Guild Wars 2

Right. So today I learned that there’s no counterplay to backstab, and mesmers burst from stealth is easily avoided.

Doesn’t change my opinion that mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be on par with thief’s with just one(or two) trait point.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Come to think of it, where are the 3 illusions coming from for this super-mind wrack combo? Mirror Blade gives 1, but this build is Dom/Illusions/Chaos, it doesn’t have DE to make a dodge clone…

The combo is usually done with 1 clone. And why the build has to be dom/chaos/illu instead of dom/duel/chaos?

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Noss.4105:

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.

I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.

Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.

if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.

Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.

The tell is a giant flying gs coming at you. Much more than other.

That’s why you do it from close range.

denis.9487:

Noss.4105:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Noss.4105:

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.

I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.

Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.

if by instant you meant weapon skills tied to illusions that must survive in order to cause damage then sure. Our personal dps is in the gutter. Hence the crying over pu since it lets you stealth burst taking a target by surprise. The same principals apply to a thief need to always assume someone is watching waiting to get you.

Mirror blade + MW from stealth is pretty much as instant as backstab.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Noss.4105:

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

Thieves have an incomparable ability to kite/dance around an engagement, biding their time to choose when to strike, able to wear a target down (or catch one warn down), because they have so much front loaded instant damage- having to “get into melee” is irrelevant. So yes, perspective is everything.

I know I’m truly in danger when I cross paths with a patient thief.

Mesmers have quite a bit of instant damage aswell.

Mesmer’s stealth shouldn’t be compared to thief. Thieves are probably the squishiest things in the game when you get one pinned down, and they have to be in melee range range to do any meaningful damage. Stealth and evades are really the only thing keeping them breathing.
I hate thieves as much as the next mesmer, but I can still look at things in neutral perspective.

I think PU is overpowered, but my feelings against it aren’t as strong as most people’s. The real beef I have with the trait is that the change to it was cheap, and doesn’t encourage more skillful or interesting play.

messiah.1908:

its so funny

when ppl play condi pu everyone just qq and how uneffective it is
and no one played pu in pvp
no every mesmer (almost) play pu cause the meta players start to play it cause of the huge burst every class got so pu become a must and suddenly it become OK to play power pu

is it more effective – yes and no as you may stay alive longer but your dps get lower the more you abuse stealth.
is it more ennoying – yes
does other build perform better – yes
does pu trait needed – yes and no

People play PU because of the impact it has on your defense and offense. And before you had to invest heavily to get PU, now it’s only 1/3 of your trait points, and as IP is baseline shatter mesmers don’t have to spend points in illusions.

Fay.2357:

Noss.4105:

Recharge your utility skills by a small amount when struck below the threshold. 33% hp, 5s/15% recharge, 15-20s ICD.

This one is sorta odd, it almost incentivizes getting smacked around at low hp. I feel like it just wouldn’t have enough of an effect to be noteworthy. Now and then it would recharge your skills a bit, but it would be impossible to rely on that trigger for anything concrete.

That would possibly give you a chance for comeback when you’re going down. Just a last resort for desperate times.

Blur, Distortion and mirror effects last 33% longer

Refill your endurance at 25%

Creating a clone transfers one damaging condition to that clone. 10s ICD

Recharge your utility skills by a small amount when struck below the threshold. 33% hp, 5s/15% recharge, 15-20s ICD.

Start swinging, Pyro.

Only one I miss is Crippling Dissipation. I played a pretty fun GS/SwSw build that used the cripple for control.

Well, there’s Imagined Burden for cripple…

Fay.2357:

Noss.4105:

How about if it simply recharged your Decoy at 25%/50%?

Then it would be useless unless you not only equipped decoy, but also used it before you hit the threshold. To my knowledge there is no trait in the game that only functions on a single utility skill, and that’s because it would be a terrible design decision.

Yeah, it would require equipping it, making the trait probably a bit too specialized. Most of the times I’ve used decoy before 25% though, so that wouldn’t be a problem for me atleast.

How about if it simply recharged your Decoy at 25%/50%?

Elias.4028:

Mesmers can’t have it all. Something needs to give: high burst, stealth, interrupts, stuns, blinks, pulls/pushes ect. ect. ect.

Thieves have all that too, apart from “pushes”.

It’s not the only way to go. Mesmers have been good roamers since the start of GW2, without the new PU.

And there are definitely more than 4 builds in the game that can roam. You don’t have to be unkillable to do that.

edit: talking about WvW

If you have a focus party, then go for max single target damage with few disengages and focus enemy backliners while flanking. Leave the AoE stuff to classes that do it well.

Pure theorycrafting, but this is something I’ve had in my mind for a long time, but never got myself to try it. Basically just lots of AoE CC and confusion.

I haven’t played Chrono yet, but wouldn’t it be a waste to take those two with DE? I mean, there’s no clone death traits anymore and the usefulness of clone generation is capped by shatter cooldowns.

Thusad.8054:

EremiteAngel.9765:

meepeY.2867:

As a Ghost Thief player reading this Thread

PU Mesmer loses to almost every heavy condition build from a Thief. Ghost Thief is also really good at it because they never see you so they can’t prep invis or a teleport. The only way a PU mesmer can survive is if they teleport away very quickly before I can place my 2nd Needle Trap. However, I’ve seen Shatter mesmers die from just a Steal and the 1st Needle Trap. Whether they’re spamming spells when they panic stealth or something… I dunno.

At the end of the day, if you’re being harassed by a Ghost Thief, drop a reveal trap on the floor and stand on it. Ghost Thief with no stealth is really crippling to us. If you don’t reveal us, we’ll follow you until you die or escape into a tower. Simply Steathing away doesn’t work because of the animation effects you make when you go invis are still visible when you’re invis… Kinda like how you can see and hear Infiltrators Arrow from an invis Thief. Also works with Shadow Shot, you can hear and see that too…

Anyway, I digress. It’s a pretty OP build but it certainly has its counters. The only way to Nerf it is to make certain abilities reveal you, like the Caltrops. You can’t make all conditions reveal you or else every Thief Build gets kittened ’cause you apply poison with your Auto swing chain… Kinda kittens over power builds like d/p or d/d.

The Traps themselves shouldn’t reveal… Trapper runes then become useless.

Right now, our biggest problem is Rangers. That kittenin’ AOE taunt, man. Still gets us when we’re invisible >_>. It’s gotten me killed 8 times. I’m counting.

i suddenly feel a strong need to bring reveal stealth traps…and that feels so wrong…why should i have to bring an external tool to fight??

Because you can. And because you win if you do. So why not?

Well, you still have to kill a dire geared thief that has a shortbow.

They ride a bandwagon.

Agreed.
I came from a couple month break a while ago, and the only thing I find more sickening than the new PU, is all these bandwagon mesmers that get carried by it.

Mesmer has always been pretty niche profession you either hate or love, and takes quite a bit of effort to master. I hope it returns to that state.

IMO the old PU would be perfect fit to current grandmaster traits.

Quadox.7834:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Finer points aside, any class setup that allows you to FullHP -> Death a class without a telegraph is overpowered, plain and simple.

I don’t know why there are paragraphs being written elsewhere defending the above specifically.

,An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight unfair to the recipient and cannot be planned for. It’s just as passive as turret engie and, ironically, is an embellished version of what many mesmers blamed as being unpleasant and unfair to fight.

wins should be the reward of prediction, skillful play and strategy. A class that can simply erase HP bars without at least making its presence known long enough for its opponent to react needs fixing, period.

“An untelegraphed (close-to)instakill is unpleasant to fight”

Mirror blade is pretty kitten telegraphed. The damage is fine, it was actually just as high before patch (traited bounce), when mesmers were considered one of the weakest classes. The things that can be considered broken are Daze>Stun and Stealth (PU). Also, blind shatter.

I think he meant it’s untelegraphed when the burst comes from stealth.

AlphatheWhite.9351
For extra safe stomping, sure, BD would be ok. It’s just the boons are so subpar compared to what you would get from other sources and the alternative traits in Chaos are so good.
And no, I don’t use the GS mastery over MA or PB, I just listed other sources to get might stacks. I’ve experimented with it a bit though.

As far as I remember F4 has always been like that.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Just play Killshot Mesmer, way more fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSDdSuehVZA

Sometimes I wonder if you’re a real mesmer or just a fabulous warrior.

AlphatheWhite.9351
There’s clearly a gap between your experience and ego.

I can’t really explain why mesmers don’t need stability like other classes. We’re just slippery and the emphasis is more on not getting pinned down. Most mesmers also carry blink and decoy.

you get might from GS2, staff AA, Illusions -line, CI, PU, GS mastery trait…
Vigor is good boon, but CoF is on 25s cooldown and you’d have to use it for 5 seconds of vigor.
And if you want to use BD for Chaotic Persistence over PU or CI then go for it.

And Distortion stacks. The clones don’t run anywhere to shatter so it doesn’t matter how they’re placed.

AlphatheWhite.9351:

Noss.4105:

@AlphatheWhite.9351
I’d say you didn’t write anything to change my mind. “You’re wrong because I think 0% of good mesmers agree with you” doesn’t really do it.
I have played PU a little bit after the patch, but I don’t really like to play anything that I think is OP. Mostly I use common sense and compare it to other grandmaster traits.

Also, is there actually people who think Bountiful Disillusionment is incredible trait?

Paging Pyro, Pyro are you there?

Stability on stomps = amazeballs.
3 stacks of 15s might on Mind Wrack is very good.
Vigor is passable, especially for power-shatter builds who don’t have another use for Cry of Frustration, fury is meh (only because of Dueling), regeneration when you use distortion also procs protection from illusionary membrane, so Distortion procs regen and protection, which is all kinds of sweet.

…did you actually read the ability?

Stability is OK, but it’s not that good on mesmer due the nature of the profession.
3x might, ok.. ish.
5s of vigor on CoF. Weak.
You pointed out the fury.
Great, you get 3s of protection while you have distortion. Regen isn’t really something to be excited about with zerker gear.

If you play some kind of bunker mesmer, then i guess it could be ok to take BD for the stability.

@AlphatheWhite.9351
I’d say you didn’t write anything to change my mind. “You’re wrong because I think 0% of good mesmers agree with you” doesn’t really do it.
I have played PU a little bit after the patch, but I don’t really like to play anything that I think is OP. Mostly I use common sense and compare it to other grandmaster traits.

Also, is there actually people who think Bountiful Disillusionment is incredible trait?

The raging outsider is right, PU is disgusting atm. I don’t think there’s any other trait in the game that is as overpowered as PU. Not only does it double your stealth uptime and stack you with boons, it also makes it a lot harder to counterplay the burst.

Revert it back to +1 second and it would still be perfectly viable grandmaster trait. Maybe put a super speed or something on it.

I’m with Ross on that SwSw is mid to close range set. I tend to chill at mid range and go for some AAs/BF when I see fit. Most of the times a zerker mesmer can’t stay in melee range for too long.

½ second block during the animation on iRiposte and Counter Blade to work like necro’s scepter #1, but instead of the blood spill on the target there would be a small butterfly explosion.

One can dream.

If PU was left unchanged it would be pretty much in line with other GM traits. Not counting the ones that shouldn’t even be in the GM slot like BD and Malicious Sorcery.

You guys have some top notch sarcasm.

Two. I got my asura mesmer that was my first character. Then I made a sylvari mesmer some time ago after I got bored of the asura animations.

Nice vid!
I ran double ranged hybrid shatter quite a bit a while ago too. I preferred mostly celestial gear to get a good stat layout and then patched up the lacking stats with jewelry. Got a small video with it on my channel if you’re interested.

I’ve been planning to try MtD with full sinister, but I’ve kinda lost interest in GW2 lately. Maybe the new traits will spice up the game again.

Anyways, keep it up!

I too forgot that you’re not allowed to post screens with names in it. Sorry about that. Here’s the post.

One GS warrior failed to run from me, and after I downed him he whispered “when i run let me run”

I dueled this engineer few times and he couldn’t beat me. After the duels he said:
“i didnt hitted you once”
“nice hacking”
“idiot black”

Hey.
First of all, no one likes the running/capping part of WvW and much less watching someone else do it. People watch PvP videos… well, for the PvP. Cut all the running and guard killing from your vids, no one wants to see it.
I guess I’m right when I say you’re pretty new to WvW/PvP? You could do some sPvP to develop a “short term plan” to fights. Everyone makes mistakes, but your gameplay is pretty messy against real players. I don’t want to be mean, but that’s just how I feel.

As for choosing what fights to put on your video, that’s up to you. Some people put ten minutes of shatter bursts against opponents that eat it, some put cool outnumbered fights, some only duels.
I myself tend to delete fights that are too one sided. I end up deleting pretty much all 1v3 wins unless there’s something else to the fight, since they’re bound to be against a lot worse opponents. I just like good and tough fights, and I’m interested in the opponents gameplay aswell. Most people are attracted to pure pewpew, but I don’t really care.

Oh, the reason why all videos look the same to you is likely because you don’t have much PvP experience. You’re not able to see the different tactics and nuances in others gameplay.

edit: And the audio! You should cut the recorded audio off and put music ontop of the vid when you’re editing. If you really want the ingame sounds, then don’t listen to music while you play.

Heya.
I watched the whole video (on a second try) and I got couple questions.

What’s your criteria for a clip to make it into the video?
What do you think other people enjoy watching about PvP videos?

P.S. Your asura has ugly face.

I’ve always disliked guard stacks, so I’m happy they’ll be gone. I think mesmer is probably the least affected by this change as our defense isn’t about stats as much as it’s about defensive cooldowns.

Found an old post of mine from back before PU was nerfed a bit.

Revealed applying every time you leave stealth and PU split into two traits or tuned down a bit would make stealth perfectly fine IMO.

I thought I was the prophet.

Sneakier.9460:

Pro-tip: Open with a clone like Mirror Blade and not Berseker Phantasm, the burst is slower but you won’t overide your first phantasm with your third.

Example- Mirror Blade clone > Phantasm Zerker clone> duelist clone> zerker clone (you overide clone with zerker)

New illusions always override clones until you have 3 phantasms.

@Kury It seems you’ve reached your skillcap with the condi PU setup. Condi mesmer overall is in my opinion a lot easier to play than most other mesmer builds.

Have you tried Shatter/Lockdown?

I don’t really see high condition damage. You’re already 4 points into illusions, so you could drop 4 from chaos and grab DE and MtD. Also I think the extra bounce over Illusionary Invigoration would be better(edit: without DE and MtD).

Heya.
The devs are probably reading the mesmer forums now a bit more than usual, so I though it would be good idea to strike with a Quality of Life wishlist.

What comes into my mind is:

-Different colored dots for clones and phantasms on the “clone bar” next to the shatter skills.

-Mantras recharging passively out of combat. One thing I find really annoying is when you get out of fight with one charge remaining and you have to either waste that last charge(and wait for full CD) or swap the mantra out and back to recharge it.

-Range indicator and possibly a timer for Portal Exeunt.

@Bubi Meeeh, I’m just not sold on using third of your traitpoints for CI if you have Dueling as another option. The whole Chaos -line looks so underwhelming until CI/PU.

You’re right about Domi being most important. I somehow “forgot” it as I think post-HoT power lockdown builds as Domination + 2 other traitlines.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Noss.4105:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Post Crono, I’d be dropping Dueling for Crono.

You think CI is worth all the good stuff you lose from dueling? It’s a great trait, but it seems to me like Dueling would be the most important traitline for the Phantrupt build. There’s not a single bad trait for your weapon sets and the minors are amazing.

But then again I’ve never played your build, so what do I know.

Well, to be honest I’m not married to CI. So yes, it’s quite possible Chaos will go instead of dueling. CI which contains BI is really the only reason to take this line, even though there’s some other tasty treats in there. To me it’s really a question of how devastating do I want a single interrupt to be? Do I need it to be that devastating? I don’t know yet.

Yeah, CI+BI is really strong. But I feel the master traits are pretty bad for power builds and the minors are pretty meh most of the times, where dueling just has awesome written all over it.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Post Crono, I’d be dropping Dueling for Crono.

You think CI is worth all the good stuff you lose from dueling? It’s a great trait, but it seems to me like Dueling would be the most important traitline for the Phantrupt build. There’s not a single bad trait for your weapon sets and the minors are amazing.

But then again I’ve never played your build, so what do I know.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I know this is hell of an old bump, but I figured instead of starting a new thread I could start editing and updating this one.

I’d like to incorporate lockdown videos from other builds/players (like you Ross) so if you guys have any of yer best stuff to submit, please do!

Not really my best stuff, but I made a video running interrupt PU build, and a bit of the oldschool “Mind Crush” in WvW. I wanted to use Mind Crush more, but it doesn’t fit too well into the “roaming meta”.
Like on my other vids, I tried to put tough or somewhat interesting clips instead of easy fights and I’m not afraid to show my mistakes.

-40% condi duration food, Melandru runes and Time Marches On. :P
Panic Strike? What’s that?

I’d like to know how Lost Time works. Without ICD or other limitations the synergy with Danger Time is way too strong. Basically permanent Slow and +30% crit with GS.

Does Lost Time have ICD?

I’m looking forward to hybrid shatter in HoT. The condi buffs to mesmer are looking pretty good atm.
For me it’s gonna be MtD with GS + whatever. Depending on celestial nerf, I’ll use mostly cele or sinister.

Windwalker.7421:

Sorry but I disagree on BD and RI. They may not be everyone’s cup of tea, but to call them useless or garbage is not correct.

1) BD not only got the Stab, you may have noticed that the Boons are now AoE! This can synergize well with Boon-sharing builds based on Shattering. Your F2 Shatter when shared would give 6 stacks of Might to anyone within a 240 radius. Although I agree from a personal standpoint Retal is a little underwhelming on MW, in a group scenario this boon is not joke as Engineers & Rangers will gladly tell you. ;-) Same goes for Fury on F3. Really the only one I really dislike is the Boon on F4. For such a long CD to give such a lame Boon is very underwhelming. This should be ~3s of Protection or ~5s of Aegis.

Yes, I notice the boons are AoE. They’re still weak and don’t make much sense. We have good access to AoE interrupts and CI is in the same tier, so I don’t really see the point on taking this trait over it, unless you’re going only for the stability.

Windwalker.7421:

2) RI works surprisingly well if you have IP, which we all will! This is not a bad trait at all if you’re looking to bunker yourself up. The only reason this trait hasn’t seen any play, IMHO, is because it requires IP and is GM itself, so you have to give up DE to get it. That of course is silly. Now that you get IP for free, and can get RI while also getting a reasonably strong GM trait like Shattered Conditions or Ill. Insp. for boon sharing, this trait will actually kinda rock. This trait will be almost primarily responsible for creating a true bunker Mesmer! A Chaos/Insp./XXX Mesmer will be almost unkillable 1v1 and maybe even 2v1 or worse odds, every shatter insta-heals and removes a Condition.

It’s a bug that IP basically doubles the heal amount. I’m pretty sure they’ll fix it now that IP becomes baseline. If not, then I guess this’ll be good trait for bunker mesmer.