 fractals run or when I went above 48 finally after months of doing 48 fractals. (you have no idea how hard it is to find a PUG that is doing above 48…I finally got invited to do a couple 71’s after doing a 48 with a group that regularly did high-levels, and one of their guy’s was sick that day…that got me to 51…been there ever since…that groups main guy came back).

That is my history, now my thoughts: I am okay with them re-setting down to 30 for everyone since above 30 is effectively “new content”. However, I wore my PRL 51 as a badge of honor when we would enter fractals (PUG’s would comment, WOW! someone is 51!) That personal reward level gave me some respect when I ran fractals with a PUG and it allowed us to actually get through high level fractals easier…when I explained a strategy, people listened. In the same way as, when I played with that group who were 80’s, I respected them…I listened even though I had already gotten my 500 fractal achievement months before…Personal reward level was important in a PUG and always brought comments by the person starting the fractal.

I don’t care about rewards. What I want is the respect that my high level fractals granted. Right now when my character is walking around with fractal weapons, people know that I did high-level fractals, that is going to change now that people can get them at level 10. When I joined a PUG people commented on my 51 PRL, that is going to change now that we are re-set to 30. Basically, I will garner no more respect than my friend at 27 even though I EARNED that respect…nothing shows that I was an advanced fractal runner…which means I start all over with any PUG (and believe me, there are some horrible fractal runners at level 30—-38 was where the decent fractal runners started to show up in PUGs). The second part of this is time. I put in a tremendous amount of time into fractals. Most fractal runs with a PUG take much longer than a dedicated group. I have spent 4 hours going through a single set of fractals because the PUG did not listen, or was bugged (in which case we didn’t even complete it), or people rage quit on the first wipe. I was un-employed back then, I had the time. I don’t have the time to PUG my way through 30-48 anymore. Now with a job I have at most 2-3 hours on a night to spend…this is the primary reason I have done very few fractals in the last 2 months since I got a job… I don’t think I have the stamina or time to make it back to 48 again. I admit this.

Giving me extra achievement chests, or etc rewards for my levels above 30 mean nothing to me. I already have all the fractal weapons I wanted (except that KITTEN fractal shield I wanted). Give me a unique title, or better yet, make my Infused backpiece glow red or black, showing that I was once higher than I am now. Change the glow on my fractal weapons to a different color from the new ones. (like you did with SAB weapons) Anything to show that I put in the effort…anything to say that I did the work. And honestly, this should show differently for people that did 40+ and even 50+ and 60+ etc…give the high level fractal runners their respect. That is probably all most of us want. After-all we did fractals for very little reward previously. This was hard, this was a greater achievement than finding 30×. Give us our due respect….reset the levels to 30, but give us something to show that we were there first.

Actually, if you pick up one of the experimental weapons nearby and use thee #1 skill on it…….something happens…..maybe you should try!

Here is what I want for “raid” content.

One of 2 ways of implementation

I want a dungeon instance where once it is “activated” by a guild member (similar to how you activate guild puzzles…hit a button on the wall) a 5 minute timer starts. Any groups or individuals who are part of the guild who join during that time-frame are included in the dungeon and it scales depending on how many people join during that time-frame. This would allow whole guilds to join the same dungeon and do it together….whether they were small guilds or large guilds…this dungeon could be accomplished by 6 people or as many as 400 all depending on the guild-members that join prior to it starting. After the 5 minutes, the door closes and the dungeon begins…and the next group could start another instance by clicking the button. The technology for this is already in the game with the guild puzzles…as well as the timers that were used for scarlet invasions…these mechanics exist.

The other way I could see it being done is by using the “squad” functions of a commanders tag in the open world. Allow this to be used in the open world and then again make a dungeon that a squad could join as long as they were all attached to the same commander who started the instance….this technology is also already in the game in WvW…it would just extend it into the open world and give an additional function to the squad leader (start an instance). Again this instance should be scalable from 6 to the maximum a squad can handle (25?).

A final possibility is a raid type dungeon that simply has a timer. It starts every hour on the hour and stays open for 5 minutes…anyone who enters during that time is part of that dungeon and can go together…this would mean a lot less structure to the groups (cannot pick your people like you could with guild or squad) but would allow a lot of solo players (not part of guild or squad) to still enjoy raid content. This is kind of the “open world instance” kind of model that once again should scale from 6-400 depending on the amount of people that join during the “signup” period.

If ANET implemented raiding in any of the above ways….I would be all for it…since it allows for groups to do this content without having to join a “raid party”. The reason I always start the scaling at 6 players is simply to differentiate it from “normal” dungeons…these require a little bit more players, more coordination than simple party mechanics. The reason I don’t start it at 25-40 players is that I do not want to alienate the small guilds in the game…small guilds love to do things together also…and they might not have 25 people….but most have more than 5.

pdg.8462:

“End game” means when I stop playing because there is nothing left I want to do. End of game. Game over. Etc.

Agree whole-heartedly. I listed some “end game content” in a thread here https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/End-game-content/first#post3199901

….I haven’t run out of things to do yet…and not bored yet because of it.