Guild Wars 2

Ariella Goldstein.3562:

I’m unsure why the snark. Is there anything wrong with the idea that lower level characters might wish to participate in non-festival events in the living world, which is what we are discussing, not the general content of GW2 which has pretty much been there since day one.

I’m not saying level 80s should have no new content, but there has to be a better way to balance the content so that lower level characters don’t miss out on the entire experience. This is called living world for a reason, which means everyone should be able to be involved on at least some level, even if for lower level characters its tangential quests that still allow them to be a part of the story. I don’t see that as a large threat to any level 80.

It’s no more snarky, then the psuedo-naivete of posts that ask “Why isn’t there more content update for <insert your group of choice here>”.

If the content has a new dungeon, you have complaints about having to group and being unable to solo it. If the content has jumping puzzle type content, players with limitations have issues. Release content that results in world event content, players forced into overflows raise hell. And on and on….

It’s not that any of these complaints aren’t valid, however, it really isn’t unreasonable to expect players to realize that content biased towards certain playstyle demographics will happen. That combined with the simple notion that you can’t please everyone all the time, it’s no surprise that some players will be left out.

Machiavel.6042:

Gee, I dunno…

Making real expansions, with useful content. You know, expanding the story ? That could be a start.

Oh, even better !

You know all the noise they made about player housing and Guild Halls ? How about selling banners or decorations ideas ? Bigger Guild Halls, expansions to the Guild Hall ? Big things, that a group of player will work as a whole to get ? No ?

More weapons skins, more armor skins, services like infinite tools, permanent stuff…

You know, all the things they keep bringing back and forth ? Just add a little more variety to it.

And you, Sam. How’d you do it, hmmmm ?

All valid. But some more so than others. ANet has the metrics and the data to make the decisions about what best fills the coffers. Obviously, they feel there are potentially more people out there that’ll pay for a new hairdue then they would for a guild hall or the such…. or at least the return on them are more favorable.

How would I do it? I got not complaints with how they’re running their rodeo now… when they wanna pay me for me my ideas, then I’ll let ’em know. After all, nothing for free, right?

Machiavel.6042:

Welcome to capitalism, where human greed runs everywhere, and cash is the only goal !

Ok, Karl…. How then would you propose they fund the game?

Nope. Nothing for them to do at all….

Outside of the 18 sub-level 60 zones that are already out there.

Time Glitch.2460:

…
The first thing the player must do is truly become accomplished in the world of Tyria. Here are the first set of requirements:

- World Completion: 100% the world. (already in)
- Dungeon Master: All dungeons cleared, no wipe. There would now be a “Master” mode to all dungeon paths, resetting the dungeon if your group wiped. You would have to complete all of these for the Dungeon Master requirement.
- World Boss Completion: Must have participated and defeated all world bosses.
- Cleansing of Orr: Have cleared all Temples in Orr at some point, and be present in Orr when all temples are cleansed.
- Fractal Master: Achieve a high level in Fractals of the Mists. (Considering I have never participated in high-level fractals, it would be foolish of me to propose an arbitrary number. Something high, but not impossible. If that’s max level, then it’s max level)
- Master of Agility: Completed all Jump Puzzles.
- World Guardian: Completed a high number of WvW objectives and earned a high number of badges of honor.

Simply put, this is bad. The majority of these “requirements” can be bought, and/or rely on the success/participation of anywhere from 4 to dozens of other people.

Just don’t see how running with a zerg, or buying instance completion is at all Legendary.

Draco.2806:

Why though?

On a side-note, that’s not actually possible. You said so yourself: the more attempts you go through (grind tons of mobs, for example), the better your chances. That’s just how it works.

No, I never claimed that at all. I just said the rate of events changes. He gets more attempts; but each event has the same changes.

As to, why? It’s simple – I’m content with an equal shot. Simple as that. And if each event offers the same shot as every other event, then that’s good enough for me.

Draco.2806:

A game is not a game without rules.

The rules of probability are sufficient. One could argue that in an environment of inevitability, there’s no point in playing because the outcome is already known. It’s just a question of time before it arrives. What fun is there in that? What’s left to “game”?

Draco.2806:

As I said, it’s a bit hard to wrap your mind around, because you see “You have the same chances!” and logically that means “It’s fair, because it’s the same.” But it’s not. It’s simply random.

Random luck is the very opposite of fairness, isn’kitten
…

Is it fair when a millionaire finds a bunch of cash lying on the road? Is it fair when a good person gets into a car accident? Is it fair when you get rewarded for doing something terrible or stupid? Is it fair when a criminal gets away scoff-free? Is it fair if your house burns down?

With examples like that, it appears you’re looking to achieve some sort of karmic, ethical, or judegemental balance to the game. Life isn’t fair, and while it may be nice if it were, GW2 doesn’t need to be fair in that sense either.

Edit: Which is the beautiful quality of RNG. It doesn’t care who the player is, what they’ve done, or for how long they’ve done it. However they got it, they got a chance at loot. And they’ve got the same shot at it as anyone else at another other time ever had. Doesn’t get much more pure than that.

Draco.2806:

There’s also something called a Gambler’s Fallacy: “I’ve already played for so long, so my chances have got to be improving by now.” It’s perfectly logical – again – because the Law of Large Numbers says: the more you try, the closer you get to the average, right? But it’s not true. Your chances to “win” on your thousandth attempt are the same as on your first.

What’s worse is that those are some of the least counter-intuitive things in statistics.

As mentioned above, I don’t think anyone ever claimed it was otherwise.

Draco.2806:

They’re not. But that doesn’t mean it’s “fair”.

Even though you might have the same “chance” (i.e. 1 in 1,000) as the other guy, you don’t actually have “the same chances” in a random environment, in the sense that you do not get the same outcome, or even close to the same outcome.

You may think that having the same “chances” no matter what would put someone who grinds for hours and hours on the same footing as someone who logs out occasionally, but it really doesn’t. That grinder could very well be getting a thousandfold more epic loot than you. Or they could be getting nothing at all.

It’s just luck of the draw. It’s unfair by definition.

In fact, if you want to offer players “same chances”, you’ll want to follow some of the basics described in OP. Without proper thresholds, intended controls of an item’s rarity become a competing force aimed towards pure random, at which point designer’s original intentions towards rarity, time gating, rewards, and fairness of loot and combat fly out of the window.

I had a feeling this is what you were getting at. And,
I think it’s a matter of perspective.

You’re basing the fairness on the outcome, rather than the process.

I would argue that it’s a fair process as it’s going to get. Each event yields the same chance at any given outcome for any number of events. Of course the outcome of each event is going to vary drastically.

I’m not concerned with the outcome as long as the process treats each event equally. Which, as you agree, it is as the probability for each individual event is equal.

Your premise comes down to the inevitability that a certain outcome will eventually happen and that makes the proccess fair, correct? I don’t agree with this, and don’t believe that there is any need for inevitability.

Suffice to say, I think we’ll have to remain opposed based on this.

Draco.2806:

Hm. The solution to RNG problem wouldn’t affect that though. I was talking about bringing the outliers (“unlucky”) players on the level field with what designers expect to be “average”, which is what they use to determine rarity of the loot in the first place.

Also – and this is a bit counter-intuitive – that wouldn’t work. Random is random. No one has the “same chances” in a random environment. It’s just luck of the draw.

(And “luck of the draw” is terrible game design.)

\

Can you elaborate on what you mean by what I bolded? How are the percentages different for the each event?

Tom Gore.4035:

Words of a true grinder. I can appreciate that you don’t want those countless of hours of “work” you’ve put into this game suddenly become worthless.

I hope you catch the irony here.

Actually, I’m far from it… pretty casual actually. Even more so recently. Never done the FG loop, never farmed COF P1 in excess, barely got in enough Invasions to get the achieve, have only managed to get a handful of monthiles done, no world completion… you get the idea.

But I remember the days of EQ, and if you think RNG is bad here, I would love to see Anet put in a fail condition for the MF and give a non-trivial chance for the MF to spit back a Unidentifiable Object every now and then. Imagine the outcry…

Just because I appreciate a little uncertainty, doesn’t make me a “grinder”. I appreciate the idea that each of my chances at the MF, for each loot drop, I have the same shot at getting something nice as the guy that has been grinding away for hours. Yes, I may not get as many chances, which is their reward for his efforts, but each of those is just as good as any of theirs.

Draco.2806:

Actually, if you read the very beginning of the post, I’m saying it goes against the intent of applying rarity to indivisible items, where using a large chance will keep the rarity of an item certain due to law of averages, whereas using a very law chance will deviate from idea of rarity and into realm of pure luck (which is not the intent of randomized loot/randomized damage).

The probability is only one aspect. As I mentioned, the duration, or the number of trials required to reach the expected value is also a consideration. As you have no idea what either of these is, and has been pointed out elsewhere in the thread, it may very well be working as intended.

Just because you don’t feel it isn’t doesn’t make it so.

Draco.2806:

Well, you’re right, I’m making an assumption that most players do not wish to take part in gambling with rewards distributed at total random.

I assumed that would be insane.

If that’s your idea of a good game, I have nothing to say to that.

Funny, I would have assumed that anyone who would be so arrogant as to presume their own opinions are representative of a majority, while at the same time disregarding any dissenting ones would truly have to be insane or just plain stupid. But that’s just my assumption.

Draco.2806:

Aaaaand we’ve about reached the peak of absurdity. Please don’t go any higher.

Perhaps what’s absurd is the inability to understand, or more importantly cope with uncertainty, no?

Draco.2806:

The Law of Large Numbers is not subject to personal opinion. It exists.

Likewise for the rest.

The LLN doesn’t delcare ANet’s implementation wrong, bad or a mistake. You did.

ANet’s implementation will, no doubt, confrom to the LLN. How could it not? Your issue is you don’t like what the expected return is, or how how long it would take to realize it.

Draco.2806:

So what happens when you want your loot to drop after killing lots and lots and lots of things? Or if you want your on-crit effect to only trigger for 0,1 of its effectiveness? Well, what happens is that it now takes few centuries for the numbers to average out. You’ve successfully introduced gambling where there should be none. Well-done!

Opinion. It may very well be intended. And again, some of us may feel ok with this and that it should be there.

Draco.2806:

You know what I’m talking about. The Mystic Toilet. T6 mats. Exotic drops. Ascended drops. Even Rare drops. Chest drops. Black Lion chests. Dyes. Precursors. Mystic Clovers. Those silly on-crit effects that only trigger once every blue moon. The list goes on… It shouldn’t happen. It’s a mistake in design.

Opinion. You think it shouldn’t happen, you think it’s a mistake in design. Some do think it should happen, some don’t think it’s a mistake.

Draco.2806:

But you know what the punchline is? No, really? Remember WoW? Its developers know about this. They’ve seen no end to unlucky players being unable to collect 6 Wolf Pelts in the beginning zone for a month straight. And they fixed it. In WoW, the longer you go without collecting a random reward, the higher your chance that you’ll get it next time. So while an extremely lucky player can still get 10 Epic Loots from a Big Boss, there’s no situation where someone will slay it ten times over and walk away without a single Epic Sword of Rat-Slaying.

You think this is a solution. Some may consider it a weak implementation to cater to an entitled audience.

Draco.2806:

Wow. Rude.

To repeat, everything you’ve said has already been addressed in the OP, along with reasons as to why it’s wrong.

Actually, it’s more along the lines of the “opinions” as to why it’s wrong.

Not everyone shares your opinion on RNG.

Shelledfade.6435:

the fact that I dropped 300 hour of purely grinding crafting mats, and 200g into the mystic toilet and got nothing, but other people have spent far less time and money and have got more than 1 precursor?

There’s nothing special or equal about it. People quit games for less. It’s a crap game mechanic, one that should be removed, especially when someone can spend real money to get one (lol fail?)

The hard grind road should come after you get the precursor, it shouldn’t be a doorway that does not open for some, but only lucky others. That is absolute CRAP game design.

If someone puts in more time than someone else, why should they NOT be rewarded ? ?

Simply put because believing that getting a reward for effort is a convention that while you may hold dear, doesn’t necessarily resonate as a unviersal truth. The expectation for reward is what you’ve come to expect, it wasn’t ever promised to you.

More importantly, what you consider to be effort, doesn’t make it so for another who finds the same effortless. So, to them, your effort may seem utterly pathetic and undeserving of a reward entirely.

However, I see that’s really how you feel, so, nothing you read here is gonna change it.

Good luck, and I hope you’re appropriately rewarded for your efforts.

Shelledfade.6435:

I’m not going to argue with senselessness. Stop trolling.

I’m seriously not trolling.

I would really like a rational reason why you think you’re more deserving of a precusor based on such manipulative factors such as time and wealth.

What makes you so special?

rjnemer.7816:

Mourningcry.9428:

Shelledfade.6435:

RNG is not a viable mechanic when 1 person can get 3 precursors and another person that has spent more gold/time and used the same mechanic as the other person but got 0.

That’s what we call bad game design from the developers. This is an MMO and hard effort in an mmo should be a rewarding experience, it should not be simply negated because of an unfair and bad mechanics.

No, that’s what you call bad game design.

Not really sure what can be more “fair” then RNG. It doesn’t discriminate at all. How much you play, how rich you are, how skilled you are. It doesn’t matter. All players are equal.

Not really sure either what you consider “hard” in this game, but that too is a sliding scale. What’s rewarding for you may be a trivial waste of time for me, and vice versa.

It’s nice you have an opinion, too bad it’s just that.

Well its actually been proven certain accounts have better chances then others sooooooo

I believe I know what you’re speaking of, and “proof” is a bit of a stretch.

Shelledfade.6435:

It’s not equal if someone spent more time and gold but got nothing than someone else. There’s nothing equal about it, and that’s why its bad game design.

Sure it is. Why are you a more deserving player than I am because you’re capable of spending more time in game, or have somehow acquired more gold then me?

By your very definition, you’re saying you’re more equal than I am.

I paid the same for the game. I value my time in game. I want a Legendary.

RNG treats us equally.

And by “I”, I mean any other player.

rjnemer.7816:

I agree but

- its much harder to buy a fotm spot (i have never seen anyone selling fotm spots) then it is to buy mats off the tp.

- Mesmers portals could be disabled in certain areas

- Yeah temples are easy, but at least it makes you go to them

These are just ideas mind you. There are other things i am prob forgetting about.

I get ya.. I was just trying to point out how there’s liekly more than one way to skin the cat. Point being that it’s highly likely that given enough time and effort, never undestimate the ability of the player base to trivialize content.

Shelledfade.6435:

RNG is not a viable mechanic when 1 person can get 3 precursors and another person that has spent more gold/time and used the same mechanic as the other person but got 0.

That’s what we call bad game design from the developers. This is an MMO and hard effort in an mmo should be a rewarding experience, it should not be simply negated because of an unfair and bad mechanics.

No, that’s what you call bad game design.

Not really sure what can be more “fair” then RNG. It doesn’t discriminate at all. How much you play, how rich you are, how skilled you are. It doesn’t matter. All players are equal.

Not really sure either what you consider “hard” in this game, but that too is a sliding scale. What’s rewarding for you may be a trivial waste of time for me, and vice versa.

It’s nice you have an opinion, too bad it’s just that.

rjnemer.7816:

Who said anything about making it easier? Anet was the ones that said it was supposed to really be “legendary”.

Make it WAY harder and untradeable. Thats how it should have been.

Require more items from different parts of PvE, not just a kitten ton of t6 mats.

List of Req

- At least lvl 48 fotm
- 500 tokens from each dungeon
- All jumping puzzles completed
- Solo Lupi
- Cleared All temples at least once
- Dungeon Master

Those are just off the top of my head. Feel free to add

Nothing hard at all about.

- FOTM/Dungeon/Title slots & completion can all be "bought’.
- A Mez friend/guildie can trivialize all JPs
- Temple clearing is just mostly a matter of being part of the zerg and requires no skill or knowledge.

The only non-trivial part would be a Lupi solo, but not really sure how it could be enforced.

I’m just saying, just about all tasks in game can be trivialized or circumvented. RNG, sadly, along with time, are viable gating mechanics.

Option 1 is obviously inadequate and inappropriate, which OP uses only to serve as a segue into option 2.

Option 2 is a blatant and obvious attempt to try and petition for granting Legendary morphing qualities to all crafted ascended. It’s insulting to anyone who reads it that you think they would see it as anything else.

Next time, perhaps just come out and say what you mean instead of trying to be cute and taking the community for fools.

Mourningcry.9428:

Wouldn’t it be a bit arrogant to presume that just because certain groups can’t do it, that something’s wrong with the encounter?

Maybe a little humility and consider that there’s a learning curve, and perhaps you’re all not as uber as you may think?

There’s already progress happening. Latest thread had it @ 50% (~4hrs after patch). I would wager that at this rate (and excluding any nerfs/buffs) it’ll be downed before tomorrow’s reset, and be on farm before the weekend.

Well, gratz BG!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/tequatl/GG-Blackgate-and-Video/2861975

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/tequatl/120-130-people-in-VoIP-to-kill-Tequatl/2861799

For what it’s worth, I personally find the event rather daunting. But at the same time, I find it refreshing. Nice to have something to work for.

And with respect to all the complaints about the level of co-ordination required, there’s nothing egregious there. It’s a new event. Once players get more accustomed to the strategies demonstrated, and more importantly, optimize them, the degree of co-ordination will also subside.

I only hope ANet also will take note. I expect a future revamped Claw of Jormag to take at least 24hrs before it’s downed

Mirta.5029:

So it’s good to scare new players away? It’s a leveling zone for goodness sake!

Some will, some won’t. Those that want the challenge will not be scared away. Those that are easily discourged, well, if it’s not Teq, it’ll be Lupi, or it’ll be some jumping puzzle somewhere.

Mirta.5029:

How about you cut out the pain and just put it in the instance? Remember the update that made The claw not Pew Pewable by just stacking in one area at part 2? Well I’ve still seen plenty of stackers there a few days ago.

Yes, they’re still there, but people that bothered to learn can compensate for them. As the same idiots will eventually be compensated for @ Teq.

Not a fan of instancing as that’d be potentially even more limiting. Perhaps if it’s an option in LFG, but not until.

Mirta.5029:

I’ve carried level 29 trough AC P1 and 3 no prob. Teq is far worse.

Then you should know that scaling does work as intended, so, being 80/exo/asc isn’t necessary. Skill & knowledge over equip.

Mirta.5029:

Mourningcry.9428:

Wouldn’t it be a bit arrogant to presume that just because certain groups can’t do it, that something’s wrong with the encounter?

Maybe a little humility and consider that there’s a learning curve, and perhaps you’re all not as uber as you may think?

There’s already progress happening. Latest thread had it @ 50% (~4hrs after patch). I would wager that at this rate (and excluding any nerfs/buffs) it’ll be downed before tomorrow’s reset, and be on farm before the weekend.

I think that there’s a limit with how much organized guilds can do when random noobs upscale the difficulty even more. Want Tequatl like this? Make people able to make an 80 man party and put him in an instance.
And no, I’m not about to become humble, because PVE is supposed to be for everyone. It shouldn’t exclude people from events if they’re not level 80s in exotics, especially when it’s not a level 80 zone.

PvE is for everyone. But success isn’t.

After a while, it’ll only be natural that those that aren’t up for it will naturally shy away from this event.

Then organized groups will start to work it. “Noobs” will slowly start coming back into it, get knowledgeable, and then be able to spread it.

It’s a natural process. And there’s no reason why it shouldn’t take some time.

And I have no doubt that if properly equipped, the event would be level appropriate (AC revamp anyone?).

Mirta.5029:

MrPhazon.1370:

stop being lazy and learn the fight? first challenge in gw2. Stop whining and start learning the boss

I know the fight. I was there for the stream. Other people trying it also knew the fight. When even Beta people can’t take the boss down, there’s something wrong with the boss.

Wouldn’t it be a bit arrogant to presume that just because certain groups can’t do it, that something’s wrong with the encounter?

Maybe a little humility and consider that there’s a learning curve, and perhaps you’re all not as uber as you may think?

There’s already progress happening. Latest thread had it @ 50% (~4hrs after patch). I would wager that at this rate (and excluding any nerfs/buffs) it’ll be downed before tomorrow’s reset, and be on farm before the weekend.

ilr.9675:

We’ll see how it goes with NSP…. (we’re known for pulling off the impossible).
I seriously doubt we’ll succeed on the first try, or even the third…

But I think we’ve got a good history of figuring this stuff out b/c we’re just a lot more patient (well our commanders are … not me personally, I’m lazy & easily razzled).

Lol.. even if you guys do, best to report a fail.

Otherwise, you’ll all end up in overflow…

Unethical… I do not think that word means what you think it means….

So, fail a first attempt, and therefore it needs a nerf?

Thinking of that sort is just utterly pathetic.

colesy.8490:

I suppose this could apply to generally any of the popular precursors … but is it woth cashing out now or holding on to them longer and waiting for them to go up?

I kinda wanna pick up a Foefire weapon.

For someone as far along the path as you are, I’d suggest just finishing it, and then selling Sunrise if you really don’t like it.

Foefire weapons don’t have the bottleneck of the precursor, so, there’s no limiting factor for you to create one whenever you choose and given the overlap of some of the materials, you’re not locked into one or the other.

As to above posters, it’s pure speculation that any of the upcoming changes (whenever that may be) will cause a price drop. Plenty of discussion already. And plenty of scenarios where prices for current precursors could appreciate.

Paladin.1279:

Same thing is happening in NSP like above mentioned and quite frankly we are getting seriously ticked off. Not only is it a ton of guests, they are starting events EARLY on purpose, so you nearly miss Arah, Grenth, and Lyssa IF YOU CAN EVEN GET INTO YOUR OWN HOME SERVER. This is utterly ridiculous. I posted on this months ago. Solution is deprioritize guests, as in if a home person clicks the zone, the guests get BUMPED into overflow in a last in first out format, it is simple so simple, same way a WP that is contested bumps you. Or make it so guests don’t get rewards. Or END GUESTING. It has been a year. Go to your “friends” server already and STOP PUTTING ME IN OVERFLOW JUST SO YOU CAN HAVE WVW BENEFITS AND STEAL SLOTS FROM PEOPLE THAT PICKED A SOLID PVE SERVER over a WVW one a YEAR Akitten

.

Just a couple of clarifications, because you seem to have gotten things a bit confused.

The primary purpose of having players pick “Homeworlds” was not to ensure a good PvE experience. The intent was primarily WvW driven.

Guesting, as per its intent and very nature, allows players to participate in PvE events, and excludes them from WvW events – working as intended. Its intent was to allow for a meaningful PvE experience which may have otherwise been impossible for some players. Overflows are an indication that people are using it as intended.

So, picking a high population server for a rewarding experience was a double-edged sword due to the fact that not only would you be comepting for space against fellow homeworlders, but guests as well.

Also the notion of prioritizing over guests is just silly with respect to a PvE experience. Each player’s time and experience is, and should be “equal”. Guesting allows for that. If a player gets put into overflow, the implication is simply that another player prioritized being there for that event more than said player.

Thanks for the preview. It’s appreciated.

With respect to -

• Runes/Sigils are also something the balance team wants to improve. We’d like to see cooler effects on some of the sets, so we’ll be working towards that. They also lead to a lot of build diversity, so we want more sets to be stronger so that it gives you guys more options in your builds.

A “Legendary” level Rune/Sigil with morphing capability would go a long way, while not being entirely OP, as they would still need to be salvaged if a player wanted to move them to a different set of armor/weapon.

The ability to mystic forge or salvage Superior quality versions would also be appreciated.

Behellagh.1468:

Vashoom.8512:

Behellagh.1468:

It doesn’t solve anything, only let a few more people in on the secret.

It solves the problem of people who are not happy with others having the advantage, which is the entire point of this post.

No it doesn’t. How many would try out a open test server in the first few hours it’s up and figure out what to invest or divest on the live market? If you’re not the “in on the secret” in those first crucial few hours you are back will the rest of the masses wondering what happen to the market. The opportunity will be gone.

So when does the open test server go on line with the change? NA prime hours, EU, Oceania? Some slice of the player population will be a sleep or in work when this goes up and they won’t be able to get in on it.

All this will do is to increase the number of players taking advantage slightly compared to the full player base. Sure you may be able to deny absurd profits from these mythical “inside traders” but in reality all you want is to have the chance to be one of them. It doesn’t “fix” the problem.

Actually, you can walk it back even further. Without casting any diparaging implications on ANet personnel, stoping insider information has to start inside first. Development takes time, the longer the time to delivery the greater the odds for a knowledge leak (inadvertant or otherwise). It’s just the way things are. By the time it gets to a test server, or release notes, it’s far too late.

Prevention really isn’t feasible. Punishment is a suitable reaction. But recompensation and revesal of damage done isn’t usually viable.

5% listing fee
10% sales tax

nmoral.3876:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Hell Avenger.7021:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Whats the weather like in Conspiracy Theory Land?

If the real world financial market has insider trading, this game definitely will have it. Since there is zero punishment and lack of oversight to control for this type of information being given out.

You know what it’s called when people allege a vast conspiracy and their only evidence is conjecture, circular logic and reductive reasoning?

if you think this is not happening you must be truly naive or blind

By the way even Anet at certain point said in public that some players abusing restricted info were going to be punished, a statement i dont hear since the first months of the game but i dont doubt it is still happening, like in almost all games online i know

Unfortunately, Nike has a point.

Without the transactional data which only ANet has access to, there’s very little outside of circumstantial evidence we can offer. As obvious, and as blatant, as it may appear.

Also, unforutnately, the damage these transactions do isn’t easily reversed.

However, I personally would get some solace from a public listing of the violators, as opposed to the silent judgement the ban hammer usually delivers.

Bloodstone is soulbound last I noticed.

Yes, experienced this.

Have explained how Queensdale (in particular) is a starter zone, and not only are there new players who can’t be aware of this trend, but hearing that garbage in map chat sets a bad impression.

Not only that, but also explained how a single 80 could effortlessly screw up their rotation. And would be more then happy to demonstrate if they persisted.

Yes, of course it’s great if everyone could maximize their efforts and rewards, but this isn’t Wonderland. Like OP said, they really need to get over it and move on.

Lostwingman.5034:

Read again, they aren’t spending 2-4 hours to do the 5 dailies to get the chest. They are spending 2-4 hours daily COMPLETING ALL OF THE DAILY CHALLENGES. That means EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Honestly the problem is with them though. They need to learn to cull their addiction to seeing big numbers.

@Lostwingman @Kuzzi Yup.. missed the all.

Kuzzi.2198:

The dailies are too much, even for hardcore players.

I just had two friends quit the game within the past week because they could not afford to spend 2-4 hours every single day to get all dailies done. These friends were both hardcore – one with 12501 AP and other with 10339 AP.

I know people will say “You don’t HAVE to do all the dailies”. But, the truth is hardcore players will try to stay on the rankings and will try to do all of them every day.

I think a possible solution for this is to cap the PvE dailies at 10AP/day. This would let the game have more of the advertised “play how you want” feel.

New thread, old topic.

2-4 hours? No offense, but if a daily is taking 2hrs+, then a “hardcore” player they are not.

But granted, if my playstyle required 2hrs+ to finish a daily, I’d burn out too…. and the daily would be the least of my gripes.

John Smith.4610:

Isaiah Cartwright and Linsey Murdock put a lot of work into this and they are the ones that deserve your praise.

I’m happy that you are liking the new content!

Would you provide us some data to substantiate those claims?

Just kidding

Thanks all around & the efforts appreciated.

folly dragon.4126:

Lets turn gold to cash

8000 gems is about 300-400 gold

So dusk costs around 225 USD

Then you have all the rest of the mats to acquire, including 3 that are already a natural gold sink. 120 gold means 2200 gems (35 USD)

Then the dungeon time gating, lodestones (take time)
T6 Inscription mats (Blood, Claws, etc).

There is no reason whatsoever a precursor should cost more then the mats required to make the legendary.

Converting cash to gold when the rates are favorable will skew the comparison you’re trying to make.

On average, Dusk has accounted for roughly ~40-50% of the converted gold cost of a Twilight, not including Clovers or Gift of Mastery (expenses).

folly dragon.4126:

Ive said it before, The yearly birthday gift should have had a ticket to acquire a soulbound precursor.

“Wait to win” ? Maybe for a wood or tin birthday.

I think transumataion stones will be the primary, if not only, recourse.

Morrigan.2809:

just a quick question it says some thing like"contains one dye from a selection of 25 colors including 5 new" or some such
the actual flame and frost dyes- are they the 5 new colors and the rest are just normal dyes or what?
So can you buy it and get a 50 copper dye that you have 6 of already?
how does it work?
I have never bought an RNG item and have no idea.

Yes, you can get existing dyes.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Flame-Frost-Themed-Dye-drop-data/first#post1834697https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Flame-Frost-Themed-Dye-drop-data/first#post1834697

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Flame-Frost-Dyes-both-gave-me-grey-dyes/first#post2009992

Vol.5241:

What I personally would do is sell all your blues/greens that are currently occupy space in your bags/bank.

And then start farming invasions like hell and collecting stacks of champion boxes.

After the patch, open them all and sell the blues/greens on TP if it’s profitable to do so. You can hold hundreds of blues/green through no more than 10 stacks.

Careful now… let’s not forget that changing loot tables from containers already has precedent…..

LIVING WORLD
Watchwork boxes awarded from the Queen’s Gauntlet no longer contain coins.

Hell Avenger.7021:

MORE BS, now you are claiming to know that there will be changes to DROP table. buddy stop please. pulling stuff out of… isn’t going to help your argument. I am merely basing on the current system staying the same plus additional crafting supply source.

LOLOLOLOLOL

Look here are your assumptions:
1) Drop rate of MF will be lowered (idk where the hell you made that up from)
2) Precursor Crafting could be account bounded (??)
3) Supply of materials for precursor crafting going to be a factor (Don’t make me LOL, that isnt a factor to determine additional supply. Why? Simply because precursor supply was fueled by Mystic forge, now an additional supply source open up = more supply. how many more idk, but there will be more)

MY assumption:
1) Mystic Forge stay the same.

Your assumptions for the factors you mentioned above are just OUT OF THE THIN AIR. AKA worthless assumptions until patch come out. So quit spewing nonsense and wait till patch note, alright?

Btw, I know more about economics than you.

You edited while I was replying to your original post.

But just to clarify your confusion abotu my assumptions:

1) You misunderstand. MF suppy rates may decrease because the actors currently doing that would instead put their resources to crafting. Simply efficiencies. Whichever method is more efficient, presuming a rational actor, that is what people will do.

2) Just as likely as it not being. Especially given the latest precident of Celestial gear.

3) And what do you think fueled the Mystic Forge supply? How about people crafting countless rares to toss? How about the gold (yes that’s a resource) to buy the rares.

Your assumption that the MF stays the same is just fine. In fact, it’s even better then mine in that it assumes that all the changes in no way will affect the status quo of the MF. And you think I’m making stuff up?

And you’re absolutely right that it’s all meaningless until the patch comes out. Just as meaningless as all the wide-eyed optimism thinking crafting will be the answer we’ve been waiting for.

Hell Avenger.7021:

MORE BS, now you are claiming to know that there will be changes to DROP table. buddy stop please. pulling stuff out of… isn’t going to help your argument. I am merely basing on the current system staying the same plus additional crafting supply source.

LOLOLOLOLOL

Btw, I know more about economics than you.

Again, just ignore what you don’t want to adress. That’s cool. And while you may very well know more economics then I do, you lack in reading comprehension. I never claimed to know anything. Just throwing out possibilities that are just as valid as the simplistic eutopia you’re portraying.

Have a good one.

Hell Avenger.7021:

Look man,

Current Precursor Supply:
Mystic Forge

New Precursor Supply:
Mystic Forge
Crafting

Do the math, how many new method? ONE. Now you have TWO supply sources.

Some people just cannot do the math… holy, 1+1=2, man. Get a grip.

TBH, I am already short of calling all you said as BS. Now I am saying, it is all BS.

More Supply = LOWER PRICE, as long as demand don’t increase (If you buy that crap, I don’t. I don’t care what Smith said, this market is commodities market. “Demand” will only increase if you cause inflation -> during short term it looks like demand increase)

And if the precursors are account bound like the last recipies introduced? 1+0 = 1

Edit:

Further, coming off my first edit, you’re presuming that the rate that each of supply source remains the same. Maybe some of the Forge makers shift to crafting and deplete that to a negligble source? Crafting, assuming it’s not bounded, would be a possible substitute, or an addition, certainly both. And while one may not preclude the other, one may very well cannibalize the other due to efficiencies.

You presume way too much. And have a knack for oversimplyfying, ignoring and dismissing factors you don’t feel like adressing.

/end edit
Let’s say supply does increase. Shift the supply curve, shift the demand curve higher price point.

Not BS, simple Econ 101.

Edit: I should clarify, magnitude of the shifts would be key. So, it’s more fair to say price may change. I let my own bias into that one.

Hell Avenger.7021:

Mourningcry.9428:

fuji.6283:

The ridiculous price of the precious precursor has skyrocketed beyond unimaginable costs. Arenet, you need to get things together and release your new crafting system soon. The legendary gold grind process is really getting dull.

I’m really curious why so many have bought into the idea that the precursor crafting is gonna be some kind of silver bullet.

If it’s a “fair” method, I think a good many people are in for a shock in just how arduous it may turn out to be…

I post it elsewhere, but just for some quick estimations -

Mourningcry.9428:

Perhaps… but take the case of Dusk and Twilight…

For a while Dusk’s role could basically be broke down roughly as % of Twlight such that it was

~25% as an outright ingredient (1 of 4 parts)
~40-45% as a converted gold cost if bought from TP(does not include Gift of Mastery, or Clovers)
~99.99% as a drop acquisition (being generous)

You can blend and weight those attributes arbitrarily to come to exactly what % of the Legnedary the precusor contributed in your opinion. But at least it gives some boundaries for what it actually represents.

So, when taking into account those very generalized breakdowns, thinking that crafting the precursor would ease the burden of creating a legendary to less than just the outright converted cost, just seems optimistic.

And now, assuming that the crafting still uses the now appreciated T6 mats, instead of T7, or gated mats, it’s arguable that it could even be more prohibitive. Worse yet if it includes a new RNG gated element similar to clovers.

I’m not painting a picture of doom. I suppose it’s only natural to be optimistic, but even a conservative estimate would look daunting.

everything you said above is just from your imagination. What you just said is no better than some people’s expectation that it will be easier. Truth is nobody know what will happen, but one thing is for sure… MORE SUPPLY.

And how’d you’d come to the conclusion of more supply?

Suppose the crafting method is more prohibitive then just farming gold? Then supply remains the same.

And even if there is more supply, this doesn’t necessarily correlate to lower prices.

Alternatively, suppose it’s easier to craft, but crafting results in an account bound item. Now, supply stays the same, or even decreases.

Imagine much?

cranked.3812:

@Mourningcry: I tend to agree with you to a point. However, I think most people’s excitement is based on the fact that at least they will know how much they need to craft/gather/wait to get a precursor. Rather than just spending, in some cases, 100’s of gold in the MF or farming for months to buy one off the TP.

As far as I am concerned, I would spend twice the price in mats to get one rather than buy one off the TP from some kitten who is just buying and flipping them. I don’t really want a legendary and I am not currently working toward one, but if I was, I would be happy with the addition of crafting precursors even if it meant a heck of a lot more work than you can imagine.

No argument there.

Just trying to add a little realism into the dream.

Unless someone is familiar with the legendary process, without conventional TP flipping, the process is daunting as it stands now. I’m not entirely sold that swapping the current “direct” method of gold → precursor would be a worse alternative to craft → precursor. At least there are numerous methods to acquire gold. Who knows how limiting the crafting methods may prove to be.

fuji.6283:

The ridiculous price of the precious precursor has skyrocketed beyond unimaginable costs. Arenet, you need to get things together and release your new crafting system soon. The legendary gold grind process is really getting dull.

I’m really curious why so many have bought into the idea that the precursor crafting is gonna be some kind of silver bullet.

If it’s a “fair” method, I think a good many people are in for a shock in just how arduous it may turn out to be…

I post it elsewhere, but just for some quick estimations -

Mourningcry.9428:

Perhaps… but take the case of Dusk and Twilight…

For a while Dusk’s role could basically be broke down roughly as % of Twlight such that it was

~25% as an outright ingredient (1 of 4 parts)
~40-45% as a converted gold cost if bought from TP(does not include Gift of Mastery, or Clovers)
~99.99% as a drop acquisition (being generous)

You can blend and weight those attributes arbitrarily to come to exactly what % of the Legnedary the precusor contributed in your opinion. But at least it gives some boundaries for what it actually represents.

So, when taking into account those very generalized breakdowns, thinking that crafting the precursor would ease the burden of creating a legendary to less than just the outright converted cost, just seems optimistic.

And now, assuming that the crafting still uses the now appreciated T6 mats, instead of T7, or gated mats, it’s arguable that it could even be more prohibitive. Worse yet if it includes a new RNG gated element similar to clovers.

I’m not painting a picture of doom. I suppose it’s only natural to be optimistic, but even a conservative estimate would look daunting.

AndrewSX.3794:

Mourningcry.9428:

So, suggesting to wait, may in fact be counterproductive advice.

Just like the opposite.

Atm things are just unknown so it’s a 50/50 guess – everybody has his opinion, but ultimately as long as nothing is known about actual process it’s all speculation.

Perhaps… but take the case of Dusk and Twilight…

For a while Dusk’s role could basically be broke downn roughly as % of Twlight such that it was

~25% as an outright ingredient (1 of 4 parts)
~40-45% as a converted gold cost if bought from TP(does not include Gift of Mastery, or Clovers)
~99.99% as a drop acquisition (being generous)

You can blend and weight those attributes arbitrarily to come to exactly what % of the Legnedary the precusor contributed in your opinion. But at least it gives some boundaries for what it actually represents.

So, when taking into account those very generalized breakdowns, thinking that crafting the precursor would ease the burden of creating a legendary to less than just the outright converted cost, just seems optimistic.

AndrewSX.3794:

Which is why i said:

Well, at least on paper. I guess that the mat list/cost will be the matter making prices drop or stay.

If Anet makes too much bothersome to craft precursors then market will be unaffected, both in good and bad sense.
If they make them too cheap or easy to get then there would be no reason to go TP, making the whole rarity of precursors silly.

Also, take in account that any mat involved in the craft of precursors might spike up in price, thus affecting much more markets aside precursors one.

It’s matter of balance.

Way too early to tell right now.

I saw that… but if the barrier to craft is high enough, it could very well drive prices further up.

So, suggesting to wait, may in fact be counterproductive advice.

My point being is that whenever the topic of precursor crafting comes up, the trend is to advise to wait and see in expectation of either a beneficial outcome (with respect to the crafter) or for the market to remain unchanged. Rarely is there any consdieration given to the potential buyer being utterly kittened.