Guild Wars 2

FrostDraco.8306:

So you are mad because they removed a cheesy jack of all trades bunker build? Then you make the claim ele is celestial by nature.

I can’t even.

Ele has been at the top of the food chain for the longest. The same reason you love the class, is the same reason they have been nerfing it. Food for thought.

Ele is celestial by nature – skilled ele play start’s when player learns to use all attuments (not stay in just one) to mix skills to adapt do different scenarios.

You sound like somebody struggled with celestial ele’s of the past but truth is:

you don’t now how to kill a build in this game → you don’t know it’s mechanics and how to counter it. That’s all. For example -good signet necro killed that build easy.

Currently ele is mostly dead (pvp) cause by design is jack of all trades. Removal of celestial (which was abused by other classes in season 1) crippled it’s main mechanics. That forced ele to use only one amulet that could provide survivability after HoT power and sustain creep →Cleric. And now arena.net marketing side decided that pvp must be faster paced so removal of cleric. That happened with terrible balance patch that killed other dps alternatives so we’re now must compete with classes that all will be doing better job in their role’s than ele.

Want heal? Druid will be better, he can sustain both power and condi, really fast with staff and s/d setup, has fair chance to win 1v1 and can ress team mates in most situations. What ele can do better than druid? Druid is true jack of all trades now, better then celestial ele.

Maybe dps? Maruder tempest start’s overloading….ow he’s dead from auto attacks of thief and rev…also 100 times interrupted.

Hold point, stale fight? Scrapper laugh at you, goes rampage in you face or goes stealth, Symbolic DH pull’s ageis from his a#@, rev get’s stability from DODGE.

Most ele want’s fair chance to compete with meta and not be considered 3th,4th replacement of class x.

Ow this is really killable…but DH will struggle. Old meta build is still better:(

I said that before, I say it this time – I predict more nerfs. PVP team and balance skill team don’t work with each other. So in next season maybe we will get usable amulet with healing power while ,,balance team" will nerf healing skills and traits more. Sorry but most balance updates didn’t had sense in case of ele.

Xillllix.3485:

The elementalist is celestial by nature so they’ll probably bring the celestial amulet back instead of working on improvements, which is more demanding. One thing is certain: they can’t balance skills properly at all and the ele lead doesn’t know how the class functions.

I don’t remember any time when dev’s seen their mistake and rewinded nerfs/buffs. Probably we will never see celestial amulet back.

Chillout sir

I didn’t bash your build and you asked for some tips. I didn’t said a word about ele:P

This might work in small team fights but in larger ones…if I have seen right nobody focused you that’s why you could do your job. Normaly 3 man burst would kill this build. You were lucky that there wasn’t any condi pressure out there.

EDIT: and yea you didn’t take shiro so you fired one of best mobility skills in game. Mobility is more important than few boons.

LazyDad.2037:

That is PvP here. Wait for queues.. Wait for game to start.. Wait to wait wait.. More time standing around then playing.

Oh yeah while that booster is ticking down.. What a huge surprise ..

Getting 8 min queues non stop in ranked and 5 min in unranked.. Then the 2 min stand around circle $%$ to start..

PvP is just bad when you can’t , you know.. going slow here.. bear with me… PvP

You know you can que outside of HoM? Like que in wvw? Or go to hot-join match and hit que button?

If you want to heave decent boon duration leadership rune should be enough, you will keep permanent protection. If you just need might go for rune of strength.

Elegie.3620:

Mr Godlike.6098:

5. after 4 seasons still don ‘t know how each trap works and walk casually along the freaking edge of TEST OF FAITH! PLZ read how this thing works https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Test_of_Faith . And also why you guys like to eat whole damage from Procession of Blades – maybe it’s time use invulnerability skill’s or blocks?

That’s what they call shooting oneself in the foot, right?

Overall, I agree with you, most players don’t know how to deal with DH, and should reflect more. However, I do think DH is a tiny bit too strong – too many unblockable thingies.

unblockable attacks are countered by hard defence methods – the cheapest ones are dodges and evades. Rev can do these things dps’ing at the same time. Most of the meta has those.

Ragnarox.9601:

Malediktus.3740:

Ragnarox.9601:

Make Guardian/dh , learn their weaknesses, beat them easily, and stop complaining. Do something.

did you read my post? I have over 8000 hours on my guardian.
the whole concept of dragon hunter ruined the class

If guardian/dh is so op, what is druid called then? A God maybe?:)

That makes scrappers, mesmers, necros God’s too!

So we got here a little hysteria on the pvp forum made by horrible build that didn’t changed mostly over s1, s2, s3 and s4. DH is more common then ever (maybe because we got 2 meta builds, maybe because ele that hard countered them is mostly dead). It’s funny that people didn’t learned anything in about it in almost YEAR.

Arena net won’t probably nerf DH and I bet that will be kicked out of meta (meta is pro-league based and all teams that used Guardians lost, so no DH in future ESL matchups). DH as concept is more for pve than pvp (most builds need to optimal in both sustain and damage). Dh trapper sacrifice better sustain utilities cause dps of bow is easy countered and weak so traps are needed to fill the gap to compete with better builds. Also DH is a slug, horrible at rotating and build encourages afk on nodes that is noob play in higher pvp tier.

Why people:
1. run directly into traps even if DH is setting them in front of their eyes!?
2. forget that almost every type of minion can trigger a trap (clones, gryos, necro minions and pets.
3. don’t care that True Shot has a cast animation (I know it’s hard to see them on asura but there are standard models for that) so why you DOOOOOOON"T DOOOODGE.
4. don’t use reflects or similar working skills? Noob DH often insists to true shot himself till he die (they don’t care even what aura you have).
5. after 4 seasons still don ‘t know how each trap works and walk casually along the freaking edge of TEST OF FAITH! PLZ read how this thing works https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Test_of_Faith . And also why you guys like to eat whole damage from Procession of Blades – maybe it’s time use invulnerability skill’s or blocks?
6. like to being pulled by Spear of Justice. You can teleport to be out of it’s pull effect, use stability or stand behind pillar or rock (it can’t pull you across objects). Of course you need to use this magical op techniques because you were to lazy to DOOOOODGE the spear, you know the thing with a chain!?

Shaogin.2679:

I thought it was Spam Wars 2, or Condi Wars 2, or Ele Wars 2 etc etc. You guys gotta make up your minds on what this game is called.

I have better title : Forum Wars 2 S4: Return Of The Noob Trapper

I agree mostly with Lord H.

We need pvp pro’s and casuals to sustain the game. I don’t mind pip progression but skill needs to awarded somehow. I miss old leaderboards and also something needs to be improved to make ESL streams more watchable – team fight’s are big mess, you can’t see how’s somebody skills influence match.

I predict more nerfs…sorry for being cynical and all

bearshaman.3421:

soulknight.9620:

What we get now is total silence as if everything is according to plan and we have nothing to worry about.

This is the one complaint that might be valid. (I agree with zinkz’s post above).

I think given the sheer volume of opinions produced on the forums concerning what needs fixing/buffing/nerfing, if they started addressing every concern put out there, they’d have to hire people for each forum just to deal with the sheer volume of requests for information. I get the impression that they use a light hand when posting in the forums, but they do post (you can look at the dev tracker thread to see what they are saying and where). Also, having paid attention to what people have suggested and to what changes are made in the patches, while they don’t implement every suggested change (that would be insane), they do get ideas from what we post. They may not say anything, but they are listening. They just don’t have the staff to risk opening the floodgates.

Edit: In case you think “floodgates” is an overstatement, someone did respond to some questions on the Lore forum a while back. What occurred was a veritable tidal wave of questions, with the OP doing his best to organize them for the staff member to try to answer, and eventually he had to back off and say they would work on a better system for trying to answer those questions. The thread title is “Lore Q&A” if you want to see it, a change made after the staff member answered some questions. That was on a thread that doesn’t see the active participation that the profession forums do. It would be even worse here.

I will agree with you if you show anything that points to ,,they are listening to us" in last balance patch. If not I would say they never ever seen a post in their life’s from elementalist subforum!

afrocrusade.4253:

Alin.2468:

Changes are not made during seasons. We will have to wait the end of this season to see more features added to guardian. So far everything is speculation.

christ really

i have to deal with these guardians all season?

why is anet so lazy

Heh and pvp ele’s (that where considered counter to dh) are dead so enjoy^^ Anet like’s irony.

Malediktus.9250:

Mr Godlike.6098:

So many people here don’t like to dodge moa…why…why people don’t like dodge moa!? Why people come here to complain because they don’t like to dodge moa!?

Dodging it is almost impossible, try playing mesmer. 90%+ of your moas will land

Those moas lands because:

1. They don’t play with standard models or just don’t care to look at animations
2. They were in team fight didn’t care to look at Mesmer – just focus necro/guard standard thing.
3. They don’t try at least to cc Mesmer if out dodges
4. They are simply bad

But I am hysterical here over dodges but most of the classes pukes actively and passively with evades, blocks, stablity’es, invulnerability’s ow and blinds…

And even if it hit’s (and don’t face ts premade) you can always use those two dodges and skill 5 to run away and don’t eat burst.

So many people here don’t like to dodge moa…why…why people don’t like dodge moa!? Why people come here to complain because they don’t like to dodge moa!?

Chasind.3128:

I use a variation of this with warhorn, but insteaad of earth and arcana I use water and air- i love dmg eles that sustain

My point is right now that if you want to have healing and dps you need to use mender and solve power dps problem. Sadly we only got protection – that’s why tempest needs earth (besides diamond skin). Rune of earth proved to me protection can be maintained longer to sustain burst thief/rev.

Warhorn is fun in pve but in pvp – I going for focus.

Sunshine.5014:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Can the Frost Bow’s Ice Storm be semi-decent in PvP again? :0

Don’t ask for it. Knowing ANet, they will make the skill (and other Elements skills) 100% half decent, and balance other classes to be 100% decent.

…or ignore us and give 1% buff to scepter…I bet Karl never ever read any post in ele subforum.

Your unkillable post’s series will be missed…

BlackBeard.2873:

Wolfric.9380:

Support is never useless. Even if ele is total garbage in 1:1 and no fun playing if he can support and heal teammates it´s a possible pick because support in a team > then no support …. The will most likely always be a support spot in a team ….
So this does´t mean ele is in a good spot an fun to play …

You are right, support isn’t useless. It is just that engie and druid do it strictly better.

Compared to both of these options:

Eles:
+ Cleanse more condis
+ Heal slightly more than engie, less than druid
- Have less hard mitigation for themselves
— Have way less map mobility, so inevitably lose out in the rotation game
— Have way less damage
—Have way less res capability than either (less invuln, no gyro res/stomp, no pet to dps for cover).
— Cannot win any 1v1s against anyone, can only stalemate a fight if caught 1v1. Cannot escape if +1’d.

The benefits are very minor, while the minuses are EXTREMELY large and significant. It is no wonder why every team has druid+scrapper, or will in the next couple weeks.

To put it simply, ele is stricly a worse support option now that it is less tanky, forced into melee-range, does less damage while in melee range, and survives less well to burst pressure. A lot of this comes from having an unviable specialization weapon, while both specializations have arguably OP weapons (scapper hammer has so much hard mitigation, pressure, mobility, and CC, while Druid staff gives RtL that blasts and evades on a 12s CD, good pressure, some decent cc, and an extra water-field to boot).

Oh well, maybe next go-around they won’t be so clueless with the class specialization, but given how hard they failed this time (just making a more boring and slightly tweaked version of what eles already did), I have exactly 0 faith.

Agree…they simply don’t care about our feedback here

So we got new ranked…patch…AND BIG WE DON’T care from any balance/pvp team for ele…who care’s on our feedback any way…

Little update on my research:

Diviner and Seeker are horrible but boon duration thing is tempting. If 40% protection somehow can keep you alive on such glass amulets I wondered what happens if add some vitality and toughness. This is my little test build:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBIhdSxA05A2fJYhJwhJW2AMiVwFYEM8ACAFQ396fdwC-TJBGAB5XGQhTAwI7PAwDAAA

Update: Mender works so much better! I didn’t had problems with thiefs/revs power bursts

Update: Arcane version – condi removal suck but boon uptime is insane – build feels like old celestial bit…with better support. Weird thing – in few matches I had top condi applied so maybe maybe sage or carrion might better to check
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJBIhdSfJ05A2fJYhJwhJW2AshHQAoA6uX/rD2iewG8GA-TJxHABcs/g8lBG4BAAwJAAA

Personally i would prefer Toughness version of mender like this:
+1050 Power
+1050 Precision
+560 Toughness
+560 Healing Power

more dps, less tanky, less supportive but still supportive, more bruiser style like rest of meta

Xillllix.3485:

Do you guys think something is being done at Anet to fix this situation or that we’ll have to ditch the class for another 6 months?

Who knows, class balance team don’t say a thing about this, don’t care about ele class subforum…they might do something or not. If i have to bet on something I think they are waiting for builds that appear at word’s qualifiers.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

so further playing with ele, the removal of cleric amulet IMO is fine. what i dont agree is the nerf of CD reduction traits., but i think that nerf is rooted in pve not pvp. care my fellow ele players to disagree or agree with me and what other players think?

To simply put – magi is bad for ele. Why?

In game we have two types of defence – soft ones and hard ones

Ele excels in soft defences like healing, regeneration, damage reduction from earth trait and has easy ways to get protection. Most of these you use after you took damage or by passive work of trait.

Hard ways to defend against damage are ways to negate all damage and these are blocks, blind, invulnerability, reflect (only ranged damage) evades, stunbrakers (kinda) and resistance.

So why again magi is bad? Magi is zero defence against power builds so atleast there are 5 class’es (Rev, Thief, Engi, Guard, Druid) that WILL kill ele if both of players are similar skilled. Magi WOULD HAVE WORKED if ele had hard ways to defend against power damage and ele suck at this. Class has to 2 invulnerability skills – Obsidian Flesh and Mist Form (to take it you sacrifice one heal for teammates), almost zero blind (not on dagger at least and you need to take fire traits for some – so no earth or water traits good luck with that), two doges (thief’s and revs are laughing at you), 3 block’s (again you sacrifice one heal for teammates and you can take trait from arcane so it’s same problem like with fire traits).

You want to play support and want to take magi, ok. Then you have to heal your teammates really well because they will HAVE TO DO EXTRA your part of job at killing people. So why people should take build that proplably won’t do it’s job after few autoattacks (thief, rev) or after focused burst, dies and team instantly has to fight outnumbered?

Just LOOK HOW WELL MENDER WORKS ON DRUID!. It’s smillar amulet but works wonders on that class! WHY? Because skilled druid can you use in right time and right place sygnet of stone, two doges, and 1…2..3..4 evades on sword/dagger to negate power burst completely so he can do he’s job at healing, ressing, roaming, bunkering (1vs1 at mostly) and dps’sing thanks to pet mechanics. How ele on magi can compere to THIS? Even bunker guardian is better because he pukes with blocks every second.

Jourdelune.7456:

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318:

Maby if one refines the build to have more access to swiftness and mobility, u can have a roamer that+1’s kinda like the power shatter chronomancer.

still looking into it. I have not entirely given up on it.

Rune of radiance?

Hmm interesting…but the problem with amulet is that gives about 30% cirt chance so it force you to take air aura traits…hmm fresh air, add earth and maybe something something something…but you kinda need focus to stay alive and addition boon duration will only give warhorn grandmaster trait…

Cecilia.5179:

Zelulose.8695:

But what if he is actually part of this controversial, mysterious balance team? We technically have no concrete knowledge of who is doing the balance. They need to let us communicate to the people involved and those involved in actual skill balance need to be the ones responding to us. Not the messenger boys who currently do.

As far as I know, Karl is in charge of ele balance. That’s probably why the negativity is mostly pinned on him.

To be honest it’s hard to say how much Karl influenced ele balance. Most of ele’s remember him being owned by svanir during tempest presentation.

I would just add some aoe markers

Warhorn in my opinion is not bad – they only problem that it’s clunky. You hardly every know if you can hit with it something and you have to face tank everything.

Base healing nerfed so no sustain from tempest on marauder …
Overloads will force you to be closer to fight so you risks like thief being cleaved.
Traits adds nothing to support dps better…

Basically every core build is better without this specs.

Spartacus.3192:

@Grouch make some amulets class specific rather than removing them.

See post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Make-amulets-only-some-classes-can-use/first#post6265453

This would be probably the easiest way to fix ele problems right now – just give ele exclusive celestial till proper dps could be developed.

On other hand clearly pvp team didn’t had clue how cleric removal will effect tempest (and lack of communications between class balance team) I doubt they will be competent enough to give proper exclusive amulets on other classes -i just imagined magi for warrior. I know this sounds harsh but this is better explanation then they destroyed ele on purpose.

I wonder when this situation for ele’s will be fixed if warrior’s needed two seasons to be fixed and get amulet that works for them. Something tells me that in season 6…

Is my dream build bugmancer ele is going to happened!? I wanna make every rev hiting me with sword 2 bluescreen to death.

Jokeing or not this looks intresting i will check it after work!

State of ele was obvious for months and literally wasn’t obvious for pvp team what will happen to ele? Is there no communication between pvp team and profession balance team?

It’s almost like ,,hey let’s speed up game, remove amulet! Tempest too much heals so no cleric, ele’s will make something new"

Columbo.5924:

I think most of the Ele community have already seen this video a dozen times over, but it has suddenly become relevant again almost 4 years after it was created:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

+1!

I know it’s sucks to main ele right now so let’s light up the mood with some jokes.

What is the the easiest way to kill ele in pvp?

Use moa…rangers pet.

UnitedChaos.8364:

Why did every class get a slate-wide buff while rangers received a ton of garbage pet fluff? Ranger received zero quality of life. Ah, favoritism.

You always could get ele balance treatment and don’t have any builds to use… ok maybe for suicide ( in pvp) .

As for Ele main left behind pve when raids where introduced and HoT showed it’s little replay value…

Patch killed completely pvp ele by amulet change, nerfs and zero rework and no buffs to even make alternative builds to compete in unchanged meta game. In this game build, in this meta and in pvp ELE IS DEAD. Patch was so horrible and unfair that I look with hate at game and don’t bothered to see new story or new map.

Great post!

“I am not asking for Cleric/Celestial Amulet to be returned. I just want a decent non-bunker competitive-tier viable DPS build for Tempests to go along with the upcoming High-risk high-reward meta. We will certainly see people use Magi Amulets but there are many players who are sick of being healbots. Tempests should not be locked to a single viable boring healbot build.”

I personally want to add it’s not of issue of ele being in meta or not. Right now class literally dead in every aspect of gw 2 pvp.

One thing is for sure – you won’t see many ele’s…if any at all

Your might be right guys but i still wanna look in boon duration effect on class but as for diviner this amulet seems garbage…

So I made this experimental build because i wondered why we have two new amulets.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWnMMAdOg9XCWYC8RgFRAbIAMASgEdgEQFwNtGXrrA-T5AFABAcBAaf/hFeAAAA
Site don’t support new patch so put seeker in amulet place. I found that with new amulets it’s extreamly easy to maintain perma protection. Made build for +1’ing and team figting. No 1v1. Gameplay is similar as Sunshine described zerk Staff. Use GS for rotating faster ( so don’t spam it at start).

This amulet is kinda weird and I wondered why arena put it in pvp. I test it on old auramancer build and poof – I had always permanent protection (like 27s didn’t even try to stack it). Any thoughts guys?

Still amulet seems like a bad idea – I tested in few matches and against my pro thief friend and my ele simply exploded in seconds. But maybe in Diviner is some hint how to develop something workable.

It might be troll post.

Azukas.1426:

Let’s see your opinions on who made out and who just got the shaft:

Winners
1. Mesmer – Buffed in all aspects of the class….lol
2. Guardians – Looks like good changes to help this struggling class
3. Warriors – somehow avoided the nerf bat and remain faceroll stronk
4. Druids – Your support meta class and you can keep pet names ^^

Losers
1. Thief – eh you nerfed this class? wtf
2. Ele – BOOM (though watch another OP build will be discovered)
3. Engi – Might now require a thought process to play now?

Wrong in one spot – there was no buff or reworks for eles so whole class is DEAD in pvp

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Well, not really, but title will annoy lots of people and that is fun.

This explains why?

Vinegaroon.4369:

I guess anet was thinking “since none of you can kill eles, we’ll do it for you”.

It was like ,,Let’s kill amber/emerald problem with nuke!"

style.6173:

Mr Godlike.6098:

Patch seems more like pvp class removal then ,,balance" from elementalist perspective.

Actually eles just now actually have to play vs just standing on point living forever.

Wrong – state of ele is right like this:

1. ele vs anything in pvp – dies
2. ele bunkers node – dies
3. ele suports – dies
4. ele enters match – dies

No matter what amulet, no matter what traits and skills have ele will DIE – druid staff auto attack will blast ele in deep space…

Thanks for removing entire ele pvp population from game.