Guild Wars 2

them healing specs are viable.

viable = works
optimal = works best

before you dont understand that dont talk about viable.

then everyone is a healer in this game already. by using an offensive ability thats also a blast finisher when standing in a water field you become a healer, while dealing damage at the same time.

thats how gw2 works, thats why we dont need a trinity. all we need is more difficult content so we have to make more use of our tools

warbignime.4610:

Arikyali.5804:

We have a soft trinity, and that is enough. We don’t need a dedicated trinity. Instead of tank, DD, and healer, we have damage mitigation, DPS, and boon support.

No we don’t have soft trinity, we have all zerker.

it would be cool if you would stop telling other people “thats bs” “all zerk” “other builds not viable” when your game knowledge and understanding is abysmal?

watch it and learn.

watch and learn.

all i can say to the people who are complaining about berserker gear, you dont understand how the combat system works or you simply refuse to understand it.

Nike.2631:

That’s why certain people hate the first Dredge fractal puzzle so much – killing the Dredge doesn’t make a difference, they just respawn. The fight tests your survivability, not your DPS.

people hate it because there are no real mechanics involved and its just a lazy way to design stuff. dredge are the perfect example for bad encounter and mob design.

fadeaway.2807:

Yes but not as you know it. Megaserver was the foundation. Challenging group content simply means open world bosses and events tweaked to be done by a specific number of players on a zone map private to them.

anet basically stated, that open world isnt the challenging group content.

Ralanost.8913:

NoTrigger.8396:

if you dont understand that other people have different wishes and if you are so jelly and entitled that you cannot grant them what they deserve, play a game that is designed for you. for example, a single player game. i heard there are many out there and still going.

This game was never meant for raiding. Aren’t you the one that is being entitled asking for a game designed for you when there are already other raiding games out there? Why change GW2 when something else is out there for you?

what was the game meant for? spamming 1 all day and get the shiny rewards without any challenge? even if the games combat system is based on player skill?

if you dont understand that other people have different wishes and if you are so jelly and entitled that you cannot grant them what they deserve, play a game that is designed for you. for example, a single player game. i heard there are many out there and still going.

to 1)
it doesnt have to oneshot you. but it should be less forgiving

to 3)
your idea is actually better than mine for open world

to 5)
if you interrupt the wyvern correctly, you can deal bonus damage for a few seconds. this results in a faster kill time.
if you dont interrupt him you will need longer to kill him.
thats why an enrage timer should exist. it will force the players to do the mechanics correctly and it puts pressure on you.
if you can fight the boss for 30 min, np, just dont die, use nomads and dont pay attention at all.
if you have 5 minutes it will force you to survive, do a good rotation, take care of offensive and defensive buffs and do the mechanics correctly, like the interrupts, every single time.
an enrage timer determines the amount of errors you can make. thats why it is a good thing.

you didnt answer where i talked about a stat boost or 1000000000000000000000000000000000000hp

Shiki.7148:

“make his ground targeted AE’s twoshot players” -> ignoring he can create a big anough firefield that you cannot get out of it as a melee within 2 ticks.

im not ignoring that you have enough time and possibilities to avoid getting hit.

Shiki.7148:

“Make falling off the platform -> dead, no revival possible” -> oneshot mechanic that severly hurts classes like Necros that cannot self stack stability high enough to block all of the gust, making players lie around dead for 10 minutes+

im not ignoring, that teamplay should be enforced and someone else can buff stability for a necro. thats how it should work. fighting solo alongside 150 zombies and mindlessly spamming skills shouldnt work.

Shiki.7148:

And you said “rage mode so they have to beat it before rage timer ticks downb” , implying beating it after rage-timer should be impossible. Sorry Sir, try better next time.

yes, im saying beating it after you failed to beat it should not be possible.

Ralanost.8913:

The word you are looking for is optional. And they are the only real form of progression in this game, so no they aren’t optional.

fixed. thanks.

with HoT, masterys will be your progression and anet even thinks ascended gear is optional.

Ralanost.8913:

NoTrigger.8396:

i did. you said you dont want an item to drop in a raid that you cannot get from anywhere else. since there will never be better gear than ascended and no gear treadmill, i would like to know why you are afraid.

because if there is no content or better gear locked behind raids, there is nothing to be afraid of.

My very first sentence is about vanity, so I’m talking about skins. No where did I mention ascended gear or better stats. Your reading comprehension is horrible.

according to arenanet, skins are optional in this game. optional means they are in no way required to play the game. that argument doesnt work here.

i did. you said you dont want an item to drop in a raid that you cannot get from anywhere else. since there will never be better gear than ascended and no gear treadmill, i would like to know why you are afraid.

because if there is no content or better gear locked behind raids, there is nothing to be afraid of.

i didnt talk about stat boost. i didnt talk about giving him 10000000000000hp and i didnt talk about make him oneshot everything.
and i have seen the best pve encounter design a game ever had in another MMO.

now, ask yourself why open world bosses usually take longer than dungeon bosses.

first of all, dungeon bosses are a joke.
secondly, if the majority of the people in the open world used decent builds you wouldnt have results like that:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

now, read my post again. i even described how an enrage timer for that fight could look like. fire takes over more and more parts of the platform the longer the fight takes until no safe area is left. thats an enrage timer. where exactly is the stat boost now?

and you know what my suggestions would do? right, teach people how to play, force them not to lie dead on the ground, force them to do the mechanics and give them no possibility to ignore them.

one mechanic in this fight is to interrupt the boss and deal bonus damage to him.
you know what the enrage timer would do? force people to actually interrupt him and force people to deal bonus damage to him, the way its intended.
and if you fail to do this mechanic, its a very simple one, you shouldnt be able to kill the boss.

and yes, i know that the devs said the wyvern isnt the super challenging content that they were talking about. all i did was give examples how to make this fight harder, regardless of what this fight is meant for.

they said there will never be better gear than ascended so what are you afraid of?

Astralporing.1957:

NoTrigger.8396:

Astralporing.1957:

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.

fact is, if they are working on a raid, it probably wouldnt be ready when the expansion launches.

The question OP posted was about Raids being part of HoT. So, you seem to agree, that they won’t be, right?

for me, HoT isnt only the launch of the expansion. its also what will come after launch.

Ralanost.8913:

I hope not. I did WoW for almost 10 years. I’m done with raiding, thank you.

raid content doesnt mean they will delete every other content in the game.

its simple to make the wyvern fight hard, for open world at least. for instanced pve stuff its simply not complex enough.

1. make each fire tick deal enough damage so a player dies after eating 2 hits.
makes it so player positioning matters alot more than it does currently.
2. if you fall off the platform you will die. no chance to fly around and land on the platform again.
3. no waypoint. dead means dead.
4. more fire on the ground that has to be dodged.
5. add an enrage timer, make it so that fire takes over more and more of the platform the longer the fight goes, so players are forced to interrupt every single time correctly to be able to deal enough dps to the boss before enrage hits and use offensive gear instead of nomads + halfway decent rotations at least to meet the dps requirement.
at the same time this makes it harder for players to survive and put pressure on players because they dont have to focus only on one thing (do good rotation or survive) but on both at the same time.

the wyvern fight is a step forward. it just needs better tuning. for an open world fight it will be good, better than what we currently have and it looks cool, so good job anet.
for instanced pve content its still far from what would be halfway difficult.

you can get pcs with older i5 cpus and gtx 750 for like 500 dollar on ebay.or check out microcenter.com for older and cheaper computer parts.

i wouldnt buy a finished computer. if you buy all the parts and build the computer yourself it will be cheaper and most likely you will get better hardware for your money.

Astralporing.1957:

Raids would be a major feature. They claim they have already announced all major features of HoT. Thus, it’s highly unlikely that Raids are coming.

fact is, if they are working on a raid, it probably wouldnt be ready when the expansion launches.

Azrael.4960:

I’d say Anet would go for something in between the two. This is taking into consideration the release of the Wyvern mini boss fights. There’s probably something beyond that like “bring down multiple wyverns while other meta events are going on.” that sort of thing.

anet said gw2 didnt have the ultimate group (note the word group, not zerg) and its something that gw2 needs. and look at how they always say “thats just open world” when they talk about the wyvern.

no im not riding the hope train. but im sure they know, if they dont give us any instanced stuff they can wave good bye to alot of players.

http://youtu.be/a6Nd4t6XvT8?t=3m26s

well they didnt say “no”. they are just like “we cant talk about it”….

if you think about it, if they want to do raids for example, you can bet it wont be ready when they release the expansion.

this sounds better:
Is there going to be small group instanced content — basically, are there going to be dungeons?

We will be detailing more of the hard challenging content.

The Wyvern fight is a good example of what we are looking for and doing more of in the future. That Wyvern fight, if you think about it, that’s just in the open world potentially – well it was in our demo and that’s more of the stuff that will be in the open world.

If you take that even further, you can see, sort of, what you can extrapolate out and see what we are thinking about for challenging hard group content in the future.

We will talk about it as we get closer to the launch date.

http://www.gamezone.com/previews/interview-talking-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-with-arenanet-s-development-director-jsmh

VodCom.6924:

NoTrigger.8396:

VodCom.6924:

Having condition glass canon builds viable could be nice. Just look at the “dungeon builds” section of metabattle.com . Compare it with roaming or ranked arena builds sections. It’s a bit empty isn’kitten That’s a problem

Just to make sure that nobody gets it wrong : the problem is NOT berserker. The problem is lack of variety.

metabattle….

glass canon condition builds are viable

…

With all due respect NoTrigger, condition builds are not viable in PvE group content right now.

You CAN play a condition glass canon build just like you CAN play AH hammer build and call it a day. However it does not mean they are “viable”. Why ?

Because for a roughly equal amount of risks taken by the players (i.e glass canon) the reward given is much lower. It takes twice as much (if not more) time to complete the same dungeon with a full glass canon party than with a direct damage party. And I’m not even talking about shoehorning trinity in the party (besides trinity has no place in this game and it’s good riddance).

as i said there is a difference between viable and optimal.

viable = it works
optimal = it works best

that doesnt mean im against making condition dmg a better option in pve.
but saying it is not viable is simply wrong.

why? they could give people the option to run the game in 64 bit and dx 12.
and people who cant use 64 bit and dx12 would still be able to run the game like right now.

well, fractals should be so hard at some point, that its impossible to speedrun them and the difficulty would be to beat the content.

if thats the case you can add w/e to the rewards and it will be ok.

Mireles Lore.5942:

My point is, if you are building your own rig. It is very rarely an issue with the actual game especially when its been out for so many years.

well it is an issue with the actual game. because with my hardware i should have way better performance. when newly released games run better than gw2 on high end hardware, it is an issue.

and i really wish anet thinks about dx 12 and 64 bit. it would be a major increase in performance even for people with older hardware.
nvidia for example will update drivers for gpus back to gtx 500 or something. ofc the old cards wont support dx 12 on hardware level, but via software emulation. and thats still an improvement.

imagine instead of 15 fps when fighting a world boss, you suddenly have 40+, without upgrading your hardware at all.

hazenvirus.8154:

Max direct damage will likely still be the go to unless Anet radically changes current and future content to punish players who rely on proper positioning, dodging, and active defenses over passive stats and face tanking.

and why would they do that?
why would they change it from rewarding good players for being good to rewarding bad players for being bad?

that doesnt make any sense and is beyond stupid.

Sagat.3285:

ODB.6891:

Sagat.3285:

hybrid.5027:

I like how people are trying to solve the zerker “problem.” News flash: it’s not a “problem.” Glass cannon builds are the end result of a game with active defenses and classes who are self-sufficient on healing. Period. This is not only not a problem, it is actually a good thing and a step forward in MMO design.

If you really want to nerf zerker, introduce new content so challenging that the bad players who wear zerker and get carried by their DPS have to take off the zerker to survive. But be careful what you wish for.

OP mobs will change nothing,only way is either player like encounters(anything a player can do so should a mob) or removal of crit and improvements of condition cap.

I’m fairly certain that the only things mobs do not have in their toolkit of abilities in PvE are dodges and smart positioning. As far as removal of crit goes…if that’s okay to remove a core stat….then I guess that means its equally fair to remove toughness?

Sure 3 dps stats while 1 for the rest,genius even!! Again only 2 ways, look at pvp and wvw zerkers,also stop with single boss encounters, I need the devs to confirm what type of pve they want so I can stop…

Btw the toughness response had nothing to support it..core stat…sure.

there is a reason PvE is PvE and not wvw or pvp.

and btw, wildstar had bosses in adventures that act like “players”, or i should say monkeys. and you know what? they were easier than the normal bosses and all what their “dodging” did was making the fight longer than needed and extremely anti-fun and boring.

“also stop with single boss encounters”

k, and then? do you think multiple bosses at the same time would change anything? no. good players would still kill them in berserker gear.

VodCom.6924:

Having condition glass canon builds viable could be nice. Just look at the “dungeon builds” section of metabattle.com . Compare it with roaming or ranked arena builds sections. It’s a bit empty isn’kitten That’s a problem

Just to make sure that nobody gets it wrong : the problem is NOT berserker. The problem is lack of variety.

metabattle….

glass canon condition builds are viable.

but still, the problem is not “lack of variety” or stats not being “viable”. the variety is there and other stats than berserker are viable.

but there is a big big difference between variety and optimal and there is a big big difference between viable and optimal.
most people dont know what optimal, variety and viable means.
even in trinity MMOs, there are like 2 optimal builds per role and class.
thats how it works in PvE in every game.

the real problem is:
- people dont know how PvE works and especially how the combat system and PvE works in gw2
- people want to roleplay a trinity in gw2
- bad players with builds that suit their skill level want to be as efficient as good players in berserker gear

and you are not going to fix any of these problems except if all of the sudden brain falls from the sky.

microsoft skips trash too.

i5 4690k, 8gb corsair vengeance @ 1600mhz cl 9 dual channel, gtx 970 OC

the optimization in gw2 is trash. while i have 200fps in front of arah with everything maxed, there are areas in the game where my fps drop below 60 or even 50, for example at the beginning of Caledon Forest. world bosses drop my fps below 30.

cpu load doesnt go over 50-60%, even with stuff running in the background.

whats also funny, if i run gw2 in 4k resolution i lose about 10 fps, if not less.

yup. i said multiple times they hired a raid designer to write the story. thats exactly what a raid designer does.

and no, i didnt mention 5 man content multiple times. i just said that they were talking about it on stream when they were showing the legendary wyvern.

wildstar sucks, when the game beats you.

Kurr.4179:

So, a few good players can coordinate to be effective or a zerg just has an overwhelming amount of CC is what they are saying… not that it’s 5 man content.

i didnt say they mean 5 man content.

Kurr.4179:

As for the raid content designer, if one of their devs left they just replaced him is all.

they didnt have a raid content designer before.

Kurr.4179:

Since GW2 works slightly uniquely compared to other MMOs they hired someone with relevant experience to designing big bosses (world bosses vs raid bosses). Vinewrath, Wyvern, etc could all be considered raid content, especially by ArenaNET.

there is no raid content in gw2 at the moment and a guy who simply designs bosses is not a raid content designer.

wait i forgot, wvw, tequatl and wurm is raid content of course….

Kurr.4179:

Finally, if you can’t see why this new defiance system is bad news for current dungeons I’m not sure what to tell you.

i dont care about current dungeons and compared to the people who are stuck with their heads in tyria and believe that this is a bad system overall i have seen basically the same system in a game with content that is by far more difficult and challenging than gw2.

Kurr.4179:

Just have fun not being able to focus pull any boss anywhere because even if you break the starting defiance bar all you’re getting is a generic stun effect…

icebow 5 isnt a generic stun effect?

Kurr.4179:

Everyone on this subforum should be pretty unhappy with this change as usually it’s pretty unanimous that people want more skill-based content. This is largely moving away from that to more easily control zerg CC.

this is not true at all and if you really believe this, then you are not able to imagine whats possible in terms of mechanics and difficulty with the new system.

the fact that your time to interrupt is limited or the fight will become significantly harder alone should make you realize that the new system isnt “easily control zerg cc” in any way.

Kurr.4179:

One way or another, it’s removing skill versatility in PvE for a system that’s easier for ArenaNET to make content for, without pausing to think about the effect of the different type of CCs on their bosses anymore.

it removes some versatility in PvE and adds versatility in a different way, which opens up more options than the current system for future encounters. it only depends on what arenanet will do with this system.

i dont see how you could call a “zerg” a coordinated group. and again i doubt they hire a raid designer for open world and story writing. they were already able to create that kind of content.
and chris whiteside was specifically talking about instanced challenging group content in the raid cdi.

we will see once we get more information from anet.

if i remember correctly, when they were showing the fight on stream they said something like “5 really good players could beat this boss”

and you forget about the part “coordinated group”.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Their raid designer has already been working on helping the latest world boss added with LS. They also said we would see the work of the raid designer hired in encounters “all over the map”, like that Wyvern, which is a world boss.

which is a good thing and doesnt automatically mean there wont be instanced content.

+ if im not mistaken they said the boss is a 5 man boss?

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

NoTrigger.8396:

“cc diversity” might be ruined. but with this system they open the door for more complex encounters and interrupt-based mechanics that can melt your face.

and i really doubt they changed this with more easy mode content in mind.

They made this system with open-world content in mind as their first, number one, priority. You still think we’re getting dungeons in HoT?

first of all they hired a raid content designer. i guess they hired him to write the main story for HoT.

then they talked about how gw2 hasnt had the “ultimate group challenge” yet and its something that gw2 needs.

and anet seems to be interested in fractal stuff.

you dont change the defiance system to a better one which opens the door for more challenging stuff only to design more open world content that has to be easy so casuals can succeed.

and i hope we dont get any dungeons in HoT and instead content that is more difficult than any dungeon could ever be.

“cc diversity” might be ruined. but with this system they open the door for more complex encounters and interrupt-based mechanics that can melt your face.

and i really doubt they changed this with more easy mode content in mind.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Why ruin all CC in organized instanced content if this change is clearly meant for zerg content?

if you think its ruined and “boring” then you probably dont understand the system.

and actually its not that hard to understand and see what you can do with it in terms of boss mechanics.

Yunjii Sun.3512:

loseridoit.2756:

Yunjii Sun.3512:

loseridoit.2756:

Yunjii Sun.3512:

I’d rather see the game using the latest OpenGL so at least everybody including MAC users who also bought the game could finally get some good performances.

Don’t forget that the game is FreeToPlay, so a smaller audience means less money for ArenaNet at the end.

And btw, the better way to end the 10FPS in WvW zergs is to redesign WvW so it would be less about zerking. Yes, it is easier to say than to do, but if you think about it, once you’ll get rid of the GPU/CPU bottlenet, you’ll have the next bottleneck: networking. And neither DirectX nor OpenGL will save you with that.

opengl next has not been release. in fact, it is being shown on march 5

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/glnext-the-future-of-high-performance-graphics-presented-by-valve

Neither is DirectX 12 :p

And by the way, they are quite equivalent anyway if you believe John Carmack’s words.

direct x 12 will probably be release when windows 10 is out. I believe microsoft been working on it longer than the khoronos group.

It doesn’t matter. Again, gw2 is intended to a larger audience than just the Windows 10 crowd.

it doesnt matter, because for example nvidia gpus back to gtx 500 or something will get a driver update and support dx 12 on a software level. its still wont be as strong as a gtx 970/980 because both will support dx 12 on a hardware level. but still, its a major increase in performance.

even wow has a 64 bit client and supports dx 11 so far.

and even if your computer is too old to support dx 12, they can make it so you could still run gw2 with dx 9.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I get you’re devil’s advocating, and there’s nothing wrong with a fresh perspective. But, does it really seem that unreasonable to want soft cc to feel like a solid choice for many places in the game and at multiple levels of play?

first of all i dont know what “devils advocating” means. and secondly ofc its not unreasonable. but if there are too many skills and effects that can affect the defiance bar it will probably do more harm than good. thats what i was trying to explain.

another point i forgot to mention from the PvE perspective is that the “soft cc” effects are side effects of your dps rotation. now if they affect the defiance bar this will lead to one of 3 following results:

a) rotation isnt fluent anymore because you are forced to save cooldowns, rotation and gameplay isnt as much “fun” anymore. and for a large amount of time we are camping autoattack in our rotations already, even more so in HoT, because we have to save cooldowns of skills like binding blade to interrupt the boss.
b) when the defiance bar is active a large part will be depleted immediately -> interrupting will become a joke.
c) soft cc removes such a little amount of the defiance bar to not oversimplify the mechanics because of the side effects that its not even worth it.

Vox Hollow.2736:

I immediately perceived it as a Buff to things like Chill and Cripple and Immobilize, whose PvE play has largely felt unsatisfactory, due to the AI not really producing much in the way of significant motion on a practical level and/or not providing instances where manipulating motion this way demonstrably changes the outcome.

It’s true, the effect soft control has on bosses is significantly lesser if not outright irrelevant…so why doesn’t it stand to reason that the breakbar presents an opportunity to improve this?

one of the reasons is, at least thats what i believe, if you make all of that stuff affect the defiance bar there will be too much chaos.

in wildstar for example, each class has 2-3 interrupts. CC skills are mostly off gcd and instant. with that in mind devs can design mechanics that are very clear to understand and at the same time very complex. they design it with X interrupts needed in X amount of time and players really have to react quickly.

now, think about what would happen if each class in gw2 spams all CC skills, cripple, immobilize, chill….. that would either lead to a “mindlessly spam skills to win” situation or simply lame mechanics instead of "each player in the party has to use these specific skills to remove enough of the defiance bar.

and chill, cripple, immobilize isnt as unsatisfactory as you call it. it might seem it has no real use in pve, but if you solo dungeons and fractals this stuff becomes more and more useful. the more difficult and challenging the encounters in HoT are, the more use you will see.

another reason is probably wvw and pvp.

RashanDale.3609:

Andred.1087:

As long as zerker is the highest DPS option, it will be top choice for PvE. And since the entire idea of ‘berserker’ is a glass cannon, I don’t think it will ever not have the highest damage output in general.

when we come to a point where a party of full zerker just cant stay alive and it becomes more viable to invest a bit into defensive stats and healing power, then other stat setups than 5 full zerkers will be the highest damage output.

The easiest way to start with that is by increasing a mob’s sustained damage and number of attacks. so you just cant get by with only dodges and stuff.

and what exactly would be the point for doing that? the combat system was designed so that player skill > passive defense.
if a good player can avoid taking damage by being skilled enough and game understanding/knowledge, then thats good design.

Kodiak.3281:

Yea lots of ways to change encounters so players just have to keep eating damage as a mitigation check rather than a DPS check. Changing the way blind works is a huge one.

Now if they mess with projectile reflects…haha…boom.

changing the way blind works wont even make a difference.

ill give you a hint: using blind vs bosses was and still is beyond useless.

Wetpaw.3487:

and he left to pump out games for a Amazon studio? His Hardcore™ and involvement was hardly impressive if you take away initial hype sales.

how exactly is that relevant?
the point is, so far they didnt nerf anything when people cried. other games however did.

you should have to get good and earn your rewards and not get them for free.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

NoTrigger.8396:

ODB.6891:

They also appear to be trying to seriously diminish casual play? "this new system is about players working together and coordinating. I don’t think the people calling for this have really thought out how much this will also negatively affect them. They are actually less organized in most cases than zerk players…as most of them will just try to do their own separate things in encounters…whereas zerk usually coordinates the exact same strategy.

this will force people to wake up and l2p. once you have to earn your rewards in this game instead of getting everything for running around in circles mindlessly, the player base will become much better at playing it.

Or they complain hard enough for it to get nerfed.

sometimes it wouldnt be too bad if anet acted like wildstar devs:

https://twitter.com/stephanfrost/status/463005512066281472

the best players will always use the most optimal set for their skill level and game knowledge.

bad players will always copy-paste what good players do.

no matter what you do, people will get better at the game. and there will always be people who can run around in berserker gear and get away. unless they make this game a wow trinity game, which is not going to happen.

ODB.6891:

They also appear to be trying to seriously diminish casual play? "this new system is about players working together and coordinating. I don’t think the people calling for this have really thought out how much this will also negatively affect them. They are actually less organized in most cases than zerk players…as most of them will just try to do their own separate things in encounters…whereas zerk usually coordinates the exact same strategy.

this will force people to wake up and l2p. once you have to earn your rewards in this game instead of getting everything for running around in circles mindlessly, the player base will become much better at playing it.

as far as i know nobody has been banned for using something like this. but i can imagine some people wont be happy when other people can see their dps. especially when it looks like this https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Still-no-mention-of-dungeons/first#post4773430

spoj.9672:

I was primarily talking about its implementation in old content. I have no doubt it will be a better system for new encounters which are designed with it in mind and have unique break bar mechanics.

But for old content its going to be a big step back unless we can at least still decide what CC gets applied.

well if they use the “basic” of the new defiance system for the old content and make the stun duration that they were talking about the same as deep freeze it will not make a big difference unless you solo the boss.

maddoctor.2738:

And of course second thing is what will happen to the boss once the bar is depleted, will it depend on the final skill used or will it be a standard stun etc

i believe they already said there will be different stuff that will happen when the bar is depleted depending on the encounter.

spoj.9672:

By the looks of it it is going to require less CC to disable a boss. Which means it will be easier. Not to mention the massive visual queue to give even pugs with no communication a big hint at when to CC. When me and my friends do fractal 50 without ts we often end up using 2 icebow 5’s at the same time mid fight. So we are already doing exactly what this system wants us to do without any communication. There is really nothing remotely complicated about using a few CC’s at the same time. And if the type of stun is predetermined then it makes it even easier. Because you dont have to worry about who’s CC hits last when the bar is low or at zero.

And it is essentially the same system. You are CCing to remove strips/bar so you can CC. Its changing a lot but it still has a lot of similarities. The differences are in the details. Although if even basic champions and bosses get a predetermined stun instead of the choice of players CC then we are getting a very simplified and pointless use of CC in old content. It will be better for openworld stuff i wont deny that. But it looks like its providing less options to organised groups.

it really only depends on what anet will do with the new system. but let me give you a few examples from wildstar.

http://youtu.be/5Q5CiO90mmY?t=7m27s
i already linked this video. what you see is a “middle phase” during a boss fight. the boss has 20 IA -> needs 21 interrupts to CC him. if you dont remove his IA you will wipe.
each time you use an interrupt to remove a stack, everyone will take damage.
if you use 3 interrupts at the same time there will be too much incoming damage and you will wipe. your time to remove the 20 stacks is limited (time of boss cast).
what you have to do is 2 kicks -> heal -> 2 kicks -> heal and so on. imagine this in gw2. each time after you use 2 cc skills you have to blast combo fields to heal the raid and use defensive buffs/boons to reduce the incoming damage.
sounds easier than it is. trust me it is difficult.

basically you use and coordinate CC to win, but at the same time the system fights against you.

http://youtu.be/5Q5CiO90mmY?t=10m20s
another middle phase of a different boss in the same fight

you lose your weapon, you can get it back by using a cc break or running into your weapon on the ground.
if you run into a red circle you will lose your weapon again. without your weapon you cant interrupt. your time to interrupt is again limited.
if you dont interrupt -> wipe. you have to interrupt him (remove 10 stacks) at the same time or the boss will regenerate his 10 IA really quickly and you will run out of interrupts. if there is only 1 second delay between the interrupts you are pretty much kittened.

ofc for a gw2 version of both of the above examples you could say you simply use more CC skills than needed. this is where the gw2 system is different so that some CC skills remove less of the defiance bar + if you are busy changing your weapons and kittening up your perfect rotation you wont be able to kill the boss before the enrage timer hits.

http://youtu.be/b-0g0bevL08?t=4s
earth air elemental pair in wildstar. you are fighting 2 bosses at the same time. the earth boss has a buff that stacks. if he gains too many stacks he will destroy you. you can remove the stacks by running into a tornado, tornado knocks you up into the air, then you have to land on the boss (thats basically your cc skill). if you dont land on the boss you will die from falling damage. then he has his special attack. and alot of players have to jump and land on him at the same time to interrupt it. in the 40 man version this was a little bit different because you removed interrupt armor.

in gw2 you could say you have to interrupt/deplete his defiance bar by jumping constantly as soon as the boss reaches a certain amount of stacks. if you dont he will become so strong he will kill you. and when the boss does his super attack everyone has to jump to interrupt it.

there are even some trash mobs that have 2 different attacks that can be interrupted. one heal ability and another one. you have to choose what you want to interrupt. and each time you interrupted an ability, you have to use one more CC skill when you interrupt the next time ( 4 kicks → 5 kicks → 6 kicks …….).

the examples and varity how this system is used in wildstar is infinite. even if its just a boss fight with a tight enrage timer and you need that MoO after interrupting the big attack to make the dps check.
it all depends what anet will build around this system and in the end it will be better for the future and lead to more interesting and challenging stuff if they are doing it right.

spoj.9672:

This bar is more pug friendly now. But it looks like it might be possible for organised groups to completely stunlock bosses with even greater ease (chain icebow 5’s).

And it is essentially the same system. Defiant stacks and defiant bar works the same way in that you have to strip it down to land a CC. The difference is each CC now contributes different amounts to the bar and the bar now regens. So solo players can no longer whittle down defiant stacks ready for an interrupt. So it makes it almost impossible to use effectively in solos but makes it easier for groups. Not really sure how i feel about this.

it isnt essentially the same system. its completely different.
its the wildstar IA system with a few small differences.

its also not easier for groups now. taking off stacks one by one and using deep freeze is easier than coordinating stuns, especially with larger groups.
they can build mechanics around the system like wildstar phageborn convergence hammer:
http://youtu.be/5Q5CiO90mmY?t=7m27s

and good instanced group content should be so hard that it is impossible to solo anything in the instance to begin with.

Beast Sos.1457:

It shouldnt be easy mode if we CC the boss. We should still have to be aware while fighting the boss, not waiting for it to start casting a attack and we all CC then GG. There shouldnt be a way to make a fight easy mode, like stacking in a corner, but there should be ways to make it easier/faster.

if you dont CC the boss when you have the opportunity you should be in trouble or even wipe. thats how it works in wildstar.

they pretty much copy pasted the wildstar IA system. the only difference is you have a bar instead of numbers.

it will be interesting to see if they build mechanics around the new system.