Introduction:
Okay so I’m Necro’ing this thread from page 2 of our forums because I’ve encountered some new information or rather I’ve adopted a new stance on the PU Mesmer. First a little about me and my setup to validate my tests and environment: I have been playing Guild Wars 2 since launch as a Ranger and possess rudimentary knowledge of the Mesmer class, having played a Mesmer infrequently over the past 1.5 months. My PC is capable of running GW2 on ‘High’ settings without issue. I have been using a Razer Naga Epic gaming mouse for over four years and I am adept at using this hardware. My ping remains steady at around 60-70. There are no issues of lag or hardware problems. Here is what I’ve learned…
Analysis:
As a typical ranger of average skill (and questionably of reasonable intelligence) I set out to test how Ranger fares against PU Mesmers in a WvW environment in 1v1 situations. Over the course of several days I selected four PU Mesmers from the enemy server to duel by whispering them and requesting a duel behind the southern borderlands camp. These mesmers agreed and were all condition based. In these fights I tried two different builds commonly used by rangers in WvW. Each player was dueled 3 times. First I tried going full zerker (Ascended).
This didn’t work at all against condi PU Mesmers. Even with “Sic ’Em!” they were able to shrug off my hardest hitting attacks as they were able to stack toughness and vitality to mitigate the damage. I noticed that I never landed more than a 5k hit when I can typically crit for over 7k on cloth armored targets without resistance. This was usually what happened for the first round against each opponent.
For the second and third rounds in each series I switched to a LB Trapper build with trapper runes. I adjusted my build accordingly. I noticed that traps were significantly more effective against mesmers especially when they provided the advantage of granting stealth and super speed. A few duels lasted as long as 20 minutes before the mesmer was able to whittle me down or before I just got bored and reckless. I did not have the opportunity to test full dire or condition centric gear personally. I did notice that even though the mesmer knew quite clearly they were walking towards traps they did not stop and were able to recover or reset the fight through hiding in stealth.
On an occasion separate from my personal tests I observed my clan mate duel two different PU Mesmers using a similar LB trap build while using full condi gear. His results were also the same and he was defeated in much the same manner. Power build mesmers are a completely different story, however. It appears that being able to reveal them leaves power mesmers with fewer ways to recover or escape and due to their lack of toughness they are easily defeatable with power ranger builds. If they do manage to survive while “Sic ’em!” Is on cooldown however, your chances of survival are severely diminished, especially without toughness or healing power.
Conclusion (aka TL;DR):
It is my opinion now that rangers of average skill level or those who do not consider themselves able to compete at a tournament level with an appropriate build specifically tailored to engage and defeat PU Condition Mesmers refrain from fighting them in an open WvW scenario in a 1v1 fight as it will undoubtedly lead to the Ranger’s defeat. If at all possible melee range should be explicitly avoided at all costs against players running condition mesmer builds. Power mesmers should also be treated with caution and awareness and a ranger should have extensive practice before fighting or approaching power mesmers of the aforementioned variety.
Implications:
Sample size is small and there is little to no verifiable or empirical data. Most data in this post is based upon qualitative data and personal conjecture. This report is subject to peer review.
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What if it worked with Lead the Wind? Allow it to poison all the targets the arrow passes through. Apply poison to five targets instead of one?
Holland.9351 is the great Druid Prophet.
More like:
Thief revealed!
Beta weekend!
Major updates to all revealed classes!
Engineer revealed!
Break!
Beta weekend!
Major updates to all revealed classes!
Ranger revealed!
Release!
6 month break!
Minor bug fixes!
6 months break!
balance update!
We’re still on track.
I was in the OP’s shoes until just recently within the last couple of months or so. I felt helpless against mesmers and thieves and believed defeating them was utterly impossible for Rangers. I adapted my playstyle, learned more about mesmers (playing one for a week or so), and adjusted my traits accordingly. Now I am at the point where I can attack a Mesmer with confidence and think “This guy is getting fragged so hard.”
If I lose, I’ll know it’s because of a mistake I made, because Mesmers don’t have nearly the amount of survivability we rangers do.
Ultimately this is not a one-size-fits-all problem and there are numerous solutions, but truthfully the OP is going to have to do a bit of research and practice in his own to find a solution that works best for him.
Absolutely, and don’t knock it until you try it. What exactly about my build is bad? The fact I’m running full zerker? Well then just add in some toughness or vitality I guess. NBD there.
Secondly, if one is standing around making the mistake of waiting for the mesmer to exit stealth then you’ve already lost. No matter what gear or traits you have. My best suggestion is to look on YouTube for some Ranger v. Mesmer fights or watch these match ups in game.
Edit: I also saw a build probably on the Ranger build compilation thread that used two clerics rings and maybe defender runes? That would work fantastic with survivability. Can’t look it up atm.
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When the Mesmer blinks and gains reflection that’s when you should be switching to GS and attacking them with quickness (either by pet swap or quickening zephyr). Reflect doesn’t work against melee and if they’re getting defensive enough they feel the need to blink away, then you have them on the ropes.
Agreed. When the Mesmer exits stealth, all bets are off. Use “Sic ’em!” And barrage them to hell. Cripple effects are a big problem for them, same with chill.
Some people will tell you that the best offense is a good defense. False. The best offense… Is offense.
This is the exact build that I run that I’ve found tremendous success with. The mix of shouts and survival skills really compliment each other and you’ll notice your pet makes a far greater contribution to keeping the mesmer and their clones manageable.
If you need help in-game mail or add me. Nicknobreak
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What the heck is happening with #RangerGate? The editor pulled the article, probably for one of two reasons. The first is it didn’t meet their quality standards, the second is that ArenaNet made a phone call and politely requested it get pulled. They probably can’t handle bad press with HoT out next month
I was browsing 10 Ton Hammer this morning and found this article interesting. Would like to know what the developers think of this, that’s for sure.
ArenaNet, I’ve just about had it. This message is being written and is specifically directed to the class balance developers. I’ve been playing as a Ranger since day ONE. This class has always gotten the short end of the stick. The Specialization patch was the final straw. Classes were far more balanced before it than they ever will be again.
I’m tired of being 2-hit killed by thieves, bursted down by PU mesmers, and condi stacked by Necros with no means of countering any of it. WvW is a joke. I haven’t even stepped foot in a PvP lobby since the patch because I’m too embarrassed to show up as the WORST CLASS IN GW2 to any PvP match. PvE dungeons and fractals? Rangers are always picked last, like a bad game of high school dodge ball.
Until Mesmers, Thieves, and Rangers get adjusted so that they are ALL more or less on the same balanced level, I’m going to play Planetside 2. I’m not logging in anymore. I’m not buying your expansion. I’m not buying gems. I’m not doing anything until you MAKE YOUR GAME FAIR FOR ALL CLASSES!
I’ll give Daybreak Games my money instead. I’ll speak with my wallet. This is my last post until I see some huge improvements in the patch notes.
Portga D Ace is a really good WvW ranger. He hasn’t posted any new videos post specializing patch though. I did learn a lot about positioning and rotation from his videos.
LOL! Nope. DH won’t be able to hold a candle to LB ranger. You’ll see. Will these Guardians be tough as s@%#. Yup. They’ll tank like a fortress. They’ll be obnoxious with their new toy bow but I highly doubt they’ll be able sustain damage and ranged pressure like the current LB Ranger can. I couldn’t agree with Runeblade more.
Greatsword is stupendous. Has a block/retaliate/cripple, stun/daze, on demand leap, big cleave attack, decent AA. Are these moves somewhat predictable? Yeah, but that can be alleviated by using QZ. Can’t dodge attacks with such a short time to react.
Would it be feasible to have like a 3-5 seconds reveal on LB3 or maybe SB4? Or both? The only reveal skill we have is Sic ’em. Just a thought.
Was thinking of thief so I can transfer all my ascended gear over but mesmer is better and more obnoxious and my WvW guild has more use of mesmers.
All I want is to burst people down to 50% HP in two seconds flat as soon as I pop out of stealth.
“One of the most annoying-to-fight builds of all time, ever.
Deals immense condition damage and boasts exceptional survivability with escapes, raw resilience, stealth and sustainment. Also excels at easily clearing camps."
I would like to play as whatever that build is.
Is this better? http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mesmer_-_Burst_Shatter_
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No not trolling. Totally rerolling mesmer.
When I roll as a Mesmer i won’t even have to learn to play. GG
What’s a better build?
K thanks for the advice guy with 5 mesmers. You have been a big help.
I’m planning on re-rolling as a Mesmer for WvW and PvP. Used to play Ranger but there’s no point. Is this the low-skill/high-reward build everyone is running now? What gear/runes are best? What is the rotation? Serious questions. Haven’t played mesmer before.
Ugh seriously. It’s been three years. Can’t we just all get the Hall of Monuments pets now? Too much work and not worth the effort to go back to GW1 and get the points for it.
Anyways, I run Sylvan Hound and Juvenile Wolf for WvW but not because they are the optimal choice. Just because I like goggies. :>
I’m a stubborn son of a gun and gosh dangit I hate to lose and more than that I HATE TO QUIT! I don’t want to quit playing as a ranger. I don’t want to play another class because in my eyes that’s giving up and admitting defeat. I created my ranger because that’s who I am and that’s what I understand. I’m a man that’s been passionate about archery for over twelve years of my life. It’s sad to see the Ranger in such a poor state from my perspective. It’s like the developers are saying, “You and the sport you’ve invested over a decade in are not important. Archery is laughable and you should be ashamed.”
I don’t want to play another class, but what else can I do? I wouldn’t even know what class to play. I don’t relate to any of the other classes like I do my ranger.
Let’s be honest. We’ve got the coolest darn mechanic in the whole freaking game. Who needs friends when you can have A LOYAL VIRTUAL PET? ! You don’t even have to feed the dang thing. Fantastic mechanic, just needs to be tweaked. Every other class dislikes ranger because they’re peanut butter and jealous they don’t get to have floofy dogs and LOLcats.
I took clarion bond in WS and traited into skirmishing. I’ll shoot mosquitoes and rabbits then switch pets and weapons. Therefore, infinite swiftness. If there are no critters around I’ll peg a monster with Hunter’s Shot and recall my pet so i stay out of combat.
Also using pack runes for longer swiftness duration.
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Such a hater. Haters keep on hatin’.
You’re obviously going to want a LB build because that’s one of the main ways rangers are useful in zergs is through back line sniping and support. Conditions are useless as there’s so much condi cleanse.
The rest is up to you but i recommend not traiting into BM as your pet spends half of the major fights dead.
Elite traps would be sweet. O.O Harkens back to the good Ole GW1 days. Also interrupt and choking gas rangers were the best.
Unfortunately it will never happen because the forum rage would be so real that rangers got new stuff and other classes didn’t. Maybe for a future expansion
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It’s not that Rangers are a bad class, it’s just that literally every other class is better than Ranger.
Lol yup, first time I read about Chronomancer I nearly gagged with how stupidly OP the skills sound. I might just do the one thing I swore I’d never do and reroll Mesmer.
First, you need to accept a few things, and these won’t be easy pills to swallow.
You must be willing to accept that you have to fight fire with fire. You should be going full glass as well. LB/GS with an appropriate build is adequate.
Secondly, accept that it is impossible to defeat a Mesmer in a fair 1v1 fight. You will never win by standing your ground. As soon as they go into stealth, you should be running away and retreating. Every SECOND they are in stealth they are gaining boons. Before you know it, they pop out of stealth with 20+ stacks of might and down you in two seconds flat. You will not win.
Your best bet is to hope they’re stupid and engage you with no stealth at all. Use a stealth reveal trap in WvW or gang up on them with two or more players. Leave nothing to chance.
Try using Sic ’Em before they stealth and burst them down as fast as possible, you only have 6 seconds. That still might not work.
If all else fails, pray to your God every night before bed the developers fix this issue and/or stop PvP’ing against mesmers.
I will concede that rangers are in a better place than they were previously, but I will also argue that all the progress this class has gained is far and beyond overshadowed by the immense improvements other classes received thereby negating any semblance of balance that there once was.
Rangers may be decent roamers, only behind thieves, mesmers, elementalists, and medi guardians, but 5th place isn’t bad if you consider that “top tier”
Yes. But especially the Burst DPS and survivability potential. I won’t go too into detail.
Yup, because if you’re convinced that Rangers are in a good spot, you’d be mistaken. Name for me three Professional players who competed in the World Tournament Series who played predominately as ranger.
Are there ANY WvW guilds worth there salt that actively recruit rangers over any other class?
Are there or are there not common or regular instances where the Ranger is removed from a dungeon party or told NOT to join because their damage is not on par with others in a PvE environment?
The answers to these questions are very obvious without having to explain why.
Really? I mean, are we talking about the same class here? Wait... Really?
Your response is, as I imagine it, given in the same tone a coach would give to a decathlon competitor after they came in last for every single event.
"Cheer up, Charlie Brown." Says Lucy, "You’ll kick that football next time! Remember how good you were at kicking soccer balls? Kicking a football is like the same thing!"
I just can’t even see it. Who the heck were you fighting? Elderly people filming for a "Grandparents react to Guild Wars 2" video?
You don’t even need video evidence. Just play as literally any other class, go into WvW and pick a fight with a ranger. Then collect your loot. Repeat.
And then there’s THIS GUY! Seriously, who the heck let the OP in here? Stay out of the Ranger forums and don’t come back. Go back to praising Robert Gee for buffing Mesmers to God tier, or thanking devs for cooldown reductions for shield skills. You’ve probably never played as a Ranger a day in your life.
The stealth is just entirely ridiculous. There is zero counter play against it and the insane burst damage from thieves and mesmers in WvW makes them impossible to contend with.
I tried mixing some toughness into my gear along with a bit of healing power but the way things are right now I found I go down just as fast as rolling with full zerker stats. It’s kind of sad really.
Yup, great video editing. LB 1 super balanced too. Not OP. Do you ever have any concerns about movement speed in WvW? Do you regret not taking SotH or Traveler runes? Just curious.
We should just get new skills instead of traps and spirits. They will never be balanced to a point where they will be helpful.
Cufufalating probably has the closest build to what I was having trouble fighting. I’m rather sure they traited into enlargement because in two separate fights SotW was activated the moment their HP hit 50%.
Since the patch, I’ve been getting dropped within what feels like seconds. I’ve tried swapping out QZ with SoS and tweaking my build but it doesn’t make a huge difference.
Alright so for the longest time I’ve been looking for a good WvW build. One that can hold its own in 1v1 fights as well as working in a zerg when needed. The other night, I somehow wound up in Obsidian Sanctum. I pwned a warrior. They proceeded to jump on their mesmer and smack talk the crap out of me. They pwned my face.
“Mesmer is clearly broken.” Said Nick the Ranger.
“I’ll fite u on my ranger n00b” Said the jerkface.
And fight me he did. And pwn me he did… Again. On his ranger. Many times over. So I sat there, and I scratched my head for hours. How? When I have full ascended berserker gear, how did they manage to beat me? So I started to watch them duel a guardian. Anyhow, I managed to logically piece together their build trying to figure out weakpoints. I surmised they were using different gear than I was, with more survivability, because I was hitting them for about half my typical damage. Different gear and different runes. A Longbow with a Sword + X (Dagger?) for weapons, the sword being used for dodge rolls. They used bother a murello and black widow spider, both which use poison, plus the sword, leads me to believe conditions and most notably poison is important in this build. I know they were using skirmishing because they had spotter. They used TU, SoTH, SoS, Entangle. Marksman because Enlargement.
“L2P. ur bad n00b” said the jerkface
TL;DR Can anyone help me fill in the gaps to determine this build?
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-J;5F;1f2cDF-0;9V4S;1ZY_;13-03;9;9;4Fv;0w6g
P.S. If you’re reading this, Good Fight (Blackgate?) Jade Quarry Veteran.
Guard is a useless shout, the frozen ground trap is trash, and I’m sure sic ‘em is used more often now but still not that great. I’d like to see a resurgence of preparations
Well, I won’t go too into detail but the beauty of having pets is you get to pick two of ’em and switch in combat. If your current pet is low on HP call it back (F3) or switch. Otherwise pick a pet with more vitality or toughness or trait into Natural Regeneration.
Toby, IMO I think it’s better to use Go For the Eyes for the added blindness. Use Troll Unguent for the added condi cleanse and fury.