Guild Wars 2

Thedenofsin.7340:

There is no meta-game in WvW, at all.

Have more people and better timezone coverage.

brentend.7058:

What program or schema did you use to model this? If you don’t mind me asking.

I used ‘R’, which is a statistical programming language.

brentend.7058:

A quick look at the numbers seems that the init return is under-performing the theoretical in both current and proposed methods for 1s:

Looking at the the first graph at 1s and 25% crit shouldn’t the theoretical be .25*.3*1=0.075 init/s while the graph shows ~0.07. At 50% with similar calculation it should be 0.15 init/s while the graph shows ~0.13.

For the second graph at 1s and 25% crit theoretical calc is 0.125 while it shows ~0.1125. For 50% theoretical is 0.25 while graph shows ~0.2.

I would look at the other cd’s but that seems a little more difficult than a simple calculation. Or maybe the slight reduction is from the added time after cd has finished until the next crit that procs opportunist? In that case shouldn’t the simulated values climb closer to theoretical as crit chance increases, (since increased cc means the next hit that triggers opportunitst is more likely to come sooner)?

Either way really cool results and methodology. I’d be interested in hearing more details about how you did this. I’ve been wanting to try some monte carlo simulations for this kind of setting but haven’t found a good approach to do that. My computer has also been getting lazy recently and needs a workout.

edit:attempts to fix spelling and grammar

You are correct, the cooldown keeps the actual amount from reaching the theoretical maximum one would expect given only the proc rate, attack speed, and crit rate. Also, because the crit rate and proc rate are independent, one can miss on the proc despite having 100% crit.

I’ll post the code sometime today when I get a chance to clean it up and add some comments.

Opportunist is one of those weird traits where it’s hard to figure out, intuitively, what exactly you’re getting. On the other hand, taking it is a bit of a no-brainer since it’s a minor in the best trait tree.

Now that it’s slated to be nerfed, the question arises: ‘How much is enough?’. Fortunately, it’s easy to approximate the initiative gain in its current and proposed states.

Opportunist works like this. If you roll a crit you get a second roll for the trait. If you win that roll you get 1 point of initiative and can’t roll again until the cooldown is done.

Right now that sits at 30% chance to proc on crit with a 1 second ICD, with the proposed values being 50% with a 5 second ICD. Does the increased proc rate make up for the longer ICD? How much do crit chance and attack speed play into this? We will soon find out.

I programmed a short test using R to simulate attacking continuously for some long period of time. I timed a couple different weapons and found most of them to be around 1 hit per second (more or less), so I modeled the hit rate from 1 to 2 hits per second just to be safe. I varied crit between 5 and 100% and scaled the numbers up to simulate weapons that bounce or cleave. Most importantly, I varied the proc chance (the 30% and 50% values) and the internal cooldown (1 and 5 seconds), so that it would be possible to compare the proposed changes to the current state. At least that’s what I think I did.

The end result of this is a multi-dimensional array of numbers representing the average initiative gained per second over an immensely long period of time (~5.8 days) under varying conditions. Five days is probably overkill but my mom’s basement is cold this time of year so I thought I’d peg my CPUs and kill two birds with one stone.

Plotting these dimensions against each other yields interesting results. For example, if you took a hit rate of 1/s and the current proc rate (30%) against a single target, you could plot crit chance vs initiative/second at varying internal cooldowns.

http://i.imgur.com/O3iPtNX.png
The current case is shown in red (1s ICD).

http://i.imgur.com/iJiz6jY.png
You can also look at what would happen to the curves with a 50% proc rate. The init/s maxes out at a much higher point at the same 1s ICD, around 0.33/s versus 0.23/s at 30%. The proposed curve is in purple (5s ICD).

Comparing the current vs the proposed state looks something like this. You can really see how long ICDs on abilities flatten out the benefit of high crit.
http://i.imgur.com/WKHgR9V.png

As you can see, the current implementation gives much more initiative at higher crit levels thanks to the reduced ICD, whereas the proposed version’s increased proc rate has a small advantage at low crit levels.

Fitting a function to the respective curves shows that a thief with 57% crit hitting one target once every second will go from around 0.218/s to 0.113/s, a decrease of around half.

Ogre runes have a 4% damage modifier.

The damage formulas for calculating damage dealt and the relative contributions of toughness and vitality to EHP are already well known.

You should probably explain, briefly, what part of those calculations are incorrect before you make up a bunch of terms and write 10,000 words about it.

No. It does not possible.

Decrypter.1785:

Stealthasaur.2198:

Nilgoow.1037:

I would agree that if I lose games there is definitely something wrong with the system. I consider myself to be ‘good at games’ and probably in the top 80% of GW2 players by virtue of [fill this in later].

What I’m saying is that I’m good and Anet needs to build a system that recognizes that instead of punishing me personally because they hate me.

Nilgoow from warhammer?

Nope nilgoow the Nub lol

Look at you kittening up quote.

And yes I’m from warhammer. I am literally a tiny figurine that a nerd painted in his basement.

Guys I’m pretty sure this dude is trolling but I’m going to bite on it anyways.

I expected the OP to have a warrior build or something. Grats on exceeding expectations.

I’m going to guess that it’s about scarlet being TOTALLY KA-RAZY XD 2randum for no reason other than a lack of good writers.

I find the same thing to be true. My team always loses, but not only to they lose they are always complaining about some idiot who apparently can’t play.

Why is there always someone on my team that makes everyone else mad? Is there an easy way to find out who it is and report them? It’s weird that this happens every game. I spectated a few games to try and find out who is messing up so badly, but he must have logged off.

I would agree that if I lose games there is definitely something wrong with the system. I consider myself to be ‘good at games’ and probably in the top 80% of GW2 players by virtue of [fill this in later].

What I’m saying is that I’m good and Anet needs to build a system that recognizes that instead of punishing me personally because they hate me.

Your computer is really old and is going to struggle with GW2. I’d go through the stickied graphics threads in this forum and try to work out which settings are hurting you the most. Also male sure your drivers are up to date. That, and overclocking, are the only options for improving your performance.

Has anyone experienced crashing with these drivers? I can’t even get the game to fully load.

I rolled back to 13.9 and the problem vanished. I guess that’s it.

Pyroatheist.9031:

The main issue with halting strike is its location. It happens to be in the same trait slot as mental torment and empowered illusions, both of which will provide far more damage than halting strike ever could. If you go 20 into domination, then greatsword training for a phantasm build or shattered concentration for a shatter build are both far better choices.

Mental Torment and Empowered Illusions are both good traits, but saying that Halting Strike is never worth taking is a bit over the top. Being able to tack on 4k+ damage to multiple interrupts may or may not be more damage than what you’d get from buffing Mind Wrack, but in some situations it’s far more useful. If you’re running a phantasm build, then yeah it’s a no-brainer, but the trait itself is hardly bad.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Halting strike does technically scale with power, but it scales very oddly. Suffice to say, the damage on it stinks, and it’s a trait that is absolutely never worth taking.

I thought this was sarcasm until I looked at your build and saw you had all soldier’s gear.

Plux.5837:

I was having severe issues as well, and I also have an overly powerful computer. ……..Went back into the game, messed with the setting once more, and voila, smooth gameplay and very minor lag. I also used a program called Speedfan on my other screen to monitor my computers temperature, so as to not overwork it accidentally.

Are you saying that you were hitting thermal throttling? That seems like a hardware issue and not something with GW2. If you use something like OCCT do you overheat?

Also, any AMD CPU isn’t ‘overly powerful’. GW2 performs best with a high single-core performance, hence the preference for Intel chips. You might have 8 of them, but GW2 hardly seems to care. Such is life I suppose.

I heard a scrub died in pvp.

Maybe try using axe?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Thieves-are-better-with-axes-than-we-are

It seems to be highly rated.

Any class can win these fights because the people that play WvW are terrible. Is guardian the best class for this? Maybe not, but it’s certainly capable.

ThiBash.5634:

Does anyone know how this is handled with necros and weakness from their fields? Because weakness already stacks up to 5 times, maybe a necro player can give us some insights?

For the record, I found boon stacking to be one of the best new features of Guild Wars 2’s combat system. Not longer did you have usekitten ons or have to worry what stacks with what or what replaces what…so those planned restrictions can be thrown in the bin for all I care. It’s not gonna solve the condition stacking meta anyway.

Nobody knows how it will work, because it hasn’t been implemented and Anet hasn’t said much about the mechanics. There are a lot of cases like this across most of the classes, how it turns out is anyone’s guess at this point.

Resorting to personal insults is only going to get this thread locked.

$50 trillion or not, $50 is still $50.

On the plus side it will save Anet a lot of money on bandwidth. Between that and more RNG chests they should be seeing some fat Q4 profits.

You misspelled Lyssa.

wish.1027:

Like lets say we hit for 100 base damage, and we have 50% crit damage. When we landed a crit it would do 200.
100 * (1.5 + .5) = 200

Now lets say we have 100 base crit damage and solve it.
100 * (1.5 + 1) = 250

now lets add 5% crit damage to each problem.
100 * (1.5 + .5 + .05) = 205
100 * (1.5 + 1 + .05) = 255

Notice how they each added 5 damage to the total? Thats what youre talking about. What I am talking about is how…
205/200=1.025
255/250=1.02
That 5% extra crit damage is worth a 2.5% total damage increase when you score a critical hit at 50% crit damage, but only worth 2% damage with 100% crit damage. That loss of 0.5% damage is the diminishing return.

This is meaningless and doesn’t demonstrate anything.

If I have $100 and someone gives me $50, they’ve increased my money by 50%. If they give me another $50 they have only increased my money by 33%. Are you telling me that the second $50 is somehow worth less than the first?

wish.1027:

Oh ya? Im not naming it so much as describing the effect when I say diminishing returns. Its what happens when you add to whole numbers. I dont know why you want to argue about the name, but thats what its always been called in the other games Ive played, so I stuck with the naming convention. Its just 2 words that describe the effect of adding more and more of a single stat. And ya, every stat is like that. And the point of that equation is for comparisons of which stat you should add. Like if you wanted to compare different pieces of food with your gear set, thats how you would calculate how much crit damage is worth to your overall DPS.

You really don’t understand this on a basic level. Each point added has the same effect as the last. Diminishing returns is a real thing, and while you made a noble attempt at trying to quantify it, you are flat out wrong.

Regardless of whether soldier or valk is better, your math is wrong. I guess in that case nobody has posted math yet. :P

Sorry duder.

Make it grant might stacks too.

Add me to all of them I am p #mlg 4 real

Big Tower.5423:

There is kind of a sweet spot on critchance around 50 %

There is no sweet spot. It is a linear increase in damage from 0 to 100%.

wish.1027:

So lets check 30% crit + 5%, then 50 + 5, then 90 + 5 then 120 +5. All with 100% crit rate so we dont have to solve for it.
(1.5 + .3 + .05) / (1.5 + .3) = 1.0277777777
(1.5 + .5 + .05) / (1.5 + .5) = 1.025
(1.5 + .9 + .05) / (1.5 + .9) = 1.02083333333
(1.5 + 1.2 + .05) / (1.5 + 1.2) = 1.01851851852
Notice how that 5% crit damage we’re adding is worth less and less the more crit damage we already have? Thats the diminishing returns coming into play.

This isn’t how you calculate diminishing returns. You’re calculating the relative increase in damage, not the absolute. You could argue that every stat, even vitality, has what you’re calling ‘diminishing returns’ if you used that formula because the relative contribution of subsequent equally-sized additions to a pool of stats will always be less because the pool becomes larger in comparison as points are added to it.

I’ve attached three charts showing the relative change (what you’re incorrectly calling ‘diminishing returns’) and the absolute change for each additional point of toughness (damage reduction and time to live) and crit damage (damage increase).

http://i.imgur.com/8o67p64.png

Bambula.3649:

Prysin the ranger scalles better with crit dmg than with power. We are not like the warrior that needs tons of power
Our weapons scalling is to bad so crit dmg works much better

This doesn’t make any sense logically and is mathematically incorrect.

Can I have your stuff?

trooper.2650:

Sorry, Just a question on the travelers runes.
I tried on gw2 wiki but didn’t say how these runes can be found. You get them from TP but the prices is outrageous… can they be created or are they from rare drops?

Thanks

They’re rare drops.

You should probably enjoy DE before it gets “reworked” on the 15th.

Guys, I don’t want to say that Ele is OP but Ele is OP. No troll for realz yo but anetplznerf.

The runes are about as generic as they come, so it’s not as if you’re going to find a build that works better with them than any other set. You’re trading damage/utility for run speed, which does work in combat, regardless of whether you’re power or condi.

What’s more embarrassing is that he thinks osicat invented shatter or something, probably because he’s only been playing for a few months. People were running shatter in beta. Except that one BWE when the duelist was bugged and would just shoot people constantly. Then people were doing that.

Whoa there buddy

I was being serious about copying the wiki. It’s blocked at work.

Thanks, it’s worked well so far.

Max height norn with red and black karma/CoF armor and dragon wings is the coolest. Nothing else comes close (I listen to heavy metal so I would know).

In my defense I only watched the first minute then panned though to the end.

Lahel.6381:

Look at this guys post history..

Gaze upon it and despair.

No gameplay video, nice.

17 minutes of an anime cat running away.

Oh hey, someone copied the wiki onto this site. That’s useful!

The most important mantra trait is halting strike.

Cut him some slack. Judging by his gear he might be fairly new to GW2. He probably doesn’t even have his own class down yet, let alone the counters to other classes.

I forgot to say that haterz can get lost this is the mad diips zone nobody else allowed

yo dawg i like ur mad diips hit me up in game and follow me on twitch #yolo #swag #diips

High defense builds are more forgiving. You can live long enough to run away from most good players and can whittle down the bad ones.

It really does come down to what people are posting videos of. If someone posted a double-staff mantra build you’d see a ton of them everywhere because most players are just looking for a strong build to compensate for other areas.

‘Farm and use your own mats, because then they’re free. ’

I hope none of you are accountants.