Guild Wars 2

John Smith.4610:

24 hours, >150,000 ectos, > 9500 unique sellers.

So, clearly the conspirators have a wider influence than originally suspected!

Imagine, nearly ten thousand players working in concert to manipulate the market! Those fiends!

I jest.. Thanks, JS.

Amun Ra.6435:

Mourningcry.9428:

OP, Would you please provide some substantiated evidence to support such a massive claim?

At this point you’re offering little more then an observation and speculation.

You have any idea how much work it would take to prove this? All I got is observation and speculation, unfortunately that’s all we have since there is ZERO regulation of the BLTC.

Actually, I do have a pretty good idea. Which is exactly why I asked for it.

So, what you’ve done really amounts to coming here and crying wolf. As SP alluded to, not the first time.

Those of us who do have an interest in the TP do give these claims consideration. But when they’re nothing more then unsubstantiated speculation, it’s hard to give it any credibility.

OP, Would you please provide some substantiated evidence to support such a massive claim?

At this point you’re offering little more then an observation and speculation.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Mourningcry.9428:

Portal tricks:
COF P1 – Drop the portal inside the boulder field

I’ve had someone do this to me, and while it was sort of funny, I’ve got to admit that I was pretty miffed that he cost me armor repairs and my stacks. Please don’t do this to people; at least in the other examples here most players can at least defend themselves.

Come on, I think it’s fair to say that any “kill methods” posted in this thread are hypotetical, and are not meant to endorse practicing it.

Please don’t start taking it serious, and turn this into a serious thread, I think it was meant to be light of heart.

But the simple counter to this, is don’t take the portal, run it across normally.

In the spirit of fun….

Mesmers have this easy -

Portal tricks:
COF P1 – Drop the portal inside the boulder field
General – Drop a portal near a chest

Focus Tricks:
General – Use the focus pull to drag mobs to/from other players

General – when you’re about to skip some mobs, cancel the focus field right after you pass through it, leave your party behind

Illusion of life – Cast it when there are no enemy mobs around

All in good fun

LordByron.8369:

…

Same is often for GW2……

You just memorize patterns and Attacks and dumb AI cannot adapt.
Its just not a game of skill, tactic and stuff….its just memorizing a strategy (you possibly already seen on youtube or by other players).

No skill involved.

Please demonstrate. We were asked to. I offer the same.

Show me a flawless Kholer kill. The patterns are well know, and readily availble.

You claim it’s not a test of skill. Have at it.

Edit:

My apologies, response is childish. Just tired of seeing such blatantly dismissive and ignorant posts.

It’s obviously theoretically possible to perform a flawless Kholer kill, but to state that there would be no skill involved is a bit audacious.

Edit: Repsonse deleted.

Pretty much have come to accept that based upon the frequency and intensity of the commentary lately, it’s the rare minority of players that would rather spend the time to raise their play to meet the content rather then have the content lowered to their comfort level. No level of arguement on my part is gonna change this.

Kudos to those silent, and minority of vocal players, that do the opposite and take some pride and enjoyment from attempting the challeges offered (even if they fail) – best of luck to them.

WonderfulCT.6278:

How does this keep happening?

Search function must be broken.

Edit:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/AC-Ex-35-Run-Video-and-Impressions/first

haviz.1340:

That’s correct. Only the bestest deserve it.

Gold…

I wish I could farm these posts like a pack of zerk’ed warriors in COF P1…

Morpheus.6401:

For casual players I meant those who can’t or just don’t want to spend 6-8 hours a day playing this game. They can be excellent players that just don’t play as much a hard core because of many reasons. Maybe he is not kids and have to work a lot, or maybe he plays other games too, or his girlfriend is a kitten. Who knows.

The thing is that some people think they are better than others and that really upsets me. Especially when they don’t any clue of who they are talking about.

I’m starting to lose you here… what PvE contentare you referring to requires a 6-8hr day commitment?

If anything, GW2 offers a lot of options for people who have a limited amount of play time. Yet even in small amounts, they can still achieve some degree of progression towards a set goal.

If we’re going to focus specifically on dungeon instances, then I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a player to anticipate that they’ll need at least a good 1/2 hour to attempt an instance. Notice, I say “attempt” not finish. Even if the allocated time expires, hopefully that player has gained some level of experience that will allow better performance in later runs (i.e. learning). And I also don’t think it’s unreasonable for a brand new player to have to spend a good chunk of time initially learning an instance.

I would also go so far as to say it’s not unreasonable to expect a player to have acquired a good level of competence once they’re committed themselves to actually learning how to run an instance. And once done, they can do most runs in a reasonable amount of time – and by that I mean faaaar less then 6-8hrs.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Personally I’d rather see a steady difficulty progression. Lots of players have to do AC in story mode, and get literally kicked in the teeth by its difficulty. A difficulty closer to HotW or CoF would be much more suitable to these beginner zones of the game. You could gradually learn players how to do dungeons, by slowly making dungeons harder and harder.

Right now it is immediately teeth grindingly hard, turning many players away from dungeons entirely because it is so awful. And then dungeons erratically become way easier, and harder and easier. There is no difficulty curve in the progression of dungeons. I wish there was. Start simple and easy, then build up the difficulty levels with each dungeon, with Arah being the final hardest dungeon.

I can understand this thinking, but given the way the game is designed, I don’t think it’s appropriate at all.

The simplest reason is due to the acquisition of Tokens. Tokens are used for both Gifts as well as Exotic gear. Further, given that different dungeons provide different stats, this would favoracquisition of some stats over others. Not optimal. Further it would inherently trivialize some acquisitions.

The dungeons are designed to provide a challenge to both a player who has reached 80, is fully geared, and is working towards a Legenday, as well as to a player who barely meets the base requirements for that instance – hence scaling. The mechanics of the dungeon don’t rely upon gear, rather, they are dependent upon knowledge and skill – level independent.

Implementing a progressive scale catering to gear, level, knowledge and skill doesn’t easily fit into the current structure.

Trying to revamp the system to accomodate the kind of progression would require resources that could better be spent developing new content rather then trying to restructure content that meets the current paradigm.

Maestro.5376:

Since there’s all this kittening and whining about having a Guardian in our group, I might as well ask you to switch out for your Necro next time.

Will play around with both my thief and necro and see which one I feel more comfortable with.

From my own experience, the Necro was the 2nd char I tried, and I just couldn’t get into the play style. Will give it some time and see.

But no prob shelving the guardian.

@Matzepeng

Much thanks! Great observations. Thanks!

Maestro.5376:

Levistis.8356:

Dude…but without a guardian, as you saw in the video, we will stand no chance.

We’ll lose to the first Breeder and call it a day!

Foo… Dertha or Grast may refuse to run with us once they see the group. I wouldn’t blame them either…

Mourningcry.9428:

…
We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Just re-read this, and want to clarify. It’s not about my ego about being able to clear w/o a wipe. By “nothing to gain” I mean we can’t “prove” that AC is any more doable by level 35s.

By “lose”, I mean any failure on our part will likely not be used to highlight our shortcoming, but rather to be used by the naysayers as ammo against ANET to further their claims that AC needs to be changed – which is not the case.

Just wanted to clarify.

Maestro.5376:

Leo G.4501:

Levistis.8356:

I am down for P3, I’m sure our group could complete it. Let’s try to do it this weekend, how would the others fair on that?

I’d enjoy that. Probably wouldn’t have a bunch of people (well, there never was a bunch) watching to see if we succeed, but P3 is presumed harder than 1 and I think P2 is now the ‘hardest’ so yeah, I’d be down for running the other paths. Shouldn’t take very long

Yeah, we should do either P2 or P3 with the same gear this weekend.

I’m in.

Was joking around with Maestro just yesterday… I said that at this rate, we’ll be running Arah naked with a 1-handed melee weapon before long… There will always be more naysayers.

The first run was about as “pure” as you can get given that the group was at the bare minimum, with zero pervious group experience, with very little class knowledge.

Now, we have experience together, we know how these characters play in this specific dungeon, we are a level higher (1 more trait). If anything, we’re no longer the minimum required that we once were.

But hey, if they wanna see it, ok. However, I really believe at this point the requests are more out of spite then a true belief in that AC exp really can’t be done at level 35. We have nothing to gain, and only a lot to lose. If we don’t clear without wiping, even when we complete it, there will be people pointing that out and using that as ammo.

Well, count me in It was fun the first time, sure it will continue to be!

Lipin.7529:

Hey, I’m so sorry, I tend to be harsh, but your explanation kinda explains it. I’ve always been wanting to let the community know they just have to understand the game to appreciate the dungeons. So, much appreciation for the video and posting it on the forums. Cheers!

No worries…. no way you could have known any of that just by watching the vid.

Thanks again.

Ursan.7846:

Yes. After watching you sucking it up, I can no longer take your posts seriously, here and in the BLT subforums…

Kidding kidding.

Lol. I can’t spend all my time trolling in BLT

No need to kid , always knew you were wise

Lipin.7529:

I’ve watched the video, thank you for taking the effort to put this up.

The sad fact is: The elementalist doesnt know how to play her class. Alot of DPS was wasted, elite skills not used, auto attacking, not switching stance.

Alot of the parts of the dungeons were ran with sub-effective strategies.

The video was a pain to watch because your party waits forever before you do anything.

The pros: The party cleared it and while they ran it under sub-effective conditions, it further proofs AC can be ran by ANYBODY.

Thanks

However, in all fairness, we really tried to run it as if we knew no strategies… just clear everything (with the exception of the burrow order, kholer evades, and gathering the scepter pieces). Sorry the chat was covered up. I’m sure it would have added to the entertainment factor.

Also, these were all alts we put together in a couple of days Most of us didn’t even know when to optimally activate skills, etc.

But it was fun. Thanks for watching.

carabidus.6214:

What exists now is a patchwork of dungeon paths that have virtually no linear progression in complexity. How can we when AC, a level 35 dungeon, is now widely considered one the hardest?

Considered by whom? Under what conditions?

Please don’t presume to speak for all of “us”, especially when making such broad generalizations. (Especially in a thread that was centered around debunking such nonsense).

nethykins.7986:

Mourningcry.9428:

Putting the blame on the community, and their lack of co-opperation and support is weak, and inherently shows a lack of effort. Take the onus upon yourself and create the conditions you need to succeed, put in the effort there.

Maestro threw it out there, and he got the support he needed to prove his theory. He put forth the effort to get it done.

When Maestro first put out the challenge, I emailed him shortly after I saw it, as did a scant few others. When we made the run, I think the total guild membership created for that purpose had a dozen members. Others who didn’t make the run supported in other ways.

Part of the “effort” is to push through it until you get it done. If you join a group and get kicked, join another group. If your group disbands, start up another one. I’m not claiming this is easy, nor how it’s disheartening when it fails, but that’s part of the experience (for better or worse).

There are players out there that are willing to help. We’re not all elitests. However, we’re not always going to be the one’s to make the effort to seek out those that could use some help. But if found, we’re not likely to turn someone away.

I’m only highlighting a point you missed.
I could have easily said, “placing the blame on solo effort is a weak argument” but i didn’t because it makes sense and also I realised while it does require individual effort, dungeons are not an individual activity
As my example stated. I wanted to even do storymode, the effort was there…this was an alt, I kept looking out. I joined a guild soley described as PvE, friendly and helpful with doing lowbie dungeon runs. I was constantly willing, but was anyone else? Barely.

Let’s put it this way. Maestro made the effort to prove it was doable. Your effort and many other’s contributed to this. All I was saying is that it is NOT just a solo effort. Maestro could not have done it without you and the rest, and you and the rest would not be proving anyone wrong if you didn’t have the effort of Maestro wanting to prove people wrong.

On Maestro’s run: There’s a difference between doing a run as 35+’s for experimental purposes and doing it in your normal, every-day playtime, also we’ll add to this that the post was made nearly a week before the run took place.
So waiting a handful of days to do one run is normal? When people were talking about waiting hours to get a group or into WvW, they just must have been all impatient then?

I never said you guys were elitist, or event imply that. I am only pointing out in the grand scheme of things, will this change player’s perception of the fact that 35’s are still as viable and valuable as 80’s. Sure, you and your group involved in this may be completely welcoming to new players or people willing to learn the dungeon format for the first time, but you have to remember…you are one group and there is a significant minority of those groups around. The more people spread out the notion that 80’s are – on a playerbase level – better for AC runs, then that will continually snowball and guilds will become more reluctant because it’s “just how it is”.

TL;DR: Effort in a group dungeon is not a defined as “individual effort” and requires effort of other people too! (You should know this!!!!!!!). This is a question of whether the general playerbase will change it’s opinion on the stigma of “only 80’s plz”. This is not criticising anyone’s effort for the experiment.

Whoa, I know what you mean And I know you’re not critizing the experiment – thanks.

I’m saying part of the “effort” is getting a group of likeminded people. Whether this is a guild, or adds to your friend list, that’s part of it. Put the effort into putting together a core group you can, and want to work with. If I have a good run with a PUG, I usually say something along the lines of “Good run, please add me and send a tell if you need to fill a spot! Thanks!” And that’s not lipservice, I mean it. Likewise, if someone else says that, I’ll add em, make a note, and now that’s a person I can call on if I want to fill a spot. Such a small effort, but it’s been worth it.

Part of the effort extends beyond just running the dungeon. It’s the prep that goes into it.

And no disrespect to the guild you mentioned, but if guildmembers aren’t willing to help our fellow members, then perhaps that’s a reflection of just what type of guild it is, and perhaps it best if a little effort be put into finding a more appropriate guild.

Also, as a side note, the reason it took a ~week for us to do the run is because many of us had to level up an alt from scratch, as well as finding a time we could all be on to do the video feed being in different timezones with weekday commimtments. It was just something we wanted to do, and a time constraint really wasn’t something we wanted to deal with.

Murderin.8269:

Amodin.1092:

Because Arenanet is for whatever reason, so hard against an LFG in game for dungeons, someone made a website and it has become rather successful for LFG. The website is gw2lfg.com and for my group has produced great results for finding a member or two if we are short.

That would be great if it wasn’t full of “looking for experienced players”

It looks like people only want zerker warriors, whatever that is. Im not changing my build and buying more gear to do a dungeon.

Feel free to post and add whatever requirements you want, i.e. “any class, any level welcome”. You’ll get takers.

nethykins.7986:

@Mourningcry. I think you should note that effort AND other player’s cooperation are the gatekeepers.

Let’s not forget, you may have the effort but if no-one is willing to help you do a run and be willing to stand by you through the aforementioned wipes, retries, and struggles then there is no chance for you. As I’ve said before, even with evidence that 35+’s can achieve a run, the stigma still remains that “if you’re low levelled, you’re not much of a benefit to the group”

That’s always a factor that people leave out. Cooperation from other players. With kicking from parties, all 4warrior+1mes teams, and 80’s only “fast runs”, you’ll have less and less time to experience the dungeon at the required level. Now we’ve established that 35’s can do it, we have to establish whether or not the community will change it’s stance and if those extra traits create that big of a gap between allowing or pushing away a low leveller.

People talking about redoing the story mode probably have never asked someone in the last 24 hours if they want to do storymode. I joined a guild that said they were pve friendly and liked doing runs with lowbies….I wanted to test my necro in the AC environment and NO-one would want to join me…so I ended up not doing it until I reached ~60.
Again, this is all about player perception and cooperation. How the hell are you going to do a story-mode when so few people want to join and do one too? How do you gain experience?

It’s always that catch 22. People will hardly let you join so you can gain experience, but in order to gain experience you need to have people let you join them.

Putting the blame on the community, and their lack of co-opperation and support is weak, and inherently shows a lack of effort. Take the onus upon yourself and create the conditions you need to succeed, put in the effort there.

Maestro threw it out there, and he got the support he needed to prove his theory. He put forth the effort to get it done.

When Maestro first put out the challenge, I emailed him shortly after I saw it, as did a scant few others. When we made the run, I think the total guild membership created for that purpose had a dozen members. Others who didn’t make the run supported in other ways.

Part of the “effort” is to push through it until you get it done. If you join a group and get kicked, join another group. If your group disbands, start up another one. I’m not claiming this is easy, nor how it’s disheartening when it fails, but that’s part of the experience (for better or worse).

There are players out there that are willing to help. We’re not all elitests. However, we’re not always going to be the one’s to make the effort to seek out those that could use some help. But if found, we’re not likely to turn someone away.

carabidus.6214:

Indeed… So what to do? Well, perhaps for starters, keep the token amounts the same across all dungeons (fractals being a separate case), but adjust the probability of rare/exotic/precursor and gold drops according to a dungeon’s explorable level.

Kanako Davis.5364:

I agree. If they tune down AC again the need to remove any exotic reward from the dungeon. If someone fancies the skin he/she still can get it via transmutation stones.

ex:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Ascalon

There are a lot of dependencies out there that are based upon the existing design. Would rather resources be spent elsewhere, rather than spent adjusting existing content which is entirely viable.

Kanako Davis.5364:

Well you do have story…i don’t know why you won’t see that? If you’d get tokens for story would you be happy then? Could then content that is supposed to be hard stay difficult?
You ask to change content that is not supposed to be for the players who don’t want to put effort into doing that content to be changed for them? That’s wrong. As stated before there is so much other content that caters to “your kind of player”.

Agreed.

Effort, in my opinion is the real gatekeeper. Experience is probably the biggest determining factor for running the current dungeon instances. Experience takes a bit of time and effort to acquire.

If instances are brought down to a level when a player can run willy-nilly into an instance and clear it on their first go w/o a wipe, what value does this provide?

As proven by a number of examples and players, with some thought, planning, dedication, strategy (all components of experience), the dungeons can provide a fun and challenging experience – even for a solo run (awesome stuff).

Lack of preparedness, lack of dedication, lack of patience, lack of respect for the content, are all contributing factors that will make an instance a lot more challenging then it needs to be. All of these factors are something that the player can control, and are not the resonpsibility of the designers to compenstate for.

Can’t really speak for the others that did the lvl 35 run, but I know I went into it expecting a lot of wiping, retries, and struggle. Not for the reason that we were all low level, but rather we were all playing new alts that we had little to no experience using, much less using them in concert with people we had never run with before.

Ultimately, I think it was experience with the dungeon that was the main factor that allowed us to get through. That experience only comes with each of us having put in the time and suffering prior to this to learn the dungeon. That’s the hard part.

Liquid Storm.8097:

If they awarded half the tokens, it would be a start. I don’t see the point of doing a story twice atm.

I actually think the story modes, with the exception of Arah, are the most interesting, with some of the involving mechanics (at least as far as GW2 goes). Rarely do I turn down the chance to run a story when a friend or guildie wants to run it, either for their first time, or for an alt.

Some tokens would be nice, but not necessary.

Direngrey.8376:

I don’t see how people are complaining, AC hasn’t really changed that much other than you can’t cheese it anymore. Learn to actually go through the dungeon the proper way, gain the game experience, if it’s too hard, take the challenge and have the full satisfaction of completing the set ( armor, weps ) etc without cheesing or griefing.

Umm… You have to teach me this trick.

Not a single reply saying how wrong you are, and how hard AC is. Especially for any group not consisting of all 80s., in which case it’s way overtuned. Nor a single post asking you to prove this.

How’d you do that?

Incredible.

Thanks for the group and thanks to those in the stream.

Just as matter of full disclosure, I wasn’t aware of the no Rune/Sigil restriction. If it’s that big I a deal, I re-gear.

Thanks.

Great to hear the experience from this perspective.

Hillaan.6904:

Mourningcry.9428:

Ioflux.4369:

How many lvl 35’s actually had Lvl 35 Rares when they ran AC explorer? It pretty much is a standard to be undergeared because thats what low levels do.

Assume for a minute, this is “standard”. All that proves is that the player making the attempt at the instance is just handicapping themselves (or looking for a challenge).

If you want to take it seriously, you’ll do everything you can to give yourself the best chance of success.

Also, level 35 masterwork is trivial to obtain, so, it’s not beyond any reasonable expectation to assume a player wouldn’t equip themselves accordingly.

Nothing wrong with not being optimally geared, just nothing exceptional about being properly so.

What you are failing to take into account is that most people do not upgrade because you have to do it so often until you reach 80. I was under-geared most of the game until I reached 80

No, that type of play is completely accounted for in what I said.

Simply put, a player does not have to have optimal gear at any point in the game. However, by choosing not to do so they are knowingly creating a more challenging situation than they would otherwise have to deal with.

Plastered.2315:

Let me state this.

I am a casual gamer with about 10 hours of weekly total game play time. I don’t have time no desire to login like a clock and spent 1-2 hours each night doing chores.
Ever since the laurel system and to some degree FOTM (ascended gear) came out I feel “forced” to login and do the daily routine to keep up with the general population.

I am feeling burnt out of the “keeping up with the Joneses” pressure. GW2 is not the same game that I bought at the release.
P.S. I have spent close to $200 at gems store since the release. I feel really cheated by bate and switch that ANET pulled on us casuals. I will not spend any more money at the gem store until the game gets back on track to its original roots.

I’m a bit intrgiued by this… can you elaborate a little more about what you consider to be the state of the “general population”?

Cauldron.1653:

Oh boy, we had one chance to get more data from John Smith and we blew it.
I use “we” loosely here

And that is the skill of John Smith… making you think you ever had a chance

Did you really think the OP would take the time, or effort to really think out what data to request in order to really substantiate their claim instead of contining to just carry on as they did? I would bet JS had a good inkling of what and he was offering in good faith.

Ioflux.4369:

How many lvl 35’s actually had Lvl 35 Rares when they ran AC explorer? It pretty much is a standard to be undergeared because thats what low levels do.

Assume for a minute, this is “standard”. All that proves is that the player making the attempt at the instance is just handicapping themselves (or looking for a challenge).

If you want to take it seriously, you’ll do everything you can to give yourself the best chance of success.

Also, level 35 masterwork is trivial to obtain, so, it’s not beyond any reasonable expectation to assume a player wouldn’t equip themselves accordingly.

Nothing wrong with not being optimally geared, just nothing exceptional about being properly so.

Ethics.4519:

Although he didn’t specify what path, so I hope he is planning on doing all paths.

Probably not viable. Just completing a single path may result in a level, two runs definitely would.

Endrance.1680:

I do have an opinion and I’ve been given no data and no evidence to change it.

You’ve been given multiple statements, which you’ve chosen to disregard.

If you don’t trust these statements, why ever would you trust any data that was presented to you? What would be your next request, to have it audited by a third party? And no doubt, you’d expect ANET to cover the cost of that audit as well, right?

In my opinion enough ANET resources have been squandered with this request, and don’t really see any to come of any further expenditure of their resources. John and many others have been more then gracious and accomodating with your requests, which you’ve returned with nothing but disregard and doubt.

Iruwen.3164:

Mourningcry.9428:

Suffice to say, the TP is not the sole means to a Legendary, rather just one means.

So you’re going to throw something from four to maybe several hundred exotics into the mystic forge for a chance to get a precursor and farm the materials yourself? I can show you how many lodestones and so on I got after 250 hours of PvE, good luck farming them all. There’s a reason those materials are expensive.

I never suggested any course of action. That’s always been up to the individual player. I only stated that the TP is one other option to acquire items.

There’s the Mystic Forge, loot drops or the TP to acquire a precursor. Whichever a player deems to be the most viable should determine their choice. Viable does not mean easy, or quick. If none of those methods are acceptable, or attractive, then that is an individual choice, and should be realized as such.

Endrance.1680:

The point is that there are going to be people who can’t earn that much gold because as ArenaNet stated, this is to be a casual game right? It’s for everyone but if you want to enjoy this end game content you need the gold. So since you can’t earn it in game buy it with your card. Eternity costs 2300 gold in the BLTP. So if you were to trade gems you bought with your card for enough gold to buy this sword, your’re spending about 2300 USD. 50USD will get you 4000 gems. If you convert those 4000 gems into gold you’re only getting about 56 gold. So real world cash, Eternity is worth over 2000 USD

Ah… ok… Thanks for elaborating.

Well, just as a side note, the conversion of Gold to Gems, does not equal the Gems to Gold rate… I think it’s closer to 1.5gold per 100gems… but still, I get the point.

Not going to comment on TP being the gateway to end game content (which you’re equating to Legendaries), as it’s been discussed at length elsewhere. Suffice to say, the TP is not the sole means to a Legendary, rather just one means. And Legendaries are by no means requried for any game content outside of cosmetics.

Edited for formatting.

Endrance.1680:

56 Gold right now for 4,000 gems. 50 USD for 4000 gems. This was the point. But don’t take it seriously.

I may be obtuse, but I don’t see your point.

The fact that there is even a mechanism to go from Gold to Gems is a boon to the player base. If it went to 100G for 10gems, that’d still offer more options to the player base then to solely offer a pure cash to gems option.

Pedra.4381:

Mourningcry.9428:

What would ever lead you to think that the location of where a salvage takes place is a factor in the resulting outcome?

Could be an old UO player but I’ve seen no evidence that the old UO grid type system exists in this game.

Fair enough… however, like you mentioned, without any evidence, or at least something beyond speculation, claims like that, especially when used to refute, are just a bit ridiculous.

Tallis.5607:

John Smith.4610:

I think it’s hilarious when I’m looking at a million post patch salvage results and you tell me I’m wrong.

Unless you do not look at results one-on-one but per person, your numbers don’t mean anything. It is not because you see that in 1.000.000 salvages people get ectos from 3 in 4 tries, that the results are random. You would need to check all sorts of factors.

Unless you have ran numeric analysis to confirm that (say) people standing in LA have the same odds than people elsewhere or that people who salvage slower have the same odds than people who salavage faster, you can not conclude that there is nothing wrong.

What would ever lead you to think that the location of where a salvage takes place is a factor in the resulting outcome?

I suppose there could be a mystical place, that when the baby quaggan “foos”, and the bald norn burps, and at the moment when all three dragons are slain in the same moment, and if you face towards the Mystic Forge, you could be gauranteed three ectos from a rare….. but I have nothing to prove this, just a hunch.

Just a quick thank you for fixing the Weapons of the Mist. Much appreciated.

I’m sure the Foefire will be taken care of in kind.

Have read similar reports for other Weapons of the Mists.

Most unfortunate and disheartening if working as intended.

Rising Dusk.2408:

“Mesmer Portals can no longer be interacted with when there is an obstruction between them and the player.”

While this is probably a good thing at large, one of the biggest benefits of the Mesmer portal was using it as a way to save players and teammates who had been stuck in some impassable part of the terrain. If you are intent on keeping this nerf to the portal ability, then it’s important that you properly fix the /stuck mechanic so that it can get you unstuck from a terrain pathing glitch without effectively rendering you unable to do anything. This is particularly bothersome if you get stuck while someone in your team is in combat in a dungeon, since you cannot even use a WP and have to relog and die to come back.

My thoughts exactly, as posted in the other thread.

knackyknave.7469:

The portal change isn’t a big deal.

They mean the entrance/exit you are trying to use cannot be obstructed. They don’t mean you must have line-of-sight between the entrance and the exit.

Kind of unfortunate… this means it can no longer be used to free a “stuck” player that got caught in enviornmental objects. Could be used in combat, while simply way pointing out wasn’t always an option. Granted, this was a rare occurance, but I know i’ve used it this way more then a handful of times.

I do wonder how this being (ab)used that warranted this change.

Diversify. Ectos, lodestones, various tiers of crafting mats. Good luck!

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

In the abstract, any discount on buying gems with gold will encourage more people to buy gems with gold. Result? Price of gems is pushed up, taking away any discount the next guy or gal would have received.

The gold -> gem rate before and after the bag/bank slot sale is a perfect example of why this can’t be done, no matter how fancy the formula or idea behind it. I think that’s what John was getting at.

/snip

Actually, unless I’m misunderstanding the question, the solution John is asking about is targeted to ensure that any player, at anytime receives the a 20% discount on their exchange, regardless of the current rate.

So, regardless if rates rise or fall, the same discount is received.

The pitfall with this is two fold. First, as rates change the actual amount of the discounted item changes, some get more, some get less, but still an equal % relative to their transaction.

Second, once the discount period expires any gems attained via the discount would actually appreciate to the current rate if left in the economy unaccounted for.

Make sense?

Brave Sir Ryan.1240:

/snip
The only other idea would be to reduce taxes. I think most here know why that’s a bad idea.

Actually there are no outright taxes on any of the three currency exchanges in the game as far as I am aware. Claiming there are inherent taxes baked into the exchange rates is a reach. So, no, it’s not the only other idea. In fact it’s not even a viable one. Please try not to be so dismissive.

cont’d:

Let’s look at a very simple example of how this would work:

Ex 1: Player with an initial balance of zero gems, and a balance of 3G

A Discount of 20% is being offered.
True Rate of G/M = 1:100
Discount Rate of G/M = 1:120

- Player exchanges 1G at current rate for 100M and 20Mb
Balance = 2G, 100M, 20Mb

- Rates move, and gems are depreciated:
True Rate of G/M = 1:80
Discount Rate of G/M = 1:96

- Player exchanges 1G at current rate for 80M and 16Mb
Balance = 1G, 180M, 36Mb

- Player buys an item in the Gem store for 100 gems. This will cost the player 80M, and 20Mb
Balance = 1G, 100M, 16Mb

- Rates move, and gems are further depreciated:
True Rate of G/M = 1:60
Discount Rate of G/M = 1:72

- Player exchanges 1G at current rate for 60M and 12Mb
Balance = 0G, 160M, 28Mb

- Player buys an item in the Gem store for 100 gems. This will cost the player 80M, and 20Mb
Balance = 0G, 80M, 8Mb

At the end of the discount period, player forfeits any remaining bonus gems (Mb). Think of it as a use it or lose it proposition.

In summary it looks like this:
Total Gold converted : 3G
Gems received for Gold exchanged @ true rate = 240M
Bonus Gems received for Gold exchanged @ true rate = 48Mb
Total Gems received = 288 (combined gems)

Total gems spent = 200M
Balance at the end = 80M

This equates to a player exchanging gems at the true rate, receiving no bonus gems, but rather receiving a discount on the items bought:

Total Gold converted : 3G
Gems received for Gold exchanged @ true rate = 240M

2 Items @ 100M each = 200M
20% discount on items = 160M

Total gems spent = 160M
Balance at the end = 80M

I haven’t really looked into proving this methodology for all scenarios. Just throwing it out there for discussion and to answer John’s question. I’m not claiming it’s bullet-proof as it stands, just an initial collection of thoughts.

Also, I haven’t really addressed how this would impact the Gem -> Cash exchange. I believe the same pari passu methodology would hold, but didn’t work it out.

TLDR: The concept of “Bonus Gems” is just a generic term, something else could be used to better represent it in game – “BLTC Bucks”! The promotion would then be something along the lines of “Receive 20 BLTC Bucks for every 100Gems you buy with gold! BLTC bucks can be used like gems for a limited time! Hurry now! Offer and Bucks expire soon!”

Thoughts?

John Smith.4610:

I’m curious, assuming the argument that a 20% discount should apply to the gem exchange rate (I think people here have done a good job of explaining why the sale isn’t a sale on the exchange, so lets leave that be). What system do you use to create a moving 20% discount on exchange, keeping in mind that the supply of gems is not unlimited, and that the exchange does not fabricate gems?

Heck of a question, John… If I understand it correctly, you’re asking how to apply a fixed devaluation (discount rate) to a floating exchange rate (the gold to gems rate) correct? I’m assuming we’re can pass on discussing the devaluation of gems vs cash, as it’s a classic currency peg, and there’s a substantial research available now on the subject. So, that leaves us with how to impose a moving, fixed, discount on an exchange rate for a limited duration.

Anyway, after a little think, I believe implementing a method to account for gems received as a result of the discount separate from gems received as a result of the true exchange rate, one could simulate a moving discount on a floating rate. The accounting can be handled through the use of a temporary, synthetic product that represents the gems received as a result of the discount. Explanation follows:

Let’s start with the following assumptions:

1- At any give time (t) there is a “True Rate” (Rt) that is representative of, and who’s behavior under market conditions is the same as, the existing rate.
2- At any give time (t) there is a “Discount Rate” (Rd) that is representative, of Rt with respect to the fixed discount rate
3- There fore the spread between Rt and Rd will always be the discount (D)
4- The discount will only be offered for non-infinite amount of time, ie, it has a near term expiration date
5- There is no mandatory requirement that Gems be spent in a set amount of time, ie, gems may be held indefinitely regardless of the current rate, or if the discount rate is in effect.

Some definitions:
• The exchange rate of Gold to Gems can be expressed as “G/M”
• The exchange rate of Gems to Gold can be expressed as “M/G”
• The is fixed spread between G/M and M/G such that an arbitrage condition doesn’t occur in any immediate time

The main consideration is that during the period of time that the discount is in effect, gems may be accumulated at a discounted rate and upon expiration of the discount period, realize an immediate appreciation in value at the current rate. In the current state of the game, there is no way to differentiate gems acquired via the true exchange rate vs gems acquired at the discount rate. Therefore it is imperative to be able to remove any gains realized from discounted gems after the discount period has expired.

In order to be able to account for gems received as a result of the exchange at the discounted rate, let’s create a new category of Gems called “Bonus Gems” (Mb). Bonus Gems will exist only during the time period the discount rate is in effect. Bonus Gems are consumed pari passu when regular gems are used, with any deficiency in Mb compensated for in M.

cont’d

The following question was asked by John in another thread:

John Smith.4610:

I’m curious, assuming the argument that a 20% discount should apply to the gem exchange rate (I think people here have done a good job of explaining why the sale isn’t a sale on the exchange, so lets leave that be). What system do you use to create a moving 20% discount on exchange, keeping in mind that the supply of gems is not unlimited, and that the exchange does not fabricate gems?

And, as tends to happen on the forums, the thread went on a tangent before a discussion on this question could really form. In hope of some discussion, I’ve created this thread (which of course, the mods and merge back into the original if they see fit).

The original thread can be found:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/So-much-for-the-bag-bank-slot-sale/first