Guild Wars 2

0:47:30 Rough transcode.

Symbolic: Is there any chance of slightly buffing bombs in the future..ughhhh. like making them unblockable or bugging the power damage or something like that.. cuz the bomb(?) grenade outshine bombs. They win everywhere.(?)

Jon Peters: The thing right there, I think you hit it in the head is that grenades are really powerful compared to everything else. It is almost like you have to bring Grenades for most builds for an engi. umm… we also seen stuff like if your playing kylo the stuff that engi can do like against enemy targets..up on a.. if you jump on a wall you can just throw..lob over grenades to deal with a target without ever having to commit to a fight so it’s just really strong. so i thinks it’s more of engi grenade kit might need to be looked at instead of everything else getting buffed maybe that need to come down a little bit…(heavy sigh typing )but like there is a lot of skill to the grenade kit, if you guys have played it, you need to think ahead of where you need to be for where the grenade hits..so that’s something we need to be looking at….blah blah blah

Seems to me Jon Peters wants to nerf Grenade Kit. I tend to agree with him.

If they nerf Sigil of battle just go Sigil of Strength. Reason #34134625 to run Grenades.

Funny that they nerf Incendiary powder again.

Not sure how I feel about new heal turret till i see it. Looks like its moving toward more support then selfish heal.

I agree with developers Grenade Kit needs to be nerfed.

I have a good feeling about Scope getting fixed maybe not this patch but defiantly by the next one.

Honestly they need to nerf Grenades not HGH if anything.

That would be awesome ddoi.9264

Toolbox.9375:

I actually don’t use HGH or Static Discharge at all in my build, but as I said above, I’d just completely cut the game off at that point. Such a thing would make it clear that the developers are just plain targeting Engineer builds for cats and giggles. I don’t have the time or patience to deal with that.

There is some truth to this. Not to give you conspiracy theorist more material.

November 15th path – Pieces targeted at Teldo’s Condi build

March 2th patch – Pieces targeted at GuanglaiKangyi’s Kit Refinement Spam Build

Evidence:

Nov 15th

*Toss Elixir R: This skill’s recharge is increased from 85 seconds to 120 seconds.

*Smoke Bomb: This skill’s radius has been reduced to 180 from 240 when traited. Smoke Bomb is now active for 4 seconds, pulsing every 2. This change also affects the Autodefense Bomb Dispenser trait

*Incendiary Powder: This trait now states that it can only trigger once every 3 seconds.

The three biggest nerfs from the November patch all part of Teldo build.

March 26th patch:

*Grenadier trait: No longer removes the recharge when the player stows the Grenade Kit.

*Kit Refinement trait: Reworked kit skills to balance their effectiveness. All kit skills are now on a static global recharge (20 seconds).

The Grenadier trait bug was mentioned by me in the guru thread. Post #8
Didn’t help that people were using this build for wvw. Guang showed one of the ways to maximize the damage output of kit refinement. To be near warrior like damage. Which of course engineer is not suppose to do.

So yea I’m pretty sure they do target builds when they make changes. Most of the time destroying the build. HGH will just be another strong build that they will nerf. Engineer is running out of strong builds.

nakoda.4213:

question:

how has HGH magically been douchified and FOTM all of a suddens when it is the one build that has worked as is since release?

answer:

it hasn’t.

Let me clarify, that part of your statement is incorrect. HGH hasn’t work as is since release it got buffed on Dec 14th patch. Also I wouldn’t scuff at a potential 4 extra might stacks which gets even better depending on your boon duration.

Elixir X needs to just give stability or since Anet loves RNG Stability, protection or Stealth The transformations all suck unless you under water and get tornado. Land tornado is good for trolling in WvW.

Mortar is a good concept just needs some usability tweaks.

not true nakoda.4213. They buffed HGH during the Dec 14th patch.

• HGH: Drinking an elixir now grants two stacks of might instead of one.

I met quite a few engineers that use the trait and never knew it was bugged.

I agree digiowl. The fact that you throw 3 grenades makes it invaluable Kit even if it did the same or less damage as the others. The Vulnerability stacking on Grenades is quite strong due to the interaction between Steel-packed powder and 3 grenades flying every ~.8 seconds. Also Sharpnel trait interaction with Grenade Kit spam. 15 target aoe limit instead of normal 5. I can go on and on.

Agreed it should be buffed.

It is not weak but it is tedious. Also there are alot of Grenade Specs but they all have 30 points into Explosives.

Power Shoes – Inventions VIII – 25% Faster Movement speed in Combat
Leg Mods – Tools X – Move 10% Faster while using an unarmed kit.

I like the Mine kit idea. The others seems either too strong or not necessary.

Here is my char.

Well 100 nades was one of the many builds where AOE damage > single target damage. So it was an easy first target for the AOE nerf.

Never mind how ideal the situation would have to be inorder to hit more then 1 person. As the developer pointed out where the Engineer is a certain video bursted a cluster of players. They expressed there distaste for such things. So the 100 nade nerf came at no suprise to me. It is easy to think of balance changes in terms of your class and your build and not the overall health of the game.

Grenade Kit nerf is gonna happen sooner or later. It is only a matter of when at this point. Finally put the nail in the dps coffin of the engineer.

If they do anything they will reverse the dec 14th patch HGH buff.

• HGH: Drinking an elixir now grants two stacks of might instead of one.

Probally put that back to one and HGH build will go away from the meta for a while.

Life moves on. The next Fotm build will surface.

You guys are lucky he usually hits me with agony axe. then double melee gouge axe attack then im downed. Someone tries to res me then he throws the agony axe again and dead.

I find that kiting him just takes longer better to burst him down then run around for 30 mins chasing him. although you need lots of aegis ha.

I miss the old smoke bomb with recasting blind every 1 second instead of 2 and the range of the entire node.

:(

Hsinimod.5784:

In no way can I see Grenades as being OP, when I can see others out-do that damage with ease. Only with the synergy of Grenades with other factors do you see it climb. That synergy is in question. Not HGH alone or Grenades alone.

Frankly, my Grenades in my build only hit for as much as my Bombs (30 Explosives). I didn’t min/max them with my gear stat choices. They were simply because I liked the spread and Vulnerability. (pve speaking). They were nerfed long ago. It didn’t affect me much, but I noticed the loss in damage. If they get nerfed again, I’ll be demanding that pvp and pve skills just get split off from each other. As messy as that is, it just doesn’t make sense to balance everything about a class because of subset in pvp.

Any class that can out-range another has an advantage.
Any class that can cast multiple AoEs has an advantage.
Any class that can do decent front-loaded damage has an advantage.

When all those fall into 1 build, it will look OP. They are far away, laying down a spread of damage, and it is hurting. LOS is a friend, along with stripping Might, and a good direct burst. Condition and Boon swapping is deadly, or at least deadlocks the point of HGH.

If everyone at high levels of tPvP is running cookie-cutter builds, that is an obvious problem, since they are being predictable. And it means the class design is poor.

Frankly, I don’t see why anyone can self-buff to 25 stacks of anything. It should be a group reaches the total together, but an individual hits around 10 and then the stacks start falling off as fast as a solo person can place back up. Support should be buffed to make up for that, allowing multiple people to combo to full boon stacks of 25. But eh, who knows. I don’t play with the numbers.

Even in your post that is trying to defend Grenades. You point to the imbalances of Grenade Kit. Grenade Kit should not out damage Bomb Kit. Melee skills are suppose to deal more damage then range ones because of the risk involved.

Your 3 points about any class are all true if you just equip the Grenade Kit.
Grenade Kit sit at the max range possible.
Grenade Kit throws 3 AOE per toss with a decent spread.
Grenade Barrage one of strongest front load damage skills. So much so that we lost the Grenade Barrage on Kit refinement.

Should Grenade Kit be nerfed? No, reworked which in some cases it means nerfed, but overall easier to use in all cases. Although that is for another thread.

HGH might stacking is actually not our strongest way of stacking Might but it’s the most popular and easy to pull off. Also other classes can stack might alot easier and take less time then it does with HGH. They dont have to give up all their Utility/Heal slot cds too.

I had this happen before on my glass cannon Engineer. So +1 for the DPS theory.

HGH is not OP as I wrote in my post. It is the interaction with Grenade kit + HGH that makes it strong (READ: NOT OP). This speaks more about the power of the Grenade kit then HGH itself.

I don’t think giving turret’s boons is the solution.
All the boons would have to be rebalanced for turrets.

Regeneration would be too strong as turret base hp is low
Retaliation…so many pages of QQ
Stability useless
Aegis.. yea no
Swiftness.. kitten
Vigor.. useless
Fury..useless
Protection.. decent but low duration

Allowing turrets to gain boons would be mostly useless and some cases too powerful. It would create more problems then it helps solve.

Allow turrets to give boons would be a balancing nightmare. If the opponent can not kill the turrets then the players in the turret clusterkitten would have boons for days. Especially in this game where players love to exploit the terrain to their advantage. Besides we already have Perma regeneration from Heal turret.

None of these suggestions actually address the underlining issue with turrets.

Here is an idea that doesn’t have terrible balance implications. Allow turrets to have the armor value of the player. This way it rewards players for traiting into Inventions for more toughness and increases the effectiveness of the 30% trait which would be a bit less effective as allowing turrets to have protection.

waka.9826:

NickDollahZ.5348:

Turrets are not designed to be pets or clones or spirits for that matter. They were designed to be zone defenders. The reason they are so weak is because of they have to be balanced when used in conjunction with other turrets and the whole PVP balance = PVE balance. Turrets are suppose to give your opponents a tough time when they enter their zone.

I think alot of players not necessarily you are trying to make them into something they are not. They are not buff totems or utility skills that you use once for the effect then blow up/pick up.

I don’t think you even read my thread at all. I didn’t mention even one time to make them buff totems, why would I blow up a turret I just gave protection?

I don’t think you read my post.

In the situations that you specified, Grenades and turrets both do a great job in forcing your opponent to leave the node/spot being bombarded. I’d argue that they wouldn’t out right kill you. At least not anymore that 100 nades is gone.

Which bring up a whole different point of using the terrain to your advantage to deny your opponent a node with 1500 range. Whether or not that is balanced has nothing to do with HGH. It speaks to rather or not Grenades themselves are balanced. Which is a good question for another thread.

As far as sidekick build, I think there alot of other classes/build that can destroy a CC’d opponent. I believe grenades are the strongest ranged AOE damage skill in the game.

Turrets are not designed to be pets or clones or spirits for that matter. They were designed to be zone defenders. The reason they are so weak is because of they have to be balanced when used in conjunction with other turrets and the whole PVP balance = PVE balance. Turrets are suppose to give your opponents a tough time when they enter their zone.

I think alot of players not necessarily you are trying to make them into something they are not. They are not buff totems or utility skills that you use once for the effect then blow up/pick up.

Not a big fan of HGH builds. The way it stacks Might, forces me to blow all my utility skills. It gives a lot of burst at the beginning of the fight. Although you have to reuse all your utility skills to maintain might stacks. This takes too much time in a fight and really cuts down on your dps as you cant attack while buffing unless you use the laughable Acidic Elixirs.

I moved on from HGH build long ago. So they can nerf it to the ground for all I care, but honestly other classes and builds do it better.

4 months or so still looking for fractal rifle skin… RNG is the best.

Weird the next Fractal I did dropped a Shield skin and a Forgiveness Dye. Scary Coincidence.

Honestly I want “Skills that activate this trait can now activate in midair.” unfixed. So I can switch kits without using the effect if I dont want to.

The Cooldown for the trait is okay for certain effects. For others it kinda sucks. So I would suggest either taking off maybe 5 seconds off the GCD or Bump the effects of the weaker procs by a bit.

Nilix.2170:

An AOE interrupt that pulls people into one place sounds very exploitable.

Temporal Curtain anyone?

Same feeling for me. I made a mesmer leveled him to 80 geared him out… 120g later bored of him and going back to my engineer.

I only see them nerfing Grenade Kit again. If anything. If they do some sweeping changes. I hope they buff the single target options.

Berserker stats will always be the best for damage. Only time I would consider non Berserker stats is if I can achieve 100% crit chance. Even then I would do it with mostly Berserker gear.

As far as defensive stats you want to aim for 10:1 ratio aka 10 hp to 1 armor. Which means Engineer need vitality the most. Base stats: 1980 armor 15,082 hp. This doesnt account for healing skills. The more often you heal the better toughness gets.

Hope that helps.

PS. http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/engineer/ is a good site to compare your builds with.

1) no
2) Regen buff comes from heal turret, elixir gun toolbelt, 5 pts in inventions, elixir h, also from triats and skll that grant random boons.

Anet:I heard you like hidden internal cooldowns, so we put some hidden internal cooldowns on your hidden internal cooldowns.

Engineers: QQ

On a serious note, hidden internal cooldowns on hidden internal cooldowns is bad game design. It is like Arena Net is trying hard to not become a esport. There are more approiate ways to nerf kit refinement. This is not one of them. My hope is Arena Net will revisit this change during the March patch.

I’m actually experimenting with a bomb heal build. Ill give you more feedback once I tested it in 40+ fractal and some of the harder content.

inb4 if it only takes a week to fix engi bugs why arent they fixed…
serious note…

Arena net should just assign one guy to fixing bugs. one class at a time per patch until they are all gone. Although I think most of the developer resources are spent making the next content update. Would be nice to have a month where they dedicated the entire patch to fixing bugs.

Grenadier has no unequip recharge time when Grenadier trait is used. Only tested in pve.

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Tyler why did u have to fix this bug of all things… I enjoyed my Perma Fury/swiftness…The engineer forums is gonna be qqing for weeks again. T_T

Edit: @Tyler if you can hit all those Engineer bugs and get them all fixed. You will be a god among Engineer players.

1% for each type

Still bugged for me.

Good Point Oakwind. From my experience if another quickness procs during another the second one will override the duration. Learned this the hard way using elixir U during timewarp.

Only the toss Elixir U doesn’t work sometimes usually on uneven terrain.

We have more pressing bugs to deal with TBH. This trait is a freebie. Although would be nice to get it fixed eventually.

In due time, they tend not to make to many changes in one patch.

This change bugs me because its quite sloppy way to nerf it. I would much rather have a more elegant change. Maybe they will add a icon to show if the kit refinement is on cd. As this will become very confusing for the average player.

I think you are looking way to hard to find something to complain about.

Scope is still bugged from my testing. Q_Q

Yeah, I’m not seeing this 10 second cd. Although I don’t normally use the 100nade build.

So I might be missing something… I can greande barrage and then swap to flamethrower or toolkit and both effects work….