Guild Wars 2

Nuzt.7894:

Dungeons should be fun, part of the fun is challenge, everyone in full zerk speed running is not fun nor is it challenging. You can say “but but if everyone goes tanky the fights will last longer” but that unrealistic. People will still insist on everyone running full zerk, stacking, and everything else that makes it quick and painless.

This is the reason the trinity was there to begin with, while I can respect that they tried to get away from the trinity, the current format has made dungeons a formality to earn gold vs something to do for fun.

defensive gear dungeon run:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VhmwLwvrM
such exciting, much fun, such challenge, so difficult.

in glass cannon gear you can at least die if you kitten up.

i agree dungeons arent challenging, but they never were to begin with.
and making the fights last longer will not change anything about it.

Vargamonth.2047:

Against what seems to be popular belief, meta builds and tactics won’t settle around the fastest approach, but around the most rewarding PuG friendly and easy to execute one.

never heard of that before.

Jerus.4350:

I really don’t agree with the idea that dungeons are too easy. They only got to be this way because we have done them dozens and dozens of times. Because people like Wethospu and many others have analyzed them to death and spread that information to help people get through them.

in wildstar it took me more time to kill a single dungeon boss in a 5 player group than learning how to solo lupicus in gw2.

this is a good dungeon in my opinion and much more challenging than what we have in gw2:

sorudo.9054:

MrH.2591:

sorudo.9054:

NoTrigger.8396:

i think you misunderstood. nobody cares about texture quality. what people care about is the major performance increase from dx 12.

…seriously, so ppl whine about performance problems when they have an outdated computer…..and they want a higher DX version that in no way does anything good for GW2?

oh and if nobody cares about it, am i nobody then?

No offence, but you have no clue what you’re on about. Taking WoW for example, DX11 is almost a 50% boost over DX9, that’s massive, there’s no other word for it. And early benchmarks are showing a similar boost going from DX11 to DX12, so that should tell you just how huge of an increase going from DX9 to DX12 would be. It would make the game so much more enjoyable. I personally want to live in a world where I can max the game out and not lose half my frame rate during world bosses if I’m using good enough hardware.

intel i7 3.4GHz
Nvidia geforce 770 GTX 2GB
corsair 2X 4GB
no performance loss, update your PC…..

its not about “performance loss”. its more about “the performance could be so much better”.

and i would like to see how you are not losing at least half of your fps during world bosses.

Leo G.4501:

The premise of my idea is that the game is very easy to trivialize because the tools are so strong. It makes it so you don’t even need half the tools you have at your disposal, leaving a breadth of tools that go unused.

the game is trivialized because the content is trivial. once the content is really challenging and difficult using all of your tools will be the norm and required.
thats another thing you seem to ignore or dont want to understand.
and by tools i dont mean defensive gear.

and yes, some tools are very strong. but only in the right hands.

Leo G.4501:

Results should be, the game is somewhat tougher until you figure what tools you absolutely need or let others cover your weaknesses while you play to your strengths. It’d be said though, cicumstances could be measured so it would create a more challenging atmosphere.

by forcing good players to use defensive gear you wont make anything more challenging, you will make it even easier.
and you know what would create a more challenging atmosphere?
again, content that is more challenging and difficult to beat.

apart from that, adding stuff like endurance regen, more vigor or w/e to defensive gear doesnt make ANY sense at all, because defensive gear is there to reduce your damage taken and thus less active defense is needed.

when people dont understand the obvious or simply refuse to understand it i dont really know what i can do.
ill stop responding now because it seems like im wasting my time here.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

combat and build system is completely fine?

It’s actually not. As it was said above, gear is a part of the build. When everybody uses the same gear (assasin/zerk is not quite different) its a bad sign. In PvE each class has like 1 or 2 builds with minimum variations, that’s not good too.

tell me a single MMO where its different.
making condition damage better is good, so classes who make good use of conditions can run a glass cannon condition damage build.
but enforcing tanky gear is beyond stupid, bad game design, and takes away from the skill based game to turn it into a more passive experience for roleplayers.
have you ever seen DDs run around in tanky gear in any good MMO? i dont think so.
and if you want to bring the tank/healer argument, as i explained above the tank and healer is replaced by the active combat system and team play potential in the gw2 combat system.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

The whole situation is pretty unhealthy too. We have some traits only for pvp, some for wvw, and a bunch for pve, instead of them being useful in all modes.

two simple reasons why its never going to be useful in all modes is because each mode is different and anet only balances for lol esports.
and even here, tell me a single MMO where its different.

CutePicsHunter.7430:

Now, answer this question:
What if devs will do what Leo suggests and damage output will become higher?

Don’t say “it won’t”. Just answer the question.

1. it will still be bad because it will reduce options and force players who are far above the skill level to use defensive gear when they wouldnt need it.
and more passive gameplay is less interesting and exciting.

2. the players who woke up one day and saw the light will rage and be on rampage because you just told them to delete the ascended berserker/assassins gear they grinded for.

3. i will lose all of my hope and faith

4. i will go back to wildstar where i can trust the devs and where devs appear on my guilds teamspeak each week during our raid times, while watching us raid, to ask for feedback and talk to us.

are you going to tell me now that you play a scepter focus earth elementalist in pve?

im at the point where i start to believe my english is too bad in order for you to understand me so ill just link you this:

Leo G.4501:

No where am I binding crap to anything. You can still get benefit from whatever you can now in my suggestion. The only difference is things are limited.

and why limit it? whats the reason? if im good enough to dodge everything, why go and force me to use defensive gear in the future to allow me to dodge everything?

do you realize how bad the whole idea is? you punish skilled players just for the sake of introducing pseudo “gear diversity”.

this is the thing i dont understand. why make changes so defensive gear is more needed, when you dont have to change anything because the combat and build system is completely fine? nothing will change, except damage output will be lower overall.
people will still use the same traits etc…. gameplay wont change, feeling of your build wont change.
nothing will change except Captain PHIW can now tell his friends “im running a knights build :-)”

its like sticking lead weights to the feet of the fastest sprinter in the world just so he is as slow as everyone else and at the same time make him more resistent to cramps.

you take active defense and bind it to gear, because you want more build diversity.

but instead of trying to do this, why not change encounters or make new encounters that are more difficult to beat first?

you know, if there would be a boss in the game that can only be beaten by the best players in glass cannon gear, more use for defensive stats will be natural by-product, because players who are not as good at the game will rely on defensive gear in order to figure out the fight, understand the mechanics and improve.

thats when defensive gear will shine. and even at the moment defensive and offensive gear is exactly doing what it is supposed to do. give you more room for error at the cost of dps, or give you more dps at the cost of higher risk.

support, boon duration, cc and all of the other stuff is totally independed of gear, because the important stuff comes from weapons, traits and utility skills.

a meta build is not a dps build. its a support build without sacrificing too much dps.
you can take the berserker meta build and use soldier gear instead. it will not change the gameplay of the build in any way. you can even use nomads, it will change nothing, except give you more room for error.

a build is not defined by your stats. people really need to get away from that tunnel vision.

and as soon as you bind active defense to gear, you take away more than you do good, because you reduce the amount of options.
thats like changing it so if you dont wear dps gear you wont deal any damage.

another by-product of more challenging content for example is that the fire staff elementalist will not camp fire anymore and camp water for most of the time and use completely different traits to have a high water field uptime and stuff like that.
thats build diversity, build diversity independed of gear. but at the moment we simply dont need to make use of it, because of the easy content.

its really not hard to understand and if people finally understood this we wouldnt be here arguing about the same boring stuff every single day.

but i cant blame the players. because the lack of motivation to get good and research how the game works isnt their fault.

i understand exactly what you are trying to do. but it is simply not needed and more passive gameplay will be a by-product of your changes.

read the quote from my post above.
since you can tank and support through the combat system without set roles, the one thing left is maximizing your dps.
and there is nothing wrong with it. so why change it? just so you can say “kitten the system im different” ?

guess what people will do when there is more incoming damage? they will do waterfield rotations, use more protection, use vigor from traits, and so on…..
BEFORE they will even think about a more defensive gear set.

or in other words: they will make full use of the combat system instead of relying on passive stats. the result of this is more active and fun gameplay and more teamplay than in trinity MMOs on top of that.

in a game where every single player can provide support, every single player can avoid damage through his own active defense and active defense from his team mates,
the amount of passive defense only depends on how good the player is.
and it boogles my mind that people constantly want to change this.

just tell me why you want to change something when:

NoTrigger.8396:

in gw2 the tank is your active defense, and active defense from your group members.
in gw2 the healer is your personal healing skill, defensive boons and combo fields + blast finisher from your team mates.
your guardian focus 5 isnt just a dps or defensive skill, it turns into a heal skill as soon as you blast a water field with it.

there is no reason for more passive gameplay and gear, as long as skill can make a difference. and this is so great about gw2.

people always make it sound like its different in trinity MMOs.
you know what? everyone is running the same gear and build in trinity MMOs, everyone. the only difference is specialisations, that change the way how your class is played → other weapons, other skills.

it makes me really mad when i see people trying to fix something that they dont even seem to understand. i just dont get it.
why would you change the combat system and stuff like that and force players to play more passive and use more passive stuff when the combat system is working exactly as intended? just for the sake of roleplaying something?

so…….. you are trying to fix something that isnt broken and at the same time you want to change the best part of gw2, the combat system? that doesnt make any sense.
apart from that, if you want to make PvE more interesting you have to start at the core of the problem, the encounters.
why would you force me to use passive stats when my friends and i are SKILLED enough to support each other, dodge kitten and maximize our dps?
why do you want to take away the “get good” and why do you want to introduce the “take dmg instead of avoiding it when you can” ?

and what i see over and over again is that people dont seem to understand the depth of the gw2 combat system. i can partly understand it because the current PvE content doesnt really require to make 100% use of the combat system, but the depth is there and more use will be made once the content requires it.

also, boon duration and other stuff you mentioned comes from traits. if the content requires different trait setups, you will also see more use of different trait lines and boon duration.

-Basically, just that synergies between team members are limited due to the limited and very narrow goals of combat. The goals of combat are almost always kill the target(s) before they kill you

thats the goal in every game, but good players dont need to kill a target before it kills them, because they are good enough to survive.

Sagat.3285:

Yes you are partially right make condition optimal in many situations.

Plz stop creating threads like these arguing about the defensive stats when you can find that defense in skills and traits, devs plz stop with the over 9000 vitality and negative 9000 toughness mobs.

they shouldnt make conditions optimal in many situations. they should make berserker/assassins and glass canon condition builds equally good.

things like mobs that you can only kill with condition damage is gimmick/gambit and not good game design.

cletiscake.9173:

Guys, if we make dungeons harder, then the average player suffers that much more. The average player joining a pug is going to have a miserable time in an uncoordinated group where the content is even more difficult. Not everyone runs premades, and not everyone uses a voice chat. Raising the bar for everyone does not simultaneously increase the viability of other builds, nor does it promote a Meta with less reliance on Zerker stats.

Making things more challenging without increasing the scaling of defensive stats means that defensive stats will be even more worthless than they are now. Zerker gear is the best because POWER, PRECISION, FEROCITY scale the best. TOUGHNESS has diminishing returns, HEALING POWER might as well not exist, and VITALITY doesn’t matter because of one-shot mechanics.

If the solution is making AI better, and content in general that much harder, how does that promote diversity of builds? Won’t more and more people gravitate to Zerker Meta because as we all know, blocks, blinds, and protection are available irregardless of the gear you are wearing. This is the reason why Zerker Meta can exist. It exists because you don’t lose out on being able to provide those important protective boons which are much more valuable than defensive stats from Gear. As long as this is true, Zerker will always be best, especially for organized groups.

And not to mention that running harder, longer content should also provide more valuable loot. There’s many variables to consider, and blanket statements like “X and Y should change” cannot be made without considering how to change the other parts of the equation.

this is true but this is also exactly why the combat in gw2 is different. i dont understand why people want to take that away and turn gw2 combat into a roleplaying trinity experience.

Bubi.7942:

@TPMN, NikeEU:

2. I thought gear and builds were different. You can go all heal traitlines and runes with zerker gear too.
IMO the thread pops up every week cause people get sick and tired of pressing 1 in the corner, and see it as a flaw of the game.

people should tell anet to make more difficult and challenging instanced content. 99% of the players crying will need nomads gear.
why?
because if they dont even understand how the game works they arent good players.

Bubi.7942:

Also this: “Remember after 3 yrs the hardest bosses will seem trivial with good groups who have practiced this daily. For new players there is still the oh “how do I beat this boss” learning curve and what skills do I bring for active defenses?”

This would be nice if it worked so, the thing is, 1 experienced player can breeze through any dungeon with PuGs (granted they listen), simply by saying: “stack here, use reflect” or “invis, skip”.

the dungeons are easy, really. check out some wildstar stuff like GA raid bosses and the DS raid bosses.
i know dungeons arent raids and its okay when the dungeons are easy, but the wildstar level of difficulty is what anet should be doing in the future.

Purple Miku.7032:

and engineers actually deal superior damage using sinister in a solo setting by a large margin compared to berserker.

thats simply not true.

condition damage is more than viable with the removed condition cap in HoT

build diversity exists in form of changing traits, weapons and utility skills. that said, once the content is so hard, complex and challenging that people like me stand in front of the boss after a few pulls and think “we will never beat this guy”, thats when 99% of the players who wear berserker now will change to a more defensive gear set.

that depends what the source of incoming damage is. it could simply be a permanent debuff. but standard support like protection should be the norm anyway.

with tanky gear and easy mode fights its not skill based. with harder content and dps checks it could/will be.

an example would be a boss fight where more healing than your personal healing skill is required + an enrage timer. how will people react to this? constantly blast water fields while opimizing their dps so they can kill the boss before enrage hits + the basic stuff like dodging telegraphs and other mechanics.
if you tune the numbers right, this will be tough.

or you know, without an enrage timer bad players would simply equip nomads instead of becoming better at the game and afk fight the boss and win.

cletiscake.9173:

Here’s the thing. Our characters are balanced around the fact that skills have a recharge time, we have only 2 dodges available to us, and we have a single Heal on a long cooldown. By design, we are a closed system. We are like a pre-built computer and it’s impossible to upgrade or improve the specs because our CPU/Case cannot support any new parts. Coincidentally, the one thing that CAN improve is our DPS. Right now DPS is the best scaling stat, because its the only stat that pushes our characters beyond the confines of “limited dodging, blocks, and healing”. Once we go through our rotation, and we’ve used all the tools at our disposal, the only thing that matters at that point is how much DPS we can produce. Zerker gear takes advantage of this “closed system”. Essentially, Zerker gear allows us to dish out as much damage as possible before we run out of utility, and by the time we do run out of utility, the Mob should be dead. Yes you can increase your armor and your HP, but when you can’t dodge or block anymore, you need to kill that Mob before it kills you. That is how the game is designed. There’s no way around that.

im sorry bro but there are alot of videos out there of speedrunners completing dungeons in full “tank” gear without dodges. people even unbind dodges for the videos. and you know what? it makes you fall asleep and its easy.

cletiscake.9173:

The only way to improve the Zerker Meta is to simply allow other stats to scale better, change the way Utility is used, and design encounters with more order to them. The developers need to allow other builds to emerge. They need to give us a better way to “tank” damage, and also a way to “heal” through it. No one is going to run Clerics Gear when it scales so poorly. It simply doesn’t work in this “closed system”. It’s counter to what the current design philosophy is with the whole “no trinity” thing, but it’s time to realize that this experiment of “no trinity” has detracted a lot from our game play.

the “no trinity” and the “how the combat system in this game is designed and works”
is king. its entirely skill based. and class canon gear is the only gear option that can make, or even better, needs to make full use of the depth of the combat system.
why would you change it? just for the sake of roleplaying a tank or a healer?

in gw2 the tank is your active defense, and active defense from your group members.
in gw2 the healer is your personal healing skill, defensive boons and combo fields + blast finisher from your team mates.
your guardian focus 5 isnt just a dps or defensive skill, it turns into a heal skill as soon as you blast a water field with it.
thats how the game works.

if you arent an experienced player or simply struggle for whatever reason, by all means, use defensive gear and try to improve. there is nothing wrong with gear that works like training wheels. but there is seriously no reason to destroy the best part of gw2, because some people (actually its the majority) dont understand how the combat works.

anet just needs to give us content for the combat system.

cletiscake.9173:

a) You have limited amounts of dodges and blocks which means you will take more hits over a longer fight. Because Mobs hit so hard, it’s more efficient to run Zerker and kill everything quickly before you run out of ways to avoid damage.

good players can use berserker gear even in longer fights.

cletiscake.9173:

b) Not stacking in corners is simply not feasible. Because there is no reliable aggro mechanic, and no reliable way to “tank” damage (due to limited blocks and dodges), fighting mobs becomes a chaotic mess. We’ve all been part of those fights where everyone is everywhere, no co-ordination, different mobs attacking different players, players getting downed all over the place. Combat is a mess unless you stack neatly in a corner and nuke everything. This isn’t the players’ fault for exploiting. From what it looks like to me, it seems as though there is no design intent when it comes to Dungeons. The players simply came up with the best system to combat an otherwise very disorderly and chaotic mess. I don’t know what Anet’s original design intent was, but I don’t think they intended for us to “not” stack in corners. It’s too chaotic if you don’t. This is why people ask for the Trinity back. Because at least there is order to the chaos with a Trinity.

in HoT there will be taunt to reposition mobs.

cletiscake.9173:

c) The Zerka meta has been a thing for a while now. If we tried to run anything different in current content, we would soon realize that Dungeons are indeed designed to be pretty tough.

back when i started to play gw2 we ran dungeons in soldier or knights gear. and it was just as easy. the only difference back then was we werent as experienced as we are today.
i got my dungeon master title 3 weeks after my first char hit 80 and the only experience i had was leveling from 1-40, because i crafted the other 40 levels.
how can gw2 dungeons be hard?
in wildstar we wiped to a single dungeon boss for hours, HOURS.

cletiscake.9173:

We think Dungeons are easy now because we can cheese through them with Zerker Gear, but we’ve forgotten that the bar has been set pretty high already. If we demand harder content in HoT, we will set the bar even higher, and we will get utterly destroyed in dungeons.

first of all we dont cheese through dungeons and secondly without berserker gear the dungeons are even easier because there is more room for error.

for HoT instanced content, i want content that utterly destroys me for weeks and months, just like in wildstar. i want to do pulls for weeks on a single boss to figure out the fight and get a perfect execution done.

cletiscake.9173:

You want mobs to hit harder? How would that invalidate Zerker Meta in any way? The whole point is to kill Mobs before they kill you, and in this new hypothetical Meta where Mobs hit harder, they will be able to kill you even faster, and that puts even more reliance on Zerker Meta.

hit harder doesnt mean more difficult or complex. i want complex boss fights, with lots of complex mechanics. hit harder doesnt do anything, especially it doesnt make the content more interesting.

in gw2 condition builds are easier to play. just compare condition engi to power engi in PvE.
and you cant compare gw2 condition damage to wow. each class in wow has a more complex rotation than gw2.

VodCom.6924:

Windsagio.1340:

spoj.9672:

Its pretty much guaranteed to be glass direct damage. But at the same time it could be assassins. So either way you are probably best waiting and just saving up the mats and components for crafting.

Even with improved conditions in HoT. Direct still has far superior maximum potential and benefits more from group buffs. One thing can be certain though. Theres no way Celestial will ever be meta for any class in PvE. The very concept of cele is to provide a balance of everything with no maximum efficiency in any area. You will have wasted stats no matter how well a class can take advantage of most of them.

I’m not willing to call Condi out yet, it depends not only on how far they go with systems changes (increasing the stack is likely only part of it), but also on any possible skill and trait changes (which are also very possible)

Agreed with the trait part. An awful lot of traits designed to help condition builds in the first place are better used in direct damage builds.

I’m looking at you “target the maimed”; “target the weak”; “attack of opportunity” etc…

Not only condition damage is backloaded (which is expected) but the max dps achievable by condi builds is still lower than the max dps reached by direct damage build (which is unacceptable).

i would not call it unacceptable, because condition builds are easier to play than direct damage builds and it wouldnt be fair if you can deal the same amount of dps with little effort.
other than that, with the removed condition cap condition builds will be almost as strong as normal damage builds.

Leo G.4501:

NoTrigger.8396:

please….. there are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. we dont need more of them.

no reason to turn this game into clown wars 2.

Am I suppose to take you seriously?

i dont think anyone who wants more gimmicks and gambits has thought about the idea for longer than a few seconds.

Tigaseye.2047:

I live in hope.

It is running slightly less badly than it was a week or so ago, though, so I guess that’s something.

BTW, are some of the people on this thread paid by ANet?

If not, they should be.

they dont work for anet. they just dont understand how optimization works and what it could do for them.

i guess they enjoy playing with 40 fps when they could play at double the frame rate.

Leo G.4501:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Leo G.4501:

One feature of hard core mode would be randomly generated builds (or at least a certain build in a list that is then randomly chosen for you) that it locks you into for the duration of the challenge.

I think part of why people feel the game is too easy is because they always take the path of least resistance. Sometimes you just have to do unorthodox stuff. Yeah it’s not “hard” but it can be fun to make a build work and do what you want it to do.

So you are saying:

• we should be locked into predetermined RNG selected builds ( which would likely not be tailored to the content at hand)

• people find it too easy because they have tailored their build to the content at hand ( path of least resistance)

• its fun to tweak builds to fit the content at hand.
• it’s fun to make the rest of your party tweak their builds to fit around your build ( because you refuse to adapt), and the content at hand? <— This description may fit better.

Am I understanding you correctly?

I guess if you want to get all serious and snippity, you can think of it how you want. People need to remember this is a game. One way to make a game tough is to change the rules. Which would you rather have:

• the devs change the rules of the whole game so you can’t tailor your build to obliterate every encounter.

• the devs introduce challenges which cause you to play within certain criteria.

Think of examples that already exist:
- the games they introduce that give you specific skills to use during it
- costume brawls
- PvP to a limited extent cause you to use a specific amount of gear stats

I’m just taking things to a typical conclusion but rather than put you in a dungeon or map where you have to use a set of unfamiliar skills, you’ll be using your same profession skills and traits.

please….. there are enough gimmicks and gambits in the game already. we dont need more of them.

no reason to turn this game into clown wars 2.

BammBamm.6719:

i higly doubt they will divide the playerbase

it already is. open world zombies and players who want more challenging content.

Rauderi.8706:

So, I have to wonder if a Silverwastes-type map with nothing but Elites (and not Champions) showed up, if people would go for the “challenge”. I suspect not.

-open world
-challenge

pick one.

Rauderi.8706:

Also, challenge exists, but players have proven time and again they don’t actually want “challenge” they want “loot”. Case in point, Aetherpath. Or maybe Aetherpath just needs better loot.

more like anet has proven that they didnt know how to make challenging content and instead of good fights and cool mechanics you have to solve boring and anti fun puzzles.

Tomerant.2701:

There will never be harder game than vanilla wow, Naxx40 is hardest and most time consuming group content ever created in gaming industry.

youtube wildstar datascape bosses.

Mirta.5029:

One of my community members was asking for a game where PVE content is tough and requires communication and coordination. He comes from Wildstar.. That game kind of bored him in the end because all PVE content nerfs itself as people learn it,

thats always the case. everything becomes easier as you learn.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Considering the QQ at the “lack of pve build diversity” ( or something to that effect) I doubt there will be many players supporting further lockdown of what builds can be used.

Nice attempt to force people out of running meta builds though.

players who QQ at the lack of pve build diversity dont understand how this game works and they dont really care anyway.

but there is no way to balance challenging content around builds that dont make any sense.

did the crystal kill a few days ago on thief, you can pretty much go afk lol

sorudo.9054:

NoTrigger.8396:

i think you misunderstood. nobody cares about texture quality. what people care about is the major performance increase from dx 12.

…seriously, so ppl whine about performance problems when they have an outdated computer…..and they want a higher DX version that in no way does anything good for GW2?

oh and if nobody cares about it, am i nobody then?

even with a high end computer gw2 performance is pretty kittenty.

dx 9 and 32 bit. think about it.

and why wouldnt dx12 do anything good for gw2? you realize dx 12 is like a 30%+ performance increase, compared to dx 11, right?

instead of having no idea what people are talking about you could have googled dx 12.

Eponet.4829:

The problem isn’t that it’s impossible to avoid everything significant, it’s that it’s easy to. Make the AI less predictable, and you’ll see more diversity. Berserker wasn’t even the most commonly seen set in the last PVP tournament, people were switching to celestial for the added durability, condition damage, and healing power.

if i wanted pve to be as boring as pvp id simply play pvp.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

NoTrigger.8396:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

there arent tanks in gw2 and thats why a player who wants to roleplay a tank will slow everything down.
and everyone is supporting each other. every single meta build is a support build.

Exactly my point. Why even offer build diversity at this point?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

You’re trying to fix an issue with inefficacy of holy trinity roles in a game that not only does not have them, but does not use a normal aggro table to even begin to support roles.

Guild wars 2 doesnt need tanks. you can be support just as well by being a decent guardian. The other specs are to compensate for builds that lack mobility or deal certain damages.

You CAN, but why? There’s literally no reason to. If you can dodge everything, go glass cannon and do everything exactly the same, why is there any reason to do anything else?

It has nothing to do with holy trinity, so that’s an invalid point. Please reread my comment. It has to do with offering different stats, and builds, and not having them be useful.

You have a game that offers build variability, with no way to support them, or make them viable. Having a better aggro table would be a good start.

In other games there’s a reason to be a tank, a reason to be ranged dps, a reason to etc. Here you get none of that. I understand how it CURRENTLY works, i just would like to see some change.

Now note i never said it SHOULD be required, or any of that, so please look at my point again.

?

But the builds are viable.

You can use whatever the hell you want in terms of gear, and if your build can make the best of it, it works.

Just because it’s viable does not mean it will be the best at doing everything, or even filling a requirement for a specific game mode.

I’m not sure I understand. Of course you arent asking for enforced roles; but are you asking instead for a system rework in which it doesn’t matter (or perhaps matters less re: damage) which stats you build with, in order to make all of the gear equally optimal in every situation?

Not equally optimal either, just MORE so than they are now. There’s such a big gap that now we have the zerker meta, and there’s no reason to go anything else. Yes meta’s form, yes metas are what;s optimal, but metas can change, and exist for a reason.

More along the lines of what tbone said.

nothing will ever be equally optimal, because its impossible.

you shouldnt forget that people ran the content for over 2 years now.
as soon as we see more challenging content 90%+ of the playerbase will stop using berserker gear because it will be too hard for them to beat the content in berserker.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

You CAN, but why? There’s literally no reason to. If you can dodge everything, go glass cannon and do everything exactly the same, why is there any reason to do anything else?

It has nothing to do with holy trinity, so that’s an invalid point. Please reread my comment. It has to do with offering different stats, and builds, and not having them be useful.

You have a game that offers build variability, with no way to support them, or make them viable. Having a better aggro table would be a good start.

In other games there’s a reason to be a tank, a reason to be ranged dps, a reason to etc. Here you get none of that. I understand how it CURRENTLY works, i just would like to see some change.

Now note i never said it SHOULD be required, or any of that, so please look at my point again.

in trinity mmos every tank is the same, every healer is the same, every dps is the same.

and please………. every gear set is viable. viable doesnt mean optimal. and optimal depends on player skill.

and i dont understand why promoting skilled play over passive defense is a bad thing.

tboneking.2531:

I dont think that there should be more unblockable attacks, but I think that there should be many more punishing ones so that you either have to be extremely skilled to survive as a zerker, or you have to bring some healers/ wear tankier armor. The whole concept of a glass cannon gear set is large risk/ large reward, and there is currently no risk in pve.

People join a game advertised around no trinity and active combat system.

Get mad that they can’t play pure tanks and have to dodge.

Makes sense.

See my interpretation of them “eliminating the holy trinity” was that they didnt want certain classes to be locked into certain roles, not that they wanted everyone to run the same gear set. “No holy trinity” simply means that every class has the potential to fill the role of dps/tank/support/healer but no one is locked into anything. I believe the 24 different armor types is evidence of this intended diversity, not the DPS is king meta for pve we have today.

in other games you have tank, healer, dps.

in gw2 your tank is your active defense, your healer is your personal healing skills and water field, whats left is dps and most important unique support from different classes.

guardian focus 5 isnt only a defensive skill or a damage skill, it becomes a support skill as soon as you blast a combo field with it.

thats how the game works. why is it so hard to understand?

edgarallanpwn.8739:

In other games like WoW, there are required classes for fights and dungeons, raids, etc.

No matter how wow plays, ALL roles get a piece of the pie.

Here, everyone goes zerker, because its what’s best, but at least in WoW, you can BE a tank, and that’s a good thing.

In gw2 if you’re a tank, it just “slows the team down”

Condition builds(Like dots builds in WoW), aren’t effective here. Thus is only power zerker builds.

I want to see variation increased as a whole in gw2, so that way other roles are more accepted, and useful.

The way to fix this is…. to fix what makes zerker so viable. And dodging/ boss attacks are part of that.

there arent tanks in gw2 and thats why a player who wants to roleplay a tank will slow everything down.
and everyone is supporting each other. every single meta build is a support build.

i think you misunderstood. nobody cares about texture quality. what people care about is the major performance increase from dx 12.

Tigaseye.2047:

No, I don’t do dungeons, at all, because that is how virtually everyone else wants to do them and I don’t, because I don’t enjoy it.

ok so you dont run any dungeons or fractals but then you talk about “problems” that dont even exist in pve. absolutely makes sense to me.

Halvorn.9831:

I switched from a GTX 460 to a GTX 960 the other week. Man, what a difference for a CPU-bound game.

I think, a lot of the theories in this thread about the used technologies and their effects on performance are… let’s say… not very well founded.

because the gtx 460 is a huge piece of crap compared to the gtx 960. of course you will see a fps increase with a gpu that is double as good and the gtx 460 was most likely the bottle kneck in your system.

i have an i5 4690k and a gtx 970. if i run the game at 4k i will lose 5 fps compared to 1080p.

the thing is, no matter how good your hardware is, you will never be able to run 60fps+ in every single place in this game, because the optimization is trash.

with dx 12 and a 64 bit client, people with a wooden computer could run the game at 60 fps.

Chobiko.9182:

What hurts the game in terms of zerker-meta is that content is either:

A. Not-punishing squishy builds enough
B. Not providing viable alternatives

A. squishy builds are punished more than any other build in this game.
B. every other option is viable.

viable = works
optimal = works best

whats optimal in pve solely depends on player skill.

Chobiko.9182:

TL;DR: ANet needs to look at how to make support builds more viable, and possibly change how armor/weapons affect stats.

every pve meta build is a support build.

Ankushp.7245:

Magnnus.5169:

Dodging is great. The issue is bosses that use one big attack with a huge windup.

Yea faster attacks instead of that one big attack would help.

top kek.

the bugged autoattack forces the player to avoid twice if not 3 times as much. and guess what? i used a filthy zerker build.

Tigaseye.2047:

It is not “skilful” to spend an entire dungeon with your character standing on top of other characters, not moving a muscle (except to dodge into a wall), ressing each other on the spot and meleeing.

The only “skill” involved there is the process of learning where to skip and where to stop and stack.

you are one of those people who get carried through dungeons every single day and you dont even realize it.

Test.8734:

maddoctor.2738:

Test.8734:

rotten.9753:

I see you like passive gameplay where your stats instead of your actions influence the end results. That’s okay, everyone should have an opinion but you should maybe try a different game where it is already happening instead of constantly complaining here without any result.

Are you that concerned about a game in which berserker isn’t king? Don’t worry, you would still have your existing playground. Everything else would require more and better, but if you don’t want to adapt, you can stay at what’s already there.

How is standing still and facetanking content “more and better”?

This again? Did I say anything about “standing still and facetanking content”? Nope.

The arguments against berzerker are clear as day. The answers can’t do better than to rely on statements that don’t exist. Looks pretty obvious what side ArenaNet should listen to.

so much fun.

people who are against berserker dont understand how this game works and it is disgusting when people with inferior game understanding and knowledge talk about problems that dont even exist.

i still believe the sky will fall on my head because i used the wrong leg first in the morning to stand up.

tom cruise approves this thread.

Bryzy.2719:

World views and personal preferences aren’t welcome in map or any other chat according to the rules of conduct.

Over time I’ve seen people discussing God/Allah in chat as though he exists. As an Atheist, I find this offensive, just as a Christian or a Muslim would find it offensive if I talked about his lack of existence. Yet these people don’t get warned. I have previously received angry whispers from some players for talking openly about Atheism in Say chat (which I have since learned from an no longer bring any kind of cultural views into chat).

first of all its 2015 and secondly, dont you have any other problems?
apart from that religion is the reason for unnecessary wars and without it the world would be a better place.
there are more important things in life than believing in something that isnt true and hating each other because of it.

bob.5680:

Ah, but after that first year of “free” (nothing is really ever free) upgrades, we will then have to pay a monthly service charge to run Windows 10 (I believe) on new installations. For this reason, if no other, I plan to avoid Windows 10 like the plague. Even for the systems that I could upgrade it on for free during the first year I plan to pass.

nope.
if you upgrade within the first year to win 10 your license will turn into a win 10 license. you wont have to pay a monthly service charge and you wont have to pay for win 10 even if you reinstall after the first year.

if you dont upgrade within the first year you will need to buy win 10.

Vorender.2187:

That the zerk or die mentality will continue to rule the game, due to design, after HoT releases. It’s really my ONLY concern.

my only concern is that people like you will never understand that there is the option to make your own groups, with your own rules, own gear, own playstyle and thus anet will keep delivering ez mode content.

Iris Ng.9845:

former rT -eh- player

not sure what that means but feel free to send me a pm to enlighten me.

Iris Ng.9845:

I said:

it requires more situation awareness, better reflection damage, better CC overall

• CC: snip

• Better reflection damage: snip

• Situation Awareness: snip

CC: ring of warding, bane signet, command hammer of wisdom, and judgement are among the strongest cc skills in the game. you could argue that ranger can use CC more often or loses less/no dps while doing so, but saying “overall better cc” is just wrong.

reflection damage: im not sure at what ranger build you are looking to do this comparison but when we consider the same party buffs, guardian has the better multipliers.

talking about malrona, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwljZutTpvU
its pretty obvious why guardian didnt come close. the ranger reflect has a bigger radius and i believe thats why all projectiles are reflected.

situation awareness: while its true that dodging on ranger is not that easy, the situational awareness of the guardian doesnt only affect himself, it affects the entire party and lacking awareness, encounter knowledge or simply not paying attention can pretty much lead to a party wipe. thats why “situation awareness” is more important for the guardian class and guardian player than for the ranger.

Iris Ng.9845:

Last but not least, here is a great display of the ranger’s mobility: https://youtu.be/g8J2RkYUSAE

you can do the same part even faster on guardian. flashing blade -> judges intervention -> leap of exploit

Iris Ng.9845:

it requires more situation awareness, better reflection damage, better CC overall

lol

Doggie.3184:

maha.7902:

Doggie.3184:

Meditation Guardian destroys all the things. Extremely Offensive, Extremely Defensive, Extreme Praise the Sun.

and is also not a build used in pve, lets stay on topic here

Sure it is, silly goose.

dont really know what i can say

Shadelang.3012:

hmm. Vuln is a different matter. its not a damaging condition and it doesnt gian anything from investment in condi power. Also it directly increases the damage of power players. do we really want vuln to stack up to a hundred? In any situation? Seems like thats pretty easily abused.

If whats been described is true. Power builds will do double damage during the “break” phases but condi builds wont. This actually makes sense. If the bosses are properly designed. The typically close range power builds are gonna be at more risk during the active phases. Making the new condi builds thatl appear the primary source of damage during that time. As they maintains stacks of conditions that are largely unaffected by the bosses movements. (or in the case of torment and confusion EMPOWERED by them).

Meaning that the active phases will be attrition phases that favor the condition builds.
Although power builds will still be viable of course. It simply wont be the best time to pop there heaviest cooldowns.
And there will be a “break” phase where power builds can effectively smash the boss with impunity for MASSIVE damage. If thats how this is going. Then I think its a good solution to the issues weve been having.

Condition builds become the attrition weapon were used to. Power builds become burst focused as is how there usually treated in most games. (the rolling and combining of cooldowns to deal massive spike damage a condi build isnt capable of kind of like SotW+SotH+RaO+Maul for rangers dealing insanely high cleave crits.)

you overestimate this change. all it does is that other people wont overwrite your conditions, which means condition builds wont be as bad in group content anymore and maybe on par with power builds. but you are not going to stack 50 stacks alone.

and condition builds are alot easier to play in PvE. i doubt they will make it the new super weapon when for example a condition engi can get away with spamming grenades and a power engi needs to do a south korean 300apm rotation to reach max dps.

good.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Wasn’t dungeons something they are backing away from?

Talks about dungeons from 4:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umpR6LhBhW4

I think this quote sums it up: Source (found while researching about the dungeon team for this thread).

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Anet is not currently working on any dungeons content and has no plans to develop dungeons further.

Well that was when LS was “the future” and they were focusing on that. Since that died horrifically, I expected them to go back to more traditional methods. They are doing a traditional boxed expansion, so I figured they would probably have some more traditional content to go with it.

As others have pointed out they did say there was going to be “challenging group content” hopefully we hear more about that soon.

They have mentioned challenging group content, but I was reading it as open world content, since they have shown the Wyvern fight and how you need to use control skills to knock down its new defiance bar.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-wyvern-in-guildwars2-heartofthorns/

I’ve gotten the distinct impression that new dungeons are not going to be a part of Guild Wars 2. Maybe short term ones like the Molten one but not permanent ones (unless they later put them in the fractals).

they said the wyvern fight isnt the challenging group content and they said something like “if you look at the wyvern you can imagine what we are able to do. and the wyvern is just open world”.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

The only fear I have in dungeons is bads joining hard dungeons like Arah, failing miserably and forcing me to kick them, then coming back and kicking me and negating the dungeon that I just 90% soloed as retaliation.

when bads force you to kick them you arent as good as you think you are.

i would make challenging content like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qIVkFINBSQ

and tweak the numbers so tanks arent needed.

healing power and defensive gear is overpowered.

explorer mode never was hardcore and back in the day when we were all noobs and ran around in pvt gear nothing could really hurt us. so how is it a farm fest because of zerker gear?

you realize that not dying ever because you are tanky af is easier to play than squishy berserker?

and i have not seen any hardcore content in gw2 since release.

warbignime.4610:

you might be able to ru n dungeon with other build, but zerker will do it much faster and easier.

this is so much harder to play than berserker right?

OFC berserker will do it faster, because you trade survivability for more damage.

warbignime.4610:

Have a healing skill=\=healer , there are no diffucalt content because this system doesn’t allow it.

and if i tell you now that you are wrong, will you accept it? no you wont.

understanding how gw2 works and whats possible to design encounter wise with the combat system is like 1+1 and getting the right result. its not harder than that. and yet so many people fail understand it… my brain is melting.

warbignime.4610:

Anet tried so hard to make difficult content happen but failed most of the time.

thats the only reason. anet failed and focused too much on ez mode open world stuff.